Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Sirfetch'd

I declare that we have a Pokemon battle. Loser gets turned into duck stew.

[AaronFrost]

Hello skitter we meet again.

Why did so many people pick not-1 for their second number?

In hindsight, probably should have. In practice, didn't need to.

[AaronFrost]

Oh shit, Aaron fucking frost is here too. Heya Aaron.

Hey yourself

[AaronFrost]

Draft choice is such huge source of information. With double role pick {8,9,10,11} are able to find out which roles were taken by top players. It's obv that both {9,10} are scum.
VOTE: Aaron

Interesting take. Not entirely sure what you mean here but I guess this begs the question of whether or not scum would be allowed to coordinate their draft picks.

[AaronFrost]

Lol. What for?

You know scum governor getting to LYLO is an instant scum win right?

I almost feel like scum wouldnt have gone for governor because it's such an obviously scummy pick

I don't think anyone would seriously choose 1-shot governor over a joat regardless of alignment.

[AaronFrost]

I could see scum taking either ability honestly.

[AaronFrost]

I could see scum taking either ability honestly.

What changed your opinion?

Scum governor in lylo is basically insta-win, so I can see why they would want that. I think they'd be more likely to go for the JOAT though since they'd get more use out of that.

[AaronFrost]

You didn't ask my motivations for the vote, or even try to understand. You projected your own thoughts that it was empty. Perhaps I had a reason.

What other interesting things were there to talk about? I didn't feel inclined to weigh in on the Governor claim at that time.

I get the feeling this implies you know something about the wooperst that the rest of us don't.

[AaronFrost]

We had every number less than 12 except for 2 and 7. I don't think that's significant.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... /Y#History
It is rare looking at previous games. Among 15 games: 567, 518 and 732were close to it by missing one number. One game 649 got this perfectly as our game and had scum there.

I'd be more on board with this logic if there were more than one game where this instance happened. The problem I have with this is that you're assuming that is the the "obvious" thing that scum would do when picking draft numbers when we only have one game where the pattern was valid.

[AaronFrost]

Why is Something_Smart obvious scum (The fact that I have to ask that question means it likely isn't obvious, so let's just go with "Why is Something_Smart scum")?

Because S_S doesn't like scum and is honestly not the best at it. Sure, he's decent but he's no god. The thing S_S is gonna do here is instantly go into mech talk because mech talk is the most simple thing you can do to try and appear busy when really you're not. It's not helping and something I can see scum him going for right away. He's made one townread for 'a stupid reason' but that's it and doesn't go into more detail. Really, we should drop this and force people to play. Anyone regardless of your alignment or how bad you are can talk mech. Not everyone can be decent at mafia. Let's force people to play the game

Is setup spec not a part of the game to you? I supposed I could meta SS and see if this is something he normally does but I don't think setup spec is AI.

[AaronFrost]

I can get behind this.
VOTE: S_S

VOTE: nom

Don't like this sheep vote.

[AaronFrost]

I can get behind this.
VOTE: S_S

VOTE: nom

Don't like this sheep vote.

I'd like to put pressure on something_smart. What's wrong with that?

Why though?

[AaronFrost]

I don't know why but I'm getting strong town vibes from Sirfetchd

[AaronFrost]

So last open that I played was haunted village. Vork setup specced way hard, I townread him for it, and turns out he was scum. I'm leaning something smart scum for it this time, because after last game it's a way to get low hanging town points in the early RVS stages.

I like Xayah for turning away from setup spec.

Townlean on Xayah
Scumlean on Skitt for the push w/o vote, and S_S for all that setup spec.

I know others were doing it, but s_s stuck out there.

Interesting. Do you think scum would be the ones to initiate setup spec discussion?

[AaronFrost]

Draft choice is such huge source of information. With double role pick {8,9,10,11} are able to find out which roles were taken by top players. It's obv that both {9,10} are scum.
VOTE: Aaron

Interesting take. Not entirely sure what you mean here but I guess this begs the question of whether or not scum would be allowed to coordinate their draft picks.

I was scum in the last iteration of pyp, and they can

Lol. What for?

You know scum governor getting to LYLO is an instant scum win right?

I almost feel like scum wouldnt have gone for governor because it's such an obviously scummy pick

I don't think anyone would seriously choose 1-shot governor over a joat regardless of alignment.

I feel like some sorts of players would go for governor anyways. I also forgot what it was paired with, ao fair point

It's paired with a 5-ability JOAT.

[AaronFrost]

Don't really understand the scumreads on SS honestly. I agree that there are better things we could be doing right now than setup spec, but I don't think SS had any malicious intent in doing that.

[AaronFrost]

Where's the wooper scooper?

Want an opinion on skitter from him.

he's going to tell you that it's too early to read me and that i'm still well in my scumrange

As someone who's experienced scum!skitter, I can agree with this.

[AaronFrost]

Skit reads fairly town here, in my opinion.

To answer both Aaron and Skit, no I don't think S_S was obvious scum, but I had a bad feeling regarding his posts concerning setup spec. I'm not sure "the posts were negative and shooting down theories constantly" makes sense but that's probably how I'd put into words. As scum I do that fairly often, I tend to get angry really fast, try to shut down setup theories or at least approach them with a very negative mind ("It's that's true then why did you do this? You must be scum!"). That's what I did in Cats with Nero Cain regarding his night actions and his viability as a town!rolecop if you remember Skitter. I get the same vibe from S_S, so I feel pressure is deserved there.

Huh I actually kinda like this response. Not sure I agree with the skitter townread though.

[AaronFrost]

Skit reads fairly town here, in my opinion.

To answer both Aaron and Skit, no I don't think S_S was obvious scum, but I had a bad feeling regarding his posts concerning setup spec. I'm not sure "the posts were negative and shooting down theories constantly" makes sense but that's probably how I'd put into words. As scum I do that fairly often, I tend to get angry really fast, try to shut down setup theories or at least approach them with a very negative mind ("It's that's true then why did you do this? You must be scum!"). That's what I did in Cats with Nero Cain regarding his night actions and his viability as a town!rolecop if you remember Skitter. I get the same vibe from S_S, so I feel pressure is deserved there.

I feel buddied

What about this post makes you think nom is buddying you? Feels like a weird accusation to make here.

[AaronFrost]

flubb why do you feel so different rn from like the last at least two times that i've played with you?

Because I'm not a VT?

More likely than not everyone is some kind of PR in this game, so the logic of "I'm playing different because I'm a PR" doesn't hold up as well here.

[AaronFrost]

I don't like this VC. It seems that we are clueless.

Thank you captain obvious

[AaronFrost]

Aaron feels weird rn

Spoiler:

[AaronFrost]

Aaron feels weird rn

Spoiler:

Idk why, other than you feel different than that normal from like a month ago. Granted i was scum there, but eh you felt ~obvtownie~ to the point i couldnt really push you easily

Aaron feels weird rn

Strange thing to say after #271. Sounds like 'no u'.

Ok

Fair enough. I've been trying to play a little more aggressive as of lately.

Don't really like your response to Kerset here.

VOTE: skitter

[AaronFrost]

I don't like this VC. It seems that we are clueless.

It’s….250 posts do you want a wagon of 6 votes? This is great a lot of people have different opinions. We have 8 days left to come to an answer. This is an awful viewpoint that doesn’t feel real mostly because of how bad and ‘clueless’ it is. It feels like playing stupid.

Aaron is becoming a scumread the more he posts. It just feels like a bunch of useless questions that aren’t really getting anywhere. Just trying to seem like he’s doing something. (See 270-272 along with his question to me)

Why is S_S obvious scum to some of you people? I overblew the read a little bit just so you guys would get off the awful mech talk. So seeing ‘obvious’ is strange. I do like nomnoms answer but the others are hmmm

Regardless for now VOTE: Aaron

I'm very confused by this post. You were the only one saying that SS was 'obvscum' and only you and nom placed your votes there. Then you place your vote on someone who didn't really participate in the setup spec.

We were starting to move away from it at that point so there wasn't much need to purposefully exaggerate that 'a little bit' (calling someone obvscum on page 5 is exaggerating way more than just 'a little bit' by the way).

[AaronFrost]

So far Luca feels pretty townie. His posts are consistent with what I'd expect his towngame to be.

[AaronFrost]

@Aaron - in Haunted, the setup spec was almost entirely led by scum. The primary contributors from my memory were Vork and NaCl. The people that were trying to end it were all town.

My issue with Xayah isn't that she was trying to stop setup spec. My issue was the inconsistency between 110 (SS is obvscum because setup spec) and 307 (why is SS obvscum to you people?) followed by the vote someone who had little participation in it. How did we get from point A to point B?

Could the players doing setup spec be scum? Sure, but I'm not willing to lynch someone just because of that.

[AaronFrost]

@Aaron, the above was in response to your 187.

Oh right not sure why I thought it was in response to that. Point still stands.

[AaronFrost]

@Luca: what previous experience do you have with Aaron that justifies him both having reasonable expectations of your typical towngame, and also, do you think that his confidence you're town is justified by your performance in this game based on that previous experience?

Two games previous, one where I was scum and he was town, and one where I was town and he was scum.

Kerset could be scum. They parked their vote on me pretty early for weak reasoning and posts have been mostly fluff other than early game setup spec.

[AaronFrost]

Vote: Aaron

They followed my mini 1v1 with a townread on me, potential soft buddy to avoid stirring me as an unknown quantity which is enough to jump on a wagon.

If I was scum trying to buddy you then why would I be townreading the person you're 1v1ing?

[AaronFrost]

are you really that confident in a townread on someone based on a sample size of one town game?

I mean I'm obviously not 100% confident in it and it's mostly an early game gut read.

moreover, wouldn't you expect that Luca would probably go out of their way to appear reminiscent of their towngame to someone with a limited sample size to go off?

Yeah of course that possibility has crossed my mind.

forgot to say: vote kerset with me then? =]

[AaronFrost]

Whoops accidentally hit send to early.

Meant to VOTE: Kerset

[AaronFrost]

@Aaron: how likely do you think it is that Luca is buddying you?

Why do you ask? Do you think that just because he's townreading me that means he buddying me? It's feels more like you're trying to buddy me right now which is weird given that one of the first things you did was join my wagon.

[AaronFrost]

leantown: {Kerset}
null: {wooper, Sirfetchd, Sujimichi, skitter30, nomnomnom, AaronFrost, Flubbernugget, Billy Pilgrim, rb, Luca Blight, Xayah, PMysterious}

So you have no scumreads?

[AaronFrost]

ok

Is this your response to everything this game?

[AaronFrost]

@Aaron: how likely do you think it is that Luca is buddying you?

Why do you ask? Do you think that just because he's townreading me that means he buddying me? It's feels more like you're trying to buddy me right now which is weird given that one of the first things you did was join my wagon.

i think he was buddying you to get you to join his wagon

I do think Kerset is legitimately scummy but I also agree with you here. It felt like rb was trying to condition me on what to think and I'm not a fan of that.

[AaronFrost]

id be willing to lynch SS just for that, but i think you're a better lynch (=

forgot to say: vote kerset with me then? =]

Yeah actually looking back I don't see how this is town motivated. How do we get from "Aaron is a good lynch right now" to "Aaron come vote Kerset with me?" It just feels disingenuous and like it's manipulating me into doing something that others might perceive as scummy.

VOTE: rb

[AaronFrost]

you know, i think kerset is pretty likely to be scum here

because it's like a soft accusation that i'm scum, but never actually says it. it's like, "haha oh yeah sure, you "forgot" - the natural follow-up would be to then say why they think i'm lying? or think i'm scum?

also: their only focus on all the content i've provided so far is not any of the opinions i've had about the game, but literally just the post in which i said, "i'm backreading"

this doesn't scan to me as town, whether new player or not.

VOTE: kerset

I think rb and me are very much like-minded in this regard and I think this very precise observation applies to most of Kerset's iso. This post sounds town.

So basically you think rb is town because you have similar opinions on Kerset? That is a dangerous mindset to have.

[AaronFrost]

Don't know how I feel about the topic just being behind the Kerset and rb slot. Kerset has really bad arguments but the approach they bring to the game feels towny. I think we should still go for Aaron here. Rb is just gonna be...well rb

Bad post. Trying to distract from the Kerset/rb discussions.

[AaronFrost]

you know, i think kerset is pretty likely to be scum here

because it's like a soft accusation that i'm scum, but never actually says it. it's like, "haha oh yeah sure, you "forgot" - the natural follow-up would be to then say why they think i'm lying? or think i'm scum?

also: their only focus on all the content i've provided so far is not any of the opinions i've had about the game, but literally just the post in which i said, "i'm backreading"

this doesn't scan to me as town, whether new player or not.

VOTE: kerset

I think rb and me are very much like-minded in this regard and I think this very precise observation applies to most of Kerset's iso. This post sounds town.

So basically you think rb is town because you have similar opinions on Kerset? That is a dangerous mindset to have.

I believe that if someone makes the same observations as me at such a level (as in, not surface level) and that I am town, then we're approaching the game with the same mindset which implies that rb is more town as a result. I'm aware of the danger but I think in this case I prefer to trust the mind melding.

I think scum could just as easily fake it by 'agreeing' with a townie who trusts them/is townreading them and using then using that trust to get them to vote whichever wagon they want.

[AaronFrost]

Why's that wrong?

Brushing off rb's actions as 'well that's just how rb behaves so what so let's jump back on this irrelevant wagon instead.' She clearly hasn't taken anything I've said since her initial vote on me and analyzed it.

PEDIT: I'm implying that rb could be scum trying to manipulate me/you/possibly others to voting Kerset.

[AaronFrost]

Frost, are you still sr’ing Skitter?

A bit, but not enough to push at the moment.

[AaronFrost]

Aaron feels SO odd in this discussion right now. It feels like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. There's something that's hard to pinpoint about you talking about rb and Kerset, but like... I'm getting suspicious of you about how you made a 180 on your Kerset read and I have the intuition that you're essentially locking yourself out of your Kerset read, because rb must be scum. That's how it feels like to me.

pedit: Also what the hell are those Billy votes? I am genuinely puzzled.

Not really a 180 on the read, but I don't think rb and Kerset are ever a team here and I find rb to be scummier at the moment.

[AaronFrost]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

So now you're backtracking? How did you come to this conclusion?

[AaronFrost]

id be willing to lynch SS just for that, but i think you're a better lynch (=

forgot to say: vote kerset with me then? =]

Yeah actually looking back I don't see how this is town motivated. How do we get from "Aaron is a good lynch right now" to "Aaron come vote Kerset with me?" It just feels disingenuous and like it's manipulating me into doing something that others might perceive as scummy.

VOTE: rb

why would others perceive you as scummy?

in fact, why so concerned about what others think of your alignment?

it's quite simple: i voted the wagon i believed most likely to flip scum, but then my kerset scumread outweighed this. as a result, i wanted to see if you'd vote my best scumread in the game

the real question is why you think it's weird that i would want more people to vote my strongest scumread

it's a thing i always am baffled by when people decide my play is 'scummy' because i like to have other people voting my best scumreads. your vote is the most important tool in the game, no?

So why aren't you have people vote for me right now?

Wanting people to vote your scumreads isn't weird, but the way you went about it felt like you were trying to tell me how to think and that's manipulative.

[AaronFrost]

rb does feel verbose but I need to think about that.

I think Kerset's end of the interaction was very odd for sure. I'll even go ahead and VOTE: Kerset. That iso is textbook pessimistic scum having a very low vote/fos ratio. I think the key to decoding rb is actually residing in Kerset's wall.

ok

i reread:

a) rb is verbose, sure, but that's not what i'm particularly taking issue with, it's that his posts are manipulative and seemed designed to 1. get aaron to doubt his townread of luca 2. buddy aaron

b) this is why i found rb to be scummy

c) i still don't particularly have thoguhts on kerset. i read their convo a few times and it just kinda ~is~

if you read my posts you'll see that i think luca is also a scumread of mine

So i questioned why aaron townreads him, because aaron said he has prior experience. that means i have two thoughts: how much experience, how relevant it is, and whether or not aaron realises that scum!luca would be aware of this and is likely to play in a way that would get a townread from aaron

these are the things i would expect town!aaron to consider, so when i ask aaron to outline these things, what im searching for is not to make aaron doubt his read: but for information that shows me that aaron himself is going through these processes.

questioning aaron's read is about me finding out aaron's alignment, not about me 'throwing shade' at luca

i have only one vote however, and it makes no real sense for me to simultaneously split my pressure across two slots. i can't realistically push for a kerset wagon as well as a luca wagon - but that doesn't mean i won't try to find out other people's alignments in the process

I mean yeah of course I've considered the fact that my early D1 reads could be wrong, in fact it happens pretty much every game I play. Most of my D1 reads are based on gut/previous experience.

[AaronFrost]

Noms you seem to have some experience with skitter. She's made some pretty weak points at this juncture. Is that normal; is it indicative of her alignment?

I'd say this is NAI for skitter.

[AaronFrost]

Don't know how I feel about the topic just being behind the Kerset and rb slot. Kerset has really bad arguments but the approach they bring to the game feels towny. I think we should still go for Aaron here. Rb is just gonna be...well rb

Bad post. Trying to distract from the Kerset/rb discussions.

Why didn't you say this about Sirfetch?

Because his pushes on other players who aren't rb/Kerset feel much more natural and town-motivated.

[AaronFrost]

who is the scummiest player in the game then?

Probably aaron or bilky

I havent read any of kerset's previous games

I feel like you've been shading me a bit but haven't actually pushed me or even voted for me.

[AaronFrost]

@Aaron - 364 what convinced you to vote Kerset other than rb asking you to?

Pretty much wanted to move off of nom for the time being and onto someone else + the reasons I laid out in 295.

[AaronFrost]

I linked to the wrong fucking post lmao

Meant to link to 356

[AaronFrost]

Aaron's 477 feels like a way to try and keep the discussion on Kerset and rb and off of him. I dont know that scum would be so transparent about this, but it pinged me. Liking S_S even more when hes talking about the player list rather than theory and mechanics though.

So you think town!Aaron would just allow himself to get wagoned while not voicing my opinions on players I find scummy?

[AaronFrost]

I'm liking nom's posts for town better. SS and Luca are pretty townie as well.

Not sure where all the scumreads on Billy came from. He hasn't really done much to swing me one way or the other.

[AaronFrost]

@Aaron - 364 what convinced you to vote Kerset other than rb asking you to?

Pretty much wanted to move off of nom for the time being and onto someone else + the reasons I laid out in 295.

I linked to the wrong fucking post lmao

Meant to link to 356

You weren't on nom there though. You were on Skitter. And at 484, you said you were still scumreading her but not enough to push.

So you're still scumreading Skitt at 484, but it was Skitt that caused you to rethink your rb read and you voted rb at Skitt'direction after earlier voting Kerset at Skitt's direction. Who are you town reading and why? You said you wanted to move off of nom, but it was Skitt, so why did you want to move off of Skitt given that as late as 484, you were still scumreading her?

Fuck why did I forget that I voted for skitter? I swear university has fried my brain this semester.

skitter didn't cause me to rethink anything. I didn't like rb's entrance at first either and I never once mentioned that I was townreading them. I moved off of skitter because I felt Kerset was a better wagon at that point.

See 672 for who I'm townreading.

[AaronFrost]

who is the scummiest player in the game then?

Probably aaron or bilky

I havent read any of kerset's previous games

I feel like you've been shading me a bit but haven't actually pushed me or even voted for me.

i don't really think i've been shading you

a) you feel ~very~ different to the last game we played
b) i'm not sure what the right words are exactly, but you're like reacting to the wrong things? the reasons for your early votes feel kinda fabricated.

a) Fair criticism. I am playing differently than I did in 2099.

b) Nothing fabricated here, but what kinds of things do you think I should be reacting to?

[AaronFrost]

@Billy

I'd like an answer for this

Aaron's 477 feels like a way to try and keep the discussion on Kerset and rb and off of him. I dont know that scum would be so transparent about this, but it pinged me. Liking S_S even more when hes talking about the player list rather than theory and mechanics though.

So you think town!Aaron would just allow himself to get wagoned while not voicing my opinions on players I find scummy?

[AaronFrost]

Probably gonna reread this thread with fresh eyes at some point. Not tonight but sometime soon.

[AaronFrost]

Nope

[AaronFrost]

He does and my opinions could change upon a reread

[AaronFrost]

a) Fair criticism. I am playing differently than I did in 2099.

b) Nothing fabricated here, but what kinds of things do you think I should be reacting to?

a) why are you playing differently?

b) i particularly disliked your nom vote and vote on me. I'm not sure why nom's flub vote was a voteworthy event
And the vote on me is one of the places i was thinking you reacted weirdly ...

Both of these felt like very ~snap~ reactions, if that makes sense

Oh i guess i figured out how to articulate the difference compared ro the mini - you feel a lot more reactive and like ~less thought ~ is going into your posts almost

It was nom's vote on SS that I reacted to.

I think that's a fair criticism of my play here and I think part of the reason I've been 'snappier' here is because of stress in my irl life and when I get stressed I tend to snap at people without realizing it.

Like I said before I'm gonna try and reread this game with fresh eyes at some point.

[AaronFrost]

Hey I'm still alive college has been kicking my ass this week. I'll get to this later this afternoon.

[AaronFrost]

Alright so after rereading here's what I got.

I've moved skitter up to a townlean. In the mini I played with her about a month ago where she was scum, she was a lot more reserved and didn't actively push people as much as she's doing here. She feels like she has a genuine interest in finding scum and her pushes feel natural.

I'm not sure why I was scumreading rb so much? I think I initially disliked the way they came after me upon their entrance and had a few weird plays early on, but a lot of their points against Kerset are valid. I still stand by my statement of rb/Kerset are probably never scum together, but a lot of the things rb is doing feel townie enough.

SS, Sirfetchd and Luca are still townreads.

I think Xayah and Kerset are both good lynch options today. Xayah's hop on the Billy wagon was veeeery fishy and 875 pinged the shit out of me as well. I don't like how she hasn't pushed me at all despite supposedly being one of her stronger scumreads. Why hop on the Billy wagon if that's not your preferred lynch today? And why not do more to convince the everyone else to vote me if you think I'm scum?

Kerset's vote on Billy, while not as bad as Xayah's, feels like it was done reluctantly. Why exactly did you vote for Billy anyways? 856 is super sketch. No one is forcing you to do anything so I'm really confused why you feel pressured into joining a wagon that you might not even agree with (you haven't really given a proper stance on Billy, but the *sigh* followed by the vote on him makes it seem like you are reluctant to vote there).

[AaronFrost]

I also dislike the fact that we have four slots (Suji, wooper, Flubb, PM) that have barely given us anything to work with. Suji's early game posting was okay but then they sort of disappeared off the face of the earth. wooper apparently doesn't care about this game right now, not sure what that says about his alignment. I'm getting absolutely zero alignment tells from Flubb and PM needs to be more active.

[AaronFrost]

Billy feels a little off too compared to how I've seen him play before, but not quite sure how I'd describe it. I don't like how quickly that wagon built up speed though and right now I'd prefer a lynch on Xayah/Kerset over Billy.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Xayah because I forgot to in my other posts.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Aaron

Just to prove a point.

If this flips scum Kerset is 100% scum as well. In fact I'd say that Kerset's first post was obvious distancing given that the point he made against Aaron is literally never brought up again. You'd think that for a player talking about mech it's still important but apparently it's not anymore so.

ftr, Aaron's post makes no sense from a townie perspective because he states that he's okay with a Kerset or a Xayah lynch yet goes on Xayah for no reason given that a townie would see Kerset having 4 posts on him and join that wagon but instead goes for a vanity vote with 4 days left on the clock. That's really scummy and there's no reason for Aaron to do this unless he doesn't care about wagons which is awful, or has a specific reason to think Xayah has more chances to flip scum which he has not stated. I'm willing to bet that Aaron is playing the best of both worlds here by getting townie points in case Kerset gets flipped but still not contributing to Kerset's lynch in any way whatsoever. Scum agenda right there.

So your logic is that because I'm going for the player I think has a higher chance of flipping scum that makes me scum? Wouldn't the opposite be true too in that case? Wouldn't you think that if I'm scum I'd be much more satisfied hopping on the Kerset wagon? I've stated my reasons why think Xayah is scum and I'm clearly not the only one thinking this way, but because I'm the first to act on it that makes me the bad guy?

[AaronFrost]

ass

Aaron/Xayah thoughts on this post?

Disagree with their reasons for scumreading rb but other than that not much to say about it.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Aaron
Thank goodness

Yeah this one's scum. Did you really need to wait until someone else voted for me before you voted yourself?

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Xayah because I forgot to in my other posts.

you're voting xayah over kerset here because ...

Because I think they're more likely to flip red.

Why aren't you voting Xayah? You've made it apparent that you're okay with lynching them.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Aaron
Thank goodness

Yeah this one's scum. Did you really need to wait until someone else voted for me before you voted yourself?

Yes

Why?

[AaronFrost]

We have a lot more content and reasons to get either one of Kerset and/or Aaron lynched. Xayah lacks in content. If she's scum then she'll have to be a day 2+ lynch imo. I did say her vote felt off but it's just a bad feeling in my chest nothing more. This wagon is stupid and formed way too quickly on a player that doesn't do much. Notice how other wagons took much more time to do so.

pedit: Luca look at what Aaron just did and you'll see why he's scum. He's saying that he's fine with either a Kerset or Xayah lynch yet doesn't push Kerset with 4 votes on him at the time, in favor of Xayah which is essentially a vanity vote considering no one was voting her prior. That makes absolutely no sense from what he posted. That's why he's scum.

Uhh...

Xayah's been pinging me a bunch lately as well. These plays make me uneasy.

Who are the scum driving this wagon in your eyes? Just saying you don’t like a wagon that much isn’t really going to do much to stop it.

Funnily enough I think you're the scummiest person on that wagon, as I said earlier. You feel off.

You clearly find Xayah scummy. So why are you all of a sudden not willing to lynch her?

[AaronFrost]

And why exactly do you want Frost lynched?

Aaron needed some way to vote me without it just being glaringly obvious. He also was one of the first real wagons that magically went away. For... no reason at all? Compared to other wagons at least

And this is my fault how?

[AaronFrost]

I don't expect to be tr for it. The reason I barely mention billy is because I don't have much on him in the first place. I didn't think at the moment I could get my confident scumread lynched. So I went with a good plan B.

i mean you didn't try to get aaron lynched at all

This is why I think Xayah is scum. Her reasons for scumreading me initially were fine, but then she never went anywhere with it and just 'expected' everyone else to go along with it. She didn't try to push me or question me at all. Then she votes Billy because... why? Then feels like she needs to wait for someone else to cast their vote against me before hopping back onto me.

[AaronFrost]

I don't expect to be tr for it. The reason I barely mention billy is because I don't have much on him in the first place. I didn't think at the moment I could get my confident scumread lynched. So I went with a good plan B.

i mean you didn't try to get aaron lynched at all

This is why I think Xayah is scum. Her reasons for scumreading me initially were fine, but then she never went anywhere with it and just 'expected' everyone else to go along with it. She didn't try to push me or question me at all. Then she votes Billy because... why? Then feels like she needs to wait for someone else to cast their vote against me before hopping back onto me.

Okay, so you're listing out my actions but why are my actions more likely to come from scum than town?
I did post why you were scum no one followed so I caught up moved on etc. I didn't see a need to question you cause there was nothing in my mind to really question about your actions.

Because it feels more like you're trying to 'go with the flow' so to speak. You never properly explained why you switched over to Billy. Also I would disagree with your inability to start a wagon on me and think you could've accomplished it easily at that point. Other players had voiced concerns about my play and you could've started a wagon on me pretty easily if you had put a little more effort into pushing me, which I think you would've if you were town who legitimately thought I was scummy.

[AaronFrost]

Also just gonna post this for everyone's convenience.

I also dislike the fact that we have four slots (Suji, wooper, Flubb, PM) that have barely given us anything to work with. Suji's early game posting was okay but then they sort of disappeared off the face of the earth. wooper apparently doesn't care about this game right now, not sure what that says about his alignment. I'm getting absolutely zero alignment tells from Flubb and PM needs to be more active.

[AaronFrost]

Does no-one agree that we’re better off lynching someone less likely to be a Pr on D1?

We're pretty likely to lynch a pr no matter who we go for today though so does it really matter? I don't think it would be the end of the world if we did.

[AaronFrost]

If Xayah flips red nom is probably her partner. nom's not even trying to refute anything that I'm saying in defense of my vote on Xayah and continues to push the idea "Aaron's posts are bad he must be scum."

[AaronFrost]

Not if we lynch Billy.

I think we're better off lynching where we think we're most likely to hit scum.

[AaronFrost]

We don't even know for sure that Billy is vanilla though? Yeah he was last on the draft list so he's the most likely to be vanilla but that doesn't 'necessarily' mean he's vanilla.

[AaronFrost]

My point is that we have a chance of lynching a pr no matter who we go for.

[AaronFrost]

In a game where most players are PRs, I don't think lynching one is going to be the end of the world. And if we hit a scum PR, then that's a huge advantage for the town.

Also I just realized your avatar is the album cover for Origin of Symmetry by Muse.

I'm gonna ISO Billy. I did feel a little sketched out by him but I don't exactly remember why.

[AaronFrost]

Also I just realized your avatar is the album cover for Origin of Symmetry by Muse.

It's an awesome album.

It is. Muse is underrated.

[AaronFrost]

I guess i am alone with this idea and single vote won't make itUNVOTE: Suji
Luca the thing that you are missing is that aaron never speak up about things outside common agreement. He always pick up things that people already stated view on and try to fit there, i bet that his ISO on billy will be another example of it. S_s, skitter, rb, siffetch, somehow billy and even xaya gave some new view on things, something that came from new perspective. Aaron is just milling already stated thoughts, which is SI for me. VOTE: Aaron

This is terrible reasoning and is not even remotely true. If I was trying to 'fit in' like you're claiming I am, then I would've joined your wagon instead of voting Xayah and starting that wagon. Agreeing with thoughts that others have is not scummy behavior.

And the ironic thing is that by joining my wagon you're doing exactly what you've just criticized me for.

[AaronFrost]

i guess part of me is stuck in that when i compare this game to the prior one i've played with town!him he feels ~quite~ different. he was kinda like obvtown there and very ... not agressive exactly, but more insistent on getting his pov across, he feels a lot more reactive here in comparison, and like he's just kinda posting without thinking about it too / the implications too much
i don't have meta on scum!him tho

i also don't particularly like his voting pattern

Aaron Fucking Frost's one and only horribly played scum game

I don't usually like using self-meta as an argument but since others have brought it up I might as well link to my scum game.

[AaronFrost]

I like his tone around page 44 - I believe he is the main wagon at this point but is still expressing his point in a calm, reasoned manner (even though the opinion he is expressing of lynching regardless of PR’s doesn’t help himself atm, a likely pr).

Frost is maintaining his view despite the pressure. He could have gone on Billy or Kerset which would have been easier going, but he seems to genuinely want the Xayah Lynch.

I would be willing to compromise on lynching Kerset if the Xayah wagon doesn't go through, but I'd still prefer to lynch Xayah today.

I also maintain my stance on lynching PRs.

[AaronFrost]

Between aaron or kerset i'd push kerset if I had the certainty he'd be lynched.

VOTE: Kerset

I don't have faith in a Xayah lynch.

Not sure what you mean by this?

[AaronFrost]

Sure he could go for billy or me but don't tell me that xaya wasn't easy thing to push. It was clearly a forming wagon and there was no difficulty atm. He did get pressure for bad execution of this plan but he would only lose by backing off at this point ( rb gives chocolates).

Why would I take that risk as scum though? Yeah plenty of people are on board with lynching Xayah but the wagon is also being met with relative resistance. Kerset/Billy wagons had almost no resistance to them so if I'm scum then placing my vote on one of those is the objectively better move. The only reason I would do this as scum is if I believed that Xayah got some really strong power that I was afraid but right now there is no reason to believe that.

[AaronFrost]

Sure he could go for billy or me but don't tell me that xaya wasn't easy thing to push. It was clearly a forming wagon and there was no difficulty atm. He did get pressure for bad execution of this plan but he would only lose by backing off at this point ( rb gives chocolates).

Why would I take that risk as scum though? Yeah plenty of people are on board with lynching Xayah but the wagon is also being met with relative resistance. Kerset/Billy wagons had almost no resistance to them so if I'm scum then placing my vote on one of those is the objectively better move. The only reason I would do this as scum is if I believed that Xayah got some really strong power that I was afraid but right now there is no reason to believe that.

My wagon didn't show any resistance until recently. You didn't vote me recently you voted me when you thought it would go through.

You missed my point. My point is that if I'm scum, it's an objectively better move to join the Kerset or Billy wagons instead of starting another wagon when I did.

[AaronFrost]

Billy is hiding behind walls, asking pointless questions and generally playing it safe. He’s also nitpicking on small things and making them out to be bigger than they are, for example: the Skitter incident where she forgot she hadn’t voted suji, and me calling him a good town player, which he disagreed with and reconsidered his read on me based on, even though I believe I’ve complimented him on his Town game previously.

During the Jackal mini game he was getting his hands dirty, asking relevant questions, not afraid to express unpopular opinions etc. He was more generally scumread as a result, but I could see the townie mindset. This game is like his scum game - always staying behind the pace of the game and making long, information filled posts rather than actively interacting and sorting players.

I feel like the only case you have against Billy right now is that he's playing like he did in his scum game. I do agree that he is playing a bit more reserved a quiet compared to how I've seen him play as town in the past but I also don't have experience with scum!Billy so I can't really say for sure. I would like to hear him defend himself but I'd rather not lynch someone if the only argument against them is meta.

And yes I realize how this sounds coming from me given that fact that my meta is being used for and against me right now.

[AaronFrost]

I normally hate such arguments as ‘I wouldn’t play like this as scum’ but I can actually see this one; she probably would have been more self-aware as scum. I feel like giving Xayah the benefit of the doubt for now.

I’m still up for a Kerset Lynch if no-one wants Billy?

I'd be willing to compromise on lynching Kerset but I'm not down for lynching Billy today. I think I'll be able to get a better read on him as the game continues on.

[AaronFrost]

I have to say that 72 hours per prod seems too high, especially when prod dodges are seemingly allowed.

I’m a little confused as to why Frost is so against the Billy lynch. I think even independent of meta he looks very suspect due to the way he is approaching the game, and the fact this is far from his usual town play style supports this. Do you have any reason to think Billy is Town?

It's not so much that I think Billy is going to flip town but more that I think the case against him is weak and mostly meta-based. If I had to make a list of lynch candidates he'd probably be like fourth on the list. If someone were to make a strong case against him then I could be convinced but right now I'd prefer Xayah or Kerset over him.

[AaronFrost]

Also I agree with 72 hours being too high for prod timers, especially when deadlines are 10 days. I think 48 is perfectly reasonable.

[AaronFrost]

Separated because the submit button disapears for me if the post becomes too long on mobile

Wooper - pm is being awful, i agree, but i dont think that's the best vote with the amount of time left. We ought to be consolidating

Luca is being obvtown

Sirfetched - why are you scumreading me, exactly?

Ok this has been a Jumble Of Thoughts (tm) and is roughly what i'm thinking now. I hope to be around tomorrow night before deadline

Your stream of consciousness is regularly inaccurate or at least I think it's inaccurate, and you have said extremely little with the highest post count which says to me that you are saying very little.

I think skitter hyper posts like this as either alignment tbh.

[AaronFrost]

No, but I wouldn't really use that as a reason to push scum!skitter either.

[AaronFrost]

Looking at the most recent VC looks like it's either Billy or a no lynch. I am willing to vote Billy even though Xayah is my preferred lynch.

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

[AaronFrost]

Aaron you should say L-1, when person is one vote away from lynch.

This is a weird thing to focus on after a scum flip but I didn't think it was necessary after we had just had a vc on the same page. I felt it was pretty clear that my vote put them at L-1.

[AaronFrost]

I believe Nom was the main opposer to the initial Billy wagon, and pushed it onto Frost again for what I considered to be poor reasoning.

Frost was also protecting Billy in a way which was a little strange, however. He wasn’t particularly townreading Billy so even before the flip I found it strange how much he was protecting him. I need to do some more digging but atm I think there’s a good chance one of these are scum.

I can see why you think this but I wouldn't say I was trying to protect him, moreso that I was unsure and thought there were better lynch options at the time.

[AaronFrost]

I have a good feeling that perhaps scum was on that wagon late for townpoints. Just an intuition.

What are your opinions on Suji and Kerset then?

[AaronFrost]

I admit I am still confused that Billy out of all people in this playerlist is getting wagoned. It just feels so random, so much of an easy target to go after, the guy had barely any content and people went after him on day 1 with people making extremely dodgy posts. I still don't understand. I think that the wagon is extremely bad and probably has scum in it. I can't comprehend how people went to the conclusion that Billy was a good lynch. Even if you forget Kerset there are a lot of people worthy of scrutiny that got off relatively easy and I think that is no coincidence.

pedit: @Luca I am conflicted. I think I can't in good conscience put her anywhere else than Null. She's making extremely odd moves here that I'm not used to see, although again I've seen her do this in a micro with me where I thought the fact that she missed a logical conclusion for an entire day was perhaps indicative of a scum mindset, but she was town and simply paranoid of people. But here I don't get that at all so I'm just confused.

I don't like this Billy wagon, it comes out of nowhere and is lacking in substance, at least the way I see it. The argument is completely meta-driven as well so I am unconvinced, why are people joining this wagon?

Yeah nom's ISO in relation to Billy is really bad. After these two posts where she's clearly opposed to the Billy wagon and tries to actively push it onto either me/Kerset there is no other mention of Billy for the rest of the day. Even when the wagon builds up speed, she still tries to push the vote elsewhere.

Her entire Day 2 is bad in relation to Billy's flip as well.

[AaronFrost]

Good lynch

, didn't expect Billy to actually flip scum.

Also was 100% sure that rb was town, called it!

What's the plan today?

That's not what you were saying yesterday.

[AaronFrost]

I have a good feeling that perhaps scum was on that wagon late for townpoints. Just an intuition.

This is possible too. Suji was kind of sketching me out toward the end of the day.

[AaronFrost]

I'd like to correct you on one point: I did not oppose Billy's lynch, I was unsure he would flip scum.

A real opposition would be when people started voting rb en masse and I went out my way to defend them. THAT is opposition. I'm pleasantly surprised that billy flipped scum so that's a plus, but I'm not scum and lynching me would ruin our momentum.

Frost would be a good lynch today I believe.

That is what you did with Billy though, as evidenced by the fact that you tried to push the wagon onto me or Kerset.

[AaronFrost]

Haven't revisited kerset yet so still a scumlean.

Also yes I feel I'm up against it because I can read a gamestate and on top of avoiding getting lynched, I want to redirect town's attention on a scum lynch pattern rather than waste time on me, and in worse case scenario make me flip and giving scum some room to breathe. That's bad.

Dude she just admitted to trying to avoid getting lynched. Of course someone who's under pressure as scum is going to say "you're wasting time on me move to someone else."

Deflection to the highest degree.

VOTE: nom

[AaronFrost]

It's a courtesy, not a rule, but it's just as polite to announce intent before hammering usually

But it was also like 6 hours to deadline or whatever so at that point it was kinda inevitable

I guess i'm kinda confused why you're calling out aaron and not suji there

Pedit @kerset

Back there i still wasn't sure whenever suji was aware that it was a hammer(at the moment of post), so i didn't want to start trivial argues in which he could make various standpoints.

I'm willing to give Suji the benefit of the doubt that they knew it was a hammer, but it was still a sketchy hammer imo.

[AaronFrost]

I don't really see how I'm negative. If you want to see true negativity you need to read some of the other games I played, people like skitter can assess for me how frustrated and unhinged I can get

But this game ain't one of those.

Also let's see what happens if I VOTE: Aaron

There were definitely points where you got frustrated on Day 1.

[AaronFrost]

Skitter is Town

, if that still needed pointing out. SS I’m pretty sure is Town as well.

Mind walking me through this read? I'm still unsure about skitter.

[AaronFrost]

I don't want to waste a mislynch on me considering that we profit from revisiting other slots.

You will learn absolutely nothing about the scumteam by lynching me. You'll end up in day 3 scratching your head and stuff. I'm a bad lynch.

I still think Aaron is a good lynch by the by. His last posts feel like preparation to justify a vote on me. Keep this in mind if you actually go through lynching me today.

Of course I'm going to go through other slots and see how they acted with Billy/how Billy acted with them but right now you're my main suspect based on your interactions with Billy.

Bolded statements feel like generic filler scum defense.

So what's your opinion on Luca's vote then if you think I'm trying to 'justify' a vote on you?

[AaronFrost]

Spoiler: Every single mention of nom by Billy Pilgrim (Hint: There's not that many)

Ok catching up from my absence.
@nom - in 89, what part of the setup spec was flying over your head?

Ok catching up from my absence.
@nom - in 89, what part of the setup spec was flying over your head?

not really the setup, more like the numbers discussion I'd say.

I don't buy this. Your 99 was more than competent. I dont know that I see a scum motivation for you claiming incompetence when you clearly had it, but if something starts to feel off, I'm going to revisit this.

Ok catching up from my absence.
@nom - in 89, what part of the setup spec was flying over your head?

not really the setup, more like the numbers discussion I'd say.

I don't buy this. Your 99 was more than competent. I dont know that I see a scum motivation for you claiming incompetence when you clearly had it, but if something starts to feel off, I'm going to revisit this.

my what

Your post 99.

@nom - referring to 406. given that someone (it may have been you) said S_S plays pretty passively as scum wouldnt his lack of scumread also be part of his scum!game?

If I missed something then let me know but as far as I can tell, Billy never gave an actual read on nom and every single interaction with her felt like generic filler questions made to look like they were interacting.

PEDIT: You keep telling yourself that buddy. Meanwhile I'll be focused on actually scumhunting

[AaronFrost]

What's the plan if I flip town nom?

[AaronFrost]

One thing perhaps in Noms’ favour is the fact that she and Billy both had 4 as their first draft number, though I’m still not entirely sure what to make of that right now.

Question about Billy's meta since you've had experience with his scum game, how did he interact with his partner(s) in that game? I'm a little worried about that fact that there's little-to-no mention on nomx3 in his ISO whatsoever despite her being one of the more active posters.

[AaronFrost]

Nom, thoughts on Flubs?

Easy to forget about the guy so your vote makes sense and I approve of it. I could vote there honestly, although Aaron seems like a much better lynch if you forget the "look at the lurkers" angle.

I like how you twist your answer to his question to still talk about how I should be lynched. If that isn't scum pushing an agenda, then I don't know what is.

[AaronFrost]

Pressure of Flubb is good and necessary I think. Even if it just gets him active and posting in here so I could get some alignment tells off of him then I'm all for that.

[AaronFrost]

1507 could suggest nom/Flubb as the remaining scum

[AaronFrost]

I also don't really like Aaron's angles on nom.

Explain?

[AaronFrost]

@Frost: in his previous scum game Billy hardly interacted with his partner at all, maybe just once or twice. He never pushed or voted his partner, which leads me to believe the likes of Suji and Kerset are Town.

Then I strongly believe that nomx3 is scum here. nom's one of the most active posters here and there's very little mention of her in his ISO.

[AaronFrost]

why is this a scumclaim?

If you stopped and thought about it for two seconds you'd realize that there's no way in hell Billy wasn't vanilla.

So why was this posted?

Well, so Aaron could emphasize of course that there's NO WAY he knew what Billy's role was because they're DEFINITELY NOT PARTNERS.

:squint:

yeah i'm not sure i see that
it's def not a scumclaim

it doesn't read that way to me, it reads more like aaron doesn't understand the setup and doesn't entirely understand why it's unlikely for billy to be a pr than for him to be faking that imo

Understandable criticism. Being completely honest, there were aspects of this setup that confused me at first such as the draft pick. And I did acknowledge that Billy was unlikely to be a PR but there was still a small chance that he could've gotten one. Calling attention to my partner's potential role like that is something I would never do as scum.

[AaronFrost]

I think Xayah is less likely to flip scum since Billy flipped red so I might've been wrong on that read D1.

Flubbs is still null, I'm not getting any alignment tells from him even with his catchup. I agree with his point that we should look at who rb was scumreading.

[AaronFrost]

Rb wasn’t scumreading Nom, though.

rb was scumreading Kerset and Xayah and you've said both of them you think are town.

[AaronFrost]

My point is that I want to go through them and see what I can make of it. I don't really remember who rb was townreading tbh.

[AaronFrost]

Well it depends on why rb was killed. If we're going with the 'rb was killed because they were scumreading scum' then yeah nom is less likely to be scum here. If rb was killed because they were high on the draft pick and towntelling a lot (which I think is the more likely theory atm) then it doesn't change my read on nom.

[AaronFrost]

Not what I said but okay.

[AaronFrost]

And yet you're doing nothing to refute my points and resort to shading me in an attempt to get me lynched.

[AaronFrost]

What's the plan if I flip town nom?

[AaronFrost]

Then we look at who was really pushing for her lynch, which would make me the obvious candidate.

I don't see how nom flips town though. There's little-to-no attempt at scumhunting and all she's done today is throw shade at my without actually pushing me, choosing to let others push me for her.

[AaronFrost]

Skiter you should know this isn't my scumgame lol

I'm going to iso Wooper and Suji right now and see what I have.

Oh, right. How could I forget this very convincing argument.

[AaronFrost]

Scum can very easily throw townreads around like a beach ball on a hot summer's day.

[AaronFrost]

Skiter you should know this isn't my scumgame lol

I'm going to iso Wooper and Suji right now and see what I have.

Oh, right. How could I forget this very convincing argument.

They've done more than this (though a lot of it was self meta)

And that's all nom has done to defend themselves, by using self-meta.

[AaronFrost]

Yup. Because my self meta is actually a very good argument.

It's alright though, even if you get me lynched, the scum in Aaron/Flubs will be lynched, so this is very good for me

[AaronFrost]

Care to point to specific examples then?

[AaronFrost]

@Mod

can we get a prod on PM?

[AaronFrost]

I’m still undecided about you but starting to lean a little more to the town-side.

I’m feeling a bit frustrated atm because I have strong scumreads on all of Flubs, Noms and Frost, and it’s hard to put one read above the other atm. Then there’s PM who is basically not playing and is therefore unreadable. Xayah could also be doing a lot more.

wooper, PM, Xayah and Flubb could all be doing more. That's like 1/3 of the playerlist not doing anything. SS hasn't done much today either.

Like tinfoil hat theory, scum might just be coasting off the conflict between me and nom.

[AaronFrost]

I actually think getting a claim out of Flubs is necessary at this stage given Fetchd’s comments.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Flubs

Why is that?

[AaronFrost]

So basically you were only going to take Rb’s reads into account if they were convenient for you, otherwise they’re irrelevant.

i think this is a remarkably uncharitable way to understand aaron's post, i don't think this is what he was saying at all

pedit no. weren't you on the nom wagon? plz get back on it, ty

I know it wasn’t what he said, as I explained already - but it was his mindset based on his progression. Frost was supposedly interested in rb’s reads until it turned out he was townreading Nom, at which point Frost disregarded them.

I only disregarded that possibility when Flubb pointed out that rb was high up on the draft list, then it clicked that that why probably why rb was killed. It had nothing to do with rb's reads being convenient for me or not.

[AaronFrost]

I think my main issue with the nom wagon is that it doesn't make a heap of sense for today. Like sure, I get there's a solid line where nom is relationally scummy, but it feels like if it right sweet that is awesome, but if it is wrong, there is a very real issue with stagnation and zero game solve comes out of it. I think there's no concrete relationals outside skit, so that means you gotta make some.

tl;dr

nom is day 3/4 lynch, swing around votes and get multiple wagons going throughout the day bc I said so bc I am lazy.

This is bad reason for not lynching nom today. First of all, I can't even wrap my head around the fact that you wouldn't be willing to lynch somebody you find scummy. Second, that last statement is objectively false since nom's been pushed pretty aggressively today and if she flips town, then either the ones pushing her, or the ones who hopped on when the wagon got going are good lynch candidates for Day 3. I could see that logic being true if we had lynched town yesterday, but we didn't.

Who would you suggest lynching?

[AaronFrost]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nom

Out of my three main scumreads, you’re the one I’m expecting the most from and I’m not getting it atm.

I guess when I flip you'll understand that someone's activity has nothing to do with their alignment.

That's not why people are scumreading you though?

[AaronFrost]

it's kinda what it is. People are used to me posting a shitload and obvtowning but they're not getting that this game because I'm busy as fuck so they're voting me for it basically.

Just make sure you vote in flubs/aaron if you lynch me today I don't really care about the rest

This reeks of scum who's given up.

[AaronFrost]

Okay

[AaronFrost]

Most of the players here need to pick it up honestly. There's like five people actually playing right now.

[AaronFrost]

Probably that + it's nearing the holiday season and people are busy. I can tell you right now that my activity is going to be limited for the next few weeks while I finish this semester of university.

[AaronFrost]

Yeah I mean honestly I'm a computer science student so I usually have this website tabbed open while I work on assignments which is how I keep up with my games on here

[AaronFrost]

As I said it doesn't matter, when I flip scum you're going down lol

I assume you're talking about this Sirfetchd?

[AaronFrost]

I'm disappointed by SS's lack of contribution today too. I do think he is still town overall but I'm a lot less confident in that read than I was yesterday.

[AaronFrost]

Then why don't we just lynch someone and get this day overwith?

Honestly it's kind of frustrating when half of the playerlist is barely playing.

[AaronFrost]

I didn't know ducks could be fashionable.

[AaronFrost]

We should probably get a claim out of nom too.

[AaronFrost]

Well guess all we can do is wait for PM's replacement

[AaronFrost]

If nom flips red then Sirfetchd is likely the last scum.

1665 was very weak reasoning for not lynching nom today. 1702 hints that he is scumreading nom, but he doesn't want to commit to it which is evidenced by his vote on me.

[AaronFrost]

imagine if skitter was scum in a pypx/y game and we lynched her scumbuddies d1 & d2 and she solo carried for the win?
that wouldn't happen . . . right? that would just be silly . . . . . . right? haha~ ha

Well help me get one more vote on nom and I can confirm this for you ducky

[AaronFrost]

I meant that as a 'help me convince someone not on nom to switch to nom'

That or convince PM's replacement.

[AaronFrost]

What do you learn from my flip?

[AaronFrost]

I'd like Sirfetchd to answer this

What do you learn from my flip?

[AaronFrost]

I know I haven't been townie but really I have a lot of shit IRL and towning up is boring, I'd rather just push scum.

I'm thinking Flubs maybe has more chance flipping scum? He sounds really bad, moreso than Aaron. If I get lynched today I recommend a flubbs lynch first maybe

You haven't really been pushing anyone much though?

[AaronFrost]

If nom flips red then Sirfetchd is likely the last scum.

1665 was very weak reasoning for not lynching nom today. 1702 hints that he is scumreading nom, but he doesn't want to commit to it which is evidenced by his vote on me.

If you think nomnom will flip scum, I think that would make Sirfetch'd town for thinking nomnom is town since normally when a scum is about to get lynched, a scum buddy would always bus their scum buddy for the town cred.

Disagree. I could see this being true if it was like Day 4, but considering that we lynched scum yesterday I think the remaining scum would be more likely to stick together.

[AaronFrost]

As I said it doesn't matter, when I flip scum you're going down lol

Do you guys think this is an actual slip from nom? I'm leaning towards yes, but even without this I still think she's scum.

[AaronFrost]

The one thing that's niggling me about nom is that she also picked 4 in the draft.

I'm not saying that being in a double pair with scum is inherently townie, *but* if scum did in fact double up on purpose for the wifom i'd kinda expect scum to be referencing that to try to make themselves townier when in trouble ... that's why they'd have doubled up in the first place

And nom isnt doing that here

But her play this phase has been so awful that i'm not sure that counteracts that

Part of the reason that it's objectively better that we lynch nom today. I'm sorry, but on the 0.0001% chance that nom does flip green, then her play has been far from townie and is not someone I think we should bring to lylo.

The other reason - nom claimed VT. I'm 5th highest on the draft. Who's more likely to be a strong PR?

If people want me to claim then I will, but I'd rather hold off until at least tomorrow.

[AaronFrost]

As I said it doesn't matter, when I flip scum you're going down lol

Do you guys think this is an actual slip from nom? I'm leaning towards yes, but even without this I still think she's scum.

Aaron pls you are not helping. Hug wooper, relax and try to look at this without bias.

Hugs wooper

[AaronFrost]

As I said it doesn't matter, when I flip scum you're going down lol

Do you guys think this is an actual slip from nom? I'm leaning towards yes, but even without this I still think she's scum.

don't think it's really valuable leaning into that it's too easy to just typo it tf up

Yeah that's not the reason I find her scummy at all, I was just curious how other players saw that. Kerset's right that it is probably just bias.

[AaronFrost]

I think yesterday's flip also makes sense with Fetchd being scum.

[AaronFrost]

I would say there's a subset of useful roles and they should all be gone before Aaron gets a chance at any, so I don't see the difference.

That's all theoretical though and it really depends on what people pick. The argument shouldn't be 'what kinds of roles Aaron might or might not be able to get' because we've already gotten our roles. What matters is what role I actually got, and like the wooperduck said, I have already softed my role

[AaronFrost]

Posts not acknowledged

[AaronFrost]

lol I have to admit it's fun to see people scumread me for a thousand different reasons

if that doesn't ring an alarm bell that scum are pushing the easiest lynch by all means hammer me and feel stupid tomorrow lmao

Also Luca what the fuck is that about me and my ego about my scumgame and stuff? People trying to armchair psychology me or something damn

Bruh

[AaronFrost]

I agree we need to look into Xayah tomorrow.

[AaronFrost]

I'll be honest, my scum game is complete shit as I'm sure Luca can attest to

[AaronFrost]

I changed my mind about Aaron I figured this out. Lets goooo

This further reinforces my tinfoil hat theory. I will not be unvoting.

You don't think scum!nom would want you to think this?

[AaronFrost]

I changed my mind about Aaron I figured this out. Lets goooo

This further reinforces my tinfoil hat theory. I will not be unvoting.

You don't think scum!nom would want you to think this?

Think what, specifically?

That me and nom are both scum.

[AaronFrost]

Suji's currently voting for me I think.

[AaronFrost]

That me and nom are both scum.

I am unsure as to why you would ask this because her recent posting would suggest that she wants you two to not be associated together as scum, thus strengthening my tinfoil hat theory.

Yeah that's the point. If nom is scum with Xayah here, then she's probably trying to play into your tinfoil theory. You're also not the only person to suggest that theory either.

If she is town here then Xayah is probably still scum honestly.

[AaronFrost]

You're still the lynch today though. And I do still think you are scum.

[AaronFrost]

But if I think you and Xayah are the last two remaining scum, then does it matter what order you are lynched in? In the end, the result is the same, just in a different order.

[AaronFrost]

But if I think you and Xayah are the last two remaining scum, then does it matter what order you are lynched in? In the end, the result is the same, just in a different order.

Because by your own logic there's a chance I flip town here whereas you're saying Xayah is scum either way. That's literally the best vote right now in your world.

There's also a chance Xayah flips town as well, which is why I said 'I think' instead of saying 'I know.'

[AaronFrost]

I have softed which I mentioned earlier but if people want me to I can full claim.

[AaronFrost]

you know what
VOTE: xayah

Wooper bb why?

We can get Xayah tomorrow.

[AaronFrost]

Yea lets vote the only player that is on V/A. She won't even respond to our allegations...

I didn't even realize Xayah was on V/LA lmao

[AaronFrost]

Damn my reads are shit, which I guess shouldn't be all that surprising. Probably gonna reread at some point.

Would definitely be down to lynch Flubb.

[AaronFrost]

Hi wooper.

[AaronFrost]

Do you still think we should mass claim?

[AaronFrost]

No? I am supposed to?

[AaronFrost]

Hey Aaron. Do YOU know why I'm excited : (

Why are you so excited ducky?

[AaronFrost]

Interesting.

Wooper did you notice my actual crumb or was the whole 'Aaron might be N2 vig thing' yesterday just a diversion?

[AaronFrost]

I'm really bad at picking up on crumbs and PR softs.

[AaronFrost]

U

nderstandable criticism.

B

eing completely honest, there were aspects of this setup that confused me at first such as the draft pick.

A

nd I did acknowledge that Billy was unlikely to be a PR but there was still a small chance that he could've gotten one.

C

alling attention to my partner's potential role like that is something I would never do as scum.

[AaronFrost]

I'm the universal backup turned town cop. Unfortunately I investigated Xayah last night and well.

[AaronFrost]

In hindsight I probably should've seen the vig kill on Xayah coming.

[AaronFrost]

Aaron Fucking Frost's one and only horribly played scum game

[AaronFrost]

I don't wanna be the guy who uses self-meta as a defense, but in that game I was much more reserved and hesitant to push anyone so make of it what you will.

[AaronFrost]

I don't wanna be the guy who uses self-meta as a defense, but in that game I was much more reserved and hesitant to push anyone so make of it what you will.

One game does not a meta make.

Yeah I know that's why I don't like using meta as a defense and truthfully if I were to roll scum in a game again there are a lot of things I'd do differently.

[AaronFrost]

I'm also inclined to believe Wooperst's claim so I can add him to the town pile.

[AaronFrost]

I was also softing back on D1 when I said that 'it's not a big deal if we lynch a TPR.'

[AaronFrost]

Universal Backup/Rolecop was my first choice. Doctor/Roleblocker was my second choice.

I won UB/Rolecop and obviously chose the UB.

[AaronFrost]

It didn't?

[AaronFrost]

I'm simultaneously working on college work and playing mafia so I'm not always looking in the thread lol.

[AaronFrost]

Ask away I'll check in every few minutes or so

[AaronFrost]

I picked whatever I thought would be most helpful to town/didn't want scum to have. UB is a good town utility which is why I wanted to try for that first.

[AaronFrost]

Thought those roles were likely to have been taken by players above me. Plus if scum went for players who were high up on the draft list to try and get rid of strong TPRs, then I can take that role on.

[AaronFrost]

Doc/roleblocker should claim at the very least and out their target.

[AaronFrost]

So what you're saying is Kerset should be scum fmpov?

Two ducks and a Hollow Knight

[AaronFrost]

I'm def not clear by any means.

[AaronFrost]

Do you think those statements inherently come from scum though? Like anyone here can see from my join date that I'm not that experienced of a player so I fail to see what makes you think I'm 'pretending' to be inexperienced or playing it up. It feels like an baseless accusation to shade me just for the purpose of shading me. I tend to be self-deprecating in my real life and I think part of that kind of comes out naturally on here.

Also these accusations are literally about my own meta so...

[AaronFrost]

Also why is Sirfetchd top town?

[AaronFrost]

If he proves that he is playing poorly then town will assume that his previous actions were caused by his skill level rather then scum alignment.

So do you think my actions are indicative of inexperienced town or inexperienced scum?

[AaronFrost]

@aaron you are lovely, don't doubt that.
experience fills many holes - having the willingness to learn is overpowered in any hobby, forum mafia is no exception

tho your join date is like 3 months before mine :'<

Yeah but you're an alt Mr. Ducky