Mini Theme 1629: Guardians of the Galaxy II - Game Over

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prodge.

Sorry about recent activity levels, I have an assignment due in on Tuesday so been trying to get that finished.

[Titus]

Ghostlin, I have a theory that D1 wagons are rarely all town. Hence why I want to look there?

@All, Seriously, Jingle comes in and says he was attacked and y'all believe him?

There are many different reasons an attack fails.

First, scum are blocked.
Second, Doc heal with an actual doctor.
Third, someone in jail.
Fourth, Someone else attacked and had their own ability.
Fifth, scum no killed to townfirm Jingle and set up my slot given it was inactive.


This ignores major concerns.

First, claiming Doctor inhood to net a scum. This requires Jingle to start with the supposition scum are idiots and his neighbor lacked such an ability.

Second, Jingle's claim had I am bp written all the fuck over it. TJ barely posted if at all when Jingle claimed.

fyi my slot is a perfect slot to try and kill for those who like the gamestate. Just saying.

[Ghostlin]

Also, I stand by my comment about neighborhoods. With five hoods, all mutually exclusive, none larger than three, the only way there's two scum in any of them is if it's multiball or a SK is involved. There's no reason to suspect either of those.

This doesn't just apply to ABR and I. I would regard all remaining members of any neighborhood that has had a scum flip to be Town, barring any evidence of multiscum

You know, I'm going to do this in a game I'd mod so I can get the joy out of watching town lose to the bullshit theories of, 'the mod would never do that.' Then I'm going to spend the after game rubbing their faces in it.

Because it is bullshit, it uses mechanics over actual scum hunting and some of you are using it as clearing theory already why person X cannot be with person Y. Just because someone has a neighborhood QT doesn't mean it has to get used or that it's always optimal.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote Jingle

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nah.

Unvote, vote Walp

Titus can we lynch Walp.

[Ghostlin]

Unvote, vote Jingle

Nah.

Unvote, vote Walp

Titus can we lynch Walp.

Why are we doing this?

Here's a better, follow up question for you and Pine: besides the wagon company, is there ANY reason on this planet why you won't vote for massive? What's the counter-case, so to speak?

[Titus]

I want Jingle first.

Ghostlin, I do not see massive scum. At all.

[Titus]

Why did you dayvig so early ABR?

[Pine]

Also, I stand by my comment about neighborhoods. With five hoods, all mutually exclusive, none larger than three, the only way there's two scum in any of them is if it's multiball or a SK is involved. There's no reason to suspect either of those.

This doesn't just apply to ABR and I. I would regard all remaining members of any neighborhood that has had a scum flip to be Town, barring any evidence of multiscum

Please, mods everywhere, set all neighborhoods on fire and never put them in games again. Thank you.

This was a public service announcement.

Agreed, but that doesn't make what I said untrue

Unvote, vote Jingle

Nah.

Unvote, vote Walp

Titus can we lynch Walp.

Why are we doing this?

Here's a better, follow up question for you and Pine: besides the wagon company, is there ANY reason on this planet why you won't vote for massive? What's the counter-case, so to speak?

I don't see a counter case, but neither do I see a decent scum case. He's been pretty useless, but that's null

[Pine]

Jingle, I just skimmed back through Wal's ISO and my D1 comments on him

My case on Wal revolves around a lot of manipulative and misrepresentative behavior, which you've conveniently forgotten to mention in your self-aggrandizing urge to shout "Argument from repetition"

He's not scum just because I said so; there is and always has been solid reasoning behind the case. Go back through Wal's ISO, practically every post is an attempt to maneuver or nudge people into thinking in a pre-set manner. He shuts down others' independent thoughts and promulgates his own version of events. In our neighborhood (ABR can back this up) he's downright coercive, first trying to tell us how day talk hoods are destructive and shouldn't be trusted, then instructing us to sheep his reads behind the scenes.

Wal is scum. The only reason it looks like I've been arguing the same case repetitively is that he's lurked the entire day to try and stay under the radar

[Pine]

And again, fuck you. I'm trying to support a family by working my ass off. Just because I don't have hours to devote to putting together a pretty, pages-long case does not mean I'm less dedicated to the game. I've already made all of these arguments, and my allocation of time is not subject to your pouting whim

[Albert B. Rampage]

Wal is scum. The only reason it looks like I've been arguing the same case repetitively is that he's lurked the entire day to try and stay under the radar

This is true. Town should vote for Walp.

[Pine]

Jingle, come up with a good reason to think Walp is Town.

Any reason.

I'll wait.

[Pine]

Oh, and you were giving me a hard time for white knighting? You're doing it for Wal

The difference is, I have very good and explained reasons for mine, and am willing to question my Townreads when they act scummily

[Jingle]

Ghostlin, I have a theory that D1 wagons are rarely all town. Hence why I want to look there?

@All, Seriously, Jingle comes in and says he was attacked and y'all believe him?

There are many different reasons an attack fails.

First, scum are blocked.
Second, Doc heal with an actual doctor.
Third, someone in jail.
Fourth, Someone else attacked and had their own ability.
Fifth, scum no killed to townfirm Jingle and set up my slot given it was inactive.


This ignores major concerns.

First, claiming Doctor inhood to net a scum. This requires Jingle to start with the supposition scum are idiots and his neighbor lacked such an ability.

Second, Jingle's claim had I am bp written all the fuck over it. TJ barely posted if at all when Jingle claimed.

fyi my slot is a perfect slot to try and kill for those who like the gamestate. Just saying.

You're ignoring the fact that as a bodyguard lynching me is retarded. I WILL NOT MAKE IT TO LYLO.

I need to do work in a bit, so you guys'll have to wait for more.

[Titus]

I have made it great stretches as an actual bodyguard.

The only way you are not making it to lylo is if you are lynched.

[Walpurgisnacht]

Wal is scum. The only reason it looks like I've been arguing the same case repetitively is that he's lurked the entire day to try and stay under the radar

I addressed this already within the past couple pages. Is there a problem with my explanation?

-Ank

[Pine]

The fact that it isn't really an explanation

[Aronis]

~~~~~

Votecount 2.91

~~~~~

Jingle - 2 - Sorceror Madness - Titus
massive - 4 - Walpurgisnacht - Ghostlin - Jingle - DrippingGoofball
DrippingGoofball - 2 - massive - BlueBloodedToffee
Walpurgisnacht - 2 - Pine - Albert B. Rampage

No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - ika

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends in (expired on 2015-01-06 01:15:01)

Mod Notes: N/A
Prods: Sorceror Madness - massive
V/LA: N/A

~~~~~

Events

~~~~~

Day 1 Starts | Day 1 Ends
Day 2 Starts | davesaz Dies

[Titus]

link Ank?

[Walpurgisnacht]

I posted it here:

I agree that Wal's D2 play is nowhere near as strong as their D1 play.

But, their D1 play was strong enough that I'm not interested in lynching them toDay.

pieguy has been on vacation for the entire day phase and he had always had a better picture of the game on day 1 than I had. We'll likely be more active and synced when he returns (during the night or early day 3 is probable).

-Ank

I apparently didn't mention then that pieguy was my anchor in this game, so him vanishing from the game combined with my biggest scumread flipping town completely threw me off for a long time.

-Ank

[Jingle]

Jingle, I just skimmed back through Wal's ISO and my D1 comments on him

My case on Wal revolves around a lot of manipulative and misrepresentative behavior, which you've conveniently forgotten to mention in your self-aggrandizing urge to shout "Argument from repetition"

He's not scum just because I said so; there is and always has been solid reasoning behind the case. Go back through Wal's ISO, practically every post is an attempt to maneuver or nudge people into thinking in a pre-set manner. He shuts down others' independent thoughts and promulgates his own version of events. In our neighborhood (ABR can back this up) he's downright coercive, first trying to tell us how day talk hoods are destructive and shouldn't be trusted, then instructing us to sheep his reads behind the scenes.

Wal is scum. The only reason it looks like I've been arguing the same case repetitively is that he's lurked the entire day to try and stay under the radar

Hey so, I realize that your time is more important than mine and that you have a life and all that other shit that I frankly don't care about, but you actually didn't do what I asked you to, so congrats.

Why is Wal scum? Specifically, which posts make you so sure he's scum?

You see that post, where I ask you for which posts make him scum? Well, I'm asking which posts make him scum. I'm frankly not picky about how you go about that. You can give me an example using quote tags. You can give me post numbers in post tags. You can directly quote words he said and I'll control F his iso. You can paraphrase what he's said in your neighborhood. Hell, I don't give a shit if you send ABR a morse code message through your PT and have him translate.

An ATE about how you have a busy life is in no way one of those things, so you fuck right off.

ABR, can you explain what he means by wal being manipulative in the PT?

As for a Wal post that seems town to me?

UNVOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

This is the biggest scumread we both agree on.

General post-sync reads:

Town:
Ghostlin
Sorceror Madness
Albert B Rampage
Jingle

We agree the above are town and we're against lynching any of them today.

Conflicted (Town):
BlueBloodedToffee: Pieguy has a townread on BBT and most of my issues with him are isolated enough that I'm fine with keeping it on the backburner and seeing if the issues keep cropping up.
Pine: Pieguy has a townread on him while I'm getting a nulltown read more leaning null than town. His D2 play is town enough to make up for his D1 play in my eyes.

Conflicted (Scum):
DrippingGoofBall: Pieguy has a scumread on her. I find her to be completely unreadable this day phase, but I remember finding some of her stuff in D1 scummy and other parts more town. The only way she'd be on my lynch list today barring shenanigans is a compromise lynch, so basically not happening.
ika: Pieguy has a scumread on him. I remember we originally townread him, but the reasoning was very tentative and that has long since gone stale.
Jester: Pieguy has a scumread on him. I think the reasons people think he's scum are ridiculous, so I'm not convinced about his alignment by a longshot.

Scum:
Massive

-Ank

I can see the thought processes that lead to all of the conflicted reads. I can understand, if not agree, why someone could think this. I see no manipulation. I see nothing to indicate scum to me. Combine that with the fact that you haven't actually done anything to convince me...

[Jingle]

I have made it great stretches as an actual bodyguard.

The only way you are not making it to lylo is if you are lynched.

I'm glad to see you filled your prescription for extra strength stupid pills.

The argument here is that as a bodyguard, I could make it all the way to LYLO. That's pretty much insane. If at any point, we have a PR claim, I'd have to have my scumteam avoid shooting them in order to keep my claim believable. If you think I'm dumb enough to pull some shit like that on a risky gambit as scum, you really don't know me as well as I thought you did.

Even if you do believe that I'm gonna make it to LYLO, that doesn't explain why you should lynch me on D2. Unless of course, you're scum. I suppose we can figure that one out tomorrow.

[Sorcerer Madness]

Responding to prod.

Also, in terms of walp, I also would like to see the posts where walp is manipulative.

[Pine]

It's almost 4AM and I have to be to work at 9, but hey, insomnia. So you get what you've asked for.

The Ravagers Neighborhood has caught up to my replacement (there's almost a week of silence in it)

Neighborhood reinforces my read on Walmart. Everything I read from them comes off as manipulative. They keep pestering ABR and Kise to discuss stuff there, to push their own opinions. En they come around with a warning about how day talk Neighborhoods often implode into Town vs Town suspicion, and provide examples from other games. What? So you're trying to use the hood for discussion, and when that doesn't work, you undermine it's use? Nah. I'll probably be voting for Walrus when I finish catchup

This is one of the biggest misreps I've ever seen. The warning about day talk neighborhoods imploding town was the first thing even discussed in the neighborhood. Then I posted one post asking them for their opinion on the Kise/Ghostlin exchange, which was answered around the same time that Kise asked for clarification on the neighborhood explosion point. The point itself had been made before any attempt to use the neighborhood happened.

-Ank

First of all, you're right. The unreliability of Neighborhoods was mentioned early. Second, the first point is irrelevant. The fact that you're pushing them as unreliable while still trying to blithely use them for sidebar discussion indicates that you're saying one thing and then doing another. Third, after seeking to engage in these sidebars in posts 11 & 12 you mention other games where Neighborhoods were counterproductive...then go right back to trying to rally Kise and ABR against Ghostlin

My comments lacked sophistication in explanation, but they were far from misrepresentative

Much of my "manipulation" vibes come from our Neighborhood, which the rules prohibit me from quoting directly. The above is a good summary and interaction about our Hood though.

Okay, this is just a skim-through-ISO-with-the-Q+-button summary. Out of context, they don't really tell the whole story, which is another reason why just quoting stuff makes less sense to me than explaining. As a whole, these posts generally serve to push other peoples' views towards the ones Wal wants them to be at and they undercut or discredit views he's not trying to push. This would be pretty normal, but there's a disconnect between the reads Wal is pushing himself, and the ones he's promoting/discouraging elsewhere. He'll snub Townviews that don't have anything to do with his objectives, and question scumreads that don't necessarily disagree with him or affect him at all. He also displays a two-headed approach to Neighborhoods (constantly decrying their use as scummy, then turning about and starting conversations about reads in ours.) I also spotted some coaching of DGB in there that I'd missed before. It looks like he's pissed that DGB is doing the lurk scum routine.

Again, these really need to be read in context in order for it all to come together. Do a partial reread of the first 15-20 pages, paying particular attention to the Monkeyman wagon. That's really where I first picked it up.

Spoiler:

re: Kise

I'm not thrilled that Kise didn't engage further

I left an opportunity for someone who noticed/you to do so. Why didn't you engage him on this? You picked up the same thing as me but are quick to run and fault me instead of pursuing an open door.

I 100% agree with Ghostlin about this. you're essentially saying you think MM is suspicious, but aren't ~actually~ scum hunting him and instead want other people to do it for you.

plus, if you're going to ignore someone, it makes absolutely 0 fucking sense to call someone else out for..... doing the same thing and attacking you instead. and I don't even see what you think is scummy about him faulting you

this seems like scum addressing a town player, in all honesty; trying to discredit someone attacking them in order to make them look worse

Kise, if you thought MM was shifty, suspicious, etc from that interaction, why do you still have what seems to be a reason-less bullshit vote on Sorcerer? And if it isn't a random, reason-less bullshit vote, why do you have it there?

I kinda mentioned in one of my other posts that I wanted someone else to step up and dig in MM's ass (and mine). I believe that if I voted MM at that time, it would have been too influential; too easy to piggyback/bus.

A Monkey lynch is a very likely possibility though so don't count your chickens before they hatch.

(is that how the saying goes?)

the bolded line is just....... ugh. this kind of cheeky taunt is something I see coming from scum way more than town. there really is no reason for town to take this kind of potshot at another player

the other problem is I don't ~actually~ know what fault Kise has with Ghostlin's actual posts, as opposed to just the idea that Ghostlin is attacking him as opposed to MM. I really don't like how he keeps saying there was "no follow up" with the way Ghostlin handled this situation - it's pretty fucking obvious Ghostlin calling them out for it was his method of trying to interact over it - and I don't even see what in literally anything else he is pointing out is scummy.

Ank and I haven't convened about this yet, but from what I can tell he has the exact opposite opinion. will figure that out later

So judging a person's alignment without thoroughly reading their reasoning and coming to a premature, faulty conclusion is town?

that is not at all what I am saying

town are more likely to react in a fluid and immediate manner when they think they notice someone BS'ing. it's not about the reasoning or the conclusion, it's about SM's thought process. it is obvious that he didn't connect your 104 to what you said, and, from HIS POV, I can see why he would call you out on it and I think the way he did it looked town

what is your read on SM? if you don't have a scum read on him, I don't get what the purpose of this statement is.

The "everyone's got a neighborhood" mechanic is, I think, leaving a lot of information hidden. It will be very interesting when we get someone up towards lynch, how much the "neighborhood reads" will start coming into play in terms of players defending each other.

It's also interesting because it's curtailing a lot of the interaction that we'd normally see in-thread. "I'll probably sort him out in the neighborhood," etc.

I want to propose a universal ban on the bolded, actually.

if you have something to say and it's something you can say in the game thread, say it in the fucking game thread

His posts aren't very insightful but he's relatively new(Aug join date) so he could be newbie town. I have stronger scum reads on other players.(you, DGB, Jester).

wait, so you DROPPED the scumread on me entirely? (and I'm assuming you had one based on how you claimed I was misrep'ing you)

so given that you claimed I was outright misrep'ing/twisting your words around, what did DGB and Jester, who are both giant lurkfucks, do to make them stronger scum reads than me?

the idea there was that I thought your reasoning for DGB-scum was faked, which would indicate it's coming from scum

it has absolutely nothing to do with whether you're the victim of being mislynched or not

I have literally 0 idea why you would post that, except to attempt to give yourself towncred.

Oh for fuck's sake, Pie, you played an entire game with me and you KNOW I am on-site for about eight hours a day and away on the weekends. You had no issues with my posting regimen in that game .. but then again, you were scum there.

The game has been open a whopping FOUR WHOLE DAYS. There are plenty of people not contributing reads. Singling me out because?

errrr no

it is not about how often you are posting, or able to post

it is about what you are posting while you have been here. iirc, in that game, despite being overall inactive and not being able to post much, the posts you *did* make had content in them and were generally relevant. however, in this game, the majority of your first few posts were you explaining away why you didn't have any content, as opposed to actually giving it.

moreover, when I pointed out some problems I had with your posting, you completely ignored it. you still haven't answered anything I pointed out in 214.

I don't know the motive. Aren't I right to question it? I get it in every game and I really should make a spreadsheet, or make notes in my wiki page, about whether that person ended up scum or not.

this is exactly what I'm talking about. you're talking as much about how you always get called for lurking in every game as you are about your actual thoughts on the game.

My point is that, to me, I voted when I woke up and read the thread. There was no flow, and even if you believed in flow, I don't know I'd call one vote a flow. Trying to tie me to DGB seems absurd to me, so I'm trying to figure out the motive behind doing so.

"flow-going" is just a general term

the idea is exactly what I said; trying to take the least objectionable action as often as possible, and not do anything controversial, in order to avoid taking heat

and I'm not really trying to "tie" you to DGB per se. this is a scumtell that solely applies to you

I like that you misread the post so that makes my post bad. Way to cover yourself...bravo.

also, if you supposedly are no longer scum reading me, a post like this shouldn't exist

I'm noting this because it feels like what you're really doing here is just taking potshots at everyone who is voting/wagoning you in order to discredit them, as opposed to legitimately forming reads. you've been way too defensive and have mostly just tried to discredit as many people as possible instead of engaging with them, and the way you're handling me has been inconsistent with your read on me - which is scum behavior

Dance with me ABR. Why is that one point is enough to turn aside whatever reasoning you had for MonkeyMan scum (unexplained to my knowledge), which was enough to tunnel on it for the entire day?

-Ank

He over-represents mundane things to give it a spin in his favor. He OMGUS. He's defensive. He bandwagoned Kise out of nowhere. I think he's scum for sure.

lmao

and I don't even fucking know what to make of DGB

she spends the entire game WK'ing MM, but then flip flops based on that one post (which admittedly is a pretty bad post, but it was definitely not the first)? it also happens to come at a point where MM might not get lynched.

another question, @DGB: if you supposedly hate neighborhoods so much, why do you think "lack of engagement" in a neighborhood is a scum tell?

pieguy's been on vacation this entire time and I've been having trouble getting my foot back in the game. I'll get reads out hopefully tomorrow, but MM flipping town and Pine doing things that make my read on him falter is giving me a lot of pause every time I try to make sense of what's going on.

-Ank

Other reads:

Ghostlin is very town.
Jingle is a distraction.
Massive is scumlean. I played with him before as town and I don't get the same feeling from him at all this game.
Sorc is townlean.
DGB is certified derptown.

As an addendum to my BBT read: I really hate this post.

-Ank

Talk to me Titus.

Do you think this is my scumgame?

-Ank