Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[petapan]

"Fateful Duel"

Event Rules

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Decision 3.0.5

unwnd [3]:

Gamma Emerald, Dwlee99, Saber

Ydrasse [2]:

petapan, Ydrasse

petapan [2]:

Taly, Toogeloo

Not Voting [7]:

ulyana, SirCakez, Gypyx, Dunnstral, skitter30, Infinity 324, unwnd

With 14 contestants remaining, it takes 8 votes to nominate a duelist.
The contestant with the second-most votes at majority or deadline will also be nominated. Plurality and seniority are in effect for both nominations.

The deadline for this decision is in:

(expired on 2021-10-19 17:07:18)

[/mech]

Now playing..

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Tia - Deal with the devil

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▶ ❚❚ ────●──────────────────────────  0:41 / 4:44

                       

I haven't been paying attention to Ydra this game.

So I started skimming and I lean town, and here's why:

I think Ydrasse as mafia will start the game off strong but over time lose drive, and then you realize their posting is just fluffy but not filled with very hard analysis

In this game I don't see the falling off or the fluffy

I think Ydrasse as mafia will start the game off strong but over time lose drive, and then you realize their posting is just fluffy but not filled with very hard analysis

do you think this description of your expectation of scum!ydrasse lines up with taly’s play this game? and would you have a similar expectation of scum!taly?

I don't know how to read taly, no I wouldn't have a similar expectation, that's just for ydrasse.

point 1 on Ydrasse: this read from Dunn came at a moment when I was pushing her a little bit and she'd self voted. it was an oddly detailed read from him.

alone by itself, you can really squint and see it either way, if you look at it.

but let's try to piece together a bigger picture of how the scumteam treated ydrasse

this right here is him coming in and randomly defending someone when he contributed not much to the game at all. does he think he can actually take the heat off Ydrasse with this? probably not. on its own if i had to guess i'd say this is a TMI read

[petapan]

From his perspective as well as in general those 3 aren’t great so far
Peta’s kinda felt reactive
Prism’s desire to be acquitted was a little skeevy and his reaction to being sussed was to claim joke which while technically valid doesn’t negate what actual tangible game thoughts he displayed with his joke
Ydrasse trying to jump in on the pockit fun felt a little overwrought

it feels like ur trying to frame this more from like, the perspective of validating pooky instead of stuff /you/ believe in even though you're able 2 espouse these reasons

like clearly you think these things

you think we're scummy 2 some degree

but it sort of wraps around to pooky being scummy because... ?

very strange mental gymnastics

I liked Ydrasse for being the first to point this out, I had very similar thoughts with regards to what Gamma was doing with his script.

VOTE: ulyana
I feel like she's dispassionate and disconnected from the game in a way that she wasn't in radio buzz as rousseau, but somewhat reminds me of what I remember tracy flick being like in student council

Without looking at meta I disagree with this read

then you're probably evil too because I think what I'm seeing should be plainly obvious if you even glance at ulyana's ISO or just pay attention to what she says as you read up
and this is a different brand of obviousness than what I was throwing around before, that's was like a bright flame to me, this is like a strong current of a river

Probably evil

seems strong for someone simply disagreeing with a read of yours. Are any of Infinity, skitter, of Ydrasse probably evil for disagreeing?

The strength of Gamma's reads feel very off. Dunnstral is probably evil for disagreeing with his ulyana read, but skitter, Ydrasse, and Infinity aren't because they're pretty much 'locked in' as town?

I'm finding this mental rock climbing hard to believe.

@Saber: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

As for my reads:
Taly
skitter petapan
Ydrasse Infinity
Gamma Toogeloo Cephrir
SirCakez Dunnstral Dwlee
Galron

Maybe something like this. By the way, I won't be free much this weekend but I will return with spoils of war.

I'm not interested in voting for Ydrasse or Gypyx. I don't like Infinity voting for Gypyx on the basis Gamma contestant means Prism more likely to be a stagehand.

Infinity, you've made this assumption twice now that the people pushing Gamma the most are more likely to be a stagehand now that Gamma is probably a contestant - first with me, and now with Prism. The problem with that is the fact stagehands knew how the chair in the first phase would work, and that it comes with a heavy risk of the chaired person simply OMGUS executing their pusher.

I'm sure stagehand Prism would have some more reservations of pushing Gamma so aggressively had she considered this factor, which I'm sure she would've.

Reading Ydrasse as a contestant because most of her frustration seems to stem from the fact that she's outraged that stagehand-unwnd thought she would be an easy misexecution to push this game because she's apathetic. Her pushing back at that and righteously stating 'she won't be rolled over' and 'you picked the wrong person to pick a fight with' comes from a really contestant perspective.

point 2: this is basically every thing Saber says about ydrasse. There were some minor interactions that were basically nothing, them fooling around, i didn't find it meaningful so i cut it. then there was some attacking Infinity when Infinity scumread Saber for her ydrasse read, but it wasn't really

about

Ydrasse (god I wish I'd noticed how much OMGUS this was).

anyway, again we have scum making an oddly confident townread on Ydrasse and sticking with it. The second one was after Ydrasse snapped back at unwnd and people started reading her as town so i can go either way.

the first post is before ydrasse was pressured but it's agreeing with her on the gamma read

i guess if i'm being honest the townread and defense on very little, slotting her in as a townread but a tier below skitter is maybe +scum here in a vacuum

[petapan]

but now for the meaty stuff, skitter on ydrasse

(also ydra feels kinda off but i'd feel a little bad poking there too much atm so uh just gonna wait and see if her wim comes back soon-ish as it isn't a Critical part of the game just yet).

little bit of early shade, the absolute lightest touch

Shockingly my reads are mostly aligned with skitter's, minus Ydrasse who is a townlean and maybe Dwlee who is solidly null for me.

My reasoning differs on Gamma, who I'm voting for like three different reasons. (Scrambling to hit tonal bases early, read on Dwlee, reactions to pushes)

oh gamma's dwlee vote was bad too, i forgot abt that
why is ydrasse a townlean?

questioning prism about her read on ydrasse. not really sure i feel anything on this, scum can ask people about their read on anyone, sometimes it's a generic scum thing to call people's townreads on your partners bad but not attack your partners, would be kind of lame by skitter, but meh

VOTE: gamma emerald

Yes i noticed that and loooooooved that detail

Also uh should i be concerned by that pop-in by ydrasse?

Also uh i think that's e1 and i dont want to end the day just yet ...

UNVOTE:

skitter shades ydrasse for naeed voting gamma emerald to E-1. i feel like skitter would probably do this regardless of ydrasse's alignment? because it's a face value "scummy" thing that she'd want to call bad with the mindset she'd do it as town. i realize this is very useless so far!

If ydra is scum here gamma almost certainly isnt

entertaining an anti-associative read based on that vote, not saying a whooole lot

Dont like popping in for an unannounced e1

While toog is actively saying he wants the day to end

bad form, maybe (i had already unvoted so it wasn't E-1 although the unvote is nice) but i don't see why she does that as scum. a quickhammer, maybe. but, i mean, it's not like she wouldn't do a vote that looks bad as town. you know she's done that.


i kind of think toog is town who is lazy/apathetic for some reason (although it confuses me) which makes cakez trying to call him scum worse

Uh remember the awful iirc hammer vote on bulge in perperual elo? She's capable of 'whoopsi-ing' that as scum and playing it off

Also toog yeah idk what he's doing. If u wanna complain abt the day still going at least try to do somethubg abt it

I mean i'm not disagreeing with u that she might do that sort of thing as town too, but the timing coupled with toog's comments abt ending the day just before called perpetual elo to mind and kinda made me think she might be setting up a hammer here

Altho ig if we're not actually e1 this whole thing is moot but that's what i was thinking

i almost missed these comments because i'm searching via CTRL-F, my usual process and these are all indirect references, i'm glad i read for context

she really starts going after ydrasse HARD for that vote and shading her, it's not really like her other teammates where skitter passively attacked them some but didn't push them

this is where i am starting to think it looks like skitter going after a town

[petapan]

ah here we go

Cephrir - scumvibes
petapan - feels weird. idk if that makes him scum necessarily but yeah
ulyana - probably town
Ydrasse - scum-ish
Saber - no thoughts
PookyTheMagicalBear - maybe town?
SirCakez - probably town
skitter30 - shining beacon of towniness, etc
Gypyx - had some townpings on prism, but she isn't a slot i can read confidentally. liked gypyx's entrance tho
Infinity 324 - still kinda weirded out by her lack of reaction to me voting her, and i think she's townreading me too easily
Toogeloo - honestly feels too clueless/unaware of what's happening to be scum
Galron - very underwhelmed thus far. was p easy to pick out town-him in radio buzz but not really seeing the same things here yet. could be because he hasn't caught up so i'll give this a little more time but right now feels kinda scummy
Dunnstral - forgot he's in the game
Dwlee99 - scum
Taly - townie
Gamma Emerald - scum

here's where i'm at ^

Or you could look at players that personally give me fuzzy warm vibes: Infinity/Pooky/Ydra/Saber

taly why are you liking ydra here?

meh! again with the trying to undercut a read on ydrasse. admittedly i feel like skitter did a similar thing with unwnd's read on dunnstral not being scum?

[petapan]

classic skitter on ydra scumread

i mean what should i be townreading?

my essence

i don't see the towniness of your essence

this is the same ydra of that normal game and radio buzz

im rolling town lately and i cant stop

i don't see the towniness of your essence

okay so do u think i grilled gamma that hard for shits n giggles

i don't remember how u were in that normal game, i was scum and also have actively expunged that from my memory, sorry
but i don't think you're that similar to radio buzz

pedit why does grilling gamma make you town?

i actually really like this exchange between skitter and ydrasse for ydrasse? i know she's capable of that sort of theater but it feels a bit off the cuff, a bit of legitimate annoyance with skitter, and i don't think skitter spends this long in thread just arguing with a teammate

[petapan]

and now i see the context for Saber's 1025 - i don't think saber comes in defending ydrasse if skitter is distancing from her? also skitter flat out fucking ignores saber making that post christ lmfao

[petapan]

i don't remember how u were in that normal game, i was scum and also have actively expunged that from my memory, sorry
but i don't think you're that similar to radio buzz

pedit why does grilling gamma make you town?

ur voting gamma. u think he is scum. i was one of the first ppl to dig into him and actually get him to explain his reasoning which is why you are now scumreading him. why do i set up gamma like that

i don't remember how u were in that normal game, i was scum and also have actively expunged that from my memory, sorry
but i don't think you're that similar to radio buzz

pedit why does grilling gamma make you town?

ur voting gamma. u think he is scum. i was one of the first ppl to dig into him and actually get him to explain his reasoning which is why you are now scumreading him. why do i set up gamma like that

i did note that if he's scum you probably aren't but at this stage where we don't have any flips that isn't a reason to townread you

i don't remember how u were in that normal game, i was scum and also have actively expunged that from my memory, sorry
but i don't think you're that similar to radio buzz

pedit why does grilling gamma make you town?

ur voting gamma. u think he is scum. i was one of the first ppl to dig into him and actually get him to explain his reasoning which is why you are now scumreading him. why do i set up gamma like that

i did note that if he's scum you probably aren't but at this stage where we don't have any flips that isn't a reason to townread you

Zzz

If u say so but its just weird 2 me when i was the catalyst for like. not all of it but a decent chunk idk

maybe im just built different

Zzz

If u say so but its just weird 2 me when i was the catalyst for like. not all of it but a decent chunk idk

maybe im just built different

idk. you don't make sense with gamma but independently i don't townread you

my feeling on this is kind of...it feels very similar to how skitter was shading/poking at me when i was hanging back in the early game. ydrasse actually feels really pressed by skitter and skitter won't stop picking on her


remembering those days when i was dispassionately hanging back from the game and sighing wistfully

[petapan]

There’s also the fact that skitter and Ydrasse, the two people on me I was probably the most keenly aware of via my earlier feelings of sadness at being voted by my TRs (I had a line going through my head during that time about “People That You Like Want to See You Suffer”, and I recently managed to pinpoint that it was an episode title from Survivor) moved to Galron, so I think they at least have good intentions even if I feel skeptical about Galron’s odds of flipping scum.

i'm like 90% sure that ydrasse's vote was to make a point to me and had nothing to do with u

huh, didn't see this, let me see if i can find it

[petapan]

VOTE: galron

is there something beyond the wanting to hammer despite being unsure for galron

because i can see myself going “yeah no info let’s flip and see what happens” if things dry up maybe i’m impatient

That's mostly it, but also that he's at once saying he doesnt know abt gamma while offering go hammer him, like now

Having a hard time kinda understanding ghe mindset where he's behind, keeps saying he needs to catch up, doesn't get why the biggest wagon js scumread, but also wants to hammer him

Also work now, so later

idk sometimes i vote for things that i don’t get because it does move things forward
VOTE: galron
like this
sometimes it really is easier to send someone out and start fresh rather than put in the Work

A) difference between the like third vote on a wagon and flipping someone
B) he's a different sorf of player than u

i don’t think it’s much but i will do those things on a whim

+ i don’t think that mindset is uncommon rlly

Right, i'm saying idk if town-galron does those sort of things on a whim

In particular whim-ly hammering someone

this, hum, i don't think it's purely un-associative but it feels like skitter is actually really trying to convince ydrasse of galron-scum? and ydrasse sheeping the wagon just because but talking to skitter about it, idk. i guess she could conceivably worm her way on asking permission from a teammate but it'd be weird

[petapan]

peta's jealous that he has to post content to be townread tbh

i have actually gotten townread for not efforting, me doing that is actually strongly town indicative because i'm a massve tryhard as scum but most people don't understand that

anyway

VOTE: ydrasse

ydra is good there too.
i saw that there were votes for dunn and infinity. would be fine with dunn, don't really want infinity in it

i don't really know if i like the fact that you want to get in there ...
VOTE: ydra

VOTE: ydrasse

why ...?
UNVOTE:

i'm kinda suspicious that the suspicious people are voting themselves for this ...

isn't it just a duel

i get shot or shoot someone or s/t

well, why do u want to be in it?

it's titled a duel, but we don't know what it is exactly, or what the participants will have to do, and we know that scum have more information abt what these events are

why are you both voting yourselves here?

isn't it just a duel

i get shot or shoot someone or s/t

well, why do u want to be in it?

well if i get shot then i am out of the poe because, lbr i am not doing a lot (for the time being) to leave it

if i get to shoot someone maybe i hit a bad person

that's about it

who would you shoot in the universe you got to shoot someone?

also this is kinda fatalistic but as i write this i remember you doing the same thing in radio buzz
but i guess why don't you try to be, like, townier instead of possibly kiling yourself as a solution to being in the poe ...?

i'm sorry that you're not enjoying the game
idk if there's anything i can do to help with that

but i'm not voting you into a position that we don't know what it does so that 'you can maybe shoot someone with it' when you're saying you don't even know who'd you want to shoot

even if you're town that doesn't seem like the best idea

i mean, we know for a fact that one of the slots skitter was pushing but doing a weird dance where she shaded them for selfvoting but backed off them was town

but really this is like, what, does ydrasse copy galron as a gambit? that seems so silly. and skitter decides to hop off a town wagon to bus and back down immediately but shade ydrasse? kind of think it's just a town she's trying to push

[petapan]

and so saber comes in a little later defending ydrasse, and then dunn a lot later

i think for this to be your assumption of the scum model you would have to assume skitter bussing/distancing and the teammates ignoring/defending, but that doesn't really seem like coherent scumplay, i think if skitter was really set on bussing saber probably falls in line

otherwise you have skitter possibly trying to kill ydrasse while her teammates ??do nothing about it?? and don't try to position themselves to look good at all but make defenses that won't sway anything?

[petapan]

2082 really just doesn't feel like a post skitter writes to a teammate, at all

[petapan]

but really dont be sorry its no ones fault <3

<3

if u could do that, i would appreciate it
i understand motivation varies and goes up and down and sometimes people just can't
but while you're here your posting is just very lackluster as well .... so if i can see your thoughts abt the game that would maybe help with sorting u here ...

if u got in the duel would u agree to being leashed / shooting within a pool?

pedit i actaully forgot that we knew that >.>
ydra does that change anything abt u wanting to get into the duel

well if one of the people in the duel are dying they probably don't get to choose who to shoot, it's probably something more like a gladiate or something, so leashing is irrelevant

idk ur kinda feeling like unmotivated-radio-buzz-you rn so yeah
if u can do the vc's + the pooky stuff u mentioned when ur able to that would be great

what do u think abt galron rn?

i think the end of this exchange with ydrasse is pockety. skitter acts like she's satisfied with ydrasse and tries to set her about doing work, it's like, okay, you have satisfied me and proven yourself to me, now do my bidding

[petapan]

YDRASSE is TOWM



for the pagetop

[petapan]

Did Galron/Ydrasse read the event rules? It's clearly described as a duel to the death involving a gun, why vote yourselves in?

given that we don't know what the events actually,well, are, i'm kinda suspicious of people who intentionally seem to want access to them

what if i told you the last game i played as town was more or less this

i would tell you i explicitly do not care, because the fact that you can play like this as town does not mean that playing like this makes you town

and i have no reason to not want to kill you over who actually care about solving the game

okay next question

do you think ppl are ~actively scummier~ than me?

absence of towntelling =/= scumming and ive only seen "slightly scummy"

what's the purpose of this line of questioning @ydra

i had no real opinion on the wagons and voted gamma to make dueling wagons

- still hate teh gamma e1 vote
- i was under the impression u were strongly scumreading gamma, no? that's what you were telling me before

trying 2 gauge peta's headspace that's about it

thnx

here's some quotes. i'm getting tired now.

she still is shading ydrasse here. she keeps putting the pressure on. could it be setting up to look good from a teammate flip? maybe but in general skitter seems to have mostly been aggressively pushing town - it's a very different style from her on dunn or saber, where they get occasional shade in passing and not much else

[petapan]

i had no real opinion on the wagons and voted gamma to make dueling wagons

Early ISO you were giving minor jabs towards him 'his tone is stiff' 'being weird his votes' etc. with lead into a vote. Did they change and you decided to vote him anyways? What do you think of Peta playing hardball with you? I think Peta is someone is a opportunistic person and would use your own misgivings against you as scum. Do I think Peta is scum? Not sure but I'm not really gauging how you feel about everyone accusing you.

idk really

i think infinity's worse than peta but it could be peta? idk if he knows how to read me tho

i feel pretty meh towards the suspicion on me because i'm not doing a lot to reroute it so it's like why could i be mad at my accusers lol

probably scum pushing me atm

i had no real opinion on the wagons and voted gamma to make dueling wagons

- still hate teh gamma e1 vote
- i was under the impression u were strongly scumreading gamma, no? that's what you were telling me before

thats okay you can hate it if u want to

atm i dont remember what my reads even were d1 but im not sring gamma now, but i remember my vote was more for making the wagons even then it was a real care about who was elimmed

you were scumreading gamma
voted galron to prove a point and make a gamma counterwagon

the fact that you don't remember this is surface-level scummy but honestly probably more indicative of the fact that you're very out of it


~
also why are the people pushing you scum?

i don't think ydrasse ever answered this from skitter, probably because she didn't realize it was her

but i like ydrasse's response to skitter here, a lot - "thats okay you can hate it if u want to " doesn't feel like scum talking to a teammate, it's got that kind of "whatever" sass, scum just don't really think to speak to each other this way typically, they tend to be more...simplistic and deliberate? like anyone can tell a teammate they don't feel like talking to disengage. the specific way ydrasse does it makes it seem like she's just

done

with skitter.

[petapan]

i mean idk fmpov it's like

i'm not doing a lot but i'm not doing a lot that's scummy either so ... the people who are being pushed on a lot might be scum + the people pushing me are looking for ways to not be on partners

Like i guess i see this but kinda like I said above u also know ur not playing in a way that would gef u townread so from ur pov i'm not sure u shouod be finding it odd or scummy that people scumread you

and again she comes back to pressuring ydrasse


that's page 1 of the iso, which feels like a good time for me to call it a night

(trying to read skitter's iso is such a pain in the ass)

[petapan]

and again this is like a ton of posts attacking ydrasse and skitter had like, 6 posts of minor shade at dunn and saber combined

[petapan]

I'm honestly tilted idk if Peta is even reading Me/Gammagooey interactions.

i just woke up but i put basically 0 weight on realtime interactions this phase with 1 scum left

[petapan]

i mean basically in heaven my brain was switched off, i wanted Titus and cakez flipped and that was it. i could have dug into the stuff i'm doing now w/r/t skitter in the prior phases but i didn't really want to reread everyone. the HQ affair really did make me not want to interact with the game a ton and i'm sort of realizing it now how out of it i was, plus just wanting to wait for flips on suspects

[petapan]

anyway, taly, if you want to discuss gammagooey, you're going to have to go back in the game, not talk about stuff he's doing this phase


because in my eyes it feels very unlikely the scumteam goes that hard on bussing galron/unwnd in the early game, and from the stuff i've caught in my backread i don't really see it

[petapan]

*inhale* i have been sick for like two weeks i cannot sleep but today i will try to carve our a chunk of this game given time restraints

i'm going to go over the hell pt and share what i think is useful now. a lot of it is just us 4 going back and forth over what the best mechanical choice is for town and how to achieve it and our reads on /each other/ which i don't think matter anymore because we have all the flips, and content about people in heaven was... very sparse so, that's the easiest place to start for little ydrasse

well, if you've seen my recent spree of posts i'm now extremely confident on you being town

so when you get a chance you can help me out

[petapan]

the haeven pt was 3 pages and we basically sleepwalked through it, there was some jockeying for nominating a ruler (we didn't know what the ruler would do), but not much scumhunting. gooey voted gemerald and GE voted taly, i dragged my feet and said gammagooey was my most confident townread and gooey voted himself, i followed

was some discussion of contingencies on the flips and that was it, then we shared some songs because gammagooey asked and waited on hell to resolve

[petapan]

*inhale* i have been sick for like two weeks i cannot sleep but today i will try to carve our a chunk of this game given time restraints

i'm going to go over the hell pt and share what i think is useful now. a lot of it is just us 4 going back and forth over what the best mechanical choice is for town and how to achieve it and our reads on /each other/ which i don't think matter anymore because we have all the flips, and content about people in heaven was... very sparse so, that's the easiest place to start for little ydrasse

well, if you've seen my recent spree of posts i'm now extremely confident on you being town

so when you get a chance you can help me out

i have went to lengths i have never went to for this towngame i'm colorcoding posts going back from the start trying to read you will never get this level of investment from town ydrasse again. today you have found a powerful ally and when this sudafed vanquishes my plague i shall be truly unshackled.

oh same i am never going this hard as town ever again lmfao

[petapan]

I'm honestly tilted idk if Peta is even reading Me/Gammagooey interactions.

i just woke up but i put basically 0 weight on realtime interactions this phase with 1 scum left

anyway, taly, if you want to discuss gammagooey, you're going to have to go back in the game, not talk about stuff he's doing this phase


because in my eyes it feels very unlikely the scumteam goes that hard on bussing galron/unwnd in the early game, and from the stuff i've caught in my backread i don't really see it

i have the exact opposite view but on BOTH of these posts but fine

i mean for the first one you're not going to change my view of how to play the game that i've developed over 11 years

[petapan]

I'd like to see some posting from GE+Ydrasse about who they would have put up if they got to be ruler, who they think is most likely scum, etc (Ydrasse I think was planning on going over some stuff today)

I feel like I would have put up you/Ydrasse, or maybe you/peta
I don’t rlly think peta is scum rn tho, but that’s somewhat off the back of some of the stuff he’s done in this phase
I don’t really recall this singular focus of his on past interactions ever coming up this way in FGO 2

this is a weird post, given you were previously doubting my self-clear

so let me explain some stuff

in general my process as scum in this situation is going to be imitiating the one i have as town, and just tweaking the conclusions because i know everyone else is town

there's a slight difference in that as scum i am going to be working in service of a narrative i am trying to create, where as town i have no goal and am just looking through at things and deciding what i think of them

but that's a small difference

in general in this situation, scum and town are going to play similarly: each one wants to persuade you it is not them, and that someone else should be killed instead

that is why i do not believe trying to base reads off realtime interactions in this phase is a good idea


there are over 250 pages in this game. there is a body of work left behind by each live player, and ISOs from 3 flipped scum slots. the evidence for who the last scum is in there. it just has to be found. the backlog of the game is going to be more telling than what anyone is doing or saying this phase, includign me, because you can see how scum played around people, how people played around scum, and who was really trying to figure things out.

and so on that note, if you are not scum, you gotta start trying to find out who it is

[petapan]

i uh

don't know what to say to that

[petapan]

like let's say this chair thing is something good.

and Gamma is trying to get into the chair because he's a stagehand and he knows the chair is good.[Theory]

Dunnstral is saying the theory is incorrect because Gamma could've just voted himself into the chair but Gamma didn't - hence he can't be a stagehand who wants to get into the chair. [Theory is wrong]

This completely ignores the fact that if Gamma were to vote himself into the chair, and it was something good, Gamma would look hella susp for it, aka the rest of the game when maybe we get a chance to kill him.

So it's not as simple as Dunnstral is making it.

Dunnstral is like

good

at mech, so he should recognize this, but he simplifies it.

That feels informed to me.

Also he ignored Gamma's vote on him completely and chooses to comment on this part without really commenting on actual relevant shit.

I guess I should trust Pooky on Gamma but I want to hear his answer to my Ydrasse question first because I don’t like it that he isn’t voting her.

this post literally doesn't even say anything about gamma lol

[petapan]

i feel like i've hammerred my point home here on ydrasse plenty (maybe? would appreciate a concrete agree/don't agree from people)

but rather than continuing to ine skitter, let me quote some stuff from HQ:

would also send Taly and Ydra right now
little more leery of Peta right now post-Infinity flip

I think this is Ydrasse town meta and Taly actively posting nuanced reads plus tone is usually a good sign.

I haven't been paying attention to Ydra this game.

So I started skimming and I lean town, and here's why:

I think Ydrasse as mafia will start the game off strong but over time lose drive, and then you realize their posting is just fluffy but not filled with very hard analysis

In this game I don't see the falling off or the fluffy

Ydra town. This is rarely a buddy read.

@ulya I think peta was looking at Saber shading infinity/skitter/Ydrasse
Also getting real tired of you consistently harping on the same shit from me

When I repped in, all I considered was whether or not I thought that slot would be town. What should have thought more about but didn’t, was if they’re reads were good or not and clearly their Infinity/Ydra reads were really dumb.

Here ya go.

My first 4 across would be Cakez, dwlee, Gamma, and then myself, in that order. If no one dies, and game isn't over, well, we at least have something to talk about.

First plan you've given this event that I'm actually pretty OK with.

I’m not. I’d really like to get my top TRs across (myself, peta, Taly, skitter, Ggy)
This plan only just leaves enough room for them and I’d really rather purge as many of my actual SRs as possible rather than people I’m just somewhat worried about atp

How is Ydra not in this list?

VOTE: Dwelee
VOTE: Ydra
VOTE: Taly

for now

Pooky and Ydrasse can be marked as TRs, Ydrasse in “not shooting” territory as well

Did anything change with this Gamma? Why aren’t you voting Ydrasse?

also the plan is still not entirely formed wrt whether we want more or less trusted folks to cross first
as clearly evidenced by you wanting ydrasse (your townread) voted across when me and dwlee are having talks that involve more suspected slots crossing first

I thought we were supposed to vote our most confident trs first. So, should I unvote them then?

help harley and gamma are the only ppl i trust with my life and people wanna kill one of them ahhhhhhh

Scum!Ydra never makes this post.

I finished rereeading through some stuff to try to read Ydrasse and Gypyx better and it was mostly not helpful. I do think I should downgrade Gyoyx/Prism from strong town to regular town read b/c most of my read came from the Prism slot and just Gypyx *efforting* but he still comes across as town to me

Ydrasse wasn't around much for pages like 50-70, kinda helped start the Galron wagon and then wasn't around for a while but also those pages were like a single real-life day so I don't think it's anything to really hold against her. Ydrasse also wasn't around a ton in blue PT which is slightly eh but most of her content there was pushing Toog which I can't really fault either.

My perfect left behind-team atm is prob skitter/Saber/Ydrasse/whoever Ydrasse wants to take down with her but I'm much more concerned with just getting skitter/saber dead atm

If Taly gets within hammer range of sending across I'll do it even though I want him to go later, but also I want to be slamming through the first 4 people once we've got the 1st person crossing.
VOTE: petapan for now

oh hey more posts. I would still push dwlee through too and be perfectly happy about it, so if more votes go in that direction I'll jump back on dwlee wagon. Gemerald is also fine would vote to cross

oh and LAST THING I probably don't have much time to post until Saturday evening except for tomorrow morning and pop-ins to change my vote as a heads-up.

Okay, lost my initial tr on this slot. Ydrasse should never be left behind.

so harley comes into the game, spouting a bunch of overconfident reads off very little. and I think the way she insists on the strength of Ydrasse being town here is just a TMI townread

this continues on into the crossing phase

and she's very insistent on ydrasse being town even while knowing she's POE material, and ydrasse is toward the back end of the people potentially crossing

and i think this is just classic scum in antispew trying to make themselves look partnered with a town by defending them

you can contrast that with how she starts attacking skitter later in the iso

[petapan]

tried to dig into some other stuff but i'm tired i'm just gonna have to get to it tomorrow

my tentative lean is ydrasse and taly are both town


i wish i'd just pushed for myself as ruler in heaven

i should be beyond blatantly town at this point

[petapan]

If you don't feel particularly convinced about Cakez skitter you could weigh in on the other subjects on Gamma's wagon for me

you and dunn are the worst of it

whatever. Just eliminate me within the next hour or so so I can cry myself to sleep.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

E-1

I have to go to bed.

Intent to hammer Gamma tomorrow morning

I mainly want to give Gypyx time to catch up more.

I'm going to hammer I guess. I think we need a flip, or at least a view of how these days are going to go down.

My vote on Gamma wasn't nearly "the worst", nor is it even particularly ai, arguably. Trying to paint this as me having a substantial say in what happened when it was pretty much decided already without any input from me is a bad look.

i'm looking though dunn/taly again, there's not a ton to take away there, but dunn shading taly when he's distancing with skitter is probably very slightly +town? eh.

[petapan]

Saber talk yomeeee

Sorry, still catching up, flightful bird! I love the costume by the way, I'll just assume it's a hobby and not something you're being paid for.

honestly this type of interaction is >rand scum/scum lol

Taly's probably my strongest contestant for how pure and cheerful he is and how he encourages players to engage and play the game in fun ways. There's almost an agenda in the way he posts, but the agenda is to get everyone to post more and have fun which would be quite disadvantageous as a stagehand. The Gamma case was also very good.

I saw you asked me a question earlier Taly and I'll go dig it up tomorrow, I need to sleep soon.

this, though, the strong townread is probably just an informed read, sometimes scum aggressively powerwolf but notably, i just checked: Saber basically NEVER gave a concrete read on skitter, certainly not in this manner, and only justified her townread on skitt when confronted on it in the blue room

[petapan]

Taly's probably my strongest contestant for how pure and cheerful he is and how he encourages players to engage and play the game in fun ways. There's almost an agenda in the way he posts, but the agenda is to get everyone to post more and have fun which would be quite disadvantageous as a stagehand. The Gamma case was also very good.

I saw you asked me a question earlier Taly and I'll go dig it up tomorrow, I need to sleep soon.

Hehe yay

This rose my wim. Thank you.

Happy to help!

All caught up. Free to be of assistance, Taly.

VOTE: Gamma

I'll get back to you on 780, Dwlee. I'm skimming through the script of the previous show Radio Buzz to see if I can ascertain any differences.

How do you feel about

Cakez-Toog-Cephrir

?

Thoughts that come to my head right now:
Cakez - Unsure, but I remember disliking some of his takes.
Toog - His uncaring play is more likely to be town, doesn't give the feeling he cares about how his posts will look every time he pops in. An example would be the vote on Prism.
Cephrir - Was below null until he started posting about how this game is a wash because of similarities to the last show etc which I thought was pretty towny.

these are posts. I don't have thoughts on them.

Saber, masons?

Masons!

this sort of aggressive buddying is actually proobably less likely to come from scum

I'm stagehands with Taly, Taly, and Taly actually. I wasn't sure why Morning Tweet allowed a reverse-hydra in the game, but Taly assured her it'd be fine and he'd 'carry'.

there's some cases where certain players do this kind of cheeky scumclaim so they can rub it in your ace in postgame when it gets ignored, but meh

@Saber: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

As for my reads:
Taly
skitter petapan
Ydrasse Infinity
Gamma Toogeloo Cephrir
SirCakez Dunnstral Dwlee
Galron

Maybe something like this. By the way, I won't be free much this weekend but I will return with spoils of war.

I'm mindmelding strongly with

Saber

. I think it's best I lean in and refrain from suspicion here. I did notice that she hasn't touched my recent posts on her.

I think I'd prefer

peta

over

Dunn

at the moment. I did not like his interaction with

Galron

at all.

I don't believe Pooky's prodding towards me end of day was any real suspicion, I read it as he thought I was a contestant and would be sad if I was a stagehand.

honestly the

saber ignoring taly's posts and taly calling it out is hrm

i scrunch my nose at it a little

2127 - Oozes contestants from Taly, I don't see a stagehand faking a winding complex thought process like this.

Uly

is void of scum motivation. I feel she would have trapped herself by now. She seems to be closer to a stream of consciousness type player and the rabbit holes she digs herself in do not feel fluffy because it is genuine.

I feel dumb for saying it but I unironically think she's a contestant for all the 'mmmmmmmm's and instantaneous reactions she puts in the thread to posts that make her think. It's an easily fakeable thing but something I don't think stagehands normally think to fake, since it does little to actually make them look like a contestant.

Oh, what the hell.

VOTE: Cakez

The two-ended admission of bussing is very on the nose.

Plus my self-vote is at best distracting with less payoff the longer it is on.

Drunk Cakez's posting is funny and that's all I got.

this is nothing to me. the townread on taly here is probably toward the pockety side based on their dynamic but i wouldn't really clear based on it

[petapan]

based on these posts and Saber's post in the blue room, where when I started doubting Taly she started angling for possibly voting taly, wiggle room in her read she didn't really give to skitter where it was a straight defense, with a lot less reasoning than anything she said about Taly, i lean toward this implying taly-town, but not really concrete, not at the same confidence level i have for ydrasse

[petapan]

i think prism comes off infinitely better than gamma in their spat
i'm kinda liking taly now too

big shrug. skitt giving an early townread on someone can easily be a move to attempt to influence favorable views toward a teammate, the fact that she hedges it with "kinda" is suspect to me

or is using my answers to determine how to maneuver this game.

what do u mean by this?

What do you mean by "off"?

also what does everyone think abt infinity?

felt good early because she was making reads amidst the usual fluffing around nonsense, review of the ISO leaves me feeling more neutral. doesn't really seem obvscum to me, just kind of there

the issue that i'm having here is that i'm used to town-infinity having more 'oomph' and 'being here' more than she has been, esp. in response to my saying i scumread her. usually if town-her feels i'm reading her wrong (which has happened multiple times in the past), she kicks into gear, starts pushing me, and has a visceral sort of response. here she's kinda just passively accepting it and not really doing anything abt it, which i think is a reaction much more likely to come from scum-her.

like the fact that she's 'just kinda there' is what i'm finding scummy here.

ah here we go

Cephrir - scumvibes
petapan - feels weird. idk if that makes him scum necessarily but yeah
ulyana - probably town
Ydrasse - scum-ish

Saber - no thoughts

PookyTheMagicalBear - maybe town?
SirCakez - probably town
skitter30 - shining beacon of towniness, etc
Gypyx - had some townpings on prism, but she isn't a slot i can read confidentally. liked gypyx's entrance tho
Infinity 324 - still kinda weirded out by her lack of reaction to me voting her, and i think she's townreading me too easily
Toogeloo - honestly feels too clueless/unaware of what's happening to be scum
Galron - very underwhelmed thus far. was p easy to pick out town-him in radio buzz but not really seeing the same things here yet. could be because he hasn't caught up so i'll give this a little more time but right now feels kinda scummy

Dunnstral - forgot he's in the game

Dwlee99 - scum
Taly - townie
Gamma Emerald - scum

here's where i'm at ^

i mean, hrm

looking at it again

look at those fucken teammate reads

is she defending none of them?

also almost every read she put actual detail into is on a town

the galron read leans a lot toward shade but she gives dunn significantly more leeway

[petapan]

Or you could look at players that personally give me fuzzy warm vibes: Infinity/Pooky/Ydra/Saber

taly why are you liking ydra here?

this is a question. there's no further dialogue off this.

If Galron was scum, why **NOT** go against my wishes about hammering intention?

Oopsiss my brain has hit its limt

i was a little confused by the prior version of this lol >.>

and, well, why would he do that after you explicilty asked people not to. would just needlessly call attention to himself

man so many pedits >.>

minor interaction.

Nah, Galron may be dealing drugs on the side but Gamma is the shining stagehand. I implore you to vote him.

Is it impossible that both wagons have been largely town-led regardless of Gamma/Galron's alignment? It's almost a distraction to consider what the scumteam as a whole could be doing D1 in this game because they have more information of the chair than the rest of plist.

What do you think the scum has been doing this game?

so from your pov what have scum been doing this phase?

Matadoring Gamma's wagon.

i'm gonna take a rain check and come back to these, i'm sorry, i just can't string together words coherently rn
but will circle back and respond when i can

i'm not sure skitter ever gets back to this

taly can you say why you're suspicious of peta
(and/or point me in the right direction if you already have don so?)

Most vocal stagehand or suspicions from Pooky I can see are on Gamma, Dunnstral, and petapan. He also supported a S-S theory for the two leading wagons.

just gonna point out that even though i townread gamma at this point we technically we haven't really seen anything that disproves s/s

if they were actually svs wagons picking your partner and then sabotaging the flip is a great way to make you look unaligned in that situation

While I agree with this, a

Gamma/Galron

duel feels both like something scum would predict and a rehash from the chair vote. I'd like to see new contestants in the hot seat.

yeah i'm not saying we should force that to be today's duel or anything but just noting that i don't think anything happened to contravene the svs theory

these are some posts and stuff, it's all minor

[petapan]

in a vacuum the lack of real meaningful interactions between skitter and taly is somewhat +scum but nothing really conclusive

[petapan]

skitter Am I tunneled on peta? I feel like their reaction my suspicion of then has just been dismissive and I don't like their complacency with voteparking on ydra.

i think u kinda are, yeah. like i've been reading everything you've been saying about him and idk it doesn't look super compelling to me. i think some of his posts rubbed you the wrong way and it then just kinda spiraled from there

I'm confused with

Ydra

. I had the thought that they wanted to be in a duel, so the persecution of

unwnd

feels hard to follow?

I thinj she's being a little bit mercurial but got fired up/engaged when unwnd pushed her, so once she found a scumread she felt good abt she wanted to make rhat happen

Oh, what the hell.

VOTE: Cakez

The two-ended admission of bussing is very on the nose.

Plus my self-vote is at best distracting with less payoff the longer it is on.

?
I thought he was p townie tonight

skitter

, who should

unwnd

duel with?

skitter

, who should

unwnd

duel with?

Dwlee

Omg I wanted to sheep your answer so badly but

Dwlee

feels raw tonight.

I dont see it

Aww.

Hmmm. I don't know how to read Cakez tbh. Which is as fencesitty as it sounds.

Any other names?

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I took his last post of "but actually" as a "will get to you

Taly

ASAP."

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn

, do something.

this is all...okay. the dialogue does negate my concern from the last set of stuff a bit, and the asking who to vote -> vote dunn based on what skitter says would be weird for a bus? idk

there seems to have been a broader tendency looking at this second page of the iso for skitter to be white knighting town mostly

[petapan]

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I took his last post of "but actually" as a "will get to you

Taly

ASAP."

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn

, do something.

Ah ok - was willing for a read/ur thoughts on the unwnd/ydra thing. Would u mind sharing that and/or requoting if i missed it
(Tomorrow is fine tho, night!)


And a dunn/unwnd duel would be cool

i dunno this dialogue doesn't make me think much of either of them. could squint and say the extent to which skitter seems invested is +town but don't know if i believe that

Taly is a big question mark for me because they don't fit in my mind. This is a curious (?) where I don't think they're townie but also not null. They're a hard elimination and in my absolute tinfoil paranoia I think they're being protected by scum. I have less on the motivations of why, but I feel their presence to not be something that relieves me. Maybe it's their nature to weird, but I can't townread weird because something tells me that Taly is probably decent at his own weirdness and using it as a means to be townread. There's nothing entirely wrong with his approach but that alone makes me question because it is presented in such a processed and orderly manner where every appearance by him is very deliberate. It would be townie in another game but not this one, and not based on the events that have happened.

also i read this and just kinda went :huh?:
i don't think taly is being theatrical/processed at all, and i don't' think he's getting townread for 'weirdness' either
and where do you see 'protected by scum' ? like what does that mean and where is that happening

defense here leans toward this being skitter whiteknighting, again, given overall play patterns

i don't know that skitter busses her whole team but the tendency i feel like was more to slot them as possible poe but put most of her energy into pushing town? kind of like how she was saying she was okay with dunn in the duel but had a ton of her posts going after other people. in general i feel like skitter doesn't

want

to have to solo carry but that depends significantly on how the rest of her team is doing

[petapan]

Also i am significantly more sus of taly after the pt, i would just like to say
Toog did look better in the pt too fwiw

Also i do think there's something weird going on in taly/dwlee

Yeah also i dont remember taly wanting cakez, he was pushing ydra a whole lot

oh, I'm getting BoP'd on my few scum games. Love it.

Not a good reaction to that ...

And if she is town, I want to work with Skitter. But her posts about outlining suspicion with my progression over Dwlee without digressing into it and saying my reaction to peta was bad without looking at the following posts that narrated my viewpoint, vexes me.

i feel like i described my issues r.e. dwlee in the pt, no?
also you weren't getting bop'd by your scumgames so that post felt somewhat straw-man-y + the annoyance felt out of place

pedit ok

Wait, why does

Infinity

bus a partner here?

>.> literally my argument in the pt that you kinda ignored ...

i mean, urgh. the sudden turnabout and shade here...actually feels kind of suspect, toward the minor distancing skitter did with her other teammates?

i don't

really

think skitter expected taly to be a viable elim at that point in the game

[petapan]

saber's tilt is nai but her content is just kinda ~lacking~ tbh

random citing skitter distancing here

[petapan]

i thought it was infinity's vote that tipped the dunn wagon over >.>
my mistake

i don't know if that really changes my mind on either of you tho

And I don't know if this changes my mind that

Dwlee

has a point about you being scum.

i mean i feel like you've been wanting to come to this conclusion for a while

I just don't understand why this isn't a good reason for you reevaluate here if you're town. It feels agenda based.

i was wrong abt the order of the votes on dunn, sure
that still doesn't change the fact that timing of peta's scumread on dunn was bad, or that i dislike most of trajectory in the duel either

infinity's vote wasn't the only reason i was townreading them, and i think that her play post-pt this phase was quite townie for her too

between the 2 i'd still want peta. i don't think i'm voting infinity here

You were hypothesizing me scum in the pink chat I thought...

Okay NVM your first thing there was saying you "feel better" about me there

Skitter

susses me a good bit at this point.

i don't remember you wanting dunn at all

i'm more than a little bit annoyed that infinity died last event

~

If four successive town players reach the other side before scum make a kill, all scum die.

i was kinda thinking at first that this like coalition where we want to vote in 4 people we think are town to just auto-win but then i realized that scum are just gonna kill someone they find annoying/threatening in the first 4 crossers to prevent that from happening.

i think the best way to use this is to figure out who the 4 sketchiest people are and not-cross them in order to mass-resolve generally suspicious slots, and then by default cross over everyone else

this is probably a good time to resolve toog tbh. saberslot i think should be uncrossed as well
i'm still kinda suspicious of taly too

~

also the event mechanics are really cool @tweetie! the art for each event is so evocative

I still don't quite follow your progression on me.

i don't quite folow your progression in the pink pt on me or infinity, or why you kept trying to make ydra happen, and your interactions with dwlee feel weird

Skitter, I've felt that I've been very consistent in being pro-Dwlee before the PT occurred. I instinctively trusted their POV of the game at the time beyond the rest of the PT when I otherwise was doubting my own perception of pink team being all town. I figured their tunnel on you/Skitter was an invisible strategy to take as scum because that only harms their credibility by pushing known misims OR if they were a partner of either of you, it would be odd to bus when nobody bit onto the read at the time.

I don't know the context of you and Infinity's history well, so when I read the moment Dwlee saw you two as potential partners (around the moment you suspected Infinity for their tone), it made me rethink your slots because Infinity has been tonally different than town games I've seen before, and I had difficulty parsing your progression as well as your push for Peta in the PT when you acknowledged that Cakez/Unwnd was T/S.

My vote on Ydra was largely motivated to consolidate with Dwlee when I wasn't convinced of peta, began to lose trust in my read on both of you, and didn't think Cakez was a slot people entertained.

Granted, I'm annoyed at my play here because I spent half the PT just replying to people to justify my suspicion of Ydra, and got frustrated when I felt like people were just dismissing me by staring that Ydra's alignment was obvious when it wasn't to me.

And that helped my confbias into a potential Ydra+Infinity and/or Skitter mentality at the time.

i guess the part that i'm having trouble with is why you're kinda molding your pov of the game off of dwlee's here
like that's the bit that i'm not understanding

all this stuff is honestly a big hrmery to me

the thing is again based on gamestate, i don't see how skitter

really

thought taly was a viable elim (but then she tried to go after me, lmao)

i kind of like the big reply to skitter trying to justify things here but i don't

really

have a good reason to say this stuff isn't theater?

[petapan]

heya my wim and motivation isn't super high rn but if anyone wants to chat i'm around

fwiw i'm actually feeling better about taly this phase - i kinda like how he keeps newly understanding the rules and how that immediately influences how he's approaching the events/who should cross.

lol that read is so bad wtf

[petapan]

i need to check what taly was saying when the crossing event started - there is obviously heavy incentive in scum not trying to murder each other that phase and maybe wanting to cut down the distancing - i suspect skitter was not happy with harley attacking her like that. i wouldn't be shocked if they were distancing when it was forced between me and infinity but couldn't keep that going during the crossing?

i know i had a brief moment where i backed down on skitter, but when she immediately de-escalated with me it was a huge red flag and i went back to insisting she/firebringer should be left behind for the entire event

[petapan]

Everybody is voicing the same 3-4 people that they are ok with uncrossing. So why does nobody agree on who should cross?

i think there's a few consensus scumreads so it's easier to find commonality amongst the people who oughtn't be crossing but the top townreads aren't as consensus so it's harder
and there's differieng strategy on how the crossing should work, etc

i don't think we should focus *too* much on the crossing order tbh because scum is just probably going to kill the first person crossing they think is somewhat threatening, it matters more who doesn't cross

pedit i think scum is always incentivized to kill because why wouldn't they take a kill offered, no?

this is some discussion, it doesn't say much to me

There's also a moment where she even mentions choosing crosses so quickly that scum cannot respond effectively, and that's a ballsy POV from scum that does not align with Ydra's otherwise relaxed demeanor.

in the same post she literally said scum-her had suggested something similar in a differnet game

sorry the because was to HQ, not you @taly

i'm saying that you can't townread her for 'that being too ballsy for scum-her to suggest' when we have an example of scum-her doing exactly that
and i think it's well in her range to mention that too

(to be clear i'm not saying i scumread her for it or that she is scum because of this, i'm saying this is a silly reason to townread her)

this is, eh, a post. not really anything to do with harley but i feel like skitter undercutting harley's read again points to ydrasse-town?

[petapan]

Me on

Skitter

rn

hi

why does voting taly thru feel like a mistake lol

i mean i think it's fine but if u think that why are you voting him

and that's where it ends

[petapan]

i don't think i ever not flip taly here over ydrasse, there's some things that make me say eh maybe not, i wouldn't be confident he's scum but there's nothing i find that's explicitly clearing like i do for ydrasse, and skitter's read movement on taly post pink room into crossing is very meh?

[petapan]

Infinity

, I still love you.

Also omfg I love this event's mechanic. It's fucking delicious.

VOTE: Taly

Let's make this fun.

admittedly this is such a ballsy move in that event if he's scum because if he actually crosses first and doesn't die he looks very bad? but then people might not vote him over

and it's still very confusing from a

town

mindset

[petapan]

I don't know what you're expecting of me

Peta

I'm good with eating the lim if it makes elo easier.

But if you ignore my posts this event phase after my flip, I'm going to be pretty upset.

i dunno, if you're town you just have to leave me something to work with at this point

[petapan]

your posts this phase are like super-reactive and don't give me much to work with, it's so hard to think logically that gooey makes more sense than GE based on how the early game played out

and if you had doubts i'm not sure why you hammered gooey?

[petapan]

like your entire thing has just been "gammagooey is scum for trying to lim me" and...i'm sorry, that's not very convincing?

[petapan]

can you just...restate it? or quote it for me?

[petapan]

But IE, Ggy's complacency with limming both me/ydra OR just passively seeing how the thread falls is scum indicative because we are at threat of a potential elo and he is not bothering to define his solve further. It reads as him positing since he is in a state of immunity.

Also because his read of Gamma is inconsistent eith the fact that he does not try to defend him.

i feel like he's been pretty explicit in his reasoning though, i don't see it as complacent

and he did defend gamma to me in 6564, i don't think he's not trying to at all

and if you're going to attack him for complacency i feel like GE is significantly worse in that regard?

[petapan]

Peta's

analysis misses the context of the team PTs.

okay fair enough

[petapan]

i will be candid and say i am almost certainly voting to flip you here and not ydrasse so if you're town you just have to solve in the gammas

[petapan]

the interactions where you came away confident he was town?

[petapan]

I really don't understand the case for me being scum.

Oh wait, there isn't one

i mean your posts right now are kind of bad/survivalistic

and i have merely said i don't have reason to clear you as compared to ydrasse - there's some stuff with the skitter interactions i can kinda squint my eyes and scrunch my nose at and say something is fishy here maybe but nothing concrete

but the fact of the matter is

every other living player was pushed by scum at some point and you were not

your job needs to be to find out who bussed

[petapan]

or who was bussed rather, w/e

[petapan]

i'll give you all the space i want, it's what i've been doing all phase

[petapan]

Also Saber kept pushing for Gemerald-scum after the Execution Throne event here - don't think it's as strongly town-indicative as the last chunk, but she def. didn't just lay off Gamma once the heat was off from his Throne-posting

my actual feeling is that scum tend to want to leave a backdoor, they'll leave open the possibility their teammate being scum as kind of a hedge. same sort of thing where dunnstral infuriatingly refused to give an actual read on GE

however i do keep reminding myself of the early game posts where it looked like saber was chainsaw defending dunn from gamma emerald and meh

still, i feel like if it's not taly, it basically has to be him? because basically no other rational view of the game makes sense

[petapan]

i feel like taly's arguments might be focused on the here and now because he knows if you look at past game content it's impossible to argue against rationally

[petapan]

i will again emphasize though that the HQ stuff particularly makes me just want to bet the game on ydrasse-town

that's like the most obvious bait there is and if she's killed off that it'd be a travesty

[petapan]

for gamma the arg is this: skitter tried to derail his wagon day 1, scum basically let him go free range post throne of execution but saber and dunn wouldn't commit to townreads there and that gives me spooky hedgy vibes

then from event 3 his posts were like this: trying to act leader-y and compile who wanted who to cross (NAI), asking other people questions, and trying to get a lot of townies killed. this was the concern ulyana had where he was seemingly not doing much solving and on a read back that was kiiiinda how it looked to me

also had the saber slot as a scumraead early but kept keeping HQ at arm's length/slightly from the bottom of his reads? and also was trying to protect skitter for not great reasons/using me backing down on skitter as cover

[petapan]

hey everyone i got alot to read. BUT JUST WANTED TO SAY HI PETAPAN!~

hi firebringer


did you replace into a scum slot

I'm scumreading

Cakez

again

what an odd nonsequitur

[petapan]

I also feel like Taly just never seriously considered skitter-scum as a possibility this game which sketches me out a fair bit. There's just pokes and disagreements and a bit of shade but I don't think they ever seriously pushed each other.

i agree with that, looking at the crossing event it's notable that taly and skitter attacking each other post pink room seems to kind of go away

but, well, i think he should be the flip and we have to set up contingency otherwise is all

[petapan]

Skitter's

WIM lowering felt real and

Fire

is the most present out of these 3 slots in thread, but I've not been historically good at reading

Fire

and this slot being town meant

Dwlee

got 0/3 of his scumreads correct OR I'm incorrect so :/

[petapan]

maybe ill just sheep taly instead of reading.

Taly is the last living player who voted for Dunn to be in the duel with me, an probably the only player I really trust in the game.

Does scum do this here?

Do you think

Tamora/Cakez

could be S/S?

possibly. Tamora is only one ive been iffy on since i got in and i was kind of thinking cakez telling me the people to send of not including himself (originally) was kind of weird for him.

I townlean

Fire/Toog

these past 2 pages.

Going to group ISO

Prism-Gypyx/Cakez/Tamora

and then likely revisit the latter half of

peta's Dunn

analysis.

firebringer's posting so far ingame is entirely NAI

trying to extract a read on a handful of posts from a notoriously carefree player over the 346 posts left behind by skitter which are surely more AI is a very questionable process

You caught me, I did a conflip.

But honestly I want to look at

Prism/Gypyx

first.

I could've misread

Gypyx's

wild reversal from

Prism

in terms of trajectory on

Gamma

.

I also suspected

Prism

was a powerwolf early Event 1.

Gypyx

has had a nearly incomprehensible read progressions this game.

And the growing suspicion of

Gypyx

doesn't outright mean he isn't scum. He might be bussed.

[petapan]

firebringer's posting so far ingame is entirely NAI

trying to extract a read on a handful of posts from a notoriously carefree player over the 346 posts left behind by skitter which are surely more AI is a very questionable process

score one point for process, and an absolute one-two punch series of posts

i don't often do self-congratulatory nonsense but i want to give myself credit for keeping this shit on the rails while so much of the game was trying to murder almost50 and toog. both of whom were frankly painfully obvtown but, like...i couldn't have a perfect solve there, it wasn't possible, there was nothing i could do

if you ever think i make that immediate pounce as scum just retire immediately

[petapan]

What if it was Toog and 2 people in blue team? There was an early sentiment that the duel wasn’t really clearing for Toog, but they never gained traction. Maybe that’s why they didn’t feel pressured? And with Infinity getting nominated and how many people were sussing them, Toog could basically do whatever in the pink room with the knowledge that it was basically going to be a landslide. As for the duel, I just looked at the votes and Peta and Saber were the last two. Now I’m worried about a Peta/Harley/Toog team tbh
I started this as an attempt to devil’s advocate but this all sounds internally consistent

People tend to get tripped up when I ask for homework rather than write something as lucid as 4065.

I want to hear this same team theory but from the perspective of Event 1 to see of that consistency still remains.

If you really feel that way Taly. then why are you so hellbent on rushing the start of this vote, when you are fully aware that I need as much time as possible to make a good decision?

I'm regretting that I didn't vote

Saber/Harley Quinn

slot and wish

Skitter

swapped with

Infinity

for the nom.

Essentially, neither nom is one I want eliminated above others.

Taly ignoring me, also noted.

Why take the most hostile possible interpretation of my behavior? My suspicion of your slot is largely from

Saber

and you've yet yo make an impression that leads me to think you interact with other players in good faith. If you genuinely feel rushed for time, then just say so and stop wasting it by taking shots at players who have found clarity and are acting upon it.

Fuck.

You want to kill me. You don’t want to give me time to make an informed decision. Then you completely ignore my posts. Why should I have a positive interpretation of that?

Yes, I’m slightly paranoid that if you’re not wrongly tunnelled on me, you might even possibly trying to set me up. Do you really blame me?

Because why not give me the time I need to catch up when you know I just repped into a 152 page game?

i mean, hrm

why nobody want me to cross and potentially fall to an anticlimactic death

Yet another reason I think you’re town, you were the antithesis of cute in that game you were scum in. No offense but I think cuteness is a towntell for you.

meh

[petapan]

You townread

Gammagooey

?

I did but his interactions with Skitter looked weird to me, something was off there and then him wanting to leave Ydrasse behind kind of sealed it for me. I don’t like the way he keeps referring to her (Skitter’s) slot. I’m getting possible buddy vibes from their posts. When he sr her, she didn’t get upset about it and he keeps saying he wants to leave her behind but only talks about wanting me dead. That doesn’t sound like town making a good faith sorting of me. Those kind of posts generally come from scum trying to push a miselim. I just don’t buy it.

this post gives me a headache because i don't

think

harley outs her team out of spite, but wow

[petapan]

i should jut be moving on to contingent solving in gooey/emerald but i did want to check the harley stuff t see if there was anything telling and there's nothing that makes me not want to flip taly but i can't say with full confidence that ends the game

[petapan]

anyway gamma i'm compromising enough, you get 2 in the PoE that i don't agree on, let me have my stance on her

Also, I’m not an object and no one speaks for me in this game. You don’t get your say on me regardless of what that is, no one does. I am far less upset about the bad srs then being disrespected by both you and gooey. I have never been treated that way in any game ever and the lack of direct interaction with my slot is really messing with me. I feel like I’m sometimes being discussed like I’m either not actually a player in this game or somehow treated as subhuman. I know people don’t understand why that affects me so strongly but it’s starting to adversely affect my mental health.

okay guess what

i don't care

ream me out if you want

you doing this explicitly makes me want to remove you from the game because i refuse to tolerate this sort of emotional appeal anymore

was the case with saber it's the case with you

maybe i'll look like a cold hearted asshole and a moron in postgame but i pretty strongly believe in stamping this sort of stuff out

I don’t care dude, my mental health takes precedence over any game and I won’t tolerate this from you and you can’t make me.

Your read on me is bs and I really didn’t understand how the setup worked but now I realized that being willing to be left behind is pretty much gamethrowing and I won’t allow to either continue to manipulate or intimidate me. What I do know is you are making this game unplayable for me and if you don’t stop being behaving like such a douche to me, I don’t think I’ll be playing with you again in future games. I’m sure you don’t care but if you’re okay pushing people out of games they really wanted to play in, that’s on you. I know it’s not the kind of thing I’d ever be proud of, so I really hope that making me feel like utter shit was worth it to you.

Once again, this has nothing to do with your shifty read on me, even gooey gets it but for some reason it still is going completely over your head. I admit I haven’t been exactly an angel where you’re concerned but I don’t sign up for games to be mistreated and I won’t tolerate that in this game or anywhere eise for that matter and if you think you can browbeat me to put up with your crap, think again.

I really did try to ask you as nicely as possible in the most respectful way possible and your response was to double down and ignore it. Every player in any game is entitled to a basic level of respect and when I try to get through to you that I’m not okay with the way you’re engaging me, you just double down and get nasty. You don’t have that right, no one does. I was wrong for those things I said earlier which I already apologized for but you are making this game absolute hell for me with your disrespectful and abusive attitude towards me. I’m still a human being behind this computer screen and I felt I had really no choice but to speak out and if I allowed you to continue to steamroll over me, manipulate and intimidate me, I would eventually lose it on you and potentially put myself in a position where I risk being temp banned and I hate to break it to you but you’re not worth it.

I shouldn’t have called you that, I should try to be classy and better than you. I apologise to the rest of the playerlist for my behavior but Peta is seriously harming me with his attitude and it just not acceptable to me.

Anyway, someone has to be the bigger persi here and give way and it’s clearly not going to be Peta. This isn’t fair to the rest of the playerlist or the mod who designed such a kickass game. I won’t continue to be a part of ruining this game for anyone. It’s already been ruined for me.

I may just have to Foe Peta for the remainder of this game, idk. Anyway, sorry again to everyone who had to read our toxic interactions. Whatever you believe or don’t believe Peta, you are legit harming me and it’s not game related but I’m sure you will continue to unfairly accuse me of that. I have been legit crying almost every day because of how you’re treating me in this game and if you or anyone else thinks I am doing this to affect anyone’s read on me, you don’t know the first thing about me because I would never do anything like this as a form of manipulation ever. I also don’t ever fake my emotions ever and I’m not lying about any of this.

I shouldn’t have called you that, I should try to be classy and better than you. I apologise to the rest of the playerlist for my behavior but Peta is seriously harming me with his attitude and it just not acceptable to me.

you're gross, don't engage with me

I’m going to have faith that you treat people better than this outside of games and leave it at that.

i'm going tp pull this up again. maybe you don't want to read it. but you need to be reminded. sorry.

this literally does not happen if i am scum. harley pulled AtE that compromised my ability to interact with her ingame with any integrity whatsoever. when someone makes that type of clam it makes it impossible to sort them in a fair way. note that she did not use this sort of nastiness against skitter. she knows i am town when she is doing this

if scum are going to play dirty i'm going to use it to clear myself

[petapan]

that is to say nothing of how

skitter tried to murder me

[petapan]

I'm caught up enough I think. I just haven't found anything to really dig into. The mechanics seem the most interesting thing, but I don't think it's really the right time to talk about that, at least until we have the first challenge under our belts. My reads are awful, and I have this impression that no one's done or said anything really noteworthy. Like in Radio Buzz by this time we had several 1v1s or 1v1v1s. I see a few here, but they're junior varsity spats. I'm seeing what I think is a frustrated Gamma leading the pack, but I'm not sure why he's so scum read, which makes me think I need to go back and read the beginning of the game again, which I started doing. I do kind of agree with whomever said that thing about Ceph being similar to RB, and I think I need more than just that feeling to scum read him I think. I dunno, I'm just missing a ground hold here.

You feel very weird and like muted as compared to radio buzz. There iirc u also kinda missed fhe beginning of the game but ur contributions were p quickly p townie. Idk if the difference here is that u need more time to get into the swing pf things, or if ur just scum. Dunno how to differentiate between those universes just yet

Is there anything i can do to help you get into the game?

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

E-1

I'm going to hammer I guess. I think we need a flip, or at least a view of how these days are going to go down.

@galron like 3 posts on top of this u said u werenr sure if gamma is scum + u arent really caughr up / into the game yet. This intent is super premature in that context and doesnt really make sense

Ngl i'm starting to get some cold feet abt gamma
There's been like no resistance, the wagon comp keeps changing, and i dont like how people are popping out of the woodwork to vote him

I'm caught up enough I think. I just haven't found anything to really dig into. The mechanics seem the most interesting thing, but I don't think it's really the right time to talk about that, at least until we have the first challenge under our belts. My reads are awful, and I have this impression that no one's done or said anything really noteworthy. Like in Radio Buzz by this time we had several 1v1s or 1v1v1s. I see a few here, but they're junior varsity spats. I'm seeing what I think is a frustrated Gamma leading the pack, but I'm not sure why he's so scum read, which makes me think I need to go back and read the beginning of the game again, which I started doing. I do kind of agree with whomever said that thing about Ceph being similar to RB, and I think I need more than just that feeling to scum read him I think. I dunno, I'm just missing a ground hold here.

I'm going to hammer I guess. I think we need a flip, or at least a view of how these days are going to go down.

I really don't think we need 10 hours though.

So ur not caught up, dont have a foothold in the game, dont think anything noteworthy has happened, want to do a reread, dont ger why gamma is scimread, but want to hammer him and think waiting 10 hours to do so is too long.

Is that right?

just do not believe skitter stitches up a teammate like this mid day 1, dunn and saber got treated with so much of a lighter touch than this by comparison, skitter chooses to focus on galron in particular over dunn here

[petapan]

i'm very underwhelmed by dunn but don't know if that ai for him, also think it would be a disappointing way to end the day if we ended up flipping him while we have this gamma/galron thing going on

by comparison you get this weaseling

[petapan]

This does not feel similar to scum Dunn who is just watching the town undo themselves while making strong observational points that get him townread. It's not a strong read but I'm purely instinctive right now

tbf i actually don't know his meta or particularly what his scumgame looks like
but he's basically sitting on the sidelines making random mechanical observations and i think that's scummy

she shades him as an aside here, sort of positioning herself on the right side of history (but again never votes dunn!)

but doubt it's a conversation that happens as s/s/s

[petapan]

atm I'm willing to vote Peta, Dunn, Infinity

why peta

whoa wow skitter spewing me town

[petapan]

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I took his last post of "but actually" as a "will get to you

Taly

ASAP."

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn

, do something.

Ah ok - was willing for a read/ur thoughts on the unwnd/ydra thing. Would u mind sharing that and/or requoting if i missed it
(Tomorrow is fine tho, night!)

And a dunn/unwnd duel would be cool

and again like if you're telling me she's pulling some over the top double bus

nah i don't buy it that's not playing to win

[petapan]

cause for concern i have on gemerald:

in blue room defends skitter, which isn't damning in and of itself, i was skeptical of gammagooey's reasoning as well, but it is notable, only even suggests compromising on skitt when the rest of us end up tunneled on infinity

quoted in that topic is this early reads list:

Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse, Sircakez
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Petapan
Could do with a touching-up: Dunnstral, Dwlee, Ulyana
Remove them from the premises: Saber, Galron, Toogeloo

I think I’m sitting somewhere around here?
FYI I kinda felt like Saber’s response to my question about the progression on me felt a little sus

which feels suspiciously accurate? of course unwnd had strong reads too but it felt like with that slot there's been followthrough

whereas with gamma it felt like dunn was getting a light touch? and he had to be practically dragged into killing the saberslot

[petapan]

For your scumplay I highlighted it for you that you had a terrible habit of putting all of your scumteam in your scumreads and you proceeded to keep doing it in your next several games, which I'd have to find later as I don't want to comb through them right now.

and here's a reminder

[petapan]

In a way it feels like Dunnstral has been playing a different game than the rest of us, his focus and thought process seems so out of line with what's going on. While that's probably scum-indicating, I also feel like it's something I again want to put up for discussion rather than acting on now.

a concerning thing for me is despite voting dunn in the first event he talks himself out of targeting him with the execution here

and the reaction to the sabotage was really flat! ulyana pointed out as much at the time and it's stuck with me! more concerningly, saber pointed it out, and scum hedging on that type of read is typically a byproduct of knowing the person is scum

[petapan]

@Dunnstral

: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.

@Dunnstral: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.

I haven't read the whole game. When I come into thread I try to respond to what I can, but not necessarily everything. I try to focus on the current votes and why things are happening.

Let me be more direct. Why did you respond to me pushing Ulyana? That felt like an odd thing to focus on.

That's what was current when I was in thread and Ulyana is one of my only townreads in this game. I didn't like the push there.

Eh, okay.

Actually now that I think about it lurkscum does feel like the “right” choice
So I’d maybe say Dunnstral/Toog/Ydrasse are the best options from an objective POV
unwnd I need to see how he plays but I wouldn’t have advocated putting Galron in under this logic
Btw this isn’t “vote player a in, votes reset, and then we vote player b in”. Once a person gets hammered the second-place wagon gets hammered with them. So beware that probably.

I'm reading Cakez' ISO now and about 10-15 posts in I think he's scum

What are the rest of you doing lol

I also think he is scum

To be clear, I voted Gamma to E-1 when that vote was pretty much locked in. Gamma asked to be eliminated within an hour, and two people declared intent right after my vote.

Then we spent an extra 3 days actually doing the thing

How does that involve Cakez

I'm just preemptively explaining why I wasn't voting cakez at the end of day since unwnd replaced in and was asking about it.

No one was really voting Cakez at EoD, although it was brought up which is kinda why I think he hammered
The hammer is like, the one thing I could see as suspicious in his play, and I’m pretty sure he’s got a track record of making scummy moves as town. I think Betrayal mafia is one of the key moments where I got misled by him doing something like that.

I think it will be more clear whether we've received a benefit when we know more about the event.

I don’t think the mod fool enough to make it something that would even be apparent with that info. Her emphasis seems to be on not retroactively modspewing the alignment of the person in the chair. I think you’re right it’ll be less nebulous when the event is known but not to the degree of certainty your post seems to convey.

I think it will be more clear whether we've received a benefit when we know more about the event.

Unless knowing that the second person voted in "starts with the gun" is the benefit?

That actually makes some sense, that felt completely natural to include but on reflection wasn’t mandatory

@dunn who is scum (besides cakez)

Probably all the lurkers except for me. No shame.

This thought has crossed my mind, though I feel like at least one would be trying to shake that label, which might fit Cakez
I think I may want Cakez as the second in the duel because I’m starting to see reasons to SR him but also don’t feel like I’m seeing stuff that contradicts what I had seen in him

Not every mafia game needs to be painful

How does that even relate
You seem consistently tone-deaf this game and I have no idea what that means for you

here's these gamma emerald interactions with dunn post-chair and...none of them are very good? half of them are mechanical discussion, gamma never at any point really looks like he's trying to solve dunn or put pressure on him, that last quote in particular is pretty back, it's so awkward and in-between

[petapan]

I’d accept a Toog/Dunn duel
Bring people out of the shadows and into the light

Cakez/Dunn ain't aligned so I'm cool with this

VOTE: Dunnstral

why
also VOTE: toogeloo

How is voting out me different than voting out toog for the game state?

it's not
I think you're both fine to be in the duel for that exact reason

the most you get is this which is

fine

but considering skitter was soft bussing dunn while not voting him i don't think it gives any cred whatsoever, and it basically comes with not much in the way of progression after "idk what to make of you" to dunn

[petapan]

I’m shifting into ISO reading for probably the rest of my deliberation because just reading the game regularly is starting to feel like the well of info has dried
Saber’s early progression through the game seems pretty alright, I just feel like there was a lot of flowery content in the way of that and we also had the square-off about my TRs that set me against her. I’d like a chance to actually have a heart-to-heart, so she’s exempted from the kill.

again, a real thinking emoji of a post

[petapan]

@Saber

: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.

presented without comment

[petapan]

Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse, Sircakez
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Petapan
Could do with a touching-up: Dunnstral, Dwlee, Ulyana
Remove them from the premises: Saber, Galron, Toogeloo

I think I’m sitting somewhere around here?
FYI I kinda felt like Saber’s response to my question about the progression on me felt a little sus

reread the last 40ish posts from infinity's iso as a check and think she's fine. i don't find it, like, whelmingly towny and she's maybe faded a bit in terms of actively doing things but nothing particularly looks bad in there.


similarly took a look at saber because she was a blind spot for me and wanted to check that. posting styl is very formal which i'm always going to struggle with, on the one had she looks the part of a townie and on the other i just always find posts that are more carefully constructed to be suspicious. has mostly focused attention on the popular targets in gamma and galron but her reasons there have made sense they haven't been, like, scummy pushing necessarily. maybe a bit narrow focused but like i said earlier, looks the part. probably wouldn't be able to read without flips, wouldn't want to flip today

cakez's early game is bad but i think he gets better later. there is some stuff from him i think is maybe towny that i don't feel like going into. i don't think the reasons for suspecting him (lack of nuance, being behind on the game) are really alignment indicative. do want to see more from him but wouldn't really fade at this point in time

I like these reads rn
the cakez read also kinda lines up with my thoughts

there's no progression on this from gamma: he says saber is sus and she's in his scumreads, but then suddenly when i say that i wouldn't flip saber but am scumreading cakez, he likes that?

[petapan]

remember when i said gamma was looking wild? couldn’t be me

p sure it’s just gamma taly is probably town and it makes me sad mr. gooey did this to us

yes i will try to back this up when i am not sick. yes i have been sick for two weeks and sleep a ton after work.

yeah it's just super frustrating taly is being so erratic?

mostly i feel as though the actual reasons being given for townreading gamma emerald are not all that good

also gosh i hope everything is all right, being sick for that long seems pretty bad

[petapan]

The least I can bargain is that I would still love to flip Saber/Cakez

I would say at one scum there, confidently

But matching any further doesn't seem proper

Okay, this is workable
If you+me vote one of them that’ll change things so they’re set to be part of the duel over Toog.

VOTE: Saber
I am okay with this.

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

My issue rn kinda lies with this comment. I feel like it’s a bit revisionist history given pushing me is no longer the in mode thing to do. Before this I distinctly recall you saying when I was switching things up it felt to you like I was scum seeing my current approach wasn’t working and trying something new. That is essentially being tactical about switching up my play. And yet you nitpick my word choice like this, it feels incredibly concerning, like you’re trying to detach yourself from the push on me you had before.

okay, he does revisit it at least...

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

My issue rn kinda lies with this comment. I feel like it’s a bit revisionist history given pushing me is no longer the in mode thing to do. Before this I distinctly recall you saying when I was switching things up it felt to you like I was scum seeing my current approach wasn’t working and trying something new. That is essentially being tactical about switching up my play. And yet you nitpick my word choice like this, it feels incredibly concerning, like you’re trying to detach yourself from the push on me you had before.

Yes, it was both. My point was that your shifts in attitude seemed unnatural, which is the main way to tell whether they're from a stagehand or contestant. It can only be theorised whether they're actually tactical because they didn't even go well for you. For example, your acting like a jester and then turning on Prism only seemed to attract more heat on you, so saying it's a stagehand tactic is iffy since you'd be actively pursuing bad tactics. I'd prefer to look at whether it was actually natural for you start acting those ways when you did.

This sounds alright btw

...and drops it on a single response, lol

[petapan]

remember when i said gamma was looking wild? couldn’t be me

also if it is gamma emerald, prism/dwlee/ulyana were all canaries in the coal mine that got shunned, feelsbadman

[petapan]

also maybe i shouldn’t risk it all again on ate but saying you need to foe someone etc specifically would be a little fucked to say in a game to a scum partner so here’s hoping you haven’t decided to retire this account with a sharp scumgame

i'm not a goddamn sociopath who is so compelled to bus (a slot that MOST OF THE TOWN WAS OKAY WITH) that i push them to the point where they complain it's harming their mental health. or stage that as an argument. just. holy hell.

[petapan]

Thinking about it very much makes sense things went the way they did if Saber is scum

I feel like it’s possible 2 scum were in the pink room and since the wagon was landing on Infinity, who is sussing Saber, the scum in the pink room just wanted an opponent that wouldn’t get votes over infinity.

gamma, genuine question here: why not do the inverse of what you’re doing (towncasing infinity) by scum casing peta if you’re that certain infinity is town? i guess that makes sense to me because you’re treating them as preflipped town so why not go to the other option to save them?

Because I’m not sure peta is scum. By play I think he’s obvtown (knock on wood), the main way I could see him as scum is based on the gamestate
Thinking about it I feel like exactly one of peta/Saber is scum here, so that’s like, the lone argument I can come up with there. Because like, there’s an alternative reaction to having a scumbuddy flip besides deflating, and that’s to overcompensate. Peta outposted everyone in the blue room by a mile.

How did everyone in the pink room act when they started posting?

Dunn gets in duel with or without infinity

That raises another question: with Saber probably being scum, scum!finity would have been shifting the wagon into their buddy earlier?

Another inconsistency with Skitter's "infinity is town because Dunn vote!" Thing when I voted Dunn way before that and was pushing him to be part of the duel very hard

Actually yeah

You and I WERE the strongest pushers on

Dunn

Event 2.

I’m pretty sure most of the time I was pushing Dunn as well
I did try to put Saber against Toog at one point but that was because unwnd wanted a saber flip

notably gamma trying to take credit for the dunn pelt here

meanwhile a bunch of posts talking about saber as scum

What if it was Toog and 2 people in blue team? There was an early sentiment that the duel wasn’t really clearing for Toog, but they never gained traction. Maybe that’s why they didn’t feel pressured? And with Infinity getting nominated and how many people were sussing them, Toog could basically do whatever in the pink room with the knowledge that it was basically going to be a landslide. As for the duel, I just looked at the votes and Peta and Saber were the last two.

Now I’m worried about a Peta/Harley/Toog team tbh

I started this as an attempt to devil’s advocate but this all sounds internally consistent

man what the FUCK

[petapan]

Hang on: peta, why do you deem Saber's entry into the blue room as less-than-passable?

Okay so my first determination from looking at D1 VCs is that Toog is like almost assuredly scum here. He kinda hangs back early, then makes some weird votes on Prism and peta. He then sheeps me onto Dunn and later Galron. I think the fact he sheeped me like he did there might be the most damning part, as it seems pretty much like he was doing a thing I've noted scum to commonly do where they'll sorta glue themselves to a townie. In Among Us, I noticed Cakez doing this with Battle Mage, and in Mini 2234 T3 did it with StD. It's not a 100% tell but it feels pretty probable that's what Toog's MO was.

I might have something big here

It might just be as simple as dwlee/cakez/toog

while leaving all of the controversial slots untouched

Name names

Unwnd, myself, Peta, Infinity (although I don't think there's a world where Peta dies today)

This is an extremely interesting post in retrospect because it's pretty hard to suggest anybody in this pool other than ig cakez are untouched now

Toog's content this phase is absolutely atrocious

Like, it's all room shit, defending himself via the shoot-out, and basically nothing that looks substantive
I can't tell where his mind is at in this duel at all and yet he's voting to start. THAT'S A PROBLEM.

It might just be as simple as dwlee/cakez/toog

Sweet, so everyone agree to just pass, right?

I think that'd kill peta based on the event rules
even if it doesn't do that based on the exact rule I'm thinking of, scum still get a choice of who to kill in the pair, so someone is required to die this phase

I honestly can't tell what the fuck peta sees wrong with saber's posting, actually. idg how it's deflated, I think she had a reasonable post density compared to how much she posted in the main thread before the split decision event came along

saber initially called out infinity's vote on dunn as a potential bus


this is partly problematic because i think saber's posts in the topic were absolutely fucking wretched but i wasn't going to talk myself out of a vote because a suspect was leading it. unwnd was actually looking at other people briefly before the sub out because he suspected saber and didn't want to vote with her

this is basically the most in-depth peta has gone on the subject so far

the sudden pivot to saber/HQ defense is super weird because gamma had been suspicious of that slot entirely independent of my case, i thought?

[petapan]

also boy that is a lot of townies gamma wanted killed over scum

[petapan]

I honestly can't tell what the fuck peta sees wrong with saber's posting, actually. idg how it's deflated, I think she had a reasonable post density compared to how much she posted in the main thread before the split decision event came along

saber initially called out infinity's vote on dunn as a potential bus


this is partly problematic because i think saber's posts in the topic were absolutely fucking wretched but i wasn't going to talk myself out of a vote because a suspect was leading it. unwnd was actually looking at other people briefly before the sub out because he suspected saber and didn't want to vote with her

this is basically the most in-depth peta has gone on the subject so far

again: gamma was supposedly suspicious of saber before this

[petapan]

Ngl I’m mindmelding with Cakez pretty strongly on those TRs
I’d add skitter to mine tho

[petapan]

Strong TRs: (GE, peta, Taly)
Weak TRs: (skitter, Ggy)
In flux: (ydrasse, ulyana)
Weak SRs: (cakez, HQ)
Strong SRs: (dwlee, gypyx, toog)

This is where my reads are basically at atp. Up until just recently cakez and gypyx were switched, but I'm heeding peta a little bit on cakez and I remembered something gypyx posted in the blue room that pings quite a bit now that infinity has flipped town.

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

my desired order would be something like

(whichever of cakez/HQ isn't left out)
ulyana
ydrasse
(skitter+Ggy in either order)
Taly
(me+Peta in either order)

if we wanna do most to least towny for the crossing, basically just flip this order

there's also a good bit I don't like from cakez rn so he's still in my lower tiers

go into it?

I don't like how he went through events 3 and 4 pretty much at all
I'm also worried about how his reads sound, it's a case of "seems logical but not in a definitively town sense", which I had towards cephrir in Radio Buzz
there's another slot I'm of that opinion towards in this game as well somewhat, but I'm more willing to trust that person than I am cakez

look at this list. look at this fucking list. gamma has HQ toward the bottom of it but 4th, with just enough wiggle room to potentially slip through while leaving an all town group behind

[petapan]

basically every dead town who has flipped town was pushed by gamma (including dwlee) while he only seemingly begrudgingly went along with the scumreads

[petapan]

i'm feeling the best abt gammaemerald ydra and dwlee presently, and they definitely should cross

Dwlee was pushing you+infinity? Mostly infinity but you were also part of that (prolly because of your history)

i think they're absurdly tunneled and haven't gotten over a read they made on like p10. they're posting and solving has been good otherwise

If Dwlee is scum I most certainly don’t wanna reward “tunneling” two slots I sorted as town quite early on and

outside of a concern on you via being in a spot I thought scum would be more likely to populate

, have continued to be town for me

wtf?

[petapan]

How much have your reads changed since this point, if at all? How would you rank the players in an exact order of towniest to scummiest rn?

{gamma}
{taly, ydrasse, ulyana}
{cakez, skitt, toog}
{peta, gooey, dwlee}
{gypyx, saber}

i guess this is it, ordered from t->s within the tiers. toog moved up from good posting in the pt, dwlee moved up after thinking about it more because i think i believe their scumread on me, unwnd i felt was being genuine in ex. his interaction with taly towards the end of the last phase, he was trying to solve even though it looked like he was gonna die.

So here's the thing: I mentioned you come off like in that True Love game because on a lark I read that one over because I was also curious if you'd ever misread town!me (and you did, in that game) and you had the scum towards the middle of your reads in that game, while consistently push the T/T pairs. You ended up getting miseliminated which took scum!creature out with you. I think things are lining up in such a way that this game has become a near perfect replication of the trajectory of that game. As such, the midzone of your reads list is honestly where I'd want to kill in the most rn. (Cakez, skitts, toog, peta) are the full list of names I sus based on this conclusion, so I'd very much like to vote out peta here. If that is unappealing to everyone else though, I'd like to try something else, though idk how the math for this would even work, where we deliberately split the votes so it's scum's choice who dies, thus allowing NKA to be done.

my lim order within that pool would be something like toog>peta>skitter>cakez (not factoring in the fact peta is forced to be first technically because I'd rather not have to kill infinity to validate my opinion)

fyi skitter has kinda sank in my reads outside of being in that pool as well

i'm sorry i don't know if i follow this, can you say it again?

I feel like I’m more inclined to fall back on my earlier read on you rn

(partly because I feel like peta has a point)

which makes me feel very-not-good about Dwlee

i quoted the last part again but it's worth revisiting: first two posts are when it's locked in to me vs. infinity and i'm screaming bloody murder that skitter is outed for scumreading me

suddenly skitter is falling in his reads, no reason given


then the crossing event comes and i momentarily second-guess my skitter read and he follows behind it


that line i bolded is the type of shit scum love to do all the time. they love to sheep townies' bad reads on their teammates because it keeps them from having to make up their own reasons and be seen as defending them.

and from there he just goes back to townreading skitter after that with no further depth or evaluation and that's all he says on it

[petapan]

@toog In this game, yes that’s accurate (though that post looks loaded to suggest I’m scum)
I think you trying to help is good, but your plans do seem very scum-adjacent.

I think Taly has a very good idea in having players who are at each other’s throats but have a good number of people TRing them should cross early so either one can get resolved by getting killed or there can be confirmed scum in a set or town just wins
I think there’s like 3 of those pairs atm (me/Dwlee, gooey/skitts, ulyana/Cakez)

Obviously only two of those can be a part of this plan for now (if 4 go across without a kill and the game isn’t won yet we can discuss sending over the last pair maybe)
Actually writing that I realized that the way MT worded things when it was asked earlier might put a spanner in the works

again trying to backdoor in getting skitter to cross

[petapan]

Dunn gets in duel with or without infinity

That raises another question: with Saber probably being town, scum!finity would have been shifting the wagon into their buddy earlier?

Get that right. YW.

Why is my slot getting pushed? Gamma are you really this terrible at reading me?

Gamma are you really this terrible at reading me?

this is just so disproportionate/why would gamma have to be bad at reading her to misread her when she just replaced in

I would really like to know that as well. I did a deeper skim on Saber and they were sussing on Gamma, so maybe it’s just omgus?

Still, Gamma should be able to correctly read me, so that’s extremely concerning. Not saying he’s scum but it’s hella weird.

Dunn gets in duel with or without infinity

That raises another question: with Saber probably being town, scum!finity would have been shifting the wagon into their buddy earlier?

Get that right. YW.

Why is my slot getting pushed? Gamma are you really this terrible at reading me?

I forgor who you are (I think you told me in Dark Waltz)

Oh yes, your partner wound up being scum in that. I don’t recall outing my alt in that game to anyone but I think Alisae might have guessed? But if you have any idea, please don’t out it.

Oh yes, your partner wound up being scum in that.

What’s your point in bringing that up?

???

Because it’s true?

Wut

Oh yes, your partner wound up being scum in that.

What’s your point in bringing that up?

???

Because it’s true?

Wut

What does it have to do with this game though?

Nothing, your point?

Oh yes, your partner wound up being scum in that.

What’s your point in bringing that up?

???

Because it’s true?

Wut

What does it have to do with this game though?

Nothing, your point?

I recall thinking my partner was town this game, so it feels like you’re trying to discredit my judgment.

Dude, I have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about.

Oh yes, your partner wound up being scum in that.

What’s your point in bringing that up?

???

Because it’s true?

Wut

What does it have to do with this game though?

Nothing, your point?

I recall thinking my partner was town this game, so it feels like you’re trying to discredit my judgment.

town THAT game

Well I did too, do you not remember my posts?

But peta shouldn't be the flip

Maybe he should? Part of the holistic analysis plan is to see what either townflip indicates about how this game has gone. If a Peta town flip were to reveal the entire team, would that not be worth it?

Dafuq am I reading?

But peta shouldn't be the flip

Maybe he should? Part of the holistic analysis plan is to see what either townflip indicates about how this game has gone. If a Peta town flip were to reveal the entire team, would that not be worth it?

Dafuq am I reading?

Gamma, you really need to explain this.

Hang on: peta, why do you deem Saber's entry into the blue room as less-than-passable?

Any chance you could link or quote that for me?

Hang on: peta, why do you deem Saber's entry into the blue room as less-than-passable?

Any chance you could link or quote that for me?

Do you not have access to the blue room yourself?

Yes but I just skimmed through it and you didn’t make it clear where that comment was coming from, so I assumed it was from the main thread.

Gamma, if you have a link or quote to that post. it would really help me. Peta has most of the posts in the blue room and I couldn’t find it.

I honestly can't tell what the fuck peta sees wrong with saber's posting, actually. idg how it's deflated, I think she had a reasonable post density compared to how much she posted in the main thread before the split decision event came along

Where is this post from Peta? I want to see it. *screaming internally*

saber initially called out infinity's vote on dunn as a potential bus


this is partly problematic because i think saber's posts in the topic were absolutely fucking wretched but i wasn't going to talk myself out of a vote because a suspect was leading it. unwnd was actually looking at other people briefly before the sub out because he suspected saber and didn't want to vote with her

this is basically the most in-depth peta has gone on the subject so far

Oh thanks. I didn’t see what was wrong with her posts but I’m I obviously care alot more about his and everyone else’s current read on me. It doesn’t affect my read on him, since his posting in the blue room read really solvey.

Harley did you read at all during the break? I feel like you haven’t really shown much initiative in really making stuff happen

I find this setup confusing as hell, so not going to argue this. I’m town but if I can’t convince anyone of that, I’m okay with being left behind.

Here's my reasoning: If Gypyx is town, Harley has a good chance of being scum. If Harley is town then the other way around. Makes sense to put both in then

Very simple, you flip me first because I will flip town and then my reads will get taken seriously. It seems that few people are willing to listen to me while I’m alive, so my reads will get the respect they didn’t once I’m dead and I’m good with that.

???
Dwlee is literally trying to flip both you and your strongest SR
Why this attitude?

I want my reads to get listened too and that can’t happen until I’m dead. I don’t think Dwelee’s scum here if that’s what you’re asking?

HQ I’d like if you could engage me here

What do you want me to say? My predecessor was being an idiot, I’m getting sr for entirely nia things and I’m like over it. I just don’t see the point of continuing to bang my head against a brick wall.

Let’s start with this
What do you think of my actions and rationale during the first part of event 2?

@Harley Quinn

It would really help me if you linked or quoted the specific posts your referencing.

@ulya I think peta was looking at Saber shading infinity/skitter/Ydrasse
Also getting real tired of you consistently harping on the same shit from me

When I repped in, all I considered was whether or not I thought that slot would be town. What should have thought more about but didn’t, was if they’re reads were good or not and clearly their Infinity/Ydra reads were really dumb.

HQ I’d like if you could engage me here

What do you want me to say? My predecessor was being an idiot, I’m getting sr for entirely nia things and I’m like over it. I just don’t see the point of continuing to bang my head against a brick wall.

That’s not what’s going on IMO, I feel like a decent chunk of people are willing to give you a chance
It’s just that the content you’ve chosen to provide hasn’t really felt like what you should be giving

Do you have an actual question for me or not? I asked you for specific quotes. I’ll respond to that. I’m done with trying to towncase myself.

Let’s start with this
What do you think of my actions and rationale during the first part of event 2?

@Harley Quinn

It would really help me if you linked or quoted the specific posts your referencing.

Gamma

Here ya go.

My first 4 across would be Cakez, dwlee, Gamma, and then myself, in that order. If no one dies, and game isn't over, well, we at least have something to talk about.

First plan you've given this event that I'm actually pretty OK with.

I’m not. I’d really like to get my top TRs across (myself, peta, Taly, skitter, Ggy)
This plan only just leaves enough room for them and I’d really rather purge as many of my actual SRs as possible rather than people I’m just somewhat worried about atp

How is Ydra not in this list?

Pooky and Ydrasse can be marked as TRs, Ydrasse in “not shooting” territory as well

Did anything change with this Gamma? Why aren’t you voting Ydrasse?

also the plan is still not entirely formed wrt whether we want more or less trusted folks to cross first
as clearly evidenced by you wanting ydrasse (your townread) voted across when me and dwlee are having talks that involve more suspected slots crossing first

I thought we were supposed to vote our most confident trs first. So, should I unvote them then?

also the plan is still not entirely formed wrt whether we want more or less trusted folks to cross first
as clearly evidenced by you wanting ydrasse (your townread) voted across when me and dwlee are having talks that involve more suspected slots crossing first

I thought we were supposed to vote our most confident trs first. So, should I unvote them then?

Gamma, why didn’t you answer this?

why did you assume he meant you, Harley?

Because it was the post right after he said he sr me.

also the plan is still not entirely formed wrt whether we want more or less trusted folks to cross first
as clearly evidenced by you wanting ydrasse (your townread) voted across when me and dwlee are having talks that involve more suspected slots crossing first

I thought we were supposed to vote our most confident trs first. So, should I unvote them then?

Gamma, why didn’t you answer this?

because the topic of conversation moved on (also I didn't see it)

Well I need someone to answer this because I obviously don’t want to put my strongest trs in possible jeopardy.

all these gamma emerald/harley interactions are...so, so, SO,

SO

bad

just...holy fuck

[petapan]

i'm not sure harley gives a read on gemerald ONCE? but there's this "why are you reading me wrong NOT SAYING YOU'RE SCUM THOUGH" at the start, gamma tries to get harley a leg up so many times by asking her questions, did you read, i need you to interact with me, harley is like why are you doing these things gamma, it's the lightest of sus but no actual push

Prism would call it Razzies-tier

[petapan]

I'm going to make a move based on my reading so far. I know the odds of me getting left behind are strong and this game was more voluminous than I expected.

I still feel good about Toog and Skitter being town. I want them across next.

VOTE: Toog

We just had a whole thing where I tracked everyone’s stances on who to leave behind and Toog was definitely one of them, with skitter kinda being decided to be left based on other plans. So I’ll hear this out but it better be good.

Mod: You still have HQ in the list to get across.

Gamma, I feel as if you aren't giving me a chance. It's like pulling teeth to get any response from you. I need you specifically because I feel the game is following your lead and not giving anyone in your pool a chance. This is very problematic given the way the first thirty pages played out.

For instance, gooey is clearly scum coasting. That slot (Galron) was already saved once. Yet Gooey isn't in your pool. Scum don't even have to defend him.

Skitter slot was already spewed town, yet you have a blanket conculsion he should die.

Ulyrana has been slanking which exactly matches Toog's prediction and Toog practically called out Dunn but didn't mention his name. Now that the mood is set, Ulyrana posts because there is a consensus to sheep.

This game has largely gone wrong in the spam. Let's slow it down and reevaluate.

Taly isn't the worst choice to go across next though.

I do think your content is okay but I'm not really gonna be swayed from who I want left behind. The best bet for you this phase is to convince me that out of the 5 names I listed, you're the one who should stick around.

Is there a meaningful difference between this suggestion and just saying we should elim limbait

Can we just lim limbait?

...

wut?

Toog pls

I think you're taking stuff out of context a fair bit

Oh, OK. THANK YOU @Gammagooey

So, aside from my slot.. what are the reads on everyone else?

Ask King Gamma.

His are the only ones that count. Don't bother reading as a simple reading contradicts the narrative.

Is this talking about me or gooey
Either way, I don’t like your tone.

Oh, OK. THANK YOU @Gammagooey

So, aside from my slot.. what are the reads on everyone else?

Ask King Gamma.

His are the only ones that count. Don't bother reading as a simple reading contradicts the narrative.

What do you mean "His are the only ones that count"?? Everyone has their own vote, right?

In theory, but Gamma made it abundantly clear that I was dying regardless of my efforts. Everyone went along despite the obvious reading of the thread. So yeah don't waste your time. You have 80% odds of dying. If you suppose I die, your odds go to 75%.

That is not what I said. I said your best bet was explaining why you should live over A50/FB/Toog/Cakez. 4/5 of those are getting left behind. You wanna avoid the presumes bloodbath, you gotta put in the work.

Also I find it laughable you think everyone is bowing to my reads here. IF THAT WERE THE CASE, INFINITY WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN NOMINATED!

and then tamora's angel comes in, there's acceptance the slot is radioactive waste at this point, it's all textbook last minute bus stuff here, suuuper skeptical of everything, uh uh not good enough, very oddly heightened and like

that entire thing about people bowing to his reads and him getting annoyed with that, it reads so fake, lmao

[petapan]

The leave-outs should be 4 of (TA, Gypyx, Cakez, FB, Toog) IMO atp
A lot of people (or at least definitely Taly and me) were upset at the way event 4 played out so imo everybody that isn’t townblock material who is responsible for that should get axed ASAP

this is notable because GE had skitt as a townread and had been wanting her to cross but when she faded and dropped out of the game there was this...folding, just acquiescing to other people wanting the slot to die because of controversy or whatever

[petapan]

also in more general terms gamma emerald just...isn't solving, lol. hasn't been for a while. has just been saying things and attacking town with...not a lot of reasoning? and this phase he's been a dead fish other than white knighting taly (which is not a towntell, same as how him defending infinity isn't, in particular because he mostly wanted to deflect the blue room vote onto other towns, him saying he'd do skitter before infinity is meaningless when there was no popular support for the vote in the first place)

again i don't want to pull every post from the start of perfect balance where he's trying to murder a town but...there's a lot. compared to him soft defending both flipped scum slots until the replaceouts made them un-salvageable

[petapan]

like let's say this chair thing is something good.

and Gamma is trying to get into the chair because he's a stagehand and he knows the chair is good.[Theory]

Dunnstral is saying the theory is incorrect because Gamma could've just voted himself into the chair but Gamma didn't - hence he can't be a stagehand who wants to get into the chair. [Theory is wrong]

This completely ignores the fact that if Gamma were to vote himself into the chair, and it was something good, Gamma would look hella susp for it, aka the rest of the game when maybe we get a chance to kill him.

So it's not as simple as Dunnstral is making it.

Dunnstral is like

good

at mech, so he should recognize this, but he simplifies it.

That feels informed to me.

Also he ignored Gamma's vote on him completely and chooses to comment on this part without really commenting on actual relevant shit.

I guess I should trust Pooky on Gamma but I want to hear his answer to my Ydrasse question first because I don’t like it that he isn’t voting her.

this fucking post, again

i quoted it once before

"i guess i should trust pooky on gamma"

pooky LITERALLY never gave a read on gamma here

and her method here is...so much different than with everyone else where she just gave some random read based on their posts

why?

because scum love to hide behind townies townreading their partner

it's so totally random

[petapan]

You were/are most likely town aside from myself

excuse me, sir

nyeh heh heh

but also in addition to Gemerald's response to Infinity being wagoned. Does skitter take up the vast majority of page 50 single-handedly derailing a Dunn wagon that Gemerald started if they're both scum together? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13038098

Does Gemerald continue to try to set up a Dunn wagon as his alternative right before he gets nommed for the Throne of Execution? Does Gemerald waffle on skitter for a bit, leave her as a townread midgame, but ultimately decide to leave Firebringer when he could have brought him through instead of Cakez?

If you think so I'm genuinely interested in your reasons for those in particular

so, returning to this:

the reaction to infinity being wagoned is entirely null, scum whiteknighting town is totally common and he would feel obligated to act upset about his friend getting voted out of the game when he knows they're flipping town

of course skitter derails a wagon on a partner if it's a bus vote because skitter will do powerwolfy shit like try to keep her teammates from throwing the game by voting each other early and force a wagon onto a town, proven track record of doing so. she'd derail a dunn wagon regardless of if it was a bus or not i think, has the benefit of potentially confusing associations later in the game

yes of course he tries to set up a dunn wagon as an alternative, nevermind that he was flopping about and flailing with his vote for a while, he has to realize as scum there's a chance he gets executed and confusing associations is the best thing he can do

i had been dead set on flipping the skitter slot all event, that he comes in with the decisive vote on cakez isn't really clearing because if he does save firebringer he just looks worse further down the line, because firebringer would always get flipped thanks to you + me insisting skitter was scum. firebringer was also doing nothing to advance his position, i wouldn't be terribly surprised if he said to just bus him because he didn't feel like trying and was never endgaming

like, trying to save and protect a partner and turning on them last minute is classic scum bus? if he votes for firebringer to cross there's a chance you and i come in and say "hell no" even though at that moment in time i've basically detached myself from the game due to being disgusted with HQ

i'm also not even sure his trajectory on wanting cakez to cross there makes a ton of sense

[petapan]

eh I'm probably at the point where I've seen enough to at least disclose who I want to cross, it's SirCakez
VOTE: SirCakez
I fee like my current view of the gamestate, though still kinda foggy, indicates he's almost certainly town

"my current view of the gamestate" was his only reason

and then he just kinda walked that back in heaven/hell (because there was no one easier to push, certainly not in the townblock)

[petapan]

but here's all his posts PRIOR to that about him scumreading cakez:

ig I can kinda see some of the logic on cakez!town from dunn's ISO that peta pointed out but there's also a good bit I don't like from cakez rn so he's still in my lower tiers
next post is gonna be The Plan.

Strong TRs: (GE, peta, Taly)
Weak TRs: (skitter, Ggy)
In flux: (ydrasse, ulyana)
Weak SRs: (cakez, HQ)
Strong SRs: (dwlee, gypyx, toog)

This is where my reads are basically at atp. Up until just recently cakez and gypyx were switched, but I'm heeding peta a little bit on cakez and I remembered something gypyx posted in the blue room that pings quite a bit now that infinity has flipped town.

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

my desired order would be something like

(whichever of cakez/HQ isn't left out)
ulyana
ydrasse
(skitter+Ggy in either order)
Taly
(me+Peta in either order)

if we wanna do most to least towny for the crossing, basically just flip this order

there's also a good bit I don't like from cakez rn so he's still in my lower tiers

go into it?

I don't like how he went through events 3 and 4 pretty much at all
I'm also worried about how his reads sound, it's a case of "seems logical but not in a definitively town sense", which I had towards cephrir in Radio Buzz
there's another slot I'm of that opinion towards in this game as well somewhat, but I'm more willing to trust that person than I am cakez

1. i'm not sure "seeming logical" is a highlight of cakez's scum play
2. i'm not sure he's actually seemed logical lmao

His reads feel in line with mine to an extent though. So like, you have a point, but because of your point I feel like my Cakez perception is even closer to my perception of Cephrir in Radio Buzz than I did before.

sircakez you silly little man did you bus dunn like you bussed in final fantasy

I didn't even bus in final fantasy

You very much did even if you didn’t push through scum wagons
You were closer to Among Us!Cakez than DotDF!Cakez

Yea gamma you're gonna have to explain how I'm evil here, especially with fucking toog

You consistently had Toog+Cakez in your lower tiers until you reconsidered post-infinity flip, after which they seem to be middle of the pack, and interestingly you’re more okay with leaving out peta who ranks more towny for you than either of those two than you are with leaving one of those two out.
I looked over those scumgames and it seems you have a bit of a history of half-hearted or late-stage bussing. That tracks with your supposed progression on Toog+Cakez.

I initially was thinking the team was explicitly you/Cakez/Toog but there’s still room for either of those to be town, meanwhile you’re definitely scum because your list for this event is straight up wack

Here ya go.

My first 4 across would be Cakez, dwlee, Gamma, and then myself, in that order. If no one dies, and game isn't over, well, we at least have something to talk about.

First plan you've given this event that I'm actually pretty OK with.

I’m not. I’d really like to get my top TRs across (myself, peta, Taly, skitter, Ggy)
This plan only just leaves enough room for them and I’d really rather purge as many of my actual SRs as possible rather than people I’m just somewhat worried about atp

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

my desired order would be something like

(whichever of cakez/HQ isn't left out)
ulyana
ydrasse
(skitter+Ggy in either order)
Taly
(me+Peta in either order)

Why unsure on

HQ/Cakez

?

HQ has been posting a fair amount and working to rectify things wrt her slot, but I feel like she's not doing the exact right things, and her early posting kinda doesn't sit right with me.
I dislike how Cakez was like "my reads have been good this game" post-Dunn flip in an attempt to push infinity when he was pretty confidently SRing Cephrir, and that ended up wrong. I'm willing to give peta some credit for the Dunn associatives though, it's just not enough and there's also a spiteful part of me that wants to disregard it because my infinity townread was dismissed so readily when I gave it in the blue room. But I don't want to be that petty, so I'm giving the TR some due.

How about you pick two and I pick two people to leave behind gamma

I pick skitter and gypyx

well since I can't pick you, then toog and cakez

[petapan]

of course there are over a thousand posts in between those, but it's all stuff where gamma is talking about the plan or whatever, asking other people about their reads

here's never any indication of where his read on cakez shifts, it's literally just all of a sudden "my current view of the gamestate" where suddebnly he's okay with saving someone who was previously a strong scumread and leaving behind someone who was a townread

the trajectory is utterly fucked. it's not a reason to clear gamma, it's actually one of the many good reasons why he is scum

[petapan]

AND ONE MORE THING is that if you look at how gamma treated, say, dwlee, where he had this ridiculous incredibly long tunnel on them, even when people generally agreed dwlee was towntelling and had been responsible for dunn being in the duel, gamma kept pushing them and giving little leeway, it was a very persistent read

whereas if you look at the interactions gamma had with dunn/saber post-chair, there was maybe a little bit of pushing, then an "eh, ok". he was SO MUCH MORE CHARITABLE toward the flipped scum slots than all the townies he was pushing to kill

[petapan]

ffs

i am not trying to ridicule you

i am being as fair and mild and i possibly can with you

this is what is so frustrating with you, you have the slightest interaction with gammagooey and you start saying you're tilted


i just...don't see the reason for it?

like i'm really trying to give you space here

and i don't like having everything be interpreted as a personal attack

[petapan]

and i just spent an entire page of posts burying gamma emerald

so no i don't really think it's you

[petapan]

man i am going to come across like an asshole by saying this

but taly, what i am saying is that your pov throws out 200+ pages of historical record for an in the moment read that is based solely on situational things that can easily come from town just as much as scum (and frankly, misrepresent gammagooey in my view).

and i have already demonstrated how that is bad process and leads to things like townleaning firebringer for doing absolutely nothing where the historical record left by skitter was pretty scummy

this is in addition to you, like, leaning into all this emotional appeal stuff which is just confusing from a town pov

i don't want to seem like i'm giving you the freezeout but i do disagree and have to explain why in detail

i do understand if you're town your pov has to be considered but there are also multiple dead towns who were suspicious of gamma emerald and i have to look back and consider those views too

[petapan]

and when i give you the floor to make your own case you get unnecessarily hostile

frankly it's exhausting

[petapan]

you said me describing you as erratic "hurts to read" and that doing so would possibly be offensive beyond a game level

you accused me of "dismissing and ridiculing you", and you could say the former is true, because i am unconvinced by your analysis, but i believe i have tried to explain why, but i am not ridiculing you


it is irritating to play this game when mild language gets accused of being a personal attack when i am trying to be fair

it's the same with saying gammagooey is tilting you when that post was entirely reasonable

it's like anything that disputes you at all gets accused of being mean and it's impossible to work with

[petapan]

okay

rather than digging further into this, i'm going to give you space, again


you can make your case when you have the time

that is what i am trying to allow you to do

but if you start making things personal/emotional rather than game related again, i'm going to shut it down because i have no desire to deal with it if that's how you respond to disagreement



so here it is, the floor is yours, i've said what i wanted to say, explored what i wanted to explore

[petapan]

i will try to be respectful if i feel the need to express disagreement

[petapan]

taly, i am trying to state points and review the game (sometimes without a purpose in mind) and you respond by getting emotional rather than telling me why i am wrong

i have tried to tell you why i do not agree with

your

reasons and you have overreacted to that

i try to give you the floor to make your case and you give me a pile of frustration rather than any arguments

can you see why this is so difficult for me to deal with?

you keep insisting i am being unfair, but i'm not even sure you've actually given consideration to all the work i've tried to put in

[petapan]

the game is a two way street

i have made it clear that i am open discussion but i need reasons and not this

[petapan]

ummmmm we kind of have to decide i think who’s dying in ~two days

VOTE: NAY

so i can be formally on the record

i have said a lot on this, but there is probably more i can say about ydrasse's posts themselves and why i do not think she is scum, and am fairly confident she is town

[petapan]

can i possibly get a sanity check from a third party here on this dialogue

[petapan]

in fairness my perspective did shift significantly from thinking "taly might be scum adopting an unreasonable stance because he cannot find another one" back to thinking gamma emerald makes the most sense as i went into reviewing things, but i feel like the evolution of that thought is not hard to track

[petapan]

i went back through and compiled your stated reasons in-thread, and i will try to respond to them as best i can

[petapan]

I rlly hope this last event is just standard nightless because I think peta has good points but it’s just not me here, I just had a really shit game in the end.

i mean, it's interesting you say i have good points, because earlier you said your play in the perfect balance event should make you obvious town, i believe. so i dunno what changed


but regardless, it is not about who has played a good game or a bad game - qualitatively, i wouldn't even say you have played a bad game - you were right on dunn early, right on infinity when most of the blue room was terribly wrong, and you made the call to send cakez as the last one across, leaving two of the scum behind. sure, you waffled on the read after the crossing, but so did all of us.

the issue is not good or bad but whose play makes sense from a scum perspective. and that is where i am having trouble with you.

ydrasse for instance, has not been particularly accurate this game (no slight intended). but i can still find reasons for her being town that i believe are good. i think there are parts of her play that make more sense coming from an uninformed perspective. i have trouble saying the same for you, because there are so many points where your play around flipped scum players is odd.

of course, town can have good reads that they back off on. town can have unseen progressions. my revelation on dunnstral was pretty abrupt. but on the whole it feels like there's so many points where you've had scum in youer PoE but were hesitant to actually push them, and that your reads have shifted more in accordance with the thread. and i have a hard time seeing that coming from a town perspective.

i could be wrong, of course. maybe this is a next-level troll by taly. then i'll look foolish shortly, but i'm okay with that. but i have reasons to doubt there, i can look at stuff taly did and see it coming from scum but can also see it coming from town. and so i have to look at contingencies

[petapan]

Peta, what do you think is more likely?

Gamma-scum wanted to kill off potential mislim Galron and scum stopped this to protect themselves. It could be inferred that Galron was a framing, if Gamma is scum here, but why wasn't that a point of discussion in the duel?

Or

Gamma-town was right in the ballpark of susaing a lot of slots that scum both wanted to kingmake, but they felt a sabotage would be the most effective way at protecting them?

i would be relatively surprised if skitter went all in on bussing galron on day 1 over a town counterwagon while protecting dunn so hard - she'd just as likely bus dunn where he was an easy kill

(if it was a bus, i wouldn't have expected dunn to hang back)

[petapan]

there's something that sprung up in my memory as i was driving - gamma emerald, in the blue PT you listed skitter above infinity in your townreads, but when the wagon momentum swung toward infinity, you protested and said you'd be more willing to compromise on skitter, and even used infinity's reads as justification for suspecting skitter. why is that?

[petapan]

i get that reads are variable and prone to shifting and list placement is never exact, people's minds can shift around

but it feels like you were SO MUCH more confident on infinity-town than skitter-town

[petapan]

Also peta if you’re going to play dirty I think it’s only fair to bring up how HQ’s actions affected me. I know her personally and yet she actually said a couple things that felt wounding for me. I’d actually had talks with her before she replaced in because I needed to release the dam on my emotional distress and then she comes in saying how “people who push people out of games make her sick”, and I just feel like I’ve been stabbed in the back!

gamma, i went over the stuff she said to you. it looked theatery. i don't think this was some high level attempt to frame you. not by how basic a lot of her other reads turned out.

[petapan]

i think the dwlee kill was because they were the first to cross and it was simple as that

[petapan]

I mean, it's hard to really define any vote in Event 1 as bussing because while we believed it was to hurt a scumread, the team could've known it was for something good

So a motive on why scum was either on a buddy or limbaity is hard to identify.

i mean, but byond that, skitter wanted the duel to be unwnd/dunn in event 2, which just seems...like way too much bussing?

and by comparison skitter's pushes on dunn/saber were significantly weaker than when she went after a town

[petapan]

the assumption is that unwnd would be in some sort of antispew, and...i dunno, i'm not sure of it. i don't get why he calls out saber at all in that case. the saber/dunn unaligned take is almost too on the nose. i can build myself a narrative for it if i stare hard enough but i don't know how much of that is forcing it

every indication i can get is that scum were playing the game of calling each other out but not being forceful in pushing for eliminations, for the most part. one of the two was probably a bus target but the question is as to when? and the galrunwooey slot has overall been forcefully calling for scum elims where gemerald has...not been

[petapan]

Hmmmm. That weakens my stance but I don't think skitter is afraid to bus that much as scum.

afraid to bus, no, certainly not

but it's not a first resort from everything i've seen

[petapan]

rereadin the unwnd iso

having trouble seeing his scumgame in here

i might want to review, but

[petapan]

and the galrunwooey slot has overall been forcefully calling for scum elims where gemerald has...not been

I find the former mentality more likely informed in practice.

not when GE has 2 scum is his POE on day 1/2 but doesn't follow up on them

[petapan]

Hmmmm. That weakens my stance but I don't think skitter is afraid to bus that much as scum.

afraid to bus, no, certainly not

but it's not a first resort from everything i've seen

Are you presuming this by a standard of a normal mafia game or do you think it's just always unusual for scum to super-bus their first chance?

Because I've seen it happen before.

it depends significantly on the type of player

i do it if i feel my teammate has shot themselves in the foot, for instance. there are some people who bus just for the sake of bussing. some people try to avoid bussing because they feel it is tactically inadvisable. nothing is absolute, you have to weigh things through the lens of ho that player generally plays

given the gamestate skitter actually leading the charge on galron was very strange if it was otherwise a runaway town wagon


and for instance i think prposing a dunn/unwnd duel for the second event has a very obvious tactical benefit, skitt can look like she's pushing dunn, but with no actual vote there it's possible town chooses a different counterwagon. it's just stuff like that, stuff that suggests skitt was in the classic plan of call out your teammates but don't push them too hard unless you have to

and to that end the saber/skittr dynamic suggests the plan was for skitt to go deep, but unwnd slot would be fairly contradicting that? it all just seems very blah

[petapan]

ydra when you get a chance maybe look over unwnd's iso again? i could use some fresh eyes because i've conf-biased myself on him

do need to thoroughly review the previous game occupants

the saber/dnn unaligned read from unwnd is so wild, so on the nose if scum

[petapan]

i dont think anyone thinks youre scum except maybe gooey :<

Not saying this as some sort of voodoo reverse psychology bullshit to save my ass (because I know it won't work)

I just don't know how this is anything but "Taly has more WIFOM and less reason to clear than Ydra" VS "Taly is just the final scum"

And that's why I can't believe Ggy actually believes I'm scum because he doesn't feel regret or a reason to rethink here.

that's fine for you to think

I'm not going to get past your play in regards to the pink PT and how you prevented a Saber nomination that scum was pushing for, and that you never took me or anyone else seriously enough to follow through on the skitter suspicions you said you had during the InfinityvsPeta event that weren't brought up again when skitter or Fire was in actual danger from the crossing event.

do you think taly is advanced lolcatting right now or something

[petapan]

AtEing to the best of his ability and hoping that someone will find it town enough to vote Ydrasse over them.

the thought did cross my mind

props to you if you made this post while being informed

[petapan]

AtEing to the best of his ability and hoping that someone will find it town enough to vote Ydrasse over them.

the thought did cross my mind

props to you if you made this post while being informed

And then what? Ydra flips town and I as scum have to hope for a good event 10 to win?

I've lost if I'm scum, but not as town, even upon dying this phase, which i will not stop.

yeah i know it's just one of those silly thoughts that flash by, obviously i'm playing this as though you're preflipped green

[petapan]

i feel like me posting right now is just adding to the noise level and not doing much

[petapan]

don't love that

[petapan]

anyway been rereading galron's iso

still hate it tbh, lol

i feel like though he'd almost be more concerned with faking stances as scum and doing...something, where here he did fuckall

[petapan]

man his posting is awful, i don't give a damn

[petapan]

heya, i've skimmed the past 20 pages.

i think until/unless we have good reason to believe the chair is anything but a flip, we should just treat it as such.

gamma's tilt itself i don't really find scummy and can see coming from either alignment from him. but i don't like that his thought process doesn't really seem to match his actions, there were a few different instance of him calling people scummy but choosing someone else to vote (like choosing to vote pooky over pooky's solve that he agreed with, etc). also he was a shining beacon of towniness in radio buzz and i'm kinda wondering where that's gone and what's different here.

i also find infinity and dwlee suspicious. infinity feels weirdly stilted and kinda floating on the edge of things in a way that's reminiscent of her scumgame, and i think that if gamma is scum infinity is a viable partner.
dwlee is leaning too hard on the 'i have no idea what's going on here' bit.
(also ydra feels kinda off but i'd feel a little bad poking there too much atm so uh just gonna wait and see if her wim comes back soon-ish as it isn't a Critical part of the game just yet).

ulyana it's always so Exciting to find another incarnation of shiki in a game i think ur thought process r.e. what the chair is and prism is v townie for you

pooky is maybe town?
i don't really have thoughts on anybody else yet

VOTE: gamma

this looks like a bus lmao

didn't even realize skitter got into the game later and this was her 4th post with a wagon well underway

[petapan]

like contextually it all makes way too much sense

also immediately trying to preflip associate GE with infinity is >rand a read on a partner

i think her treatment of the two is...very unequal

[petapan]

skitter has every reason to want to get in on the ground floor of a bus and much less reason to wagon hop a townie who's already a runaway vote, esp. when she has to fear being accused of opportunism

[petapan]

Decision 1.8
Gamma Emerald [8]: Gypyx, Cephrir, PookyTheMagicalBear, Ydrasse,

Saber

,

skitter30

, ulyana,

Dunnstral

Cephrir [1]: SirCakez
petapan [1]: Toogeloo
ulyana [1]: Gamma Emerald

Not Voting [5]: Taly, petapan, Galron, Infinity 324, Dwlee99

With 16 contestants remaining, it takes 9 votes to place a player in the chair. If deadline is reached, plurality is in effect.

The deadline for this decision is in: (expired on 2021-10-12 01:43:44).

there's exactly one tenet of VCA i actually believe in

and that is that a day 1 scum wagon in a large game is always filthy. every single time. without exception. i will mine data on this

now this doesn't necessarily mean that scum going all in on a day 1 wagon means it's a bus but i feel, without doing research, it's >>rand a wagon on scum? normally

someone

is posturing off-wagon for towncred. that they weren't here, when there wasn't even a counterwagon, feels notable

if we hypothesize that scum knew the throne was a kingmaker...why were none of them seemingly afraid of getting retaliated on?

[petapan]

gonna read the quotes that were pulled now that things aren't so noisy

[petapan]

If Gamma is scum, then the only teammate he protected was Skitter, and he did so without needing to justify why.

Okay, and? That'd be largely consistent with play from the other flipped scum slots, distance from each other, don't attack skitter too much unless she's trying to distance with you

However, Saber, Dunn, and Galron were all in his PoE. That's an alarming 3 out of 4 scum if Galron is scum here.

i understand that hypothetical POV, but isn't it just as easily explainable by gamma being informed? Like, I don't want to quote Prism again, but seriously, he has a point

It's also notable to look at Gamma's progression. I feel like his reasons for shooting Dunn/Galron outweighed Dwlee/Toog in terms of what was likelier sxunplay here. Not to say that Galron is scum, but I I saying that if Galrob is scum, the scumteam was privy to a very high possibility to having one of their own shot and couldn't even clearly tell who by Gamma's posting alone.

So a sabotage makes sense for Gamma-town if you believe Galron could've been scum.

And the only reason I could consider Gamma-scum being possible here is if the team just wanted to distance from Gamma.... because they used up a sabotage when a towny was most likely getting shot.

i mean, my problem here is that you're all looking only at the angles from which Galron-scum is possible

and i admit that's not a completely implausible narrative. but it feels like you're not weighing the possibilities equally. like, yes, scum could want to sabotage to protect a teammate...but then, why was skitter trying to throw galron under the bus in the first place if they didn't want him to flip? why spend a sabotage saving a teammate just to bus him in the next phase by putting him in a duel and trying to get him to duel with dunn or saber? the entire thing would be borderline gamethrow levels of scumplay and while there are some players on this site who would javelin throw against their team like that, skitter is too smart for that

it requires so many pieces to be put in place for the scum's plan that just seem bizarre and counterintuitive

whereas the much simpler explanation is: the scum burned a sabotage on event one to kill pooky because skitter has nightmares of the teddy bear when she goes to sleep. they use the WIFOM from galron being targeted to try to set up a chain mis-elim in the next event phase

[petapan]

and for context on skitter's vote on Gamma: she recently lost two games as scum where her teammate went over day 1 while she was V/LA (i was her teammate in one, i made a bad decision because i was was afraid of a runaway wagon. we lost). getting in and seeing a runaway wagon on a partner, she'd absolutely panic-bus because she doesn't want to get steamrolled again (easier in a mountainous game to bus too since no worries about PRs, although pseudo-nightless makes it a degree harder)

but if it slowed down and town started second-guessing...she'd go for the gutsy play and try for a counterwagon on town. and that narrative just makes far much more sense here

[petapan]

every time gamma emerald posts he looks like he's struggling to come up with excuses and every time gammagooey posts he looks like someone who is somehow not aware that taly will flip town

[petapan]

i mean, right before the heaven/hell pts i was pointing out how weird things were regarding gamma emerald so i err towards that being scum

i feel bad for leaving him as a blind spot for so long

i dunno he's good at posting things that look fine in the moment and i suck for ignoring the warning signs


but also i was really so mentally withdrawn from the game until TA flipped, i seriously feel like a weighted vest got taken off me

[petapan]

and I'd tell her to fuck off w that noise because I'm pretty sure I was also her partner in one of those instances and I feel like going into damage control mode is just, not how you play that sort of thing?

oh right you were lol

well it's not like you can tell her what to do and she did try to dismantle the wagon later

[petapan]

thinking about it, I cannot condone what peta did by deliberately leaning on personal conflict as a point to clear him, there was plenty else to go on but he chose to knowingly abuse that interaction for personal gain.

good, come at me

might be a more workable angle for you than gammagooey

[petapan]

i don't respect people who try to invoke their mental health as a defense against being scumread

[petapan]

it completely sabotages game integrity because it leaves no fair way for me to interact with a player who is claiming that

i was dead serious when i told her not to engage with me after that

unless you think i faked that (fucking christ) this argument is irrelevant

[petapan]

i mean if you think utterly piggish behavior like that is acceptable in mafia games because it's your friend doing it, that's your prerogative but i don't agree

[petapan]

i would personally prefer it if people did NOT try to abuse claims of mental health issues in games to gain an advantage as that creates an exceptionally toxic environment for games, in my opinion

[petapan]

this isn't really relevant to the scope of the game before us, anyway. maybe there's a discussion for postgame but i feel i've made myself clear and said what i would've said then

if you think i'm scum, case me. if not, there's no point to this.

[petapan]

i'm not going to hold my tongue about how i feel about toxic behavior to gain an ingame advantage, sorry. if the friction bothers you, deal with it

p-edit: was gonna ask you to vote so we can move on, thank you

[petapan]

And peta, please correct me if I'm overstepping my bounds here

But I don't think Gamma-scum is so apt to make a moralistic viewpoint out of your interaction with HQ. If he were scum wanting to invalidate a solid universal townread of you, he had so many more arguments.

I'm not at all weighing in on the personal.aspects.

I just think Gemerald being uninformed of HQ is a likelier mentality for his defense than just hedging on an otherwise doomed and universally scumread partner.

I could be wrong, it is valid for you to dismiss my entire thought process on this towncase on Gamma more thab anything, but this is what i think.

i think scum have every reason to get upset at me trying to clear myself off that as they'd be salted at what they probably saw as an unfair advantage.

but i think that was probably something that hit on a personal level regardless of alignment. so i don't think it's really alignment indicative.

[petapan]

Peta, when I die, please don't ignore my 1v1 with Ggy

i won't. i see what you are saying. your perspective makes sense and i can see a narrative that fits here. i'll look it over closely.

[petapan]

VOTE: Yay

[petapan]

I stand by the statements I made last night that players using claims of harm to their mental health to gain an ingame advantage is unethical. I do not respect such plays. I went back and checked my own posts toward her and I was entirely diplomatic toward her. I accused scum of being scum, and they fired back a loaded accusation at me. I think it is entirely within my right to claim this should make me obvious town.

[petapan]

had a post but saving it for later. need to research skitter. actions ingame need to be viewed through the lens of the player and their own personality/tendencies. have some assumptions but don't want to jump to conclusions.

[petapan]

[petapan]

was going to deep dive for patterns before i remembered that scum PTs exist

lolme

relaxing my mind by immersing myself in old games i was not a part of



i wonder what skitter was thinking putting me up for the pink room nomination given she was pretty well in my blind spot prior to that. what a blunder.

somewhat suspect the scum pt for this game is never seeing the light of day though

[petapan]

i don't mean what she was pretending to think i mean why she

actually

did it

[petapan]

Decision 1.11
Galron [8]:

skitter30

, Dwlee99, Ydrasse, Infinity 324, petapan, SirCakez, Gamma Emerald, Toogeloo
Gamma Emerald [5]: Cephrir, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Saber

, ulyana,

Dunnstral

ulyana [1]: Galron

Not Voting [2]: Taly, Gypyx

[petapan]

neither of saber or dunn posted before ydrasse pivoted back to gamma so not as interesting as i thought

[petapan]

[petapan]

just write up a legacy with reads and reasoning, restate your case

[petapan]

i mean, you don't have to do that unless you think it's necessary. just make your points as you see fit, can be concise if you don't want to write a lot (that'd probably help with clarity, even)

[petapan]

we're probably going to be here a while waiting on a replacement anyway

[petapan]

unless your argument is that it is exactly ydrasse, it doesn't matter if you think taly is town, unfortunately. we're locked in.

[petapan]

i appreciate you taking on this slot

[petapan]

you have 4 days to slowroll it if you like. you can backread a little to see peoples' thoughts. i'm expecting you to bring the thunder.

[petapan]

i mean i don't have any reason to think ydra is town but i'd rather check other slots first

check the event rules - the flip is forced between those two

[petapan]

this of course doesn't prevent you from reading me/gammagooey, i'm just saying

i am very confident ydrasse is town, gammagooey is tunneled on taly, taly is convinced it's gammagooey. so.

[petapan]

ah right i see what you mean. am i right in thinking we have two elims left?

pedit: yeah i gotchu

we don't know! the events are unknown to us before they are announced. we only know that the event after this is the final one, and that

someone

must die today. the votes on ydrasse are locked in so it's one elimination maximum. gammagooey is always going to be voting yea here and ydrasse will self-pres, so...yeah

[petapan]

Peta would it be bad form if I dug up last night's shit because I can't imagine Ggy-town making most of his posts?

do what you like, taly. reading it now

[petapan]

Oh darling, just you wait

i mean

are you actually enjoying the interactions we're having at this point? If you are then keep on keeping on but otherwise I feel like we can drop the cheekiness and the emojis.

I'm just tired of the game at this point. no offense meant to Morning Tweet b/c I think the flavor and theme are amazing but everyone except Ydrasse and me feels like they're incensed and bitter in various different ways.
maybe incensed isn't the right word for it but some feeling of combining energized and outraged.

i'm doing fine tbh

[petapan]

my motivation levels have actually been significantly higher than they were for the last 2 events, as i finally got the flips i wanted. despite my bravado about trying hard, i realized it's very easy to take my head out of a game by making it unpleasant to think about

however, finding out two singular scumreads when the game was at 9:3 is legitimately energizing. i rarely have reads that good.


anyway, the page before this one is seen and heard.

despite all the tribulations, the game as a mystery to be solved has been entertaining for me. probably worth making a mafia discussion post about how to scumhunt in endgame, depending on how it turns out

also, i get to write a post about skitter. that's going to be fun.

[petapan]

Oh darling, just you wait

i mean

are you actually enjoying the interactions we're having at this point? If you are then keep on keeping on but otherwise I feel like we can drop the cheekiness and the emojis.

I'm just tired of the game at this point. no offense meant to Morning Tweet b/c I think the flavor and theme are amazing but everyone except Ydrasse and me feels like they're incensed and bitter in various different ways.
maybe incensed isn't the right word for it but some feeling of combining energized and outraged.

i'm doing fine tbh

really, i've been great?

don't know how much attention you're paying to my posts if you think i'm outraged! i have feelings toward certain events in this game but for the most part i'm just analyzing very hard and that should be obvious!

[petapan]

My thoughts on Gemerald are that a LOT of his pushes seem genuine, and I think he's played as I think a lot of townies do - fairly bullheaded with a focus on how people are reacting to his specific opinions and expecting people to either follow him or specifically convince him, not necessarily the game as a whole, that their opinions are correct and that he, Gemerald, should follow them.

i suppose i should address this

these aren't really good reasons to townread someone?

"seems genuine" is vague. it can be said about anything. in my reread, i didn't really agree at all that he seemed genuine. i didn't get into strong detail on most of the pushes in particular, but this by itself is nothing. this was the sort of thing DV riffed on in team mafia 2021, how people were just saying "reck seems town" without any real reasoning behind it.

i think being bullheaded and focused on how people are reacting to opinions are personality traits at best, and have little to do with alignment. there's no real reason scum can't play that way. like, expecting people to follow him or be convinced is town...why? scum want people to follow them. they'll pretend to be open to being convinced if it suits their interests.

the thing is with scum, you are looking for someone who is knowingly advancing the scum win condition with their play. not the stuff you are saying here.

[petapan]

I could still be wrong about Taly being scum, I just still think they make much more sense as scum than anyone else in the game. Your idea of the scumteam seems to be that they went all-out in bussing Gemerald at the start,

let him bus basically everyone but skitter back immediately

and eventually bussing Fire at the end of the crossing.

also, dude, how do you think scumteams work? people generally don't ask for permission before writing every post unless they're extremely lacking in self-confidence. the "throw a bunch of shade at your buddies to distance when it looks like you're going down" maneuver is super common. if that's the route someone getting piled on early goes, their team can't do much about it.

[petapan]

does anyone have some juicy interactions with some flipped scum

yeah but unfortunately they're with your slot

[petapan]

i would describe my own interactions with the scum as "spicy" or perhaps "bitter"

[petapan]

i don't find reading games in endgame that hard, even if they're long

here's a big secret: you can skip all the posts by the people who died and flipped town, they don't matter anymore

the posts that matter are the ones from people that are alive and from the flipped scum

doing that speeds things up immensely

[petapan]

however, Page 151 is extremely toxic, and i don't recommend reading it, ever

definitely skip that one

[petapan]

anyway good morning



just padding my postcount at this point but heard this new order classic on the radio this morning and felt like posting it

[petapan]

i dunno like you don't need to case the person that's getting flipped any more lmao

[petapan]

to be clear, gamma emerald chose to bring the discussion where he did, on a page where i had been exclusively focused on analyzing other players.

i chose to stand my my ground and speak to my principles, and i do not regret doing so. he made a loaded accusation toward me that is absolutely untrue and a gross distortion of my play. the claim was that i prized winning over the feelings of others, when all i had done was (correctly) accuse a player of being scum and got vitriol and intensely manipulative statements directed back at me. i care greatly about the feelings of others in games. that is why i was so appalled by harley quinn's actions: i believe such play, while understandable from a perspective of playing to one's win condition, creates an absurdly unhealthy game environment for other players and should not be considered acceptable.

complaining about "the interactions" is to create a false equivalency that values "civility" over having any sort of principle, that frames me as an agitator simply for standing my ground when gamma emerald chose to frame me as the bad guy for standing against tactics i see as unethical

[petapan]

and if you don't wanna get hit with that, don't bring it up

[petapan]

When I'm scum I usually try to make plans to make myself/other scumbuddies look good in the long-run, something like "try to distance each other early/mid-day but end on town wagons", or "X is our scumbuddy and is probably getting elim'd today, if you think you can jump their wagon without looking scummy for it then do it". For Taly I can imagine some potential discussions with skitter in a scum PT about how they wanted to interact and who they were going to push and why. For Gemerald I have a harder time imagining what a skitter/Gemerald convo in the scum PT would look like aside from early game.
And yeah I doubt this is going to convince you of Gemerald's innocence but this is more posting my thoughts on the game at this point than trying to convince people to see things my way.

i'm not really saying the narrative for taly is impossible although there's enough little things that make me doubt it. but it's not worth quibbling over, because like i said, the flip is predetermined now. we'll see who's right.

on day 1 in particular i think things tend to be chaotic: the relationships between players in the game are not yet established and everyone is sort of jockeying for positioning. there's never really a

plan

on day 1, you have to see how things shake out and kind of play it by ear. if a teammate catches heat early, you have to make the difficult call of whether to bus or hold off and hope they can shake off the pressure. getting caught on the wrong side of history can be potentially fatal, but panic-bussing can often put you in a hole that is too hard to dig out of, as i experienced firsthand in mini normal 2224.

this is sort of relevant moreso to how i'm reading your slot vs. GE's slot, anyway

i don't really think the post Event 1 narrative is that hard to understand, either, but i don't know how much i want to get into that right now. maybe after i write the skitter post.

[petapan]

to be clear, the "come at me" was because i had interpreted that post as an attempted pivot toward calling me scum.

[petapan]

i don't really have a desire for extended civility discourse either, and would prefer to keep discussions germane to the task of solving the game, but i do feel the need to stand my ground when an accusation is levied at me.

[petapan]

well, either relevant to solving the game or something purely off topic to pass the days while we wait for the deadline to tick down, like music/movies/tv shows/games/books. i'm perfectly okay with idle chatter right now.

[petapan]

the evolution of skitter's scumgame is funny

it's like

i suck at this i'm never going to be any good -> get a big win unexpectedly -> i guess i just got lucky -> keep winning games -> win dc -> win even more -> oh shit i might actually be good at this


which is almost exactly the exact same path i took, coincidentally

except i forgot how to play and was terrible and retired for 5 years prior to the last steps. but, small differences.

her big wins are better than mine tho, i just like beating up on bad towns