Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

[Datisi]

i dunno, s_s. you were a fan of hanging either skitter or duck on day two.

s_s, if it were up to you, who do we hang and what the plan going forward?

[Datisi]

funnily enough, seeing pooky's scumplay in coalition is what made/makes me scumread him.

[Datisi]

it just makes me wanna kill him. i don't know if dsjstr posted a single game relevant post today.

[Datisi]

... am i reading that right

[Datisi]

that is what i was thinking about actually...

[Datisi]

i don't think it's clearing either, but with both donc expressing a storng townread of koba AND liluth expressing a locktown read of s_s...

[Datisi]

oh right, because i confirmed the fn

[Datisi]

i guess? i don't know. they couldn't go after you anymore, so shading me (and raven) and why not duck too?

[Datisi]

do you think bugspray pushes for a policy lynch of their own partner because he's being destructive and misgendering them and whatnot? i really really really think not.

[Datisi]

Datisi

did you really think I wanted to evict Bugspray because he's been awol in 2 games with me and he was town in both those games but this game he's not awol? Like in what universe is that a good enough reason to evict someone?

my pronoun is they/them
VOTE: pooky

like you literally read so many posts of me lying through my teeth in your game and being fustrated the town wouldn't get rid of me that now you think everything I post is scummy,

even when it's like a random vote on the first day the game is open.

That's why you made some giant convoluted push on me, it's some ego affirming thing so on the off-chance I do flip red you can say to your buddy aldus, see he wasn't that hard to get lynched.

i literally explained it

stop strawmanning

is he arguing with himself now?????

like you literally

read so many posts of me lying through my teeth in your game and being fustrated the town wouldn't get rid of me that now you think everything I post is scummy,

even when it's like a random vote on the first day the game is open.

That's why you made some giant convoluted push on me, it's some ego affirming thing so on the off-chance I do flip red you can say to your buddy aldus, see he wasn't that hard to get lynched.

this is ltierally a self contradiction, pooky earlier said that datisi roots for scum as a mod

pedit my posts are getting eaten no

@bugs, could you clarify if you're actually voting pooky for misgendering you?

it was the straw that broke the camel's back im just fucking done with reading his posts and wanted to i don't care if he's town or scum anymore because his mere presence is hurting town and even if he is some town role he's helping scum

[Datisi]

raven, pooky hardclaimed a role the mod said he wouldn't use in his setup. like what else do you want

[Datisi]

i mean, i've literally been arguing for like a day now how they're s/s so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Datisi]

raven, that's a lie. please don't fall for that shit.

[Datisi]

sigh.

4 to execute, i need... skitt, duck, s_s, me... okay, still doable.

[Datisi]

but i'm much more heavily scumreading pooky and it's just been confirmed he's been lying out of his ass and he's dying first

[Datisi]

dsjstr, please in simple terms out a readslist, this is just confusing.

[Datisi]

Notice how raven is pushing dsjstr instead of confscum

Because he lied? He is claiming a different role to bait the NK, you’re 100% certain that is impossible?

he's scum, raven.

[Datisi]

i highly doubt dsjstr genuinely thinks i'm a viable partner for pooky here.

[Datisi]

this game is gonna be the end of me

[Datisi]

if y'all wanna execute dsjstr, fine. but i'm opening day 3 with a vote on pooky, literally zero questions asked and regardless of what dsjstr flips. procceed as you will.

[Datisi]

@raven, it starts on page 42.

pedit: who's scum then, s_s?

[Datisi]

my bugs tead was +town. my pooky read is +++scum. he's been making bad faith arguments all game. he just got caught in a lie. i'm done sitting on it because he's a CoOl pOwEr RoLe. a bomb lowkey doesn't even fit in this setup. i'm done.

[Datisi]

i'm lowkey sick of paranoia midnfucking myself into second guessing. get a scumread, flip it.

[Datisi]

I think he's more self-aware than that

the main thing here is that it took him no more than two minutes from the time he saw that his vig claim was disproven before he claimed bomb.

that's, like, incredibly quick thinking as scum, for an explanation that's fairly plausible.

why are you sure he posted immediately after seeing the vig claim get disproven?

[Datisi]

ok but if pooky is town then we lose tomorrow if we execute wrong today so you know

[Datisi]

no??? i'm saying i'm struggling to see a town mindset behind having me as a plausible pooky partner???

[Datisi]

skit, as long as you're sure there's at least one scum in dsjstr/pooky.

[Datisi]

oh right, that happened didn't it? bugspray almost lolhammering pooky?

10 mafiascum bucks on that not being s/s...

[Datisi]

[tunnelled datisi talk] if you truly wanted to bait a nightkill, you could've claimed a strong PR back when you were under intent of hammer [/tunnelled datisi talk]

[Datisi]

"i'm a cop, thank you for forcing me to claim you fuck"

*gets nightkilled*

[Datisi]

now i'm thinking if "i'm fine being killed day 1 if that means yall get datisi day 2" contradicts him being a PR

now i wanna vote there again lmao

i said that because i wanted you to back off so i wouldnt have to reveal i am a power role. it also makes mafia think i am townie.

i am on the verge of passing out but i just remembered this post exists

please discuss

[Datisi]

"it also makes mafia think i am townie"...

okay.

[Datisi]

oh look dsjstr just scumclaimed, that's beautiful. so pooky/dsjstr realized they're running out of executes and decided to try to get me hanged? that's cute. that's real fucking cute.

[Datisi]

TOWN
Skitter
tw
ss/koba

NULL
Dats
Raven

MAFIA
Pooky

I know that TW didn't protect the person that people thought was an obvious NK and that pooky lied about their role but I still think Raven/Dats are possible as a team, it makes sense to me.

VOTE: Datisi

It almost felt like Dats/Bugs were playing as masons but there are no masons...

yeah, this is a progression that makes sense. this is not scum panicking at all.

[Datisi]

@Datisi

Have you ever been super confident that a player is scum and you super hard push for their exec but they turn out to be town? Would like a game link to read what that looks like from Town-Datisi thanks

i don't do that unless i'm super confident in my reads, which rarely happens. i cam show you a game of me absolutely mad tunneling a scum. not sure if i have a game of town!me mad tunnelling a townie.

but would it ever change your mind anyway

[Datisi]

look at pooky posturing to vote raven and/or me

look at dsjstr suddenly deciding even tho he was sure pooky was scum apparently it's me/raven

i don't know why y'all are acting like this game isn't solving itself

[Datisi]

btw yeah, i am aware the post i quoted is not the original post, this was

I'm perfectly fine with being evicted D1 to make you look bad D2.

i just found it interesting how this post was made, then after claiming Super Cool PR this post was apparently made in order to make scum think he's a VT so they wouldn't kill him and he could use his Cool PR. but apparently

the post claiming that

was made to make him nightkill bait. okay.

[Datisi]

i don't do that unless i'm super confident in my reads, which rarely happens.

well you've already admitted your read on me this game is due to coalition which is what I suspected in the beginning to begin with.

i think we might have different ideas of what "because of coalition" means. you seem extremely scummy to me this game in a way which is heavily reminding me of it.

i thought me tunneling was obviously towny being wrong. or was saying that a nk bait too?

[Datisi]

yeah, that's how i read bugs. i get a strong urge to hit them over the head with a baseball bat if they're scum. i don't get the same urge if they're town. past games confirm this. i am physically incapable of explaining it.

if the same "coordination" didn't continue when raven replaced in, what dos that tell you?

i said there are two goons because friendly neighbor + bodyguard + named townies (read VTs) is balanced against two mafia goons. no, if you add a town bomb to that, it doesn't make sense. the town bomb doesn't make sense. which you seemed to be on board with until you realized

bussing pooky won't get you any towncred

that me and bugs are apparently playing like "mason". while me and raven aren't. sure.

[Datisi]

dsjstr's iso today jumps from "it's raven/dats" to "pooky is obviously lying i don't wanna vote in case of quickhammer" to "nvm PRs are fine it's raven/dats" again and like none of it is making sense

[Datisi]

I'm less sure about you staying tunnelled and not progressing your read in any way.

my reads progressed though. to "ok guess this dude is PR" to "no wait no his claim is complete bullshit".

like i'm town. skitt is conftown to me. ducky is most liekl, town by setup. s_s's slot was townlocked by two different people whom i trust and who flipped town. that's three people left. one that i townread, one i don't, and one i used to actively scumread, stopped becuse of claim, who made a horrible claiming "gambit", who bad faith pushed through the day one's execution. ye sure. give me a reason i should be townreading you here.

[Datisi]

i think if dsjtr is town we r really fkd

*do* you think he's town?

[Datisi]

i'm leaning towards townreading you but i'm not sold yet

...

i'll try to make s bigger post later on to explain it as best as i can. but like. ughhh.

[Datisi]

in what world are you a misexecute here duckey

[Datisi]

ducky, who is scum?

[Datisi]

i'd say no, but i don't know if i'm the right person to ask that.

[Datisi]

ugh, skitt, i think i'm better at bouncing ideas real-time than making wallposty cases (by that i mean i'm shit at making wallposty cases)

i'll write out some of my ideas now, so for when you come back:

how likely do you think is that there's scum in {dats, duck, s_s}? i wanna talk setup specc (i promise those two sentences are related)

what i meant by "reminds me of coalition" is that from his posts in there, (when looking from an informed perspective) it appeared to me like the posts are specifically made to ~assume the worst in another person~ and then ~present it as a fact~.

like, what i mean is, during day1 or day2 of coalition (i'm not sure off the top of my head), nomination mafia (pooky's scumgame) was going on. now, i wasn't reading that game. i was reading nahdia's flavour, and while doing that i was looking at flips, and once i realized the game got down to 5p lylo, i thought that was interesting so might as well see what happens. i was waiting for the results of the nomination phase since there's a chance town instaloses there. well, that didn't happen, and it was mod confirmed there's at least one scum in {elbrin, pooky, yukino}. on the same page that the mod announced the results of the nom, i skimmed a bit, and saw these posts:

Spoiler:

Neat.

So please understand that from my pov at least one of pooky/yukino is scum

And if you're town fucking help me

And if you are town and you vote for me you have lost the game because both scum will then vote me for the loss

ScumBirn can't even keep his story straight

Before:

I say yukino/pooky scum team

Now:

So please understand that from my pov at least one of pooky/yukino is scum

JUSTICE HAMMAH TIME

"Two people are scum"
"At a minimum one of these same two people is guaranteed scum as stated by the mod"

There is no contradiction between these things

Christ alive

It's not a contradiction.

"Pooky/Yukino = Scum Team" is a much stronger statement than "There must be at least one scum in Pooky/Yukino"

If you really believed "Pooky/Yukino = scum team" you wouldn't even make the statement you did at the beginning of the Execution Phase -

Likely you got mixed up in your scum lies and forgot about your initial contention in the first place. That's why your starting position was "One of Pooky and Yukino must be scum because I'm town" instead of "Pooky and Yukino are both scum - let's lynch one of them"

You had already forgotten your initial position in the first place.

and even though i had read literally

zero

other game posts in that game, in my mind i went "lol pooky is so scum here". because this just reminded me of coalition (which was ongoing but i had spoliers hehe). it was just... taking a normal thing elbrin said and absolutely twisting it beyond sanity to make it appear ~it makes elbrin scum~ and then ~present it as fact~. like it just gave a huge vibe to me of "deciding embrin is scum" > "looking for arguments why he is scum".

and just... pooky's posts in this game are giving me the exact same vibe. i can't shake it off. so many things about what he's wrote about aldus jsut look like blatant "decided aldus is scum" > "looking for reasons why aldus is scum" to me.

like his argument about aldus being scum because he reacted to the whole miccro mask thing is because aldus is scum who is thinking about his own difficulties and who's struggling to come up with fakeclaims. (768) i point out that that cannot an actual reason why aldus is scum because scum is given safe flavour fakeclaims (770) was that ever addressed? did pooky stop to rethink his scumread of aldus when

the main point of why he thought aldus was scum just fell apart

? no, he had more reasons why aldus is scum for the miccro mak thing in 974. (not to mention B) point was later refuted as straight up false by aldus but o-kay)

and this part of that post:

but just think for a second how difficult it would be to believe that a protown power role would decide to hide themselves in a different vanilla game by telling the moderator to change the participation account from their account to a masked account in the pregame immediately after roles are dealt out - like would anyone believe that a power role would do this? I don't think so and I don't see how it's reasonable for Aldus to think this is possible either.

i kept saying how that is actually the very thing i believed but did i ever receive any heat for thinking the same thing as apparently the obvious scumlord aldus???

and like this post:

here's the acceptable reactions I would've thought is within DonC's townrange:

1) He believes koba - massive hardcore flaming - I don't think someone with donC's skill level would actually believe a day-vig is possible in this setup but I could be wrong here.

2) He doesn't believe Koba - he tells koba he's lying and full of !@#$ - this is what I would expect Town DC to do.

Instead we got a reaction that's kind of like a last will thing and we all kind of played along and it feels scummy to me because it feels like DC knew Koba didn't DayVig him but he took adv of it anyway to give this last will type reaction. I dunno I think it feels fake.

like is it really that hard to believe that donc thought "ok this vig is probably fake but on the very very low chance it is real i'm gonna give my last thoughts"?? like this is what i mean by presenting a skewed reality as fact (also sidenote was pooky attacking donc because donc was gunning for dsjstr? thonk)

and like most of pooky's posts from 671 onwards
like i don't know how else to explain it other than "deciding to present someone as scum, taking any of their posts, twisting it to make it scum by any moonlogic imaginable, presenting it as a cold hard fact" and like

skitt i am begging you to consider what i'm saying here

[Datisi]

fuck me that turned into a wallpost

anyway yeah.

[Datisi]

erm excuse you raven, i am a town lover which is obviously the strongest town power role there is, how dare you

on a more serious note, yeah, dsjstr started with "there's probably a liar in the three power roles" to "pooky is obviously lying but i don't wanna vote him in case quickhammer" to "nevermind power roles are fine, it's raven/datisi"

now tell me that scum!dsjstr lays off his "pooky is scum" theory if pooky is actually town here and dsjstr sees me hardpushing pooky... oh yeah, he doesn't.

[Datisi]

also yeah, scum!me, as townread as i was, never confirms town!skitter there. come on now. it was gonna be another juicy day of arguments going nowhere.

[Datisi]

i don't?? like both tw and skitter were going at each other while i was universally townread also scum roleblockers exist so lol??

[Datisi]

if you dont confirm skitter u autohang today lol

also those are really bold words from someone who was townreading me and scumreading skitter by eod1

again, skewing reality presenting it as fact

[Datisi]

not necessarily to get skitter lynched - to keep fuming the absolute shitfest that was skitter/tw. but yeah, i'd eventually start cring "scum rb!" or some or other shit. i'm not scum, i didn't think about it too much.

[Datisi]

- scum!dats claims the message didn't go through
- tw and skitter keep ripping at each other's throats
- at some point it's show that skitter is a fn, at which point scumtisi cries about a rb, by which point it's already lylo

like this is not difficult

[Datisi]

...why does it feel to me like you're trying to just drag me into another pointless discussion... like if you're convinced i tell the truth about the friendly neighbor as either alignment... is this helping you sort me in any way...

...like maybe she would maybe she wouldn't have, i don't know... i'm saying i would've taken that risk as scum... but we don't live in the universe where i deny skitter being conftown to me so this whole discussion is moot...

[Datisi]

oh right, silly me, if you """prove""" scum!datisi also tells the truth about skitter, then you still have the option of pushing me later open. yeah ok.

pedit:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=82461 - newbie 1992, tunnelled poor generalwu on day 1 for "white knighting" or whatever it was, dude flipped town
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=82764 - mini normal 2135 (note i'm playing under the name tanner), tunnelled popo on day 3 (despite him claiming a tracker with a guilty), turned the town around from almost lynching the townie he was claiming a guilty on to lynching him, dude flipped scum

ppedit: and i disagree wiuth that, but you're pretending to know how i'd play, and it's your word against mine, and it's annoying.

[Datisi]

of course it's not gonna be the thing you need... i don't have a game where i tunnel from the start for a long time. (1) because i rarely tunnel, (2) when i do tunnel, those people either die or improve.

do i go "if i'm emotinally committed, that means i'm town" or do i go "i was committed to that game as well, at least on day one, before apparently everyone decided i was obvscum and i didn't have the strength to fight it", hmm...

pedit: how do i feel more emotionally committed to this game but i had very emotionally charged fights there?

[Datisi]

that feels like an extremely loaded question and i can't even figure out in how many ways.

[Datisi]

i don't feel the need to do slurs or personal attacks so i don't give a damn about force replacements.

i can tell you the reasons why i felt more "emotionally charged" there than here, but that isn't even the main point of this discussion if i recall correctly? like this started as "have you ever hard tunnelled as town?" i gave you a link to a game. you said "no that's not the tunnelling i'm looking for". okay.

why are you now turning the conversation to whether i feel more or less emotionally charhed in this or that game?

[Datisi]

well im specifically looking for a really long tunnel - I can understand going after someone for 15-30 pages or so, its less understandable to me how you can be so focussed on me over a 130 page game.

because nothing has happened to change my mind and you refuse to die

[Datisi]

(1) cry
(2) sheep skitter

[Datisi]

skitt, how likely do you think it is that i am wrongly tunnelled here?

how likely do you think is that there's scum in {dats, duck, s_s}? i wanna talk setup specc (i promise those two sentences are related)

also when you can, i still wanna talk about this ^^

[Datisi]

what do u wanna talk about setup spec?

ok this isn't a cold hard unrefutable proof, but it is an idea i had and i wanna hear your thoughts

if forced to claim, and if scum is claiming basic VT, do you think it is likely that they're going to "low effort" just claim a random VT from the game that their actual player/role is from rather than going into their safe flavour fakeclaims? when they're claiming VT anyway?

[Datisi]

he's saying he wants to be the day's elimination, skitt

[Datisi]

if forced to claim, and if scum is claiming basic VT, do you think it is likely that they're going to "low effort" just claim a random VT from the game that their actual player/role is from rather than going into their safe flavour fakeclaims? when they're claiming VT anyway?

if it were me, probably just claim a random vt from my actual game

ok
if we assume scum claims random VT from their owngame
and assume all scum is in {dsjstr, raven, pooky}
then dsjstr/raven cannot be the scumteam

if they were the scumteam, they would both be goons from their respective games (both of those games had 2 goon scumteam)

which doesn't fit with all of fn/bg/bomb

which again leads us to scum being...

[Datisi]

this fails through the floor if you think s_s can be scum since that gaže had a scum PR but it's not a specifically strong argument to begin with anyway

i just wanted to present it since i did spend some time thinking about it

[Datisi]

i also think that but like :')
is anyone surprised i think that by this point :')

[Datisi]

i wouldn't confirm skitter's friendly neighbor as scum period lol

oh wait that doesn't work like that right

[Datisi]

hi s_s i missed you

do you have any Thought on the Game

[Datisi]

wow i didn't know i do everything the same way you'd do it excuse me i'll see myself out

[Datisi]

do you have any Thought on the Game

I feel like my 46-hour absence should answer this pretty well :X

fair enough i wouldn't wanna play this dumpsterfire either

thoughts on 3363?

[Datisi]

If I'm wrong then I'd like to be the hammer today.

can you explain why you want to be hammer today?

I have many many many town games where I am the elim in ELO, I'd like to avoid that.

note that dsjstr, who currently thinks it's datisi/raven (i think at least...?) saw me somewhat successfully convincing skitter to vote for pooky and this is like the only thing he had to say about the whole thing

though am i insane for wanting to execute him tomorrow after pooky flip?

[Datisi]

being caught lying about a vig

ok but like
i've been thinking pooky is scum waaaaaay before that vig/bomb fiasco

like if you read that huge wallpost i made two pages ago you'd know that

[Datisi]

in a worst case scenario tho i also feel like pooky is easier to solve than dsj in f5. pooky's claim also means he's like guaranteed to be alive tomorrow so there's some microscopic utility add in having him confirm skitter

how
literally how

also is anyone actually doubing skitt's alignment at this point

[Datisi]

deadass my biggest fear rn is us executing dsjstr, him flipping scum, pooky making up some arguments about "oh i was right on the game state dsj was actually scum" and y'all believe him and town ends up losing

pedit: skitt no this isn't the scum PT

[Datisi]

raven

did you read my wallpost? like genuine question

[Datisi]

i am very confused why i'm suddenly town when (1) i failed to provide an appropriate example of being in a deep tunnel as town and (2) when i'm apparently less emotionally invested in this game than in that other one where i flipped town but like

[Datisi]

deadass my biggest fear rn is us executing dsjstr, him flipping scum, pooky making up some arguments about "oh i was right on the game state dsj was actually scum" and y'all believe him and town ends up losing

pedit: skitt no this isn't the scum PT

I don't think this ever happens fyi

i have seen that man get out of pretty nasty deadline L-1s two days in a row

i would not underestimate scum!pooky

[Datisi]

cool.

[Datisi]

that was not addressed to the worst but uhhh the existance of tw/s_s scumteam is also cool

[Datisi]

that was not addressed to the worst but uhhh the existance of tw/s_s scumteam is also cool

i dont think tw/ss can be scumteam cuz would mean town would only have 1 PR

did you forget you're fakeclaiming PR?

[Datisi]

im scum with u dats, don'tcha know?

Can you two recruit me?

on it

give us like 1-3 business days pls

paperwork should be done before endgame

[Datisi]

im actually pretty worried dsj is town here

how are you townreading him ?????

also i think i'm promoting raven to maybe-town

i dont think he plays the lynch-me card here as scum

if it actually turns out to be pooky/dsjstr this is gonna be a very funny post postgame

[Datisi]

i have that effect on people yeah

[Datisi]

im actually pretty worried dsj is town here

how are you townreading him ?????

also i think i'm promoting raven to maybe-town

i dont think he plays the lynch-me card here as scum

if it actually turns out to be pooky/dsjstr this is gonna be a very funny post postgame

conversely if it's anyone but pooky/dsj whoever makes it to the last phase is going to have a really really bad time

i am already getting the alcohol for my inevitable breakdown once i realize i'm the deciding vote in f3

[Datisi]

i think he's not scum with s_s, the wrsots

[Datisi]

ok super fucking lazy catchup because i have slept like 1.7 hours in the past i don't even know how many

Let's policy elim datisi for not spamming

i was about to have words

But I want to be scum with Dats. *pouts*

<3

skitter > tw > datisi > pooky > raven > dsjstr

don't @ me

@s_s

fwiw I both think dsjstr's vote on datisi could be distancing and don't buy datisi's argument that he wouldn't have confirmed skitter as scum here

are you genuinely thinking about killing me here? lemme know when i need to start screaming again k thx

have you read any Dats’ scumgames?

I don't believe so

smuggler's port???

ok like nothing that has happened in the past two? pages makes me change my mind on anything

like i see that people want to kill dsjstr and like i'm fine with that because i do think he's scum but i just see pooky lowkey positioning for that and i fear the fate of this town

anyway yes
my brain capacity right now is no
if ya got questions shoot them

[Datisi]

Let's policy elim datisi for not spamming

im scum with u dats, don'tcha know?

Can you two recruit me?

on it

Bu I want to be scum with Dats. *pouts*

skitter > tw > datisi > pooky > raven > dsjstr

don't @ me

fwiw I both think dsjstr's vote on datisi could be distancing and don't buy datisi's argument that he wouldn't have confirmed skitter as scum here

have you read any Dats’ scumgames?

I don't believe so

raven, s_s PLAYED in that game. which is why i'm finding this funny

[Datisi]

why are those quotes there what the

whatever

pedit: oh.

[Datisi]

should i just take the plunge and vote dsjstr????

dats i really don't want you to autovote pooky tom in that case :/

skitterrrrrrrrrrr :((((((

s_s/raven is on your mind?

[Datisi]

oh no my heart doesn't let me go against both ducky and skitter

[Datisi]

btw at some point i realized that (1) the nightkills are probably going to be duck > skitter and (2) executions are probably gonna be dsjstr > pooky and like if the game doesn't end it's gonna be final 3 of s_s/raven/dats and there is not a word in the english language that can describe how much i don't want to play in that final 3

[Datisi]

*intent to hammer when we like agree to it or whatever i don't know*

also i have a counterpoint to the second bullet point but i don't know if anyone even wants to hear me say my opinion about pooky anymoe so

[Datisi]

coalition lowkey enables bussing, no? due to the fact that the "optimal strategy" is 1in 1out. besides, after pooky got locked in the coalition and aldus didn't, pooky was always dying first (since town is gonna execute on coalition until they hit red etc) so why would he ever need to defend aldus there?

unless i'm missing what defence-y stuff you're talking about but

[Datisi]

btw should i like wait for raven and tw to check in still or

like i wanna know if tomorrow is gonna be very-not-fun-lylo

also skitt you're not dying tonight

[Datisi]

btw this is officially the largest micro game on site, and we're only on day two! exciting!

[Datisi]

do yall think raven would be mad if i hammered without letting her heck in

because like i wanna see the flip but i'm going to bed kinda soon

[Datisi]

letting her check* in zzz

[Datisi]

ok uhh

if you're gonna be around, can you unvote, so i put him on E-1, because i'm about to go, and i doubt y'all are gonna wanna wait for me to wake up

[Datisi]

thank

VOTE: dsjstr

goodnight

[Datisi]

so uhh... good morning?

[Datisi]

you know

every time i think "ok this game can't get any fucking worse right"

it keeps getting worse!!!

[Datisi]

i'm a lover from 893 (only town and mafia lovers)
tw claimed bg neighbor from 930
s_s vt from 938
pooky bomb from 941
raven vt from 903

if my memory serves correctly i hope it does

[Datisi]

But uh the marked for death thing, i gotta say, i was not expecting

i can sorta see this with a bg i guess? because a conftown in lylo/mylo is also a Stronk Thing

[Datisi]

though the mark was compulsive if i recall that gams correctly... i need to go dig it up

[Datisi]

here's the game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81087

MAFIA GOON

Welcome, [player name], you are a 

Mafia Goon

.
Abilities:
- Factional communication: At any time you may talk with your partners HERE
- Mark for Death: Each night phase, you and your partner must select a single target to "mark". The marked player will be publicly be confirmed as marked at the start of the following day, and will die at the same time as the following day's lynch is achieved.

Win Condition:
- You win if at least half of the living players are mafia.

i'm assuming one scum is a "normal" goon and one scum is a "marking" goon? in a way they confirm their target as town and they die at the end of the next day rather than night, but it's a way to circumvent the bodyguard...

[Datisi]

but why use it now??? sigh i don't think i'm gonna get far trying to guess that...

[Datisi]

oh, maybe there is hope of final 3 being tw/s_s/raven instead??? i welcome that tbh

Scum might be people who:
- didnt find pooky's 'weird' claim to be that surprising on the face of it
- pushed back on me thinking this was normal-adjacent

can you talk about the first point? is that assuming scum!pooky or?

pedit: maye right because of that? liek this throws massive doubt over tw... but i still wanna believe the "partner role without a partner" theory... also why would scum!tw claim bg if he was just gonna do THIS the next day

[Datisi]

i have Thoughts on why scum might have decided to do *This* instead the normal kill but i dunno if there's merit in getting it out atm

hit me up later maybe

[Datisi]

[d) I would know better than to voluntarily enter mylo over lylo??

why is this a point? or like why is lylo so much better for scum here than mylo?

The fact that marking exists in the setup is obviously indicative of a protective role though

tw town yes?

PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY

NOPE YOU GET TO SUFFER MORE WITH THE REST OF US

[Datisi]

Datisi how are you feeling about Raven

I swear you keep answering this and yet I still don't know, it's very weird

imagine i'm currently holding a gun that i keep pointing at you then at raven then at you then at raven again because sumtin don't ADD UP

why is this a point? or like why is lylo so much better for scum here than mylo?

Because you only have to fool one townie rather than two?

/shrug, i guess
i've heard the train of thought be "i'd rather be scum in mylo than lylo since there's more misexe options open" but like (1) with conftown skitter that's not the case and (2) yeah i guess.

[Datisi]

Like if I'm scum with Pooky, I'm clearly not going for the megabus angle, so I think there's at least a chance we can both endgame. So why would I make that job way way harder while keeping alive a duck who's objectively terrifying?

is "scum!s_s fears town!duck" correct?

[Datisi]

sigh. i'm trying to analyze the "night"kill choice but... yeah i'm not sure if it matters for today anyway.

[Datisi]

Obligatorily I'll probably check my dats read but it just feels Correct `-`

i am town yes

[Datisi]

is there a possibility this mark was done because scum didn't want a s_s/raven/dats final 3? this lets tw be there instead of one of us... but to whom is that actually an advantage...?

[Datisi]

literally my first impression is that scum want me elim'd today - afaict that f3 with me instead of whoever only benefits me ?

I don't feel..... distinctly pocketed by anyone this game unless you're scum

i have.... a Theory about this actually

y'all tell me when's the time for moonlogic

skitter/dats scumteam ez game

friendly reminder

ah yes
i poisoned my scumbuddy last night
i didn't think anyone was ever gonna see through that
godfuckingdammit

[Datisi]

i mean with this mess of a game, true

i'mma let everyone check in first though before forcing people to read that

[Datisi]

sleep well!!!

[Datisi]

they... kill one of s_s/dats/raven tonight? though there may be more holes in the theory than i thought, and it's dependant on who flips today, if we even manage to get a sucmflip... it's not the most useful thing to think about at the time i guess.

[Datisi]

ah right, that's why the mark got used today.

[Datisi]

someone tell me when i'm allowed to vote pooky k thx

[Datisi]

i mean are we not looking at that right now?

[Datisi]

and uh what does it say taht pooky is trying to flip ss today then given that poe

does that push actually look like a serious attempt at anything vs knowing he's gonna die and spouting wifom

[Datisi]

bugs, is the pooping on your lawn some in-joke i'm missing or do ypu genuinely think duck is scum?

it's an in-joke and also i am very suspicious of him

ok, can you please elaborate on that

its mech thats all i really wanna say rn

i don't wanna be seen as RoLeFiShInG but if i'm not mightly curious how you have mech indication duck is scummy on day 1

@raven, do you know anything about this?

[Datisi]

this was one of the bugs’ posts that convinced me I would be repping into a town slot

elaborate?

[Datisi]

i don't understand how that explains why those posts i quoted made you sure bugs is a town slot?

[Datisi]

dsjstr has been eliminated Day 2. He was

Commie Catgirl Coalition,

Vanilla Townie

from Micro 882

.

this happened, raven.

[Datisi]

am i insane for seeing pooky/raven here? maybe i am.

[Datisi]

who said i'm questioning your dsjstr scumread? i think that was fine.

[Datisi]

those bugs' posts i quoted have nothing to do with pooky. i was rereading my notes and realized i forgot to ask you about them.

the whole game I've been insisting both bugs and s_s are town. i'm wrong on at least one. not sure why you're surprised i'm questioning you?

[Datisi]

oh, i started thinking you could be buddies with pooky during night 2. those posts speicifcally aren't related.

[Datisi]

tbf i'm just waiting the greenlight from skitter to vote you anyway

[Datisi]

I think we can rule out a Pooky/tw scumteam. Do you agree with this or not? FN isn’t enough to balance a marking scum mechanic.

So, if you’re town and I think we 100% autolose here if you aren’t, that has to point to either Pooky/SS or tw/SS because of the above and you’re still my strongest tr, so from my pov I don’t see how SS could be town unless this setup is seriously broken. But fortunately for us, we only need to figure out one scum today and whomever we think has the highest scum equity is probably our best bet since this is ELO not MELO. If we get one scumflip today, then we still have another chance.

it's more the fact that a friendly neighbor + 6vts vs 2 goons is unbalanced, but yeah i agree on ruling out tw/pooky.

is the tl;dr of this that you want to vote s_s today?

pedit: "i offered myself yesterday wah wah" l m f a o ok

[Datisi]

sigh, i played in that, give me a second.

[Datisi]

here's the game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81087

MAFIA GOON

Welcome, [player name], you are a 

Mafia Goon

.
Abilities:
- Factional communication: At any time you may talk with your partners HERE
- Mark for Death: Each night phase, you and your partner must select a single target to "mark". The marked player will be publicly be confirmed as marked at the start of the following day, and will die at the same time as the following day's lynch is achieved.

Win Condition:
- You win if at least half of the living players are mafia.

Town Bomb

• Welcome, [Player Name], you are a
  Town Bomb
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  
  
• If you are successfully shot at night (Blank Vig targets don't count), the player to shoot you will also die.
  
  
  Win condition:
  
  
• You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one town player is still alive.

here's both role PMs

[Datisi]

what are you actually asking micc again?

[Datisi]

i appreciate how we're making sure that this micro doesn't get dethroned as biggest micro game anytime soon

[Datisi]

hey, less than 100 posts left until we get to #4000!

[Datisi]

road to 10k when

[Datisi]

do newbie games count as micros technically? isn't biggest newbie like 226 pages or something?

strap in fellas we got work to do

[Datisi]

also duck do you have like thoughts or something

[Datisi]

what are you trying to sell me? s_s/tw?

[Datisi]

i could go for some popcorn right now

also if at any point you need me to explode into Obvtown Nonsense (or however you called it earlier) hmu

[Datisi]

i mean....... unless you're trying to convince me this setup is actually 9town and 0mafia and in order to win we must overthrow moderation and execute micc......... you being not!scum would mean someone else is................

[Datisi]

ok but it like
takes effort and stuff

i don't know what stonehenge means in that context but do your thing

pedit: ...how.

[Datisi]

probably not no

present a Decent case on whatever it is you're selling

no promises though

[Datisi]

I was here at D2 EoD, SS wasn’t.

why is who was or wasn't here at EoD2 indicative of alignment in any way?

[Datisi]

skitt I'm not sure what the point of 3947 is? also can you tell me why you're townreading raven off the last few pages or whatnot because i keep getting the opposite feeling :/

[Datisi]

i feel like i could literally copy-paste my pooky wallpost from yesterday only in the context of s_s case

"twisting the knife" when in the literal post before i asked what Micc's post means (because I've never seen a mod literally confirm a player as lying before)

and what was one other point, s_s seemed sure pooky was scum but then said "if pooky flips scum"?? like what

[Datisi]

except i gave intent like almost 24 hours before day ended no?

[Datisi]

SS claimed that mfd mechanic likely confirmed tw as bg but why hypothetically

couldn’t scum!duckling have used mfd mechanic to work around that?

??? literally what ???

the idea is that, if duck weren't a town bodyguard, then MFD mechanic wouldn't have a reason to exist
but it obviously exists
therefore duck is town

[Datisi]

Then his response to my questioning him about that is he wasn’t ready to end the day yet. But it was freaking close to deadline, how does that make any sense to you?

could you please quote this interaction? i tried to ctrl+f that in his iso and i can't find it

[Datisi]

Why could it also not confirm Pooky as a bomb? I’m concerned that you’re so confibiased on Pooky!scum that you’re not even considering that as a possibility.

/shrug, you're gonna have to ask s_s that. actually @s_s could you answer this please?

however i don't think s_s's alignment here is really relevant to alignments of pooky/duck? like i've been saying pooky's scum on dayplay. you could twist MFD "confirming" one or the other.

besides, ducky's claim is somehwat confirmed by mine, no?

[Datisi]

*intent to hammer when we like agree to it or whatever i don't know*

i gave intent here, and s_s did check in after that. i really don't get your point about him not voting "at deadline" when there was already intent given?

[Datisi]

You mean because he claimed neighbour? Can you find that game he referenced?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=82512

i mean, it's not about him claiming neighbour, it's about him claiming neighbour wth no neighbour... i'd be lowkey surprised if scum!duck decided to claim something like that? like i dunno. i'm a lover with no lover. it makes sense to me that there's 2 roles who usually come in pairs without a pair.

[Datisi]

i have arguments about the s_s mech thing, but i don't think it's my place to make them. that's probably better discussed once s_s is back from v/la.

[Datisi]

You mean because he claimed neighbour? Can you find that game he referenced?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=82512

i mean, it's not about him claiming neighbour, it's about him claiming neighbour wth no neighbour... i'd be lowkey surprised if scum!duck decided to claim something like that? like i dunno. i'm a lover with no lover. it makes sense to me that there's 2 roles who usually come in pairs without a pair.

to add to this, yeah i do get that there's nothing stopping a "mafia neighbor with no neighbor" from existing, but i kinda? don't know if i see it? because i feel like i'm expected to jump up at a "neighbour with no neighbour" claim and go "me too hey me too!!" and it being mafia-aligned would be... weird??

i get that this is the last game where i should be playing "outguess the mod" but...

[Datisi]

i'm saying in "normal" setups: you don't have "a lover", you have (at least) two. you don't have "a neighbor", you have (at least) two. that's why i'm lowkey thinking my role gives some credibility to duck's. because we're both missing someone.

past YoM game didn't have roles like that, no.

[Datisi]

i'm saying in "normal" setups: you don't have "a lover", you have (at least) two. you don't have "a neighbor", you have (at least) two. that's why i'm lowkey thinking my role gives some credibility to duck's. because we're both missing someone.

past YoM game didn't have roles like that, no.

I think he is likely a neighbourless neighour so could be?

that's what i'm saying? i think he's town?

In this setup, was the town bg neighbour in a hood with the mafia neighbour? I’m assuming yes?

snce that game was a Normal, yeah.

[Datisi]

yoink

pedit FUCK

[Datisi]

VOTE: micc

[Datisi]

UNVOTE: in case micc decides to troll me and count that as a vote against someone

[Datisi]

hat's why i'm lowkey thinking my role gives some credibility to duck's. because we're both missing someone.

He could easily be faking the neighbor part, all he has to do is ask Micc if there can be a single neighbor.

that's true, but he claimed to be a neighbourless neighbour before he knew what my role is. i kinda think it's unlikely he'd be fakeclaiming that?

[Datisi]

off the top of my head i remember there being a non-consecutive bodyguard in 932, which would've potentially been a better fakeclaim since then they could've also easily killed skitt last night, if they had the guts to claim from a game which was not in the safe fakeclaims pool, but... i dunno why i'm arguing this, actually. idk.

[Datisi]

reward of better fakeclaim vs risk of being caught in a lie? it's theoretical anyway. ugh.

how sure are you on scum being pooky vs ducky?

[Datisi]

oh no, making me feel bad... my one weakness...

were you scumreading her earlier? if so, can you out bullet points why (or quote if you did so already)?

[Datisi]

raven, you agree that pooky/duck aren't the scumteam based on the fact that otherwise this setup makes no sense?

[Datisi]

raven, then you do understand that you and s_s are practically confirmed scum to each other, right? (the alternative being that i'm scum here, but like... no.)

[Datisi]

ah yeah offerered himself to get lynched

because "hey guys you should maybe lynch me today lol because i probably get mislynched in lylo" is such an impossible post to make for scum!pooky

pedit: holy shit that's a lot of posts.

[Datisi]

you realize how hard of a throw that is if you guys actually listen to me and lynch me over town dsjtr if im scum?

yeah. but we didn't.

[Datisi]

Yes you guys did not listen to me - but when I made these posts - I couldn't have KNOWN that you would decide to not listen to me.

because acum never bluffs in any way shape or form... especially if your partner was haed pushing for dsjstr...

[Datisi]

VOTE: micc

I legit wish this was a serious option. Only half kidding. Srysly, how is this game not totally scumsided?

idk. bodayguard + friendly neighbour + two named townies + MFD goon (which turns out ~neutral for scum overall) makes a lot of sense to me as a setup.

[Datisi]

the only time i've seen a "lynch me i don't wanna do lylo if you'll just lynch me then" was from scum. who i called out on their bullshit. and then they killed me and town ignored my read and oooooh i'm still salty but anyway

[Datisi]

hmm... gee, i wonder...

[Datisi]

didn't you end up scumreading dsjstr at the end?

[Datisi]

Another thing, why does scum!me not make an effort to save him after he townlocked me?

Ostensibly because it would get your partner Pooky killed instead.

My predecessor tried to get him hammered. Is that not correct? Dsjstr tr me even over mech confitown. He was never ever going to vote me but in an F3 with him, me and Dats, he’d 100% vote Dats, where Pooky would 100% vote me > Dats.

"tried". i thought that was unlikely to make bugs/pooky aligned, but it's not impossible.

also, dsjstr was never making it to f3 there, so...

[Datisi]

where Pooky would 100% vote me > Dats.

wait, what's this point??? if dsjstr wasn0t getting executed d2, pooky was.

[Datisi]

But if I’m scum here, I’m gamethrowing when you and Skitter wanted to execute Pooky. However your point actually proves my argument because scum!me tries to save dsjstr and brings him to ELO for an easy misexecution.

????

how is scum!you gamethrowing by pushing town!dsjstr when me and skitter wanted to execute pooky????

[Datisi]

hi skitter pls save me

[Datisi]

But if I’m scum here, I’m gamethrowing when you and Skitter wanted to execute Pooky. However your point actually proves my argument because scum!me tries to save dsjstr and brings him to ELO for an easy misexecution.

????

how is scum!you gamethrowing by pushing town!dsjstr when me and skitter wanted to execute pooky????

Because he was never voting me. Do you disagree that it would 100% be in scum me’s interest not to at least try to save him?

if your partner is next in the execution line, yes?

[Datisi]

no

[Datisi]

if you need me to have another Obvtown Breakdown (hey that rhymes) lemme know

[Datisi]

I honestly don’t understand how you think I’m buddies with Pooky. Did bugs not try to get Pooky hammered?

it's an option i'm considering due to the fact that my previous team fell apart?

and no? bugs voted pooky to E-1. recently before that pooky was already at E-1 but koba (iirc) had unvoted him recently.

[Datisi]

It's the Obvtown Breakdown (dada-doo-doo, dada-doo-doo-doo)

[Datisi]

because?? bugs *read* that koba unvoted pooky and pooky wasn't on E-1 anymore???? like at the time we all wrote it off as "holy shit bugs almost lolhammered pooky" but like, i don't think that's outside bugs's scumrange to fake?

[Datisi]

i'm not forgetting anything?? bugs voted for pooky when pooky was at E-2, but bugs allegedly hadn't read up to where koba unvoted pooky from E-1 to E-2, and therefore would've "accidentally hammered" pooky. i'm saying that it's within the realm of possibility for a bugs/pooky scumteam to fake that?

pedit: @raven

[Datisi]

because you're claiming "hey i'm *role* but i'm not actually *role*" like how tf is that not risky?

[Datisi]

i'm not forgetting anything?? bugs voted for pooky when pooky was at E-2, but bugs allegedly hadn't read up to where koba unvoted pooky from E-1 to E-2, and therefore would've "accidentally hammered" pooky. i'm saying that it's within the realm of possibility for a bugs/pooky scumteam to fake that?

pedit: @raven

If you look at bugspray ISO - it's clear they are reacting post by post and they vote me when their reread is up to Post 476 - Koba doesn't unvote me until post 525 so bugs wouldn't have known at that point I wasn't at E-1 at that point in bugs reread tho I kind of doubt bugs was counting votes at all at that point in time.

because scum!bugs is incapable of lying about how far into their catchup they are? how far ahead they've read? especially if they have a buddy in the scum PT feeding them info?

[Datisi]

because you're claiming "hey i'm *role* but i'm not actually *role*" like how tf is that not risky?

my bomb ability is pretty useless if I claim bomb

you were asking why claiming neighbourless neighbour is risky, what does that have to do with anything?

[Datisi]

> tw claimed something about his role that is somewhat risky and could've possibly made him get executed
> i claimed the same thing about my role
> "hey it's more likely that these are both true"

lke it's not conclusive but

pedit: s i g h

[Datisi]

now it's not even being tunneled

now i'm plain not even scumhunting

my fucking god

[Datisi]

t h e y are more capable as scum than you give them credit for

@skitt, you were scum with bugs recently, do you think that's fakeable?

[Datisi]

can you explain why him claiming neighbor could possibly lead to him getting executed? like I really dont get this part

are you doing this on purpose??

like
holy shit
neighbour is a role who is in a hood and can comunicate privately with one or more other neighbours
that's the point of the role
and duck was claiming "hey i am a neighbour, a role that can communicate with another neighbour, except i am not really a neighbour becaus ei cannot communicate with anyone becuase i don't have a neighbour"
when he was already under fire
and at least someone was gonna comment "hey... that maybe.... sounds like a lie......"

[Datisi]

Pooky nearly hammered by Bugspray accidentally,

where did this happen again?

Datisi

did you really think I wanted to evict Bugspray because he's been awol in 2 games with me and he was town in both those games but this game he's not awol? Like in what universe is that a good enough reason to evict someone?

my pronoun is they/them
VOTE: pooky

[Datisi]

if you need me to have another Obvtown Breakdown (hey that rhymes) lemme know

can u hit me with the cliffnotes plz?

cliffnotes of what? why i'm town?

[Datisi]

Since we are only playing with 1 role from each game, it doesn't make any sense to me why a neighbor or a lover would have a neighbor/lover partner

because that's the point of the role???????

am i speaking english

is this a dream

[Datisi]

that's not what i meant by that, skitt
it was more of a "if you want to have a real time chat about the game or whatnot hit me up" because as scum i'm Tremendously Bad and Stressed at real-time interactions and i have faith you'll be able to read my alignment from that

[Datisi]

i'm sorry what are you asking?

[Datisi]

except it wasn't a "neighborhood game", it was a normal setup that happened to have neighbours in it and it was a conscious choice to include it

and ~setup synergy~ and the fact that neighbourless neighbour is a gutsy claim = duck probably town on mech (this is not conclusive ik ik)

[Datisi]

t h e y are more capable as scum than you give them credit for

@skitt, you were scum with bugs recently, do you think that's fakeable?

tbh, i was not super impressed with their scumrange, and did not get the vibe that anything they did was like premeditated or that they thought about how to further scum wincon

so much as doing random things on a dime

but i don't think they would bus their partner like that either

/shrug, yesterday you said you don't think bugs "bussing" pooky like that is conclusive to mark off raven/pooky