Newbie 2076 [Game Over]

[Roden]

VOTE: Clasko

Piplup is GOAT.

[Roden]

VOTE: Clasko

Piplup is GOAT.

Your scum buddy being voted by Clakso eh?

Hi.

Hi Lickety, kinda sad u had to roll scum this game

[Roden]

What is everyone's experience playing Mafia?

RQS is a scum tell. It's an irrelevant question that's just there to make you look busy.

VOTE: LQ

What is everyone's experience playing Mafia?

I've been playing on MS semi-regularly since I joined.

VOTE: Margot

You're forgetting that the D/P remakes are coming out later this year. Also, "honestly" tell.

P.S. Hockey is town on vibes.

What do you have against honesty?

It's nothing major, but it's simply that scum sometimes have a tendency to overuse words that they think will "sound" more towny.

Had a newbie game where someone said "tbh" over thirty times and turned out to be scum. They still won even after it was pointed out as a scum tell too.

[Roden]

If you're asking about the RQS scum tell sample size, you've been on this site long enough to know that one.

If it's the "tbh" tell I'm not sure how you expect me to source that unless you want me to comb through every newbie game and CTRL+F scum ISO's for "tbh" and "honestly". Which uh, I'm not gonna do. But I'm clearly not the only one who's heard of that tell anyway.

[Roden]

If you're asking about the RQS scum tell sample size, you've been on this site long enough to know that one.

If it's the "tbh" tell I'm not sure how you expect me to source that unless you want me to comb through every newbie game and CTRL+F scum ISO's for "tbh" and "honestly". Which uh, I'm not gonna do. But I'm clearly not the only one who's heard of that tell anyway.

I use honestly and tbh a lot. Will try to keep that in mind lol.

And personality appreciate the RQS stuff. Light atmosphere to start the game, which I imagine will get quite testy

Had a newbie game where someone said "tbh" over thirty times and turned out to be scum. They still won even after it was pointed out as a scum tell too.

if we're talking about the same game I think you're referring to, didn't that same person say they used 'tbh' constantly? Meaning it would be more NAI?

I'm not necessarily against considering the frequency someone uses a certain word to determine whether they're scum when analysing them as town v. scum, but it wouldn't be the end-all-be-all for me IMO, and it sort of lends itself towards 'meta' and IDK if I'm prepared to go there yet.

I wouldn't hard accuse anyone for it, the tbh tell was me commenting on Egix bringing it up and backing it up with my own belief in it. It's nothing I'd bother trying to use on Day 1 though, I think it's reasonable that people use it naturally in their speech patterns. It's just when you have people using it sparingly or never in their confirmed town games and then blatantly overusing it in games they're suspicious in, then I think it has merit.

My opinion on RQS doesn't seem popular, but I've been burned a few times by people who try to look helpful/busy by engaging in RQS but then turn out to be scum. It's easy town cred for too little effort IMO.

[Roden]

T3, 1 question for you. Even if your crackpot theory DOES work, why force claim tracker to claim d1 f1. While I still hate the idea of a PR claiming d1, im more on the side of the tracker claiming late d1, after we've had good discusscion. If your answer is "tracker might get pushed", who cares? By that time, we will hopefully have 2-3 susses and we can just pivot to the 2nd one

I think I know why T3's going for this and I'm just gonna town lock him now.

I mean, prolonging RQS and to keep talking about it beyond your first few posts is sus sure. But the person who did RQS this game(Lickety), did not prolong and even got some /starter/ reads(Only serious read is the TR on me, but still, Lickety did get some info, so sure RQS may be easy town cred for little effort but Idt thats the case in this game

This is a fair point actually.

[Roden]

I think you'll just see as the game goes on. I'm sensing a spicy T3 play and scum might not be happy starting Day 2.

[Roden]

I think you'll just see as the game goes on. I'm sensing a spicy T3 play and scum might not be happy starting Day 2.

Okay you saying this implies that you

want

tracker to claim d1 f1? If thats true, what do u think the benefit actually is in claiming tracker d1 f1?

I can't answer this unfortunately.

[Roden]

In terms of the tbh tell, the last time I tried to apply it, it led me astray because, as mentioned above, the person just talked (wrote?) like that. I've seen games where it is a notable difference in someone's style, but I suspect in newbie games it will generally be harder to apply.

I think its more valuable to see whether that statement where they said "tbh" comes from a scum motive then to scumhunt via a tell that probably doesnt even work

Also, I am in the camp that there is no need for a tracker to claim on page 3, or even Day 1 for that matter unless they get close to elimination. Still, this is the sort of gambit that I've discovered is well within T3's wheelhouse so I don't see it as particularly indicative.

Yeah look, if this is just a site meta thing that I don't know about, I'm happy to drop it. Still not pleased with the idea, and will stick to my guns in opposing the idea, but happy enough to go with it if the majority decide to go that route

Sorry, I think I'm just not being clear about this. The tbh tell really only applies way later in the game and if the person is basically spamming it when normally they wouldn't. Think of it as a written tic, the overstated word could be anything but "tbh" is one of the more common ones. If you already use it naturally in your speech patterns then it doesn't mean anything at all, so it wouldn't apply to you.

I think you'll just see as the game goes on. I'm sensing a spicy T3 play and scum might not be happy starting Day 2.

Okay you saying this implies that you

want

tracker to claim d1 f1? If thats true, what do u think the benefit actually is in claiming tracker d1 f1?

I can't answer this unfortunately.

Hmmm Hiding info from town now are we? Idt this is AI and i will probs drop this topic. I do have a question tho; What are your thoughts on the game so far

I trust the site meta on the Tracker claim stuff.

Does this mean you agree that tracker should claim d1?

I'm hiding info from scum actually.

Thoughts on the game so far is that it's going pretty slow and we don't have a town leader pushing the game forward. T3's probably giving us the most content to work with.

[Roden]

Sorry, I think I'm just not being clear about this. The tbh tell really only applies way later in the game and if the person is basically spamming it when normally they wouldn't. Think of it as a written tic, the overstated word could be anything but "tbh" is one of the more common ones. If you already use it naturally in your speech patterns then it doesn't mean anything at all, so it wouldn't apply to you.

I was referring to the plan to out TR early d1. The honestly and tbh stuff I'm not going to drop. That's just being a young aussie woman who's online too much lol

Ah, whoops.

I'm hiding info from scum actually.

Thoughts on the game so far is that it's going pretty slow and we don't have a town leader pushing the game forward. T3's probably giving us the most content to work with.

Not a massive fan of this either. Like, is the plan to slip up newbies based on some site meta stuff?

I have a few sus reads, and I'm still not convinced that T3 isn't behaving in a scummy way. Outing TR d1 is a weird hill to die on

It's not a site meta thing, no. I don't think power roles should out themselves today, but I don't want scum to know what T3 is going for if he's town.

Also for anyone who hasn't played with T3 before: he almost always fucks around with role claims, no matter his alignment. I just had a newbie game where I was scum and he was town and he fake claimed Mason.

[Roden]

I'm hiding info from scum actually.

You literally can't be because otherwise you are a PR and not hiding anything with a comment like this. Else it's just unnecessary WIFOM.

This isn't WIFOM lol.

If I'm scum pretending to crumb being a PR and I get wagon'd and forced to claim, then I just get CC'd and town trades one for one. Bad scum play.

If I'm a PR then I get NK'd tonight. Bad town play.

If I'm VT then I'm drawing the NK. Good town play.

Figure out which one I'm doing.

[Roden]

I am definitely hiding info from scum no matter what though because T3 wants to go for a spicy play and I don't think scum understands that yet if he's town. I'm just enabling him, I want to see what happens and I'll be able to sort him from there.

[Roden]

Oof.

[Roden]

Should we just tell them what you're doing T3? We're just drawing focus away from scum hunting atm.

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

The wagon on LQ built up a little too fast. I think it's weird that he's focused on me saying "honestly" once, and he's clearly panicking and scrambling to avoid getting elim'd. But this is feeling more like a townie flail than a scum flail. Like, less like his back is against the wall and more like he got ganged up on and he doesn't think it's fair. Plus, there's basically been zero resistance to this wagon. If LQ is scum, then his scum buddy would have to be bussing him extremely early into the game.

If we can't find a better choice by EoD then I'll most likely put my vote back on him. But we've still got seven IRL days left until Day 1 ends, and I don't think voting someone out early is a good idea. We should get more info from more people so we can look for associatives when we get a flip.

[Roden]

I'm pretty low key this game because it's my first town newbie game in almost two months and I just had to use scum tactics as town in a themed game. I'm just kinda drained and taking it easy right now since I'm pretty sure town wins this game if the set up is what I think it is.

[Roden]

First scum is almost guaranteed to be between LQ and Margot btw. It's pinging me as TvS pretty hard. Pretty sure we can turbo elim both if the first one flips green.

[Roden]

I'm pretty low key this game because it's my first town newbie game in almost two months and I just had to use scum tactics as town in a themed game. I'm just kinda drained and taking it easy right now since I'm pretty sure town wins this game if the set up is what I think it is.

whoa what newbie 2065 was 2 months ago?

Yep, June 11th was the last post. And I'm only half counting Summertime since I replaced out early.

[Roden]

Hey Strange, hopefully I'll actually finish this game with you this time.

[Roden]

Hockey, are you an alt? You mention things like my scum range but I don't think I've ever played with you before?

[Roden]

Clasko said 'a green flip'
Clasko is scum knowing I will flip green

Uhh... I'll join in with LQ here for the time being even though a green flip doesn't say much at this moment in time:

VOTE: T3

Lol what, voting someone that you dont even SR. Also if you are voting them, why do u expect them to be a green flip?

I think this slot may actually be scum besdies thier towny ish reads earlier

Wait, was it an actual slip? I interpreted it as "if this flips green we gain nothing", though I agree the vote isn't good if T3 isn't a scum read.

[Roden]

Hockey, are you an alt? You mention things like my scum range but I don't think I've ever played with you before?

No I havent, I just assume everyone who I play with on fourm is good at playing scum kek. Can you link some of your scum games if u have any ty

Ah, and sure thing.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86832
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=87026
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=87201

[Roden]

Hockey, are you an alt? You mention things like my scum range but I don't think I've ever played with you before?

Why did you think Hockey was an alt?

I think the quote you're posting answers that question. I didn't recognize them, but they were talking like they knew my playstyle.

[Roden]

Point is, anyone can perapective slip.

VOTE: Clasko

Yeah, I feel like this is money. I think that was an actual slip tbh.

I'm finding it hard to believe Clasko slipped like that. I want to see his response first before discussing it more, but I genuinely don't think scum would make that careless of a mistake, and I think he actually gets some accidental town points for that. If you're voting Clasko, it should be because he voted T3 when he isn't even a scum read.

[Roden]

The wagon on LQ built up a little too fast. I think it's weird that he's focused on me saying "honestly" once, and he's clearly panicking and scrambling to avoid getting elim'd.

But this is feeling more like a townie flail than a scum flail.

Like, less like his back is against the wall and more like he got ganged up on and he doesn't think it's fair. Plus, there's basically been zero resistance to this wagon. If LQ is scum, then his scum buddy would have to be bussing him extremely early into the game.

First scum is almost guaranteed to be between LQ and Margot btw. It's pinging me as TvS pretty hard. Pretty sure we can turbo elim both if the first one flips green.

@Roden:

Given you thought LQ's flail was townie, would you yeet Margot first over LQ?

I'd probably still vote LQ first. The flail looked townie, but Margot hasn't really done anything to earn scum points from me. Unless she does some real scummy shit before EoD, I'm putting my vote back on LQ.

[Roden]

bruh

Why do u TR people that hold info, still dont get it

Well, hiding information like that can be useful to not give information that may benefit scum, but sometimes it’s absolutely necessary to explain otherwise you leave everyone that’s Town with less information. Now about Roden not giving information to scum, was just not needed since Roden was obviously already doing that. Idk that to me can seem like they’re trying to get towncred as scum. I can’t really think of that being something Town says unless for some reason they care about correcting or self conscious about how town thinks about them.

I'm not sure how you reached this interpretation. I can understand why town might be suspicious of me from holding information, but trying to continue to push when I'm making it clear doing so is anti-town is just not a good look. Continuously drawing attention to it is not a good look. Trying to shade me into spilling the beans is especially not a good look.

Hockey claimed Tracker and isn't getting counterclaimed, so I can only assume they're conftown and because of that I won't scum read them. But anyone else who tries to push this when I keep warning against it is gonna get priority of my vote going forward. Trying to get info out of me or T3 about his plan is just a scum move now.

[Roden]

P-edit: @Roden Ah... yeah, I don't SR them, but see if you agree with my reasoning for the vote, anyway.

I can understand it. I also understand the annoyance with me and T3, but I think all that matters wrt that is that the Tracker looks for scum, and if we have a Doc then they need to protect him.

[Roden]

Why would I look bad if Clasko flips red? I don't think it was a slip, I genuinely just think you guys are interpreting his post poorly.

[Roden]

Why would I look bad if Clasko flips red? I don't think it was a slip, I genuinely just think you guys are interpreting his post poorly.

Its about giving him town points which is eh to me

Did you read why I gave him town points? My point was that scum wouldn't be that careless to genuinely slip like that. You said earlier that you play like scum are competent so I'm not sure why it pings you that I'm doing the same.

[Roden]

Actually, I noted something from one of Roden’s scum games, specifically involving past experiences with their scum game with me and Roden’s scum game with them, something really sticks out. So one thing I noticed is that Roden and T3 were townreading each other early, which he in my scum game actually said he would TR my slot when we were both scum. To me there’s also the fact that from what I parsed as pushing pressure off their teammate as well.

This is just meta, so take it with a grain of salt, but I think it should be pointed out.

We also lost that game lol, that strat clearly didn't work and I wouldn't repeat it if I got paired with T3 again.

[Roden]

Strange saying "we cannot let slips just pass by" just feels like a shade attempt without having to commit to it. Which makes me they Strange + Clasko most likely isn't ever a pairing since Strange seems fine with suggesting Clasko is scum. If it was distancing I think it would be more overt.

[Roden]

Also wanna ask SM who their two strongest elimination candidates are rn for D1, and why?
I say two, because one is most likely me which you've hinted the potential reasons for in #279 and iterating that doesn't say much.

I say Roden or you right now is my top two candidates for scum has to be you and the former is honestly better to flip than your slot. Roden elim. To me, getting some information involving the meta (of T3 and Roden) is probably more useful than eliminating you because of what some people here consider a slip.

VOTE: Roden

Even if this flips green it means we still have some sort of information, so either way I think this vote is fine.

Imagine threatening to vote a townie out because they refuse to out town power roles. This is such an overtly scummy thought process you might as well be scum claiming.

VOTE: Strange

[Roden]

Actually I worded the middle part really badly. Town doesn't say that, or even needs to keep repeating that when it's already obvious when Roden. hid information about that.

Then why is T3 also saying that? Your push on here is fake since you'd rather vote me out over T3 when T3 is literally the one who started this. You're looking for a reason to justify a scum read on me instead of actually trying to read me and you're making that incredibly transparent.

[Roden]

If you're asking about the RQS scum tell sample size, you've been on this site long enough to know that one.

If it's the "tbh" tell I'm not sure how you expect me to source that unless you want me to comb through every newbie game and CTRL+F scum ISO's for "tbh" and "honestly". Which uh, I'm not gonna do. But I'm clearly not the only one who's heard of that tell anyway.

Going back to this, this is pretty Scummy?

Feels sorta like fake.

???

What exactly sounds scummy or fake about this?

I wouldn't hard accuse anyone for it, the tbh tell was me commenting on Egix bringing it up and backing it up with my own belief in it. It's nothing I'd bother trying to use on Day 1 though, I think it's reasonable that people use it naturally in their speech patterns. It's just when you have people using it sparingly or never in their confirmed town games and then blatantly overusing it in games they're suspicious in, then I think it has merit.

My opinion on RQS doesn't seem popular, but I've been burned a few times by people who try to look helpful/busy by engaging in RQS but then turn out to be scum. It's easy town cred for too little effort IMO.

Then doubts the "tbh" tell and doubles down on the RQS? I said in 154 that defensiveness and honesty tells were bad, but to keep on the RQS thing was really bad.

T3 how sure are you that Roden is Town here? I expect a straight up answer here.

How am I doubting the tbh tell here? I literally advoated for it lmao, you're just making shit up here. Commenting on RQS isn't "bad", let alone scummy. You and Strange both keep looking for reasons to call me scummy but both of your attempts have been really weak and desperate.

[Roden]

Strange/LQ hero solve, they're both trying to out power roles and that's legitimately scummy.

[Roden]

If you're asking about the RQS scum tell sample size, you've been on this site long enough to know that one.

If it's the "tbh" tell I'm not sure how you expect me to source that unless you want me to comb through every newbie game and CTRL+F scum ISO's for "tbh" and "honestly". Which uh, I'm not gonna do. But I'm clearly not the only one who's heard of that tell anyway.

Going back to this, this is pretty Scummy?

Feels sorta like fake.

???

What exactly sounds scummy or fake about this?

It feels fake because I don't think you honestly believe the stuff you are saying about RQS. Like, why is that Scummy? Look through my games, I lead off with RQS semi-regularely.

Like this:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11817906

I don't care if you always lead off with RQS? It's a notable scum tell and that doesn't change things just because you've done it in the past.

I wouldn't hard accuse anyone for it, the tbh tell was me commenting on Egix bringing it up and backing it up with my own belief in it. It's nothing I'd bother trying to use on Day 1 though, I think it's reasonable that people use it naturally in their speech patterns. It's just when you have people using it sparingly or never in their confirmed town games and then blatantly overusing it in games they're suspicious in, then I think it has merit.

My opinion on RQS doesn't seem popular, but I've been burned a few times by people who try to look helpful/busy by engaging in RQS but then turn out to be scum. It's easy town cred for too little effort IMO.

Then doubts the "tbh" tell and doubles down on the RQS? I said in 154 that defensiveness and honesty tells were bad, but to keep on the RQS thing was really bad.

T3 how sure are you that Roden is Town here? I expect a straight up answer here.

How am I doubting the tbh tell here? I literally advoated for it lmao, you're just making shit up here. Commenting on RQS isn't "bad", let alone scummy. You and Strange both keep looking for reasons to call me scummy but both of your attempts have been really weak and desperate.

Both you and Egix96 used the "honesty" tell. Egix96 said they were only halfway serious about it. You are doubling down on it being Scummy, when it was discussed at length that it's really only Scummy if someone overuses it as Scum compared to Town. I don't think you actually believe these tells. They might be semi-okay to get the game started, but they are really bad once we have 10+ pages. And you didn't stick to those tells. You unvoted me and never voted Margot for the honesty tell. It just seems like you don't actually believe it.

This is the first I've actually heard someone say "I don't think you believe this" lmao, how are you supposed to know what I actually believe? This isn't a real thought process.

Why would I vote Margot when she gave a legitimate reason? If it's a speech quirk and she didn't even say it much I have no reason to turbo elim her over that. It just sounds like you're projecting at this point because you keep saying my posts feel fake, but this legitimately cannot be a real thought process because it makes no logical sense.

[Roden]

Because tells aren't hard proof? Why do I even have to explain that?

[Roden]

I'm not wild about E96 but I think they look better than alstro.

If it comes to it, I'll join on alstro, but I'd prefer Roden, But it doesn't look like anyone else wants Roden dead? T3 TRs them, does anyone besides me SR Roden?

Not going to lie, this is a vote just because, and especially when you scumread Roden is just odd.

Speaking of Roden, do you have any opinions on alstromerical and egix?

Not particularly, no. Besides you and LQ, everyone is coming off really townie, if not a little milquetoast. Hockey gave off scum vibes but no one CC'd their Tracker claim, so they're essentially confirmed town.

[Roden]

Also, T3 feels like a wildcard to me, like he can flip either way right now, and any attempt to have a read on him just hadn't work out. He also hadn't been really scumhunting but just looks for town. Not saying that's a bad thing since POE absolutely can be useful, but at the end of this POE he just doesn't do any hunting to try to find scum in that group.

And Roden, can you please tell me what you see about those two that say they are town?

It's because they're putting in the effort to poke and pressure people. There hasn't been any narrative twisting or notable shade attempts. This is important because the game state is basically going nowhere and scum 100% would be fine with that, attempting to stir the pot would just go against scum's agenda. The only thing that feels off is that they're voting for each other even though they're both giving off town vibes.

Though speaking of which, EoD is coming closer and we need to come together on an elim choice. I currently want either you or LQ gone, but if you've got a case on Alstro or Egix I'd be open to hearing it. Margot is also a person of interest since she keeps attracting a lot of suspicion from people. Everyone else (T3, Clasko, Hockey) are town reads for me and are off the table.

[Roden]

Post #427 I mean. I’m not quite understanding how you got here.

The post where I Iso'd Roden was meant to serve as an outline of that, but it's basically this:
Roden
Quick
Margot

This is a group who have all been pushing on each other to some extent. Here I've ordered them by how towny I think they are.
Heuristically, it's probable that there is at least one scum among them. (Otherwise, what the heck has even been going on)
Considering that I don't particularly think that Alstro is more or less likely to flip scum than Margot is, I think it's better to yeet within the triangle than outside it.

I mean I did say LQ vs Margot looked like TvS. What makes you think Margot is scummier? LQ has made really weird pushes all day while Margot just feels more subdued. Like, I can remember LQ's general attitude and perspective without having to ISO dive him, but I can't say the same for Margot.

[Roden]

Gonna ISO dive them both before deadline tomorrow but I expect I'll just go back to my initial read and vote LQ.

[Roden]

This was so uncomfortable to read. Also very unnecessary since it did nothing to change my mind and overall added nothing to the game. LQ isn't scummy because of whatever personal reason Ythan has against him; LQ is scummy because his ISO is full of flip-flopping and opportunistic pushes with flimsy reasoning.

VOTE: LQ

[Roden]

Big oof.

[Roden]

On red flip we go Strange next. On green flip it's Margot.

[Roden]

scum might not be happy starting Day 2.

Told you guys so lol.

[Roden]

Eh, that is probably for the better to keep it silent. A bit of a dilemma involving Roden here to be honest. I know for a good fact now that Roden's TR has scum in it or he is scum. The only way to prove that information is if I get eliminated today or he just believes me which the latter doesn't seem likely to me.

I actually don't think it's you anymore due to the NK. Though I'm not sure how you know for a fact my town reads have scum in it? I only have three town reads and one of them is a confirmed townie.

[Roden]

I actually don't particularly disagree with an Alstro vote. I think the final scum has to be someone who wasn't particularly active. The reason being that last night's failed NK only comes from someone who wasn't paying attention to the conversations everyone had, because targeting the Tracker should've been the obvious wrong answer.

VOTE: Alstro

[Roden]

Eh, that is probably for the better to keep it silent. A bit of a dilemma involving Roden here to be honest. I know for a good fact now that Roden's TR has scum in it or he is scum. The only way to prove that information is if I get eliminated today or he just believes me which the latter doesn't seem likely to me.

I actually don't think it's you anymore due to the NK. Though I'm not sure how you know for a fact my town reads have scum in it? I only have three town reads and one of them is a confirmed townie.

Then I miscounted or read things incorrectly with this.

Ah. Yeah my town reads EoD were T3/Clasko/Tracker slot. I had Egix and Alstro as town leans but they're not glued in place, I just didn't have any intention to vote them over you/LQ/Margot on Day 1.

[Roden]

I actually don't particularly disagree with an Alstro vote. I think the final scum has to be someone who wasn't particularly active. The reason being that last night's failed NK only comes from someone who wasn't paying attention to the conversations everyone had, because targeting the Tracker should've been the obvious wrong answer.

VOTE: Alstro

Scum could also be willing to gamble on a 50-50 shot that we're in a setup with an FN given that they're in a tight spot. I am curious about Clasko though given that he was prodded and we haven't heard from him since, but since he hasn't been replaced he must have picked up the prod during the night. Either way, there are some circumstances where a player could find that targeting the tracker is the right answer. /shrug

The only circumstances where scum targets Tracker N1 are when scum don't realize we have a Doctor. And the only way scum doesn't realize that is if they weren't paying attention. This is why Strange is out of my PoE today despite me scum reading them yesterday.

[Roden]

I don't know how you expect me to answer that without just repeating myself or exposing the Doctor.

[Roden]

It isn't T3.

[Roden]

Any input on my track is fine. It's not as if they can do anything but sweat.

I'm happy to go with you, give tracker full lead on who gets eliminated.

I'd be ok with either Clasko or Alstro, but I'd say track which ever of the two don't get yeeted tonight and we'll go from there

see like quotes like these -- makes it seem like you are setting up chainlims right.

because you would want the tracker not to go on you etc.

also isnt hockey tracker what happened to that claim kek

I heavily doubt Margot is the second scum. Between the two of them, LQ would've been the PR so I don't see why they 1v1 each other here. Scum desperately needed its Rolecop, so it makes no sense to bus him.

[Roden]

Also hello again, Grandpa.

[Roden]

I'm not sure why you guys keep persisting to get T3 and me to explain what T3 is doing when I've stated multiple times now that it would out the Doc.

[Roden]

I don't think prolonging the day has gotten us anywhere. We need to come together on a vote before EoD in case the person we run up ends up claiming something other than VT.

Alstro, if you're town and you genuinely believe T3 is scum, you need to come up with a better case than "What if your assumption is wrong?" because even if we are wrong, scum!T3 doesn't ever win at end game anyway. So what exactly makes you think he's scum besides being secretive about his plan? And who else do you think is the second scum if you're wrong about T3?

[Roden]

I hammered lq though.

honestly i dont think ur maf

i just wanna kill u >:(

Wow a lot to respond to but I'm going to start by tossing out maybe it doesn't make sense for the doc to CC unless we are pitting Mo against someone, etc. Mo has fakeclaimed PR as town in prior games, or it could be scum!Mo trying to fish out the doctor. The way for scum to save this, I think, is to find the doctor to kill both the PRs ASAP. If Mo is actually doctor, well, I don't think it made sense to claim at all, but Mo's meta adds enough WIFOM that I'm dubious.

tl;dr: if Mo is fakeclaiming doc I don't think that's enough for doc to CC because he has done this as town and would just draw out the actual doc for a nk

stop talking bout my claim and move on.

if im not doc, real doc can evaulate im actually fakeclaiming either as town or scum.

its nai and no point of talking bout it. if scum believe im doc, they just kill me assuming no STUPID cc will come out the way.

just dont focus on it and give scum more info. just please. move on.

i just die tonight rip

Why do you always post the scummiest things possible when trying to gain town cred?

[Roden]

I don't think prolonging the day has gotten us anywhere. We need to come together on a vote before EoD in case the person we run up ends up claiming something other than VT.

Alstro, if you're town and you genuinely believe T3 is scum, you need to come up with a better case than "What if your assumption is wrong?" because even if we are wrong, scum!T3 doesn't ever win at end game anyway. So what exactly makes you think he's scum besides being secretive about his plan? And who else do you think is the second scum if you're wrong about T3?

Alright, I'm sleep-deprived so maybe saying too much, but here's another hint-eroo regarding my earlier posts. Recent conversation offers evidence to readers that my first hypothesis (T3 setting up for endgame) is more likely.

I have said multiple times that my main PoE pool is T3 and Egix. Thus I would most like to move to Egix if not T3. However, again as I have said before, T3 and LQ's interactions on Day 1 can come off as SvS and distancing, especially with the hammer once it was a foregone conclusion that LQ was going to get eliminated.

I'm not sure what the evidence is.

I can see what you mean about T3, but he also could've tied it up and convinced you or panicked someone on Margot's wagon to vote his way to avoid a no-elim. If he's scum then he has me pocketed as well, so he should've felt pretty safe saving LQ. I just think it would've been really easy to mis-elim Margot if he's scum.

Mafia not killing anyone is worse than them killing a VT. It's not logical for them to take that risk.

Are you suggesting that Scum will not used their NK if we do this strategy?

No. I'm saying that scum going for Tracker in a 50/50 nk/kill tracker isn't worth it if it fails.

Plus I don't think scum says this publicly to their scum buddy and then go for the play they just said was bad.

[Roden]

Shit, sorry Alstro, that was my worst case scenario. I genuinely thought T3 was Doc. I still don't think he's scum since he could've easily saved LQ but this complicates things now.

The reason I thought T3 was Doc was that he seemed to know what column we were in and felt confident we had a Tracker. When night came and no kill happened, he was basically conftown at that point. I've seen Doctors do this strat before, and since he tends to draw suspicion I thought he was using that to his advantage to bait scum into keeping him alive longer.

Egix is part of my PoE too so I don't have a problem moving my vote over to him.

VOTE: Egix

[Roden]

I legit thought that Roden was Doctor and didn't say anything because I was afraid I would end up outting the doctor, but I was wrong on that end.

I was trying to soft it as well to protect T3 lol. I actually expected to die tonight since I could have feasibly been the Doc and looked more townie than him.

[Roden]

rip. i tried to save u alstro. u should have let me claim honestly -- i would have made everyone pivot of u

Didn't want to say anything yesterday, but if you're town, scum would've already known that you weren't Doc since we know your slot wasn't online at all during Night 1. Regardless I'm not sure why you'd expect scum to buy that you'd openly claim Doc for no reason?

[Roden]

This whole affair has definitely given me pause w.r.t. T3 and Roden tho, as I pivoted off you both assuming that at least one of you was Doc

I pushed LQ for most of Day 1. I also made it clear I thought T3 was Doc and would've just killed him on Night 1 if I was scum. For me to be scum I'd have to bus my Rolecop partner and then target the Tracker even though I assumed we had a Doc, which just doesn't make sense for scum!me to do.

I still don't think it's T3 but I kinda hope Ythan tracked him instead of Grandpa in case I've been hard throwing all game.

[Roden]

rip. i tried to save u alstro. u should have let me claim honestly -- i would have made everyone pivot of u

Didn't want to say anything yesterday, but if you're town, scum would've already known that you weren't Doc since we know your slot wasn't online at all during Night 1. Regardless I'm not sure why you'd expect scum to buy that you'd openly claim Doc for no reason?

what

so im confirmed town from ur pov? because i wasnt online during the night ?

Grandpa please read my posts. I said it was impossible for you to be Doc, I don't know how you interpreted that as you being conftown.

[Roden]

Also yeah Ythan's N1 track was basically a no result since Clasko never even logged in that night. That's also why Grandpa couldn't be Doc.

[Roden]

Ok fine I'll just claim so we can get T3/Roden to play the game!! I am tracker, im gonna go for the night so i will probs re read game tmr afternoon or smh after work

Anyway.

[Roden]

What if roden is scum though

What if roden is scum though

smh i called roden scum but no one listend and just said they were town with the interactions before hand.

Why do I keep having to restate that it literally can't be me? T3 dies N1 if it's me because I thought he was Doc. This is also why I don't think it's Strange because he kills either T3 or me N1, since he prodded the both of us the most into trying to make us explain what we were doing and assumed we were softing a Doc claim. And I don't think it makes sense for T3 to be scum because of the case I presented earlier.

Day 2 after Alstro claimed my PoE was Egix/Grandpa, but with Egix's green flip and Grandpa cleared by the Tracker, it only leaves Margot for me since I don't think Strange or T3 targets the Tracker slot N1. T3 possibly could have just no killed I guess, but I never no kill N1 and neither does Strange since we both saw Doc softs.

[Roden]

I don't understand the point of voting me T3. You know you'd already be dead if it was me.

VOTE: Margot

[Roden]

Grandpa why do you think Margot is town? Do you think he tries to NK the Tracker N1 if he believes I softed Doctor?

[Roden]

Grandpa why do you think Margot is town? Do you think he tries to NK the Tracker N1 if he believes I softed Doctor?

By he I mean Strange.

[Roden]

Should I just post intent to hammer? I don't think it makes sense for Strange to be scum here, but I don't think I can convince you guys on my logic wrt the NK and I want to avoid a no-elim.

[Roden]

I'll try to review your thoughts on that again but don't wait longer than you're comfortable if you can't be here right up to the deadline.

Oh right I'm not voting. I'll be around.

I should be available up until the deadline, voting at the last couple hours just isn't ideal.

[Roden]

I'll hammer in the morning if Ythan doesn't beat me to it.

[Roden]

Final call of intent to hammer. Gonna do it in about twenty minutes.

[Roden]

VOTE: Strange

[Roden]

Ok, to start off: Grandpa, just so you know, scum can't hammer to win this unless you vote or town self votes. So please don't vote unless you intend to hammer, and please nobody self vote.

Second thing I want to say is that a no-elim will be pointless since scum just kills Grandpa tonight and then we go to final three. We can't even try to cause a draw/tie. So we have to elim somebody today.

[Roden]

I think it's probably T3, but open to other suggestions

The only other suggestion from your point of view is me.

oh come on
i think it's roden

What happened to town locking me?

And can you explain the logic behind this? I've already explained why it can't be me, and no one has disputed it.

[Roden]

I know I'm not conftown, but basic logic should make it clear I'm about as close to that as you can get without a mechanical confirmation.

[Roden]

I'm also kind of stunned at how low energy this game has been since d1. Half the other games I've been looking at have this many posts by n1 lol

Yeah it's been a pretty slow game. Which, now that we're in a MeLo situation, makes sense in retrospect since scum knew they were in a good enough spot to not have to make waves in order to survive. From my point of view, I don't have a 100% confident read on either of you since you were the opposing wagon to scum on Day 1 and I hard defended T3 all game, and you both voted LQ Day 1. LQ's elim was clearly a bus at this point, but idk if it was from you distancing from LQ or T3 hammering to get town cred.

I want to hear from Grandpa before I say anything else.

[Roden]

btw I got the idea for the claims from newbie 2075

newbie 2075

Where it was pushed by another scum lol

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12928402

Are you fucking kidding me

It was just another gambit the whole time lmao

[Roden]

Ok but T3 why soft Doc like that?? If you're town it potentially fucks over the Tracker, and if you're scum it becomes obvious when you don't die N1. Which, well, you didn't. We got lucky we actually had a Doc this game but you literally had no way of knowing unless you knew hat column we were in.

[Roden]

Gonna ISO dive T3 again now that I know what his actual plan was. After the true Doc reveal I thought he was just fake-softing the whole time, but this is something else entirely.

[Roden]

If anyone says Tracker should claim and then specifically mentions a Doc, it implies a Follow The Cop strat.

[Roden]

I've been saying this for awhile now? Why are you surprised now?

[Roden]

BTW if there is a tracker you should claim now.

Why?

If there's no Tracker then we play normally. If there is a Tracker then if there's a Jailkweper they should Jail the Tracker. If there's a FN they should target the Tracker. If there's a Doctor they should protect the Tracker.
Once day 2 hapens we massclaim.
If Doctor/FN is run up to E-1 then just claim 'PR'.

Mafias don't know if there's a FN or a Doctor.

How is this not a Doc soft? Why would I not think you were Doc here?

[Roden]

I think you'll just see as the game goes on. I'm sensing a spicy T3 play and scum might not be happy starting Day 2.

Okay you saying this implies that you

want

tracker to claim d1 f1? If thats true, what do u think the benefit actually is in claiming tracker d1 f1?

I can't answer this unfortunately.

Yep Roden is locktown.
SOUL MASONS

Okey dokey, here is where I am at.

I am getting strong town sense from Margot, contrary to what some others have said. It seems like she is really trying to sort -- some internal back and forth is good. I really liked 53 although I didn't check the math. It reads to me like a newbie who is really determined to put in the work.

Hockey is a town lean for me, though I disagree with the argument in 94 that withholding information is

always

anti-town. If someone is trying to bait a trap or is an investigation role who doesn't want to share results until they have a guilty, etc, there are some cases where that's good to hold back. If T3 was trying to do a spicy town play, which is totally T3, then not spelling out the details is beneficial. But the way that he's making his argument reads town, even if I disagree with it. Although I just realized it could be scum trying to get info on what the play is. Still not enough to change my read though.

T3 is probably town for the exact reason that Hockey outlined -- it's a huge gambit for scum to do right out the gate, so it seems unlikely.

Roden is null. 77 struck me as weird as well, but I don't see why scum would town lock T3 after that risky play. Then again, he then went on to walk back that town lock in 91.

Clasko and Egix are null.

The Astra slot is a sliiiiight scum lean because even with so few posts and the swift replace out, it seemed like she might have been jumping on the LQ wagon, and her RVS vote was also a wagon.

LQ -- I get a bad sense from 125. It reads a bit like complaining about getting scumread with a liiitle smidgeon of omgus, especially considering they imply that T3's gambit isn't scummy in 57 before bringing in a little more setup speculation.

The main thing that gives me pause is the very fact that LQ is a wagon already. It could be a quick and easy miselim. I also have no interest in pushing anyone to E-1 right now, so I'll leave my vote on the Astra slot for now to put a little extra fire on whoever joins in.

Roden knows exactly what is going on and he is locktown for that.

Did you think I knew you were using a strat from a completely different ongoing game?

[Roden]

I think you'll just see as the game goes on. I'm sensing a spicy T3 play and scum might not be happy starting Day 2.

Okay you saying this implies that you

want

tracker to claim d1 f1? If thats true, what do u think the benefit actually is in claiming tracker d1 f1?

I can't answer this unfortunately.

Also wanna ask SM who their two strongest elimination candidates are rn for D1, and why?
I say two, because one is most likely me which you've hinted the potential reasons for in #279 and iterating that doesn't say much.

I say Roden or you right now is my top two candidates for scum has to be you and the former is honestly better to flip than your slot. Roden elim. To me, getting some information involving the meta (of T3 and Roden) is probably more useful than eliminating you because of what some people here consider a slip.

VOTE: Roden

Even if this flips green it means we still have some sort of information, so either way I think this vote is fine.

Imagine threatening to vote a townie out because they refuse to out town power roles. This is such an overtly scummy thought process you might as well be scum claiming.

VOTE: Strange

This is the earliest I directly mention power roles wrt T3. I don't know how I can make it clearer I thought you were Doc.

[Roden]

okey
yes

How would I know about this strat though? I don't typically read ongoing games that I'm not a part of.

[Roden]

I'm leaning towards Margot at this point since T3's ISO does add up with his explained thought process. He's also been gradually mistrusting of me which feels natural.

I wanted to vote Margot yesterday because of N1 scum actions not adding up for anyone but her and I'm still pretty sure I'm right about that. The only thing that gives me pause is that T3 could've chosen to no-kill N1, but I'm fairly certain he never directly targets the Tracker N1 because his plan relied on the chance of there being a Doc regardless of his alignment.

[Roden]

VOTE: Margot

I think this is just it. I really don't wanna lose because we didn't follow the logic that pointed to her just because of AtE. Unless your analysis brings up something damning about T3, I don't want to change my vote. I've reread the game so many times now and I just don't see what other info we could possibly analyze. I've asked all the questions I can think of and there's just nothing left to discuss at this point.

I'm really sorry if it isn't you Margot, I just think T3's most likely town here.

[Roden]

I do think it's possible T3 is scum, but his thought process here is similar to what I've seen in his past town games. Grandpa ultimately has the final word though since he's the only one that can hammer. If he thinks it's T3 I'm completely open to hearing his case, since I'm never gonna live this down if we fuck up at the end after such a strong D1.

This is my only active game atm so it's got my full attention.

[Roden]

I really need Grandpa to start posting, I'm starting to doubt myself and we're already halfway to deadline.

[Roden]

If Grandpa ghosts us after making us wait four days for actual content and analysis I'm gonna scream.

[Roden]

Oof, ok, that's understandable.

[Roden]

I do think it's possible T3 is scum, but his thought process here is similar to what I've seen in his past town games. Grandpa ultimately has the final word though since he's the only one that can hammer. If he thinks it's T3 I'm completely open to hearing his case, since I'm never gonna live this down if we fuck up at the end after such a strong D1.

This is my only active game atm so it's got my full attention.

can u explain that process/

It's because he went for a gambit with the intention to help town, regardless of whether or not he actually helped town. T3's gambits tend to help the opposite alignment of his own, since he doesn't ever tell people what his gambits actually are until they've already happened. It isn't a hard meta tell, but I don't think I'm saying anything that's incorrect.

[Roden]

If anyone says Tracker should claim and then specifically mentions a Doc, it implies a Follow The Cop strat.

I've been saying this for awhile now? Why are you surprised now?

If I softed doc I genuinely don't remember
What how is that a doc soft

BTW if there is a tracker you should claim now.

Why?

If there's no Tracker then we play normally. If there is a Tracker then if there's a Jailkweper they should Jail the Tracker. If there's a FN they should target the Tracker. If there's a Doctor they should protect the Tracker.
Once day 2 hapens we massclaim.
If Doctor/FN is run up to E-1 then just claim 'PR'.

Mafias don't know if there's a FN or a Doctor.

How is this not a Doc soft? Why would I not think you were Doc here?

I think you'll just see as the game goes on. I'm sensing a spicy T3 play and scum might not be happy starting Day 2.

Okay you saying this implies that you

want

tracker to claim d1 f1? If thats true, what do u think the benefit actually is in claiming tracker d1 f1?

I can't answer this unfortunately.

Yep Roden is locktown.
SOUL MASONS

Okey dokey, here is where I am at.

I am getting strong town sense from Margot, contrary to what some others have said. It seems like she is really trying to sort -- some internal back and forth is good. I really liked 53 although I didn't check the math. It reads to me like a newbie who is really determined to put in the work.

Hockey is a town lean for me, though I disagree with the argument in 94 that withholding information is

always

anti-town. If someone is trying to bait a trap or is an investigation role who doesn't want to share results until they have a guilty, etc, there are some cases where that's good to hold back. If T3 was trying to do a spicy town play, which is totally T3, then not spelling out the details is beneficial. But the way that he's making his argument reads town, even if I disagree with it. Although I just realized it could be scum trying to get info on what the play is. Still not enough to change my read though.

T3 is probably town for the exact reason that Hockey outlined -- it's a huge gambit for scum to do right out the gate, so it seems unlikely.

Roden is null. 77 struck me as weird as well, but I don't see why scum would town lock T3 after that risky play. Then again, he then went on to walk back that town lock in 91.

Clasko and Egix are null.

The Astra slot is a sliiiiight scum lean because even with so few posts and the swift replace out, it seemed like she might have been jumping on the LQ wagon, and her RVS vote was also a wagon.

LQ -- I get a bad sense from 125. It reads a bit like complaining about getting scumread with a liiitle smidgeon of omgus, especially considering they imply that T3's gambit isn't scummy in 57 before bringing in a little more setup speculation.

The main thing that gives me pause is the very fact that LQ is a wagon already. It could be a quick and easy miselim. I also have no interest in pushing anyone to E-1 right now, so I'll leave my vote on the Astra slot for now to put a little extra fire on whoever joins in.

Roden knows exactly what is going on and he is locktown for that.

Did you think I knew you were using a strat from a completely different ongoing game?

okey
yes

I think you'll just see as the game goes on. I'm sensing a spicy T3 play and scum might not be happy starting Day 2.

Okay you saying this implies that you

want

tracker to claim d1 f1? If thats true, what do u think the benefit actually is in claiming tracker d1 f1?

I can't answer this unfortunately.

Also wanna ask SM who their two strongest elimination candidates are rn for D1, and why?
I say two, because one is most likely me which you've hinted the potential reasons for in #279 and iterating that doesn't say much.

I say Roden or you right now is my top two candidates for scum has to be you and the former is honestly better to flip than your slot. Roden elim. To me, getting some information involving the meta (of T3 and Roden) is probably more useful than eliminating you because of what some people here consider a slip.

VOTE: Roden

Even if this flips green it means we still have some sort of information, so either way I think this vote is fine.

Imagine threatening to vote a townie out because they refuse to out town power roles. This is such an overtly scummy thought process you might as well be scum claiming.

VOTE: Strange

This is the earliest I directly mention power roles wrt T3. I don't know how I can make it clearer I thought you were Doc.

okey
yes

How would I know about this strat though? I don't typically read ongoing games that I'm not a part of.

I thought you were like "hmmmmmm yes where did t3 get this strat and he won't say why
*looks at ongoing game'*
ok must be town"
VOTE: margot

what happened to this @roden?

Nothing, this just felt like a genuine explanation of his thought process, so I had nothing left to say there.

[Roden]

Grandpa, if T3 is scum then do you believe he no-killed N1? Or do you think he targeted the Tracker?

For me, in the world where T3 is scum I think he'd have to no-kill. Assuming his explanation of his gambit is a lie, he would've known that I thought he was Doc, so if anyone but him died then that would tip me off that he was scum. In this scenario, that is exactly why he's adamant in saying that he didn't realize I thought he was Doc, because that would make me question what happened on N1. Which...actually makes a lot of sense.

[Roden]

I do think it's possible T3 is scum, but his thought process here is similar to what I've seen in his past town games. Grandpa ultimately has the final word though since he's the only one that can hammer. If he thinks it's T3 I'm completely open to hearing his case, since I'm never gonna live this down if we fuck up at the end after such a strong D1.

This is my only active game atm so it's got my full attention.

can u explain that process/

It's because he went for a gambit with the intention to help town, regardless of whether or not he actually helped town. T3's gambits tend to help the opposite alignment of his own, since he doesn't ever tell people what his gambits actually are until they've already happened. It isn't a hard meta tell, but I don't think I'm saying anything that's incorrect.

what did t3 do to help town. margot did more and actually pushed the lq vote while t3 kept flipping if lq was town or scum. they say they had bad vibes > then townread them > then scumread them > then townread them and hammer them

That's the thing, the gambit didn't really work. I don't think he helped town much, but I think if he's town then it was just him making a mistake.

[Roden]

Honestly I just get bad vibes from LQ.
PROTECTIVE SHOULD ALWAYS BE ON TH TRACKER

how did u know there was tracker atp in the game? i dont believe tracker claimed. did u have tmi that tracker was in the game? + protective

This reminds me a lot of something that pinged me earlier but idk if I just misread it.

Why?

If there's no Tracker then we play normally. If there is a Tracker then if there's a Jailkweper they should Jail the Tracker. If there's a FN they should target the Tracker. If there's a Doctor they should protect the Tracker.
Once day 2 hapens we massclaim.
If Doctor/FN is run up to E-1 then just claim 'PR'.

When I ISO dived him earlier this made me pause and think it was possibly a perspective slip about knowing we're in Column 2. But when I checked the set up chart I realized Jailer + Tracker is actually Column 1. At Day 1 though this is what played a big part in me thinking he was Doc since he seemed to be informed.

[Roden]

Why do you think I'm doubting myself the longer this goes on?

[Roden]

Honestly I just get bad vibes from LQ.
PROTECTIVE SHOULD ALWAYS BE ON TH TRACKER

how did u know there was tracker atp in the game? i dont believe tracker claimed. did u have tmi that tracker was in the game? + protective

This reminds me a lot of something that pinged me earlier but idk if I just misread it.

Why?

If there's no Tracker then we play normally. If there is a Tracker then if there's a Jailkweper they should Jail the Tracker. If there's a FN they should target the Tracker. If there's a Doctor they should protect the Tracker.
Once day 2 hapens we massclaim.
If Doctor/FN is run up to E-1 then just claim 'PR'.

When I ISO dived him earlier this made me pause and think it was possibly a perspective slip about knowing we're in Column 2. But when I checked the set up chart I realized Jailer + Tracker is actually Column 1. At Day 1 though this is what played a big part in me thinking he was Doc since he seemed to be informed.

What do you think of this Grandpa?

[Roden]

T3, why aren't you saying anything against Margot's case on you?

[Roden]

Oof.

[Roden]

One day left. What are we doing?

[Roden]

Fuck it, I think Grandpa's probably just right. Margot's fighting way too hard and T3's too disengaged at this point.

VOTE: T3

[Roden]

Oh my God, we're gonna miss the deadline. Grandpa wasted an entire fucking week just to no-elim.

[Roden]

We can request a fast night at least.

I have no idea why Grandpa never voted T3 if he thought it was him though.

[Roden]

Nothing has effectively changed, Grandpa just made this take longer than it had to

[Roden]

Do you guys have any final cases to make before I vote? I really don't want to make this last another week.

[Roden]

VOTE: T3

[Roden]

This was excruciating

[Roden]

GG, sorry for bussing you LQ but you got hit hard towards the end. Btw, I actually did take the risk N1 and shot the Tracker.

[Roden]

100% sure T3 would’ve been the miselim in ELO no matter what so there’s that.

Not saying it can’t but right now it definitely doesn’t prove your point LQ.

That's why I kept hard defending him all game. After losing LQ D1 I especially needed to bring T3 to end game. It's also why I hammered you D3 since I needed you gone.

100% sure T3 would’ve been the miselim in ELO no matter what so there’s that.

Not saying it can’t but right now it definitely doesn’t prove your point LQ.

eh not true

i could have swayed margot to vote roden with me

It would've been difficult, all three of you town read me and nobody really seemed to have a case on me. But I also kept pushing a narrative that made it hard to push me.

[Roden]

pain

thank you Penguin for picking up modding, and thanks for playing everyone!

Agreed, thanks Penguin, and GG everyone.

[Roden]

Also would've helped a lot more if it wasn't specifically GrandpaMo who said it. And if anyone isn't informed, GrandpaMo has had a history of claiming PR as VT so yeah it was kind of ruined by its own circumstances.

Yeah this is definitely true. I was pretty sure Grandpa was just VT because of this, but his slot was also offline N1 so it was an impossible gambit to pull off unfortunately.

[Roden]

gg's wp to Roden, game was fun to spec, sorry for having to replace out.

1 thing tho, idk why Roden was being mass tr'd in that f4 lol. I found Margot townier than Roden but again, I would probs condemed t3 there so lol.

Thanks Penguin for modding!

Roden started off getting super TR because I distanced with Roden well. It's about the only thing I'm good at as Scum. That's a trade secret that I am telling you because this is a newbie game and it's good for Site Meta health for players to get better.

This is absolutely true, I don't think I can state it enough how important it was that it genuinely looked like LQ was trying to argue with me and convince me to vote his way.

[Roden]

I'm interested in the dead PT too