Really? I've only ever been lynched once, in like 8 games since returning! My weakness these days is definitely crap reads hahaIn post 1711, Aloratom wrote:Formerfish can come across as scummy pretty easily as can battle mage so that's not a bad fit.
Blair is town too - sweet.In post 1718, Battle Mage wrote:I've read a couple of pages from early in the game so far. Initial thoughts are:
Aloratom is town (thank goodness)
Gibus is scum (oh dear)
Actually Blair could be scum.In post 1720, Battle Mage wrote:Blair is town too - sweet.In post 1718, Battle Mage wrote:I've read a couple of pages from early in the game so far. Initial thoughts are:
Aloratom is town (thank goodness)
Gibus is scum (oh dear)
Mod has ruled with an iron fist - you love to see it!
all new troops? that's pretty much everyone then!In post 1725, Dunnstral wrote:I just read pages 45-50; I suggest all new troops take a look at those pages as well
Does this mean we win?In post 1729, Dunnstral wrote:In post 212, Formerfish wrote:Replacement is a good suspect due to the whole issue of newbies replacing out of scum rolls in their first games.In post 0, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:
I've won 100% of my replace-in games dude, so if you're town, it's a cert (although it may be in spite of me, rather than because of me...)!In post 1733, BBmolla wrote:Ayy lmao poor gibus he’s the only one left
Hey BM please be on my team and let’s win this one
Hi Blair! You're from Hertfordshire? I used to live there! small world...In post 1723, Blair wrote:I can't very reasonably defend my predecessor's actions (as I cannot explain them any better than anyone else), nor can I objectively survey them (I know he was town), so I'll just provide the post Battle Mage is referring to for everyone's ease of reference:
Spoiler:
It seems fairly evident to me that Freddie was a flustered newbie who didn't understand when or if he should claim. He also received contradictory advice when he asked, with one person telling him not to claim at all, and another telling him to claim but not to specify his exact role if he is a PR.
With the benefit of experience and competency, I can infer that the latter advice was meant to be for *if* Freddie chose to claim, and was not expressly commanding him to do so, but I doubt a flustered newbie would be able to confidently discern the difference.
Battle Mage, can you explain exactly what you believe Freddie's thought process was with regards to the alleged "slip" in the his claim?
I agree somewhat with this. The Lillith argument was not strong - in fact, if she's right about the sequence of events, it seems like a baffling thing for newbscum Freddie to be doing - way too conspicuous. I'll need to read back to check if she was right.In post 1732, Blair wrote:My final word on the claim topic (again, I can't really explain my predecessor's posts - which makes it a convenient avenue, by the way) is this:
The whole case against it boils down to, "No way Freddie was THAT much of a newb." To which I submit: This is Freddie's second game, and first time claiming. He subbed into his first game and it ended with him sitting on 30~ posts and not voting in LyLo.
This was Freddie's first time claiming. If he were scum, wouldn't his questions about it, which he asked on the thread, have been asked in the Scum PT?
It's also mildly scummy that Lilith acknowledged Votsto's answer ("You don't need to claim") because it bolstered her case but didn't acknowledge Formerfish's answer ("Claim but just say PR if you're a PR") - even though that is evidently the post Freddie responded to when he claimed.
"This is so obviously scummy that the only explanation can be that he did it for towncred," is a tad dramatic, when, "He evidently WAS that much of a newb," seems the likelier answer.
I should conclude my reread tonight.
Which is a similar level of slip as he has here. pfft, only cause I said so.In post 1745, Nauci wrote:How did you know?In post 1714, Aloratom wrote:Hey BM. Yeah, well at least it's not AI. Once I get around to reading fish's iso, we'll see. I'm sure it's going to be "you think I'm mad... You haven't seen me mad. I've been a nice little boy so far."
P.S. your slot is locktown
I miss Freddie already. We need to find him and join his game.In post 1756, BBmolla wrote:Freddie's claim LMFAO
I don't think you can argue it was an excellent post as the logic wasn't good, but high effort is a very valid point. Definitely could be from town I suppose!In post 1755, Nauci wrote:I thought the post was excellent but I also thought it was largely NAI because it's a very high effort IIOA summary of eventsIn post 1730, Dunnstral wrote:I think these posts are awesome so I'm calling attention to them
theres 1 scum in Nauci-Gibus. I'm not too sure which - who do you like and I'll go with ya?In post 1766, BBmolla wrote:this game got heated
okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other
yeah he was a bit of a newb but he obviously picked some stuff upIn post 1767, Nauci wrote:How does this comport with Freddie's post saying they thought that scum didn't know who town was, and like, needed to figure out town before PR could protect them?In post 1740, Battle Mage wrote:he obviously isn't a complete newb though, he drops some lingo in there at the time on occasion.
Day 1 wagon bound to have 1 scum on it I reckon, those are the only 2 on there who aren't obvtown to me anyway.In post 1770, Tuxedo Mask wrote:Why do you say that? I've had gut pings on Gibus, but feathers seemed pretty obv town.In post 1768, Battle Mage wrote:theres 1 scum in Nauci-Gibus. I'm not too sure which - who do you like and I'll go with ya?In post 1766, BBmolla wrote:this game got heated
okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other
you think no scum on the Day 1 mislynch? unlikely!In post 1772, BBmolla wrote:they're both town thoughIn post 1768, Battle Mage wrote:theres 1 scum in Nauci-Gibus. I'm not too sure which - who do you like and I'll go with ya?In post 1766, BBmolla wrote:this game got heated
okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other
why do you say this friendo
this is less a reach, more of a desperate lunge for a reason to vote for me.In post 1774, Nauci wrote:If you've got experience with FF, do you know if, in his scum games, he also stirs up as much activity as he did? My town read of him is heavily based on the fact that even though he was frequently anti town, he stirred up way more activity in this game than was necessary which he wouldn't have reasons to do if he's scum.In post 1745, Nauci wrote:How did you know?In post 1714, Aloratom wrote:Hey BM. Yeah, well at least it's not AI. Once I get around to reading fish's iso, we'll see. I'm sure it's going to be "you think I'm mad... You haven't seen me mad. I've been a nice little boy so far."
P.S. your slot is locktown
wagons for now!In post 1769, Nauci wrote:Is this based on posts as well or just wagon analysis?In post 1742, Battle Mage wrote:ah Votato is Alora-town.
So let's lynch Nauci or Gibus. I'm backing Gibus!
VOTE: gibus
yeah scum tend not to get too heated - I like your reasoning hereIn post 1778, Tuxedo Mask wrote:I mean if you wanna really put on a tinfoil hat, last game Elmo modded that I replaced into, Newbie 1996. It had a similar thing where lots of player tension resulted in most of the players replacing out. All except three, two of which were the scum team.In post 1773, Battle Mage wrote:Day 1 wagon bound to have 1 scum on it I reckon, those are the only 2 on there who aren't obvtown to me anyway.In post 1770, Tuxedo Mask wrote:Why do you say that? I've had gut pings on Gibus, but feathers seemed pretty obv town.In post 1768, Battle Mage wrote:theres 1 scum in Nauci-Gibus. I'm not too sure which - who do you like and I'll go with ya?In post 1766, BBmolla wrote:this game got heated
okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other
Gibus is probably my preferred - only guy who didn't replace out, scum?
The important thing to note is that Elmo is cursed.
In post 1779, Nauci wrote:Why would I not want my reason for giving Formerfish a strong townread up until The Purge confirmed or debunked?In post 1776, Battle Mage wrote:this is less a reach, more of a desperate lunge for a reason to vote for me.In post 1774, Nauci wrote:If you've got experience with FF, do you know if, in his scum games, he also stirs up as much activity as he did? My town read of him is heavily based on the fact that even though he was frequently anti town, he stirred up way more activity in this game than was necessary which he wouldn't have reasons to do if he's scum.In post 1745, Nauci wrote:How did you know?In post 1714, Aloratom wrote:Hey BM. Yeah, well at least it's not AI. Once I get around to reading fish's iso, we'll see. I'm sure it's going to be "you think I'm mad... You haven't seen me mad. I've been a nice little boy so far."
P.S. your slot is locktown
This progression doesn't look great...you went from strong townread, to "can't believe he's not scum" in less than a page? Surprising given you are an experienced player, and FF was quite clearly town, and even your odd meta-angle was "debunked" to use your terms. Again, I think you're stretching hard here, I'll bite.In post 1781, Nauci wrote:Since the events of The Purge, I have a really, really hard time believing that Formerfish genuinely thought that Freddie's claim was faked and that another player (who he suspected was... Literally anybody?) coached them. The way he wanted to string up Freddie and Votato successively and believed in that logic even after votato and Freddie revealed a personal friendship and therefore additional meta-knowledge is just so incomprehensibly stubborn to me. Even Osuka changed their reads after that.
I'm V/LA for the weekend and get prodded at 2am on Monday morning? WTF? Harsh...
Freddie feels like a soft easy mislynch to be pushing, but I think Nauci kinda missed the boat and is now desperately trying to resuscitate some interest in it. Trying to justify as an "informative flip" now to cover her back for when he flips town?In post 1951, Nauci wrote:I mean, at the time of the claim, I didn't know what to make of it other than ??????
But there were SO many posts after that which were just so implausible. Like at some point, the lack of necessity to claim was pointed out to her, yet she kept making posts over and over as if she was imminently dead. I have a harder time buying her explanation about scum not knowing who town are, that she could possibly have THAT incorrect an understanding of the game mechanics, to explain her scummy, LAMIST posts as if she was 100% going to be night killed. Mostly though, I view with just... confusion and disbelief, and not super alignment indicative. It wasn't until Blair's behavior that I truly scumread the slot. I do think that it has a LOT of associatives information that would make it an informative flip.
What about you? Do you agree with your predecessor?
Anyone but you or Nauci?In post 1955, gibus wrote:you're rightIn post 1952, Nauci wrote:Blair (Freddie) (2) - Nauci (feathers), Gibus
Gibus (2) - Tuxedo Mask (copyKat), Blair (Freddiethelady)
Nauci (feathers) (1) - Battle Mage (Formerfish)
Dunnstral (Lilith2013) (1) - BBmolla (Osuka, Ironcat)
BBMolla (Osuka, Ironcat) (1) - Dunnstral (Lilith2013)
Not Voting (1) - Alortom (Votato)
ALORTOM GET IN HERE (and vote blair or dunnstral and townread gibus)
Ok yeah, with impending deadline I'll bite for this. Probably means BBmolla is town too which helps. colour me intrigued!
Don't take it personally though dude - I just think you are probably scum. My reads suck, so we ain't gonna live or die in this game based on what I think. But I have to trust myself!In post 1969, gibus wrote:So that means I may be lynched today just for putting waves at L-3 and going away to RL.
This doesn't sound right.
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
It isn't, but because I like you, I will give you my final word on the importance of punishing scum for lynching town. There is a widespread issue on the site, where generally scum are not held to account for that, and barely anyone puts any stock in who was on the town wagons. Because of this, scum have pretty much a free-fun to be on mislynch wagons. As a result of that general culture where nobody bothers scrutinising wagons, I think there is a higher than average chance that scum are on a mislynch wagon (because why would they not be?). This is enhanced even more so in a game which features as much distraction and arguing as this one has. The fact I'm the only one who even gives a shit about it, suggests that scum definitely would have had confidence they could get away with it (as they do in most games nowadays). Back when I was here 10-12 years ago, you would always always always scrutinise the mislynches on the following day, and so scum were less likely to be on there, and also it made it harder for scum to get town lynched (because they wouldn't want to be on the wagon). It's just a cultural shift. I may be wrong here, but I'm probably right, and overall I'll be right more often than I'm wrong until we eventually get back to a situation where towns are proactive in defending themselves.In post 1967, gibus wrote:Is your vote based purely on the logic that D1 wagon is bound to have 1 scum in it?In post 1964, Battle Mage wrote:Anyone but you or Nauci?In post 1955, gibus wrote:you're rightIn post 1952, Nauci wrote:Blair (Freddie) (2) - Nauci (feathers), Gibus
Gibus (2) - Tuxedo Mask (copyKat), Blair (Freddiethelady)
Nauci (feathers) (1) - Battle Mage (Formerfish)
Dunnstral (Lilith2013) (1) - BBmolla (Osuka, Ironcat)
BBMolla (Osuka, Ironcat) (1) - Dunnstral (Lilith2013)
Not Voting (1) - Alortom (Votato)
ALORTOM GET IN HERE (and vote blair or dunnstral and townread gibus)
VOTE: Gibus
So you're saying Dunnstral didn't want to be lynched, and is therefore scum? come on man, even I'd be voting for BBMola rather than myself!In post 1972, Aloratom wrote:In my skimming catch-up of last night's posts, this one caught my eye. I greatly dislike it. It came after Blair had taken Dunnstral to L-2 and then backed off, so Dunnstral at that point was not only aware that Blair was willing to vote him, he was also aware that I was willing to vote him and that Nauci was willing to vote him. Rather than make an argument or reiterate an argument for voting BBmola/osuka, he just slides in there that this is the osuka slot as if that should be enough to garner votes for BBmola. To me it does something different -- I think he's trying to divert votes away from Dunnstral. If he wanted us to vote for BBmola he would have given reasons therefor.
A post full of wisdom.In post 1979, Tuxedo Mask wrote:Well, I didn't like how you started day 1, and my town read of you at the end of day 1 was me also saying that the improvement in your play felt weird. As for day 2, I feel more and more with the emotions and hurt feelings from Fish, Votato, and Freddie that it was TvTvT (Osuka's contributions and emotions still feel inauthentic though) and I feel suspicious of the players who sat back while that situation grew out of control. Since that whole thing is very advantageous to scum. Also, you and Nacui flailing over the last pages didn't look great.In post 1905, gibus wrote:@Tuxedo
If I'm not wrong, you said I had a scummy start but pinged town as the game progressed.
Where is the scumread coming from?
So I feel good about this vote.
Also, Dunnstral pointing out the Osuka slot seemed pretty clearly in response to me saying they'd be my top pick. So I town read that, and have a weird ping against those who FOS'd it. But yeah, Dunnstral you should join the Gibus wagon instead.
I still love you...In post 1981, Tuxedo Mask wrote:I'm already in Blair's deep pockets with Nauci, I'm sorry.In post 1980, Battle Mage wrote:A post full of wisdom.
how about a deal that if Gibus flips town, we'll do one of those tomorrow?In post 1984, BBmolla wrote:Dude honestly it's probably just Dunnstral/Tuxedo, Tuxedo's posts are nonsense
I'm always confident, seldom right.In post 1986, BBmolla wrote:You're that confident my dude
VOTE: TuxedoIn post 1984, BBmolla wrote:Dude honestly it's probably just Dunnstral/Tuxedo, Tuxedo's posts are nonsense
slight change, we're gonna go:In post 2019, Battle Mage wrote:I will suggest the following claim order:
Tuxedo mask
Dunnstral
Nausi
Blair
Aloratom
Battle Mage
Ah no I just forgot Freddie had claimed. Although you shouldn't have said that - she might have claimed something different!In post 2032, Nauci wrote:BM are you asking blair to claim because you're disregarding Freddie's claim? If so, why?
This is pretty weak. "I'll do whatever town decides is best", in a game where you'd assume 2/5 other players would be scum, sounds a bit more like "I'll claim first if you absolutely force me to".In post 2041, Tuxedo Mask wrote:I'll do whatever town decides is best. Nauci you should unvote. You might be right but it's an unnecessary risk in Lylo. I don't think I trust BM's push.
if he's town, 40% of the other players are scum (if my maths is right!). In that scenario, sorry but I don't give a crap about getting a consensus. I just do what I think is the right thing. I'd have been much more sympathetic if he took a braver line of "I will claim but don't want to claim first" or something more open. Instead, creeping into the shadows but not actually challenging anything for himself, not a good look. If town isn't strong in this situation, probably game over.In post 2046, Dunnstral wrote:It looks like they're saying they'll claim if people agree to it - I don't read that as dodging
I'm not committed to lynching you, although you don't get any more cred than I do for scum reading Gibus given he FLIPPED TOWN.In post 2047, Tuxedo Mask wrote:If I'm scum and not taking place in the mass claim discussion, because guess what, I actually don't know the best course of action. Do you think my partner arguing with 4 townies is going to reach make them reach the wrong choice? Really? You think it's better for me as town to just roll over and do what you say because you're threatening me?In post 2042, Battle Mage wrote:This is pretty weak. "I'll do whatever town decides is best", in a game where you'd assume 2/5 other players would be scum, sounds a bit more like "I'll claim first if you absolutely force me to".In post 2041, Tuxedo Mask wrote:I'll do whatever town decides is best. Nauci you should unvote. You might be right but it's an unnecessary risk in Lylo. I don't think I trust BM's push.
You are definitely top of my lynchpile at the moment, but a good claim might spare you.
Not to mention yesterday you though I had good points for scum reading Gibus. Then BB shades me without even explaining why and that's enough to completely flip on me? Yeah, you made an agreement to lynch Dunstral or me if Gibus got lynched, but since I know my alignment I know that agreement is just lining up mislynches.
