Newbie 1390 -- Game Over

[ryhx]

Greetings all, its midnight here (past actually) and I've already spent the last two nights playing mafia so I'll have to do my catching up tomorrow.

In the meantime,

UNVOTE:

. Cheers!

[ryhx]

Finally caught up. My wall of text, as promised.

best

:
His posts read more newb town then scum to me. He was lurking even after being coached in thread not to lurk. He's still not voting depite a lot of prompting that that's very scummy. I feel like if he was newb scum he'd be trying harder to not be so scummy. Either way, I'm willing to let him live a little longer to see him post more.

cabd

:
I didn't have a problem with his fake out at the start, but his jumping on other people for fairly small things while not following through (he never did tell us what he was going for with the activity tell exactly) with anything (except guyett) along with the way he picks at one player at a time gives me bad vibes. Also I dislike anyone who calls upon their meta as proof. Potential scum.

derivan

:
His posting style reads weird and I can see why some think he's scummy. The somewhat mechanical play is odd as is the repeated emphasis on how he is being logical about his reads. I feel like he is a newbie town going through a playbook though, and his scumhunting, though maybe misled by flawed logic at times, is genuine. Needs to post more though.

fegelein

:
this may be dragging up dead horses to flog, but i though his gambit in rvs seemed scummier then cabd's. Firstly, the way he piggy-backed on cabd's gambit, secondly (as pointed out by goodmorning), the really poor execution of it. How was he expecting for an L-2 with just 'semi-serious'? How was that supposed to trigger a reaction from Derivan? And giving up?
It was a poor gambit and it seems more like scum trying to stir shit rather then scumhunting from town. Though he has excused it away as burnout, I will have to go back and check whether he's executed better gambits in other games before I take his word on it. I'll leave his as potential-scum until I do.

goodmorning

: Maybe its the nature of an IC, has a feel of more commentor then participant. I don't have a good read on her, but please answer this: up to 185 you've mostly been on Feg's case, but then you suddenly throw out a vote for cabd with no explanation and cabd hadn't posted anything since your previous post. Why and what happened? You continuing implying cabd's scummy in your subsequent posts but you never give any reason for it.

guyett

: the newbie who's not really a newbie. That he feels the need to keep mentioning that he's town is pinging me. He is also constantly badgering people to post entire read lists, which is a little annoying, and maybe he's scum trying to feel up other people's positions. Because he's mostly been non-committal about his reads, see 144 where he basically ended with 'but it could be anyone'.

jasonwazza

: I don't think his aggressive play is indicative of anything other then style. Don't have much to say other than as a whole his posting feels pro-town and that's where I'm putting him.

thegarantula

:
He's really combing posts to find scum, I'm in agreement that this guy is town.

tl;dr

: guyett, fegelein, goodmorning, cabd are on my scum list in no particular order.
But the more I think about it, the more I want to know what's up between goodmorning and cabd so

VOTE: goodmorning

I'll like to hear your case on cabd, thanks.

[ryhx]

Other question: Why do we leave guys at L-1? Isn't it too easy for scum to quick hammer him? Especially with 5 days left on the clock, there's plenty of time for voting still. But it seems a common thing to do here.

[ryhx]

If someone got quickhammered without being allowed to respond I think the voter would be pretty quickly bandwagoned the next day, if even only out of policy.

Makes sense, though part of me still feels like 'but what if by then its too late' and would seem better to not leave that up to scum (or dumb newb). But I don't want to start some kind of debate about this here, thanks for answering my question

Spoiler: @Guyett:

ryhx - nice logical post, some of it is reiterating what others have said and some of it is new. Its refreshing to get a new point of view. More in depth on some people and a bit light on others.

Well, you can't be the first to post everything. Anyway, this is more game theory but its my undertanding that its better not to overly elaborate on who is really town, so I err that way.

regarding your comment on me being non-committal is me just being realistic, I've said who I suspect is scum but in reality the scum aren't always the people who come across as the scummiest. some people are very good at hiding their true alignment and others are town just playing a bad game. Asking for readings is useful as they can give away scumtells.

I understand your point, my point is that such things need not be said. Basically the sum of your post said 'i think A, B & C, but oh wait it could be any one of the other guys too because', which strikes me as either content masquerading or just covering your ass by not committing. But I'll concede your subsequent posts are better.

You made a very interesting observation regarding Best at L-1 and why he hasn't been hammered.... If he is town scum would have hammered him by now unless 2 of the 4 people voting for him are scum. If he is scum then the other scum could have already voted for him to blend in or they are unwilling to hammer him. I'm leaning towards him being scum as if he was town he'd be gone by now imo.

I wasn't making any such point actually.

Spoiler: @goodmorning:

It's not really IC-me, just me in general. Defense is kind of a specialty of mine, and at times I tend to neglect my offense. It's a bad habit.

I think its just the mechanics posts that ICs make. Makes you feel distant and the impression of posting without posting about the game itself.

Let me try it this way: it's not about anything Cabd did in the interim, it's about Feg.
Or in other words, it's not that Cabd went down the ladder, it's that Feg went a bit up.

Oh. I'm only capable of thinking in one direction :/ And I didn't think about your points made on Cabd before your vote, only the lack of after your vote.

You're not a verbose, wall-of-text scumhunter kinda gal, I like that (because its different). But I'm a dense sort of person, I see now your vote on Cabd, but then could you elaborate what about Feg's one post made him go up the ladder?

@Best: Really...do something, anything. Vote your scummiest.

[ryhx]

@JasonWuzza

Why do you say that there's no reason to crumb?

Because, there is no reason to crumb as a PR right now.

Day 1, you have no extra info, so there is no need for a crumb, and a crumb can just as easily let scum know who you are.

If you crumb it's basically "Hey scum come kill me"

Isn't one of the points of crumbing your role for you to point back to later as something to back up your role claim. In which case you should crumb day 1 for the strongest effect.

But

bestwillcui

if you haven't laid your crumbs already there's no point for you to do so now.

1) People already think you're scum. Crumbing now doesn't make your town claim any more believable.

2) You just announced that you're going to crumb. Everyone is going to be looking out for it and the scum will very likely find it. Its for the same reason why people are telling you not to roleclaim yet, we don't want role information to be revealed to scum unnecessarily. Bread crumbing now will be worse than role claiming.

How is that a town slip?

I'm guessing Cabd means specifically that it is a PR slip. Because PRs breadcrumb their roles.
I personally would disagree with that assessment because I think he'd have brought it up sooner if he were.

Vanilla townies can breadcrumb too. I don't think this is definitive.

Newb-Townie gets to L-1 with no other case in sight from their POV. They ask if they can roleclaim and then people tell them nobody has declared intent to hammer. They look for alternative ways to claim without claiming. That smells pretty fucking town to me.

That smells like desperation to me, which is more scummy smelling than town.

I still have a too newb to be scum feeling coming off from best though.

[ryhx]

Guyett

Spoiler: First Part of ISO up to post 130ish

First thing of major note:

Post 79 claims lack of vote is due to “trying to read people” but how does one pressure people without a vote?

Post 89:
Darq-Light Scumread
Best- Lots of stuff said about him, but no actual read given
Derivan- Not a read either, just fluff
Garg- Town read
Jason- No actual read given
Cabd- “a bit of a Scumread”
Reg- No actual read other than “posts make sense”
Goodmorning- unexplained townread
So his initial reads list gives no read for 4 players, but posts fluff about them instead.
92 we find finally a vote (for me but whatever)
100
Guyett, is posting absolutely nothing of any value town-leaning? Because that’s what you’re saying seemingly in your first part of post 100
Guyett as of post 110 has re-iterated that he is town like…. Let me count actually…
Post 77
Post 100
Post 110
So three times so far. I’ll keep a running total.

guyett: the newbie who's not really a newbie. That he feels the need to keep mentioning that he's town is pinging me. He is also constantly badgering people to post entire read lists, which is a little annoying, and maybe he's scum trying to feel up other people's positions. Because he's mostly been non-committal about his reads, see 144 where he basically ended with 'but it could be anyone'.

Thanks for expounding on my points

[ryhx]

post 205 linking to your meta for how to tell if you are town or scum... look back at my reads on Jason, It would be very easy for you to point out how you play as town and as scum, then play like you would as town despite being scum.

Cabd I also played scum in this game
http://www.footballforums.net/forums/sh ... m-Mafia-II
I replaced into it and played bodyguard

You're calling out Cabd for playing meta after you pull out your meta?

[ryhx]

there is a difference, his one was unasked for and he was using it to show why he wasn't scum. The first time I posted mine it was a link to a game that I ran on a different forum, I wasn't defending myself or anything, just posting it if people wanted a rout around there. Last night Cabd was reading through 1 game that I played scum as there, I linked him to another and then linked him to my ISO's as the forum is a bit different there than here for bringing them up.
Not that it really mattered as in the first game I got found out when I claimed to be a miller and the mod accidentally worded the death story of the player who was actually miller to make it look like there was only 1. The other time one of my scumbuddies bussed all of us and won the game for us.

Fair enough.

Darq - Hasn't really posted too much but has been online and seems to be lurking. I find this activity suspicious. I'd watch out for the quiet ones who sit back and let the others who may actually be townies tie themselves in knots heaping suspicions on themselves.
bestwillcui - Another lurker. I suspect one of the mafia will be one of our lurkers and another will probably be either the most active or the second most active poster who spends their rime dodging suspicion and my bus their partner as a technique to hide his/her scummyness.
Derivan - seems to be approaching this quite logically which I approve of. That being said I dont agree with the suspicions of Fegelein and Jason for trying to vote of the most experienced as a scummy move. Just because you have been around for a while doesnt make you a good player automatically. I think it was more voting for them to get a feeling on their reactions and then compare it to other games they've played.
TheGarantula - Another logical player. I would tend to agree with most of what you have posted. Getting a town read for the time being.
JasonWazza - getting very defensive is a bit of a red flag but I like this spat between Jason and Derivan
Cabd - Active until people called him up on his 'joke' and then disappeared for a few hours to think things over? Tbh I'm getting a bit of a scum read here. I agree with the bussing comment that someone made.
Fegelein - semi experienced player and your later non burnout related posts make sense.
goodmorning - getting a strong town read of goodmorning

Now if you read the reads post and compare it to what Cabd gives you'll find a few problems.

As much as the Best read is "Fluff" it's an implied light scum read, but nice avoiding that.

Derivan seems like more of a light town read that's implied.

My read, seems like an implied light scum read

I think Cabd is trying to make it seem like Guy's scummy when his not.

UNVOTE: Bestwillcui
VOTE: Cabd

I think you're being far too generous with Guyett's reads, I wouldn't consider any of those reads 'implied'. All those three reads basically said could be scummy could be town, not to mention the end of the whole read post. I would agree with Cabd's characterisation, he didn't misrepresent it.

UNVOTE: goodmorning

I need to reconsider

Fixed quote tag. Preview is your friend! ~~NS

[ryhx]

Nobody Special, can we get the deadline updated in the OP please

Decided

VOTE: GUYETT

The OTT reaction to being ISO'd (halfway even, without much new information) screams panicked scum. Puts up an ISO that mostly restates what happens and has some specious reasoning to it thats really reaching.

post 292 asking for an extension due to the outage.... as GM pointed out she did this in another game while playing as scum
post 294 not a townslip.... covering for your scum buddy?
post 300 Eh scum dont know the exact setup but instead of a 1 in 6 guess they have a 1 in 2 guess of what set up it is. Those odds are nice for fake claiming a role via breadcrumbs

1) Not an alignment tell. At all.
2) Already explained by cabd
2) 1 in 4 are shit odds and you're the one being disingeneous if you're supporting in as a good idea.

It's not L-1, it's a derpquote.

My bad. Is there some kind of vote scraper bot and will my derp quote screw it up?

[ryhx]

@ryhx
I don't think I explained it very well in that post and the end does come off kind of wishy washy. As I've said I used it before and people didn't really understand it then either
Here it is in that game.
http://www.footballforums.net/forums/sh ... ost8231590

I will bring this up at the end of the game as I expect it to look very similar to what it is in that link.

I have clarified that I think both Cabd and Best are the scumiest so far. However I may have been tunneling on Best and some peoples opinions that his play seems newbtown could be true. I'd be willing to bet that only 1 from Cabd and Best is actually scum.... my money is on Cabd at the moment.

from the other 6 players the only one that I'm relatively confident that is town is Gar.
I have a light town read on Jason and an even lighter one on GM
Feg, Deri and Rhyx are all null. However from experience one of those 3 and possibly GM will prob turn out to be scum. We just have to wait until one hopefully gives us a scumtell

Again, I don't have a problem with the assertion that the most suspicious people are not all scum (other than the circular nature of the statment). We're not perfect at scum hunting and if it were true, mafia would be a much more boring game. The point is youve used it to say nothing in your post.

[ryhx]

Also not pointing out the OBVIOUSLY implied reads, is actually extremely scummy, yes they were "fluffy" but he was EXPLAINING HIS READS.

Those explanations were about as clear as mud and to say their obvious? You're the one reaching here and trying real hard to make something out of this to pin on Cabd. TheGarantula makes some good points also, that was a pretty quick jump onto the Cabd bandwagon, I hope you didn't get whiplash. Do explain cause you're looking scummy now.

Cabd: I knew there was probably gonna be a big wagon on him, and I didn't want to start the wagon.

What?? Why wouldn't you want to start a wagon? Especially since you were sitting at L-1 just a few days before lynch and if you were town, lynching another guy that is not you would be a pretty damn good plan even more so if you think he's scum. Unless, you're scum and you don't want to bus your scum buddy.
Also, there were 2 votes on Cabd already and you wouldn't have been starting anything. This is disingenuous as all fuck and confusing me.

And with Derivan popping in out of the blue..everyone looks scummy I need to get off work and read again.

[ryhx]

Wow ok, lots of stuff. Direct questions to me first:

@Rhyx and Best you are both still voting for me, has the last day or 2 changed your mind on your vote? I agree Deri is acting suspicious with his observational style of play, it seems very much like active lurking

You've not become any less scummy so far in my opinion. Other people are rising up in the scum ranks though so that helps you out. But..

@ryhx: Same question, where would your hypothetical compromise vote go?

As in if I cant get Guyett who do I want? Derivan. I can see a guyett/derivan scum pair.

RYHX, did you ever go meta feg for gambits as town?

I only checked out his last few games, but he didn't play any gambits.

Re Cabd:

@Rhyx
Could it also be laziness? After reading my conclusion above what are your thoughts?

Now after playing more than 2 days and with how active this group is (which is so awesome ), yeah i can totally see laziness/busy-ness. Giant walls are hard when sneaky posting from the toilet at work.

Re Guyett:

@Rhyx
Couldn't this also be indicative of poor play? I think your initial read was spot on.

My initial read was scummy on guyett. Well I don't think its optimal play as either scum or town. But that seemed like a very over blown reaction. Town I think generally panics less.

Troubling to me is that GM admits to you that she is a 'defense expert' and then you shift your vote. What made you reconsider?

GM explained her votes well to me, her voting cabd was not as sudden as I thought and her drop on feg was ok-reasoned. I don't have a town-read on her yet, but mostly I felt others were more scummy.

[ryhx]

Quick notes on derivan:

His jump on cabd seemed sudden and quick and it felt like hes jumping in, in protection of guyett. Now that he's caught flack he's reversed his reads.

Also its rather funny that he should jump in and declare cabd's stalling and is scum when we've also been waiting for derivan's promised reads since several days ago.

[ryhx]

I called him out for wishy-washy play and how asking about hammering looked bad. I think he has made some very poor plays, but could not find a scum motivation in his moves after re-reading him. I still don't think he is scum at the moment, but with his poor play/confusing moves I moved him down to a null read in Post 414.

Was it not logical for me to move my vote to the next scummiest person on my read list? You shifted your vote from GM to Guyett in a very similar manner after putting them both on your list of potential scum in Post 266 (where you also called Cabd scummy) after stating that GM cleared up your questions about her. Pot, kettle.

Cabd had been stalling for over a week and there have been multiple people calling him out on in. Post 257 I made just before you replaced in, then the site went down. As soon as I saw the site was back up I made Post 319. I did reverse my read of Cabd and have moved him to a null read due to the content of his last posts.

@Rhyx
When have I ever put anything but a slight town read on Guyett? Where did I promise reads where I did not follow through on? What reason do you have to misrep?

I will finish up with the rest of my ISOs and reads tonight.

I'm not sure why you're asking about Guyett, I've not said that you put a scum read on Guyett?

You promised an updated read list to come after I posted in 257 which you even linked up there. Counting the partial ISOs as a read list, you've only just delivered. I didn't misrep.

Its true you did have Cabd on your read list in 191, I hadn't realized that and I only remembered you going on about Jason/Feg. That said its not like you gave any reason then for your scum read, though perhaps it can be implied from your previous post that its for his 'filler' posts. Your next post of substance is a 100 posts later at 319, where you call out Cabd for not responding to your post ages ago (147) although there's not really anything there for him to respond to, which is rather weak. In retrospect you having Cabd on your scum list some time before and voting him next isn't as opportunistic as initially seemed and the server downtime made your absence artificially longer perhaps so it made it seem more suspicious.

[ryhx]

Hey guys I was casing Derivan when this jumped out at me:

@everyone: Best calling other people newbs doesn't lend to the 'just a newb' theory, even though his actions/responses I agree appear newbish. It almost feels to me that he is being coached to appear more newb than he his. Anyone disagree?

To quote Cabd: Town. Fucking. Slip. amirite? Except thanks to Guyett everyone should know scum can only talk at night. And Derivan has thus far struck me as pretty conscientious and has clearly been reading the thread carefully, so I know he knows.

I initially had 2 reasons for believing it to be a townslip:
1. I've had similar thoughts about best, its easy to fall back on scumhunting logic from other mafia games, so especially if he's played on other sites where scum can talk throughout the day.
2. He didn't try to push the post into our consciousness to get someone to notice it, so it seems like a genuine slip.

Of course thats where it gets pretty WIFOM. Cause he could be a master scum planting a town slip just waiting for someone to pick it up.

I've been thinking about this for a while now and am just confusing myself and the deadline looming isn't making it better. I don't know what to think myself but with only a few hours left I want to throw this out there before its too late.

Is my reasoning for thinking its a town sliip even valid?

Also I'll be around for the deadline, so you can count on my vote to force a lynch. Since Derivan is on L-1 already I'll hold back and wait for someone to claim or I can sort out my thoughts about the above.

[ryhx]

Huh. I didn't think of that.

No..I'm not feeling that interpretation. The word coached seems like an awfully odd word to use if that were his intention.

Also oh yeah I can do this:
VOTE: bestwillcui
Someone claim.

[ryhx]

What! Why guyett.

Yeah that was hammer cabd. I put best at L-1

[ryhx]

Congrats on your graduation. Don't drink and drive. Don't hammer while drunk.

[ryhx]

@cabd I genuinely am not sober. look at my last few days, I have been on Bests case more than Deri. Also I am in Ireland and it is currently 05:04
I'm just in by flicking through I felt I had to make a move. Sorry if it looked bad

It' light outside and I'm in work in a few hours
@best if you are town I sincerely apologise for hammering you
However I think best is scum so I think it'll be ok

I don't think you get it. Please post again when you're sober.

[ryhx]

eh how did Cabd sheep you GM?

[ryhx]

Should have clarified there. Town PR.

Because it was a scumslip in that post, and the town counterwagon needed to be hammered in quickly? shady as fuck.

If he's town PR i might even see guy/deri team

if best is town PR you mean? I hope not..But if so we'll have pretty good corroborating evidence whether Deri's lying about his BP. If the claim works in the setup then I'll be inclined to believe him.

[ryhx]

Feg: null read, needs investigating.

GM: convenient timing coming in after the hammer. Content has been rather lackluster as we neared deadline and never did posts those reads.

Cabd: crazy spam posting. really jumped into town mode.

Jason: Depends on bests flip. If best is scum, I don't think so because that would have been one heck of a bus. If best is town, definitely on the scum side. he's been on bests case forever.

Gar: town. so town.

Deri: I think what i posted (from him) was a town slip and i'll wait and see what comes from his role claim.

Guyett: Scummy, scummy if best is town. His drunk posting is coherent and seems to understand whats going on but i will let him defend himself when he's less drunk.

[ryhx]

whew. ok what timezone is the mod in anyway

[ryhx]

It's not on amished's wiki so thanks for the explanation cabd.

Since I'm your only replacement I can tell you there's none but see for yourself.

I made a brief scan of feg previously, he's claimed burnout in more then one game so we're not special.

I have to stop sneaky posting from work now

[ryhx]

He's claiming bp. Makes sense . Gar can you post your scum picks in case you get Nked

[ryhx]

Good to be back guys and welcome,klick.

Guyett's matyr 'deserved to be lynched, please lynch me' shtick is kind of bugging me. Im also not quite sure to believe his drunk hammer still, think I had some points I wanted him to address specifically, I'll have to check back tmr.

@goodmorning: what was the gist of the message you were going to post?
Also, please point out the post where you fucking told us best was a PR.

Everyone else has to wait I'm fucking falling asleep as I type.

P-edit: Guyett...trying to push a wifom case? Doesn't work

[ryhx]

Rhyx this is one of GM's post calling Best a PR.

Thanks but I was asking GM.

Jason pointed it out in his 563. Normally a PR slip isn't something I'd point out, but seeing as he BLATANTLY ASKED ABOUT CRUMBING...

This is the problem I have with your OTT all caps 'I FUCKING TOLD YOU GUYS' exclamations (the quotes are in sequential order):

I'm guessing Cabd means specifically that it is a PR slip. Because PRs breadcrumb their roles.
I personally would disagree with that assessment because I think he'd have brought it up sooner if he were.

You say you don't think he's PR.

That's why Scum should crumb more subtle crumbs. But you make a good point there about the semi-open nature of the setup. But then again if he doesn't want to be lynched then just implying he has a PR might get people off his back whether he does or not.

Could be best doesn't have a PR.

I already have expressed my reservations on best: I think he is erratic newbTown. PLUS he

kinda-sorta

PR slipped a while back. Are we going to ignore that?

Kinda-sorta is in no way explicit nor certain. Kinda-sorta is expressing doubt.

Its possible you were wanting to play down best's PR, heck I did it too, although you didn't help me out and instead countered me, so I have doubts about that. Either way though, you didn't 'fucking tell us all' and I don't like how you're painting the situation now.

[ryhx]

Guyett's matyr 'deserved to be lynched, please lynch me' shtick is kind of bugging me.

What I find strange is that he says to policy lynch him multiple times but then switches to "jk plz don't" once people express suspicion of him.

His story is plausible though, here is my read list.

Here's my problem with Guyett:

I'm not entirely comfortable voting for Deri yet but Best can get my vote. I only hope I got it in in time. FWIW Cabd I am willing to claim my role as a plain old Vanilla

Like I said I'm only in and saw a timer that said a few hours left... I felt I had to make a move and to me Best is scummier than deri.

He goes from he rushed because he hoped to get his vote in, in time to he saw there were a few hours left.

I'm just in by flicking through I felt I had to make a move. Sorry if it looked bad

His concern about looking bad, looks bad.

His posts are rather coherent and he seems to have an understanding of what was going on. I don't doubt that he was drinking, a lot at that, but I'm wondering just how drunk/sober was he.

Ok first of all I'd like to apologise for the drunk hammer, it was really stupid and I should have waited for Best to claim his role. I was drunk and with both players at L-1 I saw the deadline looming so I took it upon myself to hammer the player I was most suspicious of. Deri had claimed a PR and it turns out Best holds a PR so we probably would have had to all vote for a new person (likely Cabd or myself at that stage in the game)

@Guyett why did you feel you had to hammer when there were others around. Sounds like you're afraid the vote would have turned to you if best claimed.

[ryhx]

Trying not to be a total zero-content prod-dodge here.

Re Goodmorning:

The point of me pointing out that it didn't have to be a PR slip was indeed an attempt to play it down so he wouldn't become an NK before he had a chance to say anything useful.
The point of me saying "kinda-sorta" was to make the statement look more bitchy as to inspire people not to be idiots. It was not intended to be a statement of uncertainty. best was clearly not guileful enough to be faking.

I do count the "kinda-sorta" statement as fucking telling everyone so because that was its intent.

If you intent was to to downplay his PR slip, why did you counter me when I did similar?

I can't say your intent was very clear, especially in light of your previous posts. Maybe you really did, but your OTT yelling 'I knew it' just seems so..off. You didn't even mention it in twilight, if you felt so strongly about it.

Re Guyett: What Gar said.

Re Jason: You've been avoiding the question, why don't you believe derivan.

Re Derivan: Paragraphs please.

[ryhx]

Lol great, this game needs a kick.

Because when you say "VTs can crumb too" it looks like a bad excuse which Scum would be damned well likely to ignore.

There wasn't a point in mentioning it in twilight, he was already dead so no point saying "don't lynch him" again, and he hadn't flipped yet so I couldn't say "I told you so".

Was it that bad? It was actually somewhat genuine, I had seen VT breadcrumb on a few occasions and it made sense then. Although now thinking about it again, it doesn't really make sense as any scum could breadcrumb VT easily

[ryhx]

This is shit. It's 5 days to deadline already, where did the week go.

VOTE: klick

[ryhx]

UNVOTE: Klick
Uncomfortable how that ran up and not comfortable putting *PLAYER TBD* at L-1 yet.

Sure, based off the players left I do think there's a reasonable chance *UNKNOWN PLAYER* is scum, but even if *EMPTY SLOT* is scum, there's still one scum among us and I rather get him/her voted out today instead of taking a chance on an inactive slot. Until the replace-in comes at least.

I wasn't waiting for someone else to vote, i was waiting for klick to post. As i have said already i have 2 confirmed towns in deri and myself and 2 players that i am reasonably sure are town in gar and rhyx
That leaves just 3 people, Jason, klick and gm, that are likely scum. I am most sure about gm being scum but I'm happy to lynch klick as the chances that he is scum are decent.

If you're feeling good about GM being scum then why not just vote her instead of the inactive player??

Still liking guyett for scum, but I'll wait for the replacement to come in before putting anyone at hammering range.

[ryhx]

Putting my vote back on gm until we get a replacement
VOTE: good morning

Jason your single minded tunneling of me is reminiscent of what you did with cabd a best... Both of whom were town. You were wrong then and you're wrong again.
Who are your top 2 choices for scum?

Hm? Why the sudden jump back to gm? What happened to happy to lynch Klick/IrishPope? Conveniently timed as the bandwagon stalled dead in the water?

hello to the people, skimming today and reading tomorrow
Apparently I'm in a bad position, so if Klick didn't claim, I'm claiming: VT

Welcome Irish. That was a quick claim.

[ryhx]

Gm: right now I would vote guyett

Tip: then why are you unvoting now? Do you still think gar is scum?

Sorry I've been busy guys, I'll try and knock some stuff out on my lunch break later.

[ryhx]

Hallo tip. You threw out your big case on gar because of his one line reaction?

[ryhx]

Two wagons hath appeared...

tip: Don't think its a scumslip, seems pretty obvious it was a ~reaction test~ of sorts. Same with his other votes, seems to be at least partially a fish for reactions, but I don't see it as an alignment tell. Would like to see what he makes of it first.

guyett: just from day 2, he's been wifoming the nk pretty hard and has been flipping his votes pretty hard trying to get a lynch going. The way he unvoted klick/tip after the momentum died is pretty suspect. Combined with my suspicions from day 1 + drunkhammergate, he's still my first pick for lynch.

@tip: how could derivan have guessed? I didn't see any hints from best. Do you think he's more likely lying or not lying

Fake edit: I keep typing in the quick reply box but this site keeps logging me out before I post and trashing my reply...WHYYYYY!!

[ryhx]

Because I still have 21 hours to lynch you

[ryhx]

Well, people are still talking, also I wanted to see a readlist out of tip. Tip, are you gonna provide one?

[ryhx]

Sweet, thanks.

And furthermore, continually calling bullshit on his claim, makes it look like that person is a PR.

Wait, I don't get this. Makes who look like a PR? Guyett? TIP? Derivan?

But unless someone counter claims, Deri is believable. If someone counter-claims, well at this late stage I'll probably still believe Deri over a counter claimer. It would be some lucky odds for Deri to have guessed right.

[ryhx]

@tip: do you not sleep

I'm sorry guys, I wanted to contribute more before ending the day but work is kicking my ass and I won't be able to check in again till after the deadline.

In any case I still think Guyett is scum and I doubt something will come up that will change that, so here goes.

VOTE: Guyett

If I die before we wake, I think GM is the other scum buddy. If guyett isn't scum, well then, shit.

[ryhx]

VOTE: Deri

[ryhx]

Hey guys was great playing with you all

I woke up at 3am to make that hammer, i had hoped tip would join the momentum XD Luckily too since Gar figured it out.

When Jason floated the counter claim thing night one I didn't think it'd work, but the set up day 2 was p.brilliant.

Lol @NS I just read the dead thread and saw the game is plurality lynch. I'm sure I read it in the beginning but must have promptly forgotten when everyone got carried away with a no lynch happening.

@Guyett: sorry to jump on you so hard on the drunk hammer. I didn't think it was that bad honestly (it was stupid definitely, but not a cardinal sin) and you were reeking frustration, but I wanted to win so you had to go I thought you made the right decision on the vote FWIW, I'm surprised no one brought up the fact that if you were scum you would have hammered Deri instead. I was going to in fact, if your drunk hammer hadn't ruined it

I think it helped being a newb, day 1 I didn't know enough to overthink my posts, lol.

[ryhx]

^I wouldn't count on it!

If it came down to deadline would hammering a claimed PR or a no lynch be better for town