Micro 152 - BSG Mafia (Galactica Survives?)

[buldermar]

I'll explain either if anyone else is interested, but I'm not doing shit for you.

May I ask what purpose you were trying to convey with that quote-wall?

Laziness.

[buldermar]

I just forgot to delete the irrelevant part.

[buldermar]

By the time SD entered the thread hadn't my bandwagon already softened? The thread was choppy with other bandwagons.

Thread momentum here is not as big a factor as I'm used to, but it's still a factor.

I guess it was.

[buldermar]

But does this line of questioning actually lead anywhere? Do you really think as scum I wouldn't WIFOM the shit out of this or just blatantly make things up?

Should we?

[buldermar]

I THINK SHE'S THE MOST TOWN OUT OF YOU THREE. THEREFORE THE TOWN READ. WHAT CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

Wait, you have a town read on a player you put in your scum pile?

[buldermar]

Lol, and I'm meant to be the insulting one?

Initially. I'll admit that I'm now returning the favor.

[buldermar]

The fact that bulder for example, quotes and doesn't even both trimming them to what is relevant to what he is responding to shows he doesn't really care about anything other than his post count and making them look busy.

No it doesn't - it shows that I'm sometime forgetful and/or lazy. Why the fuck would I care about my post count?

[buldermar]

terrible opportunistic vote to get the pressure away from himself

safety ain't taking this seriously and is possibly town, a fellow troll can spot an amigo.

You can't possibly have been following the game and still refer to her as him.

[buldermar]

guys, don't lynch him

Your sources tell you he's town, Nero?

lol

[buldermar]

Buld: put him to l-1 or give me your reasons why you aren't

I've been drinking wine and I still have unread posts in this thread.

wine-laced stream of consciousness. Thread needs more drunkposting.

You know that old philosophical question: "if a tree in the forest falls and nobody is around, does it still make a sound?"? I've been thinking... If a man speaks his mind and no woman is around, is he still wrong?

[buldermar]

In your case? yes.

Touché. But I was just about to say you're town!

[buldermar]

That's just the wine talking.

I almost made a joke about liking my wine the way I like my women. Then I realized the joke could get me modkilled ;(

[buldermar]

I googled that and you should be ashamed of yourself.

haha... Shame and wine does not easily get along!

[buldermar]

I wonder what the record is for highest D1 page count in a micro game is.

I imagine that we're getting close.

[buldermar]

When I drunkpost everyone's all lynchy and serious. It's not fair.

Start drinking. Watching you and buldermar drunk post at each other would totally be worth it.

I've done my part.

You feeling okay, fery?

I realized that I could use this game to try out a tell.

So far, in every game I played, if a person drunk posts, they've been town.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coincidence

[buldermar]

Morning fery.

Of all the nicks/abbrevs of my account name I like this one best.

From now on I will refer to as

girl

.

[buldermar]

I'm hoping to get some content from delta soon.

[buldermar]

That's what Obama says too.

[buldermar]

meh.

no content.

What do you think of your company on my bandwagon, buldermar?

Can you be more specific?

[buldermar]

fferyllt [3/5] -

Deltabacon, Nero

, buldermar

We both know that's not what I meant with more specific, girl.

[buldermar]

Morning fery.

Of all the nicks/abbrevs of my account name I like this one best.

From now on I will refer to as

girl

.

That's mean.

Is it? I thought it was cute. You are a girl, aren't you?

[buldermar]

fferyllt [3/5] -

Deltabacon, Nero

, buldermar

We both know that's not what I meant with more specific, girl.

The question is mostly a data point gathering device. I would be having certain thoughts about the composition of this bandwagon if I were part of it. It's also a touchpoint for self-gauging my current level of objectivity.

I wish I had some brilliant thought to share but I don't.

[buldermar]

Morning fery.

Of all the nicks/abbrevs of my account name I like this one best.

From now on I will refer to as

girl

.

That's mean.

Is it? I thought it was cute. You are a girl, aren't you?

Flirting is AtE

Orly...

[buldermar]

I unvoted when the momentum for his lynch seemed to be with me, and I knew it would seriously increase the chances of my own lynch happening today.

I disagree with this premise.

[buldermar]

In fact, I unvoted expecting to be today's lynch though I am constitutionally unable to just accept that and not fight it even when I think my cardflip sooner rather than later would help town.

This is some elaborate fence-sitting that's advantageous for you as scum because it allows you to act pro-town by advocating your own lynch for the better of town while still in reality fighting it.

[buldermar]

His arguments all seem come down to "scum-fferyllt might do anything, no matter how apparently anti-scum" when I argue that I wouldn't do something inherently anti-scum if I were scum.

All I'm saying is that you can't use self-meta as an indicator of your alignment.

[buldermar]

This was the post where I thought it sounded like he knew I was town. I can see myself posting something similar to someone. And I can't imagine not putting the phrase "If you are town" in there somewhere.

If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll self-vote after I have one last chance to interact with buldermar. If I'm wrong about him, I'll retract my scum read before I flip.

I don't often lecture you, but in this situation I'd say that self-voting is considerably anti-town as you effectively deprive town some information that could have been obtained from vote analysis.

I'm off to bed soon, but I'll respond to every question you may have as detailed as possible when I wake up.

And here's his counter-argument. It boils down to "statistically you're probably town". That seems weak.

If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll self-vote after I have one last chance to interact with buldermar. If I'm wrong about him, I'll retract my scum read before I flip.

I don't often lecture you, but in this situation I'd say that self-voting is considerably anti-town as you effectively deprive town some information that could have been obtained from vote analysis.

I'm off to bed soon, but I'll respond to every question you may have as detailed as possible when I wake up.

It's carefully worded, but there's an assumption in here that I'd be moved by the argument that self-voting would deprive town of information.

I think that's assumption that I'm town.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Even if you're by far the scummiest person in this game it would be extreme if I thought that you'd be more likely to flip scum than town statistically speaking. You know this, and you know I know this, but you conveniently ignore it because you also know that most people just think in absolute terms of "either scum or town", i.e., many people mistakingly think that because someone is more scummy than someone else on day one, that person is also more likely to be scum than town.

That being said, I'm pointing out that you're acting inherently anti-town which, should you turn out to be town, would be something in your game that you can improve on.

No, it does not "boil down" to that. Read the last sentence.

I think discussing this with you is a waste of time at this point. You're obviously going to insist in your perspective if you're scum and if you're town you really should have read me clearly as town by now.

[buldermar]

In fact, I unvoted expecting to be today's lynch though I am constitutionally unable to just accept that and not fight it even when I think my cardflip sooner rather than later would help town.

This is some elaborate fence-sitting that's advantageous for you as scum because it allows you to act pro-town by advocating your own lynch for the better of town while still in reality fighting it.

I don't know what I'll do when push comes to shove. I have self-voted in the past when I thought my situation or my role indicated it was better for town if I were out of the game. In one case, I did that and it probably lost the game for town two days later, so I'm more cautious now than in the past. No matter how snake-bitten I may appear to be as town. As scum, I have tactically self-voted a few times with no intention of keeping my vote on myself. My self-voting prior to when it matters won't tell much about my alignment.

A majority-lynch mechanic is different from what I'm used to, and self-votes have a totally different impact from the type of games I've played elsewhere.

Okay, I'll ask you so that we get a clear answer. If you're getting to L-1 and there is no appropriate counter-wagon, and if both of orc and I agrees that you should be todays lynch, would you self-vote? Yes or no.

[buldermar]

Yes, in your second post after I called you out on the implicit assumption in your first post, you said "should you turn out to be town".

I have to go back through this. It's at the root of my uncertainties about you. After I got past the WKing I still had this, along with your apparently not getting that a Kara Thrace safe claim should not have been wasted on a VT role claim. In one post, it looked like you were even arguing that I'd claimed a power role.

I don't have any flavor knowledge at all, but I know on theoretical grounds alone that you can't use it as an argument for being town. I believe I've pointed out why at least three times already - don't make me do it again.

Please do point out in what post I was arguing that you had claimed a power role and additionally, regardless of whether or not you succesfully pull such post out of your little scum-hat, explain to me why it should be indicative of alignment in the first place.

[buldermar]

In fact, I unvoted expecting to be today's lynch though I am constitutionally unable to just accept that and not fight it even when I think my cardflip sooner rather than later would help town.

This is some elaborate fence-sitting that's advantageous for you as scum because it allows you to act pro-town by advocating your own lynch for the better of town while still in reality fighting it.

I don't know what I'll do when push comes to shove. I have self-voted in the past when I thought my situation or my role indicated it was better for town if I were out of the game. In one case, I did that and it probably lost the game for town two days later, so I'm more cautious now than in the past. No matter how snake-bitten I may appear to be as town. As scum, I have tactically self-voted a few times with no intention of keeping my vote on myself. My self-voting prior to when it matters won't tell much about my alignment.

A majority-lynch mechanic is different from what I'm used to, and self-votes have a totally different impact from the type of games I've played elsewhere.

Okay, I'll ask you so that we get a clear answer. If you're getting to L-1 and there is no appropriate counter-wagon, and if both of orc and I agrees that you should be todays lynch, would you self-vote? Yes or no.

Right now, your agreement would be irrelevant. If orcinus thinks I should self-hammer and I think I should self-hammer I absolutely will. If he doesn't and I think I should, I don't know what I'll do, yet.

Yeah see you're still fence-sitting like crazy because you can just pull the last minut "I don't think I should self-hammer" stunt and claim that you never said you would. Thus, it's utterly useless with respect to your alignment.

[buldermar]

I'm trying to search for other games where you've lectured someone about self-voting. I keep getting a gateway time-out. :/

Please do - also make sure to read all of the games in which I explain the difference between arguing from a global vantage point and arguing from a local vantage point, as you still seem not to fully grasp that concept.

[buldermar]

No, it does not "boil down" to that. Read the last sentence.

I think discussing this with you is a waste of time at this point. You're obviously going to insist in your perspective if you're scum and if you're town you really should have read me clearly as town by now.

Why would I have dropped it in the first place if I were scum? You can try to handwave away that I got you to L-2 in a hurry, with at least one other player having indicated they were leaning scum on you. But, there is hard evidence of that in the game thread. It was a conscious decision on my part that would increase the likelihood of my lynch.

You would have dropped it in the first place as scum because you were likely getting lynched if you didn't. But that's all besides the fact that you can't use it as an indicator of alignment when it's a decision in your hands, as I've also explained several times. I'm getting quite annoyed here.

[buldermar]

If it was so likely to increase the likelihood of your lynch as you insinuate aren't you surprised that nobody is calling me out for claiming that it isn't?

[buldermar]

Fascinating - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4651393

There's a time for self-voting - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4366255

An analysis of a self-vote that was rescinded - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4290177

I was hoping to find a a game where buldermar emphaticly told someone else that self-voting is anti-town, and to see that he didn't make any sort of "If you are town" qualification. I didn't find that. His argument to me about not self-voting doesn't quite line up with the above posts, though.

In the firts game, I promised to self-vote the following day if we lynched the person of my choice because

I knew that the person was scum with more than 90% certainty.

How the hell is that related to this situation?

In the second quote I'm stating

exactly the opposite

of what you're insinuating, namely that

you should not self-vote.

In addition, you would have known this had you read the other posts of that game regarding self-voting. For instance:

buldermar, why so much corner case theory talk and no vote?

Your statement entails self-voting being optimal under certain circumstances. Since this is wrong for this setup, me neglecting pointing it out would lead to a net utility loss from the town perspective relative to if I do point it out. I sincerely disagree that pointing something out that would lead to a decreasement in the odds of town winning if omitted qualifies as corner case theory talk.

As for the lack of vote, that's a simple one: I'm convinced that I can obtain more information during this day and thus make a more qualified estimate of peoples alignment before voting. The difference between voting person A before voting person B who gets lynched

and

not voting person A before voting person B who gets lynched is negligible when voting person A is unreasoned (as is the case with random votes). In other words, I simply prefer to postpone voting until I have preferences regarding who to lynch (i.e. until I have some information to base my vote on).

You might object that the random votes themselves is a valid method to obtain such information, and that's in my opinion reasonable. However, I think that discussion without the random votes is an equally valid and viable method.

FWIW I'd like to be proven wrong as the general consensus seems to be that RVS is a necessity.

In the final quote I also explain that self-voting is anti-town, as it's more advantageous for scum than town.

So, let's summarize this.

1) You use a game in which I already know for a fact that a player is scum. In this game, I tried to make people vote that person (and succeeded IIRC) by promising to self-vote and by proposing a signature bet (which I was subsequently banned for). In this game I make no qualification of "if you're town", so that's a blatant lie.

2) You insinuate that I'm saying "there is a time for self-voting" when I am in fact saying

the exact opposite

in the second link. I state that, in this setup, self-voting is always bad, as evident not only from that post alone but also other posts in the same game made by me on the same topic. This is another blatant lie from you.

3) In the final quote I explain precisely that self-voting is anti-town, as you claim to be hoping to find. You probably didn't read that post carefully, did you? How unfortunate to pretend to be a busy and thorough town player and then make such a subtle but significant slip.

If it isn't already obvious, consider my vote firmly placed on ff and the only reason that I am going to consider voting someone else is if there is no way she's getting lynched today.

If you don't really want to read into the games she linked, just do me a favor and read the 2nd linked post and tell me how on earth I am stating that "there is a time for self-voting" in that post.

[buldermar]

This is really the first game we've ever played where we've engaged anywhere near this much. Maybe it just takes a good serious shitfest of a game to work things out. If so, I hope one game is enough. In one case it took almost a year's worth of games before one player and I got past the day 1 sledge phase.

Maybe in our next game you wont be scum and things will be a bit easier for you.

[buldermar]

CAN WE PLEASE JUST LYNCH ff ALREADY?

[buldermar]

orc, vote ff and you can have my vote tomorrow if I'm alive.

[buldermar]

Yes, in your second post after I called you out on the implicit assumption in your first post, you said "should you turn out to be town".

I have to go back through this. It's at the root of my uncertainties about you. After I got past the WKing I still had this, along with your apparently not getting that a Kara Thrace safe claim should not have been wasted on a VT role claim. In one post, it looked like you were even arguing that I'd claimed a power role.

I don't have any flavor knowledge at all, but I know on theoretical grounds alone that you can't use it as an argument for being town. I believe I've pointed out why at least three times already - don't make me do it again.

Please do point out in what post I was arguing that you had claimed a power role and additionally, regardless of whether or not you succesfully pull such post out of your little scum-hat, explain to me why it should be indicative of alignment in the first place.

This one.

Ofc you'd use a great fake power role claim if it would keep you alive -

which is exactly what you're attempting to make it do right now.

Will read 309 tomorrow.

I'll admit that was phrased poorly, but given the context it should be quite obvious to you that what I meant is that you'd ofc use a great fake flavor role claim that's commonly attributed a power role if it would keep you alive.

[buldermar]

CAN WE PLEASE JUST LYNCH ff ALREADY?

This post looks fed up and frustrated.

That's exactly how I feel as well.

But, it does at least look like town frustration. I don't think I've ever seen someone this certain I'm scum and wrong before. Well, maybe once, but the guy had a lot of issues.

orc, vote me please, and I'll hammer.

Pls orc.

[buldermar]

We're going to need one more vote once she doesn't hammer, but it should be obvious for even the retards in this game that she's scum at that point.

[buldermar]

Yes, in your second post after I called you out on the implicit assumption in your first post, you said "should you turn out to be town".

I have to go back through this. It's at the root of my uncertainties about you. After I got past the WKing I still had this, along with your apparently not getting that a Kara Thrace safe claim should not have been wasted on a VT role claim. In one post, it looked like you were even arguing that I'd claimed a power role.

I don't have any flavor knowledge at all, but I know on theoretical grounds alone that you can't use it as an argument for being town. I believe I've pointed out why at least three times already - don't make me do it again.

Please do point out in what post I was arguing that you had claimed a power role and additionally, regardless of whether or not you succesfully pull such post out of your little scum-hat, explain to me why it should be indicative of alignment in the first place.

This one.

Ofc you'd use a great fake power role claim if it would keep you alive -

which is exactly what you're attempting to make it do right now.

Will read 309 tomorrow.

I'll admit that was phrased poorly, but given the context it should be quite obvious to you that what I meant is that you'd ofc use a great fake flavor role claim that's commonly attributed a power role if it would keep you alive.

And here you make the argument again that I would intentionally do something bad for my team if I were scum.

The first time we went through all this, that argument on your part pretty much convinced me that you had to be scum because it's not predicated on any sort of respect for my scum game. It's contemptuous of it. And it's in stark contrast to your initial arguments that I'm too valuable to d1 lynch because of my town game.

Townie outrage about being misread. I guess we both have it.

I still think you either don't or pretend to not understand the point I am trying to convey. I'd go as far as stating that because I'm making the point I'm making, I must think highly of your scum game.

[buldermar]

VOTE: fferyllt

SD next please.

what were you?

What the fuck do you mean? You must be thinking worse of her game that I suspected.

[buldermar]

Town.

It's not quite 4 am my time. If there's anything you want to talk about before nightfall, make it quick.

Yeah. What the hell were you doing with these links to my previous games?

[buldermar]

I'm trying to think of a town motivation for misrepresenting the content in that manner and I really can't.

[buldermar]

Funny that buldermar disappeared. I thought he'd have a few last questions for me too.

About this, I think contacting me on gchat to get me to post in this game while you can still post is not okay even though you're lynched. That being said, I'm going to assume that everything you've written has been honest and can be used tomorrow. If you want to change your mind on something specifically, or want to point out that you didn't mean what you wrote in any particular posts at the time you wrote them, please do so.

[buldermar]

We're going to need one more vote once she doesn't hammer, but it should be obvious for even the retards in this game that she's scum at that point.

Quoting for posterity.

If he's scum and convinced me to take myself out of the game, it will color every game interaction we have until the heat death of the universe.

I can't believe you're still seriously entertaining the idea of me being scum, but whatever.

[buldermar]

I still think you either don't or pretend to not understand the point I am trying to convey. I'd go as far as stating that because I'm making the point I'm making, I must think highly of your scum game.

If this is honest, then you have no idea what the parameters of my scum game are.

It is, so I suppose I don't.

[buldermar]

I'm trying to think of a town motivation for misrepresenting the content in that manner and I really can't.

I didn't misrepresent them IMO. I found them and linked them for players to read and make up their own minds if your advice to me was in line with your prior discussions.

So, should I have taken your earlier advice about self-hammering? Or should I have done what I said I would and you said I wouldn't - self hammer if orc agreed I should go?

Okay I am going to point out that you indeed did misrepresent them in my subsequent post.

I think that because you're VT and because I wasn't going to seriously look into the possibility of lynching anyone else it is a close call. If you put an orc-gun to my head, I'd have to say that you shouldn't have done it, even if you would have gotten lynched anyway, because we would have gotten one more vote on you to do bandwagon analysis from. And in the case that we somehow didn't, lynching someone else who actually has a possibility of being scum (as oppose to you since you're town), wouldn't have been that bad either. Worst case would be a no-lynch followed by lynching you on day 2, but that's pretty unlikely.

[buldermar]

There's a time for self-voting - viewtopic.php?p=4366255#p4366255

Read this quote carefully in addition to the one below from the same game:

buldermar, why so much corner case theory talk and no vote?

Your statement entails self-voting being optimal under certain circumstances. Since this is wrong for this setup, me neglecting pointing it out would lead to a net utility loss from the town perspective relative to if I do point it out. I sincerely disagree that pointing something out that would lead to a decreasement in the odds of town winning if omitted qualifies as corner case theory talk.

As for the lack of vote, that's a simple one: I'm convinced that I can obtain more information during this day and thus make a more qualified estimate of peoples alignment before voting. The difference between voting person A before voting person B who gets lynched

and

not voting person A before voting person B who gets lynched is negligible when voting person A is unreasoned (as is the case with random votes). In other words, I simply prefer to postpone voting until I have preferences regarding who to lynch (i.e. until I have some information to base my vote on).

You might object that the random votes themselves is a valid method to obtain such information, and that's in my opinion reasonable. However, I think that discussion without the random votes is an equally valid and viable method.

FWIW I'd like to be proven wrong as the general consensus seems to be that RVS is a necessity.

Do you really think I am arguing that there is a place for self-voting?

[buldermar]

Given that you can be reasonably sure now that you are talking to town-me, is there anything about the game from this point forward that you want to talk about?

I don't know, I kind of build up my perception of this game on the premise that you'd flip scum - at least since the last couple of pages. I'm going to have to thoroughly reread the game either today or, if I'm not nk'ed, tomorrow.

[buldermar]

We're going to need one more vote once she doesn't hammer, but it should be obvious for even the retards in this game that she's scum at that point.

Quoting for posterity.

If he's scum and convinced me to take myself out of the game, it will color every game interaction we have until the heat death of the universe.

I can't believe you're still seriously entertaining the idea of me being scum, but whatever.

I'm still flabbergasted and incredulous that town-you could misread me this badly, to the point that nothing I've posted since I put a vote on you struck you as coming from a town PoV.

There was at least one post that struck me as coming from town and I know I perhaps should have mentioned it but I was still sufficiently convinced that you were town and I didn't want to risk being mislynched over also reading a post as town while insisting on your lynch.

[buldermar]

There's a time for self-voting - viewtopic.php?p=4366255#p4366255

Read this quote carefully in addition to the one below from the same game:

buldermar, why so much corner case theory talk and no vote?

Your statement entails self-voting being optimal under certain circumstances. Since this is wrong for this setup, me neglecting pointing it out would lead to a net utility loss from the town perspective relative to if I do point it out. I sincerely disagree that pointing something out that would lead to a decreasement in the odds of town winning if omitted qualifies as corner case theory talk.

As for the lack of vote, that's a simple one: I'm convinced that I can obtain more information during this day and thus make a more qualified estimate of peoples alignment before voting. The difference between voting person A before voting person B who gets lynched

and

not voting person A before voting person B who gets lynched is negligible when voting person A is unreasoned (as is the case with random votes). In other words, I simply prefer to postpone voting until I have preferences regarding who to lynch (i.e. until I have some information to base my vote on).

You might object that the random votes themselves is a valid method to obtain such information, and that's in my opinion reasonable. However, I think that discussion without the random votes is an equally valid and viable method.

FWIW I'd like to be proven wrong as the general consensus seems to be that RVS is a necessity.

Do you really think I am arguing that there is a place for self-voting?

You argued that it was "wrong for this setup", not that it was wrong, period. But, I'll grant that my label overstated what I'd gathered from this discussion.

Well especially that part made me think that you could not possibly be misrepresenting me like this as town - especially not since you at the time didn't even think i was scum. I think there is in particular one post that I misread...

[buldermar]

I'm very apprehensive of how quickly we got to L-1 on ffery. The last few pages have been weird honestly and hard for me to read a la ffery's and buldermar's new cases. I like that buldermar at least unvoted whilst not backing down from his position, that makes him seem more town to me than anything else he's done.

Lurker and Nero just seem opportunistic to me, I'd be willing to lynch either of them until they become more open with their reads/reactions to the last couple of pages.

@Sryrana - what made you change your vote so quickly?

@Ffery - I feel like town should fight harder against their own mislynch since you're at least confirmed to yourself, no matter how great your doubts are on another town-looking mislynch. Do you think your lynch would provide the town with the most information?

Never watched BSG so I really don't get the references/significance of claiming Kara, I think that particular point is moot.

I think in general you are right about fighting mislynch. If I am all but certain to be mislynched sooner or later, then sooner may be better, especially if there's something worthwhile to be learned from the bandwagon.

LOL you pretty much confirmed yourself as scum in this post. If you were town and actually considered me scum you'd think that succesfully getting me lynched would close to confirm you as being town. However, if you're scum who pretends to be thinking that I'm scum but actually knows that I'm not you'd make

exactly

this kind of slip, knowing that

even if

you get me lynched, you'll be up next once I flip.

Please attempt to explain yourself out of this one.

VOTE: ff

[buldermar]

Town:
orcinus
Syryana

How certain are you of these? I only feel very certain about orc, but I agree that Syr is the second most town-looking player.

[buldermar]

pitoli, orc & buld are town

Which source this time?

[buldermar]

Why would buldermar act like that after you turned town?

There's absolutely no point to continue acting like town for such an extended period of time.

Why why why where is the motivation

Scum defending a lynch.


Fuck.

Act like what? I'd point out where you're wrong, but I don't even get what the fuck it is you're convinced that you're seing.

[buldermar]

Why would buldermar act like that after you turned town?

There's absolutely no point to continue acting like town for such an extended period of time.

Why why why where is the motivation

Scum defending a lynch.


Fuck.

He's obsessive about being right. Or in this case, about being justified in being wrong - i.e., it's my fault entirely that he thought I was scum. It pings for me too, but I have seen him argue long past when there's an utility in continuing in other games. It wasn't a twilight situation, though.

I don't feel like this is entirely fair. I pointed out where I think I made a critical mistake in my analysis. I do think that much of my skepticism regarding you stems from your sudden change in opinion with respect to me. I'm not insisting that it's entirely your fault that I thought you were scum.

[buldermar]

Ugh but then

The WKing is too blatant


Did Buldermar and I ever call you ideal lynch at the same time

I don't think so.

I don't think so either.

[buldermar]

Why would buldermar act like that after you turned town?

There's absolutely no point to continue acting like town for such an extended period of time.

Why why why where is the motivation

Scum defending a lynch.


Fuck.

Act like what? I'd point out where you're wrong, but I don't even get what the fuck it is you're convinced that you're seing.

Act like you were right to push the lynch, despite fery's town flip.

Well obviously given the result I wasn't right, but at the same time it is not entirely obvious to me where I should have thought differently about something, aside from maybe one or two posts that were very decisive for my opinion.

[buldermar]

ff, do you think it's unlikely that there was a scum on your wagon? I still think Nero looks bad.

[buldermar]

Why would buldermar act like that after you turned town?

There's absolutely no point to continue acting like town for such an extended period of time.

Why why why where is the motivation

Scum defending a lynch.


Fuck.

He's obsessive about being right. Or in this case, about being justified in being wrong - i.e., it's my fault entirely that he thought I was scum. It pings for me too, but I have seen him argue long past when there's an utility in continuing in other games. It wasn't a twilight situation, though.

I don't feel like this is entirely fair. I pointed out where I think I made a critical mistake in my analysis. I do think that much of my skepticism regarding you stems from your sudden change in opinion with respect to me. I'm not insisting that it's entirely your fault that I thought you were scum.

24 hour game days do not lend themselves to deliberateness. My play-style is abrupt, abrasive and mercurial because that's what it takes to sort someone quickly. Apply pressure, test, move on for now if the reaction looks town. You were the player I felt was hardest to read and most dangerous if scum. That made you a priority, and it preloaded a ton of suspicion and paranoia about you. Next game, it may not take as much to convince me because this game becomes a baseline.

One thing I've seen over and over again is that my test/sort process tends to freak players out, and the people I go after for a while often come out the other end convinced I have to be scum, esp if they have little game experience with me.

You really haven't seen this aspect of my game elsewhere. I've been on a bizarre roll for several months there. My first tests have hit scum players for several games in a row.

In one game I played with Nacho, I just decided to assume that he was town and play the game accordingly because I thought I'd be spending too much time trying to figure him out - time that could be better spent on people easier to read. Perhaps I should have just done that this game.

[buldermar]

I was trying to find a reason why he could have been killed based off his reads.

NK's relative to the reads of the killed is pure WIFOM.

[buldermar]

Miller: Gets investigated as guilty on a cop result.
Neighbor: Usually a group that can talk. Usually is T/Sk or T/Scum on rare occasions it's T/T.

Which makes me think SD is the other neighbor which maybe can explain Syr's vote on SD.

I don't follow this logic at all. Can you elaborate on it?

[buldermar]

Fery was wrong about SD.

VOTE: Pitoli

What's the logic?

[buldermar]

Excluded for undisclosed reasons [Safetydance]

Ok now I see it.

[buldermar]

Orci. From what I have seen of neighbors they are usually T/S.. Why aren't you interested in lynching SD today?

I don't think this is true.

[buldermar]

True, but could happen to WIFOM the town.

I'll check how the role has mostly been used in the past by AP if someone doesn't beat me to it. I think the more likely explanation is SD=town, though.

[buldermar]

btw i'm happy I was right about nero hah buldermar I told you so

You did -_-

[buldermar]

orc, will you explain what makes you think I'm scum?

[buldermar]

Pitoli because some of her posts aren't adding up.

I'm also cool with a Lurker lynch.

I feel like Nero was a Buldermar night-kill.

Which posts aren't adding up? How was Nero supposedly a "buldermar night-kill"?

[buldermar]

Leave Pitoli alive for now. I'm good with Lurker or Buld. Lurker over Buld.

You're just good with lynching me because mollie is sitting next to me wrongfully telling you that I'm scum in every single game I'm playing, lol. Am I wrong in asserting that you're talking to her about this game?

[buldermar]

Actually

Why would Lurker NK Nero

Ugh this night kill is really freaking weird. And I don't normally do NK analysis but...

Well, why would lurker lurk the crap out of this game and make no sense in his posts?

[buldermar]

I feel like Nero was a Buldermar night-kill.

Scum who are squarely read as town normally go for off-color night kills

I feel like this is one of them.

the uh I'll explain later

Alright.

[buldermar]

Leave Pitoli alive for now. I'm good with Lurker or Buld. Lurker over Buld.

You're just good with lynching me because mollie is sitting next to me wrongfully telling you that I'm scum in every single game I'm playing, lol. Am I wrong in asserting that you're talking to her about this game?

Whoa there

Actually

Why would Lurker NK Nero

Ugh this night kill is really freaking weird. And I don't normally do NK analysis but...

Well, why would lurker lurk the crap out of this game and make no sense in his posts?

because he's a troll?

I think I've found something, but I'm going to think a bit about it until I've made up my mind.

[buldermar]

I'm a bit busy at the moment but will attend to this game as soon as I get the chance. Sorry!

[buldermar]

Am I wrong in asserting that you're talking to her about this game?

Errr, Please don't accuse other players of cheating unless you have strong reason to believe they are. In which case please talk to me or a site mod about it.

Just noticed this and thought I should respond right away.

I did not intend to accuse her of cheating. In fact, I wasn't even aware that it would be cheating. I was asking because I know that they a) are playing as a hydra in a different game and b) are currently travelling in Canada together. I'm sorry about the misunderstanding!

[buldermar]

I could definitely see buldermar NK'ing Nero just to get rid of the irritation factor.

Which is possibly

exactly

why he was NK'ed.

[buldermar]

Don't say NK analysis is WIFOM as it bothers me when people say it. Everytime I write up a post scum always accuse of it being WIFOM to discredit it.

Well it's WIFOM whether you like it or not, so that's what I'm going to say. Are you always this quick to assume that statements or questions are accusations?

[buldermar]

'Cause I'm going to reread it later. I think.

You couldn't have come to conclusions because you were going to reread it later - that makes no sense. So what did you actually mean?

[buldermar]

30+ pages is a lot for a Day 1 and I'm busy with school

Oh, so that's why you decided to replace into this game?

[buldermar]

I do find it alarming from what I did see that Orc was WK'ing Buld and today he's okay to lynch Buld off the NK.

Orc was WK'ing me? Quote that post, please. All I recall is him reading me as town previously.

[buldermar]

Basically you voted the whole entire player list, but Buld and somewhat of SD.

He what? And even if he did, how is that WK'ing?

[buldermar]

He did not have a strong town read on Buld yet he was discrediting votes on Bul while calling them bad.

Him not having a strong town read on me does not automatically make votes one me good, lol.

[buldermar]

No. I don't live in Canada. I live in NY, but couldn't see her due to school and work.
The only games we talk about are the ones in the hydra (GoW / HB)

I never claimed you live in Canada.

[buldermar]

More because his character was in love with the blonde chick of BG which I would think would be the other neighbor

Yeah you're not reading this game at all, yet you're rambling as if you've made reads. The mod explicitly stated in the beginning of this day that flavor is randomized.

I'm probably voting you - just reading the rest of this thread before I do so.

[buldermar]

>.>

Well, fine. SD can be town for now, but I don't trust it atm. I read him wrong in every game sooo yeah.

UNVOTE: SD

You were so sure that SD could only be scum before. What changed, aside from nobody backing you up on this idea? This looks really bad to me.

[buldermar]

Nvm flavor isn't related to the game. I'm a fail. >.>

Well at least you figured this one out yourself. It still looks bad that you had not been reading this day.

[buldermar]

Gaj.

Turns out I am a male character.

I did not know that.

Gaius Baltar?

VOTE: Lurker

What's the logic?

[buldermar]

VOTE: Mala

[buldermar]

you accused me of probably cheating.

No I did not, that's your interpretation which is entirely wrong. I didn't even know that it would have been cheating, so I couldn't have accused you of such.

[buldermar]

I have no clue what the point of even making that comment unless you're pissed off about the ongoing game and sorry not my fault.

The point is that if you were discussing this game with mollie (which I at the time thought would be a perfectly fine thing to do), her read of me would affect how you perceive things in this game.

[buldermar]

You suck.
Your reads suck.
Your play suck.

If town wins, it's no thanks to you.

You should be ashamed of yourself for deploring the play of a person who isn't around to respond.

[buldermar]

Rules state you aren't allowed to discuss a game you are in unless its in a QT that's specified.

Like I said: I wasn't aware that it was against the rules at the time, so I couldn't have been accusing you of cheating.

[buldermar]

Buldermar still needs to answer for how hard he seemed to have ridden fery. Don't think he can get off lightly for 825.

I think what I state in post 825 is perfectly accurate when she's scum, which is the scenario I was talking about. What is it that you think I have to answer for with respect to this post?

[buldermar]

Hey, SD. Out of curiosity, since you claimed Nero's neighbor and all, what's your flavor role? Fery was Kara, Nero was Baltar, who're you?

This is utterly irrelevant for every aspect of the game related to actual alignment.

[buldermar]

@Buldermar: Just because I think the Nero NK makes sense coming from you doesn't mean I think you killed him (yet).

Alright, I thought that was what you were insinuating. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

[buldermar]

Kay, Buld, lets drop it as its not helping anyone.

Sure, but I do think it's important that you understand I wasn't accusing you of cheating. You accusing me of accusing you of cheating is an almost equally serious matter, as underlined by the fact that the mod explicitly commented on it. I just want to make it perfectly clear that I'm not accusing or suspecting you of cheating.

[buldermar]

Sorta. It depends. The name isn't irrelevant

Why not? If flavors are assigned randomly I struggle seing how it can be anything but irrelevant.

[buldermar]

Sorta. It depends. The name isn't irrelevant

Why not? If flavors are assigned randomly I struggle seing how it can be anything but irrelevant.

Say player x in neighbor claims batman. Player b is actually batman. Player b CC's and player x could be lynched or vice Vera so one is proven wrong/right and it either condemns or confirms the other.
Then there's the route people claim stupid names that don't even fit in with a possible character.

Why would town neighbor ever fake-claim a flavor? I don't get it.

[buldermar]

Hey, SD.

Out of curiosity

, since you claimed Nero's neighbor and all, what's your flavor role? Fery was Kara, Nero was Baltar, who're you?

This is utterly irrelevant for every aspect of the game related to actual alignment.

Read the quote, thanks. Besides, he might be a liar depending on what name he claims. Like William Adama, for example, would never be a Gaius neighbor.

I don't know the flavor aspect of this game, but I'm assuming that when flavor roles are randomly assigned it means that they're randomly assigned, i.e., any one person could be any other persons neighbor. Where am I wrong?

[buldermar]

... I hate you.

Why couldn't you use an analogy like I did? Huhuhuh?

Sometimes you have to hit buldermar over the head with things before he gets it <3

I still don't get it, though.

[buldermar]

No it's not, you were talking about her being scum in this game. You were on her lynch, you spent the good part of 250+ posts convincing her (and the rest of town) why you think she's scum, she clearly had this crazy idea that she was the only lynch candidate. How did all that happen?

Why shouldn't you be looked at? I explained already why orc can't be, if he's scum and you're town you opened that one up and are to blame. The only other person we don't know the alignment of was inactive for most of the day.

Why wouldn't I think you should take a lot of heat for it compared to the others?

Are these the questions you think I have to answer with respect to my post?

[buldermar]

I already mentioned it, based on what my own and nero's flavor name is, our character flavor is definitely not random. Alignment is another question altogether (which is irrelevant to flavor discussion)

Reminder: flavor is 100% not related to this game.

[buldermar]

FuriousFalcon is obligated to say that flavor is not related to the game. I'm personally not convinced this applies to the names of the characters.

Wait, what? How is he supposedly "obligated"? If the flavor isn't completely random as he insinuates then this is by definition a bastard game since he's then been deliberately misinforming us.

@Mod: is this a bastard game?

[buldermar]

Bah, that came out poorly. I don't think this is a bastard game, and my apologies to AP for implying such.

Buldermar, I think there's a correlation between the role name and alignment. That's all I'm trying to say here.

There can't be if flavor is assigned randomly.

[buldermar]

I already mentioned it, based on what my own and nero's flavor name is, our character flavor is definitely not random. Alignment is another question altogether (which is irrelevant to flavor discussion)

Reminder: flavor is 100% not related to this game.

I thought you lynched fery based on her roleclaim

You filthy, filthy, filthy

What?? I've said from the beginning that I don't even know the flavor in this game lol...

[buldermar]

Lets mass claim rolenames

What do you guys think

I think it's a massive waste of time but sure, whatever makes your boat float.

[buldermar]

@Mod: is this a bastard game?

No, it is not.

To clear up any confusion, when I said flavor was unrelated I mean whatever I write for updates.

Role flavor may or may not be relevant to the game, but I will guarantee the game is not breakable by flavor.

Alright, then I misunderstood what you initially said.

I retract my comments about flavor knowledge being irrelevant.

[buldermar]

Lets mass claim rolenames

What do you guys think

Laura Roslin

Popcorn buldermar

Will do this once I've read the rest of the thread (to make sure that we're actually doing this).

[buldermar]

Lol Nero fucked SD in the neighbor QT

?

[buldermar]

.... Do you know how many shows I do watch?

Grey's, Scandal, Castle, OUAT, Chicago Fire, Survivor, The Voice, NCIS:RED(when it appears).
I'm currently watching HOUSE series.

Let's just say I once.. finished Grey's Anatomy.. 7 seasons in less than a week. >>

Kind of ironic that you'd accidentally post from your hydra with mollie, isn't it?

[buldermar]

I'm a good-looking guy named Lee Adama, I'm a prodigal son. Then there is a bunch of info about my awesome father whom I get into trouble with frequently.

[buldermar]

I was sort of going with the premise that SD had to be town. If he doesn't

have

to be town, I think he's very likely scum. I don't know the flavor related to this game so I'll just have to trust you guys (in particular you, orc) on what you conclude.

[buldermar]

Sure.

[buldermar]

am I allowed a "bah" post?

I do allow one, no content. I'll let you one more

There is no reason to worry about him posting content anyway.

[buldermar]

Can I just sheep someone?

Yes - anyone voting Mala.

[buldermar]

Buldermar: Is there any specific reason why you took so long to claim your rolename?

Did I take long to claim my rolename?

[buldermar]

Leave Pitoli alive for now. I'm good with Lurker or Buld. Lurker over Buld.

You're just good with lynching me because mollie is sitting next to me wrongfully telling you that I'm scum in every single game I'm playing, lol. Am I wrong in asserting that you're talking to her about this game?

Whoa there

Actually

Why would Lurker NK Nero

Ugh this night kill is really freaking weird. And I don't normally do NK analysis but...

Well, why would lurker lurk the crap out of this game and make no sense in his posts?

because he's a troll?

I think I've found something, but I'm going to think a bit about it until I've made up my mind.

It's weird that nobody asked me about this yet.

[buldermar]

Can I just sheep someone?

Yes - anyone voting Mala.

Dude. Why?

You being scum adds up.

[buldermar]

Leave Pitoli alive for now. I'm good with Lurker or Buld. Lurker over Buld.

You're just good with lynching me because mollie is sitting next to me wrongfully telling you that I'm scum in every single game I'm playing, lol. Am I wrong in asserting that you're talking to her about this game?

Whoa there

Actually

Why would Lurker NK Nero

Ugh this night kill is really freaking weird. And I don't normally do NK analysis but...

Well, why would lurker lurk the crap out of this game and make no sense in his posts?

because he's a troll?

I think I've found something, but I'm going to think a bit about it until I've made up my mind.

It's weird that nobody asked me about this yet.

I

did

actually.

When?

[buldermar]

Hey, bulder. What are you thinking about orcinus right now? Also Mala.

Still think orc must be town - even with him dropping in level of activity.

I havn't found a single good argument against Mala being scum. I don't like her initial reactions and statements - I think she was pretending to have read parts of the game that she at the time had not yet read, and I think she was pretending to make thoughtful reads when in fact she said some things that makes absolutely no sense.

[buldermar]

I'm giving Mala a scum lean for making weird statements, taking them back, and generally being all over the place.
But not sure if voting her while technically V/LA is alright.

Funny that you would mention this now that I've just declared my intentions of voting Mala as opposed to mentioning it at any time prior to this. And funny how similar your reason looks to the one I gave.

[buldermar]

Considering, I'm captain and main big character I don't think lynching me would be good.

I don't know shit about the flavor stuff so unless orc comes in and says it's a no-go I'm just going to disregard what you think you being this or that mean or doesn't mean.

[buldermar]

Want to explain 1058, Pit?

Wait, I thought that was your posts?

@Mod

- please make it clear which player in this game posted from pirate mollie.

[buldermar]

I said I read through ISO's, but not read the game fully. No one has given me proof that not reading the thread is a scum tell.

It is if you pretend to be reading the thread at the same time, which I think you did.

[buldermar]

Hey, bulder. What are you thinking about orcinus right now? Also Mala.

Still think orc must be town - even with him dropping in level of activity.

I havn't found a single good argument against Mala being scum. I don't like her initial reactions and statements - I think she was pretending to have read parts of the game that she at the time had not yet read, and I think she was pretending to make thoughtful reads when in fact she said some things that makes absolutely no sense.

I'll have to go back and ISO Mala. Could you do me a favor and go back and ISO orc for me? I'm starting to get suspicious of him and I want to know if you pick up on the same tells I am.

Pedit: Sorry, Mala. Lol

Sure. Just this day?

[buldermar]

Pedit: Buld, Bill Adama is the biggest baddest m-fer in the whole show. If Mala really is him, she's a town PR.

I think we made a mistake in outing flavor knowledge - I don't see how it could potentially have been helpful for town.

[buldermar]

Do you know it's a huge pet peeve of mine when someone goes I'm going to "disregard what you post" when the person who's posting is a high scum read and sometimes that is a scum tell because its like confirmation bias. I'm voting you no matter what you say and nothing will change my mind!

That's not what I said, so why are you misrepresenting me?

[buldermar]

Fuck I meant 1098.. The '9' looks like a '5' on my cracked iPhone screen.

Ok. Next time you accidentally post from the hydra account or any other account, please quote yourself with this account so that ISO'ing you is still possible.

[buldermar]

From what I've read thus far, scum-orc would be teamed with SD and attempting to set up a mislynch of me based on "Nero looks like a buldermar-kill". Also was odd to me that he suddently changed his opinion of me in the beginning of this day.

Also still would like explanation of 949.

Then 1056 he suddently feel like Nero is an SD kill - despite him initially insisting that "fery was wrong about SD".

[buldermar]

That's what I noticed from ISO'ing him - what did you have in mind?

[buldermar]

I'm giving Mala a scum lean for making weird statements, taking them back, and generally being all over the place.
But not sure if voting her while technically V/LA is alright.

Funny that you would mention this now that I've just declared my intentions of voting Mala as opposed to mentioning it at any time prior to this. And funny how similar your reason looks to the one I gave.

I was going to put my vote on her yesterday (calendar day), but I thought it was in poor taste to try to pressure/lynch someone who isn't here to defend themselves. I thought it was fine to speak up on that point after seeing more posts from Mala.

Mala, what kind of V/LA are you on that allows you to post so frequently? Why are you on V/LA at all?

So why did you not mention your read of Mala yesterday or as soon as you made it?

[buldermar]

Fuck I meant 1098.. The '9' looks like a '5' on my cracked iPhone screen.

Ok. Next time you accidentally post from the hydra account or any other account, please quote yourself with this account so that ISO'ing you is still possible.

What the actual fuck? I have a sig that has my name on it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. (On the hydra)

When I ISO someone, I want to be able to read all of that players posts in the ISO and not just most of them with a few posts not being included because they were posted from a different account. Thus, it would be very useful and convenient for me if you'd please just quote your own post the next time you accidentally post from a different account. Is it really that different or is it really too much to ask for?

[buldermar]

That's what I noticed from ISO'ing him - what did you have in mind?

Gimme a couple minutes, I'm eating.

Sure.

[buldermar]

You didn't have a problem when Orc acc slipped and never quoted it..

I'd like for him to do it too - I didn't even realize he acc slipped.

[buldermar]

I mean it's common sense that if you accidentally post from a different account, you post the same content from your actual account so that it's available when someone ISO you. I don't get why I am even having this discussion... Are you being obnoxious because I'm voting you or something?

[buldermar]

Alright, here's my beef with orc. As you said, he switched his read on both you and SD at the start of the day. He somehow figured out SD was the neighbor of Nero almost as soon as the Day started. He equally quickly blew the Nero NK onto you and off of SD, because "why would SD kill neighbor lololol". He hasn't mentioned SD since, even though SD claimed the scummiest rolename in the game thus far (Zoe Graystone was a Caprica character, not a BSG character). He scumreads pitoli and has ignored repeated requests to give out his read on her until #1085, where he gave a half-assed read based on waffling and her popcorn choice. I also really don't like his "I'm busy, sorry guys, I'll just sheep Syr". I don't buy this after his D1 frenzy with buld/fery, nor do I think town orcinus swarmed by games would just stop giving a shit about one of them. I think he's civic minded enough to replace out if that really were the case (yes it's subjective, but it's a vibe I've got). I also distrust his "syr is obvtown, I'll sheep him" because I'm a paranoid bastard.

That's in accordance with how I read it. My main issue is the fact that I really give credit to ff's reads, and she read him as town. If we pretend that he's scum, does this almost guarantee SD being his partner in your opinion?

[buldermar]

I don't understand why Orc as scum would want to suddenly stop giving a frak, I mean after Day 1 ended it looked like he had enough power to lead next day's lynch.

If you were scum-orc and you had night-killed Nero, what would you do differently?

[buldermar]

That's in accordance with how I read it. My main issue is the fact that I really give credit to ff's reads, and she read him as town. If we pretend that he's scum, does this almost guarantee SD being his partner in your opinion?

The problem with this is that fery's reads stopped yesterday. I had him as town at the end of yesterday too, but some of his latest posts have caused me to reconsider. Fery didn't have that luxury.

I feel like you should have realized this already.

Also, his partner if he is scum would be SD... or you.

I doubt that he changed alignment over night so if ff's reads were initially accurate, they necessarily must still be.

So, if SD is scum, how likely is orc to be his partner?

[buldermar]

I doubt that he changed alignment over night so if ff's reads were initially accurate, they necessarily must still be.

So, if SD is scum, how likely is orc to be his partner?

lolwot. lolWOT. LOLWOT.

So if he was town yesterday, he's town today? If fery was right about him yesterday, she's right about him today? Could you BE more banal? This whole statement of the obvious rests on the assumption fery was right and wouldn't have changed her mind about orc based on what he said today. Assuming fery's reads were right simply because she flipped town is very sloppy.

An SD scumflip implicates orc or pitoli. An orc flip would implicate SD or buldermar.

I think you're overreacting to the point I'm trying to convey. I'm well aware of the fact that she does not have the luxury of reading todays posts and adjusting her reads accordingly. In a similar vein, I trust that you're also well aware that if her reads were accurate on day 1, still are. All I'm saying is that a big part of my reason to consider orc town rests on the assumpton that ff generally speaking makes accurate reads as town.

[buldermar]

Yes Buldermar, you did take a long time to claim. You did a burst of posts...stopped halfway (never before) and then came back the next day to claim. You guys can go check it if you want

I doubt you'd be making something that is easily falsifiable up, so if you say I took long I probably did. I don't recall what exactly I was doing at the time.

[buldermar]

Also what do you mean with (never before)?

[buldermar]

If this is of importance to you I'll look into it and see if there is a way for me to show that I didn't intentionally postpone posting to get flavor knowledge from somewhere or whatever it is that you're insinuating...

[buldermar]

I would be open to a SD lynch based in everything.

I don't think we're looking at an orc-SD scum team. I also don't think orc would be as obvious about it in the beginning of the day if they were indeed teamed.

[buldermar]

What exactly is this case on mala? I'm not very good at reading right now

She pretended to have read a sufficient part of the thread to establish clear reads while it later turned out that she had not. In addition, some of her reads were total nonsense and could not possibly have been made had she read the thread. For instance, she claimed you WK'ed.

[buldermar]

Buldermar won't like this

"Reread"

You're right, I don't. I'm sure you can be more specific than that if you're actually town and you have enough time to be so.

[buldermar]

Post #1065 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:16 pm

Post #1071 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:13 pm

Buld

I'll have a look.

[buldermar]

Lets mass claim rolenames

What do you guys think

I think it's a massive waste of time but sure, whatever makes your boat float.

This is 9:16 AM my time and I had to do an assignment with my study group at 10:00 AM over Skype. Most likely I woke up, responded to some messages from my bed and realized I had to take a shower and make breakfast if I were to be ready in time (which I btw didn't manage to - I ended up eating my breakfast while talking over Skype).

[buldermar]

hi buldermar what do you think about all this

Can you please be more specific?

[buldermar]

Honestly, Pitoli/Lurker/SD go today and I feel like it's an even chance of hitting scum in all three. Just lynch through that pile until victory because you, me, and buld are all town.

I think Mala is scum with one of the remaining from the group and I think that her scum partner is more likely to be one of Pitoli and Lurker than SD.

I agree that both of Syr and you are likely town - even though I'll have to agree with Syr that you've been doing some weird shit since the onset of this day. I just don't think you're that much more likely to do it as scum than town.

[buldermar]

Oh wait malakittens

that doesn't work

let me think

Yeah, essentially this.

[buldermar]

Buld/Syr:

Who's your 'strongest' town read in pit/lurk/sd/mala

Strongest town read is SD because of Nero - unlike Mala, I'm inclined to think it is most likely T-T neighbors.

Pit looks bad for that last FoS of Mala which to me looked like a copy of what I said and pointed out in my post prior to it, and the subsequent explanation that she just didn't want to mention her read with Mala V/LA doesn't sound legit.

Lurker has just been living up to his name and not done shit the entire game. I think Lurker is not a bad bet for scum if we go by the assumption of the three of us being town.

I still like Mala for scum the most, but it does worry me a bit that she doesn't look particularly scummy to you guys. Also, maybe we should look into how often she fakeclaims VT compared to PR's as scum. I know of some people who almost always fakeclaim VT.

[buldermar]

Buld/Syr:

Who's your 'strongest' town read in pit/lurk/sd/mala

Honestly, Mala.

Why is that? You don't have to go into details, just a brief summary will do.

[buldermar]

Post #1065 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:16 pm

Post #1071 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:13 pm

Buld

Does this strike you as odd? (you sort of have to view the posts to see what i'm talking about, it's the time gap between buld read my request for a massclaim and the time when he actually posted, I find it very suspicious)

I think you're asking Syr but just in case you're not: I can see what you mean, and I can't really do much else other than maintaining that it's a coincidence and that I've stopped midway of catching up in games before (please don't ask me to find it unless you think it's super important as it might take a long time finding).

One a sidenote: do you know if AP usually provides safeclaims for scum?

[buldermar]

Both of you shhhhhh right now

We're all town here

Lurker->SD->Malakittens

Victory

Go.

Didn't you say buldermar/Lurker just a few posts ago?

[buldermar]

What exactly is your read on me because I'm just confused now

I meant that you had never stopped in the middle of a catchup before, and the one time you did just happens during flavorclaim

Maybe I havn't done it in this game before (or maybe I have, I don't recall), but I've done it in other games.

I'm going to do a bit of self-meta now - just so you're warned.
I can say that if I were scum, I'd have figured out a convincing fake flavor claim as soon as I realized that we might be doing flavor claims at some early point in the game (maybe as soon as ff started talking about how she could not be X because of Y). Additionally, if this game is based on flavor with limited amounts of available names (you can probably confirm/disconfirm this for me), the most likely scenario is that AP provided safeclaims for scum to avoided scum being caught in either lack of flavor knowledge or claiming a flavor role that someone else actually has (and if AP didn't, I'm inclined to think that's quite poor modding).

Actually, I'm going to check if it says anywhere that this game requires flavor knowledge.

[buldermar]

I can't find anything about it...

[buldermar]

What exactly is your read on me because I'm just confused now

I forgot this. I read you as town, but I think you're doing some stupid shit today... like changing your read and desired lynch every other minute.

[buldermar]

Ok I trust you

(Maybe)

I don't know if there is any other way for me to disprove your hypothesis, but if you think of something let me know.

Maybe I can provide screenshots from Skype? Is that against the rules?

[buldermar]

Not on my own laptop now, so that would have to wait anyway.

[buldermar]

Flavor is not indicative of role (Starbucks)
Flavor may be indicative of alignment (Starbucks, Gaius being a miller town)

I think that if flavor was completely unrelated to the game, AP would have said so when we asked. Thus, ruling out that it's indicative of role, it must at the very least to some extent be indicative of alignment. My guess is that it's probably to some degree indicative of alignment and maybe for a few roles also role indicative.

Is the movie/series that the flavor is based on one about good/evil or some sort of two faculties that could easily be converted to this context?

[buldermar]

What exactly is your read on me because I'm just confused now

I meant that you had never stopped in the middle of a catchup before, and the one time you did just happens during flavorclaim

Maybe I havn't done it in this game before (or maybe I have, I don't recall), but I've done it in other games.

I'm going to do a bit of self-meta now - just so you're warned.
I can say that if I were scum, I'd have figured out a convincing fake flavor claim as soon as I realized that we might be doing flavor claims at some early point in the game (maybe as soon as ff started talking about how she could not be X because of Y). Additionally, if this game is based on flavor with limited amounts of available names (you can probably confirm/disconfirm this for me), the most likely scenario is that AP provided safeclaims for scum to avoided scum being caught in either lack of flavor knowledge or claiming a flavor role that someone else actually has (and if AP didn't, I'm inclined to think that's quite poor modding).

Actually, I'm going to check if it says anywhere that this game requires flavor knowledge.

This is eerily similar to Fery's post on her claim...

I know, but it's the best I can do. If you have a better idea let me know. I can do the screenshot thing of Skype if it's possible when I get home and if it's not against the rules.

[buldermar]

Apparently, I'm also scummy for claiming VT?.. When I didn't claim VT or claim anything, but my character name? Buld, wtf does me having to claim VT have to do with anything in the past as scum?

Yeah that was a brain-malfunction on my part. I was mixing up flavor and actual claims and was thinking that because your flavor indicates PR (I think someone suggested this), it would be useful to check if you have previously mainly fake-claimed VT roles (or the equivalent flavor) or also PR's in the past. Makes sense?

[buldermar]

Yeah lol scum

VOTE: mala

I was about to ask you to explain your vote. Then I realized it actually doesn't matter.

[buldermar]

Buld is a town read, but him bringing up a point I made in a mafia QT is alarming especially when it's not currently relevant at this point since I didn't claim anything.

What point did I bring up?

[buldermar]

I still like Mala for scum the most, but it does worry me a bit that she doesn't look particularly scummy to you guys. Also, maybe we should look into how often she fakeclaims VT compared to PR's as scum. I know of some people who almost always fakeclaim VT.

This.

I explained this already:

Apparently, I'm also scummy for claiming VT?.. When I didn't claim VT or claim anything, but my character name? Buld, wtf does me having to claim VT have to do with anything in the past as scum?

Yeah that was a brain-malfunction on my part. I was mixing up flavor and actual claims and was thinking that because your flavor indicates PR (I think someone suggested this), it would be useful to check if you have previously mainly fake-claimed VT roles (or the equivalent flavor) or also PR's in the past. Makes sense?

[buldermar]

What did you say in a scum game? I don't even understand what you're insinuating.

[buldermar]

Don't pretend. Remember the game that you didn't appear in the scum QT for two nights in a row? The night you did I thought I was possible SK bait and threw meta at you. What you said above is what I brought up.

Yes I remember that game. I didn't realize that what I said is what you brought up, though. Do you recall exactly what you said?

[buldermar]

Also, you can't possibly think I'm pretending while having a town read on me - that makes absolutely no sense.

[buldermar]

I have it!!! I have it I have it I have it!

I know who the scum are.

Look at the following list and you all tell me if you see it too.

Player List:

buldermar - Lee Adama
fferyllt - Kara Thrace (dead/confirmed)
Nero - Gaius Baltar (dead/confirmed)
Sotty7 (now SD) - Zoe Graystone
pitoli - Karl "Helo" Agathon
Lurker - Saul Tigh
Syryana - Galen Tyrol
orcinus - Laura Roslin
Deltabacon (now Malakittens) - William Adama

Two people on that list are lying about their flavor. Can you figure out which two?

No?

[buldermar]

You know what

I don't care anymore.

Pitoli, Syryana, Buldermar: Let's town bloc and lynch our way through the remaining player list. I have strong town reads on all three of you and if I am wrong, I will gladly take all the blame for the game's loss. I don't think I am though.

I'll think about this, but I really don't care about the blame part.

[buldermar]

Where oh where has my buldermar gone, oh where oh where can he be?

I wanna know if he sees what I see

I told you I don't know jack shit about the flavor part...

[buldermar]

One thing I noticed.. There is certainly an abundance of Main characters in claims.

The secret is actually more basic than that. Keep looking!

Pedit: Because you don't need BSG knowledge to figure out what the lie is.

I'll have another look I guess.

[buldermar]

I see my name being similar to Malakittens - that's about it.

[buldermar]

I'll give you a hint. We're lynching pitoli today.

Hmm, 3rd look time.

[buldermar]

Gender related? I have no clue.

[buldermar]

1) As far as I'm concerned, you/ffery/buldermar yesterday was nearly a voting bloc.

?? What???

[buldermar]

Syr stop teasing and tell us what the fuck it is...

[buldermar]

Very well. I'm tired, so I'll be brief.

The scum are pitoli and orcinus. They're the only ones whose flavor claims don't match their genders.

For this to be the case, AP would have had to look into genders before distributing flavor roles...

[buldermar]

Hi Buldermar, talk to me about where the lynch is going today

I don't know where the lynch is going today?

[buldermar]

Very well. I'm tired, so I'll be brief.

The scum are pitoli and orcinus. They're the only ones whose flavor claims don't match their genders.

For this to be the case, AP would have had to look into genders before distributing flavor roles...

Perhaps, but I find it hard to shrug off as coincidence the fact that 2 of the 9 don't match up when there are 2 scum.

I find it hard to believe that AP would do something like this.

[buldermar]

*shrug*

I'd prefer a Lurker lynch to Mala.

Pedit: You replaced in. Your predecessor was male.

I'd prefer Mala, but I can go along with Lurker too if need be.

[buldermar]

So anyone want to present a case to why I'm a good lynch. Still don't see it.

Don't look at me, you're not on my hate-list.

I went over it already, I'm not going to repeat myself.

[buldermar]

Right. I am on Page 42. 10 pages, it's just like day one all over again. Let's do this.

Do you put a lot of thought into your insults or do they sort of just come to you?

[buldermar]

OH MY FUCKING GOD.

S-A-R-C-A-S-M. DO YOU UNDERSTAND IT? DO.YOU.UNDERSTAND E-N-G-L-I-S-H?

Holy fuck I can not believe you are all so retarded. That was never a legitimate flavor-claim, I had just said I wasn't going to claim it in the present situation so what the fuck would make you think that was serious.

I mean holy fuck, it's a character from Caprica. THIS IS ABOUT BATTLESTAR GALATICA.

If any of you are town you should be ashamed at this level of denseness.

LOOK!

I don't know either of Caprica or BSG.

In other words, go fuck yourself you waste of human life.

[buldermar]

I recommend we just ignore SD altogether. I'm pretty sure he's town so we may as well just consider him a neutral survivor with the ability of insulting people.

[buldermar]

I dismantled it yet, but you're still trying to cling to it even though its all a bunch of bullshit. Don't bitch when I flip town and go 'I told you so'.

Anyways I was asking for someone else's other then yours.. Such as Orc or even Pit. Sorry to break it to you, but not everything is about you.

You didn't dismantle anything with respect to my reasons for voting you.

[buldermar]

Hey SD, please refrain from posting - you're filling the thread with needless spam and it's difficult for the rest of us to read the actual content.

Herp derp derp

Thanks.

[buldermar]

Buld.. You shouldn't be talking. You come out with your own snark or insults.

I was obviously being sarcastic (at least I thought it was obvious).

[buldermar]

Look guys

Lynching through Lurker>Malak>SD wins us the game

If we lynch SD we might have to read less of his posts

VOTE: SD

If I didn't care about winning I'd be all over lynching him, but I don't think he's the best lynch. Can't you just ignore his posts like I do?

[buldermar]

You're lining up lynches which is a scum-tell imo.

What? It's not a scum tell when it's coming from someone who clearly has had enough and just wants the day to end (which I'm fairly certain is actually the case).

[buldermar]

You're lining up lynches which is a scum-tell imo. Lurker is a much better vote and lynch overall because he's scummy as all fuck due to not contributing anything worthwhile for two days now.

Why is lining up lynches a scumtell?
why is lurking "scummy as all fuck"--lurking seems like a policy lynch, not SD

ok we can do this now

Syryana/Buldermar/Pitoli lynch this shit

I'm already on mala, but Syr read mala as town IIRC.

[buldermar]

Lurker is a policy lynch today for the same reason he was a policy lynch yesterday

Lurker is worth keeping both of you because he doesn't talk so I don't have to reply to so many posts by scum.

SD is not a policy lynch because I have a scumcase on him.

SD is not a "much better lynch than lurker" do not put words in my mouth. Like I said, I don't care who I lynch today, as long as its in SD/Lurker/you.

But after that I just want to lynch you.

Congrats

Idk I'm kind of thinking maybe Lurker isn't such a bad lynch for today since Mala is far more likely to slip.

Actually, I'd fine with either of Lurker or Mala - your call.

[buldermar]

You have only played with me once besides this game. So how exactly are you scum reading me again? When you have never played with a scum-me? You don't know how a scum me would act.

"You don't know how a scum me would act".. seriously? wtf?

[buldermar]

2). Accept that you're scummy as town and that you're a bad player

In all fairness, I think this is a silly argument to make as well. There is no objective scale on which you can measure scumminess.

[buldermar]

Not contradictory because you DO NOT know how I would act as scum because you have only played with me as town.

You will be wrong again this game just as your tunneling on Day 1 on Mastin and I didn't help the town and then you CC'ing me when I stopped a bloody kill because you thought I fake claimed and did a no kill to confirm myself.

You're again wrong in regards to me(again), but you are too fucking arrogant to admit it yet (again).

Oh I believe I used meta as a defense that game too.

No, I'm not nervous at all. I'm trying to get you to stop tunneling and actually direct your attention to lynching scum you fucking moron. (Yes, I'm pissed because I fucking hate it when I'm not listened too)

P-edit: Go fuck yourself. With that in mind I'm walking away for now.

This actually looks town to me.

[buldermar]

VOTE: SafetyDance

Let me know when it's Day 3. I am so incredibly done with this game right now.

?

[buldermar]

Grumpy OMGUS over.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lurker

UNVOTE:

I'll mirror this vote once orc is back and I know if he's in support of lynching Lurker as well.

[buldermar]

Yeah I can dig a lurker lynch

Wait for him to claim though

He's only at L-2 atm right?

[buldermar]

Oh right..