Mini Normal 2179 | ENDGAME

[MathBlade]

Hey! Will start catchup during lunch/after work. If I should focus anywhere lemme know.

[MathBlade]

however, Battle Mage can attest, I'm always down for a good mass claim.

haha yes!

I can kick off - I'm a Neighbour (formerly VT) - thanks to our deceased comrade Andres

HA what? this is funny.

Anyone who can counter this should. There are literally no stakes.

I'm townread BM for this, Titus.

Based off this post and who died I am sus of Titus + BM. Andres’s ISO seems to heavily imply they’d neighborize Titus.

Seems like if Titus is scum she liked the gamestate so killed Andres who gave her props and a null kill. The neighbor probably was a coincidence that would happen start of day.

@Titus if you’re town why would Andres neighborize BM instead of you and why are you not analyzing that?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Titus

[MathBlade]

Pretty sure based on this Titus maybe trying to bus Battle Mage here. It’s a gut feeling I will have to see if it matches up with the thread later.

[MathBlade]

Also down to flip BM and if BM is scum elimming Titus.

[MathBlade]

if superbowl, outworld and npom are all town, where the fuck does that leave us? Flavor Leaf and the lurker express?

Or titus. Titus or you + a lurker is where my mind is right now, but I don't think me pushing either of you is happening anytime soon

Titus can you hammer please and just 1v1 BM tomorrow please

Titus BM SB9 change my mind.

[MathBlade]

I feel like BM is bussing SB9 here

Like I said, it's quite possible. Superbowl9 has just been rolling over apathetic today, not telling us who is scum (a policy lynch doesn't count). Given the evidence, I'm ok with nuking Superbowl9. I just feel BM is a better chance of netting scum.

Regardless, we need subs in here.

This feels weird.

Someone tell me why.

[MathBlade]

I kinda want Titus or BM as SB9 I am least sure of.

[MathBlade]

Welcome MathBlade. Fine, if we’re going to discuss this, let’s get off E-1. UNVOTE: (Looking at you, OutWorldER)

So you think Andres was the night kill to lock in his town read of titus? I was thinking it was to make his scum read of sb9 go away.

I could see that too. Partially why I throw SB9 with Titus and BM

Mainly the neighborizer dying and neighborizing BM doesn’t make sense with the ISO and was focusing on NKA as a start.

You can have a townread stuff in my jar for safekeeping.

[MathBlade]

I feel more confident in my reads since no one died last night, but I suppose everyone should feel that way.

what is this supposed to mean?

It's an error. I missed Andres dying.

yes but what would you have meant, if nobody had died?

like what were you getting at, when you claimed not to realise somebody had died

If nobody died, given Ben flipped roleblocker, a doctor would likely be the save. Since scum don't shoot people with bad reads (generally), it makes more sense to double down on reads.

This generally is odd.

Why the qualifier Titus?

[MathBlade]

Well, Titus could have been the kill going into n1. Asking not to be killed creates WIFOM that scum might just take to simplify things. If I had to pick someone for a night action and I wanted them to survive, I might not have gone with Titus. I didn’t think about it too hard because it was out of my hands, but this is another thing that points to sb9 as scum.

Imho no. If I was scum, I never kill someone who expresses a fear of dying. That’s a newb level play for many reasons. The andres kill means someone experienced did it.

[MathBlade]

Lmao there’s more than that.

1) Town with bad reads gets killed because it reinforces bad reads. It forces those with good reads to go “WTF why am I not dead?”
2) Null kill because they like the gamestate
3) Thought they were a PR

Any of those are possible here. Why are you so bad? In prior games you’ve done 1 and 2 before.

[MathBlade]

I've done a lot before. In practice, people rarely care about dead players reads. Anything is possible. I'm sure if things were brainstormed, we could come up with more reasons why scum may kill town with bad reads.

They generally don't, which is a point against superbowl. It would be much stronger if they didn't pass through obvtown to do it.

Who do you define as “obvTown”?

[MathBlade]

however, Battle Mage can attest, I'm always down for a good mass claim.

haha yes!

I can kick off - I'm a Neighbour (formerly VT) - thanks to our deceased comrade Andres

HA what? this is funny.

Anyone who can counter this should. There are literally no stakes.

I'm townread BM for this, Titus.

Based off this post and who died I am sus of Titus + BM. Andres’s ISO seems to heavily imply they’d neighborize Titus.

Seems like if Titus is scum she liked the gamestate so killed Andres who gave her props and a null kill. The neighbor probably was a coincidence that would happen start of day.

@Titus if you’re town why would Andres neighborize BM instead of you and why are you not analyzing that?

And why didn’t you address this?

[MathBlade]

Cool you’re EoD reads are garbage.

75% sure at least two reads are wrong. Which reads changed in response to the kill?

[MathBlade]

I've done a lot before. In practice, people rarely care about dead players reads. Anything is possible. I'm sure if things were brainstormed, we could come up with more reasons why scum may kill town with bad reads.

They generally don't, which is a point against superbowl. It would be much stronger if they didn't pass through obvtown to do it.

Who do you define as “obvTown”?

My EoD 1 reads

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12359200

Going down to Andres was just weird.

My BM read plummeted and my SB read has somewhat improved to would execute but not really SRing him.

I have Flavor as obvtown now too

So you have 0 scumreads then?

So your read wall is useless in case you flip. Because if you were obeying it you’d be on me or ranny and not BM. Again what changed in your reads?

Where’s your train?

[MathBlade]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

And you didn’t out this immediately with all his thoughts because .....?

Speaking of which do that now.

[MathBlade]

I don’t know the neighbor mechanic. Can’t scum be a neighbor?

They can. It all depends on who the original person targets.

The BM choice is odd and maybe being able to see all of Andres’s thoughts not just selected ones can piece it together.

VOTE: Battle Mage

I will tunnel you to death if you don’t explain.

[MathBlade]

Don’t get me wrong I still think Titus is scum but on the off chance she’s town she’s been pushing BM as a distance push and doing so very badly.

[MathBlade]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

Aha but it isn’t an unfair question.

Andres divulged reads to BM with his own words.

So asking for said reads is not an unfair question.

With those why BM should be apparent.

[MathBlade]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

And you didn’t out this immediately with all his thoughts because .....?

Speaking of which do that now.

Wrong neighbor variant.

Pretty sure it’s not.

Andres and most neighborizers leave end of day reads in their PT as BM alluded to.

[MathBlade]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

Aha but it isn’t an unfair question.

Andres divulged reads to BM with his own words.

So asking for said reads is not an unfair question.

With those why BM should be apparent.

BM is being a smartass there.

There's no possible way Andres divulged anything. Andres would be dead before any PT with BM opened.

Nope. Hood existed based on TGP’s flip post and says add to.

And why are you defending your scumread? If I am wrong and BM is joking can’t he say so?

[MathBlade]

You are a 2-Shot Neighborizer, and aligned with the Town. You may post in the thread and vote as you see fit.
Abilities:
~ Twice during the game, at Night, you may neighborize a player by sending a PM to the moderator. If your action succeeds, regardless of whether you live or die, that player will be added to your Neighborhood at the start of the next Day.

Hood existed people get added.

I expect BM with Andres’s last reads.

[MathBlade]

Quoted relevant parts for you.

Now since BM said Andres left a read, odds are he left more than one.

That post didn’t read like a joke and there’s zero risk to outing a dead townies reads.

[MathBlade]

You are a 2-Shot Neighborizer, and aligned with the Town. You may post in the thread and vote as you see fit.
Abilities:
~ Twice during the game, at Night, you may neighborize a player by sending a PM to the moderator. If your action succeeds, regardless of whether you live or die, that player will be added to your Neighborhood at the start of the next Day.

Hood existed people get added.

I expect BM with Andres’s last reads.

I'll let this play out. I have my own opinions but it's not worth getting in the way here since I misunderstood partially. I still think you're going off an assumption and should look for more persuasive methods.

Even if you're assumption is wrong, BM claiming to be the target is just noise without data.

What assumption am I going off of?

BM claimed something, I am verifying the claim. What “assumption” is there since no one counter claimed? If someone did BM would be lock scum.

[MathBlade]

That’s a lot of words for I am not sharing Andres’s reads.

[MathBlade]

That’s a lot of words for I am not sharing Andres’s reads.

???

i already did, what are you talking about?

Link them then. I skimmed could have missed it.

Where is Andres says
X is town Y is scum go vote Y.

[MathBlade]

Yup.

What do you make of BM Super Bowl?

[MathBlade]

Also are we gonna hammer me or not because im kinda done with the E-1 edging

pedit: havent tried reading alignment but hes been useful

I’m still getting my feet wet. Why are you so eager to die?

[MathBlade]

The possible assumption has just been deemed impossible. Namely that Andres could not have posted in the hood because it was created after his death, but it was still made because of the text of the role. Thus negating any reads BM would be able to share.

Here, BM has admitted Andres got at least one post off.

He did that before.

And man I wish I could see that hood because that seems like a load of malarkey.

[MathBlade]

however, Battle Mage can attest, I'm always down for a good mass claim.

haha yes!

I can kick off - I'm a Neighbour (formerly VT) - thanks to our deceased comrade Andres

HA what? this is funny.

Anyone who can counter this should. There are literally no stakes.

I'm townread BM for this, Titus.

Based off this post and who died I am sus of Titus + BM. Andres’s ISO seems to heavily imply they’d neighborize Titus.

@Titus if you’re town why would Andres neighborize BM instead of you and why are you not analyzing that?

you realise Andres is dead and flipped town right? i have no idea what the analysis you propose, would achieve.

Yes I do. Conf town reads give a place of focus and how you explain gives a read on you win win.

[MathBlade]

Here's my alternative proposition to yeeting me: we put our finger guns down towards others who are at least usefully contributing and get the quickhammerer out, then solve tomorrow because I think me/BM/titus/Math/FL are good enough to figure something out

the arrival of Math gave me some momentary confidence

Alas that’s like almost my entire scum pool from my skim.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Ranny

BM can live today for passing a humor check. Game needs levity and activity.

Not happening.

We are sorting BM.

You never intended to elim him is my hunch.

Only question is if you’re trying to appear dumb because reasons and want SB9 or you’re scum with BM.

[MathBlade]

Explain ranny to me

His opening was god awful.

So? That’s day one.

As a southerner you know sometimes really good town suck at RVS. It’s partially why I like replacing in more than start of games. Just gotta chug the good drink.

[MathBlade]

My townread on Alch is also fading, but that could be turkey coma.

Why are you so desperate to not elim SB9 or BM?

Both are fine elim candidates.

[MathBlade]

I do not have a high tolerance for toxicity. This is a game, so treat it as such. Personal attacks are not tolerated and will earn you consequences.

--Please keep this in mind.

BM is being a smartass

Wait? Was I warned for saying smartass?

Gaming the mod is useless. Stop it you know better.

[MathBlade]

My townread on Alch is also fading, but that could be turkey coma.

Why are you so desperate to not elim SB9 or BM?

Both are fine elim candidates.

I already explained them. Like within the past 10 minutes.

You did a poor job as my question indicates.

Humor does not make someone town or scum.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Ranny

BM can live today for passing a humor check. Game needs levity and activity.

Not happening.

We are sorting BM.

You never intended to elim him is my hunch.

Only question is if you’re trying to appear dumb because reasons and want SB9 or you’re scum with BM.

you could sort me by reading my posts rather than elimming me though?

I did skim them.

I was not impressed.

I asked questions that should have been addressed earlier, I was not impressed.

I will be doing a read over lunch but I am very capable of noticing glaring unaddressed errors and pushing.

[MathBlade]

BM, do you think Math has a funny bone or did it get lost in the Pi?

My funny bone got caught in the jar that is my body I keep all my bones in.

It’s think and sturdy and built for a Kodak moment.

FoS Titus.

[MathBlade]

I think Ranny v Superbowl might be S v T or T v S.

I got fruit.

VOTE: Superbowl

Him, Nom, or Ranny are who I want to execute. Superbowl9 pushing for a policy lynch before we knew Ben's alignment was really bad.

I can’t explain it but Titus getting a fruit/claiming to get a fruit then follow up posts makes her more likely to be scum.

#hunch

[MathBlade]

I'll claim because I'm not going to make much of an effort to shake the wagon off, I'm FV (gave to titus). I'm fine if you want to hammer as well, already pretty much said everything I wanted to about the game

Titus SB9 BM.

I am back to being okay with SB9 since SB9 claimed it.

This reeks of Titus gambit:

When Titus et all probably kill me you’ll know why.

VOTE: SuperBowl9

[MathBlade]

Down to the negative utility claim.

This had about 3 usages when I posted it earlier, and they'll come out sometime this game probably, but they're not actively that important. Just a way for me to get a read on some people.

Btw if I am right you should claim your neg utility now.

Just in case I am wrong on one of those three.

[MathBlade]

it's kind of a "look at what I'm doing not what I'm saying"

because I actively said I wasn't going to play, so that's the buzz line, right?

But look, I'm actively playing.

I do stuff like that for baiting purposes. I just like chaos.

I'm the definition of Chaotic Neutral.

Ascetic SK Serial Killer it Survivor here folks probably.

There’s fishiness here.

[MathBlade]

What can I say? I may be dead right or dead wrong but I can make things fun

[MathBlade]

I've done a lot before. In practice, people rarely care about dead players reads. Anything is possible. I'm sure if things were brainstormed, we could come up with more reasons why scum may kill town with bad reads.

They generally don't, which is a point against superbowl. It would be much stronger if they didn't pass through obvtown to do it.

Who do you define as “obvTown”?

My EoD 1 reads

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12359200

Going down to Andres was just weird.

My BM read plummeted and my SB read has somewhat improved to would execute but not really SRing him.

I have Flavor as obvtown now too

So you have 0 scumreads then?

So your read wall is useless in case you flip. Because if you were obeying it you’d be on me or ranny and not BM. Again what changed in your reads?

Where’s your train?

What did this have to do with the quote you responded to?

Also, damn, so many pages to catch up on haha

Titus has very few scum possibilities. Removing you meant she had very few to no viable scumreads (sure she had some but they aren’t mislimable). She had me and Ran left iirc and neither would happen thus reducing it to zero making her reads useless.

[MathBlade]

You’re quoting a lot of my sarcastic posts that got taken more seriously than I expected them to, but energy stopped me from shutting the after effects down.

Then you don’t have a problem outing your neg util yeah?

[MathBlade]

Down to the negative utility claim.

This had about 3 usages when I posted it earlier, and they'll come out sometime this game probably, but they're not actively that important. Just a way for me to get a read on some people.

Btw if I am right you should claim your neg utility now.

Just in case I am wrong on one of those three.

Are you talking about the SK?

Yes, you are right. I’m a survivor. (This is not normal, please note my sarcasm). I feel like I should start putting a * in my sarcastic posts.

Haven’t kept up with normal guidelines for a while.

I just assume all is possible.

You’re still not convincing me you’re not 3P.

[MathBlade]

I actually feel worse about NPOM due to the fact that he's just kind of ignoring me and the main topic of discussion to push FL. Gives me bad vibes

Napalm is ignoring an easy place to park their vote and instead going after one of the more visibly vocal and powerful players in this game and you think that's scum motivated? Unless he's dead confident (or partners with someone already voting you) i think napalm is town here

my objection is more to the fact that he ignored it almost completely (until it came time to try and discredit me) rather than the fact that he didn't vote me.

Sell me on your NPOM TR because he's my top SR right now and I just genuinely cannot understand why anybody would think that slot is town.

Permission to Garcia? Or do you want this from Johnny. I do townread NPOM.

[MathBlade]

NPOM’s stock has significantly rose with the replacements.

That’s probably scum indicative, but I don’t know if I think Math and Johnny are both scum here.

That seems way too bold. I wouldn’t have even made that play.

I am bold as any alignment to be fair.

I also assure you that I will not be miselimed. Read the cockiness as scum if you want but it’s not happening.

I am bold for a reason. There’s one part I am missing that I wanna piece together but if I am wrong on it it’s really neg EV.

[MathBlade]

NPOM’s stock has significantly rose with the replacements.

That’s probably scum indicative, but I don’t know if I think Math and Johnny are both scum here.

That seems way too bold. I wouldn’t have even made that play.

I am bold as any alignment to be fair.

I also assure you that I will not be miselimed. Read the cockiness as scum if you want but it’s not happening.

I am bold for a reason. There’s one part I am missing that I wanna piece together but if I am wrong on it it’s really neg EV.

I agree, you are bold, but would your teammates follow you, or is this just bold town. I might be leaning the ladder with you.

The latter is indeed correct sir. I don’t think you’re group scum but imho because reasons this setup demands an SK if I am right on redacted.

[MathBlade]

NPOM’s stock has significantly rose with the replacements.

That’s probably scum indicative, but I don’t know if I think Math and Johnny are both scum here.

That seems way too bold. I wouldn’t have even made that play.

I am bold as any alignment to be fair.

I also assure you that I will not be miselimed. Read the cockiness as scum if you want but it’s not happening.

I am bold for a reason. There’s one part I am missing that I wanna piece together but if I am wrong on it it’s really neg EV.

I agree, you are bold, but would your teammates follow you, or is this just bold town. I might be leaning the ladder with you.

The latter is indeed correct sir. I don’t think you’re group scum but imho because reasons this setup demands an SK if I am right on redacted.

Excuse me. Regardless of your alignment, MBOS called.

Excuse me. Regardless of your alignment, your weakness called.

[MathBlade]

The latter is indeed correct sir. I don’t think you’re group scum but imho because reasons this setup demands an SK if I am right on redacted.

I literally don't understand this post or Titus' reaction

Flavor Leaf says I could be scum or town. I said I am the latter which is town.

[MathBlade]

Titus’s reaction is trying to remind me I sometimes suck at setup spec which while admittedly true I am in a spot she is not in.

[MathBlade]

I don’t think that’s the part they were talking aout

Funny that.

I wanna see where that goes.

Titus got awful quiet all a sudden. Let’s see what she does here. That will be really telling actually.

[MathBlade]

So...like, I’ve heard that said a few times, and it’s gonna incriminate me so hard, but I feel like I gotta bring it up.

Andres is one of the stronger players in this game. He can even probably take me down in a 1v1.

I just won a scum game against him where he was the biggest threat against me, and he’s played on other sites, like Mafia451. I played a game over him there, as scum, in a giant game, and i don’t remember him there much, but he’s not a lesser experienced player.

And now BM doesn’t mention much in reads except a weird as fuck unlikely team? I find that odd. And it shoulda been from the word go “dead guy’s reads”.

[MathBlade]

it feels like Mathblade is really flailing aimlessly here, randomly trying to throw shade

Lmao.

What exactly is flail? I have a scum team and who it is and why. And a prevailing theory.

Again you’re not reading my posts closely if you think I am being miselimmed.

Very carefully. Because this Southern jar is so sturdy it won’t crack.

Gut says you don’t like my solve and it goes against your plan of redacted.

[MathBlade]

Alas now you’re probably scum. You coulda just townread me

But your crumbs don’t fit with my role very well.

That’s too much PR isn’t it?

[MathBlade]

Sell me on your NPOM TR

Like do you think he's posting with an agenda? I don't see it at all. Not making much sense isn't really a crime

His votes constantly seem very opportunistic? The few times he wasn't moving to big wagons, he was putting votes on slots that were somewhat contentious. Every time a wagon gained any sort of traction, he moved there, with very weak reasoning.

It feels exactly like newbscum wanting to coast by.

@MathBlade, I'll also accept you talking to me about NPOM.

Alas now you’re probably scum. You coulda just townread me

But your crumbs don’t fit with my role very well.

That’s too much PR isn’t it?

I haven't been baking.

Bullshit. And SB would be too much town power too.

I am pretty sus of almost any PR left.

Yeah my sus is scummy whatcha gonna do about it.

[MathBlade]

Out of world short version is there’s an underlying gambit here I am trying to expose but not sure how.

[MathBlade]

If I were gambited, I’d be conf town by now and y’all would be questioning it, but still likely not do much about it until a few days.

You’re not involved in the gambit

[MathBlade]

yeah i support massclaim

Bet you do.

Not happening.

[MathBlade]

We’re elimming SB then tomorrow if y’all wanna claim that’s fine.

But there’s no reason to mass claim when it won’t change the elim

[MathBlade]

If I were gambited, I’d be conf town by now and y’all would be questioning it, but still likely not do much about it until a few days.

You’re not involved in the gambit

I'm not either. No big plans. So if you see a gambit from me, you can ruin it.

Okay then
Scum SB visits Titus to give her fruit to either legitimize SB or Titus or both
Titus’s reaction expecting two kills instead of one means SK and scum probably have a doc to prevent SK or vig kill
Titus doesn’t want SB or BM elimmed but wants to look weak and hopeless and no one listens to me and coast to end game.

Titus has been trying to hint doc/rb for a while

[MathBlade]

If I were gambited, I’d be conf town by now and y’all would be questioning it, but still likely not do much about it until a few days.

You’re not involved in the gambit

I'm not either. No big plans. So if you see a gambit from me, you can ruin it.

Okay then
Scum SB visits Titus to give her fruit to either legitimize SB or Titus or both
Titus’s reaction expecting two kills instead of one means SK and scum probably have a doc to prevent SK or vig kill
Titus doesn’t want SB or BM elimmed but wants to look weak and hopeless and no one listens to me and coast to end game.

Titus has been trying to hint doc/rb for a while

dude, if you're going to basically drop loaves that you and Titus are both PRs, are we losing anything by pinning everyone down to a claim?

Titus already outed I am a PR anyway. The risk was null. Much more important we elim SB and probably BM. I die 1-2 scum gone #worth

[MathBlade]

If I were gambited, I’d be conf town by now and y’all would be questioning it, but still likely not do much about it until a few days.

You’re not involved in the gambit

I'm not either. No big plans. So if you see a gambit from me, you can ruin it.

Okay then
Scum SB visits Titus to give her fruit to either legitimize SB or Titus or both
Titus’s reaction expecting two kills instead of one means SK and scum probably have a doc to prevent SK or vig kill
Titus doesn’t want SB or BM elimmed but wants to look weak and hopeless and no one listens to me and coast to end game.

Titus has been trying to hint doc/rb for a while

dude, if you're going to basically drop loaves that you and Titus are both PRs, are we losing anything by pinning everyone down to a claim?

I think Titus was setting up to claim a PR later. She didn’t expect redacted

[MathBlade]

Math, are you a Mason?

Like the Southern Jar.

Told you I am not getting mis elimmed.

No room for any more PRs.

Also told you I am dying tonight.

[MathBlade]

I have my own theory.

Go for it

[MathBlade]

Masons AND Neighbors?

Yup whatcha gonna do about it.

[MathBlade]

If I were gambited, I’d be conf town by now and y’all would be questioning it, but still likely not do much about it until a few days.

You’re not involved in the gambit

I'm not either. No big plans. So if you see a gambit from me, you can ruin it.

Okay then
Scum SB visits Titus to give her fruit to either legitimize SB or Titus or both
Titus’s reaction expecting two kills instead of one means SK and scum probably have a doc to prevent SK or vig kill
Titus doesn’t want SB or BM elimmed but wants to look weak and hopeless and no one listens to me and coast to end game.

Titus has been trying to hint doc/rb for a while

dude, if you're going to basically drop loaves that you and Titus are both PRs, are we losing anything by pinning everyone down to a claim?

Titus already outed I am a PR anyway. The risk was null. Much more important we elim SB and probably BM. I die 1-2 scum gone #worth

why did you let Titus out you as a PR? I don't get it man.

1) I don’t control her
2) Good luck with getting Titus to be quiet

[MathBlade]

I had a feeling that there might have been a Scum Mason Claim gambit going on with NPOM, Johnny, or Math.

Math might have confirmed it.

You said you are bold, correct?

So pushing Titus for pulling a gambit to tie her and Superbowl together and going for a Mason claim setup gambit is the type of thing you might do as scum, right?

Titus’s reaction expecting two kills instead of one means SK and scum probably have a doc to prevent SK or vig kill

Whoa wait what? When did Titus say that?

I thought mini normal games are never multiball. There can’t be an SK.

Normal games can have an SK unless the rules changed.

[MathBlade]

I had a feeling that there might have been a Scum Mason Claim gambit going on with NPOM, Johnny, or Math.

Math might have confirmed it.

You said you are bold, correct?

So pushing Titus for pulling a gambit to tie her and Superbowl together and going for a Mason claim setup gambit is the type of thing you might do as scum, right?

And no. Fake claiming masons would not be something done in this scenario, I have done wild claims but they’ve been to the wire and are sold and you want them. I am a good scum and generally never have to fake claim if scum. If I do I did something wrong.

In this case you’ll notice post one of mine >> mason hint

[MathBlade]

The wiki says normal games with 13 players have exactly 1 non-town faction.

Whelp rules changed then Titus can be town

[MathBlade]

NPOM-Johnny-Math.

Occam’s razor worked in Xenoblade, I’m on a roll as town. I’ll reevaluate if I think I am wrong.

Occam’s razor says I am town dude

Why you pushing this so hard?

[MathBlade]

I don’t think they are a mason, Titus. I feel like they’re setting you up.

Still, even if they are, you don't push an outed mason. It's a claim that has to be vouched for by scum at some point or he dies during massclaim. Let him push me if he wants.

Not particularly.

SB is perma scum to me and likely BM.

Just was wrong on you Titus due to changed normal rules

[MathBlade]

I think i have too many townreads for math's mason claim to make sense

Scum say what?

I don’t care about your reads I know I and X are town per the mod.

You’re scum. FV + Neighborizer + Roleblocker doesn’t all make sense

Too much town power

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Superbowl9

Thumbs up.

And do it. I dare you.

I die or my partner dies. Me or partner becomes conf town

[MathBlade]

I think i have too many townreads for math's mason claim to make sense

Scum say what?

I don’t care about your reads I know I and X are town per the mod.

You’re scum. FV + Neighborizer + Roleblocker doesn’t all make sense

Too much town power

This is a scum slip.

I’ll wait til someone sees it.

I left off masons because I don’t include myself

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Superbowl9

Thumbs up.

And do it. I dare you.

I die or my partner dies. Me or partner becomes conf town

if you die tonight, i dont think your claim achieves anything really.

It does.

It confirms my partner who I have crumbed.

[MathBlade]

Math just TMI’d the fruit vendor was town.

Nice try.

Gotta give you credit

Gotta focus on work but I and X are masons

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Superbowl9

Thumbs up.

And do it. I dare you.

I die or my partner dies. Me or partner becomes conf town

if you die tonight, i dont think your claim achieves anything really.

It does.

It confirms my partner who I have crumbed.

heh...i got it.

your crumbing is...eh

Then why are you voting me and not SB?

[MathBlade]

Fruit Vendor can just be a fruit vendor. Why are you assuming there’s more power to it? That’s possibly insanely low power. Neighborizer is also really not much town power, and can effectively cause town to lose because of a sneaky pocket possibility.

I am assuming fruit vendor is scum to try to get itself townread easily.

It is a connector and can find hoods.

The claim if it hits me or the other hood gets confirmed

The FV is meant to go deep

[MathBlade]

Welcome MathBlade. Fine, if we’re going to discuss this, let’s get off E-1. UNVOTE: (Looking at you, OutWorldER)

So you think Andres was the night kill to lock in his town read of titus? I was thinking it was to make his scum read of sb9 go away.

I could see that too. Partially why I throw SB9 with Titus and BM

Mainly the neighborizer dying and neighborizing BM doesn’t make sense with the ISO and was focusing on NKA as a start.

You can have a townread stuff in my jar for safekeeping.

Don’t know what nuclear means but here’s my first crumb.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE:

yeah ok fuck it, i buy the mason claim.

I’m a mason.

No you aren’t.

I am a mason.

Two pairs of masons and neighborizer is wtf worthy.

[MathBlade]

It’s mod-confirmed that town has RB and neighborizer. Given that town has masons, that leaves scum with ??? to balance it out? What, if not fruit vendor? I can think of a bunch of roles that don’t make sense in this setup. Cop, bulletproof...

TMI on masons?

i dont really see why you bother claiming PR and saying "I crumbed my partner in a really obv way". like, you may as well just claim them at that point but w/e!

No clue what you're talking about, I'd trust MathBlade with the nuclear launch codes. He's never revealed a secret in his life

TMI in a good way

Sorry. FL goin down.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: NPOM

What I needed to hear.

Nope SB today.

[MathBlade]

Gut read #legit FL is scum with SB

[MathBlade]

I’d like Alch to go first.

[MathBlade]

NPOM, Math, Ranny is my solve.

Cool. You’re already wrong by NKA. Why would scum me kill my biggest town vouch?

Pretty sure Ranny and I solved two scum last night together just trying to find the third.

[MathBlade]

NPOM, Math, Ranny is my solve.

Cool. You’re already wrong by NKA. Why would scum me kill my biggest town vouch?

Pretty sure Ranny and I solved two scum last night together just trying to find the third.

Nobody is “wrong by NKA”.

I actually think the NKA incriminates you harder.

I am interested in how you came up with this. And yes, someone can be wrong by NKA.

[MathBlade]

It's not a request I already claimed out will go first

Meh I am okay with outworlder first.

Just with both me and Ranny alive scum are going for a deep game here. Means we likely have a deep wolf or two which is why Johnny died.

[MathBlade]

hessian, NoPowerOverMe, MathBlade, Rannygazoo, Battle Mage

These should be the first to claim.

You mean hessian No Power BM.

I and Ranny are already mason firm.

[MathBlade]

You’re not going to end game, Math

Oh I am aware of that. I am either faded or dead.

Ranny and I disagreed on the third so I wanna see where NPOM takes this.

[MathBlade]

Leaf is scum here.

Johnny kill seals that.
Neo claim may be legit to help scum. It would help balance the setup.

[MathBlade]

The main question is why he didn’t want Outer to claim if he already knew Outer was VT. Him telling outer to claim doesn’t make sense in that case. Town flavor holds here. Besides the fact Neo is waaay too much power.

[MathBlade]

Only thing I can think of is that you and out world are buddies

Not necessarily but it’s highly indicative.

The third scum is a bit of a saucy read which I will leave for Ranny tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

Outer do not claim.

So why this Flavor? Out your checks.

And I am about 90% sure too NPOM.

Can’t hurt to have flavor out checks then we can compare on ISO to see if how/why what he did makes sense or what spew he gives

[MathBlade]

And I am 100% sure leaf is lying

If you’re sure someone is lying get them to talk more.

Would that be too naive of me to think we might get scum spew? Or would that be a more day one type thing? *shrug* sometimes I am weird.

[MathBlade]

Oh no.

Surface level scum is kill me.

I think I know why you killed Johnny but I wanna see your checks and why you did each because you and NPOM and outer are in a three way triangle.

[MathBlade]

I would kill Andres, sure, I wouldn’t kill Johnny here.

Checks Flavor, what night and when and what order

[MathBlade]

Oh no.

Surface level scum is kill me.

I think I know why you killed Johnny but I wanna see your checks and why you did each because you and NPOM and outer are in a three way triangle.

This is exactly why Math is scum.

In a game with Titus and Math alive, if I am scum here, I never risk TownMath doing something that TownTitus could pick up on.

I just don’t.

Except Titus you Outer is quite possibly the game.

Titus in her own words says mason claims solve themselves then immediately opens with pushing me.

She’s either scum or the kill was designed to have her push me.

You Outer Titus.

[MathBlade]

Don't believe a word that comes out of leafs mouth. You can thank me later for catching two scum

So here’s the situation. I believe you.

This means by numbers you know Ranny and I are legit.

Then it’s last scum in the remainder.

OR you’re scum with Flavor and Outer and deep wolfing. (Very doubtful based on your introduction)

I try to listen to the beginning of the game there’s good stuff there

[MathBlade]

I’m not getting elimmed, good luck.

You are getting cocky because we’re the only 3 talking right now.

You probably won’t today. More than likely we elim in NPOM and Outer.

Based on how that flip goes will determine tomorrow.

If we elim Outer and Outer is scum then Flavor is conf scum as neo would also possibly be a mafia hood which FL is smart enough to consider so town Flavor is impossible. This makes me and Ranny conf town and NPOM conf town.

If we elim Outer and Outer is VT then Flavor becomes conf town making me Ranny and Flavor conf town.

This means we have three conf town going into tomorrow and scum have to kill in our mason pairing. This leaves whichever of Flavor or NPOM truth telling alive and we elim the liar tomorrow.

VOTE: Outer

[MathBlade]

@Battle Mage - I am reaching out to you in the hopes that you are town, which I think you are. I am not scum here. Mathblade pushed through a Super Bowl-Titus team gambit, and then you can see in their posts yesterday they realized they’d have to switch to me.

Oh I agree BM is town here too Ranny convinced me overnight.

But we elim guilties then if Outer flips town (doubt it) we have a guilty on NPOM into elo.

Win win

[MathBlade]

@Battle Mage - I am reaching out to you in the hopes that you are town, which I think you are. I am not scum here. Mathblade pushed through a Super Bowl-Titus team gambit, and then you can see in their posts yesterday they realized they’d have to switch to me.

Oh I agree BM is town here too Ranny convinced me overnight.

But we elim guilties then if Outer flips town (doubt it) we have a guilty on NPOM into elo.

Win win

If you’re town, you need to read in between the lines more clearly.

If you’re town this isn’t a time for subtlety here.

NPOM has been deliberate with word choice at the start of the game.

If you think they’re lying explain how.

[MathBlade]

I think you’re wrong here on Outer. Regardless if outer is town then NPOM becomes lock scum and there’s room for elo. The proper play is elim outer here.

Can’t find outer’s VT claim. Help me.

I am actually not. There’s only 1-2 things NPOM can claim or they go back on the sus pile.

[MathBlade]

NPOM has been deliberate with word choice

actually, this is not even a town thing, this is a scum thing, i dont know why you are pushing this as townie.

Oh no NPOM crumbed something specific imho. I want to see if it pans out.

[MathBlade]

NPOM, you up

Vanilla Town

@Math - Prove you aren't scum then. You are actively defending someone incorrectly.

Is this a mistake on your part, yes or no?

UNVOTE:

I am not sure if it’s a mistake. I can see why NPOM lies with their crumb but at the same time want them to claim to see if what I saw matched it.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade slipped when they tried to talk about NPOM crumbing a PR when they already claimed VT.

Mathblade replaced in yesterday and didn't know.

??? What the hell are you talking about? There’s a very specific post I am referring to that occurred pre replace in that makes me think they were a PR.

I have not had the time to go through and find all the claims in the game no.

But as a standard I read the beginning and current on replace in.

[MathBlade]

Like if the team is exactly NPOM, Math, and Ranny, then yeah.

Math and Ranny slots were also both getting pushed by Titus, and ScumMath NEEDS something or Titus will eventually catch them.

NPOM and myself and Ranny lose in this situation. And I definitely don’t have NPOM claim a guilty here
Let’s assume for a moment you’re right and we’re scum with NPOM

Breakdown would result in one of outer or NPOM dying today (which should be the case despite how sure I am you’re scum which I am explaining to Ranny) then if we pick wrong the other dies via NK (we can’t be the NK if scum.

At that point myself and Ranny would be in a double elo. That situation is nigh on impossible. I have done some crazy claims but I don’t ever do a mason fake claim due to the tieins unless there’s a good substantial ability to sell it. If I was scum with Ranny and assume Titus town I bud Ranny to get on Titus good side

You know my scum play is get town to elim themselves.

[MathBlade]

We are elimming in NPOM or Outer.

Hmmm interesting. Gonna want a claim from you then NPOM. You might be scum here.

[MathBlade]

Now here’s the thing.

NPOM needs to claim here to cement the guilty.

One of NPOM or outer are scum. NPOM has declared it a 1v2.

This means much as I would like to sort you that’s not the right thing. The right thing is to use NPOMvOuter to sort you.

NPOM has to claim here. And since NPOM has to have me as confirmed town (even if they are scum) they don’t have any breathing room to not listen here. They therefore know I am conf town. It won’t hurt anything as if NPOM actually has a guilty they go up on threat radar.

One of you or NPOM is indeed scum here. Remember how I said to keep scum talking, doing this if you’re town doesn’t help. NPOM hard claims then we evaluate it.

Elimming either one rashly is incorrect here.

[MathBlade]

We are 100% elimming in NPOM or Outer.

NPOM needs to claim here then can sort things out.

[MathBlade]

Vanilla Town

I think targeting Titus would be a bad choice as town as she would be a likely NK target. This also makes SB9 more likely scum.

I wouldn't be against a BM wagon but I like where I am and I'm wondering why BM is focusing on me and not SB9.

I've already claimed so there is nothing to stand in the way of out claiming now flavor.[/quo

@MATHBLADE - READ MY POSTS PLEASE

he has already claimed.

You seem like scum trying to give him an out.

On the contrary. I am trying to give NPOM rope to hang himself if they are.

The standard play is if someone has a guilty is to elim the guilty but I agree something is fishy here.

NPOM has to complete the guilty first. I am reading your posts. Sometimes if you scumread someone you have to give them space to hang themselves or they give you nothing.

By not voting either way both outer and NPOM fight respectively it gives us more.

[MathBlade]

Fine I'm town even neo.
N 2 target ower - not vanilla

Why them?

[MathBlade]

Hmmm

I think there’s still something fishy.

Titus when you hop on I have a question for you. It regards a super old game of yours. I just don’t know if I trust you yet and I want to reaction test you.

[MathBlade]

Y’all make my head hurt. My NPOM read hasn’t changed.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Fine I'm town even neo.
N 2 target ower - not vanilla

Why them?

Why are you giving this claim any credibility? FL’s gambit already caught him out as lying and you said yourself Neap is too much Town power with everything else claimed. Neap claim should be equal to a scumclaim to you.


P.S. Can we not do the thing where we put ourselves at E-1 today?

I agree. There’s something fishy here.

I want to see if we can net more than one scum.

Because if we get a scum me or Ranny die and I want to find another scum first.

[MathBlade]

Masons and Neapolitan don't mix. That's just conf town after conf town outed.

I don't know if I think they're scum together anymore, but I don't like Ranny looking like he's trying to save NPOM.

I agree. Something doesn’t add up here.

I really want Titus to come on.

I don’t want a quick hammer of either of them.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade, why did you crumb so hard yesterday to the point of practically claiming?

Because that’s how hard I usually crumb and people don’t see it. There’s a recently completed game where I was town bp weak doctor and did it in a specific way to help my top townread ABr. Here Titus was in the game and I am her literal Achilles heel and the majority of her scum reads were my slot and mason buddy. If she was town she needed to readjust as she is a vocal player, so it was designed for her specifically.

[MathBlade]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=22566

Alchemist I am referencing this game if you’re curious.

[MathBlade]

With masons a good way to verify that claim is to look at the other suspected masons iso. They will either do a crumb or something like that to show masons. For your theory to be valid Alch it would have to be before I replaced in as Ranny mentioned masons. So scum would either have to have planned a mason fake claim before I was here. The simpler answer and the correct one is we are masons.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade, why did you crumb so hard yesterday to the point of practically claiming?

Because that’s how hard I usually crumb and people don’t see it. There’s a recently completed game where I was town bp weak doctor and did it in a specific way to help my top townread ABr. Here Titus was in the game and I am her literal Achilles heel and the majority of her scum reads were my slot and mason buddy. If she was town she needed to readjust as she is a vocal player, so it was designed for her specifically.

this is exactly why Math would make the mason play as scum, by the way.

I don't really think it was that incredibly thought out, but I respect the play itself, and that's how you get cleaner with them.

The problem with your proposition that I am scum is I would have had to have thought of it before I replaced in which would require cheating which I would not do.

[MathBlade]

What is your purpose here Flavor?

Let’s assume you’re right. You’re not but let’s consider this.

We know there has to be a scum in NPOM or Outer right.

Shading me doesn’t help that goal. In no world do we elim anyone else.

I have a hunch as to what is happening and why you’re doing it but I need Titus on to confirm.

[MathBlade]

With masons a good way to verify that claim is to look at the other suspected masons iso. They will either do a crumb or something like that to show masons. For your theory to be valid Alch it would have to be before I replaced in as Ranny mentioned masons. So scum would either have to have planned a mason fake claim before I was here. The simpler answer and the correct one is we are masons.

Tbh I don’t think Ranny’s post was much of a crumb. I also don’t get why neither of you died unless scum knew Masons wasn’t the case.

I have a theory as to why but I need Titus on so I can ID the third scum properly.

It’s mainly one of four worlds. I would like to have this solved or at least narrowed before nightfall.

[MathBlade]

What is your purpose here Flavor?

Let’s assume you’re right. You’re not but let’s consider this.

We know there has to be a scum in NPOM or Outer right.

Shading me doesn’t help that goal. In no world do we elim anyone else.

I have a hunch as to what is happening and why you’re doing it but I need Titus on to confirm.

if it helps, I can link you to Ilicit Substances where it was me essentially keeping Cabd/Ffery hydra in a cage all game going "if you're scum, i caught you. if you're town, im locking you in a cage, and yeah, we'll just have to get past that and you'll have to solve from in there".

That could be part of it. That game ended up being us sword fighting all game, where they took turns so it'd be a fair fight, and they're honorable, but scum wasn't able to make any sort of action against us in that game.

Then Xenoblade 2 Mafia happened, and we just got to the town reading each other faster.

I have a really good Devil's Advocate Style if I'm back and forth at helping the overall gamestate kinda understand why some people are townie, and some are scummy. Like even if I'm wrong somewhere, I expect by just fighting hard, the truth will come out. We start to figure out who is correct, and that's fine, we get different sides of the game, ya know. Different pieces of the puzzle to see from.

It’s also why I am not pushing you atm and am trying to convince Ranny not to as well.

To be fair, a majority of the worlds I am considering have you as scum in them. It’s also why I am trying to focus the game on NPOM and Outer. Not only is it the right call to make, we get more that way. By forcing you to talk, if you are scum then it gives town a better chance to see what I do.

If you think I am scum with Ranny (again not true) then pushing me continuously actually weakens your case when you can’t elim me. If I was to fake claim mason I actually die on my sword here and set up a deep wolf. Then two days would be wasted with no content. No content days are best for scum.

If you’re scum you’re not aiming to miselim me as that won’t happen you’re aiming to discredit me.

I am either sure you’re scum or have a severe long game set up and are being intentionally manipulative. The more you talk the more I sort it. The more Ranny has to use.

[MathBlade]

We know there has to be a scum in NPOM or Outer right.

Why do you think this? NPOM is claiming Neapolitan. If he is town then all that result means is I'm not a VT.

Like, I think NPOM is scummy all game but even I have to admit that thinking that one of is confscum is stupid.

The problem with that is if you’re a PR there becomes a problem of way too much power. It depends on what you are. It has to be taken in context.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade - I will HAPPILY eliminate you here. Hold up, what are you talking about?

Does anyone in this game think I would not be 100% on board and helping push it further if a Mathblade wagon was happening?

Like, I'm holding back how hard I wanna push the mason thing right now because that's just not necessary. We are creating better discussion by where we are now on someone I think is likely to be scum as well, and isn't tinfoil.

The problem is it won’t. Town you knows this.

There is a guilty on the table. Yes, I am sure you probably would be on board and push it. Ignoring the guilty for a later day just ends up pushing things down the road here. If there wasn’t a guilty to sort, you’d be correct here and we would be at each other’s throats more than likely. However it’s not the right thing.

Pedit Outworld that’s impossible Ranny is my mason buddy

[MathBlade]

There is not a guilty on the table? what?

NPOM says outer is scum.

Outer not claiming here makes them look like scum here.

NPOM says it’s a 1v2.

Ignoring that to push you or you to push me is silly. At minimum we net 1 scum possibly two. I am pretty sure you’re scum or as Titus says a scum beard here.

Pedit Outer I thought FL said you were VT I probably confused him

Pedit2: There’s fishiness here.

There’s mainly the simple theory which says outer + FL but there’s a moon logic theory I wanna discuss with Titus.

Yes FL NPOM says Outer is not VT.

Well actually two moon theories. One of which you me and Titus are all town.

[MathBlade]

Not liking leaf playing dumb

I am not playing dumb anywhere. There is not a guilty. You claimed he's Not Vanilla. How is that a guilty?

Assume NPOM and Outer are town.

Assume Ranny and I are scum incorrectly.

Balance the setup. NPOM would have to be an odd night Neo. What would Outer be? And if this was possible why hasn’t outer claimed?

[MathBlade]

Even night*

Outer if you townread me claim.

We only have one more elim that can be wrong.

If you’re town and have info it’s more important to out it

[MathBlade]

I'm not gonna get into a dick waving contest with leaf. Leaf and Ower are partners

Can you please not reference genitalia in games? Thanks!

[MathBlade]

Neither do two Alien claims either or someone fucking up a 90% claim. All that was town in my last game.

NPOM also did crumb novice being their hint no one listens D1, meaning their claim did match up with what I noticed so it is possible.

It could be possible they are scum bussing each other.

Just keeping them talking is the best play here.

[MathBlade]

I had a scum game (Shadowrun) that had so much town power I wanted to cry. That was my reaction to some of it.

We barely won that game. Your reaction to Neo reminds me of my scum reaction to some flips.

[MathBlade]

so my theory is NPOM and co thought that NPOM was going down today, so they got a fake guilty plan ready to go, which is why they wanted Outer to claim first. I saw this. I claimed when I did to try to force NPOM to claim the other. Which they did.

I do not think they knew. I think they planned on claiming the exact opposite that Outer did. We already talked about mass claiming today yesterday, i believe, so yes, scum would have thought about it.

And Outer just happens to be a PR.

I am thinking that this was indeed planned but I am not sure which is fake. One is. Mechanically outer’s makes more sense however the choices don’t. Outer should have been on me being a mason. That could be newb or scum were informed/knew outer was a bodyguard so we didn’t get shot.

It could be NPOM and Outer planned to cross bus as well.

There’s a lot here and gotta sort which.

[MathBlade]

NPOM literally was changing his role claim. I saw it happening, and I called him out. I even saw the EXACT play he was trying to make.

They should not have been on you, lol. It would have been amazing if one of the masons would have died because then it would be confirmed the other is town.

Yes. The shot should have 100% been us.

The problem for scum is they have to shoot us tonight (assuming they get a miselim today) or we go into elo and they have to convince everyone we’re scum. Their hands would be literally tied.

If we get a proper elim then scum really have to shoot us. They’re going to run out of breathing room.

[MathBlade]

Titus I hereby submit my motion for you to appear and am subpoenaing you to give your opinion on NPOM and Outer please.

[MathBlade]

What MathBlade said. Best scum can do is miselim one of us and then shoot the other, and that’s not happening. You’ll have to spend a day with one of us mechanically confirmed, unless you intend to bring us to endgame.

this is actually somewhat of a reason to fade in the masons today, then have Outer target the other. This actually gets us a confirmed town tomorrow if they are town, and solves them being scum.

Outer can BG if you flip town.

Ha no.

That’d have worked if Outer claimed before the check.
But I don’t trust outer. That’s a recipe to end up dead.

Mainly almost every single player here has done something I would deem unforgivable and tunnelworthy but it’s literally impossible to elim everyone who did that today.

Instead I want BM and Titus to help sort though the noise.

[MathBlade]

I don't give a s*** about your wifom leaf you are lying

And you would know that, why?

Because you’re lying?

NPOM is salty I caught them lying.

You also TMI’d I was fake claiming, which is why you are scum.

I noticed NPOM trying to change their claim, so I tried to force them to CC me

They probably role copped me or something.

I already stated I was lying about my claim, which NPOM TMI’d knew about.

I was calling them out because they were planning on changing their claim.

I told everyone I caught them lying.

I'm not letting people downplay my awesome catch.

I’m gonna finish Critical Role and lurk. Titus say hi at some point please.

[MathBlade]

NPOM do you trust me?

[MathBlade]

Good. I am going to say this with all the kindness but all the bluntness in the world. Shut up. After a guilty you want scum to incriminate themselves.

If you’re town you’ve been bickering with scum all day and scum won’t say they’re scum. You’ve been doing this for pages. You’re only giving them an out to shade you. You’re literally harming your case here.

Nothing new is gained here. You are 1v2’ing Out and Flavor got it. What is gained with this back and forth?

If you’re right FL is good scum. You’re playing into his hands here.

Your message had been heard. Sometimes mafia is about faith.

[MathBlade]

I hope that’s not too harsh. I apologize if it hurts your feelings but if you’re right doing this is not how to catch Flavor Leaf.

[MathBlade]

There's no credit to it aside from the fake claim which had good reasoning.

Then focus on that. Don’t argue with scum.

Again sorry if I hurt your feelings. But I want to get Ranny hunting here as you or I if you’re right probably die

[MathBlade]

How do you catch flavor leaf?

Flavor Leaf is a master scum and strategist. Not similar to me in terms of how he does strategy but he has plans. He hates when things go sideways but adjusts quick. He’s also really good with emotional manipulation. You catch him my limiting his options and he picks the wrong one. You have to out think Flavor Leaf.

If you know D&D it’s like he’s a end boss sorcerer with 20 charisma and intelligence. You sometimes have to be unexpected to catch him.

[MathBlade]

I personally think leaf is off his game

I think the check threw him and made him off his game. He reminds me of Radiant Cowbells.

Radiant Cowbells would fake claim stupid shit when he was sure. But he’d also do it as scum.

He’s off kilter yes but if he’s scum he’s spinning this and in control of the narrative. Right now I have a theory that if you and I shut up something does/doesn’t happen which I have told Ranny.

Unless you have something new to add continually spamming doesn’t help.

[MathBlade]

this isnt even a free pass. I literally caught you. Someone who has the most experience with me in this game sees that I have caught you.

I'm like 65% sure both Titus and Battle Mage come in here and see that I have caught you.

It’s possible Titus and BM hop on and hammer but then when NPOM flips town something I am becoming more certain of, but I find that unlikely. I think Titus and Battle Mage use this time and sort people. I think Ranny and I have the game solved. But mainly just need Titus and BM to come on and confirm a few things.

[MathBlade]

I can already tell what Mathblade is trying to do. They're going to tie me to Titus next.

Actually no.

[MathBlade]

Is fl and Ower in your solve?

The primary one yes.

[MathBlade]

this isnt even a free pass. I literally caught you. Someone who has the most experience with me in this game sees that I have caught you.

I'm like 65% sure both Titus and Battle Mage come in here and see that I have caught you.

It’s possible Titus and BM hop on and hammer but then when NPOM flips town something I am becoming more certain of, but I find that unlikely. I think Titus and Battle Mage use this time and sort people. I think Ranny and I have the game solved. But mainly just need Titus and BM to come on and confirm a few things.

This could be TMI'ing NPOM town, I guess.

NPOM town does not = FL scum. I am town regardless of what NPOM ends up flipping.

Math, Ranny, no elim is a possibility.

Like we're solving one of these issues today. We fade in NPOM or we fade in the masons.

You have this day setup to miselim us. When Titus gets on I think I can explain each kill and why stuff happened. I think I have you caught and no, you’re not scum here because of the spat with NPOM today. I think when I talk with Titus she’ll either be able to see it or destroy the points. Sharing earlier just gives you an advantage and time to prepare.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: OuterWorldER

[MathBlade]

I'm not gonna leave Titus and Mathblade alive as scum when pushing a Mathblade is scum claiming mason push. Like, I'm bold as scum, I'm not reckless. Not on the same night that someone who had me as their main scum read dies.

That's like asking to lose if I am scum.

You do when you’ve pocketed Titus.

Me v Titus is a known huge thing on this site.

You’re a manipulator who knows this. You’re saying what you’d not do based on meta instead of strategy.

We elim Outer today.

[MathBlade]

I am a wagon of one right now. Why are you scared?

[MathBlade]

There’s a simple answer to this Titus will see.

[MathBlade]

Why are you so scared of Titus and Battle Mage talking? Why are you so insistent today?

[MathBlade]

What's my strategy then? I'm pushing Mason claims with no gamestate control. You are acting like I have a strategy going, and I actively caught out NPOM changing his claim, a role that you specifically stated didn't make sense as town.

I'll look into reading Battle Mage, Titus, Alchemist, and no elim more, but you are wrong on me.

It’s possible but not likely that I am wrong on you. I have been proven wrong on my setup spec. My reads changed based on evidence. MS does really townsided setups compared to most sites. You are faking the game state control. I am pretty sure how I just need Titus on as what you’re doing is more up her alley than mine.

I like this new push from FL. I think you lost your plans when I claimed mason and winged it. Johnny caught on so you had to shoot him. I am a shit town and Johnny isn’t.

[MathBlade]

I like the push to be clear because I think he knows what I am going to explain and the wine runneth over

[MathBlade]

I’m not getting elimmed, good luck.

You are getting cocky because we’re the only 3 talking right now.

You probably won’t today. More than likely we elim in NPOM and Outer.

Based on how that flip goes will determine tomorrow.

If we elim Outer and Outer is scum then Flavor is conf scum as neo would also possibly be a mafia hood which FL is smart enough to consider so town Flavor is impossible. This makes me and Ranny conf town and NPOM conf town.

If we elim Outer and Outer is VT then Flavor becomes conf town making me Ranny and Flavor conf town.

This means we have three conf town going into tomorrow and scum have to kill in our mason pairing. This leaves whichever of Flavor or NPOM truth telling alive and we elim the liar tomorrow.

VOTE: Outer

Logic here is bad.

Flavor is likely a Neopolitan/Vanilla cop regardless of his alignment.

He already rescinded

[MathBlade]

I already stated I was lying about my claim, which NPOM TMI’d knew about.

I was calling them out because they were planning on changing their claim.

I have a headache.

So you're not a Neo/VT cop
NPOM objected because he knew it to be false..

Why not too much power problem?

Is this to me or FL?

[MathBlade]

I think Titus is town. But I am rarely listened to day 1.

This here I thought was the novice or naive crumb. I forget which modifier is which.

I expected NPOM to be a n2+ action

[MathBlade]

I think Titus is town. But I am rarely listened to day 1.

This here I thought was the novice or naive crumb. I forget which modifier is which.

I expected NPOM to be a n2+ action

That's not a crumb.

That's akin to me saying I suck at d1.

Maybe not intentionally. It was one of the reasons I didn’t want to push NPOM though. It happened to be right. I look for crumbs in initial posts. They help shape claims especially when I don’t have time to read a big thread.

[MathBlade]

It may just be a happy coincidence that matches.

It could be NPOM Outer FL (my moon logic world)

The much more popular theory matches up with VCA though so I think it makes most sense

[MathBlade]

Hmmm

I think there’s still something fishy.

Titus when you hop on I have a question for you. It regards a super old game of yours. I just don’t know if I trust you yet and I want to reaction test you.

I'm here now. Just pedit me.

So does FL know about your Radiant Cowbells game where you faked a guilty then coasted?

The fishy part is with these role claims. I can’t put my finger on it. I am trying to figure out if he has the meta awareness to do something like that.

[MathBlade]

I don't read games I'm not in unless a player I don't know does something cool, and even then, I just look at post game stuff.

I am not asking you I am asking Titus for a reason and I want her response tyvm

[MathBlade]

We know there has to be a scum in NPOM or Outer right.

We don't know this.

It could be Alch No elim and BM in theory.

Lmao I highly doubt this. While possible that’s not probable. Town does with probable scum deal with possible. I don’t think there’s two PRs in addition to masons still. That’s just not likely.

[MathBlade]

Hmmm

I think there’s still something fishy.

Titus when you hop on I have a question for you. It regards a super old game of yours. I just don’t know if I trust you yet and I want to reaction test you.

I'm here now. Just pedit me.

So does FL know about your Radiant Cowbells game where you faked a guilty then coasted?

The fishy part is with these role claims. I can’t put my finger on it. I am trying to figure out if he has the meta awareness to do something like that.

I'm not really recalling that specifically myself but faking a guilty is a common scum tactic. My partner did that in a recent game and I was the babysitter protecting all the PRs that kept dying.

It was cops and doctors. Remember now?

Do you get a vibe of SVS, TVS, SVT, or TvT?

[MathBlade]

We know there has to be a scum in NPOM or Outer right.

We don't know this.

It could be Alch No elim and BM in theory.

Lmao I highly doubt this. While possible that’s not probable. Town does with probable scum deal with possible. I don’t think there’s two PRs in addition to masons still. That’s just not likely.

how do you know this without knowing scum roles?

I am town mason. If NPOM and Outer are town that’s two more PRs.

That’s why I said it’s unlikely. I don’t see that passing review.

[MathBlade]

Ranny and I tried figuring out what PRs would work and we didn’t see a whole lot.

A gated PR like an even night Neo with the current roles outed would make sense in a high power game as the odds of hitting a town PR and thinking scum are high. Makes a lot more sense than indecisive bodyguard

[MathBlade]

Ranny and I tried figuring out what PRs would work and we didn’t see a whole lot.

A gated PR like an even night Neo with the current roles outed would make sense in a high power game as the odds of hitting a town PR and thinking scum are high. Makes a lot more sense than indecisive bodyguard

You literally said Neo doesn't make sense with Masons. Convenient setup spec, I'll tell you what that is.

Oh no! My setup spec changes as I learn about the setup. Sue me.

[MathBlade]

Ranny and I tried figuring out what PRs would work and we didn’t see a whole lot.

A gated PR like an even night Neo with the current roles outed would make sense in a high power game as the odds of hitting a town PR and thinking scum are high. Makes a lot more sense than indecisive bodyguard

You literally said Neo doesn't make sense with Masons. Convenient setup spec, I'll tell you what that is.

Oh no! My setup spec changes as I learn about the setup. Sue me.

except the setup spec didn't change.

It went from Neo to Neo.

No. It went from wtf to oh yeah it’s MS. Outer claimed bg with bad choices then reevaluated based on what I knew and realized the Neo was likely negative utility if true.

[MathBlade]

It’s quite possible it’s all bullshit and NPOM and outer are both scum which is why I wanted Titus’s opinion on it as she’s a gambiter more so than me. But mainly outer not being on claimed masons then immediately unvoting Ranny when I reminded him he’s my mason buddy means that he knew I was a mason yet didn’t take roles into account.

[MathBlade]

Outer though is the safer claim and the double scum theory is more moonlogicky. The primary theory I have is NPOM is town so I want Outer elimmed.

Pedit I disagree. If FL is scum he probably didn’t want Outer to claim protect me because if he goes down he can’t argue masons scum. Outer’s unvote means he townread me. Which means by default he should have been on me. It’s the day play in combo with that that’s so bad

[MathBlade]

There’s a simple answer to this Titus will see.

Someone is buddying me here. Both you and FL are saying that I will magically see the game here.

FL, your NPOM plus masons doesn't work.

Math, I don't like how much pressure you're putting on me.

I don’t like it either. I didn’t expect to be alive and need to town block. I have to be you. I like being me. This elim even though not elo I think makes or breaks the game. I think it’s FL + Outer + Alch and you were pocketed. Alch’s been Ranny’s read for a while and I saw a post early game that made me go damn that’s a good read. FL was my strongest read into the night and Outer admittedly was because mechanics I had you there originally.

It sucks because imho a majority of the town alive are the quieter players. So yes I am buddying you but I am town doing so.

[MathBlade]

I was only there because I pushed you yesterday.

I wish I could quote the mason PT to prove you wrong but that’s illegal.

[MathBlade]

I think it's safe to say there are not two neos and we did not get opposing vanilla results

So wait you and FL are both claiming Neo?

No, I saw he was about to change his claim, so I claimed Neo.

I rescinded my claim.

Then he claimed Neopolitan and that Outer was Not Vanilla Town.

Outer claimed bg

Here's the plothole I have. You and NPOM and outer is too perfect.

You happen to predict what NPOM would change his claim to despite there being two masons and that kind of claim doesn't make sense from scum.

Outer just happens to vouch for NPOM's claim.

Like it seems most likely that NPOM is just a scum rolecop given his alleged prior d3 claim.

I still want to find the partner though.

Correct that to Flavor is informed a Neo exists imho. He was specific and wrong.

If NPOM is scum and I am wrong it’s IMHO 100% with FL and it’s a planned action. I just think it’s more likely outer is scum here. NPOM FL Alch is something considered as well and if it wasn’t for the check I’d be at FL today hard. It’s just not the right thing today

[MathBlade]

If NPOM is scum role cop, I have no idea who the others are. Maybe NPOM agreed to be bussed by FL last night.

no, you guys are just scum or town who wanna say they "caught Flavor Leaf", even at the expense of losing the game.

Why are you making the game about you when it’s about solving NPOM v Outer?

[MathBlade]

Also, Outer has never once stated they thought you were scum, why is it scummy of them to UNVOTE a mason?

You guys are actively misconstruing things.

I still think this is a great reason for the masons to get faded within them, but I digress.

The vote itself is scummy.

If he thought I was town then he naturally thinks Ranny is town. The unvote shows he’s not thinking about PRs which a BG naturally would. He’d have explained why he didn’t heal us. You can’t have him not trust and trust us at the same time which is required for your theory.

[MathBlade]

You repeat things. That doesn’t make them true.

This is not productive. Good night.

[MathBlade]

Welcome MathBlade. Fine, if we’re going to discuss this, let’s get off E-1. UNVOTE: (Looking at you, OutWorldER)

So you think Andres was the night kill to lock in his town read of titus? I was thinking it was to make his scum read of sb9 go away.

I could see that too. Partially why I throw SB9 with Titus and BM

Mainly the neighborizer dying and neighborizing BM doesn’t make sense with the ISO and was focusing on NKA as a start.

You can have a townread stuff in my jar for safekeeping.

I did here. I stuffed him in my jar.

Stop lying FL.

[MathBlade]

You guys chose the Day 2 wagon.

NPOM is today.

Scum don’t pick wagons. And yes we did on claimed scum. I do that every time. People should learn to play better or if they don’t wanna play replace out.

[MathBlade]

Welcome MathBlade. Fine, if we’re going to discuss this, let’s get off E-1. UNVOTE: (Looking at you, OutWorldER)

So you think Andres was the night kill to lock in his town read of titus? I was thinking it was to make his scum read of sb9 go away.

I could see that too. Partially why I throw SB9 with Titus and BM

Mainly the neighborizer dying and neighborizing BM doesn’t make sense with the ISO and was focusing on NKA as a start.

You can have a townread stuff in my jar for safekeeping.

I did here. I stuffed him in my jar.

Stop lying FL.

Crumbing is not claiming.

I did not say you didn't crumb. I expect you to crumb as scum when you're setting up a mason claim.

You actively didn't claim it is why it's scummy.

You just made my point.


FIXED^


Also, you are once again misconstruing.

You're pushing like I'm lying, and there is absolutely no lie there. You are straight up the one misrepping.

That’s a crumb and a claim sir. It’s both.

[MathBlade]

No. I am not posting for you. I just can’t let your BS stand. I was content to just lurk but you can’t lie your way out of this.

[MathBlade]

You’re continuing to share me and Ranny when NPOM or Outer are the elim.

You’re literally so focused on me you stop talking NPOM

You’re out of control dude. If you’re town you’re so focused on moon logic it’s kinda sad. I am training a newer player in Ranny and I already am a horrible town block leader. It’s not my skill set. I am doing what I can how I can do we win.

I just think you’re scum though. It makes the most sense

[MathBlade]

There's at least one scum in NPOM and FL most likely as both are claiming a gambit that busted the other.
Mathblade and Ranny are claimed masons.
OutWorlder is a clamed bodyguard.
Titus and Alchemist claim headaches.

I think that FL and Mathblade are both town, or if one is scum its FL and he's pulling a double gambit with NPOM.
I don't like any of the three slots though that are outside NPOM/FL/The Masons, which puts me in a bit of a quandry because not everyone can be scum.

World's shittiest readslist but at least it'll help get people into the game.

I think both are is a possibility, but both are would mean the game would be exactly FL/NM/Outer. Possible but I don’t think it’s probable.

[MathBlade]

Ideally if it weren’t for the claim I would want to elim FL but it’s bad form to elim outside a mechanical claim like that.

[MathBlade]

I think Titus is town. But I am rarely listened to day 1.

I agree. The strongest impression I get out of these starting pages is that Titus is Town.

I think Ranny v Superbowl might be S v T or T v S.

Which do you think is more likely scum?

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

makes me think Wiveryn over Hessian as a partner for NPOM.

nah i'd say the opposite. scum don't tend to need much talking into distancing their teammates. although im still leaning NPOM town now anyway I think.

I strongly disagree with that take on distancing. Some people are bus-it-into-the-ground players but most aren’t.

Self vote followed by a quickhammer. What the hell even is this game anymore?

This is my case on why Alch. And why I think it’s Alch+FL+Outer

1) You’ve been buddied hard imho. The instant townread of you. It’s too preplanned. Later he asks you do you think it’s SVT or TVS on two slots I now know are mechanically confirmed town. This helps preserve a bias in your head that you’re right. I do this as scum a lot.

2) The reaction in 591 is an indirect support of what Flavor Leaf is pushing yet the direct interactions with Flavor Leaf are few and far between. They’ve had a hard on for NPOM since day one (FL especially so) so FL+NPOM would require this to have been planned from Day one. FL+NPOM+Alch I guess is possible just outer seems more likely with the shifty BG claim. Alch is usually more “solvey” as town and Ranny pushing Alch and then Alch disappearing sold his read to me even further. Alch should at least have a little bit and doesn’t.

3) Post 299 is out of place here. Alch is reacting as if he knows the slot will flip town. Scum vote themselves often if they want to die. This reaction was waaay too strong. The quick hammer after the self vote did happen yes but then where is Alch pushing that? He abandoned the Outerworld read and is now on NPOM.

This I think ties them together a lot. That’s why my primary world is FL Outer Alch

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I remeber him being the strongeest proponent of ben's elimination.

What’s your take on Overworld’s hammer?

my take is he leveraged the fact I had done something like that in my last game with him, as a crutch to absolve himself of responsibility.

That doesn't imply he's necessarily scum, but it means it's not something I townread either.

If he’s done it before I would just think it’s impulsiveness on his part.

Specifically here he abandons the quick hammer scummy theory then goes Ohhhh my bad yet tomorrow never pushes outer. This is a line of incongruency that doesn’t make sense.

[MathBlade]

I possibly have more experience with FL than anyone here and his play that caught you was one of his more solid gambits.

Alch’s entire ISO is pushing NPOM after suddenly dropping the outer push.

It’s very neat and coordinated too neat.

Pretty much I think all the scum are in NPOM+FL+Outer+Alch. Everyone else I am townreading atm.

[MathBlade]

I read Battle Mage as town. I’ve never seen them scum before, but I like to trust my gut with them, and nothing seems out of place thus far.

Non Imh, meh. Don’t have a read here.

Hessian, same thing.

Ranny’s a bit weird. I’ve never played with them before. I remember slightly town reading them for the half claim surprise thing, but Titus thinks they are scum, it seems, so I think there’s a chance they are scum. I wouldn’t say they’re anywhere close to being my first pick, though.

Wiveryn, newer player. Nothing.

So there’s a lot of holes where scum could be at. I actually wanna say it’s probably more likely that the Ben wagon didn’t have much scum on it, if any. Fast wagons early happen because townies hop on and think it’s funny to get something deep.

If you don’t want a quick fade, don’t put the wagon up more.

NPOM actually looks bad because they put the E-2 vote, then Ben self voted.

Flavor Leaf pivots onto NPOM after NPOM says they were responsible for the wagon.

NPOM’s “stock” sunk after they pushed FL and there’s no proper prior catalyst action. It’s around this time Alch pivots too.

The simple answer imho is FL+Alch+Outer and they were protecting their deep wolf
And FL for brownie points calls Outer scum with Ben and that’s usually a scum indicator (not tell) if the original is town because of the original is town they can drop the buddy scumread for free then come back and say “aha I knew it” earlier without having to push.

[MathBlade]

@Alchemist stop lurking and tell us your solve.

What’s your solve Alch?

What are your reads?

And imho that’s not a misrep. You didn’t answer this anywhere I could find. Lurking can be active

[MathBlade]

There's at least one scum in NPOM and FL most likely as both are claiming a gambit that busted the other.
Mathblade and Ranny are claimed masons.
OutWorlder is a clamed bodyguard.
Titus and Alchemist claim headaches.

I think that FL and Mathblade are both town, or if one is scum its FL and he's pulling a double gambit with NPOM.
I don't like any of the three slots though that are outside NPOM/FL/The Masons, which puts me in a bit of a quandry because not everyone can be scum.

World's shittiest readslist but at least it'll help get people into the game.

I think both are is a possibility, but both are would mean the game would be exactly FL/NM/Outer. Possible but I don’t think it’s probable.

FL/NM doesn't mean outer must be scum.

If you feel this is the setup, why do you seem so against the NPOM wagon?

I am against it because of what I mentioned before.

I have had a townread on NPOM before and looking at their ISO to see if their claim had merit only solidified the read.

It’s possible NPOM is scum here. It’s just if NPOM is scum, FL scum and Outer/Alch scum regain so much footing and become nigh on impossible to elim.

On the other hand outer is more likely scum and the better strategic play. We have one wrong elim left assuming 3 scum. If Outer happens to be town then NPOM scum is likely confirmed.

Mainly the Outer elim imho has the best chance imho of flipping red and better for long term play if I am wrong. It’s mainly strategic and wagon analysis.

[MathBlade]

@Alchemist stop lurking and tell us your solve.

What’s your solve Alch?

What are your reads?

And imho that’s not a misrep. You didn’t answer this anywhere I could find. Lurking can be active

I’m still trying to figure that out. NPOM I’m sure of. There could be a weird bussing tactic between him and overworld but, nah that’s not right because again he would have had more certainty on whether overworld actually claimed VT or not when Ranny brought it up. FL’s not the bussing type so I’m ruling out the idea that that’s s/s.

BM/NoElim/Titus would have to have the other 2 if the Masonry is real which I am still skeptical of tbh. Take out Titus because of the Town headache and you get NPOM/BM/NoElim as most likely.

FL is absolutely the bussing type.

He’s a gamestate controller. That means anything to control the narrative. Check his link in his sig.

(Titus note the soft defense of FL again)

And why haven’t you been poking BM/No Elim to sort that? Why was your ISO all NPOM before replace in and not sorting the quick hammer by Outer which you noted was weird? Why did that disappear? You didn’t say the word scummy but the implication is there.

[MathBlade]

FL’s not the bussing type so I’m ruling out the idea that that’s s/s.

Did you read his scum guide at all? This isn't outside of FL's range if FL is scum.

This would be drawing attention away from the third scum.

The problem is that I have too many viable theories and not enough people active outside Math/FlavorLeaf/NPOM to really filter them down.

I’ll be afk tonight that will help

[MathBlade]

There's at least one scum in NPOM and FL most likely as both are claiming a gambit that busted the other.
Mathblade and Ranny are claimed masons.
OutWorlder is a clamed bodyguard.
Titus and Alchemist claim headaches.

I think that FL and Mathblade are both town, or if one is scum its FL and he's pulling a double gambit with NPOM.
I don't like any of the three slots though that are outside NPOM/FL/The Masons, which puts me in a bit of a quandry because not everyone can be scum.

World's shittiest readslist but at least it'll help get people into the game.

I think both are is a possibility, but both are would mean the game would be exactly FL/NM/Outer. Possible but I don’t think it’s probable.

FL/NM doesn't mean outer must be scum.

If you feel this is the setup, why do you seem so against the NPOM wagon?

I am against it because of what I mentioned before.

I have had a townread on NPOM before and looking at their ISO to see if their claim had merit only solidified the read.

It’s possible NPOM is scum here. It’s just if NPOM is scum, FL scum and Outer/Alch scum regain so much footing and become nigh on impossible to elim.

On the other hand outer is more likely scum and the better strategic play. We have one wrong elim left assuming 3 scum. If Outer happens to be town then NPOM scum is likely confirmed.

Mainly the Outer elim imho has the best chance imho of flipping red and better for long term play if I am wrong. It’s mainly strategic and wagon analysis.

This reads like you don't want NPOM to be scum because you want to make the hero play and fulfill Superbowl's wishes.

I don't see how anyone, town or scum, reads NPOM's trajectory and thinks his claim gets stronger. Particularly one who says there's too much power anyway.

I don't really see you going all out to save NPOM here as his scum buddy because NPOM flipping scum essentially loses you the game.

Outer isn't really a claimed liar here either. NPOM is.

Your conclusions just don't make sense as either alignment and its infuritating.

It’s PoE. We are in one of three worlds.
One both are scum >> We get a scum elim whichever way.
Two neither are scum >> Yell at review board for WTF and I really doubt this
Three only one is scum >> This is most likely based on NPOM doing this unprovoked.

Yes NPOM lied. RC lies many townies lie when they think it suits them. As much as I wish we could do elim all liars we’d end up with like no one left this game.

NPOM also as scum necessitates either a you or FL scum partner to do that claim unprovoked. This would be a huge gambit. I scumread FL and townread you so I naturally don’t want to give FL what he wants.

I am pretty much dead set on FL scum here based on the Johnny kill and how he and Alch shade me and Ranny.

[MathBlade]

The masons are hard defending scum right now, that’s why this game is fucked.

They specifically just want me to be scum and they’re letting it cloud their judge,ent, and honestly, I’m kinda done with this game.

If no lim and I come over, then we'd still have majority without the masons.

Go for it. You’d have wagon based proof scum were on that wagon if you do it without us.

Scum would necessarily be on that wagon and it would prove my point scum want NPOM dead.

[MathBlade]

Why do people keep bringing up what RadiantCowbells would do as if everyone plays the same as him?

I am bringing him up as an example to demonstrate townies lie. He’s the most notable I know to do it.

[MathBlade]

That’s not the most likely though.

I am 95% sure scum!FL wants NPOM dead.

I don’t want to give him what he wants. It’s more likely NPOM is town here.

I don’t want to give a strategist like FL what he wants as scum.

[MathBlade]

I know an FL execution isn’t smart but that doesn’t mean I do what he demands if anything I do the opposite.

[MathBlade]

That’s not the most likely though.

I am 95% sure scum!FL wants NPOM dead.

I don’t want to give him what he wants. It’s more likely NPOM is town here.

I don’t want to give a strategist like FL what he wants as scum.

Math, you're tunnelling FL so hard and you're trying to fit everything he does to be scum when he transparently isn't.

The refusal to claim his negative utlity is transparently a way to try and bait a nightkill.
Scum NPOM can know that town!outer is a bodyguard just by using investigative power on him.
NPOM is the only "even night" in the entire game.
NPOM originally claimed VT and then changed his claim when mass claim came around.

No matter what route is taken, NPOM is scum here.

I'm not voting Outer.

So you can either compromise on a lynch on NPOM or join me in starting Battle Mage to put off this fight another day. But if I die, you need to shut up and take the NPOM execution.

I am doing neither. You or FL are scum based on how this day went and I townread BattleMage.

You’re calling FL town and not explaining it. You’re pocketed and I explained how.

I do not do what scum want.

[MathBlade]

I know an FL execution isn’t smart but that doesn’t mean I do what he demands if anything I do the opposite.

That's surface level.

Remember how when we'd squabble as kids. I'd do one thing because I know you'd object and I'd get exactly what I wanted anyway?

If FL is scum, he knows you'll just oppose him regardless. Don't look at what he wants. Look at what you want.

I want Outer. I think it’s FL Outer Alch.

If I am wrong then to come back to NPOM tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

Math, just give me a chance with going NPOM.

He's not going to. He's too far gone.

Discuss your Battle Mage townread with me.

I will after work. Too hard atm to explain while working.

[MathBlade]

I didn’t have anything with Battle Mage that pinged me, however, i do normally town read him when he is town, and his Outer vote does make sense as scum, so NPOM/Battle Mage does make sense. I don’t think either Outer or Alchemist are bussing NPOM, so that means it’s probably NPOM/BM/No Elim.

Which sucks because the masons give NPOM strength.

Alternatively, I’m wrong on Outer, but I need within NPOM and the masons today.

I don’t give scum what they want.

[MathBlade]

I didn’t have anything with Battle Mage that pinged me, however, i do normally town read him when he is town, and his Outer vote does make sense as scum, so NPOM/Battle Mage does make sense. I don’t think either Outer or Alchemist are bussing NPOM, so that means it’s probably NPOM/BM/No Elim.

Which sucks because the masons give NPOM strength.

Alternatively, I’m wrong on Outer, but I need within NPOM and the masons today.

I was kinda hoping you would defend Battle Mage so I could con Mathblade into eliminating him correctly. What really pinged me (aside from our earlier fights) is his historical vote pattern. He's third on NPOM on earlier days, but when the time comes back, he votes Outer instead. He then scurries off (likely because IRL but still).

Outer would likely only be scum with NPOM anyway because Outer claiming not VT gives NPOM's claim some legitimacy because it would be accurate.

Why are you not considering NPOM town?