Mini 1805 [C'est fini!]

[Infinity 324]

Hi guys, been following the thread, here are my thoughts so far

Eggman - Looks like noobtown to me, I don't like how fast the wagon on him formed, and crumbing VT seems more like silly town than weird scum
Creature - Probably my strongest townread, he seems to be very open with his thoughts and actively scumhunting. His thoughts on leaving the egg wagon mirrored my thoughts at the time.
Dragon of the West - Also seems open, brings up good points and genuine-looking thoughts
atm - Probably confused town but I'm not sure
Dwlee - Really liked his activity early on so he's probably town, just wish he would stop being lazy
Derek - null. I like his pushes, but some of his posts don't seem to be doing very much and my gut says he might be scum
MarioManiac - null leaning scum for gut
F-oh-ex - Probably town because the depth of his analysis is more likely to come from town and his emotions seem genuine
crazycrab - I was scumreading him up until recently, but the thing about him trying to change his playstyle doesn't seem faked, and his comment along the lines of "I don't know what I can do to make you townread me" is very classic town frustration for being wagoned.
Robbnva - null leaning scum, it's kinda worrying that he hasn't done anything particularly towny yet since he's been very active. Also, his logic-based scumhunting style seems almost too easy--he's very experienced so he should know that town often uses bad logic, perhaps more than scum does.
Smithereens - null leaning town, for his aggressiveness. Something feels off about him to me, not sure what it is though

VOTE: MarioManiac let's do it.

PEdit: What's up creature

[Infinity 324]

Not really, both of those things are easily faked by scum.

[Infinity 324]

I disagree.

[Infinity 324]

Eggman - I don't like how fast the wagon on him formed

Ok I remembered wrong the wagon actually formed quite slowly

That said I don't like smithereens' or atm's jumps on.

[Infinity 324]

Do you think it's scum or just bad town

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that's what I was thinking too

[Infinity 324]

I played a game with a player who played the newb card and was town read for most of the game. Can't remember if scum won or not but the player admitted afterwards she was manipulating town.

This is true, but my gut says that's not what atm is doing here. I'll check that other game and see though

I lov manipulating to cause they easily write things off as town that are so easily faked.

But this coming from the player who said calling out a 180 made him town...

[Infinity 324]

It doesn't have to do with being manipulative, I just find that you saying that while calling yourself town for calling out something simple like creature's 180 is contradictory.

What did you think about my comment about you doing logic-based scumhunting, do you think it's true? Cause if you're town I think that's leading you on the wrong track. If you're scum it looks like a convenient way to call scum town.

And you know me? I know you're an alt but -_-

[Infinity 324]

If you're scum it looks like a convenient way to call scum town.

And vice versa

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but calling someone scum for lying about a simple thing or a logical contraction or something is :/

For example, you calling out creature for the "lie" doesn't make sense to me because given creature's style from what I've seen, it makes sense that he would misremember something, while I think very few scum would blatantly lie about something so easily checked. It just seems too easy.

I read atm's ISO in the game creature brought up, and I agree with creature that he's playing quite differently from there. He brings up many more of his own opinions in this game, despite having less posts overall. Still I wish he would post more so I can get a better read on him :/

[Infinity 324]

I don't like the part where you say "I use logic all the time", it kinda looks like an attempt to discredit me by making me look silly. You could've just said "I don't know what you mean" or something

[Infinity 324]

It's simple cause it's so easy to check, and I think scum would be more careful about that kind of stuff than town. Personally I often use impressions I get for evidence, sometimes the impression you get isn't really accurate

Though tbf it does look like you believe that's scummy so

PEdit: Obviously you use logic, most people use logic, I was talking about a particular style of scumhunting.

[Infinity 324]

First of all I very much disagree that his reasons for scumreading egg were better than his reasons for townreading egg

If you're so confident creature is scum, why aren't you voting him?

[Infinity 324]

Do you have a reason you think it's more likely to come from scum or is it just experience

[Infinity 324]

Well I definitely wouldn't say he panicked, I do wanna know why he isn't pushing creature more though because I didn't know he was that confident in his read until now

@Smithereens, what's your read on creature?

@Robb, why didn't you call into question my alignment during our discussion?

[Infinity 324]

I think smithereens is town but he's weirdly using logic I don't agree with at all to come to conclusions that may make sense

[Infinity 324]

Do you think scum bus their buddy and then back off when they get ~4 votes?

What you're saying kinda makes sense, but not if creature is scum. I don't even think robb is giving himself an out to not vote creature closer to deadline.

[Infinity 324]

@Robb don't you think it would be helpful to pressure creature more to try and make him crack?

[Infinity 324]

@Robb, why didn't you call into question my alignment during our discussion?

i'm not sure I understand.

Since my slot was empty up until recently, I'm wondering why you didn't seem to make an effort to determine my alignment or state a read on me.

[Infinity 324]

^^ I think that's town

[Infinity 324]

It's either town or scum that is quite good at faking emotion

[Infinity 324]

@Robb don't you think it would be helpful to pressure creature more to try and make him crack?

I have already seen enough of creature though. His 180 for weird reasons, his "lies" (put that in quotes since some people don't consider it a lie ), and his weird attempts at deflection makes me think there is no way he is town. I honestly don't think I can pressure him anymore than he has already been pressured.

Do you think pressuring him might convince other people more though?

PEdit: Makes sense

I think both of you are town and we approach this game in very different ways so that's where the conflict is coming from

[Infinity 324]

Smith, it's the tone that makes me believe he really feels the emotion he's conveying.

Also, I thought you scumread robb so I'm confused

[Infinity 324]

Your tone is annoyed because you are annoyed. I know I and other people have trouble faking emotion as scum, so

What if I said crab and creature were both town and that we should push on derek and mario who haven't had pressure yet.

[Infinity 324]

@Smith You're saying you're faking being annoyed on purpose to get reactions?

I think how easy it is to fake emotion really depends on the player

Also I've read at least 1 other town and 1 other scum game of creature, and this is not his scum game. He was more careful and a lot less proactive in his scum game, but in the town game he was basically like this but posted less.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but if it's how you talk that's a lot different from trying to fake it.

Smith, I don't agree that it's always necessarily better to put your vote on who's more likely to be scum. Even if lurkers won't do what you want them to do under pressure, they will probably react in a certain way, and that lets you get more information on them.

[Infinity 324]

^^

[Infinity 324]

The use of votes for pressure does not give the results that people believe it does. You think voting someone makes them act pro-town? No. Furthermore, this is counter-productive to our aims. We want the scum to act more scummy and the townies to act more townies. Voting a suspected scum to make them act more townie is going to screw the town over and you don't need me to tell you that.

Disagree with this because pro-town =/= towny and scum don't always act more towny under pressure.

The purpose of voting, other than trying to get a lynch, is very generally to try to get someone to act differently. When you see how someone reacts in different situations, you can see whether their actions overall fit a town or scum narrative better and thus determine their alignment better.

[Infinity 324]

@Infinity, please re-read your post. You basically restate my position by saying they act different in way that can fit a town or scum narrative.

What I'm trying to say is that you can better determine the alignment of a player if they act differently because it allows you to form a more complete picture of who they are as a player in the game.

[Infinity 324]

Bleh I don't like that response, why are you concerned with how that's alignment indicative as opposed to addressing the contradiction? Kinda seems like you already knew you did it.

[Infinity 324]

I know contractions are more likely to come from town (yes that is true in general DotW), I just don't like your response to it

I'm townreading you anyway so ehh

[Infinity 324]

^^

[Infinity 324]

I thought his interaction with me yesterday looked town

[Infinity 324]

Creature is actively scum hunting and thereby playing to the town wincon.

[Infinity 324]

Creature was actively scum hunting for most of the game. Creature looks town for that, scum hunting is kinda hard to fake as noob scum. In addition, he's looks very open with his thoughts which is hard to fake even for experienced scum.

[Infinity 324]

Creature, you only joined the site a few months ago, you are kind of a noob

Smith, I agreed completely with creature's reasons for changing his read on eggman. (Except for the part where he said eggman was consistently mislynch bait)

Eggman crumbing (though not really) VT seems town to me because scum don't feel like they need to do that kind of stuff, they'd rather try to prove themselves in more generally accepted ways. However, I think town (esp noob town) often try to do anything they can to prove themselves. I feel the same way about crabs frustration, he said something along the lines of "what can I do to show you guys I'm town"

PEdit: nope, smith is town too

[Infinity 324]

PEdit: nope, smith is town too

If you had to vote for someone right now, a lynch vote not a pressure vote, who would it be on? You've called all the main suspects your townreads

Yeah, this always happens that I have too many townreads :/ I do have a gut scumread on mario, but other than that, it would be derek. He seems to be commenting from the sidelines a lot, and I felt like he was buddying dwlee early on.

Do you think it's town saying everything can easily be faked and suggesting someone of not playing to their win condition?

Here's how I weigh scum:
Are they pushing an agenda that progresses town's wincon? Y/N.
If Y, don't lynch, If N, do lynch.

You and every other player here don't give enough attention to reading posts in the context of the wider game. You can't possibly read motives without considering which team they benefit. I appear to be the only one with these thoughts which is slightly disappointing to understate it.

I think it's easier to fake playing to a town wincon generally than to fake scumhunting or emotion.

Do you think it's town saying everything can easily be faked and suggesting someone of not playing to their win condition?

Here's how I weigh scum:
Are they pushing an agenda that progresses town's wincon? Y/N.
If Y, don't lynch, If N, do lynch.

You and every other player here don't give enough attention to reading posts in the context of the wider game. You can't possibly read motives without considering which team they benefit. I appear to be the only one with these thoughts which is slightly disappointing to understate it.

Here's the problem, you can't always tell exactly which wincon a person is supporting. Especially when you don't low who all of the scum are. If someone has a strong read on 2 people and is almost certain they're scum and then says those are two that need to be lynched is that town win con? For a town player it is. But if both of those lynches flip town, that player looks scummy and looks like he's playing towards scum wincon because he called for mislynches. But then he's really town and he was just trying to lynch who he thought was scum which is town win con. Oh wow by looking at wincon alone they've now mislynches three people. Super awesome

QFT

[Infinity 324]

His reasons were very valid, I agreed with them.

[Infinity 324]

Hello, are you scum?

[Infinity 324]

Damn I don't like to give town reads based on catchup posts but that was a really good one...

I have a lot of town reads too, Robb, and what creature did made a lot of sense to me.

I think players have wildly different playstyle and that's kinda screwing with us. "I don't see how you can possibly be scum reading me as town" is not an argument, I think all of us should make an effort to understand people's thought processes more.

[Infinity 324]

I agree that petroleum's catchup was nitpicky in the respect.

Don't see why smithereens is scum, his aggressiveness reads town to me (you mentioned a discredit a couple times, but that doesn't really convince me)

Also do you think crabman would make up that thing about changing to a new playstyle? I could see him as noob scum, but can't get over that and his open frustration about trying to look town.

Why is derek so high up?

[Infinity 324]

It is NAI because petroleum could have made that post before replacing in

That's true, I didn't think of that.

I want more from Dwlee on his crab case because I'm really not seeing it.
I'm definitely going to be more active this weekend, but I should be here more tonight too.

I think it's safe to say we all want more from you. Pretty ballsy to ask others for more info when you haven't done much.

Not really. I haven't posted much mostly because I don't have many reads from this scenario. He established a read and is bandwagoning it but isn't really offering an explanation.

Come on dude, at least read the thread and try to scumhunt.

This only my second game ever

Really? You seem to know a lot of mafia theory for only your second game!

[Infinity 324]

Hi guys, been following the thread, here are my thoughts so far

Eggman - Looks like noobtown to me, I don't like how fast the wagon on him formed, and crumbing VT seems more like silly town than weird scum
Creature - Probably my strongest townread, he seems to be very open with his thoughts and actively scumhunting. His thoughts on leaving the egg wagon mirrored my thoughts at the time.
Dragon of the West - Also seems open, brings up good points and genuine-looking thoughts
atm - Probably confused town but I'm not sure
Dwlee - Really liked his activity early on so he's probably town, just wish he would stop being lazy
Derek - null. I like his pushes, but some of his posts don't seem to be doing very much and my gut says he might be scum
MarioManiac - null leaning scum for gut
F-oh-ex - Probably town because the depth of his analysis is more likely to come from town and his emotions seem genuine
crazycrab - I was scumreading him up until recently, but the thing about him trying to change his playstyle doesn't seem faked, and his comment along the lines of "I don't know what I can do to make you townread me" is very classic town frustration for being wagoned.
Robbnva - null leaning scum, it's kinda worrying that he hasn't done anything particularly towny yet since he's been very active. Also, his logic-based scumhunting style seems almost too easy--he's very experienced so he should know that town often uses bad logic, perhaps more than scum does.
Smithereens - null leaning town, for his aggressiveness. Something feels off about him to me, not sure what it is though

VOTE: MarioManiac let's do it.

PEdit: What's up creature

So you have two scumreads- me and Robbvna. You say that i'm null, leaning scum because of gut, and then give legitimate reasons for scumreading Robb. Why?
Or are you hopping on a bandwagon you saw pop up?

Just a wagon for pressure, I don't think voting robb accomplishes much at this point. Since then, robb has looked townie in my interactions with him.

I notice you say later you want to crack Creature- so why don't you vote him yourself?

Creature is my strongest town read, I was wondering why robb didn't want to pressure him more.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I got that

I see there's four votes on me now. I really can't argue against this wagon because it is concerning the strategy I was testing this game. I can't edit all my posts so hey fit another strategy and just saying "I'm town" won't convince anyone. I could try to justify my reasoning but I already tried that and that didn't work so what else can I do?

This post of crab's looks very town to me.

[Infinity 324]

Hey robb, how many people in this game were also in that game or crab's you linked earlier?

[Infinity 324]

That post is town because the tone is consistent with the emotion he's conveying and I think noob scum tend have a hard time faking emotion. Plus it's exactly the emotion I would expect from him there.

As far as I know, crab not developing real reads is part of his "new play style". It could seem like an excuse, but that also doesn't feel fake to me.

PEdit: Ok. So why would scum!crab change his play style that drastically when he knew multiple people in this game might notice and call him out for it? What I would do, and what I think is natural, is to try to emulate your town game as scum.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but he's been playing completely and obviously differently.

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: crabman

So far I feel that this is creature's town game. His posts feel to me to be made in a manner scum wouldn't, which from my limited experience is more hesitant to start a wagon and draw attention to themselves.

So you think the scumteam in a 13-player game would be three people?

That sounds like he was trying to force a townslip out of himself.

I don't like eggman's posts so far in general and i'd like to see more defense/scum hunting from him. Until then, VOTE: Eggman

I agree that his posts are funny but not being that actively scum hunting doesn't mean he's scum. I for instance aren't that active but I'm still town.

Yeah, I'm reluctant to scum read Smithereen on two posts that he made. Two posts is not enough to judge anyone on.

He's posted more since then, what are your thoughts on the posts?

I think that the "what's your favorite desert question" was definitely on purpose. I don't know what way that points eggman, though.

Ok so, do you have any thoughts on Eggman beyond this? Or any player not named Creature? Your recent posts still have little to no real content.

----

As for the VT crumb I don't really see crumbing VT as alignment indicative. It seems kinda pointless as both town and scum, and I could see him doing it as either alignment. I still think crazy is a better wagon, which is why people should join me on it.

1- I'm have a minor townlean on smithereen now and I feel his attitude is what I expect from town.
2- I feel that eggman is acting odd and I feel that cruming VT is what scum would tell him to do day 1. It is possible that he just found out about crumbing and thought it would be a way to dissuade any suspicion against him. I'll be doing a chart later today on town and scum reads.

But if you are more suspicious of creature your vote should be on creature. You even thought he was lying about eggs games and I proved he was and you don't vote him?

That just strikes me as weird. Id like to see creature get a few more votes on him.

Sometimes more information can be gained by lynching someone who could flp either way, like in my last and first game the tojam lynch would provide valuable information no matter how he flipped, and it led to my investigation of LicketyQuickety, which ultimatly led to scums downfall.

Also, I feel Robbnva is either very set in his ways and doesn't like people not agreeing with him, or he is trying to push ways of thinking which points him as town.

So when I mean acting like atm, I mean more apprehensive to criticism. Last game when there was pressure put on him he was pretty cool and collected. This game he seems more on end. Some examples:

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

You're putting a person that has never posted onto the scum team? For real?

Are you even reading?

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

Pretty sure all of my reasonings have been posted. Finish catching up and if you still can't tell I'll point them out. I'm heading out to pick up my son.

This looks like an SvS interaction.

Here I feel he is trying to create confusion and noise.

crazy

Do you actually have any opinion on me vs Robbnva?

Again, noise.

So basically I get a tense vibe from him through his posts. He is definitely not like atm in that he asks questions like "how to vote", but I feel he's giving off the same feel atm gave off the first game I played with them.

This is not someone trying to look confused.

[Infinity 324]

Hi guys, been following the thread, here are my thoughts so far

Eggman - Looks like noobtown to me, I don't like how fast the wagon on him formed, and crumbing VT seems more like silly town than weird scum
Creature - Probably my strongest townread, he seems to be very open with his thoughts and actively scumhunting. His thoughts on leaving the egg wagon mirrored my thoughts at the time.
Dragon of the West - Also seems open, brings up good points and genuine-looking thoughts
atm - Probably confused town but I'm not sure
Dwlee - Really liked his activity early on so he's probably town, just wish he would stop being lazy
Derek - null. I like his pushes, but some of his posts don't seem to be doing very much and my gut says he might be scum
MarioManiac - null leaning scum for gut
F-oh-ex - Probably town because the depth of his analysis is more likely to come from town and his emotions seem genuine
crazycrab - I was scumreading him up until recently, but the thing about him trying to change his playstyle doesn't seem faked, and his comment along the lines of "I don't know what I can do to make you townread me" is very classic town frustration for being wagoned.
Robbnva - null leaning scum, it's kinda worrying that he hasn't done anything particularly towny yet since he's been very active. Also, his logic-based scumhunting style seems almost too easy--he's very experienced so he should know that town often uses bad logic, perhaps more than scum does.
Smithereens - null leaning town, for his aggressiveness. Something feels off about him to me, not sure what it is though

VOTE: MarioManiac let's do it.

Infinity

: What page were you on when you held these opinions on Creature, Robb, and Smithereens?

Was caught up. Robb and smith have since moved up in my reads, and derek has moved down since I re-ISO'd him

There is nothing weird about the fact that it's not normal for a town to not get hyped about finding a scum and just leave it be.

This post just feels like "If you're not me and don't have my reaction, you're scum". Not everybody will be a gold miner, Smithereens! Some will be paleontologists.

This is a really good point.

Eggman still town.

[Infinity 324]

What do you think about Dragon of the West?

He's kinda been on the sidelines, but he's not afraid to say what he thinks. Null leaning town.

[Infinity 324]

it's more likely to have multiple alignments in neighborhoods to avoid the power of it being masons.

This is such bad logic…

The power of masons is that they are confirmed.

[Infinity 324]

If it were up to me, we would be lynching derek…

I'll vote robb or crab at deadline though cause those are my weaker town reads

Really wanna get more out of mario.

[Infinity 324]

I like my vote where it is, I gut scum read mario and that slot needs pressure.

What do you make of crabman changing his meta so dramatically from the other game that a lot of the same players were in? What's your read on dragon?

[Infinity 324]

I just have too many town reads -_-

From scummiest to towniest, it goes something like this:
Derek, Mario, petroleum, dragon, crab, atm, robb, dwlee, eggman, f-oh-ex, smith, creature

Would want mario lynched but I would rather something that gives more info.

[Infinity 324]

What do you make of crabman changing his meta so dramatically from the other game that a lot of the same players were in? What's your read on dragon?

I'm pretty sure I went over the first one before? I think the meta change is better explained as being newb scum who's either having a hard time faking scum reads, or isn't confident enough in his play to do so. While he'd obviously want to imitate his town game as scum, that's easier said then done especially when you're new. Also, I'm pretty sure someone brought it up before, but crab's reads were pretty accurate in his first game. I don't see much of a reason for someone to start using a new strategy randomly, especially when his old one seemed to have worked perfectly fine.

Don't agree with this, but not really worth arguing over, crab is one of my weaker townreads anyway.

I find it odd that you wouldn't get anything alignment indicative about the robb v. me v. smith v. dragon stuff, because there was a lot of aggression/emotion to analyze there.

I just have too many town reads -_-

From scummiest to towniest, it goes something like this:
Derek, Mario, petroleum, dragon, crab, atm, robb, dwlee, eggman, f-oh-ex, smith, creature

Is there a point here where your nullreads/townreads start? I know you find Mario and I scummy, but it's hard to tell where people out of the extremes land if there's no scale.

petroleum is a null to slight lean town, others go up from there. So yeah, too many townreads

[Infinity 324]

You had actually done things that I thought were scummy and pinged my gut...

Don't decide for me what's lousy and what's easy to fake.

[Infinity 324]

I disagree that there are so many scummy players...

Again, don't decide for me what's scummy. You certainly did things that pinged my gut.

Catchup posts are easy to fake, and petroleum could've had it written before hand, but I doubt it, and it was a really good catchup post. Are you seriously calling me out for my weak reasoning on a

null, slightly leaning town

read?

PEdit: I didn't point them out because they were a long time ago and I didn't want to have to go back into the thread.

[Infinity 324]

The only reason I mentioned you and crab in the first place was because you were what I perceived to be other viable lynches for today...

Again, don't think a mario lynch would give us much info, and others except dragon (which I forgot to metion) aren't realistic.

Get your vote off me and stop nitpicking and pretending like you caught me in something.

PEdit: Dude, I never said petroleum changed places, I just have a shitton of town reads.

PEdit 2: Your interactions with me looked towny and there isn't a ton of difference a lot of the reads in the middle.

PEdit 3: Creature is and always has always been my top townread, already explained that.

PEdit 4: I just didn't like your reasoning is all

[Infinity 324]

[Infinity 324]

3rd scummiest and lean town.

I have a shitton of town reads.

[Infinity 324]

Jesus christ you can't possibly be saying I'm scum for thinking creature is town. We've gone over this before, he misremembered something that it would've made no sense to lie about as scum, and he made a 180 that basically made sense given the situation, eggman's crumb made no sense given the situation. 180s aren't even very scummy to begin with.

Petroleum is only slight lean town for play, I didn't take into account PoE at all.

I get my reads have been weird, but instead of asking me to clarify you brought up all the parts that weren't completely clear at once and then called me scum for them. This play is not helping town at all.

[Infinity 324]

Don't see this push coming from scum, but holy crap you aren't helping.

[Infinity 324]

I stated my read on petroleum based on what I have seen from that slot so far. What I saw was a good catchup post, which had a small chance of being written beforehand, and that overall read null slightly leaning town to me. It's nothing more than that.

Yes, petroleum may have a higher chance than that to be scum, but since we don't have a flip yet and I have yet to interact with some slots, I don't see a real purpose in calling the read scummy just by PoE. I'm not trying to call the scumteam yet.

[Infinity 324]

@petroleum: Do you think some of the point again robb could be explained by a very different playstyle as opposed to him being scum? Cause I'm not really seeing the scum motivation for his actions

About the Creature "lie" - even if creature was somehow confirmed scum it still probably wasn't a lie. There is no scum motivation in lying about something where you can so easily be caught.

[Infinity 324]

I don't see robb fake catching me in what he thinks is a scumslip, that's just too much even for an experienced player.

Creature what are your thoughts on derek?

[Infinity 324]

Come on, do something dude

What do you think about derek and dragon

[Infinity 324]

2.)

Infinity 324, can you explain Robbnva's position in your list:

From scummiest to towniest, it goes something like this:
Derek, Mario, petroleum, dragon, crab, atm, robb, dwlee, eggman, f-oh-ex, smith, creature

Robbnva is one of the few players you have actually expressed and explained your suspicion on. Otherwise you have said you have a potential "gut" read on Derek12 and MarioManiac4. Has something about Robbnva changed your mind on him since your entrance into the game?

For robb, I thought his early interaction with me was towny as he seemed to really believe in the stances he was taking. The stubbornness seems more likely to come from town. Since then, I didn't really see his push on me out of the blue as scum-motivated.

You never finished giving reads on players in 846, can you do that?

Additionally, could you please attempt to explain your gut reads of Derek12 and MarioManiac4? You have given some explanation for your Derek12 suspicion (in Post #835), but not MarioManiac4.

"Staying on the sidelines and not engaging with people" pretty much sums up my suspicions on derek, he doesn't seem to be trying to figure stuff out or actively pushing his scumreads.

Mario, up until now, I think the gut probably had to do with asking not-so-useful questions since his derek vote. I really don't like his reads list though.

Well, here's my reads if people want them.
Smithereens- nothing really of note.
Derek- this was my first scumread and I still maintain it. He's spent almost all of his time voting crazycrab, although he seems to be active. He then seems to push Eggman primarily while the wagon was the most popular- after it fades away his attention on Eggman vanishes and he goes back to crab. He doesn't seem to be posting about anyone but crab. I can understand this if he has limited time online but it doesn't seem like he is, and even if he is I've found as scum, when I do have limited time, I focus on mostly my push and trying to validate it without pushing any other cases, rather than trying to generalize and find good cases (which is what I would do as town)- I'm not the same person as Derek but I think it's an instinct many would have. This is a somewhat bad scumread but it's lower than null nevertheless.

Eggman- "do you think there are 3 scum in a 13p game" is bad. I dislike 199, specifically the part where he says "I wanted to make a post to show that I was reading." Town don't really feel like justifying anything, but scum are generally always on the lookout for their own survival- or newer ones are anyhow. In 267 he says he's not aware of how to scumhunt. This is kinda a serious problem and you'd think he'd have figured it out in his three completed games. Sure enough, a quick look at "Celestial Mafia" where he is actively trying to scumhunt. He is aware of how to scumhunt. This strangely seems to drop, with Creature coming in with a townread on Eggman with a read that doesn't make sense.

crazycrab- I can see the scumminess of this slot when I open the ISO but it isn't hard to put into words- I might be seeing something different. crazycrab is commenting on different light reads. Post 173 is especially over the top, with "feel" appearing twice, along with its old comrade "from my experience". Yet he does make a good point about Eggman- although that isn't hard to fake if Eggman is town. He then follows this up by defending him slightly- this could indicate they are scumbuddies. His #254 is valid, but #173 is still bad. Later on, #515 is bad. If he thought the push was stupid, why didn't he say so instead of just saying that it was probably a SvS and the two most discussed players at the time were his top scumreads, along with those who hadn't posted?
"I think the problem we are having is that while many people read just off people's ISO, I believe that we should consider all the possibilities before we make a decision. I don't know if this is a good strategy because I have only tested it on one game, but it is what seems most fair to me."- this means that he has tested this strategy he is apparently using before. He makes the next few posts about his strategy; a musing by Fohex on crab's Dwlee read turns into a criticism on his strategy, and then says that he was "testing" a strategy in this game? 1)- you said you'd tested it before? and 2)- what's all this talk about strategy about? This game is a scumhunting game, and just because people thought your explanations weren't good enough doesn't mean you should hide your reasoning so that you can keep reads that are unsatisfying to other people?
Y'know, this makes me think- what is he planning to do this game if not explaining his reads? Explaining reads is the way to get your scumreads lynched, and if he's not planning to explain his reads, is he just planning to just state his reads and skate by the whole game? This post's scummy.
#600- why does he listen to a few criticisms of his strategy?

I'm going to post this to get it out there and aim to get the rest of my reads up asap.

Mario is saying a lot to not take very definitive stances and nitpicking on things that aren't really scummy. These don't look like genuine reads to me.

Vote is staying where it is.

Derek, what do you think about robb's case on me? I don't like how you popped in to explain him but didn't give your opinion on it.

Don't think derek and mario are both scum because they wouldn't bus so early, but bleeeeh.

I'm going to ISO dragon and crab later, I'm starting to have doubts about them.

PEdit: petroleum isn't getting lynched today, that's why I didn't mention them lol

[Infinity 324]

As for the Eggman crumb, I just felt uncomfortable about it. I wouldn't ever see a reason to legitimately crumb VT but that's me. I realize now that it may have just been something Eggman may do, while I do still take issue with it in general. Finally, I never tried to "push the lynch through". I solely was supporting my reason for my vote on him. Not trying to convince anyone to hammer in that moment

hold on a sec, we are getting heavy scumdar pings in the direction of post 1019, we believe a dragon of the west may be in that area, over

[Infinity 324]

First of all, neither I nor petroleum said you were trying to get someone to quick hammer, and you making the distinction between calling eggman scum and trying to push the lynch is a nitpick and unnecessary defense. I also didn't like your odd justification of why you changed your mind about the eggman crumb. Now you're just getting overdefensive and assuming things I didn't say.

Yeah I'm having serious doubts about dragon.

[Infinity 324]

Say what you'd like, but you're imagining that. You said you thought something I said in that post set off your scumdar and the only thing I can see setting that off is if you thought I lied about not trying to push a hammer through. If that's not the case, please clarify what made that retort to petroleum scummy, because it's not clear. And that's not "overdefensive", that's explaining myself after an accusation

Petroleum said you were hypocritical for calling eggman's VT crumb scum when you crumbed neighbor, you explained that crumbing neighbor wasn't really the purpose of the post in question. Ok, that was enough of a defense.

You said you weren't pushing for a quickhammer on eggman, but petroleum wasn't accusing you of that, "pushing for a lynch" does not mean "pushing for a lynch immediately", and that particular wording is not important anyway. The important part that petroleum was pointing out was that you called eggman scum for crumbing uselessly, while you crumbed neighbor, and you already had answered that part. Overdefensive.

You also talk about why you didn't like the eggman crumb in a way that "I realize now that it may have just been something Eggman may do" is not a reason for town to drop a scumread. Meanwhile you never even gave another reason to stop pushing eggman in the first place.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dragon

F-oh-ex is still probably town, he's just stupidly stuck on the creature/egg BS. Egg was town because saying that he crumbed there made no sense as scum, and there was no other real reason to ask the dessert question. Creature realizing that does not make him scum lol

[Infinity 324]

You're not even trying to analyze stuff anymore.

Did anything dragon did look overdefensive to you?

I'm definitely still willing to vote mario but I want to see where this goes. It's so much easier to look town when you don't have any pressure on you.

[Infinity 324]

I never said that I removed egg from my scumreads entirely. He just moved up slightly and is no longer the person I would like to lynch most today. Lol yeah he crumbed to claim, I crumbed to get Robb's attention. You can't compare the 2 instances.
Also, he said "push the lynch through". That's different to me than just "pushing for a lynch". But regardless of that, I didn't think making sure I explained myself well would be a problem, sorry if it was a bit wordy for your taste.
I think a lot of people agreed aside from you and creature that it was a weird crumb to begin with(fohex and robb especially), so I don't think it's unreasonable that I originally disagreed and read that as a scum!egg move. But I realized the point you and creature made and agree it's possible for town!egg to do that. This made him no longer my strongest scumread, who is now mario, but egg is my 3rd

The fact that we are even having this conversation is the scummiest part about it. Town shouldn't be worried about someone saying a post looks scummy. And the problem definitely was not that it's too wordy.

I have a day cop inno on dragon, can you stop now, infinity?

If you're town, you're not helping anyone.

--------------------------------------------

petroleum had some pretty good point about dragon, I think they're town for pushing on people that would be hard to lynch. Also their tone didn't change between the first post and the others.

ISO'd dragon and crab again. I can definitely see dragon as scum, he seems to be on the sidelines a lot. The overdefensiveness here is really bad too.

Crab seems to be trying to scumhunt, despite not giving very defined reads, and brings up very good points.

Man I just want a flip -_-

[Infinity 324]

The entire thing started because I called out one post of yours as scummy...

[Infinity 324]

I think petroleum meant to say "scumread eggman" instead of "push the lynch through", and I think the distinction between those things is a nitpick.

I'm the only vote on dragon, totally opportunistic...

PEdit: If you think petroleum's point was to say that dragon was trying to get someone to quickhammer eggman then I don't even

PEdit 2: mario, dragon, derek, atm, crab, petroleum, eggman, f-oh-ex, dwlee, smith, creature, robb

Derek isn't scum with mario and dragon tho so idk

[Infinity 324]

Creature higher than you

[Infinity 324]

His point was that what dragon was doing was contradictory, whether dragon is pushing an immediate lynch or not the point is the same. It's pretty clear.

I've already said this, you push on me out of the blue makes no sense coming from scum when no one else suspected me.

[Infinity 324]

I doubt it, his frustration for being called dumb seemed genuine, and in general his thoughts seem original and brings up quite a few good points (though annoyingly keeps tunneling on creature).

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but dwlee said something about him being either dumb or scum, so it probably wouldn't upset scum

[Infinity 324]

Idiot tell not scum tell?

Jsyk, this

is

my first game outside of Road to Rome. Go ahead, be a condescending prick and call me an idiot.

[Infinity 324]

Noobs usually have a hard time faking emotion like that.

The thing you quoted derek is just another example.

You guys could be right but I doubt it

[Infinity 324]

Ok I see what you mean.

The part that Derek quoted would have to be faked, though, because derek was calling him scum for something. It also makes me believe he actually thought the first few pages were shitposting.

PEdit: I don't think that emotion is as convincing, but that's besides the point. You asked for my opinion, and I gave it. By no means is f-oh-ex town for sure

[Infinity 324]

His point was that what dragon was doing was contradictory, whether dragon is pushing an immediate lynch or not the point is the same. It's pretty clear.

I've already said this, you push on me out of the blue makes no sense coming from scum when no one else suspected me.

The two contradictions were how I treated an L-1 in my last game versus how I treated it in this game and how I "crumbed" neighbor after not liking how Eggman crumbed. I showed why both of these were not the case, yet you still want to claim that me being "contradictory" is the problem. I don't get your line of thinking if I've proven all of your and pj's points to be incorrect. You're only response has been along the lines of "even having the conversation is scummy, so disregard that we were wrong about everything we said. he's still scum anyway". It's such a bad vote and push I'm tempted to vote you back just for your complete absence of actual reasoning

I never said that you being contradictory was the problem, I said that the contradiction about the crumb was the thing petroleum was pointing out. Stop pretending like I don't have any actual reasons. You overexplained yourself by stating thing that weren't necessary to respond to the point petroleum was trying to make, and you gave a explanation for the unvote of eggman that doesn't look genuine. You seriously didn't consider eggman's crumb as coming from town until creature and I pointed it out? Just sounds like a reason to jump off the eggman wagon as it died down. After that, you made a huge deal about me calling your post scummy and made assumptions about why I did that, which reads as scum desperate to defend themselves.

[Infinity 324]

Is this supposed to be a case dude? You're pointing out a bunch of things that you don't understand or disagree with in my posts.

IIRC Creature was the first person to vote for Eggman. You say that scum wouldn't bus like that and back off. Putting one vote on your partner is not bussing. And yes, scum would probably back off when the unexpected wagon forms. While I'm not sold on the fact that this is what happened, what you wrote to justify townread on Creature makes little to no sense.

First of all, that isn't really part of my argument for why creature is town, more like why creature-egg doesn't make a ton of sense. Second of all, I see what you're saying about creature perhaps not expecting a wagon to form, but I think it would be better to give weak reasoning to avoid that, and 196 has some pretty strong reasoning for so early in the game. I doubt scum would fail in trying to get people

not

to sheep them.

@Robb don't you think it would be helpful to pressure creature more to try and make him crack?

Wait, what? Make him crack? Wasn't he your strongest townread?

Well he wasn't robb's townread...

Post 918 is horrible. He suddenly pops in with Derek. He townread crab quite evidently and now wants to lynch him because he's a "weaker town read"? Lynching a weaker town read sounds like something you'd do by process of elimination if you townread literally everyone... what.

Ok, I do have a lot of townreads...

So you're saying that because Creature blatantly lied, it's a towntell? That's a shitty WIFOM at best and a pathetic buddying at worst.

....

even if creature was somehow confirmed scum it still probably wasn't a lie. There is no scum motivation in lying about something where you can so easily be caught.

If this is WIFOM, every towntell is WIFOM.

And why the shift on Robb, trying to butter up to him?

I've already said this, you push on me out of the blue makes no sense coming from scum when no one else suspected me.

[Infinity 324]

Give an example of something that's a towntell for you.

[Infinity 324]

(other than things that are hard to fake)

[Infinity 324]

And every action in Mafia can be reduced to some extend of WIFOM if it's not hard to fake

This is exactly my point.

The context here is the site meta of mafiascum, and the person in question is someone who is not ballsy to the point of being stupid. Directly lying doesn't make sense at all, because it will clearly draw suspicion to you. When the site meta changes, my opinion on that will change, but a lot of very good logic and tells can be waved away with WIFOM if you use that argument.

[Infinity 324]

Scum generally like to check their facts more than town, but it is a possibility. Given creature's play so far this game, I highly doubt it though.

PEdit: Wait I thought we were talking about how creature said egg was mislynch bait

Creature clearly believes, and I agree with him on this to an extent, that eggman meant to crumb and the dessert question wouldn't make sense otherwise.

[Infinity 324]

Seriously creature and f-oh-ex? This discussion is getting nowhere.

Also, I didn't realize we were so close to deadline -_-

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mario

[Infinity 324]

Nope, mario wagon is better

[Infinity 324]

Will be available about 20 minutes before deadline if you guys need someone to switch, but I much prefer Mario.

[Infinity 324]

I may or may not be around to switch my vote before deadline, I hope you guys will take care of it~ I really think the lynch should be Mario, he hasn't made much of an attempt to scumhunt and crab's thoughts all look genuine to me.

[Infinity 324]

I would like at least another day.

[Infinity 324]

Here and catching up

[Infinity 324]

Quick thoughts:

I forget whether anyone scumread robb, don't think anyone scumread dwlee. SK is more likely than a vig i think.

DGB and creature are looking quite town in the last few pages. F-oh-ex is still looking pretty town as well.

Dragon and mario are still scum.

May have to re-evaluate townreads on eggman and atm

[Infinity 324]

The problem of DGB is that it looks like she's contradicting herself in every post she makes.

I think this is a towntell, and it kinda makes sense while catching up. You contradicted yourself a few times in these past few pages as well.

[Infinity 324]

So does that make her scum?

[Infinity 324]

Look who's been paying attention...
Derek, are your ISOs coming along?

I'm null on DoTW now. I'm having a really hard time getting a good read on him currently. I kinda feel like he's going to flip opposite to infinity.

Eggman is town. Didn't really like his early posts, but they feel better for me recently. I don't really agree with some of it, but they seem genuine.

I got too lazy to ISO you and mostly just skimmed it. I'm townreading your posts today though, especially 1347. I'm wondering if you still think MM4/Creature aren't a duo, and if so why?

Then infinity is scum. It doesn't surprise me. Scum may have tried to create some wifom here but I couldn't help notice Dwlee and robb both agreed to lynch infinity and now they're dead. Robb was adamant and Dwlee said he'd trade a lynch for a lynch. I think his day 2 lynch request was MM4 in return

Why are you so willing to accept that one of us is scum? Because you know it's true?

VOTE: dragon

A bit busy right now, but I'm going to re-ISO eggman and atm when I get the chance. Also going to look at petroleum again.

[Infinity 324]

Notice I didn't put my vote on you? I should have said "it wouldn't surprise me". Lol I'm willing to accept that you're scum based on your out of the blue push on me day 1 right after saying you have so many townreads and the fact that you refuses to substantiate your argument with anything besides "having this conversation is scummy"

Nope, I gave my reasoning about 10 times yet you refuse to listen.

Guess DGB already gave up.

That was fast.

VOTE: DGB

???

I am now seeing DotW as town and Infinity 324 as scum.

Why the sudden change? Do you not agree that dragon has been overdefensive this game?

[Infinity 324]

Seriously dude?

Say what you'd like, but you're imagining that. You said you thought something I said in that post set off your scumdar and the only thing I can see setting that off is if you thought I lied about not trying to push a hammer through. If that's not the case, please clarify what made that retort to petroleum scummy, because it's not clear. And that's not "overdefensive", that's explaining myself after an accusation

Petroleum said you were hypocritical for calling eggman's VT crumb scum when you crumbed neighbor, you explained that crumbing neighbor wasn't really the purpose of the post in question. Ok, that was enough of a defense.

You said you weren't pushing for a quickhammer on eggman, but petroleum wasn't accusing you of that, "pushing for a lynch" does not mean "pushing for a lynch immediately", and that particular wording is not important anyway. The important part that petroleum was pointing out was that you called eggman scum for crumbing uselessly, while you crumbed neighbor, and you already had answered that part. Overdefensive.

You also talk about why you didn't like the eggman crumb in a way that "I realize now that it may have just been something Eggman may do" is not a reason for town to drop a scumread. Meanwhile you never even gave another reason to stop pushing eggman in the first place.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dragon

F-oh-ex is still probably town, he's just stupidly stuck on the creature/egg BS. Egg was town because saying that he crumbed there made no sense as scum, and there was no other real reason to ask the dessert question. Creature realizing that does not make him scum lol

First of all, neither I nor petroleum said you were trying to get someone to quick hammer, and you making the distinction between calling eggman scum and trying to push the lynch is a nitpick and unnecessary defense. I also didn't like your odd justification of why you changed your mind about the eggman crumb. Now you're just getting overdefensive and assuming things I didn't say.

Yeah I'm having serious doubts about dragon.

His point was that what dragon was doing was contradictory, whether dragon is pushing an immediate lynch or not the point is the same. It's pretty clear.

I've already said this, you push on me out of the blue makes no sense coming from scum when no one else suspected me.

The two contradictions were how I treated an L-1 in my last game versus how I treated it in this game and how I "crumbed" neighbor after not liking how Eggman crumbed. I showed why both of these were not the case, yet you still want to claim that me being "contradictory" is the problem. I don't get your line of thinking if I've proven all of your and pj's points to be incorrect. You're only response has been along the lines of "even having the conversation is scummy, so disregard that we were wrong about everything we said. he's still scum anyway". It's such a bad vote and push I'm tempted to vote you back just for your complete absence of actual reasoning

I never said that you being contradictory was the problem, I said that the contradiction about the crumb was the thing petroleum was pointing out. Stop pretending like I don't have any actual reasons. You overexplained yourself by stating thing that weren't necessary to respond to the point petroleum was trying to make, and you gave a explanation for the unvote of eggman that doesn't look genuine. You seriously didn't consider eggman's crumb as coming from town until creature and I pointed it out? Just sounds like a reason to jump off the eggman wagon as it died down. After that, you made a huge deal about me calling your post scummy and made assumptions about why I did that, which reads as scum desperate to defend themselves.

[Infinity 324]

You never explained why you felt the need to justify to petroleum the crumbing thing past the fact that you weren't really trying to crumb neighbor. You never responded about why you were so concerned about why I found that one post scummy in the first place.

I also don't believe your reasoning for why you stopped pushing eggman.

You're blowing what was originally a small thing out of proportion yet don't respond to the actual points, and instead use it as a way to call me scum. That's why you are scum.

[Infinity 324]

Sorry guys, I'm losing focus in my mafia games, from here on out I'll really try to post more cause this game needs it. I'm finishing my atm, eggman, and petroleum ISOs and talk about dragon more tonight.

[Infinity 324]

@Eggman explain your FoS on dragon please

[Infinity 324]

Also your read on mm4

[Infinity 324]

ISO'd eggman again, and I still think some of his thought processes are towny, but I could see the "VT crumb" coming from scum who wants to plan a claim in advance (overall a towntell still though). What worries me is that the pushes on his scumreads seem to lack conviction. The response about dragon could definitely be noob scum distancing.

Didn't get much out of atm's ISO. I could see as scum since he was one of my weaker townreads, but I'd rather wait to see what his replacement does.

petroleum I doubt is mafia because he is going against the flow so much, but I could see them as an SK who killed robb and is playing like town.

Can we seriously just lynch dragon or mario today -_-

[Infinity 324]

Why I justified: it was brought up as me being contradictory when, in fact, I wasn't actually crumbing in the traditional sense. I've already stated that multiple times.

Yes, but you explained it more than you needed to which was what pinged me in the first place.

I asked what about that post you found scummy, not that I was concerned you found it scummy.

You certainly showed you were concerned about it...

As town, it is my goal to be townread by other town members so that they trust my reads as genuine and don't mislynch me. I don't think wanting to understand what you found scummy in order to refute that point and show you that I am town is in itself scum behavior.

I thought you weren't concerned about the fact I found it scummy...

It wasn't out of proportion. You exclaimed I was scum for those reasons and I went on to disprove you by responding to the actual points. You then ignored the points I made in retort and continued to call me scum by saying the conversation itself was scummy. You're ignorance of my previous arguments and absolute misrepresentation of what I've said is why I think you are scum

It was out of proportion, because you insisted on getting into a long argument about one post I found scummy, and continuing it even when it was clear it was getting nowhere. Only scum need to make sure they dissolve any possible suspicion on them, that's why I say continuing the conversation was scummy. I ignored your arguments because the discussion was getting nowhere and I had seen enough. Plus where did I misrepresent what you said?

[Infinity 324]

I've seen enough from mario's slot tbh, atm just did very little in general. Thought it might be good to at least have his replacement say

something

.

[Infinity 324]

Guess DGB already gave up.

That was fast.

VOTE: DGB

???

I am now seeing DotW as town and Infinity 324 as scum.

Why the sudden change? Do you not agree that dragon has been overdefensive this game?

Can you respond to this please

[Infinity 324]

3.)

Infinity 324, could you please quote and explain why you think Dragon of the West has been "

over

defensive"? And why does that make him scum?

@petroleumjelly, That crumb wasn't intended purely as a crumb. I posted that in hopes to jog Robb's memory of the neighborhood. Like I mentioned before, I forgot to post in it for a few days. When I finally did post in it, he didn't respond. That OOC post was to remind him to check because he hadn't responded in three days since my first post. He posted in the neighborhood thread that night, so I took it that it worked to remind him.
As for the Eggman crumb, I just felt uncomfortable about it. I wouldn't ever see a reason to legitimately crumb VT but that's me. I realize now that it may have just been something Eggman may do, while I do still take issue with it in general. Finally, I never tried to "push the lynch through". I solely was supporting my reason for my vote on him. Not trying to convince anyone to hammer in that moment

This part is overdefensive because he feels the need to explain beyond the point about the neighbor crumb.

Then, like I said before, he continues the conversation when it's not really getting anywhere, just to try and defend himself.

Town wouldn't care nearly as much as dragon does about one person's scumread on them.

[Infinity 324]

-_- Seriously dude?

[Infinity 324]

F-oh-ex, do you have a scumread on petroleum?

[Infinity 324]

Ok this is stupid.

I want everyone to list their top 3 lynch targets for today and explain in detail, if you haven't already, why they are there. Then at least we will have something to discuss and we can compromise or if worst comes to worst just plurality lynch where everyone gets on the wagon of the most popular scum spect. For me it would be dragon, Mario, and eggman.

Or at least say something, I'd rather get into stupid arguments with dragon that this. Hopefully the replacements will help.

[Infinity 324]

Just replace out and stop posting

[Infinity 324]

What are your reads on eggman and mario

[Infinity 324]

Yay we got some posts and replacements?

Unfortunately Titus is a lot better at scum than town but I think I'll be able to get a good reason on her slot. Did a lot of meta research for the last game we were in.

Man NJAC's entrance copying Titus's entrance is so awkward

Eggman, do you think creature's recent posts have been scummy?

I would like f-oh-ex to explain his reads more, but petroleum, can you explain why what you pointed out is alignment indicative?

[Infinity 324]

I would like f-oh-ex to explain his reads more, but petroleum, can you explain why what you pointed out is alignment indicative?

Please be more specific with your question.

You said f-oh-ex gave weak reasoning for why he scum reads crazy over mario, I don't really see how that is alignment indicative.

I'm also not sure why not vote switching to compromise is scummy, I and a few others did the same thing even though it was clear

someone

had to switch. I was really hoping mario would get lynched.

Eggman, what info would a NJAC lynch give you about DGB and why? You don't see very confident that they're scum partners like you claim.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah and answer the question about creature please.

[Infinity 324]

Gut feeling that dragon's and eggman's scum reads on mario aren't busses but mario slot has been independently quite scummy and I think that lynch would give a lot of information. I don't like it when legitimate d1 wagons never go through.

[Infinity 324]

Vote stays on dragon for now, I want to hear NJAC's thoughts but I think that's a very good lynch for today.

[Infinity 324]

What do you think about mario slot

[Infinity 324]

I feel like mario's deadline activity could be scum giving up; he seemed to be not very invested in the game no matter his alignment.

Eggman, neapolitan can be a scum or town role.

[Infinity 324]

It's possible that he wanted to get towncred, and it's possible he had just given up at the point. It is town points in his favor, I admit.

[Infinity 324]

Hmm, I don't think this IIoA is scummy necessarily...how do you know it's not just town rereading?

[Infinity 324]

The part about busywork is fair, though it's not really fair to say he doesn't draw conclusions since he's not finished yet.

How much of the game have you read? What are your interpretations so far?

[Infinity 324]

Wait so you didn't read the game, saw one questionable post, and are ready to lynch someone?

cmon titus you're better than this

At least read some of the game....

[Infinity 324]

I don't have anything in particular to point you to, but it's hard to take your reads seriously if you haven't read any of the game.

[Infinity 324]

Mhm, and there it took forever for you to realize who the scum were...

Read the last 5-10 games and get back to me. You can also skim these ISOs
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Right now you're being useless. Your vote may be on scum but it's for a bad reason and no one can read you if you act like this.

[Infinity 324]

5-10 pages* lol

[Infinity 324]

Well eggman did ask a question about whether there was 3 scum in the game, that question rubbed me the wrong way but assuming there are 3 scum now makes sense.

I do think 2 maf and an SK is most likely though.

[Infinity 324]

Eggman already outed his VT "crumb", I'm still not really sure why he did that as either alignment.

That reason to townread eggman seems very generic and fabricated though

[Infinity 324]

dragon, mario, eggman, titus, petroleum (for SK), derek, f-oh-ex, DGB, creature

You moved up because I looked over gunslingers again and I saw you were playing similarly. I would like to see more from you though that's not tunneling on creature.

[Infinity 324]

Well Eggman's who I am suspecting so I don't get why you would think I am tunnelling on Creature. #confused

That was to Derek, silly

@Eggman,

Pick one. No reasons.

Are you overconfident or not subtle?

What's the point of this question?

[Infinity 324]

I think this is town Titus, not sure yet

[Infinity 324]

dragon, mario, eggman, titus, petroleum (for SK), derek, f-oh-ex, DGB, creature

You moved up because I looked over gunslingers again and I saw you were playing similarly. I would like to see more from you though that's not tunneling on creature.

Frankly, I think it's weird you care about him tunneling creature at this point. If he thinks he hit scum then I'm fine with him sticking to it and I'm willing to say creature could be scum. If this lynch goes through and creature flips scum, I want infinity lynched next. If we can't get enough for a creature wagon then I think we should lynch infinity. VOTE: Creature

I have a problem with him tunneling creature since it fits the pattern of a scum tunnel more than a town tunnel. Why so eager to defend him? Why wouldn't I have a problem with someone tunneling my top townread?

I don't get why I should've known the answer to the question to titus

[Infinity 324]

Town tunneling usually involves yelling at people for not seeing someone is scum, scum tunnel is usually to avoid discussion about other stuff. Thorough derek talked a little bit about other stuff...

[Infinity 324]

So, I'm trying to finish reading the 60+ pages, and I see Titus refuse to read the game. Some thoughts come to my mind:

1) Who doesn't need to read the game to solve it? Scum does, because they already know who is scum and town.

2) Why would a scum replacing in need to read a 60+ pages game when they have daytalk?

It's annoying, but I don't really think it's a scumtell. She's just being lazy/wants to scumhunt based on interactions (if she's town).

[Infinity 324]

Daytalk is enabled.

Hmm...genuine or fake townslip?

The question is why you didn't call out NJAC for a scumslip there.

[Infinity 324]

Ok my bad

[Infinity 324]

It's annoying, but I don't really think it's a scumtell. She's just being lazy/wants to scumhunt based on interactions (if she's town).

What was your read on atm?

Null leaning town

Where are you in your catchup and what are your thoughts?

[Infinity 324]

Null leaning town

Where are you in your catchup and what are your thoughts?

Anything specific that made you read him leaning town?

I was busier than expected yesterday so I couldn't read far from page 17. I'll try to finish reading today. Until that page I'm suspecting Smithereens' slot and maybe atm.

Just a gut feeling, he looked like town that was genuinely lost.

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NJAC

[Infinity 324]

So am I scum for it?

[Infinity 324]

So am I scum for it?

Let me elaborate.

NJAC's original post pinged my gut, hence the naked vote. I wanted to see his reaction. He didn't ask why or try to get my thought process, he simply said "naked votes are scummy" which doesn't really have a purpose aside from throwing shade without committing to anything.

So yeah, this slot is scum.

[Infinity 324]

I already told you, the post pinged my gut and I wanted to see how you reacted.

[Infinity 324]

Both slots.

If it's necessary to read the whole game, why did you randomly throw shade on two biggest obvtown posters here? You're acknowledging that players like interactions, yet that style you argue is anti-town.

WRT atm: kinda fencesitting on some things going on during D1, lack of contribution, his vote in 262 for eggman feels ungenuine and opportunistic (here I'm assuming egg is actually a lynchbait). Not a strong read but enough to read him leaning scum more than town.

WRT Smithereens: basically what was said during the beginning of D1 that scum would support a strong player like rob instead of attacking him. His interactions with Creature about the egg crumb doesn't convince me. Again not a strong read.

I'm not randomly throwing shade on two players (which two are you referring to, BTW?), I'm just trying to interact with the currently active players. I also want to understand how you are supposed to scumhunt without reading the past pages. And I'm voting you because I'm scum-reading your slot, due to what your predecessor did and your current attitude of not reading.

I just try to keep the game moving as I finish catching up, of course my reads can change but it's worth to put some pressure meanwhile.

It's this one, your reads don't feel genuine and it seems non-committal.

[Infinity 324]

Eggman and Infinity 324: you have both pressed on Titus for not reading the entire game. Is there a reason you are not similarly pressing DrippingGoofball for not reading the entire game? They have both literally said they prefer to hunt through direct interactions.

Well DGB looks towny and so did smith, and she has given some opinions on the game. I didn't have a strong read on titus' slot, and she hadn't really given many opinions yet.

[Infinity 324]

6.)

Somebody sell me on the Creature case. I have a Townlean on him. Why is he scum? I do not find the "lying" about the Eggman crumb persuasive in the slightest. I do not think his Day One hunting by "process of elimination" is scummy. I assume there is more meat on the bone?

His reads today are erratic and poorly explained. Coupled with him ignoring my questions multiple times when I attempted to get him to expand on his thoughts, I feel like he's more trying to throw out random shit to see what sticks then actually trying to game solve.

This is not a common scum strategy, so I'm not really sure why you think this is scummy. Why not town with poorly organized thoughts?

Whenever someone says "so and so is throwing out shit to see what sticks" they end up being town.

[Infinity 324]

-_-

[Infinity 324]

Ok Titus v NJAC isn't SvS. (unless one of them is SK I guess)

Pretty sure it's just titus town NJAC scum

[Infinity 324]

Which part do you want me to explain

[Infinity 324]

I don't think you guys are scumbuddies because I don't see why you guys would need to distance at this point, and I don't think you would do it when you both just replaced in.

You're scum for what I already mentioned, plus your scumread on titus looks fabricated.

Titus is town because if it's not SvS, and you're scum, then she must be town. Also this feels like her town game to me.

Why did you ask?

[Infinity 324]

What do you mean I'm not "pushing your wagon"? Do you want me to come in every few goes and say "NJAC is still scum guys, let's lynch him?"

I think Titus is a pretty hard player to read without meta.

[Infinity 324]

every few hours*

[Infinity 324]

Dragon is my only other scumread atm.

You didn't answer my question about why you wanted me to explain everything in my other post

[Infinity 324]

What's your read on eggman, titus

[Infinity 324]

petroleum, how about we lynch NJAC today, and when he flips scum, we can look into DGB? I think DGB and smith displayed a careless attitude that's more likely to come from town, but it's possible you're right.

[Infinity 324]

Game needs life. Someone sub in please.

[Infinity 324]

Let's lynch NJAC

[Infinity 324]

Is it a coincidence that NJAC slot wagon stalled on both d1 and d2...?

[Infinity 324]

Ugh, sorry guys, losing motivation for this game

NJAC still scum, creature slot still town

[Infinity 324]

DGB looks town to me

[Infinity 324]

It's hard to say, it feels like she's less trying to get town reads and more trying to figure out the game.

[Infinity 324]

Bleh

I'll respond to DGB case later

[Infinity 324]

gg

I'm disappointed in the play of both sides in lylo. Anyway, this game was difficult for town since it was going so slowly, so not very much info was generated and the info there was wasn't really used well (except a little at the end there).

[Infinity 324]

Fine by me to release the scum PT

[Infinity 324]

The setup looks somewhat scumsided to me; the issue I have is that I doubt people would expect 2 rolecops to be in the setup, and that kind of defeats the purpose of the rolecop neighborhood (which presumably is to give results to each other).

[Infinity 324]

No, the reason it's a neighbourhood is to give a clue that something screwy is going on. If someone claims Rolecop and you're considering counterclaiming them, but they're you're neighbour, then you're likely to think twice.

This is something I saw as a potential problem, though.

Maybe, I guess it's a risk you take with the setup.

[Infinity 324]

@Fix, You did damn well for your first scumgame. Be proud. You took advice very well too.

Agree with this