Open 834: Trust Fall - Game Over

[MafMen]

hey guys im a bit rusty what does it mean when your rolecard is red again

[MafMen]

that's such a scummy reaction what

wtf

that's not how this works at all

big townie energy here

[MafMen]

So how do you get townreads in this game

pray

[MafMen]

If I trust scum will they just quicktrust me and exit

locktown
i thought the same thing too when the game started lmao and my rolecard is green

[MafMen]

Vote counts as Trust here as i remember.

I think I just accidentally cleared wisdom while goofing around go me

dont get me wrong hes townie asf but maybe lets not do that lmao

[MafMen]

Also this is a tricky in another way

Do I wanna townread someone and exit with them or stay and catch scum

more townie posts from wisdom

[MafMen]

Also this is a tricky in another way

Do I wanna townread someone and exit with them or stay and catch scum

I'll be obvtown in like ~48 hours and would suggest we combine our powers and roast the scums

youre always obvtown even as scum
help me out here
whats your role

[MafMen]

'the worst' initial scumping for claiming to not know the rules on page 3, when they had been referenced a couple times already by that point - potentially tricking someone into an early OMGUS trust thing. and also repeated claims Enchant is town, with no reason given.

ew

no

[MafMen]

Can someone gimme an update on pooky's posts? Is he towny yet?

[MafMen]

I say we just make Pooky's day by leave him and Tammy as f2

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[MafMen]

Anyway, I figured I'd see how things played out and started and figure out how to play it from there.

I'm really curious about this. Maybe you're having fun horsing around with Pooky but there isn't really a solve intent.

If I were scum, you don't know how much I would appreciate this. Your presence in games is enjoyable, even when you're a murderer, but here as scum I wouldn't have the sweet release of an early elimination when I made myself obvious. I'd just have to sit around waiting til the end. So, yeah the company would be nice.

I am town though!

This makes my head tilt a bit, too, because while you don't prefer scum your scumgame is not weak.

I'm not solving right now. I'm not really one to attempt to solve in the first few pages of the game. I don't like to do it, nor am I good at it. I typically think most people look scummy in the first few pages of the game because I can't tell the difference between people pretending to solve and people trying to get the game started. Unless something really jumps out at me, like your entrance in Warehouse 13, I pretty much view everything early game as neutral noise that I'll look back at later when I actually get serious. I used to try because I thought I needed to be aggressive to be town read, but I hated it, so now I play in a way that I enjoy and is comfortable for me.

I get that it can be annoying and I look scummy for it to people who aren't used to my early approach (and even some who are used to it), but once I get started that concern usually goes away. Usually.

I'm also working and just popping in here to shoot the shit every few minutes or so as a little break.

Thank you for thinking my scum game isn't weak. I will admit that I think my scum game is weaker than others do, but other than the flying scumsman which I hydra'd in last year, I have not drawn scum in 4? years? While I think I have a terrible scum game in general, I do not expect my first time drawing scum solo in four years to be anything but me obvscumming immediately and being able to do nothing about it.

Was I right in remembering that you preferred to go out first in most scum teams? What would be different about this game than that? (Or was that the joke you were referring to?)

always love it when someone who was just joking around 5 minutes ago jumps to writing a paragraph whenever someone gets an inkling of suspicion

[MafMen]

hey guys im a bit rusty what does it mean when your rolecard is red again

it means that it's lovely to see you again

<3

[MafMen]

hey guys im a bit rusty what does it mean when your rolecard is red again

it means that

it's lovely to see you again

Oh no it's MafMen

small edit

</3

[MafMen]

whispers

day 5 innocent child

i trust you : )

[MafMen]

I feel like I'm having deja vu from the first time I played this except I'm town this time


do you know what I mean @MafMen

no
first time playing this setup
also not town
i can understand the confusion though

[MafMen]

always love it when someone who was just joking around 5 minutes ago jumps to writing a paragraph whenever someone gets an inkling of suspicion

?

Do you have a problem with me answering a couple questions or that I'm wordy?

(prism, cool cookie)
(pooky, prism)
(everyone else)
(tammy)
()
heres some helpful brackets for later to express my reads guys

[MafMen]

whispers

day 5 innocent child

i trust you : )

you gotta bold that for it to count

haha
yeah
uh
maybe ill uh
do that later

[MafMen]

I feel like I'm having deja vu from the first time I played this except I'm town this time


do you know what I mean @MafMen

no
first time playing this setup
also not town
i can understand the confusion though

hmm

weird

cuz I know who you are

but I guess it's possible you don't know who you are.

true that could definitely be whats happening here
pretty sure this is new for me

[MafMen]

i don't think I can emotionally recover if Tammy really is mafia here

we're here for u

[MafMen]

small edit to my reads
infinity is trending down

[MafMen]

also i for some reason wrote prism twice
the top prism in my brackets is meant to be wisdom

[MafMen]

also i for some reason wrote prism twice
the top prism in my brackets is meant to be wisdom

is this because Wisdom is more townie than Prism or because Prism's scum game is much better than Wisdom's scum game?

the former
i wish i knew her meta but i dont
i feel youre mixing me up with someone

[MafMen]

you guys are definitely being too hard on wisdom here
an 'easy pass'? cmon

[MafMen]

ftr i was stonewallng you in hopes youd implode as you seemed to be heading in that direction
a bit mean but eh

i just dont like the huge switch in attitude you had, especially when it comes as a response to a post calling out your urge to solve, simple as that
comes across disingenuous asf

[MafMen]

you guys are definitely being too hard on wisdom here
an 'easy pass'? cmon

*shrug*

Now do I think Wisdom, who I think could figure out how to get town reads without voting or death tunneling, would come out with something hokey like "how do I get town reads without voting?" as scum. Maybe not, even joking. But I don't trust that interpretation of mine either.

But I respect his scum game too much to just write him off for not trusting when he could have. He could have either not trusted the rule would be in effect and didn't want to risk it or thought that doing it was too risky.

i think the innocence can be trusted here
if his scum game is that powerful maybe you should be wary but i always tend to give the benefit of the doubt to these kinds of players

[MafMen]

i was looking for the easy scumread handed to me on a silver platter but close enough i guess

[MafMen]

wait so can I trust her or not?

follow your heart

[MafMen]

facts

[MafMen]

[MafMen]

i hate to disappoint you but im really not whoever you think i am

[MafMen]

im definitely interested in whoever this mystery person that apparently acts exactly like me is

[MafMen]

tammy's thought line of "i wouldn't be good here if scum" and "i'd already be impressed with myself if scum here" seems genuine so she's lean town i think

i don't think scum!tammy would think she did anything good yet

that's a fair point
itd also be strange for an experienced mafia player to think selfreads are a good thing to do as maf lol

[MafMen]

itd also be strange for an experienced mafia player to think selfreads are a good thing to do as maf lol

i self-read myself all the time as mafia

its dope

its okay only if its you

[MafMen]

itd also be strange for an experienced mafia player to think selfreads are a good thing to do as maf lol

i self-read myself all the time as mafia

its dope

its okay only if its you doing it

ebwop hit submit early for some reason

[MafMen]

Personally I live to say people are stupid for townreading me every game just because I rolled FN

fn?

[MafMen]

oh friendly neighbour

[MafMen]

i don't have too many thoughts yet. prism feels somewhat towny, the early townread on pooky was kinda serious, mafman pings me a little but i don't have anything concrete.

just pings? or do we have something to go back and forth on

[MafMen]

So far I'd trust literally no one, which kind of owns

i would, in all honesty, trust the first person who trusts me

[MafMen]

whats everyones read on cookie?
i feel even with those 3 posts fae have made some of the most ai posts yet

[MafMen]

i don't have too many thoughts yet. prism feels somewhat towny, the early townread on pooky was kinda serious, mafman pings me a little but i don't have anything concrete.

just pings? or do we have something to go back and forth on

just pings, mostly you're sorting but not particularly townily

i get that alot
either it evens out eventually and i get wide townread or im eliminated day 2

good thing this game has no eliminations

[MafMen]

whats everyones read on cookie?
i feel even with those 3 posts fae has* made some of the most ai posts yet

ebwop

[MafMen]

whats everyones read on cookie?
i feel even with those 3 posts fae have made some of the most ai posts yet

felt like the worst sus was pretty bad so i asked faer about it, besides that nothing why

i have a strong townread and alot of people (unless my brain is remembering shit that didnt happen, which happens more then id like to admit) disagree with my read and so i just wanted to see everyones opinions on faer

i think faer tw sus was a pretty genuine read even if i feel its one thats a little misplaced, what would you say is wrong with it?

[MafMen]

whats everyones read on cookie?
i feel even with those 3 posts fae has* made some of the most ai posts yet

ebwop

cookie's posts felt a bit stilted at parts like the I'm watching you bit and the but how well do you know each other thing. Without more posts to see if that's just their natural tone and writing style though they're just mild pings.

hmm okay yeah i can see totally see how the tone there can ping somebody

idk if im allowed to make a read like this but judging by faer join date i think it can get passed off as awkward newbie vocabulary

[MafMen]

i don't see what's genuine about it and it just seems wrong, like scum wouldn't try to trick people about the rules they're in the op

could be wrong scum or wrong town

genuine as in they seem to really believe it

while i definitely think fae is thinking about it all wrong the reasons dont seem to be the kind of waffle youd see from scum

[MafMen]

on a towniness per post level Faer is S-Tier

fixed

LOL thats one way to look at it yea

[MafMen]

on the flip side faer activity in previous games is levels above this so idk
still worth townreading i think though

[MafMen]

there's no way you're not the person I think you are

but I guess it's not implausible that you've forgotten who you are.

true that is a very real possibility

[MafMen]

i dont think bad reasoning = town
its more how much the player seems to believe their read

[MafMen]

there's no way you're not the person I think you are

but I guess it's not implausible that you've forgotten who you are.

im starting to think maybe i shouldnt trust your reads on alignments LOL

[MafMen]

there's no way you're not the person I think you are

but I guess it's not implausible that you've forgotten who you are.

im starting to think maybe i shouldnt trust your reads on alignments LOL

the more i think about it the more im absolutely fuckin confused

[MafMen]

????????????

[MafMen]

i feel like somehow im being collectively trolled by everyone yet the only one i know here is the duck

[MafMen]

i feel like somehow im being collectively trolled by everyone yet the only one i know here is the duck

who are you again?

</3
youre the only one i can trust here dont do this to me

[MafMen]

the one person who can vouch that im a real human and not gaslight me into thinking i have an alterego does this shit rofl

[MafMen]

You don't want to know what your alter ego has been up to while you've been asleep tbh

ah so i got a dr jekyll situation going on here
thats rough

[MafMen]

it would be such a mind fuck if Mafmen is my alt like in that movie Memento

shh you dont want us to get banned

[MafMen]

mafmen keeps pinging me

id love if this read gets more depth
not because im annoying about people reads not having reasons
not because i get really mad at peoples scumreads on me
but because im a bad person and want scumreads on me to be indepth so i can argue about it

[MafMen]

wanting to argue is scum indicative

do not tell me its not fun

[MafMen]

wanting to argue is scum indicative

do not tell me its not fun

It is very fun

and Mafia love to do it

i direct you to the first post in my iso

[MafMen]

wanting to argue is scum indicative

do not tell me its not fun

It is very fun

and Mafia love to do it

i direct you to the first post in my iso

[MafMen]

brb

[MafMen]

back

[MafMen]

Also this is a tricky in another way

Do I wanna townread someone and exit with them or stay and catch scum

I'll be obvtown in like ~48 hours and would suggest we combine our powers and roast the scums

youre always obvtown even as scum
help me out here
whats your role

mmmmmm

quick shameless omgus
but shows up, says this, then vanishes

[MafMen]

Even I wondered at that double post.

please...
someone...
just one of you please say the name of who you think i am

[MafMen]

Even I wondered at that double post.

please...
someone...
just one of you please say the name of who you think i am

I think you're me

yeah weve come to this agreement already but prism and tammy seem to think im someone else
am i dr jekyll or mr hyde here

[MafMen]

you're dr. hykyll.

mr. jede

[MafMen]

expending political capital to shade someone who's town is not exactly a winning strategy for a scumside player.

your goal is to get someone to trust you

not make sure nobody can trust anyone (cuz that's like literally impossible)

say it louder for the people in the back

[MafMen]

not one person has the balls to scumread me fully
its all "could bes" and "slight pings"

come at me

[MafMen]

also talk to me about that towncore wisdom
you picked 4 of the most active players and made them town, is there any underlying reasons with them? or is that just gut feelings?

[MafMen]

thats such a non answer but honestly i shouldve seen it coming when i asked if it was only gut
how about your scumreads? infinity/klick is an interesting thought can you walk me through that?

[MafMen]

Vote counts as Trust here as i remember.

I think I just accidentally cleared wisdom while goofing around go me

yeah wisdom probably town

Like this is a more likely scum reaction to tw's thing than Tammy's
Town should be questioning it and making sure I am not considered conftown for ever because

they should be scared of my scum game

talk your shit bro
but yeah i get that perspective
ill have to reread infinity

[MafMen]

i do think youre being a bit hard on klick with that tho
i think its a perfectly fair assumption to make that scum!tammy doesnt like town!you when coming into this game blind

[MafMen]

like pooky said scum has no reason to discredit other people in this type of gamemode

[MafMen]

like pooky said scum has no reason to discredit other people in this type of gamemode

I dont agree with that, scum do want townies to be scumread because theyll just get poe'd out otherwise
Plus if they want to be townread they need to do town things, and trying to catch scum is one of them
So Klick "scumreading" Tammy achieves both attempting to lower Tammy's towncred and making Klick look like he's scumhunting

scums drive to discredit people is initially to get them mislimmed
that is not present here
town does poe through nks and lims
that is not present here

[MafMen]

Then how do I have a poe of four without nks and lims

the difference between your scumpool and your townpool can easily be separated by activity

[MafMen]

ill have to make a clarification

town

accurately

poes with nks and lims

[MafMen]

for the record i dont townread klick, just saying that in case any misconceptions arise
i just think the read isnt fair

[MafMen]

So basically youre discrediting my reads and dodging the point, got it

if thats what you took from what i said then this was a waste of time rofl

[MafMen]

Like the point is that Klick has scum motivation to make that push, whether there are lims and nks in the game or not

The rest is irrelevant

they really dont, and its not 'dodging the point' to disagree with you
im gonna stop before this goes in circles lol

[MafMen]

I outlined what the scum motivation is and you said nothing about it, instead you argued generics about whether the game has lims or not

so yeah

your exact words were that klick hypothetically achieves lowering tammy's towncred and making klick look like theyre scumhunting
i say its unfair to make that judgement as there is realistically zero scum motivation and/or equal scum motivation as town behind klicks read

go ahead and scumread klick but im going to call out wrong reasons when i feel i see it

[MafMen]

like pooky said scum has no reason to discredit other people in this type of gamemode

I dont agree with that, scum do want townies to be scumread because theyll just get poe'd out otherwise
Plus if they want to be townread they need to do town things, and trying to catch scum is one of them
So Klick "scumreading" Tammy achieves both attempting to lower Tammy's towncred and making Klick look like he's scumhunting

it's also a take on a fairly active player who is like, already not widely townread (= at least slightly contentious = he's more likely to find someone willing to lend an ear.

Tammy does feel like a fairly natural place for scum to start to pick things apart

i disagree
tammy is not the chink in our armor

[MafMen]

Mafmen

do you think its realistic for Klick to worry about Tammy getting to leave

town!klick that scumreads tammy? yes
scum!klick no

[MafMen]

which is why town!klick can be a perfectly real thing

scumreading klick for wrongthink just aint it bro

[MafMen]

i say its unfair to make that judgement as there is realistically zero scum motivation and/or equal scum motivation as town behind klicks read

There is zero scum motivation in trying not to have Tammy getting townread by everyone?
There is zero scum motivation in trying to look like he's scumhunting?
Yes, you can argue there could be equal town motivation with a sentence like "Okay but maybe Klick is town and he's genuinely worried about Tammy and thought he should voice it" but you arent doing that, instead youre being weird and just making me think youre scum

jesus you keep putting me in a spot that forces me to whiteknight klick

There is zero scum motivation in trying to look like he's scumhunting?

dont just slip this line in here
this completely eliminates any world with town!klick and acts like its not klick just regularly scumhunting

[MafMen]

Mafmen

do you think its realistic for Klick to worry about Tammy getting to leave

town!klick that scumreads tammy? yes
scum!klick no

ok who is town!klick worried about leaving with tammy?

preventing scum leaving is priority #1 not worrying about who specifically would leave with them
but im not klick

[MafMen]

Im not eliminating anything
Youre arguing that the scum motivation I outlined has zero scum motivation in it

im arguing that klicks read itself has zero to equal amounts of scum motivation as town to it not whatever world you cooked up where klick has to be fake scumhunting

[MafMen]

Currently I just think Klick is actually town and MafMen is tming tbh

lol

[MafMen]

Yeah so basically we're back to the same conclusion - you're discrediting my read on Klick. You are taking my argument and going "nooo, this can also be town".

All this while avoiding to commit to an actual read yourself

LOL
i am discrediting your read
youve taken one very rare possibility where klick is scum here going for an easy discredit on tammy all the while boosting their own and somehow got a confident scumread out of it
i say confident but youve come out the other end of this argument townreading klick somehow

[MafMen]

Not rare at all, Klick voiced an opinion I completely disagreed with, pushed a player I am strongly townreading, hence it makes perfect sense to me that him being scum doing it is much more likely than him being town with a genuine concern for Tammy

You are trying to argue that he's equally likely town which is bs

from my perspective where you are scumreading klick for wrongthink, theres definitely cause to say hes equally likely town

[MafMen]

And the fact you are stubborn about this just makes me think that you *know* Klick to be town so you know yourself to be right (;
Hence my statement about you tming.

yeah i knew this post would come of use

for the record i dont townread klick, just saying that in case any misconceptions arise
i just think the read isnt fair

[MafMen]

What wrongthink?

Klick accused Tammy of trying to shade the conftown reads on me because she's scum worrying someone will get conftown

yes
literally that

[MafMen]

What wrongthink?

Klick accused Tammy of trying to shade the conftown reads on me because she's scum worrying someone will get conftown

yes
literally that

How is that "wrongthink"

Noun
wrongthink (uncountable)

Beliefs or opinions that run contrary to the prevailing orthodoxy.

?

[MafMen]

lets not switch this argument to my vocabulary now

[MafMen]

And the fact you are stubborn about this just makes me think that you *know* Klick to be town so you know yourself to be right (;
Hence my statement about you tming.

why cant mafmen just be town and wrong about scum klick tho lol

Because theyre needlessly stubborn about this as if they know theyre right

And the fact you are stubborn about this just makes me think that you *know* Klick to be town so you know yourself to be right (;
Hence my statement about you tming.

yeah i knew this post would come of use

for the record i dont townread klick, just saying that in case any misconceptions arise
i just think the read isnt fair

[MafMen]

Im def not scumreading him for having an unorthodox take

that is how you made it seem

[MafMen]

And quoting 504 does nothing for me other than making you even more likely scum for avoiding taking a solid stance on Klick

504 was because i felt you would somehow make it out to be me defending town!klick not me trying to prevent you from going after them for the wrong reasons

[MafMen]

Not rare at all, Klick voiced an opinion I completely disagreed with, pushed a player I am strongly townreading, hence it makes perfect sense to me that him being scum doing it is much more likely than him being town with a genuine concern for Tammy

You are trying to argue that he's equally likely town which is bs

?

[MafMen]

also getting scum!tammy from it instead of town!tammy is very much wrongthink as well
but ill repeat myself lets not make this an argument about vocabulary

[MafMen]

And quoting 504 does nothing for me other than making you even more likely scum for avoiding taking a solid stance on Klick

504 was because i felt you would somehow make it out to be me defending town!klick not me trying to prevent you from going after them for the wrong reasons

So basically what Im reading is you also know *me* to be town and you're trying to guide my reads

?
youve been one of my top townreads for awhile
this is a well known thing that ive been very vocal about

[MafMen]

im digging the confbias here tho lolol

[MafMen]

im not even sure the two of you know what you're arguing about at this point

not a clue

[MafMen]

look on the bright side youve come out of this looking a lot townier

[MafMen]

also a bit preemptive on the 'no ones agreeing with me' part
you already got infinity and duck on the wagon with you

[MafMen]

probably a few more honestly ive not been doing too hot this game

[MafMen]

Good thing I dont actually have to get you lim'd

As long as you remain in the final four Im content

ive no intention to trust anyone first dw
can you imagine how embarrassing itd be to be rejected here?

[MafMen]

weve been arguing for two hours holy shit what

[MafMen]

I'm skippin quite a lot of this sorry can I get a 100 word summary?

wisdoms scumread on klick was very fragile imo and so i wanted to advise him against being confident in it

[MafMen]

y cant it be something as simple as
"i see scummy, i point out scummy"

[MafMen]

fair enough

[MafMen]

Spoiler:

mmmmmm

what was this

It felt like an indirect rebuttal to me calling ducky obvtown in 147

in what way
i made a joke because im scared of the ducks wolfgame lol

pooky's klick push feels very genuine, but it's not scummy to say a thought because you have it

klick is null/PoE for me

^

Against my better judgement I caught up on the game.

I don't think MafMen essentially saying "but it might come from town, too" is as clever of a point as he thinks regarding Wisdom's reaction to Klick. I concur with Wisdom in that posts like 522 are a bit overly principled. If MafMen doesn't TR Klick and doesn't SR Wisdom I don't know why they didn't just wait to see what happens.

i did not mean for the argument to blow up to that proportion
i just didnt like the read, it was a slippery slope that couldve potentially lead to a whole lot of confbias, why should i sit and wait and not combat something i dont like?

also i for some reason wrote prism twice
the top prism in my brackets is meant to be wisdom

Can you speak more as to how you arrived at those brackets, and maybe what order you placed people in their respective spots? (eg. Were those brackets typed in chronological order, names inserted haphazardly or shifted around?)

most of my intention behind making those brackets was to express a scumlean against tammy instead of responding to her to reaction test her
i didnt have a particular order in the way i sorted people, i just went with each name that came to mind. i was debating between putting you in townlean or townread but decided on the former after i realized i had nothing more than gut to sort you on. i sorted wisdom after you and accidentally wrote your name instead of his because of the difficulty i had sorting you

you and pooky were gutreads, and wisdom and cookie were stronger than that

expending political capital to shade someone who's town is not exactly a winning strategy for a scumside player.

your goal is to get someone to trust you

not make sure nobody can trust anyone (cuz that's like literally impossible)

Scum doesn't just want to get trusted - they want to be trusted more than town
So scum!Tammy would be concerned about town'Wisdom getting soft-confirmed because that takes away from her potential pairings, since all the townies that might have wanted to pair with her would instead be appealing to Wisdom

I don't feel like this is stupid? But it seems that everyone has a consensus about this and I've not played the setup before admittedly

agree with Klick here. I can see scum wanting to shade 1 player to make them feel forced into accepting any trust they can find. maybe wouldn't work with experienced players but I think that is a motive for throwing shade on the right player (whilst wanting to suck up to the majority too). so I think slight tendency towards players who are bucking the consensus and standing out. i havent read everything back but was liking mafmen for town apart from 1 post which referred to my "previous games", when I only have 1, which didn't really make sense. Pooky-Tammy is probably a lock unless they are both scum which would be awkward. i will keep catching up when i can.

you played in a large and a mini normal but okay

I am thinking about two candidates which i plan to trust soon. Before that, i wish ask everyone. Who you would suggest for town deserved trust?

wisdom pooky

I don't feel very confident read-wise rn

the weaker players r barely participating and I don't feel comfortable townbinning the stronger players atm since they are perfectly capable of maintaining this kind of thread presence/activity as scum.

who are the weaker players?

me

you are the scariest player in this game even though you are a harmless duck

I'm a bit dubious about what the scum motivation for hard wking Klick is there.

if klick is town and the only person who trusts klick is MafMen then its an easy out

i sort of feel like infinity is skirting on the periphery but posts when they pop up never really fill me with deep joy.

maybe it's too early for scumreads though - more important to keep an open mind about who could be town.

can you expand a bit on why that would make infinity scum? in your state this is pretty pot/kettle m

not really, it's just a gut feel. like i dont always really notice infinity is there, and occasionally i see a post and my heart sinks a little. gut reads are very much a personal thing, if you feel the same about me or just dont like the way i talk thats fine. at some point i could make a scumcase on someone but my point is that it isnt really the time for that now.

i really like this

to be a bit more translucent I'm very very wary of how infinity reacted

which reaction? you mean how their townread dropped because wisdom confirmed he didnt see the trust or?

[MafMen]

ftr klick isnt the only one ive defended this game from reads i felt werent really
well
that

good

its just the only one that exploded like that

[MafMen]

which reaction? you mean how their townread dropped because wisdom confirmed he didnt see the trust or?

Yup - their read was very "this happened therefore town / therefore scum" and I was looking for a bit more nuance.

mm i guess

[MafMen]

does enchant feel almost invisible for anybody or is that just me

[MafMen]

i mean he hasn't really been posting

i dont mean like inactivity
when you cookie and klick were lowposters you guys were still very noticeable but enchant for me has been flying under the radar

[MafMen]

does enchant feel almost invisible for anybody or is that just me

i've found his takes abstract but interesting. what do you think of them?

after my tammy read flopped i was left with a bunch of nulls but if i had to pick a candidate for scum hed probably be one of them
his entrance is unnatural, i liked his refusing trust =/= town post, i dont like that he showed no thought progression on how he got two candidates to trust

[MafMen]

"on his own wavelength" is exactly the words i was trying to brain

if its his meta to be a recluse like this then perhaps im wrong but he posts seem very awkward

[MafMen]

his*

[MafMen]

this isnt something im confident in though
i have alot of townreads and not many null and below so im shamelessly throwing shit and hoping it sticks

[MafMen]

my updated brackets probably look like
(pooky, cookie, wisdom)
(prism, infinity, tammy)
(tw, enchant, klick)
()
()

[MafMen]

now that i think about it im not really comfortable with there being 2 scum in klick, enchant, and tw so im gonna have to probably redo my reads

[MafMen]

yeah infinity can be null

[MafMen]

Overall I'm really struggling to find any townreads. The only question I am deeply invested in right now waits for MafMen to show up.

I guess for now I'll just stay out of the way for the most part.

I fuckin' can't this game lmao

I'll have someone come fetch me when I decide to stop playing like absolute fucking trash

whatd i do

[MafMen]

wait you guys are serious about treating trusts as clears?

[MafMen]

*shrug*

they're pretty good but not like as good as if a mafia already left

not really
plenty of timelines where tw or tammy is scum

[MafMen]

i wouldn't go that far but yeah i don't like mafmen's paranoia here

its not paranoia to account for every possibility

[MafMen]

I'm happy just leaving me/MafMen on the island with whatever random pairings and calling it a game.

so long as it doesnt take weeks to get down to f-4 im fine sticking around

[MafMen]

in my experience playing this as scum

the pressure gets worse as time drags on

both tws biggest supporter and tammys (second) biggest supporter is wisdom, wouldnt scum!them prefer waiting for a little to see if they can trustfall others?
dont get me wrong, i havent played this gamemode like you have so chances are i am the biggest idiot of all time

[MafMen]

so you're saying TW/Tammy decided to slow play Wisdom so that Wisdom trusts me and then I fall for Tammy and then Tammy cackles in glee and betrays me and then TW gets to finish the game off by taking Wisdom on a joyride?

A chilling tale of betrayal and intrigue for sure.

i mean i think itd make a good story
modern day romeo and juliet

[MafMen]

look at him
hes a teddy bear cosplaying as a pirate
he couldnt possibly be evil

[MafMen]

I'm a duck cosplaying as a sparkly fox what could possibly be cuter than that?

foxes are members of the canidae family, as are wolves

[MafMen]

bork bork

the totally small poe of you enchant klick and maybe infinity

[MafMen]

nice quoted the wrong post

[MafMen]

you can include yourself for accuracy i wont deduct points for that

youre not gonna catch me that easily

[MafMen]

qualify any of those reads pls or why you're townreading either wisdom or cookie or prism and why your read on Klick dropped so much

it literally has never dropped
i have never once townread klick and i have stated that many times
wisdom just decided to turn me saying his read is weak into an entire argument and force me into a position where i would be defending klick rather than be criticizing his read

i mindmelded with a lot of wisdoms earlier posts and his arrogance/stubbornness throughout our argument reads town
i divulged my cookie read earlier
prism is just gut, i like her attitude and id imagine an experienced player doesnt (as mafia) try to coast a game by saying theyre lost for reads

[MafMen]

qualify any of those reads pls or why you're townreading either wisdom or cookie or prism and why your read on Klick dropped so much

it literally has never dropped
i have never once townread klick and i have stated that many times
wisdom just decided to turn me saying his read is weak into an entire argument and force me into a position where i would be defending klick rather than be criticizing his read

i mindmelded with a lot of wisdoms earlier posts and his arrogance/stubbornness throughout our argument reads town
i divulged my cookie read earlier
prism is just gut, i like her attitude and id imagine an experienced player doesnt (as mafia) try to coast a game by saying theyre lost for reads

you really went through that whole thing just to include klick in your PoE anyway? -_-

like i get that you can get baited into the argument, but why did you think it was so important to call out wisdom's "bad reasoning" there

prism coasting is probably +town for her tbh, she has a lot of pride in her scumgame

he attacked my argument assuming i townread klick and despite how many times i clarified otherwise he kept going, cornering me into defending klick
thats how that argument went

[MafMen]

i didnt find it important at all, or think it was 'clever' like prism said
i made the original post with one intention and that was saying his read was weak, it was that simple, and it got blown up

[MafMen]

ok but why keep arguing with him

eventually he started coming after me thinking i was scum so at that point there was no going back

[MafMen]

i mean if you understood from page 1 that he was like arguing with you about something you never even said, why keep going for like 5 pages

part 1 of the argument was him misinterpreting me and me clarifying he was wrong, also trying to bring it back on track about his read being weak
part 2 was him scumreading me so i indirectly defended myself by defending my argument about his read
i couldnt just suddenly stop responding anywhere throughout that argument

[MafMen]

Spoiler:

for the record i dont townread klick, just saying that in case any misconceptions arise
i just think the read isnt fair

Like the point is that Klick has scum motivation to make that push, whether there are lims and nks in the game or not

The rest is irrelevant

they really dont, and its not 'dodging the point' to disagree with you
im gonna stop before this goes in circles lol

I outlined what the scum motivation is and you said nothing about it, instead you argued generics about whether the game has lims or not

so yeah

your exact words were that klick hypothetically achieves lowering tammy's towncred and making klick look like theyre scumhunting
i say its unfair to make that judgement as there is realistically zero scum motivation and/or equal scum motivation as town behind klicks read

go ahead and scumread klick but im going to call out wrong reasons when i feel i see it

Im not eliminating anything
Youre arguing that the scum motivation I outlined has zero scum motivation in it

im arguing that klicks read itself has zero to equal amounts of scum motivation as town to it not whatever world you cooked up where klick has to be fake scumhunting

said times where i either tried to end the argument or where i clarified my stance on klick

Spoiler:

i say its unfair to make that judgement as there is realistically zero scum motivation and/or equal scum motivation as town behind klicks read

There is zero scum motivation in trying not to have Tammy getting townread by everyone?
There is zero scum motivation in trying to look like he's scumhunting?
Yes, you can argue there could be equal town motivation with a sentence like "Okay but maybe Klick is town and he's genuinely worried about Tammy and thought he should voice it" but you arent doing that, instead youre being weird and just making me think youre scum

jesus you keep putting me in a spot that forces me to whiteknight klick

There is zero scum motivation in trying to look like he's scumhunting?

dont just slip this line in here
this completely eliminates any world with town!klick and acts like its not klick just regularly scumhunting

so called part 2 where he started scumreading me thus cornering me into defending klick

[MafMen]

its just the person I think you are.

also likes to argue about really inane stuff

when they are mafia

cuz arguing about inane stuff is easy

making up real thoughts is hard

oh my god i thought i was playing bad enough that this wouldve been dropped but i guess not

[MafMen]

actually no i guess i am playing bad enough when whatever person you think i am does this as mafia when im town in this situation

[MafMen]

mafmen i get that you want to keep your alt secret but we've figured you out, you can drop the act

if i prove pooky right that would be tantamount to scumclaiming

[MafMen]

big fat null
the only thing i remember of yours that i had an opinion on was your short interaction with pooky, which i liked for the both of you

[MafMen]

i wouldn't go that far but yeah i don't like mafmen's paranoia here

its not paranoia to account for every possibility

Yet when Tammy did it and Klick scumread her Klick was right, huh?
Youre so obviously scum

also getting scum!tammy from it instead of town!tammy is very much wrongthink as well
but ill repeat myself lets not make this an argument about vocabulary

case and point wisdom likes to interpret my posts as he pleases

[MafMen]

all youve done throughout our previous interactions is interpreted my posts in a way to support your prior scumread on me

[MafMen]

pretty sure i just defined confirmation bias
go figure

[MafMen]

im not about to have a back and forth over nonsense shit again
dont get me wrong im a bad person and like arguing but once is enough for me

[MafMen]

when did i say that wisdoms read is wrong no matter what?
ive only ever gone after his read for its weak reasons i dont see the issue here

[MafMen]

The point is you think, or at least seem to think that the process or idea behind Wisdom's read is wrong no matter what [Klick's alignment is]

How pedantic are you going to get, dude?

yes thats basically it
im sorry for being annoying and misinterpreting, i thought we were still on the whole point of me thinking klick was town so i lashed out a little lol

[MafMen]

im enjoying the wisdom pooky thunderdome and all but yeah klick needs to stay to atleast f4

[MafMen]

inactivity is NAI yada yada
but the flaking here is whack

[MafMen]

i think we probly just win with klick in f2

he has really terrible wim as mafia lol

ah missed this my b

[MafMen]

missed the juicy bit and only get on when everyone is already off rip

[MafMen]

pagetop

[MafMen]

@prism who would be scum!pookys teammate here? would it be cookie for you or?

[MafMen]

...Any thoughts on the players involved?

It is worth noting that Pooky is not saying (though he might believe, idk) activity is AI in general. He is saying it is scum indicative specifically for Klick.

im tempted to call it townie with the way it came out of nowhere
lowkey i sort of agree with him but thats against my better judgement

[MafMen]

if my reads are this ass backwards perhaps i should go back into retiring from mafia

[MafMen]

hm pooky was on wisdoms side thru alot of this game so this outburst hardly makes sense now that i think about it
does scum!pooky get genuinely pissed at wisdom or his he that good at theatre

[MafMen]

i need guidance
i only get whats essentially coinflips as results for the MU quizzes
im dogshit

[MafMen]

I don't know who Pooky's partner would be but I don't really do preflips and Pooky is at the null-nullscum slot anyway.

my b got ahead of myself, thought pooky was the new wagon
thats completely fair yeah

[MafMen]

i have gone from three confident townreads and three townleans to having only two townleans and the rest null
slowly losing my motivation to play this

[MafMen]

if wisdom is actually scum here itd probably be with the duck
i dont see any other potential pairings except mayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybe tammy but she seems pretty green

[MafMen]

pooky to my recollection you townread wisdom pretty heavily, where did it all go wrong? you probably explained earlier but as seen by my prior fuckups with other people im a big dumb idiot who needs shit laid out in front of him to understand anything

[MafMen]

pooky to my recollection you townread wisdom pretty heavily, where did it all go wrong? you probably explained earlier but as seen by my prior fuckups with other people im a big dumb idiot who needs shit laid out in front of him to understand anything

so guiding me with a helping hand would be great bro

[MafMen]

listening to berserk ost at 1:30 in the morning hits so hard holy shit

[MafMen]

if wisdom is actually scum here itd probably be with the duck
i dont see any other potential pairings except mayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybe tammy but she seems pretty green

Me/duck = duck leaves with Enchant
No reason for him to stay

and i think youre likely town so thats why it seems implausible lol

[MafMen]

i suppose scum!you being with tammy rather than tw makes a hell of a lot more sense than whatever the fuck i was saying now that i think about it, but nevertheless the point stands that the pairing seem unlikely as hell because chances are youre town

[MafMen]

pooky to my recollection you townread wisdom pretty heavily, where did it all go wrong? you probably explained earlier but as seen by my prior fuckups with other people im a big dumb idiot who needs shit laid out in front of him to understand anything

he flunked reaction test today badly

yeah question dodging was hella awkward considering how he happily fought me but /shrug

[MafMen]

wisdom after having that short interaction with pooky do you think hes scum

[MafMen]

yeah question dodging was hella awkward considering how he happily fought me but /shrug

Not sure how you read that exchange and find

this

awkward instead of what pooky was doing
But lets not forget youre scum here

bro wtf are you talking about, by awkward i mean suspicious
pookys posts, while performative, read completely genuine
u trippin dawg

p-edit: ight good, if you scumread him for anything in that then i wouldve gone full nuclear with pooky

[MafMen]

But to entertain you anyway
I think you are scum and I will keep fighting you all the time if I think not doing so might poison the town
Pooky is most likely town so I dont feel the need to do that

slowly you are becoming the only one with a read like that bro
u gonna have to learn to get rid of that arrogance and stop tunnel visioning eventually

[MafMen]

See Pooky
Everyone else wished you were scum because your argument was so dumb and sad
But Mafmen instatownreads you

nice appeal to ridicule
its really fucking obvious hes town here and anyone who stops and thinks about it for two seconds will think the same

[MafMen]

Its just Klick and Mafmen and we're wasting our time in circles (:

you are the one making people run in circles LOL

[MafMen]

Yep its extra obvious when you know him to be town, im sure

i dont like you

[MafMen]

Its just Klick and Mafmen and we're wasting our time in circles (:

you are the one making people run in circles LOL

lol what?

youve been at the center of every big happening in the town because you cant get enough of swinging your dick around

[MafMen]

And ill continue to be until you and klick are in last four and we win

i hope youll be there with us dawg

[MafMen]

its a deal then

[MafMen]

man why did miura have to die
left his masterpiece unfinished, absolutely heartbreaking

[MafMen]

pooky r u ever gonna reveal who you thought i was
its been bugging me ever since u made that first post

[MafMen]

it cant have been an elaborate joke and was just you saying you saw yourself in me or some shit
even prism and tammy saw something there

please it cant have been

[MafMen]

ok good morning i guess

[MafMen]

it doesnt help that the majority of the active players are playing the hero and are completely fucking refuse to trust anyone rofl

[MafMen]

I mean, ive trusted two

both of which dont want to trust people yet lol

[MafMen]

(pooky)
(prism, infinity, the worst)
(everyone else)
()
()

wisdom here is specifically nulltown but im not gonna add another fkn bracket to express that
gn

[MafMen]

shouldnt we try and like shoot in the less active players for the day 1 trustfall
i fucking worry for the state of this game if we send out tw and tammy this early

[MafMen]

if we get rid of two of the most agreed upon townreads day 1 its going to be a shitfest

[MafMen]

just making this to steal the ducks second top poster spot

[MafMen]

Of course you worry when your buddy is in the less active players

nice try but itd make no fucking sense for scum!me to try and send out my partner

[MafMen]

huh? How so? Say youre scum with cookie. You obviously can handle yourself much better than them since im the only one scumreading you while more people scumread cookie. Why wouldn't you want them finding a chance to exit?

good job bro, youre the only one scumreading me but you dont see the glaringly obvious point that everyone, even the ones fucking townreading me, collectively agree that i should stay until the game ends, and no matter how much they townread me that fact wont change unless scum!me gets help from my partner to maybe convince people

getting rid of scum!me's partner gets rid of my only lifeline who can help me, and if you dont get that and still try and argue this point im not going to respond

[MafMen]

So mafmen and klick should be in final four, most likely along with infinity and cookie unless something dramatic happens

Right now I'd trade Infinity for Pooky but this is generally OK with me.

prism, my biggest supporter

[MafMen]

theres a dutch saying called "zwijgen is instemmen" which is basically "since you didn't answer, then you agreed with me"
even though the reads on me have turned around nobody has openly disagreed with the idea of me sticking around

p-edit: whatever dude this is why i wanted to not respond, youre just arguing semantics at this point

[MafMen]

No, you are arguing semantics because youre dodging the point
So to return to the actual point

Who are the ones in the lower activity players who you want to exit?
What are you doing about it other than just voicing a generic "uh maybe someone in the lower should exit"?
Take a stance and trust someone then

if youd use your fuckin common sense dawg youd know what that sentence means, jesus christ
obviously not klick since everyone has agreed they will stay in the game, so process of elimination gives you one of enchant/cookie/infinity

[MafMen]

using the day 1 trustfall to probe rather than take it safe is the best option
its the same logic as nolimming day 1 or risking a mislim

pedit: "one of them" a.k.a "any"

[MafMen]

now you can respond all you want to try and win this dick measuring contest but im not gonna anymore

[MafMen]

feel free to correct me but i dont remember people having bad feelings about infinity/enchant/cookie

[MafMen]

getting rid of the two most townread players is also a fucking garbage idea

[MafMen]

Are they consensus townreads?
Are they safe to trust?

You openly said its the same as a mislim so you admitted theyre not safe

crazy idea that sending out a lowposting, wide townleaned player, is a better alternative than sending out those two

and i dont know why you think you have some kind of fucking 'gotcha' moment when suggesting me to use my trust on one of those three if i think its a good idea, i dont want to leave

p-edit: arent you the one who trusted tw/tammy in the first place before people confidently townread them? hypocritical bullshit

[MafMen]

Good because for a moment I thought you were supporting him

I supported idea "If you strongly believe someone outside Wisdom/The worst/Tammy is town, you can trust them"

Just pooking with trust on random are horrible idea (especially now with half of town are almost confirmed) and reason we lost previous game.

AGAIN:
Low risk, Low reward is where they trust with each other.
High Risk, High reward is where they trust with someone outside, thus reducing POE but risking hitting scum more likely.

I prefer low, but clearly will not oppose anyone if they strongly believe someone else is town.

i never vouched for 'random players'
mostly everybody has good feelings about the three players i mentioned

[MafMen]

its a very simple ass fucking statement but wisdom always has to find a goddamn way to make everything more complex

as enchant said it is opting for a high risk high reward over a low risk low reward situation but your arrogant ass has to spin everything into a negative viewpoint

p-edit: my only message was that i think we should shoot in one of the lowposters (who most of which are townleaned) instead of getting rid of tw/tammy

[MafMen]

p-edit: arent you the one who trusted tw/tammy in the first place before people confidently townread them? hypocritical bullshit

Tw was consensus and already trusted by Enchant, so just Tammy
The difference, again, is that I trusted my read and took the risk to progress the game
Youre not doing that because you are afraid to take such stances
Youre content arguing generic bs instead

yes blame me for arguing random bullshit when youre the one who spun everything up in the first place
tw was about as consensus as enchant, infinity, and cookie are now, same with tammy

im starting to get what pooky meant by you playing unilaterally