Mini 1349: Words with Scum (Game over!)

[Arugula]

VOTE: DCLXVI
for not remembering that he played with me before.

Also, I think it would be wise for town to pick without flipping. If they are flipped first, it might seem obvious that someone gained a PR based on the tiles they collected, and scum would probably kill them.

[Arugula]

I don't like IceGuy's wishy-washy stance on Hoopla, but his original plan was good, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

I think all of the ladies in this game are town. (Hoopla, LDD, Amrun)

Also, I have a new plan. There might be a major flaw in this, but I haven't found one besides scum getting town letters, which won't help scum, just hinder town slightly.

Everyone flips before anyone takes. Then, players say what they are going to pick before they do so and we organize who will pick what tile. If someone picks a scummy letter, [S, N, J, etc] (which nobody will since it would virtually be suicide) then we know they are scum. Since no one would pick these letters, we keep powers like Ninja and Strongman from scum's hands. Also, no one should pick an unflipped letter, as that is the only way that scum would get their hands on these powers. Scummy players will get the bad tiles.

I'm preparing to be ripped apart for this, but oh well.

[Arugula]

Arugula, your plan is the same as IceGuy's, which isn't inherently scummy,

It's not exactly the same, although it is similar.

but passing it off as your own plan is sketch,

Why? It doesn't help me if the plan is mine or not. Scum can present a good or bad plan.

and you're way too worried about what people think

People have been pretty harsh in this game, and if I really cared that much about what others thought of me, I would not have put it out there.[/quote]

and have no conviction.

Is that scummy?

Flip D:2

[Arugula]

@Amrun
That's all you have to say? Yes it's scummy?

@DCL
Basically, my response to you would have been "I wasn't trying to cover my ass and I didn't realize how similar my plan was to IceGuy's" and you would've said "Bullshit." There isn't anything I can really refute and prove.

@Voided
Whoa, post 112 is scummy as hell. Your original assumption of the meaning of my last sentence was correct. But then after Amrun says something different, you change your vote to me based on semantics? Even if my intention was what Amrun thinks, why does that incriminate me?

UNVOTE: DCL
VOTE: Voidedmafia

[Arugula]

@Voided
Fair enough, but that wasn't my intention and that does not mean I am scum, just underconfident town.

@Amrun
That is not a misrep. The only thing you said directed to me in that post was "yes, it's scummy".


P-edit: DCL, what do you want me to do about it now? I felt your case was more cut and dry, where you would have just said no to my explanation while Amrun's had more that I could explain.

[Arugula]

But it wasn't answering some of the questions I posed in my post.

[Arugula]

Questions, points, etc

Basically I was expecting Amrun to respond more, and I don't like the way she chumped me off and claimed it as a misrep.

[Arugula]

I did ask why, which was in reference to why using IceGuy's plan as my own (which I didn't do, at least not purposely) is scummy.

Also, I was just expecting you to respond to non-questions too, but you are responding all stuck-up and acting like I'm an idiot.

[Arugula]

Your explanation is for your no conviction point.

Why is it scummy (or "sketch" as you put it) that I (either purposely or accidentally) used IceGuy's plan as my own?

[Arugula]

But as scum, why would I try to pass it off as my own instead of just saying "IceGuy's plan is the best" or something like that?

Is it that hard to accept the fact I made an honest mistake in not realizing my plan was similar to IceGuy's?
Is it that hard to accept that after having my previous plan beaten to death, I was a little wary of posting another one simply because I didn't want to come off as incompetent?

Your case on me is more complex than what it actually is.

P-edit:
@DCL
When I posted my first plan, I didn't fully understand how the game worked, and I admit it is anti-town now. The reason for that little "qualifier" was genuinely that I was almost afraid of posting another plan because the last one was ripped apart and not good at all. I wasn't trying to put down the plan, I was just ready for backlash because of the backlash from the other one. I genuinely thought and still think my plan is pro-town.

[Arugula]

I know. But what I am asking is why would I try to pass it off as my own instead of just cheering it on?

[Arugula]

You are being too stubborn and condescending to realize that you are wrong.

Hopefully others will see I genuinely did not realized my plan was so similar to IceGuy's and that my last sentence was because of the previous backlash, not becausey plan was weak.

[Arugula]

There's also the issue now that if scum have letter stealing capability

they can snag it from LLD. Flip before you collect. Leave scummy letters on the board. I'd rather people took an invisible letter rather than a flipped scummy one.

Since when can scum steal letters? When was the idea ever brought up?

Scumslip?

Is it that hard to accept the fact I made an honest mistake in not realizing my plan was similar to IceGuy's?
Is it that hard to accept that after having my previous plan beaten to death, I was a little wary of posting another one simply because I didn't want to come off as incompetent?

These could both still come from scum. They are not towntells.

They aren't scumtells either.

@DCL
When I posted my first plan, I didn't fully understand how the game worked, and I admit it is anti-town now. The reason for that little "qualifier" was genuinely that I was almost afraid of posting another plan because the last one was ripped apart and not good at all. I wasn't trying to put down the plan, I was just ready for backlash because of the backlash from the other one. I genuinely thought and still think my plan is pro-town.

Why did you post one then if you were "almost afraid"? Why not read the other plans carefully? Why do you have to be the ring leader?

I posted it because I wanted to contribute and I thought my plan was good.
I did read the other ones carefully, I just lost track of how IceGuy's was so similar.
I don't have to be the ringleader, and clearly I am not. When did I ever say that I had to be the ringleader?

[Arugula]

Sorry, I was looking in the role PMs for that. I thought you were talking about a scum-only ability.

I don't mind following IceGuy's plan. Had I realized that it was so similar, I would not have posted mine and I would have just cheered on IceGuy's.

[Arugula]

@Robocopter
I just forgot to unvote.
UNVOTE: Voidedmafia
Although it is strange that you are pointing that out and not Voided.

You need to rethink that stance. I don’t find Hoopla scummy.

Why is your vote idle if you find Hoopla objectionable?

Because I don't consider her scummy enough to want her lynched (especially as her towniness has been increasing with every subsequent post). I just don't want to give her a powerful letter at this point.

What happened to this? I thought Hoopla was getting more and more town, and not scummy enough for a lynch. What did Hoopla do between that post and now that made her lynch-worthy?

Also, Amrun has posted plenty to get a read on her. I personally think she is town, so most of your whispersilk case is false.

VOTE: IceGuy
And to everyone else,
Hoopla is not on my wagon. Whispersilk's 3 null reads are on the people on my wagon besides Amrun, not Hoopla.

[Arugula]

What happened to this? I thought Hoopla was getting more and more town, and not scummy enough for a lynch. What did Hoopla do between that post and now that made her lynch-worthy?

She kept pushing bad plans. #171.

Also, Amrun has posted plenty to get a read on her. I personally think she is town, so most of your whispersilk case is false.

Did you actually read her posts? Or did you just make something up out of thin air so you could vote me?

Why is Hoopla's plan bad? Is that enough to lynch her?

And yes, I did read Amrun's posts. DID YOU SEE THE WHOLE ARGUMENT WE HAD? Obviously you didn't see it or you would have known that.

[Arugula]

I disagree with Hoopla's plan being bad, but I won't pressure you on that anymore.

But your Amrun nonsense is crap. So you are saying that I shouldn't have a townread on her BECAUSE SHE APPEARS TOWN?

[Arugula]

Yeah right. That is a damned if you do, damned if you don't statement.

If you read her as scum, she appears town and you are wrong.

If you read her as town, you are scum because she is a safe townread.

[Arugula]

Yeah right. That is a damned if you do, damned if you don't statement.

If you read her as scum, she appears town and you are wrong.

If you read her as town, you are scum because she is a safe townread.

No, it's a "when you pull a read out of thin air and it shows you're scummy" statement.

I didn't pull it out of thin air. AMRUN IS ACTING TOWN AND THEREFORE I THINK SHE IS TOWN.

What don't you understand about that?

[Arugula]

She is rightfully asking me good questions and although I hate to admit it, she makes very good points. Her posts are well thought out and she has given off many town vibes.

It is hard arguing with someone who you think is town, which is why I have no trouble arguing with you.

[Arugula]

DCL, you are tunneling me like crazy. After that whole escapade, all you have to say is QFT for one of IceGuy's horrible points on me?

Let me ask you this question: Do you think Amrun is town or scum?

And Robocopter, chill out. I'll post more when I'm not on my phone, but you haven't been a shining star scum hunter either. You mostly yell at others to do things you aren't doing yourself.

[Arugula]

AV's refusal to answer Whispersilk's questions is scummy.

I don't like how Robocopter is reacting.

I could see a Robocopter/AurorusVox/IceGuy scumteam, but it is too obvious for me to be comfortable with.

I am confident in these players as town: Amrun, Whispersilk, Hoopla
These players are probably town: MagnaofIllusion
These players are null: Lady Lambdadelta, Vijay, DCLXVI, 2minds1soul, Voidedmafia
These players are probably scum: AurorusVox, Robocopter87
I am confident in these players as scum: IceGuy

Also, if I don't want any letters on the board, can I take an unflipped one? Which plan are we going with?

[Arugula]

Kbye

[Arugula]

Way to drop a case and switch to the other bandwagon, IceGuy! Why is AV town, besides listing you as town?

Also, AV is either scum trying to get towncred for not supporting the lynch, he is town who genuinely thinks IceGuy is town.

AV, why is IceGuy town? And why did you ignore Whispersilk's questions?

Collect: C6

[Arugula]

First, it's whisper, not Whiskers.

Second, you said that you don't mind answering questions of scum (calling me scum), and then said you refuse to answer whisper's question (and you called her scum). Did you suddenly forget that you thought whisper was scum or is it because you KNOW whisper is town?

FOS: AurorusVox

That whole post is a contradiction

I'd answer her stupid questions if she was town for the sake of clarity.
I don't mind answering questions of scum

And do you honestly think that three scum members would all join the same wagon?

[Arugula]

That is just plain dumb.

You won't answer non-stupid questions for town? (well, you just did by answering me, but that's beside the point)

And if you think that A WHOLE SCUMTEAM would jump on the SAME WAGON on DAY 1, you should reread some completed games and tell me how many times that has happened.

[Arugula]

That is one instance. In countless other ones, it didn't happen. I am not saying it is impossible, but it is highly unlikely and you know that.

[Arugula]

DCL, what the hell is your problem with me? Did I take a shit on your pillow or something?

I did have a bandwagon going, and EXCUSE ME if I didn't realize that all but one person hopped off. Nonetheless, IceGuy abandoned his case on whispersilk and moved onto someone who others had previously voted: me.

You have been tunneling me this whole game. Literally. After pages of posts, that is all you have to comment on? That is scummy as hell.

You didn't even address Hoopla's vote on you.

[Arugula]

You have been tunneling me, and I expect you to address a vote on you, no matter the length of your post.

I'm not "acting pissy" because I'm at L-5. I'm mad because you have been on me since the beginning, and only talk about one or two posts that I make in a discussion, completely ignoring everyone else's. You don't comment on anyone else and it frustrates me because there are plenty of scummy people, yet you keep bringing the discussion back to me because of some personal vendetta.

I honestly do not know your thoughts on any other player. Not one. I just know you think I am scum for poor reasons.

[Arugula]

And LLD, are you going to say something besides hmmm? What are your thoughts on whisper/IceGuy/AV?

[Arugula]

Still waiting for that long post with reads, DCL.

[Arugula]

I don't like how Robocopter is reacting.

/facepalm

Alright. There is this thing. It's called reasoning. We use it when we wish to describe and support our statements.

Go back, quote me, and use explanation to describe why I am scum.

Here is what I didn't like:

wasting his time making a case

on me

Yep, that makes sense. Because scumhunting is a waste if the case is made on you and not someone else. Because pointing out three people, explaining why they are scummy, and connecting them to each other is a total waste of time if you are involved.

You took things out of context by posting a sentence fragment.

You make a nice case. Well, case that recaps on all the other cases but you linked them together. However, I would like to ask, if you think that out of those three that if it wasn't for those three, you would think Whisper is town. Why did you want Whisper to be the first one to go?

That's a really good point. I'd like to know why too.

Wow. Suck up much?

You are getting worse and worse by the minute.

I'm down for a whipser lynch, Vijay isn't really going anywhere. I'm more willing to put pressure on.

UNVOTE: Vijay
VOTE: Whisper

So everyone who agrees with you is scum? Just because whisper wanted to know something that you did, does not mean she is sucking up to you.

ICEGUY I THINK YOU'RE TOWN
DONT LET THE BASTARDS GRIND YOU DOWN

Town: AV

Cmon man. You said this like three posts after AV said his. You didn't even make the obvious buddying less obvious.

Okay cool. Call out buddying and don't follow up on it.

DCL, what the hell is your problem with me? Did I take a shit on your pillow or something?

I did have a bandwagon going, and EXCUSE ME if I didn't realize that all but one person hopped off. Nonetheless, IceGuy abandoned his case on whispersilk and moved onto someone who others had previously voted: me.

You have been tunneling me this whole game. Literally. After pages of posts, that is all you have to comment on? That is scummy as hell.

You didn't even address Hoopla's vote on you.

Whoa man.

This is pretty vicious towards DCL. Yeah DCL has been doing crap for content (And you were not the first to point this out. i pointed it out and you resaid it multiple posts later.)

It was a ridiculous question to ask him nonetheless. He thinks you are scum. This game is called Mafia. You find Mafia. You kill the Mafia.

However he does need to post more content. But again, this has already been stated.

Sorry about this post, I made a better one like this. Except a lot of crap happened and I lost it. first post I've ever lost, I think. So this is just a quick recreation of it.

Yes, but he has ONLY TALKED ABOUT ME this whole game. That goes beyond thinking someone is scum. That is tunneling. You are agreeing with me, but attacking me at the same time. Why are you defending DCL's tunneling?

@ MOI's request
6. Arugula - Null-Scum
9. whispersilk - Scum

Yes.

In fact, I don't know why I'm voting Whisper when Arugula is clearly the scummier of the two.

UNVOTE: Whisper
VOTE: Arugula

What changed in between these posts? You list whisper as scummier, but then say I am scummier. And you answered "yes" to AV's question when he asked if you would vote me to stop and IceGuy lynch. But IceGuy is only a null read for you, so why are you trying to save him?

@MoI I see a lot of AV/Robocopter buddying.

2. Arugula is looking very bad. In my opinion even worse than Whisper. I think Whisper has done a better job defending herself than Arugula. I would rather see Arugula dead than Whisper dead at this point. Thus, I switched my vote.

Again, what changed for me being null-scum to scummier than whisper? Why is my wagon better?

I still don't like IceGuy, mostly because of his Amrun is an easy town read bit. But, it looks like his lynch isn't happening.

UNVOTE: IceGuy
VOTE: Robocopter87

I don't like how AV and Robocopter jumped on my wagon together and I don't like how they have narrowed it down to either me or IceGuy.

[Arugula]

Shut up you haven't done shit this game.

[Arugula]

Well that was a lot of hype for nothing.

[Arugula]

I would like to see this misrep list.

You promised a reads list and that post was underwhelming and your scum read on Hoopla reeks of OMGUS.

[Arugula]

So when I flip town, you can admit you have done nothing and hammer yourself.

I've played one game with AV before and although it isn't completed, we are both dead and town. He is acting completely different. He posted reads, (good ones), answered all questions, and did not give snarky, unhelpful comments like the one above.

I want to lynch AV too, but Robocopter first because Robocopter can actually be helpful to scum.

[Arugula]

Why? I'm not mentioning specifics or giving anything away, just explaining your behavior, which anyone can read if they want.

Yes I am flipping town, and when I do, I hope you are lynched.

But hopefully we won't have to come to that and you die before me.

[Arugula]

So everyone who agrees with you is scum? Just because whisper wanted to know something that you did, does not mean she is sucking up to you.

I never said everybody who agrees with me is scum. That is blatantly misrepping me.

If whisper had simply wanted to know what I wanted to know. She would have waited for the response instead of buddying up to me saying it was a good point.

You insinuated that, and it is not a misrep if I was asking you to clarify. If that's what you meant by it, fine.

Okay cool. Call out buddying and don't follow up on it.

I called it out, what more did you want? Whisper was blatant and unnecessarily buddying. Iceguy was simply posting reads and put Vox in the town category.

Question the buddiers or do something else besides "Hey they're buddying".

Yes, but he has ONLY TALKED ABOUT ME this whole game. That goes beyond thinking someone is scum. That is tunneling. You are agreeing with me, but attacking me at the same time. Why are you defending DCL's tunneling?

You asked him if you took a **** on his pillow. That question was so ridiculous. Why would you even ask? I never defended his tunneling. I've said multiple times that I have called him out multiple times to give more content. Read my ISO, I say it over and over. It wasn't about DCL, it was about our reaction to DCL.

That question was a JOKE. If you thought I would seriously ask that, you need a sense of humor. And I know you have been talking about his content, but you make it seem like I am just parroting you, when I am calling him out on tunneling, not lack of content.

Again, what changed for me being null-scum to scummier than whisper? Why is my wagon better?

Your reactions. And now your OMGUS. You have gone into rage mode because people think you are scum.

This isn't OMGUS. I've given a fair case on you, and I didn't vote AV or Amrun when they voted for me.

So when I flip town, you can admit you have done nothing and hammer yourself.

I've played one game with AV before and although it isn't completed, we are both dead and town. He is acting completely different. He posted reads, (good ones), answered all questions, and did not give snarky, unhelpful comments like the one above.

I want to lynch AV too, but Robocopter first because Robocopter can actually be helpful to scum.

That fact that you are telling people you'll flip town is ridiculous. When you start using that as a defense you know that you need to die.

Am I supposed to say that I will flip scum?

Yes I am flipping town, and when I do, I hope you are lynched.

We aren't going to lynch him if you flip town. You acted scummy and he voted you. Nothing wrong with him. If you flip town, you ought go back and play a few newbies. AtE much?

NOTHING WRONG WITH AV? So you think his refusal to ask questions, his lack of scumhunting, and his weak excuses are acceptable?

And there is no reason to insult me. That was not an AtE either. I said that if I die, I want AV lynched. That's it.

[Arugula]

Anyway, I've scanned through and I'm comfortable with this:

VOTE: Arugula

353 and 357 don't sound like the Arugula I know, who has been town.

That's what you call frustration.

And is that your only reason for voting me?

[Arugula]

It isn't strong enough, and you haven't commented on most of the things that have gone on.

[Arugula]

I am on my phone now and will respond to that post later.

[Arugula]

Question the buddiers or do something else besides "Hey they're buddying".

Question them how? I pointed it out. I didn't find it scummy. I didn't find it town. I pointed it out. How does this make me scum?

Ask them why they buddied, pressure them on it, or ask for others' opinions. Don't just make an observation and not follow up on it. Scum do that.

That question was a JOKE. If you thought I would seriously ask that, you need a sense of humor. And I know you have been talking about his content, but you make it seem like I am just parroting you, when I am calling him out on tunneling, not lack of content.

There are no jokes in Mafia. I'm not accepting a defense of "It was a joke". No. If you didn't state it was a joke at the time of the joke, then it wasn't a joke.

Second point I'm willing to agree to. You are in fact calling him out for tunneling. not lack of content. I'll let that go. However, this has nothing to do with me being scum.

There are no jokes in mafia? Ok. So you actually thought I took a shit on his pillow? What the hell? And yes, it does have something to do with you being scum. You are painting me as parroting when I am not.

Am I supposed to say that I will flip scum?

I never said that. But instead of giving proper reasoning you went to, "Oh IM TOWN so you should feel bad when I flip." We don't know you are town. We didn't ask you if you were town. Its a load of WIFOM that doesn't needed to be added.

That's because AV said I will flip scum. I didn't just say that I am flipping town as a response to the case on me.

NOTHING WRONG WITH AV? So you think his refusal to ask questions, his lack of scumhunting, and his weak excuses are acceptable?

And there is no reason to insult me. That was not an AtE either. I said that if I die, I want AV lynched. That's it.

Yes, he is acceptable. Not obvtown. But acceptable.

There are plenty other people who should die before AV. I would not think AV is scum just because he was on your wagon.

I disagree on the first part.

And he is not scum for being on my wagon either. He is scum for outright ignoring questions and refusing to contribute.

It isn't strong enough, and you haven't commented on most of the things that have gone on.

Yeah, you think so? sucks to be you then. What have I missed? I cbf with all the mafia setup theory spec stuff.

Opportunistic vote.

FoS: Vijay

It's pretty funny how everyone that is actually around, has jumped off me and IG and straight onto Arugula without really giving good reason. vijay is probably the worst.

QFT

Well the fake hammer has at least served to strengthen the tie between whisper and arguala.

Good so when I flip town, the shitty case on whisper should come to an end.

@Magna
Robocopter is a better player and could talk his way out of being scum. AV cannot do that as well. That's why Robocopter should go first.

As a side note, AV, purposely misspelling my name isn't funny. I brought this up last time, and you continue to do it. You are just being an asshole.

Wow Amrun. Way to hammer town. Bye guys. Whisper is town too.

@Whisper
The scum team is among these people, in order:
Robocopter
AV
DCL
Iceguy

Good luck guys!
Vijay