Mini 1320--Redwall Mafia: Spirit Lore (The Sun Has Set)

[PeregrineV]

In

1832

Columbus Cat sailed the ocean blue.

confirm

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Junpei

Scummy confirmation number.

And to answer your question, know when to follow your nose and when to use your brain. Playing wholly by gut or wholly by logic doesn't seem to work.

[PeregrineV]

Junpei, the only reason I can think of you not voting BV is that you're scum and you care what the other players think in constructing that wagon.

In fact, I'll:

Unvote.

Vote: BV

Can you explain this to me in more detail?? Would Junpei be scum not wanting to be seen on the town-BV wagon, or would Junpei be scum not wanting to vote for scum-BV?

[PeregrineV]

Junpei, the only reason I can think of you not voting BV is that you're scum and you care what the other players think in constructing that wagon.

In fact, I'll:

Unvote.

Vote: BV

Can you explain this to me in more detail?? Would Junpei be scum not wanting to be seen on the town-BV wagon, or would Junpei be scum not wanting to vote for scum-BV?

Either. More to the point, I feel Junpei was asking me: "Why would I, as a person, not vote BV right now?" (We'll pretend that I didn't vote BV and neither did Junpei.)

There is

no

protown reason

not

to be voting BV

if

you

don't

have any harder suspicion. There is nothing BV's done that reeks of Town or Town play. In fact, Junpei pointed this out to me, and I had to reread what BV said--which is never a good sign. If someone drops an obv-Town tell in front of me, I usually cling to it.

So, the only reason you wouldn't vote BV at the moment (ignoring the fact it's L-2 and I want BV to squirm and not end the day prematurely) is you were afraid of the accountability storm of being on that wagon. If you're town, there's not much to be afraid of being accountable for your actions.

I did miss another reason for not voting BV that is serious and valid. You're BV.

NM, I saw post 44 but missed post 40. Take out post 40 and 44 is way scummier.

[PeregrineV]

Junpei's scum in hiding, but not feeling the Newman thing.

Vote: Papum's Rat

[PeregrineV]

@Zdenek- which is better, a vote for Papum's Rat who is here, or Junpei who is not?

Answer: They are both scum, so it doesn't matter!

However, since Papum's is here, maybe there will be discussion.

[PeregrineV]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

Still eyeballing Junpei and the Rat.

[PeregrineV]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

Still eyeballing Junpei and the Rat.

Thanks for the useless post which confirms that you aren't closely reading the game at all.

Oh, but I am.

[PeregrineV]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

RTFT kthxbai

If you cbf to do so, I guess I can sum it up with post 120:

Because people who are familiar with MS.net know that large non-lynching wagons spring up on D1. They know that these not-so-serious wagons will die down once discussion has run it's course. Considering that Newman has a year of experience here at MS.net, he knows that this is likely the case here as well. Experienced scum has motivation to come to the "aid" of someone on one of these kinds of wagons because it could make them look better and more protown. Experienced town has no reason to try to make themselves look better.

I won't go for the obvious, but Newman can only look protown for defusing the BV wagon if BV flips town. Since we don't really know that (except you seem to), how does Newman gain any protown points for "defusing" the wagon?

[PeregrineV]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

Still eyeballing Junpei and the Rat.

Really? I just answered Junpei's question about a succinct case on Newman in the middle of 127.

Yes, you are saying that if BV is scum, then Newman is his scumbuddy trying to protect him, and if BV is town, then Newman is scum trying to look townie.
So what would town Newman do if he didn't want the day to end early?

And I don't really care if you answer the questions out loud, since my point is that the arguments are not enough to convince me to vote for Newman.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV, don't act like you noticed his succinct case all this time but just didn't accept it; you asked for something that I specifically asked for not long ago at all and are now trying to pretend like you knew I had asked.

Well, I was hoping there was something I missed. Otherwise, I am seeing that three people are voting Newman because he didn't want someone at L-2.

Does that sum up vijay2vasandani's case?
Does that sum up pappums rat's case?
Does that sum up bv310's case?

And I did see where people have expanded on it when they did. And I addressed those in my posts above.

And since you are not voting Newman, do you agree with the case(s) on him?

[PeregrineV]

I liked the Junpei vote better than the Rat vote.

Unvote.
Vote: Junpei

[PeregrineV]

Unvote
Vote: PeregrineV

Lets take a look at his content so far. His first vote was for Junpei here:

Vote: Junpei

Scummy confirmation number.

And to answer your question, know when to follow your nose and when to use your brain. Playing wholly by gut or wholly by logic doesn't seem to work.

So this is an RVS vote for having a "scummy confirmation number". He never gives any indication of having an actual scumread on Junpei at any point.

He later votes me here because he's "not feeling the Newman thing":

Junpei's scum in hiding, but not feeling the Newman thing.

Vote: Papum's Rat

He then goes on to defend Newman without really talking at all about who he suspects (no scumhunting with all posts being about defending Newman).

In his last post, he switched back to Junpei because he "liked" that vote better, despite it being an RVS vote and having never stated any reasoning behind suspecting him:

I liked the Junpei vote better than the Rat vote.

Unvote.
Vote: Junpei

PeregrineV is posting contentless garbage in defense of Newman while not scumhunting at all. Lets lynch this scumbag.

Scumreads so far are PV and Newman, with Junpei a fairly distant third.

Paprums claim: 1-shot delayed OMGUS voter

That's cool. Please vote Junpei as I bus him to death.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV, your next post will be an explanation of your vote on me.

Greetings Korlash, quadz08.

Sure.

1.

VOTE: Junpei

Seems to be very apathetic, unlike him.

2.

Vote: bv310

Clearly we need to bandwagon more.

3.

Why in the hell is everyone ignoring my points about PeregrineV?

hiplop why the flip flopping? What made you suspect Junpei more than PV?

Fine;

vote PeregrineV

4.

I'm pretty wary of Junpei and his questioning everything method since he employed it as scum in Red Dead Redemption Mafia.

1. This is 100% true, and a very accurate use of the word to compare this play to normal (town) Junpei play.
2. I've never heard you say this or anything like it as town.
3. Once again you as town do not say "fine" and then vote anyone.
4. This I know less about since I didn't play that game, but am including it here for completeness sake.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, is OMGUS a scumtell?
Why am I scum (may as well reiterate this)?

Who else is scum and why?

Not always, but it gives scum the ability to vote someone without haveing to explain or defend it.
Answered above.
Papums Rat, maybe.

[PeregrineV]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

Still eyeballing Junpei and the Rat.

Really? I just answered Junpei's question about a succinct case on Newman in the middle of 127.

Yes, you are saying that if BV is scum, then Newman is his scumbuddy trying to protect him, and if BV is town, then Newman is scum trying to look townie.
So what would town Newman do if he didn't want the day to end early?

And I don't really care if you answer the questions out loud, since my point is that the arguments are not enough to convince me to vote for Newman.

Two things.
First: he would fucking say he doesnt like L-2 because he was afraid of a quicklynch.
Second: he wouldn't be afraid of L-2 causing the day early because like Pappum's Rat says, here in MS we build bandwagons as pressure. After spending a year on site he should know that by now. His fear of a quicklynch is unfounded.

On the off-chance a quicklynch does occur a townie would be ecstatic because there is no town intent for one thus it is a chance to catch scum.

Thus there is no town intent for being scared about L-2.

No questions here, so you just want me to disagree? OK.

First: He didn't use those exact words, so it couldn't have been the reason?

Second: Yes, but not always.

And town intent is for a lynch of scum. Scum intent is for a lynch of town. The quicker the lynch, in general, the more chance it will be of town.
Why?
Because if you remove the factor of speed of lynch entirely, the chances of a mislynch are the same fast or slow.

Then, the only difference is that fast lynches reduce discussion in the thread, which is our primary means of catching scum.

tl:dr- quicklynches bad cuz they reduce discussion.

[PeregrineV]

@Junpei- It started as gut, then a feeling, then you asked for reasons behind it. Since feelings are not free-form, I looked for the posts that engendered those feelings.

And we've played two games, and in both your posting was not the same as it is here. If you want to link to some completed scum games, I'll be happy to compare your scum meta with my opinions.

@Korlash- Never lazy, which is why he is suspect to me.

[PeregrineV]

No time tonight. Maybe tomorrow after work.

[PeregrineV]

Catching up today, will post when I reach this post.

[PeregrineV]

Wow, that was fun. :no sarcasm:

@junpei- Wow, I have never seen you tunnel like this. Can you link me to *any* game where you day 1 posts called for the lynch of a single player all day?
Also, since it seems to be lost in your admiration for my scumminess, please give opinions on the other 8 players.

And am I summing up your case correctly in saying that "PeregrineV voted Junpei for bad reasons."? Because if this is it,

Peregrine asked for a case on Newman when I had JUST asked that same question and received and answer on that page.

Then his next post shows that he didn't even carefully read the case on Newman, that or he massively strawmanned it.

then I'll rephrase what I said before.
"I find all of those reasons to be invalid and/or not strong enough reasons to vote for Newman. Not only is someone making assumptions of a player's meta (experience, ability, style) to do it, they are also basing those assumptions on thier own interpretation of SITE META."

And said that way, it makes even less sense to me.

Also, since it seems to be lost in your admiration for my scumminess, please give opinions on the other 8 players.

Off-topic: I have other games to catch up on, but I will come back periodically.

Also, wagon viability is about equal for everyone, so pushing Rat or me as "the choices" for day1 seems disingenuous.

Current unofficial
hiplop (1): iStark
iStark (1): vijay2vasandani
Junpei (2): PeregrineV, hiplop
PeregrineV (2): pappums rat, Junpei
pappums rat (2): Korlash, riceballtail
Korlash (1): quadz08
quadz08 (1): Zdenek

[PeregrineV]

@Kor-Not much right now, tbh.

@Junp- OK

Unvote.
Vote: Papums Rat

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV opportunistically voted me (I had a vote on me, more than his other vote, hiplop had just voted him) and upon further inspection, he had no reason to do so other than 'gut'. The Peregrine I remember doesn't rely completely on gut. Peregrine never expressed gut read, if anything implying a read based on evidence given his past posts not being of gut nature. Peregrine then came up with explanation for the vote from a number of days ago only after explanation was requested by me (by the way, 3 of the 4 posts he cites for finding me suspicious came AFTER he voted me, and all four of them are based on meta when we've only played in one game together). He isn't scumhunting; furthermore he has shown that he isn't reading the thread at all closely, missing many apparent details.

Would this be it?

[PeregrineV]

P-Edit: Just because I disagree with someone, doesn't mean they aren't making good points.

Considering that scum can "make good points," I'd probably have to be in agreement with someone's points for me to think they are town.

I think quadz is probably town at this point.

That's cute. Do you think you could say why?

I think Korlash is blathering scum, I still think Quadz is scum, and no other lynch excites me. I'll move my vote to prevent a no lynch, but one of these two would be preferred.

To answer the inevitable question, yes, I think they are mutually bussing.

Do you have anything to support this? Like bv-ghostlin or korlash-quadz (or any combo thereof) connections?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, I don't want to lay out every read I have on every player in this game, I don't view value in it. If you want to know my read on a specific player feel free to ask, but you better have a good reason for asking for the read.

Well, I can't see where you've given them on any other players, so you pick any three you want, pretend like your scumhunting them, and tell me what you think.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, I don't want to lay out every read I have on every player in this game, I don't view value in it. If you want to know my read on a specific player feel free to ask, but you better have a good reason for asking for the read.

Well, I can't see where you've given them on any other players, so you pick any three you want, pretend like your scumhunting them, and tell me what you think.

Name 3 players, and I'll give you a read on them.

Why aren't you playing like you played in Cyclic Experiment II? Why are you implying use of gut?

pedit: Why is a quad lynch so much harder to achieve than a pappums' lynch?

The post is gone, but I find that a combo works best for me. So now instead of ignoring my gut, I use it to guide my to the eternal "why?"
I look for what made my gut ding me.
At the same time, I look for the normal logic stuff too, such as scumtells, VCAs, how players react/respond to each other.

Internet Stranger tunnels. That's his thing. I've never seen you do it. So if you have those links that will help.

And I pick istark, v2v and RBT.

[PeregrineV]

Korlash – Ridiculous amounts of postings. He’s just as useless and unreadable as hiplop, for exactly the opposite reason. It’s a whole bunch of data, and almost zero information. Not to mention, I don’t understand how he can post a million things, and still not know basic information (yes, in fact, Newman

was

asked to present his meta) that relates directly to his cases / opinions. As I mentioned before, I don’t believe than town-BV would have placed a vote on Newman when he did, due to how weak the reasoning behind that wagon is. Scumread, and anti-town at the very best. Excellent lynch candidate.

Unvote
Vote Korlash

It's more efficient.

So now Korlash joins the 2 vote club alongside Papums, me, and Junpei.
Whats your next move, quadz?

Hrk. This game is ridiculous; I can't make heads or tails of Korlash, and Junpei is basically the only person contributing regularly.

VOTE: PeregrineV

This is the best wagon of those with more than 1 vote on them. We need to lynch.

If a whole bunch of people want to jump onto Korlash, though, I'll be back in a heartbeat. Just sayin'.

[PeregrineV]

Oh dammit I totally missed that. Thanks, Peregrine.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Korlash

You missed the point....

[PeregrineV]

For a second I was wondering if anyone can count.
And since there were two vote counts on the same page and we were all bitching about a possible no-lynch, I don't believe any of it.

[PeregrineV]

Sorry, work is a time suck, but they pay.

And I got a school gig I'm also doing.

@Junp- are you a double voter?

Day One, Vote Count the Eleventh

iStark (1): vijay2vasandani
Junpei (1): hiplop
PeregrineV (1): pappums rat,

Junpei

pappums rat (2): riceballtail, PeregrineV
Korlash (4): quadz08, Zdenek,

Junpei

, Korlash
hiplop (1): iStark

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch.

The deadline is currently set for 3:00 pm PDT (GMT-7) on Friday, April 6.

As ever, any questions or concerns, please let me know.

[PeregrineV]

Day One, Vote Count the Second

Zdenek (1): riceballtail
Ghostlin (2): HellloooNewman, Zdenek

bv310

(4):

Junpei

, hiplop, vijay2vasandani,

Ghostlin

Junpei (1): PeregrineV
riceballtail (1): pappums rat
pappums rat (1): bv310

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch.

The deadline is currently set for 5:00 pm PDT (GMT-7) on Tuesday, April 3.

Junpei is V/LA through Sunday.

Prodding PeregrineV.

As ever, any questions or concerns, please let me know.

Day One, Vote Count the Eleventh

iStark (1): vijay2vasandani
Junpei (1): hiplop
PeregrineV (1): pappums rat, Junpei
pappums rat (2): riceballtail, PeregrineV
Korlash (4):

quadz08

, Zdenek,

Junpei

, Korlash
hiplop (1): iStark

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch.

The deadline is currently set for 3:00 pm PDT (GMT-7) on Friday, April 6.

As ever, any questions or concerns, please let me know.

I like doing it after flips, but will try some day1.

So first I notice is Junpei & Ghostlin(quadz) are voting bv310(Korlash) again, just like at the start of the game. Why is that? Are your reasons the same? Full circle and all that jazz?

2nd thing I noticed is bv3109lorlash) is back to 4 votes? Can past and current voters explain that?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine: Keen eye; the mod seems to have made a mistake.

Mod, you seem to have made a mistake with the VC there.

Korlashs' play at the end riddles me; I'm almost certain that at the top of this page he thinks he has a chance to get out of this, meaning this is one big bluff. But to be gone till after deadline? Well, I'm willing to call the bluff; regardless of his alignment, I'd like to know what his full mentality was postgame about this.

Vote Papums Rat instead of Korlash.

@Korlash- self-voting is a no-no.

[PeregrineV]

@Junpei- Then also explain how you started voting bv310 for the reason of ___________________ and are now voting him again (effectively) for ____________________________.

Because, you know, in your vote, you never gave a reason.

[PeregrineV]

@Papums- Self-voting is scummy because you know if you are town that you are TOWN

100%

. Aside from Masons, nothing else gives that high a percentage for knowing a players alignment. So voting for someone you know

100%

is town is.....SCUMMY!

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Korlash

deadline.

Is about 6 hours away, so yeah....

[PeregrineV]

What? That's a pretty arbitrarily constricting rule don't you think? Sigh, I wish that mods who have weird nuances like this would do a better job of expressing it. Not blaming DarthYoshi or anything just saying...

Well..

RBT
V2V
Peregrine

Of this three, we need two votes? Well, Zdenek just got a lot more suspicious along with one person on this list.

Peregrine is online, so there's that.

Yes, but I am of the opinion that scum are already on the lynch, since a No lynch means a harder chance for them to win.

But, I also think that no-lynches should be planned strategically, not fallen into.

Not sure if it counts, but

Vote: Korlash

[PeregrineV]

HI

VOTE: Korlash

I am a modified rolecop; my role gives me the ability to see the abilities any player's role PM states. One of Korlash's abilities allows him to decide during confirmation stage to be either NK-immune or return Redwall-aligned to investigations.

WOOOOOOO

And his other abilities?

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, sounds like a GF to me.

No to quadz claiming today.

Vote: Korlash

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.

Full claim would probably only be flavor, so it doesn't matter to me. It'll matter more once we have a Korlash flip.

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, sounds like a GF to me.

No to quadz claiming today.

Vote: Korlash

Unvote.

Full claim would probably only be flavor, so it doesn't matter to me. It'll matter more once we have a Korlash flip.

What made you change your mind, and what was your initial objection to quadz fullclaiming?

It's day2, and if he full claims 1-shot, for example, then scum wont be worried.

Let them worry if he is telling the truth.

I unvoted so I can hear all and both sides. Unless you think they are both true?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.

Full claim would probably only be flavor, so it doesn't matter to me. It'll matter more once we have a Korlash flip.

Why did you unvote? You've been acting real strange during my wagons... >.> what is up with that?

Scumpal.

Mass flavor claim makes just a little sense. I thought someone said there were so many characters in this series that it'd be simple to fake a flavor claim? Besides, it could hint at peoples' roles. We are NOT doing any mode of claiming. The only one claiming is Quadz.

So you believe quadz and disbelieve Korlash.
And if you believe quadz, why should he claim?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.

Full claim would probably only be flavor, so it doesn't matter to me. It'll matter more once we have a Korlash flip.

Why did you unvote? You've been acting real strange during my wagons... >.> what is up with that?

It's because he's scum, of course.

Korlash, I dont think you have claimed your name yet, please do so.

quadz has already claimed his role, he needs to fullclaim, there is no reason why he shouldnt.

Also quadz, do you stand behind your statement that we could have multiple people with similar roles?

So, you believe Quadz results

AND

you want Korlash to claim his name (why?)

AND

you want Quadz to fullclaim everything?

There is a reason he shouldn't. If you believe him, why should he, again?

[PeregrineV]

I never said I believed Quadz's results.

I wanted Korlash to claim his name because it is a theme game, and people may be able to decipher his probability of being scum if they know his name (or fakeclaim if that were the case). All things considered, I find his nameclaim believable and wish I had paid more attention to it yesterday Right now I think Quadz has a better chance at being scum than Korlash.

So, I-scum unvoted Korlash the town lynch as scum, why?

And why would scum-quadz attempt soemthing that would surely be counterclaimed?

Your really are all over there with your "reads".

@Quadz- Why did you pick Korlash to investigate?

@Junpei- thats not what you said. You were voting Korlash, and said scumpal. What else did you mean?

[PeregrineV]

And why would scum-quadz attempt soemthing that would surely be counterclaimed?

... Well getting me mislynched while simultaneously outing the real cop sounds like a rather good days worth of work... In my humble opinion that is. Plus, he claimed 'ability cop' which is very unlikely to be countered by anything other than a 'real cop' which can easily be argued why both could exist in the same game.

Why would town-quadz have claimed at all? Seriously, what 'cop' outs himself to lynch a player

that was lynched the previous day

??!?!? It was fairly certain a wagon would form on me immediately and almost assured that I would be lynched... So why would any town reveal themselves unless it became apparent it was needed? none. No town power role would do that.

I probably would. An ability cop would be great and useful only if nailing a "scum" ability. Otherwise, I'm assuming a VT and goon would have the same ability, and give no alignment info away.

"Choosing to appear Redwall-aligned" is a scum ability.
But so is night killing, and he never mentioned that.

[PeregrineV]

He also never mentions the ability to talk to a scum partner. Obviously I can see why this would be left out, too great a risk of accidentally revealing partner, but it still would be an 'ability' of the scum.

Traitor scum wouldn't have QT ability. And it's a given. And it can't be RB. The NK can be.

I think both this and the killing thing are irrelevant though. Wouldn't you agree "ability" refers to role specific actions, not alignment specific? Thus, a vanilla town wouldn't reveal "ability to vote" which would distinguish it from the mafia Goon, which normally isn't given that as a mentioned 'ability'.

No, an ability is conventionally something that a player has if they are not Vanilla. Goon is the scum equivalent of Vanilla. Everyone has a vote, except those that don't. That lack of a vote may even be considered an ability.

Back to game relevant things, a power role is a power role regardless of what they do. Him outing himself like he did is still illogical and I don't like that you just attempted to give him a possible out to the question.

I just pointed out a flaw in his claim. How is that an out?

Vote: Quadz

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.

There you have it. Who is lying?

[PeregrineV]

[r

that was lynched the previous day

??!?!? It was fairly certain a wagon would form on me immediately and almost assured that I would be lynched...

Based on this, and the quadz result, I will vote Korlash.

However, if Korlash is town, then quadz is scum.

If Korlash is scum, then quadz is scum or town.

@Quadz- You need to use your rolecoppiness on a random person, who will verify that you correctly named their abilities. This won't completely clear you as town, but it will help verify the veracity of your ability.
If the same person you cop dies, I will suspect you as scum who killed them so your results could not be verified.
This only applies if Korlash flips scum.

Vote: Korlash

[PeregrineV]

even quadz posts seem to have him forget he has a guilty on korlash

it just doesnt feel right, almost certain korlash is truthful in this case

So you think quadz is lying? That will get him lynched if Korlash flips town.

[PeregrineV]

In no way official

Korlash (4): quadz08, Zdenek, iStark, PereV
quadz08 (4): Korlash, hiplop, Junpei, RBT

Not Voting (1): pappums rat

Alright Mr Rat, which will it be? And a why, if you please.

[PeregrineV]

@Quadz- You need to use your rolecoppiness on a random person, who will verify that you correctly named their abilities. This won't completely clear you as town, but it will help verify the veracity of your ability.
If the same person you cop dies, I will suspect you as scum who killed them so your results could not be verified.
This only applies if Korlash flips scum.

Oh god dammit....

fuckety fuck fuck.

I am, in fact, one-shot. I missed that every time I read my damned role PM until right now when you asked about it specifically. I didn't read carefully enough, and that's entirely my fault. fuckfuckfuck.

Welp. So much for my action being confirmable. :/

dude....

unvote

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Korlash

I can see town giving up thier role, etc. if they caught scum.

I can't see scum outing themselves to kill one townie, especially not in a game this small.

[PeregrineV]

All I want to say is:

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV attempts spirit connection w/ Junpei

Junpei kills PeregrineV (successful)

Boy, I really misread those signals!

[PeregrineV]

Great game DY! Thanks for modding it!

Also, pre-in me for your next one.

[PeregrineV]

JUNPEI!!!!