micro 1017 is over party

[Datisi]

VOTE: rhyme and reason

get an avatar

[Datisi]

get an avatar

Make me.

-S

if you don't, i'll end up mixing up your posts with t3's, which will probably make me scumread you, which will end up getting you yeeted :(

[Datisi]

i was gonna meme and vote for myself, but then tris's vote came up in pedits so i decided against it because y-1 on page one scary. then i thought how mena is probably one of the only people insane enough to actually slam the hammer down on page one and he's already on wagon and it would be funny if i meme-voted myself so what's the worst that could happen

and *then* i remembered scum!bugspray explicitly loves quickhammering and they're playing so yeah not gonna do that

[Datisi]

why do you wish for my death, menalque?

[Datisi]

i'm listening

[Datisi]

you pinky promised

pedit: thank you skitter i can now stop refreshing the game every 2 minutes

what about my reaction did you find townie?

[Datisi]

skitter's explanation of her townpings on me gives me some paranoia that i am being white knighted / pocketed here

but i will not act upon it yet as it is way too early and my skitter reads are usually ass-backwards

why do you find her town? @retti obviously

[Datisi]

why is everyone pocketing me smfh

VOTE: pob long

retti, do you have any experience / knowledge of skitter?

pedit: townie pings on retti

[Datisi]

Because you're a shining beacon of towniness, obviously.

is this genuine or sarcastic? i'm assuming sarcastic but

pedit: interesting
why pob long town?

[Datisi]

I think that scum are unlikely to have a potion that does nothing, and even if they do have one, I doubt that pob would be asking about it here when the scum haven't decided who's getting it yet.

have you considered that he is... lying about having a potion that does nothing?

re massclaim: scum has ~some sorta magical information~ and i highly doubt schadd would make a game breakable by massclaim on day 1 so that's a no from me dawg

re bugspray: i have Opinions but i will not express them until they return to this thread

[Datisi]

have you considered that he is... lying about having a potion that does nothing?

I don't think he plays it that way in the opening stages of the game. Way he opened pinged but the way he claimed it doesn't come from scum, I don't think

why did you answer a question that was not aimed at you?

and also what since 44 to now made you wanna change your vote?

[Datisi]

re massclaim: scum has ~some sorta magical information~ and i highly doubt schadd would make a game breakable by massclaim on day 1 so that's a no from me dawg

Scum have changing roles since they get new potions every night. I feel like scum are the least interested in a mass claim since they may not be able to prove their claim down the line.

uhh

they have what?

pedit: @rhyme, as far as i am aware, no, why?

[Datisi]

ye, bc they said they pinky swore i won't die on y-1 and then they threatened to hammer me

pedit: originally it felt like some sorta rolefish to me, that's why i voted him
when s_s gave his answer on why he thought pob was town, he outright assumed pob does have a null-potion so that's why i asked

do you wanna answer my 21?

[Datisi]

also hmm

also bc I hunger for blood?

what are you hmming at

also yes i get that but i was hoping to know if you're hungering for my blood for a specific Serious reason or Meme reason

[Datisi]

have you considered that he is... lying about having a potion that does nothing?

I don't see the reason to do that. If they're scum who doesn't have a nothing-potion, then how would they know they even exist? It would look weird to be the only one claiming one of those.

-Reason

/shrug

again, a potential reason i saw was some form of rolefishing. and like (1) they could know via ~mysterious scum info~ (2) why would that look weird? (actually maybe don't answer this but like i don't think i would yeet someone just bc they claim a null-potion) (3) the og claim was made in a meme-y was that they could take back later so

though typing this out i do get the feeling i'm stretching a bit here so

VOTE: toogeloo

[Datisi]

VOTE: datisi I scum read you

i'm listening

[Datisi]

mena, is there a reason you keep avoiding me?

[Datisi]

The question was general enough that I didn't expect you'd take offense to my butting in. Was it that important that you get the answer from Reason? Our reasoning (no pun intended) is similar enough.

I moved back to Toog because I decided pob was towny and had a Mild Gut Ping from early on,

but after pondering for a moment I reconsidered

, and decided I liked voting tʃɹɪs more.

i don't know. i don't know what i'm looking for until i see it. that's why i don't like someone cutting my q's to someone short like that bc maybe the og response would've been something to inspire me

can you talk about the bolded part?

[Datisi]

oh no

VOTE: rhyme and reason

[Datisi]

The question was general enough that I didn't expect you'd take offense to my butting in. Was it that important that you get the answer from Reason? Our reasoning (no pun intended) is similar enough.

I moved back to Toog because I decided pob was towny and had a Mild Gut Ping from early on,

but after pondering for a moment I reconsidered

, and decided I liked voting tʃɹɪs more.

i don't know. i don't know what i'm looking for until i see it. that's why i don't like someone cutting my q's to someone short like that bc maybe the og response would've been something to inspire me

can you talk about the bolded part?

I...looked back at his posts, thought about them, decided my vote was meh and that I should find someone else, and my eye fell on tris after looking at other people briefly?

I'm not sure what you're looking for here?

idk. i saw there was only one post from either of them (i think and atp i'm too lazy to go back and check) so i wanted to see if it was something about that post, and if not, what was it or like what was your thought process there because i did not get it

[Datisi]

mena i Do Not Like those posts

[Datisi]

mena i Do Not Like those posts

y

~Rhyme

bc i have no idea what your read on me is and i Dislike that you're going out of your way to not provide it. and like i know that you know that my main method of reading you is reading how you're playing around my slot, and when your only play around it so far has been (1) meme(?) shitpush (2) otherwise ignoring i'm not gonna like it?

and also the meme scumclaims are giving me a bad vibe even though i know they're prob not as ai as i would like to think but it's not helping

[Datisi]

yeah the tone is probably off in the meme scumclaims, I'm trying to force it a bit but I was feeling ~vibey~ earlier and excited and now I'm feeling kinda sad but for non-game-related-reasons

idk what my read is on you yet, I kind of want to give you space to Do Stuff and then make my mind up from there. I felt slightly pinged by your concern around me wanting your head right at the start when (1) I don't think it was ever gonna happen and (2) I would expect you to know that I'm never seriously trying to get someone killed on P1 unless it's for policy reasons

~Rhyme

i am sorry to hear that :/ i believe you wouldn't lie about this regardless of your alignment so i'm just gonna drop that part bc i don't think it's useful then

(1) i have seen hammers happen quick so eh (also my whole thing is "don't put people at y-1 quickly bc you never know" and i'm kinda surprised you don't know that?) (2.1) maybe you wouldn't be trying to legit get someone yeeted on pg1 but fmpov there could've been some sorta read there that i would very much like to hear (2.2) sorting you while you're stuck in the meme-shittunnel against me is basically impossible so i would've liked to to get out of it as soon as possible

[Datisi]

actually hold on, in that game i modded where you were scum and there was that teacher wagon really early, didn't you tell your team that if the wagon hit y-1 that someone should yolohammer it? wdym you didn't think it was gonna happen here?

[Datisi]

thanks, it's just a thing, hopefully it'll pass

and I mean, I've seen hammers happen quick too, but my general rule of thumb there is "just lim the hammerer tomorrow"

sorry brain feels kind of melty so idk if this next point is gonna come out well but: yes, if I were scum, I'd be down to try and get a hammer on page 1 for the banter and because town don't policy lim lolhammers like they should. but just as much, I'm very okay with rapid L-1s when I'm town and part of that is pushing people even if it's in a jokey way. there was really no read beyond it was either you or skitter I was going to do that with and it seemed more fun with you because I have a different thing in mind re:skitt

I also don't think I've been tunnelling you at all really?

~Rhyme

and my general rule of thumb is "don't let scum do pro-scum plays that they might even get away with tomorrow"

it's not a "real" tunnel per se, it's the meme tunnel. like i get you (most likely) weren't trying to actually get me killed on pg1 but you were still constantly repeating that i need to die and refusing to engage me otherwise so i think it's fair to call it a tunnel

and like again, i'm kiiiinda concerned that you're pinged by my reaction of being concerned there when you know that i am vary of quick early yeets (i imagine that you know that at least) and you know exactly how concerned town!me gets with wagons/scumreads on me (considering my notes pt vents from c9++)

[Datisi]

also for the record in almost any other universe i'd probably be voting bugs here but i kinda wanna try to read their response to me first (bc wanna get my soulread-on-bugs title back) and also this seems like a fun avenue to explore in the meantime

ok i need to sleep someone pls yell at me if i post again

[Datisi]

and like... even as a meme tunnel, it was uh... two posts? and then a brush off when asked why, but I think even in terms of memes that's hardly a tunnel

I'm less pinged now than I think I was by you wanting to know the reason for me pushing you in 21,

like I think I quite like what you're saying at this point

. I'd also uh, actually forgotten that you were wary of quick yeets bc it's been a while since we actually played together and if anything my hunger for swift yeetething has only strengthened in our time apart

i mean it was two posts + brush off but it was across multiple pages (i think idk my memory is not the best rn and i cbf to go back) so like. mini tunnel. let me have this one goddammit it was annoying.

i am interested in the bolded part

[Datisi]

but essentially the way you're engaging here is reminiscent of reading your posts in C9++ where I got the sense that you were much more focused on trying to sort than on how you were being perceived, which I think is +town for you although I admit to being kinda out of date

ah yeah. that game where i wasn't focused on how i was being perceived. the same game where i got into multiple arguments with players in the ic slot over their read on me. yeah that one.

[Datisi]

okay bugspray is scum we're flipping them today

VOTE: bugspray

i'm getting strong flashbacks to both the first micro blitz and mbos 9, in both of which bugs was scum and i caught them fairly early on. bugs is clearly avoiding questions aimed at them about their "scumread" on me. god knows what their reasoning for voting rhyme and reason (haha) is, which i'm thinking that town!bugs would provide, especially considering their other scumread (me) started the push there. considering mine and skitt's paranoia there, that vote feels very opportunistic. and also their lolrandom posts that add nothing (201, 221) were abundant in those games.

also, what i was saying earlier about having Opinions - in a semi-recent scumgame of mine (micro 988: 09:12), where bugs was town, they similarly voted me on page 1 and claimed to have some sorta scumread on me. this is why i asked for them to elaborate on their vote; i didn't feel like my play was similar to that game's intro at all, but maybe bugs did see some brainworm moonlogic connection that i feel like i would be able to recognize if it was coming from town. instead, what is their response? there is none.

i think it's bc bugs knows that town!me is (1) able to get townread fairly easily and (2) has very strong precedent to sniffing out scum!bugs quickly so they're trying to discredit me while trying to go under the radar bc they know i would see their elaboration / responses as fake.

also also, i did a cursory skim through bugs's iso in the above game, and they had votes that they were explaining and they were advancing the game forward and all that townie stuff, which lead to them being obvtown fairly early on. they're not doing any of that here.

pedit: hi skitt

[Datisi]

I missed you being obvtown, but then again maybe you always were and there was just a period where I stopped being able to see it

~Rhyme

*paranoia of being pocketed intensifies*

also like i know you laughed my semi-serious-semi-sarcastic post off in 181 but i am not Satisfied with that response. i know seeing a game from a mod perspective is different than seeing it from a player perspective, but i'm not still sure how you arrived at "datisi didn't care about how he was being percieved" so if you could elaborate on that once you and s_s chat, that would be grand

[Datisi]

Heya dats. Was thinking of mbos 9 too

I feel like they're ignoring questions asked of them and opting to not provide content, and dont really have reasons for the things they're doing, and iirc mbos9 correctly this is characteristic of their scumgame

yeah pretty much, "no reasons for the things they're doing" is like textbook scum bugspray. i think in the micro blitz it was a similar situation. ok i went back to check, they did provide some reasoning with their votes/actions, but it was really shallow, and basically night and day to the towngame i linked earlier. also what correctly snapped me into scumreading bugs in that game was them making fluff / filler posts that, when asked about, said they served no purpose, and the fact that they're doing them again here is making me more confident in this vote

@skitter - interesting, i was getting a different feeling. the timing of the vote when you and i were pressuring there didn't ring to me as s/s, and i was thinking if bugs flipped red that i was ready to locktown rar. what do you see as partnery?

[Datisi]

also posts from t3 are making me scumread him, but i recently ran a game where he was town and where i was scumreading him even though i had sent him a green role pm so uhh i'm gonna pause on this one

@t3, you originally voted skitt bc "fake helpful" since you didn't think bugs's vote on me was real. now that they've clarified that it

is

real, does that change your read on skitt in any way?

Felt like that was an attempt to join in on the suspicion on bugspray but the thought process here does not feel believable or organic.

how did you get here? like, t3 tried to add to suspicion on bugs, but as soon as someone said that they disagree with t3, he just... agrees and calls that person townie?

[Datisi]

This isnt like a real read on me right?

there's been something that's pinged me as towny and I like your take on poblong and retti that I kinda vibe with but it's mostly the default townread thing

where would you wanna look so far in terms of scum? and what's pinged you about bugs?

~Rhyme

This is still a bizarre question to me given:
- i was voting bugs slready
- was sheeped by them on bugs
- they had a readslist like two posts prior where bugs was their biggest scumread

not sure i see it? like, asking you about why you're voting bugs (even though he himself is doing the same) doesn't really ring suspicious to me since i've had it happen a lot of times that my conclusion about something is the same as someone else's, but i'm curious *how* did they get to that conclusion (unless you're referring to something else here and i'm stupid)

i would agree that "where do you wanna look for scum" is a kinda weirdly phrased question, but i can see town!mena assuming that "outside of bugs" is implied there so /shrug. still think bugs doesn't jump on their partner in that kinda flow of the thread, since iirc they're not really heavy on actual bussing, esp not without distancing

[Datisi]

My "up to page 8" read list..

Rhyme and Reason
pob long
Datisi

I think my top 3 should not be executed today.

could you talk about your read on me? i'm kinda surprised considering your only post aimed towards me was kinda negative? and could you elaborate on your read on rar (beyond 185)?

[Datisi]

Felt like that was an attempt to join in on the suspicion on bugspray but the thought process here does not feel believable or organic.

First, the only suspicious (I might have forgot something) on bugspray was skitter, who I scumread for suspecting bugspray. Second, when Tog disagreed with me I agreed with him and my scumread on bugspray vanished.

i was/am also scumreading bugs though i'm not sure if my post about that came before or after

what do you think about my reasoning for scumreading them? also do you like. even *have* any reads.

[Datisi]

"hey, i know reading my read on you is your preferred way of reading my slot, and i know that i'm acting suspicious around it and that my read on you seems half-assed and designed to placate/pocket you rather than being a result of an actual thought process, but can you like, take my word for it?"

(the answer is no, no i cannot )

[Datisi]

maybe the phrasing of "unconcerned with how you were seen" is poorly put, but the idea that I was trying to get across was that you didn't seem like you cared how people read you /beyond how it affected your ability to prosecute your own reads or to what extent it helped you to get a read on them/

okay uhh i'm not sure i vibe with this part. like, i'm pretty sure i made multiple posts in my notes that were like "oh god oh fuck if cakez flips red, everyone is gonna think i'm his partner oh shit" so again i'm not quite getting how you're coming to this conclusion about my levels of concern for my own life in that game?

i feel like i am struggling to respond to the rest. it's obviously true that i'm trying to form my own reads here (because that's what we're here for, no) but "the way i am perceived" is always kinda my first priority, mostly bc it's (imho) town!me's strongest asset. so like, i feel like your last paragraph is ~wrong~ regardless of your alignment - i kinda know this is all in my head, so it's much more clear to me than to the rest of the table, and that maybe i don't necessarily always give off that vibe of self-preservation, but also i feel like you should know better and i'm worried this is a walkback bc you see i'm not going down that easy and adslfdgjkj

[Datisi]

I townread skitter. I initially scumread her because of the bugspray RVS thing but once that cleared up she swems towny by meta. I recently played an open with her and she scumread hectic by vibes but wasn't able to put it at anything stronger than that. She was town. That's what she's doing here.

As for the hydra their posting is throwing me off but I definitely didn't like the "trust me" post.

From what Datisi is saying about bugsprays naked voting it seems like it isn't AI for bugspray. I haven't seen any of their towngames so I'm not sure on bugspray.

As for the hydra their posting is throwing me off but I definitely didn't like the "trust me" post

okay how is it throwing you off and why didn't you like the trust me post?

~Rhyme

I'm honestly not sure, your tone feels a little bit weird to me.

The trust me post I didn't like for reasons Datisi outlined but your response made sense so I think you're town.

i don't really like/get this progression. in the first post, the explanation about the hydra seems to be completely negative, but in the next post, he's saying how he actually thinks they're town because he liked mena's explanation? like it seems like he's changed his mind on RaR between those few posts but there's kinda no indication that he was ~thinking~ about their alignment

also t3, how did you get the "from what datisi's saying, it looks like naked voting isn't ai for bugspray"? like, i was saying how them voting but providing none/poor/shallow reasoning is *very* ai...

[Datisi]

also the above post reminds me - is 239 like "i agree with your bugspray read" or "i think you're town for it" or a comical third option, because later on in 244 you said you think it's not ai for bugs so i am kinda in general confused what your stances are here

[Datisi]

i think i'm sorta putting skitter as ~paranoid but most likely town~ and leaving her there for an amount of time until i decide otherwise. there is a small voice in the back of my head that skitt's approach was slightly off, mostly due to the fact that she admits to it in 252 as it kinda gives me the vibe of "yeah, it was off" scum admitting their own play is off. *however* (1) i did not notice any scum-agenda-driving posts from skitter that i remember seeing once when she was scum (though this is obviously with a grain of salt bc i do not trust myself at all to consistently read scum!skitt correctly) and her reads/reasnings outside of the above have all felt Fine and Reasonable. (2) and also i think in every town game we've had so far, i've consistently had the uneasy-gut "what if this is scum!skitter" feeling, and at this point i'm wondering if that feeling should be taken as a sign that skitt is town, considering i did not have it in most (if not all, don't remember atm) of her scumgames

[Datisi]

Felt like that was an attempt to join in on the suspicion on bugspray but the thought process here does not feel believable or organic.

how did you get here? like, t3 tried to add to suspicion on bugs, but as soon as someone said that they disagree with t3, he just... agrees and calls that person townie?

That...was what I had a problem with? Like, the moment Toogeloo contradicted him he just turned around and agreed with him instead, but the problem is the thought process for the original read didn't feel especially believable. Town!t3 has no problem with naked voting and underexplained reads so him voting someone for exhibiting that behavior doesn't really add up. Turning around and changing his mind while calling toog town felt a bit more like a maneuver to cover his ass on a read that wasn't really going to be defensible.


But this was with the consideration that bugspray might just be LHF last night, and I'm feeling less confident in that conclusion already, sooo....

/shrug, to me it felt like you were suspicious of t3 because he was trying to pile on the suspicion on bugspray, but deciding against it at the first sign of a struggle defeats the whole point of "piling on suspicion" - so i didn't get how you came to that conclusion when to me it seemed like, if t3 had really been trying to do that, he was doing it in the most counterproductive way possible. but i think your explanation makes sense - i don't have much (or any, really) exp with t3 so if that's what you were focused on, i get it now

also i was about to ask "if you townread me and like my reasoning and think bugs could be scum, why aren't you voting there" so thanks for answering that in advance i guess? i'm feeling decently confident in this vote (and i know the main lolhammerer probably wouldn't lolhammer themselves) so i wouldn't mind a y-1 right now but i don't care enough to actually argue about it

[Datisi]

i will now pretend to make a good wallpost

zzz has bugspray returned yet? no? okay

@pob long

do you have any townreads?

Your response immediately after

could you link what you're referring to here?

toogeloo's contributions so far feel Fine. like nothing insanely townie but no red flags either i think. however, i feel like they're more likely town than not bc i was recently following along a normal that noraa was modding (and by following along, i mean i was skimming the game and looking at flips) and i saw toog won was scum in a f3. and in the postgame, they commented how they have a high scum winrate (which i did look at, it's true). and their play here feels decently relaxed, plus they don't seem to really be interested in forcing themselves into people's townreads, or taking control of the game, which i imagine ~skilled~ scum would be doing here?

Now everyone has similar reads >.>

i wanted to comment on this - i'm not sure this is true? (i'm gonna take the liberty of assuming this is meant in a sense of "everyone is fine with consensus, therefore the consensus is wrong.) like, sure, up to now a decent amount of people expressed a scumread on bugs, but what i find interesting is that that wagon has completely stagnated despite multiple people expressing that they're fine with it? which uh, kinda reminds me of some recent games, where there was a wagon building / consensus read on scum, and most people seemed ~fine~ with it, while the wagon was dead and scum was hoping that the town finds a new shiny distraction.

like, i know the issue is that bugspray has not yet addressed the wagon on them and the game is lowkey stuck here, but i don't think that's necessarily a cause for concern yet?

@t3

could you address my 256 and 257?

i think i've talked about datisi already;

you've only mentioned liking my 33, and like surely that's not the whole basis for "feeling pretty good about datisi being town"? >_>

Some words (esp at the beginning of sentences) auto-capitalize on my phone

fun fact: i turned off auto-capitalization on my phone just so i could do my ~all lowercase aesthetic~ easier when i'm phoneposting

usually when skitter argues with someone, i either get a feeling of "something is Wrong with this argument, there is a Wolf here somewhere" or "no, this is Fine", and the skitt/tris argument feels like it's boring me more than anything else

i'm getting a bad gut ping from tris because she was also playing in that 09:12 game i linked earlier, and i'm kinda... weirded out? that the mentions of that meta boil down to "ok" and "i think that's true". like idunno, idk if tris is a fan of meta or not, but i expected a bit stronger reaction to it? like the two games really felt widely different to me and maybe i'm disappointed that someone else is not noticing it as much as i am but it feels weird

hOweVeR i'm also getting townie pings because in my head idk if scum!tris attacks town!skitter here? like my only experience with tris is with town!her in that game, but i don't remember her being like, an overwhelming presence. and i imagine most people are less of a presence when they're scum than town. so like idk if this is the path scum!tris takes here? especially since, her reasons for attacking skitt are kinda weak? like i agree they're unconvincing, but they're unconvincing to the point where i'm not sure scum!tris outs them bc what is she imagining she is accomplishing here

now i know i might be (probably am) talking out of my ass here so if someone in this game who has more exp with tris could enlighten me on whether this is a Thing scum!tris would Do, that would be lovely

fuck i need more townreads

can mena come back and townspew pls

[Datisi]

i wanted to comment on this - i'm not sure this is true? (i'm gonna take the liberty of assuming this is meant in a sense of "everyone is fine with consensus, therefore the consensus is wrong.) like, sure, up to now a decent amount of people expressed a scumread on bugs, but what i find interesting is that that wagon has completely stagnated despite multiple people expressing that they're fine with it? which uh, kinda reminds me of some recent games, where there was a wagon building / consensus read on scum, and most people seemed ~fine~ with it, while the wagon was dead and scum was hoping that the town finds a new shiny distraction.

I meant this more in tje sense of 'now the game is boring because nothing os gonna happen and there's nothing to talk abt'
The reads are consensus-y but i actually dont mind it *too* much, i'm p sure bugs is scum and i think my townreads are p solid, so we just have to go through everyone else

after you quoted this, i noticed that i opened the quotation marks there but i didn't close them and now i cannot unsee it and it's gonna bug me for the remainder of

the game

my life

and alright, gotcha. i feel like i've seen you make the "consensus reads bad" arguments before (tho i can't immediately remember where) so i kinda thought that what what you were saying there. strangely i kinda enjoy not being in a spamfest for once?

hOweVeR i'm also getting townie pings because in my head idk if scum!tris attacks town!skitter here?

I'm kinda thinking this too, esp since she was on my scumteam in the TM game i basically won ...

But idk something feels off to me abt this interaction, it almost feels like she wants to find me scum and is therefore looking for ways she can
It doesnt feel like a sincere argument on her end, its not something she actually believes but rather something she wants to argue i think

yeah like idk. i definitely agree that her arguments don't really feel genuine/sincere and somehow off putting. but they're like that to the point where i think that scum!tris would be aware that they're coming across like that? and coupled with the fact that she is trying to attack *skitter* with them? just like what is the upside here?

i guess tris could be a scum reverse-psychology too-scummy-to-be-scum mastermind (which is why i asked for if anyone has that kind of meta on her) but i don't really believe it? and like as i'm typing this i'm perfectly aware that the last time i was like "wow this person doesn't look good but i do not ~believe~ that they're scum" they ended up being scum but /shrug. my heart does not believe.

[Datisi]

I think dats is going to be annoying this game, but kind of understandably given that what I want to do with him as town here is identical to what I'd be trying to do as scum

~Rhyme

i think a post like this is not necessarily scum!indicative for you, but like, it's not helping. (also, "annyoing", really?) what is it that you ~want to do with me~ here, and also uhh, any reason you're still kinda avoidant of my earlier questioning?

yo dats can u confirm that bugs just completely checking the fuck out of the game is +scum specifically rather than it being something that just happens regardless of alignment when they're under pressure?

~Rhyme

negative. while i do recall a game where scum!bugs just like, fucked off from (miccro 960), there were a few games i modded with town!bugspray where they got in, made a few posts, then stopped posting / repped out. to my memory though, that happened in the coalition setup, where they joined in "trying to break the setup" then repped out when they didn't like the setup or something? while to my memory their posting there was different (they weren't trying to look towny/solvy, were doing their thing about setup cracking), i cannot claim that "bugs checking out of game = bugs scum".

pedit: ok nvm i see you have responded, will read that in a bit

[Datisi]

maybe the phrasing of "unconcerned with how you were seen" is poorly put, but the idea that I was trying to get across was that you didn't seem like you cared how people read you /beyond how it affected your ability to prosecute your own reads or to what extent it helped you to get a read on them/

okay uhh i'm not sure i vibe with this part. like, i'm pretty sure i made multiple posts in my notes that were like "oh god oh fuck if cakez flips red, everyone is gonna think i'm his partner oh shit" so again i'm not quite getting how you're coming to this conclusion about my levels of concern for my own life in that game?

i feel like i am struggling to respond to the rest. it's obviously true that i'm trying to form my own reads here (because that's what we're here for, no) but "the way i am perceived" is always kinda my first priority, mostly bc it's (imho) town!me's strongest asset. so like, i feel like your last paragraph is ~wrong~ regardless of your alignment - i kinda know this is all in my head, so it's much more clear to me than to the rest of the table, and that maybe i don't necessarily always give off that vibe of self-preservation, but also i feel like you should know better and i'm worried this is a walkback bc you see i'm not going down that easy and adslfdgjkj

first para: I'm talking more about how you presented in thread than how you presented in ur notes. I imagine that your like, standard paranoia and neuroticism is probably flowing there (still think u should just do that in main thread btw, as it makes you very town when you do, but I imagine it makes playing scum harder so)

second para: I don't really know what you're getting at? like not sure if we're talking past each other a bit. I think that when you're scum your concern with perceptions of you is more directly related to who is a threat to you/trying to understand how the gamestate is so you can manipulate it while PRETENDING to use it to generate reads. when you're town I think it's more about figuring out whether reads on you are in good faith or are pocket attempts, and that this goes more in conjunction with what's happening here. like eh, if we flip a load of town then yes, I probably need to reconsider if you're faking all the paranoia and this is a Datisi Big Brain(tm) play to pocket me but for now I'm kinda just happy to call you town lol

~Rhyme

oh my god self-meta discussion that probably nobody else is even gonna read i'm lowkey regretting starting this

i don't intentionally sandbag my games >_> my notes are often things that i don't actually want out in the main thread - either because i think it would make me more easily pocketable / playable around, because i think people would find that level of waffle scummy, or simply because i think others would find it annoying and it would not have sufficient gain to offset the drawback of other people disliking me (this is not directly related to this game but i kinda take offense when people think i intentionally do things like that for the sake of future oppposite-alignment games)

i mean, we may be talking past each other here, but like, i'm saying that i'm always concerned about the way i look, sometimes it doesn't have anything to do with reading the other person's read on me, it has to do with pure "ah shit, my only useful asset when town is being townread, if i can't do that what the fuck do i have to offer, i need to be transparently town here" survivalism/paranoia. (obviously i wanna be townread as scum too, for different reasons lol) though, having typed this out, i can kinda see why you'd think i do the "i will read their read on me" with everyone considering i do it constantly with you. but like, i do not always do that, that's what i was getting at earlier - that's what i meant when i said you're wrong regardless of your alignment, i was thinking whether any-alignment!mena even knows that and whether your "actually nvm datisi is town" Makes Sense with that in mind

this feels like a confusing word salad and at this point i kinda wanna just drop it bc i'm not sure if anything useful is gonna come from this discussion anymore but it is what it is

[Datisi]

can we please not try to spiral here? I sometimes feel like you're idk, very reactive to my choice of words before I get the chance to expand -- when I say annoying I don't mean like ~you as a person are annoying~ I mean I feel like this game is headed in the direction where I have a correct TR on you and you're going to be horrendously paranoid of me all game because of it (again, I guess if we're both still alive later then I'd need to double check but it's enough for now) which is just.. slightly frustrating bc I can't really tell what it's based on besides somewhat nebulous ~there's something off about mena~ feelings

~Rhyme

i'm not trying to spiral... i guessed the "annoying" didn't mean "personally-annoying". i got a slight feeling that was AtE-ish trying to call my actions/paranoia-read on you annoying so that you make me drop it and back off. like, idk i'm sorry? i really wish i could just get to a townread on you (assuming you're town here) and feel like the game is going great and we're gonna roflstomp it but i just don't think i can right now?

[Datisi]

so I think my recommendation for winning the game is (assuming bugs reds) to go:

T3 -> toogs -> skitt if she's still alive in 3p

~Rhyme

any reason skitt is here other than "if not dead she is scum"? like, her play around bugs doesn't really remind me of bussing that i've seen from her

though having said that, i'm realizing i'm thinking of that micro game that i modded where skitter bussed, when maybe i should be thinking of that micro game i played in where skitter was an actual partner to bugspray, but also uhh this feels like an exercise for a later day so whatever

[Datisi]

them*

also i'm not really interested in seriously entertaining a skitt/bugs team until at least one of you flips red, and considerng we're 99.999% flipping them before you i don't think that is necessary right now for the sake of ~sorting you~ either

like sure i guess there's a chance that this is skitt/bugs and i, having personally played in mbos9, am the only person here who could possibly notice the bullshit you will give in your explanation about the differences, but you nightkill me tonight and ride to victory on the bus, but like... it's too early in the morning for these levels of tinfoil.

[Datisi]

ah ok

well then even moreso, pretty sure we're the only two here who have first-hand experience with *both* of those games

i am looking at the "indeed" in 374 and i will pretend i didn't just have a vision of skitter typing "ok i will murderize datisi tonight" into the scum pt

[Datisi]

VOTE: bugspray

this keeps looking like a fake hammer to me, but by my count it's real so

i just woke up from a nap and i'm currently on a walk before the dark phoneposting so i will try to reply to things before lock

[Datisi]

My thoughts are thst if this flips green it’s NAI for tris (would maybe be +town but I don’t think tris’ posts show that she gets why it would be +town) and if it’s red then it’s slightly +scum for tris because I think it’s a lot easier to drop a lolhammer when you’re scum if you know it reds and harder to do it if it greens

~Rhyme

i agree with this being +scum for tris if bugspray reds - it's lowkey reminding me of that kerset hammer from heaven in c9++? i mean arguably i was wrong on them being *aligned* scum in that game but they were still scum and it gives of a Vibe and i stand behind hammering a lost cause of a partner being a common scum play so lol idk

maybe vaguely +town for tris if bugs greens, but because tris knows she's not looking too great here anyway and whatnot. yes i'm still going with tstbs maybe i'll change my mind tomorrow we will see

[Datisi]

other than liking a claim (which i believe would be useful regardless of bugs's alignment, since potions don't flip and knowing what scum!bugs made up could clue us into the setup), there was another ~thing~ that i was hoping to see before end of day that i did not see yet(?) which is kinda annoying but eh, not too important, i'll talk abt it tomorrow

also the fact that bugs kinda isn't here screaming for my (or someone else's) head makes me think they're more likely to flip red and are going into antispew mode

also also i *think* skitt was just messing with me earlier but in the event that bugs reds and my corpse is found tomorrow... someone do look at skitt pls k thanks

[Datisi]

i almost bumped into someone i should watch where i'm going lol

[Datisi]

second para: I... did not know that you didn't do that with everyone and thought you did? or at least used it as a significant part of your read on others too. I still think that I'm right that your paranoia/concerns about how you're being read looks? different? when you're town vs scum tho. like again, I felt like even if you were worried about being misread in c9++ it was more to do with being worried about your reads leading to you being misread etc rather than being like "oh shit, are they seeing I'm scum, am I being scummy" which I think is more how I would expect you worrying about that to look as scum (not like, super obviously, but I think those lines would be underlying it).

no, i did not / do not do that with everyone. like, my last town game before c9++, (2207 i think? the one where i was a doc and ate it n1) i was doing the "read someone's read on me" thing, but i was only doing it with players whom i am decently familiar with and have a basis of how they would be reading me there (e.g. vp, luca). so like no, i do not do that with everyone, has to be a specific playstyle that i think i can read that way

like obviously the concerns look ~different~ as scum/town but that's because i feel like *everything* i do looks different as scum/town - but like, in c9++, there definitely was some raw survivalism that you've got under quotes there and i feel like it's present in most/all my towngames

[Datisi]

basically, you seemed very concerned with getting your reads /right/ in c9++ and like you weren't really fussed about who you butted heads with or if they SR you for it if you were SRing them. again, I'm thinking particularly of you being combative with TLDNE, whereas I think you as scum would probably have been more anxious about being in conflict with them because they would have been a very hard push and I think pretending you thought they were scummy would have been difficult if you knew all their posts were good faith and that their push on cakez was good faith. like, I have this too -- I can be very confidently wrong on someone when I'm town and don't know they're town, but if I'm scum and I know all their posts are genuine it can become difficult for me to convincingly pretend I think they're scum

yeah, because i don't think that me butting heads with people is what gets me scumread... like unless delaing with Ultimate Omgusers, i am decently confident in my ability as town to get people to townread me by Pure Screaming even if that pure screaming includes scumreading them

idk if you're right about me not engaging like that with lilith as scum (i was not scum that game so no idea, and i haven't seen scumtisi in like good three months by now) but the idea that i was going into that interaction completely unconcerned about my image is like. wrong lol

[Datisi]

I am like, vaguely paranoid of you too, I'm just a lot better at constraining that in early days than I used to be. trust me, if we end up in 5p lylo and you're still there and so am I, I will be a paranoid mess again who's desperately re-checking that Ali blitz game + JK9++ where you previously fooled me. full disclosure I'm already a bit worried that your insistence on being worried about me is you being performative because you know that I like it when you're paranoid of me (or like, I consider it a feature of your towngame) and that you're sticking with it beyond where I think you would actually be paranoid to. as in, if you were town you would no longer be as paranoid as you claim to be and would be okay calling me town by now.

while i was lying in bed about to pass out for an afternoon nap earlier, i remembered what was feeling off about you this game that i was not able to put my finger on eaelier - like last time we were town/town was i think miccro 960 (because fucking 2169/jk9++ ugh) where you similarly like. got to a townread on me early, called me obvtown, but it looked like you screaming to "never yeet datisi" and "voting datisi is a scumclaim" and whatnot, and compared to that game, this feels, uh, different?

like, *does* my paranoia/concern feel fake and/or performative to you? or is this just like pure "lol idk datisi could be scum bc i was fooled before haha" thing because i feel like i've been nothing but transparent here

(also not necessarily related but i thought you were scumreading me in jk9++)

[Datisi]

the world's shittiest vigilante checking in. can confirm i took the charisma potion last night that does That. my plan was to try to force scummier people to disagree with me and take damage from my insane charisma. and if they don't want to disagree with me, then yeet them or something. i'm not sure if this is gonna work the way i imagined it but i was using the potion anyway so here we are

also i legit didn't know that the damage doesn't apply to me and i was worried i'd have to be careful about what i'm saying, but luckily i don't have to be, only the rest of you have to

Still should be abusable, Datisi is pretty town iirc.

is this a mena sheep or do you have your own reasons? if the latter, could you please share? also what's the status on massclaim?

it was a very sloppy attempt to get mafia to kill town!skitter until i realised that was not actually what i wanted to do. i changed back to keeping you as a suspect because i wanted to narrow the amount of people that scum would want to kill because of my potion that let me see who harmed a person last night which i used on datisi and found that no one did

yeah, i caught the post that i figured was some sorta soft from you, that's why i said you're +scum if bugs reds but ~maybe vaguely +town~ if bugs greens - i thought bugs was gonna be red, and in the event they wouldn't, i tried to make it look like i don't really strongly think you're town

without thinking much, i'm inclined to think that skitter is scum,

that actually makes me think you're town

What is this I don't even

i would like your thoughts on what made skitt town there

tris, was the potion you used the one that makes you drunk or was it another? For clarification.

VOTE: T3

could you Talk about your t3 vote here

hmm. i have a far fetched theory

any good in outing this?

i am currently debating with myself whether to put toog's vote on me as +town because i don't think scum's entrance into the day would be "oh, we take damage if we disagree with datisi? i shall vote him!!" or whether as nai because it's obviously a joke and i'm dumb

@

toog

, i assume your vote wasn't a serious vote (or rather, a vote born from a scumread) so i would like to know where you stand today as opposed to your last reads yesterday?

okay, i will go back to being annoying now:

@mena

, any response to my posts at eod1? i was especially interested in seeing what your response to 430 would be (and i swear it's not only because i wanna hear you confirm that you were actually town on me in jk9++) ((but like obviously i would like you to respond to all of them))

shitty vca - usually i would say that the ~general waffling, approval, no real disagreement~ around the bugs wagon implies it's likely scum was off it, but considering day 1 was so short in time, i don't think it's necessarily that way (since i feel it's also extremely plausible that town was genuinely feeling uncomfortable with ending the day so fast) so like i am still shit at vca, nothing to see here.

[Datisi]

i was gonna not vote t3 yet because y-1 two pages into day 2, but then i remembered it's 5 to yeet and not 4 so
VOTE: t3
y-2

i thought you weren't scumreading bugs? why did you vote them? also like, 376 is lowkey infuriating bc it feels like extreme handwaving and i know i'm probably not getting an answer one way or the other and agh

it would probably not bother me as much if t3 was actually properly contributing but here we are

also i think i would like to hear your response to 272

also also let's not end the day as quickly as we did day 1, there are a few things that i want to see during today.

[Datisi]

In fact i think you might be the only person i dont have a reason to townread at all

what reasons do you have to townread t3?

[Datisi]

yeah that's fine. when i started typing the post earlier, it kinda dawned on me just how much a pain today is gonna be for me because oh boy arguing with others is my favourite thing

i'm around but also watching the game so not really

while we wait, what do you think of my idea to force The Scumms to take damage from me? and also like what s_s thinks, i'm surprised he didn't comment properly on that yet

[Datisi]

i am realizing that saying that i'm around while the match is ongoing was a mistake lmao i keep looking up and getting interrupted every 20 seconds lmao

re mena's skitt take: i am not sure i like, fully Get your point abt the pr stuff? like i don't really find a problem with what skitter said there since it makes sense to me that if tris had some sorta watcher shot and she already thought bugs was scum that she would hammer

and by extension it made sense to me that skitt's read there would flip once tris came out as saying that

also i feel like i have seen it before somewhere that town!skitt like, didn't get some pr softs that i found obvious, and then figured them out later on and had a similar rxn - i can't remember where but i can try to find it later

re retti vote/push - eeeh. i didn't really *get it* but i have had it happen more than once that skitt's actions and reads didn't necessarily make sense to me and she was town. like in a vacuum it's not Good but saying that i'm feeling a scum agenda behind it would be a lie

i will say that i don't like the t3 read but i was waiting for t3 to properly respond to me to see if i start ~feeling~ it but he is not doing that and at some point i will start yelling at him again

[Datisi]

re the paranoia post - yeah i don't think i'm comfortable doing the poe town thing when my biggest scumread just flipped green yesterday

i don't think you're scummy but like i said it yesterday, last time we were t/t and you found me obvtown you started yelling how we never flip datisi and whatever it was, while here you said you found me obvtown but whenever you're talking abt me you make sure to add the "oh ye if we flip a lot of town i need to recheck datisi in lylo" and like, i don't like saying "no u" but it's giving me an evil vibe of being kept open as a push in lylo?

also your posts entering the day today were mentioning me only as a townread and had me in no poe's, while now you're saying how you think town!me should be town on you already so? i'm not sure what to take away from that?

[Datisi]

so S_S suggested, and I agree, that making trjis disagree with you today might be a good move because we can essentially treat her as conf!town for the rest of the day if she does, and treat it as a scum claim if she refuses to

i like the idea of having a conftown, but she dies at the end of the day like that right? which like, she seems decently town to me today/for eod1, like the pr play makes sense to me - i guess this ties back into your post abt skitt since you mentioned you didn't get why tris would do what she did from a pr perspective?

idk i wasn't planning on voting tris anyway today and i'm still mulling over (1) what are the odds scum!tris claims a watcher(?) shot like that and (2) whether a conftown that dies going into the night is worth it

[Datisi]

this feels like yelling into the void i am starting to not like my charisma potion anymore

[Datisi]

i thought you weren't scumreading bugs? why did you vote them?

also before i forget

@t3 can you Not ignore this pls

[Datisi]

@t3 stop fucking ignoring me why did you vote bugspray yesterday i will fuckin yeet your scummy ass

@pob you still owe me a q from yesterday i think, abt who are your townreads

tho at this point scumreads would be appreciated as well

@toog interesting. i was gonna ask why you were locktowning them so. i am kinda puzzled why you're willingly taking damage from me tho.

also the soccer match is over i am not happy and also not sober, so i will go for a walcc or smt to cool off, be back at some point in the next 3-5 business days

[Datisi]

okay so i am back and sobered up but i'm not feeling The Best so i'll prob be around for half an hour to an hour to reply to stuff and for if anyone wants to chat, then go to bed. so if you'd like some datisi in your life, now is the time

this feels like yelling into the void i am starting to not like my charisma potion anymore

I think your charisma potion is just fine. This is me disagreeing with you, and you should be loving it.

I believe it works in tandem with Rhyme and Reason. I'm hard locking R&R because I have the exact same potion, though I haven't used mine yet to deal 1 damage to a player. I think in tandem with your potion, we can execute players we don't want around.

okay, i can believe this. since my charisma potion is kind of weak on its own (since i literally cannot damage anyone without their consent), i think some amount of town-sided direct damage dealers make sense. i think picking two yeets, one for the classic vote-out and one for the charisma+damage potion is the right call here?

i know you haven't posted since my last post, but repeating it for visibility - what was the thought process behind volunteering to take damage from the charisma?

[Datisi]

[snip]
Er, is this directed at me? My read on skitter didn't have anything to do with the tris posts (obviously), I thought she was town for other reasons. I'll get into it later.

tris, was the potion you used the one that makes you drunk or was it another? For clarification.

VOTE: T3

could you Talk about your t3 vote here

Was a first-impulse vote to move to the person I thought was least towny after I thought tris might be town for mechanical stuff. I feel like his opinions have been too weathervaney, mostly the stuff he's saying is just catching up and repeating things other people have said, I know it was after my vote but I feel like 489 is a good example of this, like he's just repeating the reads tris and skitter gave on each other to blend in? I'm not getting a feeling of a ~genuine thought process~ anywhere from him. He had the one "emulating my scumgame post" which I liked but it's not impossible to fake and I don't think I can shield him over that when he's lacking in solving.

sorry, the first one was meant for tris. i think i originally wrote something like "i would also like to know why skitt is town", but then i read a post of yours that made me think you're no longer wondering why tris thinks that, so i edited my own post, but in that editing it became confusing. my bad.

yeah no i agree, i was just wondering bc i skimmed your iso, and the last you had talked about t3 was in a positive light. did you say you have exp with him? ok ctrl+f'ing "t3" in your iso, you did. how does this game compare to the t3 you were talking about in 254?

Toog voting Datisi as an entrance was actually off to me - even as a joke, I feel like town would be more cautious about taking damage? Whereas scum would have less reason to fear taking more damage if they're the ones doing it.

interestingly enough, i felt the opposite way. i was kinda guessing myself that my charisma wouldn't be the only damage dealer in town (i mean i *guess* it is possible because schadd game, in which case thanks schadd i love it), so i wouldn't be surprised if scum would be able to guess that (or straight out have info on that). and it seems... unnecessary to try to get damage on yourself, especially second time now? makes you a prime vig target, especially if the town wants to limit the amount of people who take damage.

Okay so with these claims I feel like I should just out this now: last night I used a healing potion on skitter that gives 1 HP to the target, and I think that's probably why there was no NK?

also i'm really inclined to also believe this. a flash did go through my brain how we could be living in a Cursed World of skitter/retti, but i don't really think it's that likely, especially since skitter currently has *checks notes* a grand total of 2 votes?

[Datisi]

- scum no kills
- at the first sign of a wagon forming on one of them, their partner jumps in and locks themself in a potion claim
- ???
- profit

yeah i don't think it makes sense nvm

[Datisi]

The ignoring questions is scuy because it just is.

this is just like, increasing my bloodlust for t3 bc it reminds me of a scumgame where i got called out / caught because i was calling other people scummy for things i was blatantly doing

like, there's something very funny about the fact i had to repeat my q like 3 times to get an answer like this one

also this feels made up today (maybe made up when he was typing the post) rather than being a reason for voting bugs yesterday considering he did not mention bugs's ignoring questions anywhere yesterday

[Datisi]

@pob you still owe me a q from yesterday i think, abt who are your townreads

tho at this point scumreads would be appreciated as well

what was the thought process behind volunteering to take damage from the charisma?

guys i know i am insanely charismatic and all that but answering my questions will not kill you i promise

[Datisi]

skitt, talk to me, am i tunnelled on t3? do you think that that part you found townie about him offsets this play?

also i just realized i wanna talk about toog's claim / play but then it's gonna be obvious if someone after me talks about it that they're disagreeing with me and i am legitimately getting annoyed about this dumb potion now

[Datisi]

i think it would be funny if i made a post where i called every single person town, scum, and null
and nobody can tell me that my crappy sense of humour is bad, nvm this is amazing

anyway

it is making it difficult, i have a few things that i wanna say and i feel like i work the best when i can share those ideas and get a reality check on them (bc lord knows they need it sometimes) but i cannot and asfgdhjk

i did think of asking someone something, then responding with my opinion on it after they respond, but then *after that* nobody can chime in to disagree - which is maybe fine for minor stuff but it feels very annoying for things like "deciding the day's yeet" and "deciding the strategy around the claimed damage potions"

hmm
do you think it would be worth giving toog a night to use his damage potion on the person of the town's choosing?

[Datisi]

If I'm honest, I really dislike the charisma potion mechanic, I think it's making me feel stressed akin to when I'm scum in that it means having to actually think about my posts rather than just rush stuff off

~Rhyme

Spoiler: CW: FAKE BLOOD

[Datisi]

I'm just wary of causing more deaths than expexted since we dont know exactly hiw many people are to die tonight (with dats' thing) so it might just be a loss if we dont hit scum

fwiw, i'm pretty sure schadd is supposed to let me know when someone is taking damage from the charisma potion. i'm just unsure if he's gonna do it in public or just tell me privately - i'm in the middle of asking, will update when i get a response (i have been alerted of zero damage taking so far if that wans't obvious)

[Datisi]

for fuck's sake i started typing another post with My Thoughts only to realize i cannot hit submit

@toog - is there a reason you keep ignoring me at this point?

@mena - what's got you feeling directionless? you had a full blown readslist last time, no?

i'm gonna go back to lurking now i guess, making posts is giving me anxiety

[Datisi]

What if I just hammer VOTE: bugspray

VOTE: toog
POE.

they'rethesamepicture.jpg

[Datisi]

i'm trying to think back to the last times mena and i were t/t and i recall how in why gun?? we had a proper argument for a few pages after which we started townreading each other and i'm wondering if this potion was actually a plain curse rather than any sorta +town mechanic

but since you're probably not gonna be arguing with me about this today either way i'm just gonna vent a bit

what the fuck am i doing as scum here? you clearly showed me earlier that you're townreading me and lowkey told scum!me what to do, and i keep deciding to fake paranoia for ??? reasons? when it's pretty well known that faking paranoia around other slots is like, one of the weakest parts of my scumgame? especially when you know i hate arguing w people that have some sorta read rates on me and also can be a very strog presence in game. and like - you're just not townie enough for me to locktown you here? like i said it before i don't think you're scummy, which i don't. and saying that "i don't townread you" i false. but the same way, saying that i don't have certain Concerns about you, regarding your play around me and now the general ~low energy~ would simply be a lie?

(also feel better soon, sorry if you don't feel like playing - i know it's a bit dumb writing it out after the above para but uhh yeah you know what i mean)

[Datisi]

what makes you think so, skitt? :upside_down_emoji:

and i'm annoyed because i saw i have this potion and i was like "oh fuck that's cool, we can force people to take damage and if they don't want to we will yeet them and it's gonna be great" and instead of being a pseudo-vigilante, i'm here now, afraid to even say what i think on some of the most basic shit in the game because lol whoops, if someone does the thing they're supposed to do in a mafia game and talks about it, there goes damage!!!

okay i feel a bit better having gotten that out, thanks

[Datisi]

yeah, schadd's original response to me made me think it's gonna be public, but since it took a bit, i wasn't sure.

[Datisi]

i once again backspaced my thoughts and this game is still giving me a headache and i will at least keep complaining about it until i figure out when/how i wanna talk, hopefully without murdering everyone. i at least want the day to not end before i figure out what to do here

You know, Datisi could just tell anyone to disagree with them on purpose, and anyone doesn't has to take a point of damage anyways.

considering you're already taking damage from me anyway, i at least feel comfortable discussing this - don't think this is true? like, i can't force anyone into anything. if i were to say "toog, disagree with me", and then you don't, pretty sure that itself doesn't count as disagreement, i don't think that would damage you.

tris, what do you wanna do today?

[Datisi]

@toog, i think people ignoring me is still an option, and even if there actually was a way to force people to take damage from me... i'm not gonna do that only out of my own free will.

tris, what do you wanna do today?

@tris

[Datisi]

schadd

if dats says an opinion, and someone later says something thay disagrees with said opinion without really addressing dats/continuing that convo, does that count?
Like dats says: i think x is town
Later someone else incidentally says: i think x is scum

that generally wouldn't incur damage, no

so i've been staring at this game for the last ~10 minutes, trying to figure out if i have anything to say that would be useful on its own, and not sure i do. considering the above quote, and that the day is slow and i'm feeling a weird mixture of frustrated + bored in this game, i will probably try to form an ~ignorable~ dump post when i get some sleep, if others are ok with that.

@tris, your thoughts on t3/toog? link if i'm dumb and not seeing them.

[Datisi]

i accidentally hit ctrl+r instead of ctrl+z and i lost my post and i want to die

anyway. ramblings that i hope won't kill anyone. another warning to be careful and ignore me if needed.

i think pob long is probably town. his pissed-off-ness at being told to take damage rang like a genuine townie being annoyed rather than scum being afraid of dying. also, while the gulp potion itself, and the fact that someone else has the same one, i'm not taking as ai (lord knows that after 960 and 2157, i'm never again assuming anything about a schadd game), the way it was claimed also sounded like a townie claim?

i will admit that i'm liking toog's recent posting less. like, idunno, asking about potion ingredients feels a bit filler-y (as i highly doubt schadd makes a game where scum would get caught by something like that), but i'm more off-put by 711. it feels like shade that's kind of obviously not really going anywhere.

however, this is not really enough to offset my previous thoughts on them, that scum doesn't want to take damage themselves, especially if they're being scumread and don't know how many damage-dealers there are in town, as that feels like a really dangerous game to be playing. unless scum has a way to heal themselves i guess, but then that's using their one potion to heal themselves, as opposed to doing literally anything else that they could be doing had they not volunteered to take damage for no reason, so like idk.

my other point is what i kind of attempted to convey in 623. t3 feels like scum to me and that doesn't look like a bus vote. likewise, i highly doubt pob/t3 is a thing. (or t3/retti for that matter, but t3's vote on pob especially feels ehhh.) like, i think t3 is probably scum, and if he is, his partner is somewhere in {tris, skitter, RaR} which kinda scares me, because (1) i've had at least some reason to townlean all those people and (2) my preferred methods of reading skitter or RaR are currently unapplicable. (i cannot freely enter a shouting match with RaR, and i can't sheep RaR on skitter as their read on her doesn't feel that certain).

also some mech thoughts i had, all assuming we don't yeet toog today and they're town - if we hit red today, i think toog should finish someone, but if we hit green, i think it could be a good idea to holster. yeet today and it's 7 alive with both scum alive, and if they are both able to use a potion to kill someone, that would bring the number of living people to 5, and a misvig there would be parity. however, given the above paragraph, if t3 reds that's kinda my pool for viging, and since i don't want people to be taking more damage today than absolutely necessary, i think i'd kinda want tris vigged there? but also i'm not that certain on it because reasons that i can't properly discuss due to this dumbfucking potion so yeet, probably ignore this para if you're not toog who is actually able to talk to me.

i guess tl;dr is - in my ideal world, we yeet t3, if he's red it's gonna be a funky ride that may or may not be solvable with mech (i don't feel like trying to work it our rn, if it's even possible), if he's green i don't even know, maybe it is toog and i'm being an idiot.

[Datisi]

If we flip T3, then given current info, the only other person I could theoretically poke is tris, so keep that in mind.

i am aware. i'm currently conflicted between "if t3 reds, beep tris to start narrowing the poe" and "maybe even holster in that scenario" but i don't think i can decide the best call without a massclaim and that feels like something we should not do, so.

[Datisi]

i probably can't decide the best call *with* massclaim let's be honest my mechplay is utter garbage who am i kidding

retti's healing potion on skitt feels like the most likely explanation, i don't think scum no-kills for the lulz?

pedit: @skit, something about scum not volunteering to take damage and possibility of using my damage as a vig (and that making mech sense) for me. i do agree they don't look ~the best~ otherwise but i'm still leaning town there i guess. maybe i'm tunnelled on t3 lol

[Datisi]

there is not a factional nightkill.

Hmm...

oh this too
i didn't realize this was a thing
than i'm *incredibly* doubtful that all fo the damage claims are town ...

i'm not sure i get how a reminder that there's no factional nightkill makes it more likely to you that there's scum within the damage claims, as it seems to me like scum would be even less likely to trueclaim they damage then, but also maybe don't answer this

[Datisi]

And honestly, it makes roles like the charisma potion seem to benefit scum more than town.

yes but i think (?) dats is town on play + it's super easy for him to 'accidentally' write posts in a way for people to disagree with + it looks like the pressure of writing his posts in a ~neutral~ way is getting to him, when if he were scum that wouldnt' be happening

re toog - don't think so, considering it's impossible to force someone to take damage (unless like, the whole town agrees to yeet them if they don't)

re skit - why is there a "(?)" there?

[Datisi]

because i'm not 100% confident you're town, maybe like 90%
like the (?) is the difference between a locktown read and a strong town read

did anything change since 145? i know it was a while ago, but

[Datisi]

is there anything i can do abt that paranoia while having *waves hands* charisma

pedit: @skit, bc i remembered you said you thought i was really obviously town, and i thought you've gotten to know how to read me by now, so that (?) looked weird to me

[Datisi]

why is that weird? do i like, need to again revive the discussion from c9++ abt my concerns of other people's reads on me or

also like i'm not 100% on you being town and that ~hesitation~ in your read on me (when you've given no prior signs that i've done something to make you do that) struck me as a bit out of the blue

[Datisi]

why is that weird? do i like, need to again revive the discussion from c9++ abt my concerns of other people's reads on me or

also like i'm not 100% on you being town and that ~hesitation~ in your read on me (when you've given no prior signs that i've done something to make you do that) struck me as a bit out of the blue

i guess in my mind it doesn't really feel like a really big or significant difference rn and idk your concern feels a bit overblown to me

i see a significant difference between "this person is obviously town" and "they're town? i think? i dunno?" and the last thing i want and/or have pateince for this game is for people to start paranoiaing deepwolftisi so

[Datisi]

/shrug, i could be. never stopped me from asking about it.

pedit: this is re 790

[Datisi]

i'm thinking if there are words that can express how annoyed 796 makes me that both won't (1) accidentally bait anyone into disagreeing with me and (2) break rules about politeness and i don't think there are, so instead i will invite people to talk to me if they wish and leave it at that.

[Datisi]

there was a part of me that was thinking about Actually hammering toog while they were on y-1 because i'm starting to hate this day. i am proud of myself for resisting the temptation and deciding to wait for people to catch up.

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Datisi

Diving into the deep end here.

First and foremost, without a factional night kill, I suspect that the charisma potion is scum aligned.

Secondly, I went through their ISO, and it just seems to me they were moving along with the flavor of the moment, and felt like not trying to ruffle feathers. Nothing was really town-telling to me, and I could easily see the posts coming as either alignment. There were even a few examples of Titus' "Rule of Three," in there.

I think the above post feels a bit fake too.

(1) the information about the game says "no factional nightkill" but we don't know whether scum has damage potions or how many of them (that they may or may not publically claim). so the idea that "no factional nightkill, therefore public damage mechanic must be scum aligned" is stupid.

(2) i hope you're supposed to be talking about day 1 here, because if you're trying to make a scumcase that i'm "not trying to ruffle feathers" on day 2 i'm gonna laugh. assuming you are talking about day 1, i wanna hear you elaborate on this, because i feel like i spent the whole day one trying to sort people as best as i could.

the "rule of three" is the associate-hunting rule that, if scum mentions three people, one of them is a partner, right? do i even have to explain why it's either bad-faith or just playin bad to be trying to apply that rule to scumread an unflipped person?

also uh. i find it kind of curious that this post was only made after both t3 and skitter presented the idea that i could be scum scum or said they found something about me weird

[Datisi]

eeeh, not sure we should be looking at someone's sk!meta to figure out if they're groupscum or not.

why is t3 being willing to die / take damage that townie to you? he wasn't in an exactly good position before, and people often don't wanna yeet someone who's asking for it.

[Datisi]

bah sorry, i got annoyed replying to toog, who i don't have to be careful around, i just fired that off without thinking.

[Datisi]

yeah, i do not strongarm games on my own. doubly not when i blundered a read on day one, and especially not with a potion like this, where i'm quite literally dependent on the rest of the town's cooperation if i want it to actually be a +town mechanic. why would i be trying to get a scumread to disagree with me, when just one damage does not do the job, and all it does is opens more opportunities for the rest of the players to trip on it?

[Datisi]

i'm not too interested in the who-knew-what mech talk, since i imagine scum would be careful in a game like this to not slip something they shouldn't know, or would potentially fake a "townslip", but maybe it's me being used to seeing townslips as nai and seeing people actively making fun of them.

skitt's reaction to toog's push on me, coupled with the fact that like right after it, they were willing to yeet toog, is making me think it might have supposed to been a "ok, i see people aren't interested in [controversial read], i can vote [compromise]"

however i am uh, increasingly getting worried about rar not being here, so:

oh where did the rhymers and reasoners go?

[Datisi]

the vote on me is most likely not going through here, right? and scum!them would probably be able to see that. so once time starts running shorter, they can say that they actually want to vote me, but nobody else in the town does, they can settle for voting elsewhere, etc. opens an easier transition to a different vote (i.e. me) the next day

having typed this out, the immediate "i can vote pob long" might be a *bit* too on the nose here, but they said they were scumreading him previously, so i don't think it's unlikely they're attempting consistency with it

[Datisi]

skitter, do you still feel the townread on r&r you felt on day one? or like, is it at least comparable?

[Datisi]

bah

i was hoping you'd tell me that it was at least somewhat decently strong so that i could pretend that i'm not worrying about r&r and dying inside, sheep you on it, admit that obviously nobody is interested in going for t3, and just flip toog and go from there

i'm gonna go back to having a headache about this game then probably do the above anyway idk we'll see

[Datisi]

i let out an ugly cry-laughing sound and my sleeping housemates are not happy

[Datisi]

i have been attempting to read you and interact w you the whole day? and you go from "yeah here's a poe we flip here" to "game hard" because of ??? what exactly? like *what* is making you paranoid of me here?

[Datisi]

"what is making you paranoid of me here?" is a question.

pedit: ok cool but you were off and your read of me was off and i'm going to call it out. because the menalque this game is simply not acting like the menalque that i've seen in the past who strong townread me and was willing to yell about it. also like idk, the fuck do i gain from doing that as scum, when you were giving me clear hints that you townread me? i double down, so that... i can call back to it later on? because scumtisi is surely missing misyeets here?? and like you say your paranoia of me has been growing today but you've consistently been avoiding even attempting to interact with me and avoiding conversations i've been trying to have w you to try to sort you properly while chucking it down to "ohh is difficult to think about what i'm saying" and you come at the 11th hour with "ackchually dats could be scum"? like do you understand how fucking frustrating this is???

you don't have to respond to this obviously because i'm not sure you could, even if you were actually willing to but my god i h a t e this g a m e

[Datisi]

and before you ask, that took a while to get out because i'm tired and my s key keeps dying every second press and my god i am t i r e d

[Datisi]

skitt, i was responding to 917/918

agh

sorry if i went a bit far i am just
sick of this fucking potion at this point

[Datisi]

This game is not fun. This was my first micro game, and if this is the norm, probably my last as well.

no pls, micro games are great. they don't all have a "you can't talk to Datisi" potion

-Reason

this is what not being able to talk to datisi does to a game

anyway. obviously not feeling like this day was complete in a sense, but it is what it is. i'm assuming tomorrow people won't be able to disagree with my posts from today (since they were able to disagree with the one from yesterday) - so see y'all then, hopefully

[Datisi]

Subject: mystery box of silver 12 PBP MOD (over n out)

Spoiler:

town:

• clonk; Harmography; true sight; gulp; drink more potions
  
• Harmography; Harmography; Pain; Pain
  
• Pain, Pain
  
• Travelling Potion
  
• Gulp
  
• Pain
  
• no potions

town: 1-7 in this order; mafia 8 9

tris 1
pob long 5
bugspray 3
T3 7
Rhyme and Reason 2
skitter30 4
Datisi 8
Toogeloo 6
Retti 9

i'd like to congratulate town for their victory in mystery box of silver 12

i'm sorry schadd did you say something

[Datisi]

i thought town!me would definitely ask about the (?) which is why i did it
and then you called me out for that and i was like "well fuck"

[Datisi]

the charisma was pretty demoralizing for me too, like, my breakdowns weren't Completely Fake, i was genuinely getting frustrated at not being able to talk to people normally.

also uhh, if we had entered 5way, town needed to yeet just one of us to win. we did not have any damage potions left. so if one of us fell in final 5, either (1) the game turns nightless and the remaining scum needs 2 misyeets to win (difficult to impossible, considering the clears) or (2) town starts repeatedly no-yeeting, and then wins after 3 cycles of no deaths, because that is defined as an automatic town win for some reason

[Datisi]

couldn't have done it without you!

[Datisi]

Thanks for modding, schadd_!

not sure about the balance of this one, and the charisma potion was just kinda demoralizing, but i like the concept and i had fun so

pedit: you were not townie!! you never do the "uhm dats is kinda townie but i need to recheck him in lylo " shit when you actually townread me!!