Magical Girls UPick - Heart of Shadow (Game Over)

[Lady Eventide]

Let's defeat the evil with the firepower of love~

[Lady Eventide]

My, this really *is* a two week dayphase isn't it?

[Lady Eventide]

Oh goddamn it I just realized I forgot entirely about star guardian Jinx
Timeout we gotta rerand
(jk)

[Lady Eventide]

I'm more of a Jinx fan than a LoL fan tbqh, but yeah cool.

[Lady Eventide]

I don't think that's what Dannfloor meant Sakurahana, the actual post count is pretty typical for a large Theme I think. The extent to which the posts has been alignment indicative have been slow. That's what a games actual pace is.

The speed of getting out of low-information-stage/RVS can vary pretty dramatically from game to game.

yeah pretty much exactly this

the vote hopping is half me trying to make something happen / see what people do

half me just having fun

I can fullclaim and we can go from there.

Please no.

[Lady Eventide]

@Lady Lambdadelta:
Where are you? I was expecting you to be here!~

[Lady Eventide]

@Lady Lambdadelta:
Where are you? I was expecting you to be here!~

Life finds a way.

Specifically the way is Borderlands 3.

personally I'm more excited about Celeste Ch. 9, but I get it.

[Lady Eventide]

Hiya fellow townies, I'm looking forwards to exacting pseudorandom mob justice in a merciless extrajudicial process upon those unfortunate enough to stand out!

- lilliaire

[Lady Eventide]

Um is this MCU Loki or which Loki is this

Loki is named after the original Norse character itself. He does not resort to trickery quite as often but sometimes he waits until Pandora starts eating then pulls the foodbowl to a new position with his paw to pull a fast one on her.

Whoever names their two cats Loki and Pandora is ratwd pretty high in my book

[Lady Eventide]

Anyway, as for the actual game...

If we assume 4 mafia in a 17p game, and a backup gauge = to half of scum, just like ours, then probably we can assume at least 2 scum will be using their transform powers, and at max 4.

If we want to guarantee transforms, we want a max of 4 townies transforming. But if we go for that, it means scum will be able to get all 4 of their potential night powers.

If we want to force maf to crash their own backup transform gauge if they crash ours, then we want to aim for 6 townies transforming - exactly half of us.

I personally prefer a role madness game to a mountainous, so I suggest we assign all living players an odd-night transform or even-night transform modifier based on wether their player number is odd or even.

- Evenstar

[Lady Eventide]

I want to be risky and try for a scenario where townies with crappy abilities don't transform and townies with powerful abilities transform and we don't overheat. Worst case scenario our sane cop works every other nightbecause we overheat, best case scenario she acts every night. With the leashing, both best and worst case scenario is every other night.


Pandora and Loki are both represented as dark attribute characters in puzzles and dragons, and are both black. So that's why I picked the names.

Both their mythologies are kind of about subverted expectations.

The issue there is, how crappy do you expect everyone else's abilities to be? How can people judge their own abilities? If we have a gunsmith, should they transform? A tracker? A bodyguard? A motion detector?

[Lady Eventide]

Misc. Setup Information

• This game contains 13
  Heart of Light
  and 4
  Heart of Shadow
  .
  
• There are no third parties in this game.
  
• There are no bastard roles or hidden mechanics in this game.

It is public info
-Tana

Thanks. So we know there are 4 mafia, but not how their backup gauge works? -E

[Lady Eventide]

Example of how real life can be ok and fantasy even better

I am trying to make the post "more votes on Titus" to summon kitten pics.

But Loki keeps nudging my hand away from the phone which seems ironic.

Votes can be exchanged for images of Loki and Pandora.

VOTE: Titus

- lilliaire

[Lady Eventide]

VOTE: Dannflor

OMGUS

- Evenstar

[Lady Eventide]

My hydra partner. Also called Mistress. Or Nine if we sign our posts.

I'll be signing my posts with
~Celica

... She literally goes by "Mistress"? Really?

[Lady Eventide]

I call her Misty and it makes her voice go all high pitched and cute.

Awww, that's adorable <3

- lilliaire

[Lady Eventide]

What us this option C

We play a normal game of mafia and not do any of the stupid stuff that happens around my slot. But, as I said thanks to my partner if that happens~

I didn't misread you in Project Arch tho, what makes you think i'd misread you here?
-Tana

I always expect people to go into a game scumreading me to some extent besides 3 people. None of that are in this game. Although with you it's more so. "If I even speak of a scumread on Sakura she's gonna try and kill me."

Like if it isnt obvious im trying to learn to read people im usually paranoid of, i did that with you and RC in Project Arch
-Tana

I am very thankful for this and I do hope everyone else does the same!

My hydra partner. Also called Mistress. Or Nine if we sign our posts.

I'll be signing my posts with
~Celica

... She literally goes by "Mistress"? Really?

I call her Misty and it makes her voice go all high pitched and cute.

Lily thinks "mistress" is a super cute name, and I bet she'll love "misty" as a diminuitive of it.~

(She'll probably be annoyed at me for posting this though. She's very shy, and has very little mafia experience; she's feeling quite stressed about the game tbqh, and is already blaming herself for getting us scumread by whatsisface D-name sorry I don't have everybody in my head yet.)

[Lady Eventide]

I don't feel like Lady Eventide's posts have been that from town lately. Too mechanical and no scumhunting.

VOTE: Lady Eventide

@Lilliarie told you so

Yeah I'll get on that.

[Lady Eventide]

The fact that both LLD and Katsuki have expressed intent to lurk is beyond concerning and I don't think either slot should be left alive past even day 1 if they are lurking.

Where did I express my intent to lurk?

I said I'm not doing shit with this game for a tiny bit because I'm playing Borderlands 3 with friends and it's way more relaxing than thinking about a mafia game.

Actually I was pretty clear about what I was doing.

And given you appear to know better (fuck hydrae I have no idea who is in there) it's a bit suspicious you think I would ever lurk... or if I was lurking I'd ever actively state I was gonna just do it.

Mind explaining yourself?

Oh hi LLD, nice to see you are in fact playing.

Nice counterattack too.

I think you're getting off a bit too easily here, tbqh. I may just be seeing that your play is super consistent regardless of alignment, but...

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

[Lady Eventide]

Bitmap town... I can see it but I think it's a bit hasty, I don't like the sharpness of their voteflip.

Also if we forget to sign it's almost always Evenstar just 'cause the majority of our posts are Evenstar.

[Lady Eventide]

I'm not townreading LLD, but I'm not scumreading her either. I'm not quite sure what your expectations are here: do you think that she's actually been scummy?

I think that she's playing just like how she did in G5 of quals on MU, and she was a wolf there. The highly counter-aggressive persona is very unlike the more casual interactions I've had with her, so I'm trying to figure out if that's Mafia!Lexi in general or Scum!Lexi specifically.

-Eva

[Lady Eventide]

I am fine with the can of worms remaining closed: one D1 lynch over talking too much about mechanics is enough for this month, thanks.

-Eva

[Lady Eventide]

I think Dannflor is town. He's taking initiative and leading wagons. Scum doesn't do that.

Talk about this? Why do you say this with certainty?

Is there something about Dannflor's meta I should know?
-Eva

[Lady Eventide]

My desire to win is lower than usual at the moment. Therefore it doesn't seem that errant to scumread me, I probably am not dropping town wincon motivations too much. I'm sure I will care about deleting the scums instead of roleplaying magical girl soon enough that I'm not mislynched. Well I'm not sure, my day 1 mislynch rate is pretty high.

I don't scumread your scumread as of now

Isn't being a magical girl about being someone for people to look up to, though? -E

[Lady Eventide]

... I think I see what Tana may be seeing.

@Pops: Care to explain why you believe the scum to have *three* power roles? And why you're pro-mechanical-discussion and volunteering role info while simultaneously chewing others out for rolefishing? Not only that, but...

... I just can't shake that you're *apologizing for RPing a magical girl and letting that get in the way of good gameplay.*

That... does not feel like a towny mindset. Wouldn't you want to be the best and most towny magical girl ever???

VOTE: Popsofctown

[Lady Eventide]

2 Town - the only 2 I have recently. I slanked a bit in Innotree, too. Sorry.
Dragon Ball M(afia)
Revenge of the Innocent and the Tree

1 scum game:
Wildcard 1 of the World Championships

Ask LLD for more about my scum meta; we scummed together in Game 5 of the World Champs qualifiers.

I FPS, do setup/role analysis and do paranoia cases regardless of alignment. I'm also known for bussing my teammates to hell as scum. Be cautious, but I seriously rec against lynching me early; I'm a bit of an easy ML tbqh. Watch for the method in the madness and give me time to show I'm town.

- Evenstar

[Lady Eventide]

I don't expect to live past day 1. I won't be "giving you time to show that you're town" unless that's going to be happening before the end of this day.

I mean, it is a two week long dayphase

so, like, fair.

[Lady Eventide]

Yeah I am not asking for time measured in plural dayphases

... defending against an accusation not levelled?

-E

also heading bed

Lily is in charge for now she's in a later timezone than me

[Lady Eventide]

Wow, like six pages of useless flaming overnight. Mafia must be laughing and laughing right now.

And it all started with pressure being put on Sailor Senshi, so guess where my vote's going?

VOTE: Sailor Senshi

If the thread explodes when someone gets pressured, >rand they're scum.

[Lady Eventide]

Wow, like six pages of useless flaming overnight. Mafia must be laughing and laughing right now.

And it all started with pressure being put on Sailor Senshi, so guess where my vote's going?

VOTE: Sailor Senshi

If the thread explodes when someone gets pressured, >rand they're scum.

*puke*

Would you care to use actual arguments instead of projectile vomit?

[Lady Eventide]

Would you care to use actual arguments instead of projectile vomit?

Hey eventide I think my reaction is easy to explain if you actually read my 714 and 721.
And the thread exploding is a product of 1)A 6+ page long fight 2)Personal insults.
So try again Eventide, this time with less "thread exploding" nonsense and more quoting/actual arguments

"A 6+ page long fight full of personal insults" = "The Thread Exploding". Little of use got done; the thread was an AtE storm and it's only just now starting to settle. Your own deeply disgusted reaction says that it's annoying everyone and harming Town morale. That is bad. That is the kind of posting the scum want to happen.

Also, wow, I missed two of your posts from literally one page ago. What a horrible oversight. I don't see why you should

puke

over that.

You're looking scummy and overdefensive right now. "I

think

my reaction is

easy to explain

" - not "my reaction is

because

." And then you dig into me for not posting while I was asleep. Lovely.

(And no, Lilliare did not make the early mechanical posts you ascribe to her. Her only posts are the ones she's signed. -E)

[Lady Eventide]

And I never defended Bitmap, stop lying.
The next lie that comes out of you I am stacking quotes and suffocating you with their truth.

WHY NOT DO IT NOW

[Lady Eventide]

And I never defended Bitmap, stop lying.
The next lie that comes out of you I am stacking quotes and suffocating you with their truth.

WHY NOT DO IT NOW

Seriously, this is not a town post. If you think you have a case that strong,

you present it and try to get the liar lynched.

You don't make vague bullshit threats.

So, @Gameplay506:

Put up or shut up.

VOTE: Gameplay506

[Lady Eventide]

All unsigned posts are Eva. These are particularly so, lily would probably cuss me out for being undiplomatic.

[Lady Eventide]

You're looking scummy and overdefensive right now. "I think my reaction is easy to explain" - not "my reaction is because." And then you dig into me for not posting while I was asleep. Lovely.

I'm digging into you for having 30 posfs of nothing and not for sleeping.

Cool. That does in fact improve my opinion on you a bit.

I'm trying to get control of my FPSing and paranoia casing habits here, so I'm probably underposting/fluffposting more than I should. Ironically, it looks like I might have a reverse meta in general; read me in WC1 for an example of my scumgame.

Would still like a response to my other arguments.

[Lady Eventide]

hmm

Eventide's vote on SS is pretty shoddy. being pressured leading to spat is a terribly weak reason to scum read people... what do you want, that after being pressured you just lay down and die?

I don't think gameplay is scum, but please don't use personal RL stuff as a point of attack.

If Eventide would flip scum, Titus's (hello titus!) attack on gameplay is very much chainsaw.

Pressure leading to

personal attacks and threats of reporting

is very much a scumtell. Pressure leading to

debate and defense

is

not;

it's the fact that it got personal very quickly that's pinging me. Personal arguments don't say shit about the gamestate, and therefore mafia want to cast any disagreement with them as a personal issue, not a legitimate argument based on real evidence. I've straight up called a townie a bitch and an asshole to cover for a scumslip I made. I'm not

proud

of that, but it's a thing that I did.

-Evenstar

[Lady Eventide]

Spoiler:

Would you care to use actual arguments instead of projectile vomit?

Hey eventide I think my reaction is easy to explain if you actually read my 714 and 721.
And the thread exploding is a product of 1)A 6+ page long fight 2)Personal insults.
So try again Eventide, this time with less "thread exploding" nonsense and more quoting/actual arguments

"A 6+ page long fight full of personal insults" = "The Thread Exploding". Little of use got done; the thread was an AtE storm and it's only just now starting to settle. Your own deeply disgusted reaction says that it's annoying everyone and harming Town morale. That is bad. That is the kind of posting the scum want to happen.

Also, wow, I missed two of your posts from literally one page ago. What a horrible oversight. I don't see why you should

puke

over that.

You're looking scummy and overdefensive right now. "I

think

my reaction is

easy to explain

" - not "my reaction is

because

." And then you dig into me for not posting while I was asleep. Lovely.

(And no, Lilliare did not make the early mechanical posts you ascribe to her. Her only posts are the ones she's signed. -E)

Since I already responded to 755 and you are waiting for my response I suppose you are talking about this one.
1. I do agree that scum would ideally want to bring town morale down but as I already said I do not think that this was intentional here.
2. I didn't really atack you for not reading my posts. Tho you voting one page after my posts did bring me to the idea that you were caught up and thus had read my posts.
3. Dunno about overdefensive, frustrated by titus more likely. I explained my problem with her posting but she just keeps on doing more of the same so yea. That's what it might seem like rn. And my choice of words might not be the best, yes, maybe it can be explained with me not being a native english speaker or maybe because I have a chaotic mind sometimes. Idk.

Cool.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

I'm noticing that despite acknowledging my arguments, you haven't actually

done

anything about them.

-E

[Lady Eventide]

Cool.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

I'm noticing that despite acknowledging my arguments, you haven't actually done anything about them.

-E

Why LLD over Sailor?

Sailor hasn't responded and seems inactive. LLD did in fact respond to my earlier post. -E

[Lady Eventide]

FPSing

Why would you need to get a hold of False Peek Stating?

Fancy Play Syndrome.

[Lady Eventide]

Sailor hasn't responded and seems inactive.

Excuse me.....what? We went from 2 posts to 2nd top poster what part of that is.....inactive. We litteraly didnt post for 1 day and we got called a lurker. 1 day. You vote was the worse thing ever and chaning vote now wont salvage that. Not only had you read you would have known what exactly went on and why was anythng taking as a personal attack. How me,nancy and sakrua were trying to calm things down because it wasnt lol herp derp I am scum let me personal attack people. You read nothing saw tractiong and voted there based on general knowledge of what happened.

Vote: Lady Eventide

@Titus
D: cookies I was out a party alright, I that why my first day was doing nothing. Also let's be honest since when were my caughts up informative or anything other than most of the time a gif and a I caught up.

Sailor Venus

... *facepalm*

Thanks for at least responding. Also, "traction"? Really? Sure doesn't seem to be a whole lot of that.

Given that apparently whatever I do gets me scumread by somebody, might as well just carry on carrying on.

VOTE: Sailor Senshi

@Gamma Emerald:
Nope I didn't. Why should I? It looks like a mess of AtE at a skim. What useful information do you expect me to extract from it?

[Lady Eventide]

@Shiro

oh come on I don't need to be playing hungry too

- E

[Lady Eventide]

It's time I got serious about this shit so let's do a readslist. All this is based on ISOs 'cause I'm lazy tbqh.

Gameplay:
Probably town. Off-timezone due to euro and constantly behind, which explains a lot of their cluelessness. Does actually seem to be trying to contribute. I see why people leapt on their early post, but entrances are hard and Vanity got killed in WC1 for that kind of thing, so I think that's cool. Their defense of it feels towny to me.

Titus:
Leaps on the early gameplay comment as scummy. Until then is kinda fluffposting and I don't like their tone. I don't think Gameplay is over-defensive here. Calls Gameplay asking "Where have I been overdefensive" a "mild gaslight." If there's a scum in this pair I'm really feeling like it's Titus right now. Continuing the ISO... Ugh, I wish I had the multi-iso tool from mafiauniverse here. Seeing just the titus/gameplay fight would be nice. Interesting that he deflects away from pops early, does he continue that?

..."go visit my Goddaughter."

... is that literally a godfather claim???? Ugh. I don't like this. Original leader of the Sailor vote, ok... Tana hops on... Accuses Gameplay of doing nothing but needling... There is at least one Townie in this fight, and if someone is scum it's Titus but this is looking more T/T just for the tunneling happening here. Maintains his sus of Gameplay even when he's voting Sailor. That says he's actually using his vote as a weapon, which is towny. Tries to link Sailor and Gameplay together, that's a worse look but also possibly town-motivated, so NAI - seeing ghosts, trying to make everything fit the current theory. I don't like their hop off the Sailor wagon for it 'organically dying' - evaluating current state of wagons has scummy mindset. And then he flipflops back to Sailor.

...Sailor and Titus are never scum together, so sorting Titus/Sailor is looking v important. Annnnd cookie ok.

Overall... I feel really unsure about Titus now.

... and now I'm being sent to mow the lawn, so. Gonna go do that. Yay. -E

[Lady Eventide]

Given that apparently whatever I do gets me scumread by somebody, might as well just carry on carrying on.

yikes

SEE WHAT I MEAN

[Lady Eventide]

lol
-E

[Lady Eventide]

I had to

<3

[Lady Eventide]

Lmao. The Goddaughter comment is about my literal Goddaughter.

Evaluating wagon states is scummy. Lmfao.

Sure, fine.

Wagon states: This early? Yes, yes it is. I'm pretty sure this isn't a hammer game?

- Eva

[Lady Eventide]

I think this is going to be a town slaughter ~Ephraim

Why?

[Lady Eventide]

I think this is going to be a town slaughter ~Ephraim

Why?

This doesn't really seem like a question that town asks.

You think I'm scum. And you're pushing for my lynch. And you simultaneously think it's going to be a town slaughter.

What the fuck?

Do you think that I'm scum or do you not? Or do you think that my scummates are so good that they can 'slaughter' town after I'm lynched D1?

This makes zero sense, and attacking me for the question makes

negative

sense.

... Y'know what,

VOTE: Tana And Ephraim

I want to hear more out of you two.

[Lady Eventide]

Lady Even where are your reads at right now?

Be as thorough as you can

Right now...

Frankly I don't have a lot. But of the people I've interacted with/can recall, 5 minute version so as not to get interrupted again:

LLD:

Inscrutable, but I don't like how she seems to be ducking all inquiries. I know she loves mafia, so her silence is concerning.

Cop:

Scummy in a vague kind of way; I don't like them, I want to see more. I had a better reason but I've lost it somewhere.

Sailor Senshi:

Were lurking, which is a pet peeve of mine, and also were a source of the thread blowup, but TBQH my vote here was crappy and I ought to have known better. They've defended themselves well since and I think their reactions are towny. Not going back here today unless I find a very good reason, esp given the number of hops on here. (Who else was on this? God I want the VCA tools from MU.)

Tana and Ephraim:

Are currently pinging me very hard, both for tone reasons and because they're throwing shade at me but don't actually seem to want to lynch me. I feel like they're reading me as a weak town player they can mislynch later. Also they called me "a weak scum" when my scumgame LITERALLY GOT ME TO THE FINALE OF THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. Seriously? Have clearly not done any background meta on me whatsoever and ignored my previously posted scumgame.

Cafe Stiles:

Seems towny but fluffy at a first impression. Haven't looked into deeper, should.

Groar

Croag:

Scummy, because reasons.

Katsuki:

Is being weird, but I

think

it's a town kind of weird? Overall I want to see more and would not vote here right now.

Gameplay:

... I think they're town. I don't like how they play the game, but I think they're town. They seem to be motivated more by solving than by pushing for lynches, and that's good. Dislike them keeping me as a 'reserve lynch', but w/e.

Taristra

Titus:

Giving me very mixed signals, needs solving... but is posting enough, and is already under enough pressure, that I don't want to vote them right now. Would lynch Tana over them, would lynch them over Gameplay. Don't think that Sailor Senshi are scum rn, and that's a strike against them for an easy inactive push.

RCEnigma:

Gives me experienced-player vibes, but otherwise too early to judge alignment IMO. Gun to head, town.

DrDolittle:

Barely exists. I think he's voting me? Post seemed inoffensive at the time. Let me ISO fast he's only got 10 posts. First and apparently only

serious

vote... is on me, and IMO seems a bit opportunistic now. I was at what, three votes here? Deserves some investigation/pressure.

Bitmap:

No real read, should probably go back and look at esp. given his mentions and apparently having attracted some votes? Hm.

Hidden Happiness, Chaos Wind:

are both 2p hydras with nine posts. Need to contribute more.

Gamma Emerald:

Despite their vote on me there's nothing else in their ISO I can really complain about. They're just town.

Dannfor:

Likely town; you seem to be trying to solve me, rather than immediately writing me off as scum. I could be getting pocketed, but your ISO looks decent at a skim.

I hope I'm not missing anyone; activity list has a couple other people but I think they're parts of hydrae?

@Dannfor: I'll elaborate on this if you like but this is what I have in my head rn.

@Gameplay: her best

[Lady Eventide]

We're

literally

voting you right now

I'm talking about post #847, where you literally say you're "not in a particular rush to lynch [me] because

seem like weak scum." And just say that I'm scum "for various reasons", without actually giving them.

Also you were literally the person who asked me for my past scumgame. What conclusions did you come to regarding my play, based on that game that I provided? That I was

weak scum?

Did I do absolutely nothing of note to you in that game?

@GammaEmerald: PopsofCtown. My brain fucks things up, sorry.

[Lady Eventide]

ah fuck I did square brackets around I and it fucked everything up let me fix that \

EBWOP:

I'm talking about post #847, where you literally say you're "not in a particular rush to lynch (me) because (I) seem like weak scum." And just say that I'm scum "for various reasons", without actually giving them.

Also you were literally the person who asked me for my past scumgame. What conclusions did you come to regarding my play, based on that game that I provided? That I was

weak scum?

Did I do absolutely nothing of note to you in that game?

[Lady Eventide]

Also,

@Lady Lambdadelta:
You've played with me as scum.

1: What's your honest evaluation of my skill as scum? You ought to be an authority on this more than anybody else here.
2: Does it make sense that Tana might think I have a weak scumgame after reading WC1?

[Lady Eventide]

I noticed several tonal tics that I find to be also present here that are present in significantly lower quantities in the town games that I read.
Yes, I said I was in no rush to lynch you. I said that about all of my other scumreads as well because like I have said many times forcing content out of lurkers is a high priority for me.
I did express before that wallpost that I intended to vote you (if we hadn't already been voting you) so claiming that I'm trying to keep you around as a later mislynch is inaccurate at best.

... You're as of yet still not convincing me that you've actually read the scumgame. If you've read my ISO there's a big goddamn obvious

thing

I did in the game I linked, and you've

completely failed to mention it.

Here's a hint for you:

[Lady Eventide]

I noticed several tonal tics that I find to be also present here that are present in significantly lower quantities in the town games that I read.
Yes, I said I was in no rush to lynch you. I said that about all of my other scumreads as well because like I have said many times forcing content out of lurkers is a high priority for me.
I did express before that wallpost that I intended to vote you (if we hadn't already been voting you) so claiming that I'm trying to keep you around as a later mislynch is inaccurate at best.

Re: the rest of your post: we agree on forcing content from lurkers at least. I still dislike that you hedged in case this went badly for you.

[Lady Eventide]

I put very little stock in what most people consider alignment indicative content and a lot of stock in stuff that most people wouldn't even think to consider alignment indicative.
How people say and do things is to me far more important than what people actually say and do and your entire list on how to read you is the latter rather than the former.

~Ephraim

Re: the rest of your post: we agree on forcing content from lurkers at least. I still dislike that you hedged in case this went badly for you.

Swing and a miss x

[Lady Eventide]

Also I am required to be as vague as possible on this given that you linked a still-ongoing game.

As a scumgame? Uh,

no.

Also my alignment is known in that town game, given that I am already dead in it, so IDK how you could possibly mention anything substantial when discussing my alignment in it.

[Lady Eventide]

It does not matter if you are dead.
It does not matter if you don't think it will affect a game.
It does not matter if you aren't in the game.
It does not matter if you are posting about a game taking place on another forum or posting about an MS game on another forum.

I stand corrected and shouldn't have linked it in the first place, then. Sorry.

[Lady Eventide]

I did read other (finished) games of yours and the specific tell that I was referring to earlier in this thread was from -not the MU game that you linked-.
However it is also present in that game so I feel a lot safer simply citing 'reasons' as I have been doing to date.

I trust that you have more of a case than a apparent tonal tell that you can't talk about?

[Lady Eventide]

Eh I just don't want to address my read on you anymore because there's so many ways to get in trouble doing so.
I think that Eventide is scum and I have very good reasons to think that.

Forgive me if this does not inspire confidence in your play, especially when you can't demonstrate that you've read the scum game I linked you.

[Lady Eventide]

At any rate, I mentioned that your Sailor vote felt opportunistic, how come you never engaged me on that?
-Tana

Because there's nothing to productively engage; I was voting them for a bad reason and didn't know there was an existing wagon. Seemed like a good idea at the time, wasn't.

[Lady Eventide]

Why is it so hard to follow something as simple of "ongoing games dont exist" rule
-Tana

The scum game I linked you is not ongoing! You ought to be able to summarize the facts of my play in it at least!

[Lady Eventide]

Why is it so hard to follow something as simple of "ongoing games dont exist" rule
-Tana

The scum game I linked you is not ongoing! You ought to be able to summarize the facts of my play in it at least!

That would be nice, but im not good at meta reading, im more of a "in the momment" player. Dunno if it's ongoing or not, that's what RC said, he's the one that meta dives.
-Tana

I was obviously addressing Ephiraim there. Don't swap heads on me just to make my arguments seem unreasonable.

[Lady Eventide]

Anything I said about what is present in your scum play would be tantamount to saying that it's not present in the same amount in your town play and thus would constitute discussing the town game to a level that I'm not comfortable with.

... If this is the actual rule I'm leaving this community. Because that's dumb as hell. You're literally saying that any form of meta discussion is off limits because it might affect how I'm read in some other game.

Moreover, I don't fucking want you to talk about what's present in my scum or town play, I want you to fucking prove you actually read

anything

I sent you! You can state facts about a completed game in a neutral tone, can you not???

@Tana: It surprises me that you don't lead with it and instead go with Ephiraim's toneread. What else are the "various" reasons that you two have mentioned, or does your hydra also contain "various people"?

[Lady Eventide]

Here's

my

question. Why is your emphasis on me proving that I've read the game, if you scumread me? If I'm scum, I can read the game and provide facts.
OTOH if you feel like you've done a fantastic job of not playing to your scum meta and think that you're

so good

at scum, you might believe that I haven't read that game yet and that my read on you might change if I did.

Because if you are lying about having read the game, you are faking analysis. Which is the biggest red flag I know of in Mafia.

And your defensiveness here is giving you plenty of time to go and read it.

[Lady Eventide]

@Tana: It surprises me that you don't lead with it and instead go with Ephiraim's toneread. What else are the "various" reasons that you two have mentioned, or does your hydra also contain "various people"?

I guess you havent been reading our posts. I've mentioned several times that my role here is to make our hydra more readable coz RC is usually paranoia scumread, he's the better scumhunter and i generally dont question his reads unless i have a strong townread on the player he scumreads.
-Tana

You're failing to make him more legible, then.

[Lady Eventide]

But it seems you're getting hung up over these "reasons" from "reading your games" instead of... you know, adressing the fact that i called your vote opportunistic, also you mentioned you wanted to hear more from us when there's a big ISO with posts from both, and we've consistently interacted with the playerbase and provided reads as we form them. But NOPE, apparently we're scum because RC read your games and figured you were scum from doing so, everything else be damned.
-Tana

... Huh. Interesting.

Yes, there is a big ISO. Nonetheless, I wanted to hear more. Wanting to hear more =/= calling you inactive, please do be clear regarding that.

I still want to hear more from RC and get real proof he's read WC1, but this feels good. I think Dolittle's my priority now, rather than you two.

VOTE: DrDolittle

[Lady Eventide]

My proficiency as scum is high enough that I don't rely on falsehoods. If I wanted to use meta against you I'd do the due diligence to actually verify the meta and everyone in this game besides you knows that.
I literally am incapable of referencing the meta. It's done. It's not alignment indicative. If you want to call me scum then cite something else.

Not relying on falsehoods =/= never using them.

Not asking you to reference the meta. Asking you to provide a single factual piece of information that demonstrates you have read WC1. I seriously don't understand how you can believe the mods to have such an itchy trigger finger.

[Lady Eventide]

I was once banned for saying that a user "was not as smart as they think they are."

... Wow, really???

Okay then I guess.

[Lady Eventide]

I can provide an arbitrary piece of evidence that I read WC1. What good does that do at this stage? If I hadn't read it when I said I had, I certainly could have read it by now, as you established.
Like I

can

do this but it objectively serves no purpose and I'd rather not provide ammunition towards keeping this game in the dangerous territory that it's already been in.

That's fair enough and I apologize. Now can we please get some pressure on someone who isn't me? Because 1: I'm town, 2: your read is wrong, and 3: I don't want the rest of this dayphase to go to waste due to my fuckup.

[Lady Eventide]

Oh dear. I'm personally not a fan of all this hostile air, but I suppose that's mafia.

Evenstar's pretty transparently scum.

Wait my hydra partner already voted Evenstar.

I'm super proud of Tana rn

I think the best I can say is that if Eventide reveals as town, I hope people think about these two lines and what this certainty implies about Tana/Ephraim.

- lilliaire

[Lady Eventide]

Lady Eventide (Evenstar + Lillaire)[X]: Re: 771. The only strong personal attack that was made was Eph calling Mercury a bad person. Regardless, you admitted you barely read the exchange, context matters. SS Venus notices the same in 785. T&E 865 vote doesn't make sense; even if it is interpreted as "scum will slaughter" its not vote worthy compared to things that has happened this game. Vote on me in 927 is weird. Why am I your priority?

I really don't like the vibe Evenstar is tossing. It reads scum trying to flex to showcase how good he is in front of lilaire to get out of the lynch. But by virtue of this added pressure, Evenstar is more stressed, and posts are being more absurd. Can you comment? How does having SO as hydra here impact your gameplay, you think?

1: You're my priority due to:
I: Your vote on me, which makes you > rand to be scum, particularly given that you showed up in thread again apparently just to vote me, just as my wagon seemed to be picking up steam.
II: Your relatively low postcount. Yes, this is a weak tell; nonetheless I feel like your activity pattern of "mostly walls with aome fluff posts" correlates with how I personally end up playing scum. You could ofc be someone like Grapefruit or ComiTurtle and just take a farther more detached view of the game than me, but then that's why I'm voting isn't it? I want to judge your reactions to pressure and your character as a player.
III: Because of a reason that's related to role information, which I'm trying to be better about not discussing.
2: I'm a she.

Lady

Eventide. We're both girls. Lesbians exist, Doctor.
3: I'm actually more inclined to be reserved and not shove as hard as I'd like to because Lilliare doesn't like it when I'm mean. I'm also more selfconcious for obvious reasons; also I really don't want to die D1 because it took some convincing to get Lily on board and I don't want to have to wait forever for another game. Also, potentially being a less towny town than my SO who's barely ever played mafia before stings my pride, esp. as I've been having a bad run of getting lynched early as town recently.

@RC, I'm going to ask you a series of odd-ball questions bc I think you're town and I have an odd decision to make. These questions aren't exclusive to RC. I do give more priority to townreads and strategic thinkers however.

Rank the utility of the following actions for town. Reasons not required. You may or may not factor in your own pm.

1) A cop and a vig
2) 2 roleblocks
3) 2 cops
4) A roleblock and a vig
5) 2 vigs
6) A roleblock and a cop

1) 2 Cops
2) A cop and a vig
3) 2 Vigs
4) RB & Cop
5) RB & Vig
6) 2 RBs

For reasons.

Further thoughts on catchup, trying to actually read & not skim:

Chemist is fucking reading me properly! Thank god, at least the people with meta on me aren't scumreading the votehopping. Thank you, please keep talking; sorry to ask this but I think I'm gonna be in a bit of a hole without some help here.

Dannflor & Dolittle's interactions look good for both of them.

RCE's suggestion is interesting. Damn it, I really do need to read those six pages, I'm being an idiot.

Let's go back and do that right now.

... LLD bothers to post about Senshi looking bad?? In a really vague, shady way? Huh.

... Dannflor does not like the gamma/bitmap spat. Interesting. @Gamma why did you drop your case on bitmap?

Rereading Sailor's re-entrance and it's giving me instinctive aversion reactions. Eugh. Smells of not wanting to do work & not liking being called up to do it. Outright calls Tana a liar for saying a lot is happening, and votes her for it. NAGL. However I sympathize with T&E being annoyingly closemouthed about information after my own spat with them. Mmmm. On reread, I still think this is scummy, but less so.

... Dannfor's naked vote here is... I can get why it would happen, but Senshi is not wrong to call it out as bad. It's interesting that Dann has not seen a lot of pressure for it that I recall; likely because they say the obvious re "this push is incredibly forced", but it's still a LHF vote and not something I like. Continuing... Senshi mischaracterizes my push onto LLD and will soon get slapped for it by her.

Comment from Senshi: "That doesn't make [these events] actually worth comment unless I feel like Bitmap or pops is actually worth a push." This feels scum-midnset to me. However, their reactions to Dannfor are good and towny. Interesting.

Dannflor accuses them of being "overly hostile"... I would have said "overdefensive" or "annoyed you have to actually contribute." Spin towards a scum read of Senshi? Possible. Not sure if that's necessarily scummy though. Definitely much more interested in dann now.

Tana and Ephraim's response to the same question is muxh more thought out and solvey and makes me feel good about my current read on them.

Dannfor replies to: "unless I feel like Bitmap or pops is actually worth a push."

with "What on earth makes this a worthy push"

Which is so blatantly wrong and out of character for them that I feel it deserves a vote. Sailor was explicitly saying they were

not

worthy of a push.

LLD is present in thread when this happens and does

not

kick Dannfor's teeth in for it. That's a bad look for her tbqh.

... Damn it, I really really should have actually read this. Now RCE's gonna have beaten me to all this let me read the damn thread -

... Wait, what?

@RCEnigma: Have you seriously considered Dannflor as your potential scumpartner? They look very bad in their interactions with senshi; they seem to be pushing the escalation and almost lolcatting, in stark contrast to their usual tone. They do back off when called on it in #529, but...

I really do think they deserve more investigation, especially as I did read their earlier effort to get me to post reads as "conciliatory" and now they're trying to get it read as "trying to find associatives"; the motivational spin seems off to me.

... ugh, "pops might be scum but is that interesting". Senshi is really reminding me why I don't like their posting.

Here comes LLD and slaps down Senshi's bad read of me, but does not place a vote on her for it or mention anything about the Dannfor interaction. This feels different from the Lexi I played with and my mond immediately goes to "scum partners with dannfor?", but I know Lexi is a ruthless busser... but she does pretend to not notice things. It's not enough to drive a lynch on but it's another mark in my "lexi scum" column rather than my "lexi town" column.

#569 from Dannfor pinged me when I skimmed as off on tone and it's pinging me again now. Their hedge in #579 as senshi continues to spew flames everywhere is bad. I am frankly skimming the tana/senshi stuff again because it's boring as hell; it's gotten very emotionally loaded at this point and fights like that are rarely if ever AI IME. Also interesting that they ask after Bitmap in #583.

#589 has much better frustrated-town tone to it, but... I frankly cannot be arsed to read this senshi/tana fight. My eyes glaze over. It's long and sucky and bad. We've gotten into calls for mod intervention now. Over what looks like a pointless slapfight imo. Like, seriously, all five of you need to grow up and play the damn game. Dannfor expresses my own thoughts here in #635. Annnd moves off towards Pops. Interesting. I think towny.

Oh for crying out loud this goes on for two more pages?

... And Croag posts. And says they need to re-evaluate everything. Oh come on.

annd gameplay comes in and posts ACTUAL FUCKING CONTENT my SAVIOUR

and here I come in and make my vote

... You know, I think... Okay, no, this was never legit, if I'd been paying attention I'd have voted Dannfor. But I get why I did this, dumb as it was.

@Dannfor: You seem to be spinning things a lot, and it looks like you played the earlier situation for max chaos from the sidelines - knowing that RC and Krazy don't get along and both have poor tempers, your "hostile" comment takes on the aspect of being a lit match tossed onto gasoline from afar. I would like to hear more about why you voted Senshi initially, as your current explanation does not satisfy me; I would also like to hear a

real, solid

analysis of bitmap from you.

VOTE: Dannfor

... ugh, due diligence, let's iso the blighter... nothing that immediately makes me want to rescind this. @Dannfor I'm really looking forwards to your answers here.

[Lady Eventide]

Note: still not actually caught up, I'msomewhere in uhhhh 43? I lost my place going back to read the senshi fight. Please hold...

[Lady Eventide]

... Ok, more or less actually caught up now. Gamma back-off on bitmap feels weird and what the fuck is with that timing? Also, announcing day roleblockers are a thing??

[Lady Eventide]

Sailor, your thoughts on recent events?

Can Shiro bake a cookie?

I have a book with recipes for chocolate cookies. And I mean Titus I kinda started this LE thing and as of now my thoughts haven't really changed infact the

voting anyone that goes against them in an attempt to save face strengthens it.

I also do belive Katsuki should be lynched tommorow or vigged at night. I don't want to repeat heroes wanted. I really don't.

... people voting for me when I am town are statistically more likely to be mafia. That's how the game works, the scum wanto to drive MLs. I'm not trying to save face here; if I was trying to save face I'd be looking for someone uninvolved to make a case on. I'm not; instead I'm doing the hard work of sorting through my own wagon.

Like seriously, are you really arguing that I should just be ignoring these people despite knowing that at least one of them is likely scum?

[Lady Eventide]

@Dannfor: Please just provide the information and don't fucking make me have another row with you like I just had with Tana/Ephraim. I'm tired of having my motives questioned as an excuse to not engage with me. Aren't you trying to solve? I am trying to solve you.

Help.

[Lady Eventide]

... also it's 2 am

^^;;

lovely

[Lady Eventide]

... night all

[Lady Eventide]

Also, all the defenses and the attempts to form counterwagons to them have been some bullshit thus far.
Chaos wind being like "oh yeah that is so town" when all they did was vote DDL without giving reasons and repeatedly say they needed following up on.
Popsofctown avoiding calling them out in their readslist, then calling them scum after, then still not voting them.
RCE saying a ton of stuff that really doesn't make any sense to justify pushing on multiple different people.

~Ephraim

To address this and your previous posts:

1: What particular ways? You still have not given actual explanation of whatever supposed "tell" you're using.

2: So I'm weak scum despite my high charisma, huh?

3: Lilliare is a near total newbie to forum mafia, so if even

she's

seeing this remarkable certainty you're giving off, it's really there. Plus she quoted it. It's pretty clear that you're more confident here than you should be. That you choose to nitpick phrasing rather than engage with the argument that you seem like you have TMI speaks volumes.

Regarding counterwagons:
1: Chemist has meta on me so I'm not surprised by Chaos Wind's lack of votes.
2: Pops is concerning and worth investigation if your info here is correct.
3: RCE's actions seem entirely reasonable to me, and your characterizing them as "random" is NAGL.

4: Why are you backing off now if you're still convinced I'm scum?

PEdit: This is some pretty hardcore distancing if Tana/Pops S/S. Seems unlikely. Damn it. Looks like I need to look into both pops and tana more.

[Lady Eventide]

It's pretty clear that you're more confident here than you should be. That you choose to nitpick phrasing rather than engage with the argument that you seem like you have TMI speaks volumes.

If I hypothetically had TMI, wouldn't that still make you scum?

... No!?

What the christ. You're being over-certain which is a common scumtell. I should

not

have to explain something so basic to you.

Like I suppose I'd be down to lynch Pops instead but I'd still want to lynch LE after.

I hard townread Tana and Ephraim, can you do distancing plays with one direction going like that?

I mean, I don't really know. I don't really do like football playbook mafia when I roll scum. Might make me lose.

This is what makes it pretty hardcore if it's distancing.

What's so hardcore distancing? I'm putting her as a viable lynch somewhere down the line while not actively pushing her and encouraging the lynch to go elsewhere. That's barebones distancing at best.

Why are you encouraging me to scumread you and to believe in an associative you think is false?

4: Why are you backing off now if you're still convinced I'm scum?

Wait when did I back off?

You're now saying that you might lynch pops before me, while saying that your case on them is still weaker than mine and largely based on associatives with me.

That's a bad look.

Can we just lynch already? My detesting day 1 is really kicking in.

... Really interesting that it happened to kick in right now. Hrmmmm.

[Lady Eventide]

You're now saying that you might lynch pops before me, while saying that your case on them is still weaker than mine and largely based on associatives with me. That's a bad look.

What are you gonna do about it?

What do you think all my previous posts were, chopped liver?

Also, this:

VOTE: Tana and Ephraim

[Lady Eventide]

You're now saying that you might lynch pops before me, while saying that your case on them is still weaker than mine and largely based on associatives with me. That's a bad look.

What are you gonna do about it?

What do you think all my previous posts were, chopped liver?

Also, this:

VOTE: Tana and Ephraim

this is a bad vote

Why?

[Lady Eventide]

You're now saying that you might lynch pops before me, while saying that your case on them is still weaker than mine and largely based on associatives with me. That's a bad look.

What are you gonna do about it?

What do you think all my previous posts were, chopped liver?

Also, this:

VOTE: Tana and Ephraim

this is a bad vote

Why?

Well, for one, it won't do anything without 8 votes just like it, and that's not going to happen.

Sure as hell won't happen if not even

I'm

willing to post it in the first place. Also, this question was directed at Bitmap specifically, so please refrain from horning in.

[Lady Eventide]

I actually wasn't trying to earn your vote. I don't think I ever fake a townread on a player when I play scum. I try to think about what behaviors town!pops would townread or scumread and mimick that as closely as I can. I've come to realize that it results in bussing my partners too often, so I've been adjusting the scum side of that, but I haven't adjusted the town side of that very much.

I said I townread you because I thought town!pops would have townread you. I said I scumread your day 2 play because I thought town!pops would probably scumread your day 2 play. I only lied about nullreading my partner GoldenRobster and then when things started to narrow I had to fake scumreads on everyone but me of course.

I found it pretty surprising that RC moved his vote from LE onto CW after using pretty strong wording for how scummy he thinks I am, since that represents a heavy gap in judgment when I townread that slot. So I was curious to dig into why. He could convince me wrong. I'm not sure whether I'm persuaded yet but now I at least understand his perspective better.

Ok, I see somewhat. It's just that your play is close to what I see from scum!pops.

@LE: Why do you want to lynch the N1 kill bait? Also, pretty sure that slot is town based on Sakura's postings.

... because the scum are not going to just obligingly kill the people I want them to? T&E surviving the night tells me little to nothing about their alignment, because I know myself to be town and therefore scum might keep them alive just to ML me easier if I'm not dunked today.

They have had some towny moments but I also really do not like their pivots here, and I'm of the opinion that there's at least one scum in Sailor Senshi/Danforr/T&E based on their flareup. Senshi's been eliminated from my PoE by their defenses, so it's Dannfor and/or T&E. T&E are here to get reactions from so my pressure ought to be directed towards them and not Danforr rn.

Also looks like I need to reread Chaos Wind...

#188 seems stilted and over-formal. I don't like this entrance.
#715 slank excuse.
#971 was really really welcome given that everyone else was scumreading me at this time, but I feel like chemist ought to have... actually provided, like,

reasons

here. That they're right about me but give an incoherent reason why feels like an attempt to claim credit for being right when I flip. That they don't actually defend me says that they might actually want me to flip anyway.
Continues to defend me in #975 but continues to fail to make the meta argument I'd expect. Hmmm.
#982 is accurate and good but I still have concerns.

@Chaos Wind are you around?

Pedit @Tana:

"potentially being a less towny town than my SO who's barely ever played mafia before stings my pride, esp. as I've been having a bad run of getting lynched early as town recently."

I added this to my wall because it was the truth and a thought I was having? I don't like getting lynched D1 and I feel like I ought to be playing better than this? Seems like a weird question but whatever.

[Lady Eventide]

I added this to my wall because it was the truth and a thought I was having? I don't like getting lynched D1 and I feel like I ought to be playing better than this? Seems like a weird question but whatever.

It's mostly I was thinking back to you saying that AtE was a scumtell for you (in the picture you posted).
-Tana

AtE is a scumtell for anybody. That wasn't an attempt at it, though. Also, reckless disregard of my own image is a thing I do as town, because honesty kills scum.

@Bitmap: Okay, I can respect that.

Let me see...

VOTE: Croag

Where the bleep are you?

[Lady Eventide]

Content wise I barely like any of Lady E's posts. Especially the votes.
But the way she is overreacting and getting upset every time someone pressures/votes her gives me conflicting feelings
Idk what to get out of that
help

As for Chaos Wind he is meh.

Least content in the game rn so I don't really want a to lynch that.

I'm pretty sure you've literally forgotten Croag is in this game.

[Lady Eventide]

As for Chaos Wind he is meh. Least content in the game rn so I don't really want a to lynch that.

Nah, that's a reason to lynch that.

When you have a low slot with very little content and a very high percentage scummy, that's always a great lynch.

Not producing content is, itself, scum indicative, and even when it's town it's less likely that it was ever going to generate enough content to get out of your mislynch pool (with some exceptions like when a well-known player has a v/la.)

^ this, inactive lynches are good policy; people who do not contribute to solving are dead weight and ought to be lynched even if they end up being town.

[Lady Eventide]

Hey Pops, what are your current reads of Dannfor and RCE?

[Lady Eventide]

@Gameplay: Same question; what are your current reads of Dannfor and RCE?

[Lady Eventide]

Hmmmm.

Reread is saying that Bitmap is likely town to me. Which says...

VOTE: RCEnigma

I feel that your theory, if actually believed, ought to have led to a vote on Dannfor, not on Senshi. Why do you believe Senshi/Tana scum/scum before considering Dannfor at all?

[Lady Eventide]

Hmmmm.

Reread is saying that Bitmap is likely town to me. Which says...

VOTE: RCEnigma

I feel that your theory, if actually believed, ought to have led to a vote on Dannfor, not on Senshi. Why do you believe Senshi/Tana scum/scum before considering Dannfor at all?

Mmm can you explain

The theory they put forwards is that the tana/senshi fight was staged/inflamed to distract from the bitmap wagon. If so, then either A: Senshi and/or Tana have excellent acting skills in order to stage that, or B: Dannfor was an instigator from the sidelines. Having reread that section, B seems far more plausible to me.

[Lady Eventide]

@Wind: You gonna address my questions?

[Lady Eventide]

Hmmmm.

Reread is saying that Bitmap is likely town to me. Which says...

VOTE: RCEnigma

I feel that your theory, if actually believed, ought to have led to a vote on Dannfor, not on Senshi. Why do you believe Senshi/Tana scum/scum before considering Dannfor at all?

Mmm can you explain

The theory they put forwards is that the tana/senshi fight was staged/inflamed to distract from the bitmap wagon. If so, then either A: Senshi and/or Tana have excellent acting skills in order to stage that, or B: Dannfor was an instigator from the sidelines. Having reread that section, B seems far more plausible to me.

Well:

I think a partner,

or sailor

, intentionally used the conflict with Ephraim to divert pressure from your wagon.

So he could've possibly believed scenario A and thus his vote on Sailor does make sense, right?

He could have, I just don't understand why the hell he'd investigate that one

first

.

[Lady Eventide]

@Wind: You gonna address my questions?

Only one I saw was asking whether I was around which I think is pretty easy to answer

-Wind

Give me your read of me in full. Why am I town?

[Lady Eventide]

He could have, I just don't understand why the hell he'd investigate that one first.

I see, I see
And since you asked me about my read on RCE and Dann do you think they are buddies or just that RCE was trying to ml Sailor?

I think it's possible that RCE was literally talking about a strategy he used with Dannfor and pinning it on Senshi, yeah. His argument also comes with a built in excuse to back off: lynch bitmap or senshi, they flip green, whoops better reevaluate everything!

I don't like RCE's pushes on Sailor or Bitmap at all. Especially as they chose to push Sailor for their association with Bitmap rather than, y'know, Bitmap.

Right now I'm thinking there's at least one scum in Dann/RCE, and I very much want to hear everyone's reads on this.

@Senshi: I'm doing ny best, ok? You got any advice for me to improve, or are you just going to snark from the sidelines?

[Lady Eventide]

Right now I'm thinking there's at least one scum in Dann/RCE, and I very much want to hear everyone's reads on this.

I really don't like "There must be in scum in subset X" minigames. I feel like it just gives you more chances to mess up, once when you setup the group, then again if you miss as you select within the group.

I'd have to be sold on Dannflor or RCE being independently scummy for the things they've done.

Both of them are. RCE's doing this weird shit with Bitmap and Senshi, and Dann reads very much as instigating. The fact that I've put these two reads together into a larger picture ought not to be causing you distress IMO; though I do understand the broader principle against lynch chaining, I don't think it applies here, since I'm not saying Dann's alignment implies much about RCE's or vice versa.

[Lady Eventide]

Hmmmm.

Reread is saying that Bitmap is likely town to me. Which says...

VOTE: RCEnigma

I feel that your theory, if actually believed, ought to have led to a vote on Dannfor, not on Senshi. Why do you believe Senshi/Tana scum/scum before considering Dannfor at all?

Mmm can you explain

The theory they put forwards is that the tana/senshi fight was staged/inflamed to distract from the bitmap wagon. If so, then either A: Senshi and/or Tana have excellent acting skills in order to stage that, or B: Dannfor was an instigator from the sidelines. Having reread that section, B seems far more plausible to me.

How did Dann instigate anything?

They're the original poster to describe the interaction as "hostile", a read I don't agree with at the time they posted it and that T&E almost immediately used as ammo against you. They also seemed very ambivalent about the whole interaction.

I also generally assume any fight of this type is going to be encouraged by if not outright caused by scum, because it impedes solving. Given that not Tana and not you, Dannfor is the most likely culprit as the most active other contributor to the discussion.

Pedit: Chaos Wind... gutfeel town, but I may have been pocketed. My read here is not at all settled and I want to hear more.

Pops feels scummy but I don't have strong evidence either way. Would not lynch rn.

egh mowing again, back in like 2 hrs probably

[Lady Eventide]

im sorry i he/she wronged you eventide - hydras make gendering hard. but 1022 I don't think is a town post. There's some objective faults such as 1) I was your second vote after Bitmap, and 2) what I'm posting are not walls, its ISOs without the quotes. I mean, with a game advancing so fast, it's kind of necessary to do it. My "fluff" as you say are when I'm online and can directly engage. 3) Not sure why you unvoted since I continued that pattern, and are vote hopping around so much.

@LE: is it that your reads are changing that frequently?

No, it's that you were not available to engage. Talk to me about RCE, Sailor and Dannfor. Also yes I acknowledge they're ISOs, sorry for my imprecision.

[Lady Eventide]

Right now I'm thinking there's at least one scum in Dann/RCE, and I very much want to hear everyone's reads on this.

I really don't like "There must be in scum in subset X" minigames. I feel like it just gives you more chances to mess up, once when you setup the group, then again if you miss as you select within the group.

I'd have to be sold on Dannflor or RCE being independently scummy for the things they've done.

RCE’s shade on us re: Bitmap wagon: crazy or scummy?

Both, there is no contradiction.

[Lady Eventide]

Right now I'm thinking there's at least one scum in Dann/RCE, and I very much want to hear everyone's reads on this.

I really don't like "There must be in scum in subset X" minigames. I feel like it just gives you more chances to mess up, once when you setup the group, then again if you miss as you select within the group.

I'd have to be sold on Dannflor or RCE being independently scummy for the things they've done.

Both of them are. RCE's doing this weird shit with Bitmap and Senshi, and Dann reads very much as instigating. The fact that I've put these two reads together into a larger picture ought not to be causing you distress IMO; though I do understand the broader principle against lynch chaining, I don't think it applies here, since I'm not saying Dann's alignment implies much about RCE's or vice versa.

Except you're changing order of events and actions to fit your narrative which is scummy af.

If I'm confused I would love to see the evidence that proves me wrong here.

[Lady Eventide]

The characterization of me as an "instigator" is... I don't know what but not something I feel very enthusiastic about engaging in.

I'm not really interested in

nor do I have the time to do

a thorough analysis of Bitmap, Lady E. I don't have a read I'm confident in on that slot right now.

Gun to head probably town.

... if you don't have a solid read of the slot, why on earth aren't you interested in analyzing it?

[Lady Eventide]

Hey who made the post where they were like setting up a dichotomy between two players' vote shifting patterns, one of which was Dannflor? Early in the game

LE I think.

Pretty damn sure that wasn't me. I'll go look it up once I finish catchup, because that does seem intriguing.

[Lady Eventide]

"It looks to me gameplay felt the need to justify their actions when most of us really dont
I haven't seen Titus make a read like that as a villager but she probably twisted gameplay's posts as over justifying"

So in other words... You think Titus is twisting gameplay's words, but you believe them anyway?

@Cafe Stiles: This seriously needs explaining.

Pedit @RCEnigma: I don't like you saying "I wasn't voting them therefore I can't have been pushing them"; that feels like scumlogic to me. I'll check your other claims once I'm not in class. (~2hrs.)

[Lady Eventide]

It wasn't a push, dann asked about my theory and how sailor could fit into it. I obliged.

Please cite this post, that's highly interesting

[Lady Eventide]

I think a partner, or sailor, intentionally used the conflict with Ephraim to divert pressure from your wagon.

You think Sailor is Bitmap's partner?

I'm not really sure how this theory makes sense honestly

The first interaction I see between you and Dannflor is this post, where he's responding to your intimation that sailor could be scum. Okay. So then after this you go on to say...

... that this was Dannflor narrowing things on you in #1049. Interesting.

#1314 also pushes the scales towards the Dann-scum side for me. Your story is consistent and you've maintained it almost since you made the comment in the first place. I even get a good reason why you're not voting Dannflor here.

Okay, I'm mistaken here.

VOTE: Dannflor

[Lady Eventide]

Wow, like six pages of useless flaming overnight. Mafia must be laughing and laughing right now.

And it all started with pressure being put on Sailor Senshi, so guess where my vote's going?

VOTE: Sailor Senshi

If the thread explodes when someone gets pressured, >rand they're scum.

VOTE: Lady Evenitde This is because of stuff that happened due to emotion are you kidding me right now? You’re not this bad, no one is this bad. Because this isn’t even a ‘town scum’ thing it’s reading basic human emotion and how it went out of control. If you read the last few pages at all you would see this

anyone

would see that. This is just scum who is taking advantage of the gamestate

Mental self-reminder: Enigma/Dann/Lady

Not townreading Sailor from that exchange, but the wagon seems to be organically dying so...

VOTE: gameplay

Titus, why this? Gameplays reactions are the exact ones I would make myself in a lot of time in the last few pages. I get you were scumreading them early but has none of the posts they made you go ‘hm?’

@Sakura/RC I refuse to read you guys until you cut the bs ate fighting I’ll read your other posts but sweet jesus.

Cool.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

I'm noticing that despite acknowledging my arguments, you haven't actually done anything about them.

-E

Why the change of vote here? Side note, I myself should prob read LLD so hopefully she posts!

It's time I got serious about this shit so let's do a readslist. All this is based on ISOs 'cause I'm lazy tbqh.


It's time I got serious about this shit so let's do a readslist. All this is based on ISOs 'cause I'm lazy tbqh.

>Doing a read lists under pressure when they called out gameplay for not doing something ‘right away’
So, to use your own words. Why didn’t you do that read list before you got pressed?

Because I got interrupted in the middle of doing it. I got two people into my first version of this before I ended up having to go off and mow the lawn.

As for the concept of a dann/me/Enigma scumteam... honestly that's outright laughable to me. Please keep reading, I think you'll see why.

LLD said she'd play today. I'm eagerly awaiting her proper entrance.

[Lady Eventide]

Re: #1443:

My vote for dolittle is partially based on info I have from my role and as such I'd prefer not to discuss it. They're looking better right now though, for reasons.

[Lady Eventide]

#1449:

I townread that. Lack of caring about others' opinions is generally town.

Also, I would love to hear your larger case on Scum!Emerald; I had been reading them town but now I'm worried I may be pocketed.

[Lady Eventide]

Also idk where my vote is at rn(pops?) but I wanna UNVOTE: and do something useful with it
Like starting a gamma wagon
Anyone ?

It's not like you need my or anyone else's permission.

[Lady Eventide]

Yea, Lady E grant permission please

Ms. Lilliare has been passed your request. <3

[Lady Eventide]

Hey RC, if you ever think I'm going to read a game that pumps out 60pgs over the span of a single weekend, you're sorely mistaken.

I'll work my magic when the game becomes more playable, but not before then.

And if you are shot in the night?

[Lady Eventide]

... @Katsuki: I think it is relevant to note that your current level of contribution compares unfavorably to both Chaos Wind and Cafe Stiles. You barely have more presence than

Croag.

I don't really care how much of a hotshot scumfinder you supposedly are; lurking to lategame like this is unacceptable behaviour, and T&E are right to call you on it.

[Lady Eventide]

Then fun things will happen.

I'll take this opportunity to say that if there is some retard out there who would ever consider vigging me, don't do it N1. I can easily break this game so scum if you're gonna NK, come at me.

Nice wine, plus a personal attack and a blatant attempt to direct night actions. Really not seeing anything here that endears you to me.

Go on, please tell this "retard" why you deserve a free pass.

VOTE: Katsuki

[Lady Eventide]

Can you like
Pressure people without changing your vote every 2 pages?

Actions speak louder than words. Votes are town's primary weapons; leaving them idle is not a good thing.

[Lady Eventide]

uhhh so I know this is a 180 but I think Lady is town

Why?

[Lady Eventide]

... @Katsuki: I think it is relevant to note that your current level of contribution compares unfavorably to both Chaos Wind and Cafe Stiles. You barely have more presence than

Croag.

I don't really care how much of a hotshot scumfinder you supposedly are; lurking to lategame like this is unacceptable behaviour, and T&E are right to call you on it.

Unacceptable behavior?

I've been barely lurking for 3 days (if this even constitutes as lurking when I've been posting every day), you haven't even seen me prod-dodging for two months yet.

... Does anybody townread this?

[Lady Eventide]

@LLD: If you have any useful info re: site culture, I'd appreciate it. I've heard MS described as "cutthroat" and "very emotional", in the context of G5 being "the most mafiascum game ever" by certain MU people I now forget the names of. Should I be expecting more flaming and AtE?

[Lady Eventide]

@LLD: If you have any useful info re: site culture, I'd appreciate it. I've heard MS described as "cutthroat" and "very emotional", in the context of G5 being "the most mafiascum game ever" by certain MU people I now forget the names of. Should I be expecting more flaming and AtE?

You shouldn't expect it to play out like any MU game I'll say that much. It's hard for me to tell you what to expect because frankly if I poison the well on you I don't know if I can read your progression from where you are now to how you naturalize into this environment.

See: Frog in the pot.

I mean, this in itself is affecting how I naturalize. Now I'm incentivised to actually go read other games, since you're being unhelpful.

[Lady Eventide]

@Lady Eventide, I did take the liberty of rereading Bitmap's ISO. I know you wanted a thorough analysis but I don't have the time to do that today. I will say though that my original gut town feelings completely disappeared. What's your read on him? Also I would appreciate it if you answered why you were interested in that read from me specifically

I was interested in that read from you because you'd made a lot of noise about him in both directions, and RCE's theory would place you and them as scum together. As such your opinion on them has a strong chance of actually modifying my opinion of you.

While your wall here is good and towny overall at first glance, I'm still going to hold my vote on you until I get some more analysis. You seem very flip-floppy on Bit's slot and I don't know what's up with that.

Right now I've got a town gutread on Bitmap from my last dive into their ISO, hence my vote passing back to RCE and then back to you. Your current scumread is interesting, but still contains approximately zero actual reasons. Seriously, give me some answers here; your continued inability to produce reasoning on

this particular read

is making my eyebrows rise.

[Lady Eventide]

Isn't just random chance 1/4 anyway.

Pops, join me on Bitmap. When I was voting Lady, I was obviously town. When I swap to Bitmap, shade police come.

This smacks of lynch chaining and I do not like it one bit. My vote belongs on Dann flor right now, but consider this a FoS.

@Dannflor: WHAT

"pretty sure I specifically hadn't mentioned Bitmap at all before you asked me because I didn't have a read"

Posts #90, #447, #468, #515, #583, #979, #1021, #1029, #1031, #1058, #1061 all mention bitmap before my first mention of them to you in #1110. You had mentioned them a LOT in multiple other posts, and you seem to both scum and town read them in this period. You start by voting them, then shift to a town read, then shift back to "Idk I guess" when I question you on it. It's frankly weird how often you mention them without ever actually engaging with them.

[Lady Eventide]

Wasn't LLD just inactive when you were voting Lady E?

And can we please use names that uniquely identify a player.

Please Please Please Please

Uhhh, can you rephrase this? I'm not following what you're trying to say.

[Lady Eventide]

Isn't just random chance 1/4 anyway.

Pops, join me on Bitmap. When I was voting Lady, I was obviously town. When I swap to Bitmap, shade police come.

This smacks of lynch chaining and I do not like it one bit. My vote belongs on Dann flor right now, but consider this a FoS.

@Dannflor: WHAT

"pretty sure I specifically hadn't mentioned Bitmap at all before you asked me because I didn't have a read"

Posts #90, #447, #468, #515, #583, #979, #1021, #1029, #1031, #1058, #1061 all mention bitmap before my first mention of them to you in #1110. You had mentioned them a LOT in multiple other posts, and you seem to both scum and town read them in this period. You start by voting them, then shift to a town read, then shift back to "Idk I guess" when I question you on it. It's frankly weird how often you mention them without ever actually engaging with them.

That is 11 posts out of 69 (nice) that mention bitmap. That's more than 1/7 of your entire ISO by that point. I think I'm pretty justified in being outright incredulous at "

I'm pretty sure I hadn't mentioned bitmap at all before

".

[Lady Eventide]

Isn't just random chance 1/4 anyway.

Pops, join me on Bitmap. When I was voting Lady, I was obviously town. When I swap to Bitmap, shade police come.

This smacks of lynch chaining and I do not like it one bit. My vote belongs on Dann flor right now, but consider this a FoS.

@Dannflor: WHAT

"pretty sure I specifically hadn't mentioned Bitmap at all before you asked me because I didn't have a read"

Posts #90, #447, #468, #515, #583, #979, #1021, #1029, #1031, #1058, #1061 all mention bitmap before my first mention of them to you in #1110. You had mentioned them a LOT in multiple other posts, and you seem to both scum and town read them in this period. You start by voting them, then shift to a town read, then shift back to "Idk I guess" when I question you on it. It's frankly weird how often you mention them without ever actually engaging with them.

That should be read as Lady's more likely to be town because I wasn't pushed while voting you but I was for Botmap.

Okay, that is a lot more reasonable. Consider my FoS withdrawn.

[Lady Eventide]

@Titus: Who do you feel you've been getting the most pressure from? Who should I be looking at as a potential bitmap scumpartner, assuming bitmap scum?

[Lady Eventide]

@Titus: Who do you feel you've been getting the most pressure from? Who should I be looking at as a potential bitmap scumpartner, assuming bitmap scum?

LLD, Gameplay, minor you and pops right now.

Definitely gameplay would be my next flip.

I'd do VCA for stronger answers.

Does this change at all if you assume Bitmap not scum, Gameplay scum?

[Lady Eventide]

@Titus: Who do you feel you've been getting the most pressure from? Who should I be looking at as a potential bitmap scumpartner, assuming bitmap scum?

LLD, Gameplay, minor you and pops right now.

Definitely gameplay would be my next flip.

I'd do VCA for stronger answers.

Does this change at all if you assume Bitmap not scum, Gameplay scum?

If Bitmap's not scum, I'd look at people off wagons in the short term to try and short which major wagon if any was right. I would suspect you/Sailor but I'd be open to scum chasing tails.

Tbh I would want a major wagon flip for VCA but not wedded to it. Major or lurker.

What do you think about my case on Dannfor as a potential Bitmap scumpartner? Sorry if you said this and I missed it.

[Lady Eventide]

Posts #90, #447, #468, #515, #583, #979, #1021, #1029, #1031, #1058, #1061 all mention bitmap before my first mention of them to you in #1110. You had mentioned them a LOT in multiple other posts, and you seem to both scum and town read them in this period. You start by voting them, then shift to a town read, then shift back to "Idk I guess" when I question you on it. It's frankly weird how often you mention them without ever actually engaging with them.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Bitmap

I don't feel like Lady Eventide's posts have been that from town lately. Too mechanical and no scumhunting.

VOTE: Lady Eventide

This is essentially why I voted here as I was skimming the thread earlier.

Basically, the slot had continued making fluff posts while actual content was being produced between Titus and gameplay, then her first "real post" was purely mechanical. She throws down a vote on Titus in #242 that's not attached to anything and seems to be just voting for the sake of putting a vote down on a wagon. The OMGUS vote in #271 shows there wasn't really any strong reasoning attached to the previous vote.

Nothing since then has improved the slot for me. The hop onto Pops is reads very awkward.

Idk what you consider "mentioning bitmap" but this is him talking to bitmap?

Yeah, Gamma's push on Bitmap is bad, but I think it's the town sort of bad.

I guess this is kind of a mention but he's talking about Gamma.

unless I feel like Bitmap or pops is actually worth a push.

What on earth makes this a worthy push

Wasnt this refering to Krazy's push on our slot?

UNVOTE:

why

I like the reasoning against Senshi, yet it's also several slots that might townspew if there's town to spew, which leaves me somewhat torn.

Did your feelings on Bitmap change at all?

Inquiring about your read on bitmap... I guess this is kind of a mention.

I just don't know what makes DDL more deserving over Bitmap, HH, or Chaos Wind who she claimed to also not have a read on / or needed to contribute more

This is related to 4 names someone had mentioned? didnt go check exactly who mentioned what.

Wagons have been attempted on Sailor and Bitmap

This is just information.

I think a partner, or sailor, intentionally used the conflict with Ephraim to divert pressure from your wagon.

You think Sailor is Bitmap's partner?

I'm not really sure how this theory makes sense honestly

Ok this is a mention and somewhat of an stance.

What exactly about that conflict made you think it was manufactured to draw pressure away from Bitmap?

Inquiring.

C.) I've been exploring a hypothetical why the distraction would occur and Dann narrowed it into "RCE thinks Sailor is bits partner." Which is not what I said.

How is this distraction orchestrated if that's not what you believe

Sailor as town purposefully tries to distract from the Bitmap wagon?

I'm not following

Inquiring again.

Playing devil's advocate the case can be made that scum took advantage of you vs Ephraim as the catalyst. Which is what I was getting at when I alluded to the implication on LE's slot.

Oh okay

I'm still not sure how that gets you to Bitmap is scum

Like I don't know what exactly about the conflict is tipping you off that it was either a distraction or utilized as a distraction

Inquiring yet again.

Fact checking, did you just iso and ctrl+f bitmap
-Tana

Yep. And I don't deny that a lot of these mentions are tangential. It's just... I would expect that someone who you've mentioned offhandedly in 1/7 of your posts, and placed a vote on,

might actually be someone you should be invested in solving? Just maybe??

@Dannflor: Yeah, I'm not saying that you were pushing them or anything; if anything I'm surprised that you manage to mention them this much without ever actually... coming around to focus on them? Sorry, I was a bit incredulous at your original statement due to knowing that I'd seem multiple comments from you referencing Bitmap, but even with the initial shock having worn off I still think there's something of substance here to look into.

[Lady Eventide]

Continuing from my previous post: Instead I got this weird halfassed reply from Dann where he says he's not interested in bitmap and doesn't understand why I care about them. (First in #1110 where he says that my request "seems random", and then more elaborately in #1330, where he admits to having no strong read but still refuses to put one together. It's now been almost 24 hours since then, and I still do not have my analysis from Dann. This does not endear them to me.)

Pedit @Dannflor:

It's frankly a gutread based on tone, and a bit stale besides at this point, given that I've reconsidered RCE scum. The fact that you've apparently reconsidered your townread makes me want to reread them again; I don't have a solid read here either, though their posts seem individually solve-y and good? I definitely do need to have another look at them. Sigh.

... looking at the pops interaction, I have to say I agree with you. The continued long-running suspicion of Pops throughout the whole day so far is frankly starting to give me the heebie-jeebies; I think they may be ML-bait, so the push itself is potentially bad even before I look at the reasoning and find it questionable. I also don't like that Bitmap bothered to reply "no" to my question of "does anyone townread this" re: Katsuki; that's a useless comment, but it feels like the kind of thing that you do to look town as scum. And their refusal to answer questions about their early play is also NAGL.

... innnnnteresting.

Also, should I take it that this means you're now seriously endorsing a scumread of Bitmap?

[Lady Eventide]

Anyway. LE is scum. They need to die.

You should really be listening to Tana on this one, Ephiraim. You're wrong and embarrassingly so.

LE: 1484 "Actions speak louder than words. Votes are town's primary weapons; leaving them idle is not a good thing." If your votes are so fleeting, then they are as if no weapons at all.

Trust me, I understand the concept. It's lack of meta on me here that's making people take my votes less seriously than they ought, IMO.

Dannflor [X]: I absolutely disagree with the "hostile" thrown in Dann's way in lighting up SS vs T&E. In fact, I also thought it was personal attacks, but E cleared it up later on. I also disagree with Dann's readlist in 1558 for a lot of parts, but I respect it.

Also, can you clarify this a bit? Does this mean you disagree with my theory, or disagree with Dann's actions?

I’m still null on him but his pushing T + E for what reads to me as an NAI comment, is pinging me. I disagree with you that Dann hasn’t provided reasons.

I'm not seeing the kind of actual attention and analysis on bitmap that I would expect of a townie. There's some really basic level shit but it's fairly unsettled and he still hasn't demonstrated that he's put in the work to actually develop a real read of bit. Until that happens I'm pretty chill with my vote staying here.

I don’t understand this at all, since Dann is currently voting him and he has decent odds of getting lynched. I seriously doubt scum!Dann hardbusses on D1, unless his survival literally depended on it. I don’t understand how you even think they’re linked. I also strongly tl him rn - Dann.

That

is

some pretty strong evidence against the scumteam; thanks for pointing that out. I'm becoming deeply inclined towards 'solve bitmap' as my current goal.

Tana and Ephraim

- I mean, I see why 1379 could flip Hideri off (The only argument I can say is that 120 is my complete RVS). Other than that, I feel like RC makes towny posts and I find 1601 to be a bit from a town perspective.

Hidden Happiness

- I don't like the last line at 1663 but I guess that's because it's MariaR so...

Chaos Wind

- I don't know man, 971 felt just like they're trying to hop on and help. Not sure if that's AI though.

Croag

- Okay, he has 4 posts? I never expected someone to post just as less as me (Maika). Cannot generate a read.

Bitmap

- His ISO looks like a wall of quotes. Not townread for sure due to his one-liners.

RCEnigma

- His posts are too normal this game. I'd say null.

Dannflor

- I generally like how he reason stuffs in 1558. Also his interaction with Bitmap doesn't seem like he could be partners with Bitmap, or even if he's a scum at all. Townlean.

Sailor Senshi

- The conflict aside, I really like how they engage in this game a lot. Locktown.

Cafe Stile

- We're town. We really mean it.

Gamma Emerald

- I see nice posts (1079 1127) but I also see a lot of fluff.

popsofctown

- I was triggered by 1246 but that's just a personal feeling, I like his attitudes to the game. (Also purple really hurts my eyes please change.)

DrDoLittle

- Hmmm. Hideri says he has some scum pings, but I don't feel like his posts are from a scum perspective.

Titus

- I don't like how he started, he looks greener at around 965 but I guess that's it for my thoughts. I don't townread her, but in the same time, I feel like her activity this game is too strange to look scummy.

Lady Eventide

- They're looking green for me. They're being a bit helpful to twon the way that Sailor Senshi does.

Lady Lambdadelta

- She being flipped off on page 63 really pings town to me.

gameplay506

- Okay I guess?

Katsuki

- Also lurks.

Don't ask much for more evidence since this is just merely my impressions, Hideri probably will disagree with some of my reads here and tl;dr I suck.

-Maika

This is a terrible readslist for multiple reasons. No scumreads, very little explanation, contradicts things you've said earlier. 3/10 near-voteworthy. Updating with "Oh and Croag is my biggest scumlean" just looks worse, despite my agreeing with you; put some effort in, damn it.

Annnnd the wagon seems to be rolling back towards me as soon as T&E call it over. Sure, whatever.

... I think at this point I really, really want to hear more from Cafe Stiles, esp. as Lambda is townreading Croag. The thought process I'm expecting is just not there.

VOTE: Cafe Stiles

[Lady Eventide]

Since I'm being suspected again, looks like it's time for a Readslist

I'm going to be blunt: Saying "I think this person is scum" or "I think this person is town" is more about the social aspect of the game to me than the solving part of the game. It's easy to say, and there are always reasons to scum or town read anyone. Interacting with information is easy and it's not a problem for most people to make up fake, consistent reads.

What it's not easy to do is

generate

information. And scum have to do that. They have to falsify continually. This is why I care more about the reasons for a read than the read itself; reads, to me, are just announcements of "I think this guy is on my team." Towny -> "My ally", Scummy -> "My enemy."

This may be an insane way of playing the game to some, but frankly there's no such thing as a universal scumtell/towntell. All I can do is force the wolves to keep producing content. Eventually, that's going to lead to someone fucking up.

… except of course that's not the complete picture. Because the other half of it is mirroring, empathy, understanding. So, here's my

real

readslist:

Sailor Senshi:
- Prefers to not put in effort, but once prodded takes it as a matter of pride to be louder than everyone else.
- Genuinely reconsidered their read on me.
- Exposes their thought process. Not afraid to be loud.
- Overall, generating a lot of information. Not someone I want to lynch.

Dannfor:
- Refuses to engage with people they scumread.
- Seems to prefer an observer/analyst role, but broke character to try and intervene in the Senshi/Tana fight. A compassionate/diplomatic streak is possible, but their refusal to engage with thought-scum doesn't tally with that. Their reactions to me also don't seem to bear this out.
- Overall, either difficult to read or scum. I'm not averse to solving this slot with a lynch.

Tana/Ephiraim:
Ephiraim head:
- Deeply opiniated and tunnels hard. Has a very high opinion of their own play level, deeply prideful.
- Doesn't expose their reasoning for their reads, probably because they 1: don't think anyone else will be able to follow it and 2: don't feel that they owe anyone else anything. Honestly believes that they can solve the entire game by themselves.
- Doesn't give a fuck about looking inconsistent, because they're above that.
- Overall, an extremely strong player. Large portions of their presentation are probably a masking persona.
- Does have a hot-tempered streak. When combined with their pride, this makes them manipulable through their anger and their unwillingness to consider that they might be wrong.
- Reminds me a lot of Acionyx from MSPA, and probably has a similar meta - either is NK'd early, is left alive for wine reasons by those who think they can direct that anger, or is an extremely good power/open wolf. The "lynch by assertion" behavior is deep mafia-skill and speaks to his local reputation.
- Leave them alive and see if they get NK'd. If they live, watch for others trying to push suspicion on them; scum may attempt a paranoia lynch. If no paranoia lynch manifests,

then

actually get paranoid.

Tana head:
- Weaker player than Ephiraim, and selfconcious about it even when she thinks he's making mistakes. Unwilling to overrule her hydra partner.
- Very open with her emotions. I can see why Ephiraim wants her in the hydra to improve his legibility; it's a warding measure against the paranoia lynch d2/3 if town and d4/5 if scum.
- Compassionate/thoughtful streak. Sees me as town but unwilling to really make a strong case on that to Ephiraim because she's the junior partner and he's got an ego the size of a planet.
- Overall I wish this hydra had a more equal partnership; Ephi has the power, Tana the heart. If they were actually working together they'd be pretty much unstoppable. Then again, maybe I should be happy they're not. ^^;;

Café Stile:
- Not super invested in the game. Have been present, but noncontributing.
- Heads are difficult to differentiate. Hideri is more casual, Maika more formal. Both seem relatively weak players, but that may just be lack of engagement.
- I may be being played here, because of reasons.
- Respect RC deeply, don't feel that they can read him… but then attempted to read him anyway in their most recent readslist. Why do they say one thing and do another?
- Their attempts to contribute as of being called on not contributing are poorly assembled and shaky. I want to exert more pressure here; if they don't demonstrate they're actually reading more deeply, they're a potential lynch as a noncontributor with decent scum equity.

Croag:
- Slank as fuck.
- Either the wolves are deeply frustrated about that right now, or they're happy that a townie's gonna get vigged instead of them.
- Their playstyle, based on the four posts I've got, looks like Hyena - very crazy, do-whatever-to-get-reactions, generally a shit disturber. Kind of glad they aren't actually playing.
- Not worth a lynch; let the vig get to them.

RCEnigma:
- Known for moonlogic. That says to me that they might play like me - emotive/tonereader, does a lot of gutreading and paranoia cases.
- This's been borne out so far in my interactions with them, though they've seemed in some ways more analytical than me.
- Seems to be playing this game relatively 'straight' compared to their reputation. Either this site is highly biased towards analytical play (not what I expect) or they're outside their usual range. Given that they're being highly scumread, the latter seems more likely.
- However, they've been very forthcoming and able to engage with weird ideas/twists on their theories on a factual basis. Doesn't just dismiss my ideas out of hand, but puts in effort to actually consider them.
- Overall, I don't want to lynch here today. Though I might come back to this slot later, I want to give them time to convince me that they're just playing this game differently from usual.

Lady Lambdadelta:
- Is Lady Lambda-fucking-delta. Scary as hell. Best wolf I know.
- Seems to be not super invested in the game, which goes against what I know of her. Then again, life is a thing.
- Her general wait-and-see attitude towards me strikes me as questionable, but it's not worth getting into a fight with her over.
- Overall, there are a lot of little things that are getting tallied into my 'scum Lexi' column and not much that's getting tallied into my 'town Lexi' column. I expect more impact on the game from an experienced player like her.

Katsuki:
- Doesn't give a fuck about pressure.
- Openly laughs at attempts to get her lynched early.
- Again, strong-player vibes, this time in the vein of CuriousCat with a sprinkling of Nictis.
- Resorts to personal insults very very easily. Might be part of the persona, might be genuine annoyance.
- Probably not worth pressure this early, despite her blatantly anti-town behavior. Kat gonna Kat. (What is up with players like this having animal names?)

Dr. Dolittle:
- Feels like english isn't their native language.
- Seems to prefer shortform ISOs, but also engages RTA when they can. Atypical playstyle; most do only one or the other. Not a turtle, not a nictis, not a cat, not a hyena. Despite my lack of grasp on how they think, they seem to be contributing as best they can; I want to take time to figure this slot out, would not lynch today.

Chaos Wind:
- Seems to be composed solely of Chemist.
- Chemist tends to be an analytical, 'far' player. Their memeiness here is unusual.
- Unfortunately, their lack of forthcomingness and poor activity are fairly typical.
- Did not respond seriously to a vote from me. Which is pretty typical, actually.
- Overall, meh. Given that they're townreading me though, not a priority; can be sorted later.

Hidden Happiness:
- Relatively little content. Open with what content they're produced.
- Townreading me, can be sorted later due to lack of threat.

Bitmap:
- Casual player, but seems a bit more formal about reads. I need direct interactions here; reading the ISO is just not cutting it. Current impression is both decently skilled and contributing, but… needs investigating.

Pops:
- Either not paying attention or not good at talking. I feel like it's some of both; some of their posts are near-incoherent. Easy ML bait if town.
- Have been under near constant low-grade suspicion ever since daystart, which is giving me the heebie-jeebies.
- I wouldn't really miss them given that they seem relatively unskilled, but they genuinely seem to be trying and I want to give them a chance to improve. Not going to lynch them today.

Gameplay:
- Another relatively casual player. Feels genuine, in the sort of hyena/classically townie mold. Doesn't feel super skilled, could be ML bait.
- Not really worth a lot of investigation, will probably self-sort by D3 just based on their current play.
- LLD's comment re: their "help I'm town" cry feels good to me; reminds me of them hard defending another weak townie in G5. NAI for LLD, but likely legit AI for Gameplay.

Titus:
- I have no idea what this slot is doing. They give the impression of being experienced, but then they keep doing weirdass shit. Hyena-style player?
- Their pushes at me feel badly justified, especially that they want to freeze the wagons now that I'm back under the microscope.
- I was leaning T/T on the titus/gameplay fight earlier. Am I letting their push at me affect my opinion too much?
- Overall, a difficult slot. Might be worth a lynch just to remove the random factor.

Gamma Emerald:
- Feels like a classical Grapefruit or Comiturtle style poster. Analytical, thinks things through, makes their reasons for things clear. Not all their actions are good, but they all proceed from sensible reasonings.
- If they're scum and they keep this up for the entire rest of the game, I feel like they deserve to win at that point. Not lynching unless they do something egregious.
- May be worth noting that they haven't posted for over 24 hours at this point, though.

[Lady Eventide]

Is IIoA part of MU site culture

Oh fuck off.

On second thought... Nah, still fuck off. This is a good post (if I do say so myself) and I'm not gonna engage you when you've obviously not read it.

[Lady Eventide]

interested in more thoughts on this

does anyone else think that LE's previous post does not tonally match the rest of their posting this game at all and could potentially have been written by someone else

*laughs*

Oh my god you're so off

this is the god of mafia??

like, wow

it's me

not even lily's here

the degree to which you haven't read wildcard 1 is just becoming more and more obvious; seriously, read my SOD2 wall and my posts following, I have a very wide range of presentation and this is in no way atypical for me.

lol

"someone else"


Pedit: Oh, damn it, didn't include a key.

Analyst players I used for comparison:
Comiturtle: Player on SV, very quiet, good at analysis but prone to having his entirely correct reads ignored.
Grapefruit21: Player on MU, similar to Comi but with a bit more presence.

Crazy/Maverick/Gutreader players:
Hyena: Player on MU, very FPS-y, puts pressure on everyone randomly just to see what happens, fond of reaction tests. Scumread even when town.

Strong Presence/Townleader-y players:
Acionyx: Player on MSPAFA back in like 2011; very aggressive, bullying town-leader persona, very fond of REASONS and VCA; often nightkilled, when not NK'd often scum.
Nictis: Player from SV. Like Acionyx, but with less control over his temper and far worse reads. Very big presence, often a detrimental influence on games because he gets shit wrong, loudly, and never reconsiders.

Lurking/Observer type players:
CuriousCat: Another MSPAFA poster. Known for being damn near indistinguishable town/scum and never posting anything of substance on D1. "Cat gonna cat" was the constant refrain. This is her avi, I have it saved:

[Lady Eventide]

LE, why don't you investigate Bitmap given that he's the other major wagon right now? You haven't felt interested in figuring him out even though he's been voting you multiple times.

You're telling me what I already know, thanks. Got distracted by Stiles because they're being seriously weird.

...

I may regret this next bit, but I think at this point it's important to explain.

I'm neighbours with both Stiles and Croag. Which is why my Stiles read affects my Croag read and vice versa. Stiles was also the one who originally suggested I look into Dolittle based on their 'chainsaw' reasoning; I followed their advice, and then multiple people scumread me for it, so I'm feeling kind of played. That neighbour chat is also where they made their comment that they couldn't read you - which they then contradicted by trying to read you anyway. It could just be that it's the two different heads disagreeing (they haven't been signing their posts) but I'm still really wondering why they said one thing in private and another thing in public.

The neighbour chat is damn near useless to me at this point because 1: I don't trust Stiles and 2: Croag is slank as fuck or else lurking, so even if I did trust Stiles it's not secure. I also think the chance of anyone in the neighbourhood being NK'd is already low enough that this is unlikely to change the scum's NK math. As such, best to make it clear what the fuck I've been doing here.

[Lady Eventide]

LE, why don't you investigate Bitmap given that he's the other major wagon right now? You haven't felt interested in figuring him out even though he's been voting you multiple times.

You're telling me what I already know, thanks. Got distracted by Stiles because they're being seriously weird.

...

I may regret this next bit, but I think at this point it's important to explain.

I'm neighbours with both Stiles and Croag. Which is why my Stiles read affects my Croag read and vice versa. Stiles was also the one who originally suggested I look into Dolittle based on their 'chainsaw' reasoning; I followed their advice, and then multiple people scumread me for it, so I'm feeling kind of played. That neighbour chat is also where they made their comment that they couldn't read you - which they then contradicted by trying to read you anyway. It could just be that it's the two different heads disagreeing (they haven't been signing their posts) but I'm still really wondering why they said one thing in private and another thing in public.

The neighbour chat is damn near useless to me at this point because 1: I don't trust Stiles and 2: Croag is slank as fuck or else lurking, so even if I did trust Stiles it's not secure. I also think the chance of anyone in the neighbourhood being NK'd is already low enough that this is unlikely to change the scum's NK math. As such, best to make it clear what the fuck I've been doing here.

*Stiles' chainsaw reasoning, as they then laid out publicly in the thread in their readslist, showing no actual evolution over several pages.

[Lady Eventide]

This is not correct, Lady Lambdadelta is a she in the post, which makes sense because Lady Eventide knows her well. Katsuki was inexplicably a she despite not being known very well, which is a bit of partner equity.

Point me at another player I could confuse Katsuki with in this game. Seriously.

[Lady Eventide]

why are people randomly talking in colored text

On a more serious note why is LE focusing on people’s reads on them instead of their own read on other people when deciding who to push?

-Wind

1: I'm ML-bait. There are

definitely

scum on my wagon.
2: I'm allergic to being lynched.
3: The people that are voting me have things to say about me, so it's easier to analyze them and get useful info, because I have their reactions to a player of known alignment. (AKA me.)

[Lady Eventide]

1: I'm ML-bait. There are definitely scum on my wagon.

But who?
From your reads list I can only see Dann?

Strongest feeling right now. Need to look into Bitmap. Pops' reactions to my recent readlist are pinging me again but I don't want to go back there rn, that feels like an abyss I will lose all my time to.

Current lynches from most to least preferred:
Stile
Dann
Titus

... with bitmap in there somewhere.

Pedit @T&E:
Yes, and...? I don't know what more acknowledgement you want from me. I cannot literally vote for every person in the game at once, though god knows I've been trying.

[Lady Eventide]

Lady E, you were claiming to be good at scum earlier in the game, right?

But you also think you’re mislynch bait?

As a wolf, I don't have to actually flail around and put pressure on people in order to develop reads. I already know people's alignments and can just focus on examining behavior. I don't votehop so much, and when I do votehop it's more controlled because it's got an actual plan behind it. Which, to be entirely honest, I ain't got as town. Plus the fact that I look scummy as town means it's hard to tell when I'm actually, y'know, scum.

@Cafe Stiles:
Looking at Mastina's page on mafiawiki, they do indeed seem like a very similar player to me. Calibrating your read via their meta is likely to return good results as a first approximation. I also think I'm quite similar to LLD in some respects; apply that meta as well if you have it.

[Lady Eventide]

Hm, Evenstar doesn't seem like the kind of personality for enjoying gacha games.

Either Lillaire has been up to no good in there, or Evenstar has foiled my expectations.

I enjoy them despite the fact that they are evil.

[Lady Eventide]

Who's she gonna do it to after outing the hood

- Hideri

You?

I assume you guys aren't just gonna stop interacting in there now that the hood is outed

Why bother? Until Croag's dead it's not secure, and Stile is... maybe not the greatest player to collaborate with tbqh, even if I knew them to be town. Seems much more likely to get me scumread for talking behind people's backs and 'trying to pocket stiles' than whatever.

Plus...

... If you're town, don't you say to Stiles "You

already are

pocketed by Eva", not "You're

going to be

pocketed by Eva"? She's already hard-defending me, it's hard to see how much more deeply pocketed she could get if I'm scum. Yeah, yeah, it's a small thing re: tense, but...

As I

still

haven't gotten around to bitmap, I think I'm moving back to you again. I think Stiles has responded to pressure well enough that I don't want to lynch her today, so it's between you, Titus and maybe-bitmap.

Gonna park this here for now pending bitmap ISO:

VOTE: Dannflor

[Lady Eventide]

Bitmap ISO:

#13: Initial RVS vote on Pops. It's interesting that Pops is still under suspicion as of now. See what I mean about long-running continuous pushing at Pops?

#32: Says they want to talk mechanics but won't because that'll get them lynched. Feels a bit overly self-aware to me.

Spoiler: big NAI stuff spoilerbox

#83: Pops throws shade at bitmap, bitmap responds with 'wat'. ... Part of me wants to read this as early scum distancing, but that conflicts with my current pops townread so I'm gonna shelve it for the moment. It's worth noting that Dannfor calls out one of the nearby posts - "pops i swear to fucking god if ur scum again" - as an overreaction on Bitmap's part. Bitmap laughs it off: "hi im bitmap, im a drama queen".

#93: Titus says Dann might be scum. Both Bitmap and Titus have said Dann might be scum and it's less than 100 posts in. That is weird. I don't know if I'm seeing ghosts here but it's weird.

#96: Bitmap continues to pressure Dann, this time for vote hopping too much in RVS. Ok sure.

#150: Bitmap declares their pops vote to now be serious, due to their vote hopping seeming opportunistic. Ok, cool.

#154: ... Bitmap scumreads pops for votehopping opportunistically and in a different way from Dannflor, who they were also scumreading for votehopping?? Frankly, this is on the border of TWTBAW.

#160 feels pure. I don't know if scum bitmap ever resorts to "we're only on page 7 and I'm trying pls this is hard" in this situation, and the tone is excellent overall.

blah blah chainsaw defense stuff...

#253 feels overaggressive, #263 is a mention of the night kill for no good goddamn reason, both are scummy feeling. I also don't like the vote hop in #254, as hypocritical as it might be.

#273 is bleah. I don't see what prompted this or why it was important to say.

#294 pinged me earlier as a reversal from their position in #32, but ehhhh.

#298 starts the wagon on me. "I don't feel like Lady Eventide

's posts have been that from town lately.

Too mechanical and no scumhunting." ... At the time I was townreading this, since wolves rarely push aggressively like this this early, but bitmap was already under suspicion at this point weren't they? Their reversal on mechanics seems very conveniently timed now.

... Looking back, they were being voted by Dannflor... and

Tana and Ephraim.

Both of whom Bitmap goes out of their way to townread.

...

*sighs*

I've been an idiot.

Okay, continuing on...

...

"Bitmap, I find it quite peculiar you think scum wouldn't lead a wagon" - Gamma

...

...

really, really obvious scum motivation.

*headdesk*

... Okay how the hell did I think they were town.

... christ.

This is so fucking obvious.

I got nothing. This is just a serious fuckup from me. @Tana and Ephiraim: You're right to call me on this, they absolutely are scum, let's lynch them.

VOTE: Bitmap

[Lady Eventide]

Eva there's no plural in our name its just the cafe in Blend S pronounced steelay

[quote="eva"... If you're town, don't you say to Stiles "You already are pocketed by Eva", not "You're going to be pocketed by Eva"? She's already hard-defending me, it's hard to see how much more deeply pocketed she could get if I'm scum. Yeah, yeah, it's a small thing re: tense, but...

how does that indicate anything wha

- Hideri[/quote]

fuck the dannflor wagon bitmap is obvscum tbqh. I have no idea how I missed this even when I ISO'd them earlier.

but to answer the question: scum!dann wants to make you distrust me and look for hidden meanings in things I do; town!dann wants to make you honestly reconsider your read of me.

[Lady Eventide]

Yeah... parking my vote back.

VOTE: Lady E

Why?

[Lady Eventide]

I didn't like your Dannflor vote.

Why?

[Lady Eventide]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKV2KoKRtSk[/youtube]

Dear Bitmap: Let's fucking dance. You're the one who's to blame for this whole fiasco, and even if I get lynched I'm going to drag you down to hell with me.

You start a vote on me based on my posting about mechanics, without having the guts to

actually call me scummy,

at a moment when you feel Tana and Ephiraim breathing down my neck, in a way that completely reverses your earlier posture on mechanics. You read Dannflor, Pops and me differently for the same behavior. You talk about trying to avoid the night kill when you were never likely to ever be night killed in the first place, given that Tana and Ephraim are in this game along with LLD and Katsuki. You think scum wouldn't lead a wagon... right when you are, yourself, scum leading a wagon. Of fucking

course

you'd believe that. You keep making dumb posts that amount to "agree" or "disagree" in an attempt to look like you're contributing more than you really are. Your interactions with Pops are overall just weird as fuck, and you ought not to have been so accurate with your RVS vote that you're

still

fucking voting for them by turns; Pops is likely MLbait and you're the main source of her push. You're overly concerned about what Tana's read is on you, because they have a rep and you're scared of that rep. You call everyone who attacks you town and call townreads of you scummy because that gives you a convenient excuse to do performative pressure. You answered my earlier question over whether anyone townread a comment by Katsuki with a "no", for no good goddamn reason but to again fake real solving. You keep fucking pushing pops for terrible reasons like 'making pot shots.' You refuse to talk about your earlier fuckups when LLD challenges you on them. You outright ask how many votes you have on you. Your votes feel like they don't have real reasoning behind them, and you keep taking opportunities to cast shade on people while never really updating your reads on people in a townier direction.

You're scum. You are 99% scum, and in the 1% case where I'm wrong I'm never fucking solving you. So

let's fucking dance.

VOTE: Bitmap

[Lady Eventide]

[Lady Eventide]

If I move my vote off bitmap today, lynch me.

[Lady Eventide]

Still waiting for a response from Bitmap.

@Pops: Thanks for not listening and MLing me, see you probably never.

More seriously tho, obviously I've dug myself into a hole here regardless of alignment. Getting ML'd early in this many games says I'm a VI and need to rethink my play to be more usefully defensive and less, well, scummy. I guess it's just hard for me to care about looking town when I know I am.

In any case, glad you're enjoying the show; doing my best to not die here, which ironically is probably what's making me die. Eh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyone who has advice on how to improve my game, please provide it now.

Also, lynch bitmap.

[Lady Eventide]

are you gonna dance w her

should I?

Yes, obviously. What do you have to lose? The general reaction shows that you have every advantage over me, popularity-contest wise. Disengaging and scoffing at my arguments as insufficient is just going to make me shout them louder and longer, with more and more elaborations on exactly how scummy you are, with no counterpoint from you. If I don't convince anyone and get lynched, those arguments will then be coming from a confirmed townie, at which point everyone who's already been suspecting you will have several wallposts full of additional ammunition. If you're genuinely town, you should engage now before I

really

get to work. If you're scum... Then sure, run.

[Lady Eventide]

I would assess your play by winrate, not by how early you get mislynched. If mislynching you frequently exposes scum your winrate might be fine.

I have a high day 1 mislynch rate (fading a bit but I think it's still above rand) because I'm always very active day 1 (as always, I'm afraid to look at activity overview right now) and because of my style of activity day 1, but I think my games tend to transition out of RVS and into solving compared with those I spectate or show up late too and I think my town winrate isn't that heavily harmed.

It's also not necessarily appropriate to assign all the blame for a mislynch on the mislynchee.

I assess my play by "do I achieve the goals I set out to achieve", which in this case include living. I don't always prioritize that goal, but in this game it's important to me, and I'm failing at it. Which means I'm not playing as well as I should be.

[Lady Eventide]

PS lynch bitmap.

[Lady Eventide]

She's only voting me to please the RC head from T&E.

Hey RC, stop being such an idiot and stop MLing me.

More seriously again: I don't like RC, I don't respect RC, and I sure as hell am not doing this for their good opinion of me; that ship sailed long fucking ago. RC's far too stubborn to ever reconsider his wrong opinion of me, and he's not going to. My primary motivation regarding him right now is to really rub it in his face how BaM he's been if and when I flip, and to make it

abundantly

clear to the town that his reads can't be trusted.

Nice spin though. Please, keep giving me more reasons to lynch you.

[Lady Eventide]

Yes she is
And its so fkin obvious omg

Real interesting how you're piling on here. It makes sense, given that you've been hard defending bitmap pretty much since the beginning of the game; you scumread Gamma primarily for calling Bitmap scummy AFAICT, and when challenged by me to actually produce the evidence of not doing this that you claimed to have, (#749) you refused to provide it. (#759) 3 scum 1 page? Unlikely - stiles or dann as the 3rd? - but possible.

Also, lynch bitmap.

Pedit @SS:
Flip me first if you must, but hard bussing day 1 when I'm already going under is

not

a winning move for scum-me, especially as I'm recovering from a hard-bussing meta and Lexi knows that. The ideal here would be to have someone else on my scumteam bus me, like 112 did in WC1. (I actually ordered them to hammer me in that game.)

If you do flip me first, will you then proceed to lynch bitmap? I want a commitment one way or the other, and a good reason why.

@Dannflor: It's Bitmap. I get you being uncool with my sudden tone shift, but I genuinely think I've got scum here. In the 1% where I fuck up, I deserve to get vigged or w/e.


okay, well:

Pedit:

Ok, guess I'm forced to pull this card out. Thank you GIF for being the best troll mod.

I claim Innocent Child.

One of my transformation grants me mod-confirmed Innocent Child status. I have my innocent child transformation sequence toggled if I do get to transform tonight.

If you vote me from here on out, it's a scum claim.

...

Bullshit.

Not only that, but why the

fuck

did you claim it

now?

Triply...

Actually, no, that is 100% bastard and would not exist as a scum role.

... what the fuck even is this game.

My gutfeeling right now is that this is scum trying to wine us into a zero-transforms night where they can use all their night powers. Nonetheless...

UNVOTE: Bitmap

... Please hold while the eva reboots.

[Lady Eventide]

... Please hold while the eva reboots.

Oooh which unit do you pilot?

the SS probably-a-dumbass

...

... Bitmap: Address my arguments regardless of your claim. There's a known day-roleblocker plus the potential for transform crash or roleblock at night. Your claim is not clearing in and of itself, and there's a good chance you won't be able to transform for whatever reason.

Meanwhile...

*rubs her face*

... I guessssssssssss I move back to Dannflor? god fuck this game.

VOTE: Dannflor

...

No,

UNVOTE: Dannflor

I made a damn promise and I am not convinced by this claim. I'm already committed to this. Mechanically this is so implausible as to be ridiculous, and the existence of the day roleblocker says that this could be a planned gambit. Given the piss-poor timing when barely anyone was on the Bit wagon, and the blatant use of the claim to prevent from having to engage with my arguments...

I guess I'm fuckin' scumclaiming as town!

VOTE: Bitmap

[Lady Eventide]

But you said to lynch you if you unvoted!!!
Seriously tho, im currently talking with RC about this development because im starting to strongly feel that lynching Eva is not the play.
-Tana

So lynch me! Frankly, this is bullshit and I'm not standing for it. Cornered wolves have made dumber plays before, and the mechanics for this setup give any number of potential wolf outs and motives for it, particularly the use of it to suppress transformations from genuine townies.

@Bitmap: You are not fucking getting out of this dance so easily.

[Lady Eventide]

So LE, you consider AtE a scumtell and you're using AtE, as per your own evaluation, why shouldnt i be lynching you right now.
-Tana

Just expressing my own emotions ain't a scumtell.

[Lady Eventide]

I feel like people are going to incorrectly townread LE re-committing on bitmap.

Ah, predictably wrong as per usual.

@Dannflor:
NGL, I do think I'm being a little irrational in sticking to this. But if this is a scumplay, it's something worth stalling a night for. Which says it's damn important we not let them have that night.

I take my promises seriously and I recognize that fucking pushing the claimed IC is gonna likely make me the lynch. Nonetheless... Bitmap's scum. Re their claim: I roll to disbelieve.

@Bitmap: What the fuck am I doing if I'm scum, then? Trying to lynch the claimed innocent child is equally suicidal!!

[Lady Eventide]

If you're town, find another person.

... *takes a deep breath*

...

VOTE: Dannflor

mutter mutter 'test the claim' mutter mutter.

[Lady Eventide]

@Bitmap: What the fuck am I doing if I'm scum, then? Trying to lynch the claimed innocent child is equally suicidal!!

If you're able to have this thought process, you're able to realize as scum how doing this could get you town read.

for crying out loud

Yes, I am the kind to do refuge in audacity plays. This ain't one. I do genuinely think bitmap is scum and I think you're going to regret letting them live another night. Claims are not mechanical info.

that said, fine. enjoy my vote, much luck may it bring you. You have official permission to lynch me for being Bad At Mafia.

[Lady Eventide]

like this feels like the kind of play that would come from someone who thinks that they're good scum in this kind of situation.

oh fuck off, scumva does not do that bullshit. I am tired of your nostradamusizing when you're literally one thousand percent wrong about EVERYTHING YOU GOD DAMN SAY. And continue with this PATRONIZING FUCKING ATTITUDE along with every single bullshit misread.

And yes, this IS A T FUCKING E

scum read me if you must

lynch me if you must

but do please remember that Tana is better at finding town than you.

[Lady Eventide]

@Ephiraim: When I flip town, who do you then ML?

[Lady Eventide]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cafe Stiles

You got some explaining to do.

Is this about the neighbourhood stuff

next time im about to be lynched im just gonna say "THIS IS A T FUCKING E" instead of like actually AtEing and see what happens

I encourage you to try, it probably won't help <3

[Lady Eventide]

Huh, phone apparently still had that in therr for w/e reason. Cool.

[Lady Eventide]

it's not my job to find town, it's my job to find scum.

Well you're fucking up.

[Lady Eventide]

THIS IS A FUCKING ATE MOTHERFUCKER PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR

HIT THE DECK AND PUT THE MONEY IN THE BAG

[Lady Eventide]

[Lady Eventide]

Ayyyy Katsuki

You got anything to say about this whole mess?

[Lady Eventide]

... and also,

mmmmm,

no.

...

I need to seriously reevaluate.

Because much as I hate it bitmap's claim is probably true.

So...

Scum is not going to want to interact with this fight. They are happy about this fight, they don't want it to derail. Who has vanished from the game and was suspecting bitmap a lot earlier?

...

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Lady Eventide]

...does that mean... you're town reading me now?

Or is Gamma suddenly bigger fish to fry

Gamma is bigger fish to fry, IMO. They've been persistently townreading me even as I've been sinking deeper, with their read apparently moving in the opposite direction from everyone else's. They've also been missing for almost two days now after having had appreciable thread presence earlier.

Plus to be frank I just don't trust myself anymore. I don't know what I've built on faulty logic, so I'm restarting from basics: This fight is TvT. Who pushed it? Gamma was just the first person to come to mind; I really need to do a full reread and figure out who was narrowing the PoE to "me or bit (or X)".

[Lady Eventide]

@Hidden Happiness:

What's your opinion on this whole mess? I'm beginning to suspect villa reads on me might be more sus than town ones at this point ^^;

[Lady Eventide]

I'm being serious about derailing LE to lynch HH by the way.

Just like you were serious about all those otherthings you never followed through on earlier?

[Lady Eventide]

I'm being serious about derailing LE to lynch HH by the way.

Just like you were serious about all those otherthings you never followed through on earlier?

Maybe, maybe not.

What's your read on HH right now? Do you believe her townread on you?

The fact that HH apparently contains someone from MU does partially explain the townread... but they're completely and balatantly wrong about my scum style, have obviously not read WC1, and their offer to let me get in their pocket makes my hackles rise instinctively. Would vote on to self pres, though I don't think they have

flagrantly

high scum equity.

What you're really asking me to do here is demonstrate that HH's not my partner. Which they aren't, because I'm town. But wine, so frankly *shrug.* I've stopped listening to you regarding what lynches you actually want to drive, TBH; I think you're not playing in my best interests, regardless of what alignment you might or might not be.

@Chaos Wind: Ephiraim has a bad habit of doing reaction tests constantly, even on things he claims are serious. I think this is the third time he's clarified that something is serious; one of those was a short-lived vote on Dannflor that lasted I think under 5 mins. I think it's bad play and I personally dislike it.

Pedit:
Dann makes a good point re: potential scum motive here. The fact that RC's misreading me so bad makes me feel like this could be a good thing... But HH could totes be scum. And it'd be handing them the game to let this happen. Not to mention I'd be dead.

However...

Scum!RC keeps recurring as a possibility.

So.

Dann, Gamma, Pops, and

especially

you, Wind, you know my meta:

Assume I am town. Should I trust the fuzzy friendly person who has not been contributing and wants me to live, or the loud abrasive person with a plan for how they want the game to go, and who wants me to die?

...

@LLD, did I or did I not just describe your play in game 5 with that last sentence?

... I could absolutely be being pocketed, but Tana's continual protest that she's townreading me but her utter inability to actually do anything about it because of big bad RC... might just be the tiebreaker vote here.

...

Then again, the last time I made a big bold statement I tunneled the IC.

... I really, really need some input here. Please, anybody and everybody, chip in your five cents. Who should I be trusting, and why?

... Huh. Ephiraim going for literal REASONS. I was not expecting the Acionyx comparison to get so literal.

...

Sure, I'll bite.

Six more votes???

Aw hell naw. Early dayend is bad, RC should know that, fuck this.

[Lady Eventide]

Also it's still likely not above average: I've had more than my fair share of games where at some point I have literally pushed every player in the game to sort them.
You know this or ought to know this, so why are you taking one of the few things that are mathematically, demonstrably a towntell for me
as other players including Shoshin have brought up as a way to meta me and as I have myself stated that I find it difficult to fake as scum

and trying to use it to discredit my read?

I think I just got whiplash from how fast you 180d on gamma here as soon as they stopped doing what you wanted them to.

Everyone who is scumreading you, you think is scum. You think Tana's cute face ought to be enough to protect you.

... I still want more opinions here, but you seem to be derailing hard and I sure as hell am not following where you lead.

[Lady Eventide]

VOTE: LE

How quickly you abandon your plan to lynch HH first.

[Lady Eventide]

RC is blatantly off. I don't know if this is how they usually play, but their vengeful reactions to people they think are scumreading them remind me of LLD's play in G5. They're not playing for solving, they're playing for social control.

HH's response to their bkatant gambitry and bullying is strong and pure to me. If I'm being pocketed, I'm never climbing out.

RC: You challenged me to vote for either you or HH. I think at this point you've made it abundantly clear who I ought to be voting.

VOTE: Tana And Ephraim

[Lady Eventide]

I did say I was unlikely to pursue it if you weren't voting there.

Because if I refuse to vote there I am therefore HH's scum partner, because there is no possible reason for my not just shutting up and doing what you want other than my being scum.

No. I refuse to be bullied. There are far scummier people in this game than HH, and though I mistrust their motives I am sure as hell not going to capitulate to what amounts to a blatant threat.

You are not playing to solve.

[Lady Eventide]

Dann, Gamma, Pops, and especially you, Wind, you know my meta:

Assume I am town. Should I trust the fuzzy friendly person who has not been contributing and wants me to live, or the loud abrasive person with a plan for how they want the game to go, and who wants me to die?

I... don't know your meta?

I don't know why you're asking for opinions. It sounds like you've already made up your mind.

It's specifically wind who knows my meta. I guess I have now but I had not when I wrote that.

[Lady Eventide]

Dann, Gamma, Pops, and especially you, Wind, you know my meta:

Assume I am town. Should I trust the fuzzy friendly person who has not been contributing and wants me to live, or the loud abrasive person with a plan for how they want the game to go, and who wants me to die?

I... don't know your meta?

I don't know why you're asking for opinions. It sounds like you've already made up your mind.

It's fake, etc. Not townreading HH reaction or their slot as a whole but the main reason for the vote was to see what Pops would do.

Lovely. Yep. I'm just going to start reading "this is serious" as "this is a reaction test" from you.

[Lady Eventide]

No, you don't.

A lot of people in mafia really need to do less thinking and more following the people who actually know what they're doing.

If you want people to give you a blank slate, this is not the way to go. Regardless, I think you're town so I'll trust you on this.

VOTE: LE

this isn't a question of blank slate

i've been obviously town in general
i've played to the few aspects of my town meta i can't replicate
tana is obviously town in general
tana has been posting concurrently to me in a way that i can't be heavily coaching her

to scumread me here you basically have to just be throwing out any attempt to read my slot and calling me scum anyway

You're scum because you're:
1: Pushing a ML.
2: Looking to link in everyone who defends them as a fellow scum.
3: Treating everyone who disagrees with you as scum.
4: Shouting down and scumreading everyone who disagrees with you.
5: Making it continually extremely difficult to understand what the fuck you're thinking.
6: Continuously saying things are "serious" then backing off when they get poor reactions.
7: Generally being an asshole in such a way as to own the public space and turn it to your own personal ends.

In short, you're impossible to hold to account, impossible to contradict, and a pain in the ass to talk to.

That is scum motivated behaviour.

[Lady Eventide]

I STG, if T&E manage to lynch me and you all don't shove a vengelynch down their throats I will be very disappointed in the quality of play here.

[Lady Eventide]

if she was town who scumread me this isn't how she would talk about it. she's talking about it like she knows that i'm town but thinks she has good reason to call me scum regardless.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I am not your bitch and you do not get to say what my motivations are.

[Lady Eventide]

I never said that @Gamma

I have never expressed a read on you in fact.

You

what

.

Five seconds after you got all up in his face regarding his possible scumread of you, you say you've never expressed a read on him?

This might be technically true but it's blatant gaslighting.

[Lady Eventide]

she already knows that.

I know you are a massive egoist and you don't care abiut others much, yes. I know you get shit wrong and don't want to admit it. But this is more than that. This is outright refusal to engage, refusal to explain, refusal to treat others as even useful

subordinates

rather than

pawns

. I know other players of your type; you are hardly unique in believing you are god's gift to mafia. Nonetheless, even egoists are at times forced to explain themselves - and you have never, not even once in this entire game, ever exposed any real part of your reasoning process.

When you then combine that with your bullshit gambitry and bullying, a picture begins to emerge that says you're in a scum meta, not a town meta, however close together they may be. The fact that I pushed you earlier is no doubt part of why I'm still experiencing the weight of your displeasure: you know I'm on to you. And you can't let a single one of my comments pass unchallenged, because

you can't afford to let anyone else consider that I might be right.

Your credibility is already going to take a serious blow when you lynch me; right now, you're looking for damage control.

[Lady Eventide]

The fact that people (Bitmap, Pops, HH, LE, and several others) are still talking about this game like my slot isn't the towniest slot in the game by far

You said I said you paying no attention is town indicative and i never said that.

No I meant you explained the fact that untagged posts were you. Very weird mistake but okay.

I think that's actually the most obvious way to read that post.

The towniest slot in this game so far is Sailor Senshi and you god damn know it.

[Lady Eventide]

oof

oh yeah she herself said ate is a scumtell...

And your slot argued against that then. But now that that's no longer convenient, you've changed your tune. Not only that, I thought you were uninterested in how I characterizw my own play? Your case is falling apart, RC.

Let's take another look at that list of tells, actually. Thanks for reminding me of it.

Looking for scapegoats.

VS Apologizing and owning fault.

Sowing discord.

VS. Promoting cooperation.

Lack of real analysis.

VS. Doing serious analysis work.
Lurking for long periods. VS.

Making efforts to be active.

Attacking the accuser, not the argument.

VS. Engaging seriously with accusations.

Speaking for or over others.

VS. Letting others speak their minds.

Appealing to emotion.

VS. Using logic over emotion.

Not pushing claimed suspicions.

VS. Putting real pressure on others.

Knowing too much.

VS. Showing genuine uncertainty.

... Huh. Seems like by a list I made in a completely different game, in a completely different context, you're objectively far scummier than not. Interesting.

[Lady Eventide]

(First items scumtells, second items corresponding towntells.)

[Lady Eventide]

I was referring less to the AtE itself

and more to the calling me an egoist and saying that i treat others like pawns, etc. more the

unnecessarily hurtful things

that she was saying that she said she had a meta of saying as scum.

Turnavour is fair play: Isn't this AtE?

[Lady Eventide]

*turnabout, phoneposting sucks.

@Pops: No, I do not. I think you've done some questionable things, but you're far more likely ML bait than scum.

[Lady Eventide]

I was referring less to the AtE itself

and more to the calling me an egoist and saying that i treat others like pawns, etc. more the unnecessarily hurtful things that she was saying that she said she had a meta of saying as scum.

Also, this is blatant misrepresentation. I explicitly said I was ashamed and angry at myself for doing that, and I haven't since used such tactics. I do not enjoy making the games I'm in unpleasant for others.

[Lady Eventide]

oof

oh yeah she herself said ate is a scumtell...

And your slot argued against that then. But now that that's no longer convenient, you've changed your tune. Not only that, I thought you were uninterested in how I characterizw my own play? Your case is falling apart, RC.

Let's take another look at that list of tells, actually. Thanks for reminding me of it.

Looking for scapegoats.

VS Apologizing and owning fault.

Sowing discord.

VS. Promoting cooperation.

Lack of real analysis.

VS. Doing serious analysis work.
Lurking for long periods. VS.

Making efforts to be active.

Attacking the accuser, not the argument.

VS. Engaging seriously with accusations.

Speaking for or over others.

VS. Letting others speak their minds.

Appealing to emotion.

VS. Using logic over emotion.

Not pushing claimed suspicions.

VS. Putting real pressure on others.

Knowing too much.

VS. Showing genuine uncertainty.

... Huh. Seems like by a list I made in a completely different game, in a completely different context, you're objectively far scummier than not. Interesting.

Um no. RC is pushing you for your logic, not his. It's the same thing for me pushing Bitmap for his "inconsistency" bout scum starting wagons, I believed Bitmap here was making sense generally bit that doesn't change the fact it seemed like he was betraying his own beliefs. RC is saying you seem to be betraying your beliefs by saying the AtE isn't scummy.

... saying what AtE isn't scummy? What are you referencing here?

@Pops, Gameplay: Sure, whatever, I'm fine with this; RC is big and it's hard to fight his thread control on his home turf. That said, I really hope you take a long hard look at him after my lynch, assuming that happens.

[Lady Eventide]

Using the same tells list, the read I produce on my slot goes:

Looking for scapegoats. VS

Apologizing and owning fault.

Sowing discord. VS.

Promoting cooperation.

Lack of real analysis. VS.

Doing serious analysis work.

Lurking for long periods. VS.

Making efforts to be active.

Attacking the accuser, not the argument. VS.

Engaging seriously with accusations.

Speaking for or over others. VS.

Letting others speak their minds.

Appealing to emotion.

VS. Using logic over emotion.

Not pushing claimed suspicions.

VS. Putting real pressure on others.
Knowing too much. VS.

Showing genuine uncertainty.

... though of course I may be less legible than this to others, especially in a new environment.

[Lady Eventide]

oof

oh yeah she herself said ate is a scumtell...

And your slot argued against that then. But now that that's no longer convenient, you've changed your tune. Not only that, I thought you were uninterested in how I characterizw my own play? Your case is falling apart, RC.

Let's take another look at that list of tells, actually. Thanks for reminding me of it.

Looking for scapegoats.

VS Apologizing and owning fault.

Sowing discord.

VS. Promoting cooperation.

Lack of real analysis.

VS. Doing serious analysis work.
Lurking for long periods. VS.

Making efforts to be active.

Attacking the accuser, not the argument.

VS. Engaging seriously with accusations.

Speaking for or over others.

VS. Letting others speak their minds.

Appealing to emotion.

VS. Using logic over emotion.

Not pushing claimed suspicions.

VS. Putting real pressure on others.

Knowing too much.

VS. Showing genuine uncertainty.

... Huh. Seems like by a list I made in a completely different game, in a completely different context, you're objectively far scummier than not. Interesting.

Um no. RC is pushing you for your logic, not his. It's the same thing for me pushing Bitmap for his "inconsistency" bout scum starting wagons, I believed Bitmap here was making sense generally bit that doesn't change the fact it seemed like he was betraying his own beliefs. RC is saying you seem to be betraying your beliefs by saying the AtE isn't scummy.

... saying what AtE isn't scummy? What are you referencing here?

@Pops, Gameplay: Sure, whatever, I'm fine with this; RC is big and it's hard to fight his thread control on his home turf. That said, I really hope you take a long hard look at him after my lynch, assuming that happens.

Idk what I'm referencing but it doesn't matter because it's a situation of principle. You said AtE was scummy initially, then at least as the situation seems to indicate you took a different stance on AtE in practice, so RC called you out.

I engage in AtE instinctually regardless of alignment, but I acknowledge it's scummy behaviour and I try to keep it to a minimum when I'm town. I do not always succeed.

Pedit:
Gamma, please produce the actual "twisting" you think I'm doing. I frankly don't understand your argument.

[Lady Eventide]

I don't see what you're seeing in the interaction.

Why are you voting me again, other than your neck being potentially on the line?

[Lady Eventide]

actually its 1:30 am, I have class tomorrow, and RC seems to have left

so I'm p likely to log soon.

[Lady Eventide]

oof

oh yeah she herself said ate is a scumtell...

And your slot argued against that then. But now that that's no longer convenient, you've changed your tune. Not only that, I thought you were uninterested in how I characterizw my own play? Your case is falling apart, RC.

I was referring less to the AtE itself

and more to the calling me an egoist and saying that i treat others like pawns, etc. more the

unnecessarily hurtful things

that she was saying that she said she had a meta of saying as scum.

Turnavour is fair play: Isn't this AtE?

This shit and especially the second post is twisting. I guess I can see how LE is not being a hypocrite actually, unless the AtE RC pointed out was her own. But it's not being convenient, the point RC was making didn't involve his own stance on that tell at all. And then to try and make a massive reach and call something that is not at all AtE that shows LE is scrambling to scumpaint RC.

RC is trying to paint himself as a victim of the nasty scum girl who keeps calling him bad names. Pops rightly called this out as bullshit and I don't think it's wrong of me to call it an attempt to tug on heartstrings.

*shrugs*

And now I'm going to bed. Please leave any additional accusations etc for the morning. Also please don't hammer while I'm literally unconcious, that's not cool.

@pops I'll get to this in the morning

thanks though

[Lady Eventide]

VC 1.08

Tana and Ephraim (1):

Lady Eventide

Hidden Happiness (0):

Chaos Wind (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Croag (1):

Croag

Bitmap (1):

Titus

RCEnigma (1):

Cafe Stile

Dannflor (2):

Hidden Happiness

Sailor Senshi (0):

Cafe Stile (1):

Chaos Wind

Gamma Emerald (0):

popsofctown (1):

Sailor Senshi

DrDoLittle (0):

Titus (0):

Lady Eventide (8):

DrDoLittle, Katsuki, gameplay506, Tana and Ephraim, popsofctown, Dannflor, Bitmap, Gamma Emerald

Lady Lambdadelta (0):

gameplay506 (0):

Katsuki (0):

Not Voting:

RCEnigma

With 17 alive, 9 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2019-09-27 16:41:30)

Yeep!!

@Sailor Senshi

I think you're wrong about pops. What else do you have on the table? I don't trust my own reads but Pops really does feel like ML bait to me.

[Lady Eventide]

Okay,

DrDoLittle

,

Katsuki

, gameplay506,

Tana and Ephraim,

popsofctown,

Dannflor, Bitmap, Gamma Emerald

... Tail end here feels town, so who is scum on me? T&E could be good for it but someone made a good argument for waiting for them to get NK'd. Similarly, nobody's willing to go to Katsuki. DrDoLittle is possible. Pops or gameplay ought to be possible, much as I dislike moving to either of them.

Fucking hell it's hard to find town here.

Okay, let's try focussing on that. Who am I never voting ever?
- Sailor Senshi
- ... bitmap, much as I hate it.
- ... I think Gamma. Yeah I'm flipflopping, deal with it.

Okay, that's... something I guess.

So PoE: Dannflor, Pops, Gameplay, DrDoLittle. I think... I think Dannflor is just town. Gameplay is just town. DoLittle could be scum but ehhhhhhhhh I don't like Stile's push. Tana is TRing pops though and I too am TRing them.

It's highly unlikely that both vets would rand scum together and have the interactions they're having.

What does it say that I have not yet been hammered? Either A, scum want me alive to ML later, or B, scum are already stacked on my wagon and adding a third/fourth will kill them through wagonomics in the long run.

So assuming 2 scum on the wagon... What's the pair? They aren't going to be adjacent to each other, because scum dislike obvious coordination. So...

Not both T&E and pops. Not both Gameplay and T&E. Not both Kat and Gameplay. Not both Dr and Kat. Not both pops and Dannflor.

... Pops and Dr. have good spacing and both HH and Sailor are suspecting in that direction. Gameplay could be it but Dann and Pops is just never a thing. Nor T&E and Pops.

... My instincts are obviously off, and nobody is going to follow where I lead. If I want an actual counterwagon I need to pick somebody to sheep.

... I think weight of evidence says it's Pops. DoLittle didn't SR me until I made that vote on him, while Pops seemed to come to it independently but late, after T&E really started pushing it.

... Also, I just plain trust Senshi more.

VOTE: PopsofCtown

... let me just re-check my old notes because I feel I may have confused pops and gameplay at some point.

... Neugh. Chemist with intent to hammer. Lovely.

Alright, I'll fullclaim.

I am

Homura Akemi,

and I am a

Heart Of Light

. I have three abilities:
1: I'm in a neighbourhood with what I assume to be fellow megucas. Part of me actually suspects we're

all

Homura, because time travel, but that's so unlikely idek why I mention it tbh.
2: I can transform to follow someone at night and see what ability they used, if any.
3: I can transform to get permanently kicked out of ny neighbourhood and become a miller. In exchange, my Follower power also becomes a partial Voyeur on my target, leyting me see one action done to them. Yes, this option is godawful and I don't understand why anyone would ever use it; however it does at least tell me there's probably a sane cop in the setup. (And perhaps a "force transformation" role? Weird if true, but announcing day roleblockers are apparently a thing, so...)

I don't know how strong my investigative is as I've never played with a Follower role before, hence my early mechanics questions - I don't know if I'm one of the best investigatives here or one of the worst. I do at least have the ability to get damn-near-conclusive guilties, so that's nice, but in practice IDK how useful the role is if there's a vig in the setup, which there likely is.

[Lady Eventide]

How am i supposed to TR you and trust your IC claim if you make moves like these.
-Tana

I believe LE's claim. That's why.

Claim =/= alignment
-Tana

... Why would a scum have an ability that makes them a miller??

[Lady Eventide]

Switch becomes miller to lose godfather and that becomes a scum claim

So I'm lying about having follower power, then? What sane scum would ever drop their godfather and get kicked from a neighbourhood with nice juicy townies to pocket just for an additional partial voyeur that might not even work AND takes a night to turn on?

[Lady Eventide]

Incidentally, the fact that I can become a miller was def a factor in why ai didn't initially believe Bitmap's IC claim: the idea that they just

happen

to be my opposite number beggars belief, but I guess crazy chances do happen sometimes??

[Lady Eventide]

Also, the fact that they're not in my neighbourhood rules them out of being Madoka, who is one of my first candidates for IC status.