Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[ofrhz]

Hey ruru, you scum this game?

VOTE: ruru

[ofrhz]

Lol i just ppayed anime game thdn go clas lolol i rub u so fust

It’s Friday afternoon, so my brain has clearly shut off but wat

[ofrhz]

Oh shit you guys are onto me, brb getting an avatar

[ofrhz]

i'm so cute now

[ofrhz]

^this. the contrast in her entrances is blinding. Yeah I’ll sheep you ruru

VOTE: Mohab500

[ofrhz]

Dino, do you think scum would pick Vig knowing that you are in the game?

Hmm, setting aside the “what would scum do,” wouldn’t it be apparent when there’s a vig by day2? I think it’s likely for a vig to kill on N1 when the town:scum ratio is guaranteed to be in town’s favor.

since d1 reads tend to be shit, I could actually see why they would want to wait until N2. But in the worst case scenario (2 mislynches and vig shoots town), this would bring us to MyLo D3.

...eh this role is a gambit.

[ofrhz]

I like being ignored lol

Ain’t nobody ignoring you now

Wow me with your thoughts on the game

[ofrhz]

d1 reads tend to be shit, I could actually see why they would want to wait until N2. But in the worst case scenario (2 mislynches and vig shoots town), this would bring us to MyLo D3.

yeah no, if there were two mislynches, vig wouldn’t use their night action. Point still stands though, why wouldn’t a vig shoot N1?

[ofrhz]

okay pintu can be town as well

????

[ofrhz]

Oh em gee

Do you always go post by post when catching up

[ofrhz]

My vote on mohab is now policy

[ofrhz]

hello!

VOTE: the worst

scum enters the wagon!

Am I missing something because I only see one duck

VOTE: Oxy

UglyDuck is also a duck

Still the same 'scum trying to blend in' feeling

I'm not seeing how the post is more scum indicative than not. In fact, I would be inclined to suggest it's more town indicative than anything else.

It draws attention and provokes reactions. Not something scum want at this point.

Disagree. It felt blending-in-y to me. Like 4 other people just voted TW, so she might as well hop on cuz everyone else is doing it. Also it felt kinda weird coming from Scioness in particular - like it was an empty vote and I'm low-key surprised she didn't have more to say about the fact that a wagon had formed so quickly before joining it.

cool sunshine is town, who's next

why

Disagree here, It seems blendy you're right, but that doesn't mean it's scummy.

What's the diff between the worst and Scioness Sajj? Why is the worst scummy for trying to blend in but not Scioness?

Why do you think sunshine is town?

[ofrhz]

VOTE: Oxy

206 is an attempt to eliminate my existence.

Is this a serious vote?

It’s bothering me because you get called out for following Math’s vote and then you move your vote soon afterwards onto someone else for not so serious reasons.

that alarms you why......?

Because I've obv.towned enough even number 2 can see with his left eye closed.

Er.... I don’t think Mathdino said he thinks you’re town.

[ofrhz]

Brb dying

[ofrhz]

what did you expect from me after seeing 4 people wagon on first page?

I expected a 5 paragraph essay + 10-item bulleted list with links to posts that explain your vote.

[ofrhz]

Oxy seems more diplomatic in this game

oxy seems a lot less opinionated and that's worrying.

Is this AI though?

[ofrhz]

Let me try to do one of these:

Townie:
Ruru, pin, Scioness
The worst, Mathdino

IDK:
Draynth, Sunshine, Oxy, skitter

Scummy:
Mohab500, UglyDuck, AP

[ofrhz]

He’s a strong town player. and if what he says is true, he’ll bus his own scum partners, thereby doing some of the work for us.

So no, I don’t want to lynch him d1. Plus I think everything he said in 280 is true.

[ofrhz]

Lmao Oxy

[ofrhz]

@Math, Yeah oops. Do you have any scum games you can point me to?

[ofrhz]

PFP

ofrhz is the only player so far not to townread me.

I like this.

I don’t like that they’re not doing anything about that.

Also, you guys shitpost a lot more than I’m used to. Though I’m used to 72hr day phases, so I guess there’s more time to piss about here...

Anyway, shameless kinda sorta OMGUS ‘cause you should follow the rest of the herd, damnit.

VOTE: ofrhz

I think what you’ve written is NAI for an experienced player.

Why do you think it’s important that I sort you right away?

What’s PFP

[ofrhz]

ofrhz

Math recently stated Sajj was his top scumpick. What are your thoughts on one of your townreads thinking another of your townreads is worthy of the lynch?

Did he? He was scumreading Scioness based off of one post, and I haven’t seen his updated opinion of Scioness after her recent posts.

I’m not bothered about it because it’s still early in the day, and either of our reads can evolve.

[ofrhz]

i'm so cute now

Probably at least 50% this

[ofrhz]

Math, who are your top scumspects?

[ofrhz]

What are your thoughts regarding ruru voting me based on townreading you, then?

I have never seen town ruru at work, but she is more proactive with her vote this game in comparison to her scumgame in Newbie 1859. It doesn't change my read on her.

[ofrhz]

I actually think TW is my top scumspect haha

Can you explain why?

[ofrhz]

Answered inline

ruru is voting me because they townread you and I’m voting you. Thoughts regarding that very specific situation please.

I don't really want to speculate as to why she voted for you, as she was awfully sparse with her explanation in voting for you. Since you asked, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for her to think you're scumreading me (also see tw's question directed at you). ruru could be confused why you are scumreading someone she townreads. Additionally, neither ruru nor I were townreading you, yet you chose to single me out for doing so. I think this was genuine mistake on your part though, but she might have seen it differently.

I guess you can consider the following non-exhaustive list of points you can cover:

Is it a good vote?

I think she thinks it's a productive use of her vote. For relatively inexperienced players, I believe trying to find the motivation behind what they do is more important than what I think they should be doing with her vote. I elaborated on possible motivations above ^. But to answer your question at face value, I think she should be voting for Mohab or AP or someone who hasn't bothered to talk in game

Will it progress reads on me and/or ruru?

See answer above. This also depends on her successive questioning and her ability to suss people out by engaging with them. I think that is a high ask for someone who is most likely playing her first game as town.

In summary, this, in addition to what I wrote earlier about her being more proactive this game, is why I am townreading her still. Have I answered your questions?

@other duckie, let him question me first.

[ofrhz]

I think skitter and pin both misread Math's post.

If Math were scum, he would:
1. Pick JK as one of the PRs
2. Wagon the town JK as scum
3. The town JK claims JK
4. scum!Math makes the argument that JK cannot possibly exist in this setup, therefore the JK must be lying
5. Town mislynches JK

Does that make more sense? Not really seeing the inconsistency here.

[ofrhz]

OK she got it without my explanation lol

[ofrhz]

(more useless posting)

<snip> why ofrhz?

....holy shit skitter spelled my name correctly.

[ofrhz]

Dino could be scum

Kinda agree actually.

Almost missed this. Can you elaborate on this skitter?

[ofrhz]

I missed ofhrz’s response there. Apologies. Question answered.

What did you get out of my responses?

Her responses make some degree of sense if she’s new, I guess... but I’ll choose to believe it’s scummy and you’re her partner trying to protect her with your responses to my questions.

This doesn't make sense though. Do my responses

only

make sense if I'm her partner? Do you scumread new players for not being as great in executing the Spanish inquisition as you?

[ofrhz]

do you scumread ofrhz?

@sunsh

pedit: townreading skitter

[ofrhz]

do you scumread ofrhz?

@sunsh

Nvm you literally answered this question in the last post of yours that I responded to. Wow I'm tired

[ofrhz]

ok I'll do this point by point. sorry about long post

@Sunshine, This was your original question:

What are your thoughts regarding ruru voting me based on townreading you, then?

In my original answer, I packaged my thoughts concisely for you. I actually thought I was doing you a favor given how people don't like wallposts on this site. I didn't realize you wanted me to literally regurgitate my thoughts.

Your responses make sense if you’re buddying her, also if you give newer players some slack or if you’re just trying to look like you’re active without revealing too much. The first one is scum-leaning, the second NAI, the third mostly just anti-town. I note you answered the questions I asked to the letter,

not really revealing that much more than when you evaded the initial question

, just with more words and a bit more reference to your experiences with ruru. Not a good sign.

I actually am a newer player, so maybe I can empathize a lot with newer players.
Just went over the fact that I didn't intentionally evade your original question. After I realized what you wanted, I did give you all of my thoughts about ruru's vote on me. (How many thoughts do you expect me to have on 298?) You can choose to believe that or not.

I am disturbed by the falsehood I pointed out previously.

OK about this "falsehood," would you not say this is singling me out:

ofrhz is the only player so far not to townread me.

You clearly made a few assumptions (that no one else was not-townreading you) when posting this. But at the time, I didn't realize this. That is why I said "Additionally, neither ruru nor I were townreading you, yet you chose to single me out for doing so.

I think this was genuine mistake on your part though

." How is this a falsehood?

Should I let someone who might be scum slide just because they’re new?

Not at all. I think you should consider a player's experience when trying to read them. You didn't do this, which is why I think your read on ruru is wrong.

This is also why I don’t like

ofrhz saying I’m ignoring other people for not townreading me

, as mentioned previously: when I voted, nobody else had said as much, and when ruru voted me, I put some pressure on her. You’ve joined that party, but I only have one vote *shrug*

?????? I never said this.

[ofrhz]

@AP- why is your vote on Oxy?

[ofrhz]

Good answer.

Why did you vote Oxy

[ofrhz]

VOTE: Draynth

For the weird tw read or the weird AP read or
Ruru I need moar

[ofrhz]

AP....

Why did you vote Oxy

VOTE: AP

[ofrhz]

Now, you're all "ruru is new, man" so I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to comment on the context of the vote [...]

You've said you're new yourself (how many games have you played?) so you get a bit of slack in this regard, but not that much, because you also seem to be quite a logical fellow.

I mean, you haven't even asked ruru about their vote, so it's kinda hard for me to accept you're thinking about the motivation behind it while not trying to encourage her to think about and then explain it.

To be honest, I only thought about ruru’s motivation for her vote because you asked me to. I have her as a strong townread, and her vote on you didn’t change that for reasons I have already explained. I also didn’t see your vote on me as scummy bc like I said earlier, I don’t think you realized that many people were nullreading you (whereas ruru conceivably did not make the same conclusion). ...so like why would I ask ruru about her vote of my own accord?

I do think you have a valid point in getting people to be more clear when voting people, but if I were to crack down on this, I would be a big hypocrite in this regard, not to mention I don’t think I’m in any position to be coaching anybody yet. This is my second mafia game.

You've said I'm singling you out. Surely that's implying that I'm ignoring other people?

Ah I see where you’re coming from. No it’s implying you chose to vote for me for something that multiple people did. But for the last time, I believe you didn’t realize multiple people were nullreading you.

Who am I ignoring? I've pinged and pressured ruru about it, I've pinged skitter about it, so I'm clearly not ignoring them.

To belabor this point, i don’t think you’re ignoring anyone.

I am passive-aggressively (if that's even the phraseology) telling people who are sheeping math's read that I'm not happy they're doing that, so I'm not ignoring them.

Hmm this definitely went over my head and might have been too subtle

I explain what I meant by "people not town reading me" here, in p.edit2, which you quoted in the second of the two quote blocks above, meaning I'm confused why you need to ask the questions you asked in the first of the two quote blocks.

Yes and I understood your explanation here. But my post with the answers in purple (340) was made before you posted this explanation. Any successive posts (I think just 386) were made to clarify that post in purple, because I didn’t understand how you could have arrived at the conclusions you did.

You seem more interested in the reasoning behind me calling you a liar than saying that I failed to adequately explain to you what I meant. Why is that?

you were either misunderstanding me fundamentally or were/are moving the goalposts around. For example, the falsehoods I allegedly perpetuated and me saying you were ignoring other people were two things I did not do. And now you accused me of not genuinely thinking about the motivations behind ruru’s vote, but like.... I only tried to think about her vote because you asked me to.

I can see why you thought I said you were ignoring others though, so I’m kind of leaning towards you misunderstanding me from the very beginning.

[ofrhz]

The way you out it makes me look like his compulsory complementary second half: moron! I thus have to go after him.

Man, I just want an explanation for why your vote was and still is on Oxy. This doesn’t have to be as painful as a visit to the dentist

[ofrhz]

what did you expect from me after seeing 4 people wagon on first page?

I expected a 5 paragraph essay + 10-item bulleted list with links to posts that explain your vote.

Tbh, same. And kinda expected you to say more than just talking about people's reactions to your entrance.

My post was a joke. I know Scioness likes to drop massive cases when voting for people, but I don’t think this assumption can be made for RVS votes.

[ofrhz]

Almost all the reads seemed super generic / possibly faked

This makes sense.

This same reasoning is making me doubt my townread of Scioness. I don’t really see an issue with her rvs vote, but her reads were kinda vague even if I agreed with most of them.

[ofrhz]

"you're not obvtown yet even though you're usually obvtown as town"
is a valid reason for voting someone IMO

Ok gonna try harder to newb town

[ofrhz]

This is super overexplained for no reason.

I don't like that he suggests ruru should be going after lurkers.

This is super overexplained, but for a good reason. Before I wrote this overexplained post in purple, I gave a shorter answer, which wasn't what Sunshine wanted, so I talked off the wall to give him what he wanted. In response, Sunshine said that I answered his question because of this purple post.

...Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

[ofrhz]

ofrhz - thoughts on oxy?

I'm not sure at time of writing this, so lemme type out loud:
- Early game, Oxy announced a couple of townreads like he did in 1859 (btw, Oxy was really town in 1859).
- Some mild sucking up to Mathdino, even though he's not quite townreading Math just yet. But tbh lots of people are doing this (sucking up), so I haven't decided if this point means anything yet.
- 280 [Math explained why he didn't want to push a Scioness wagon yet]: Seems to be a turning point for Oxy where he started townreading Mathdino. I agree with Oxy in that 280 is pro-town.
(...except last time I checked this thread, Mathdino was literally pushing Scioness lmao)
- 339: Oxy is no longer townreading Sunshine? hmmm this kinda contradicts 84.
- 376: I'm kinda confused by why he thinks I have a different mindset this game. I have more experience going into this game (ok, 1 game vs 0 but still), and this game, no one posted anything blatantly sketchy in the first page of the game for me to tunnel on. However, I think multiple people have echoed similar sentiments about not being sure how to read me at this point though (and my recent wallposts probably didn't help with that oops), so I think he was prudent to wait for more content.
- 378: Not really related to oxy, but multiple people have now said skitter cannot fake this entrance. ...really? skitter can't post 56 as scum?
- 388 [Oxy townreading Mathdino for holding back]: I think multiple people have brought up why this logic for doesn't make sense. I'd like to see Oxy follow up with this before passing judgment.
- I see Oxy has toned down the LAMIST the game. town++ lmao

I guess I'm tentatively townreading Oxy rn

@Oxy-

can you explain your read on Sunshine?

@Scioness-
- Not sure why you're pointing out the 'grossness' in Oxy's post. Like if Oxy did the same 'gross' thing in Newbie 1859, wouldn't it make it town-indicative or NAI because Oxy was town in 1859????

[ofrhz]

@Scioness
got reads? besides Oxy

[ofrhz]

- I see Oxy has toned down the LAMIST the game. town++ lmao

Why do you find this town-indicative for him?

Trying to not do things that would get him hard-tunneled for the wrong reasons is pro town. His playstyle has definitely changed, and it

could

be scum looking to not stick out as much, but this change is for the better

[ofrhz]

I have her [ruru] as a strong townread...

Why is this?

Spoiler:

Thoughts boiled down:
- She was a bit stiff in her last scumgame. She's done like a 180 this game on that front with regards to how she reacted in RVS and making jokes, etc. This is the major reason why I'm townreading her.
- She was really afraid to engage people as scum. In the scum pt for 1859, ruru was also stressing out over the fact that Mathdino replaced into the game, so I think skitter has a point about how scum!ruru would not vote Mathdino.
- Not really scumhunting, wanting to wagon lurkers. In her scumgame, she didn't really vote anyone who wasn't a lurker D1 until the last possible minute (in particular, she was voting lurkers over her other scumreads for most of D1). Her vote on Draynth was pretty good and not something scum ruru did in our previous game

Like this was her RVS vote last game. Scum trying to look like town trying to find scum.

VOTE: eth0s

Has a recent Last visited date and hasn't posted yet.

I was gonna find more examples of her stiffness, but I kinda got lazy.

[ofrhz]

Yeah I think you guys have a point, but Oxy toned down his LAMIST in D2 of 1859. So I don't tthink scum!Oxy is more likely than town!Oxy to tone down LAMIST. I was more thinking from the angle of him not being LAMIST-y helps people form better reads, which is pro-town given how much town was dragged down by that in 1859.

[ofrhz]

Draynth

- Not a lot to go off of, but reads seem OK. I mean I disagree with his top two pushes, but I think for anyone to be pushing Math/TW right now I would of been granting some TP to because there has to be like a 0% chance they get lynched today.

Er... your two scumreads are in his townreads. And also while you have some overlapping reads with Draynth, your reasons for those reads are different (e.g. Draynth's read on skitter was null bc he literally just skipped skitter's posts, whereas you have a nullread on skitter for a very different reason). What there anything else about his reads that pinged you as town?

Pin

- So I am 4 games on this forum and this is the third with Pin. I have thought he was skum in every game I have played with him, and so far have yet to be correct. I am

putting him under Null because I am getting skummy vibes, but obv that has not worked out for me in the past

. The thing is that

I am getting skummy vibes because he is playing differently

than he has in the other games I have played with him. Normally way more involved, and pushing the game along. That could be because Math/TW are kind of driving the bus here, or not, so yeah.. for now Null.

Lots of hedging

Ruru

- Perfect amount of content for skum combined with the the content of that content. A little bit of the Game Set Up talk, a little bit of the rando joke around side content, some vote throws, and (what stood out to me) is just like lots of random questions. Not random I suppose, but questions that have been answered based on context of game or like ambiguous questions about general game play. They said this is their second game ever, so there could be that - but just a note from my POV, bc this site has so many ALTs, I disregard every player's "amount of games played posts".

Nah I believe she's telling the truth when she says this is her second game.

ofrhz

- So this is kind of my main spot at this point. Starting with the Vig shot concept from a while back "why wouldn't Vig shoot N1". Regardless of the correct play, I feel like looking like it from that perspective is

worried skum mindset

where as Town Mindset would be "Oh god what if I guessed wrong".


So yeah.

I don't see myself getting a Ruru train going rn based on everyone's posted standing

, so... VOTE: ofrhz

I'm not really seeing this? Someone brought up that vig is anti-town because a vig could just mis-fire on town, so I was trying to get at an optimal vig play here.

I kinda feel like you're going after me for being an easier mislynch than ruru.
VOTE: UglyDuck call it omgus, idgaf

not reading pedits lmao

[ofrhz]

I think you may have the wrong duckling

Hey Scioness, you were probably confusing me with TW (he posted 480). Have I (upside duck) dodged any of your questions?

I'm going to change my avatar. Was fun being upside down while it lasted

[ofrhz]

Normally i would say this is a set up post, but as you are voting for me doesn’t really make sense.

Bur also your read is irrelevant bc i have only posted one thing lol

. Misguided town or skum - idk. But overconfident this one is.

wtf

still not reading pedits

[ofrhz]

@tw, could I get an updated reads/lynchpool list from you?

[ofrhz]

I'm feeling townvibes from AP that I can't explain

@AP - can you explain the TW read for dumb me

[ofrhz]

@Math, but in any particular order? What did you think of UD's reads

[ofrhz]

l0ljk one of you/ƃuᴉlʞɔnp is reasonably likely scum here.

I agree with this

Maybe both

Not so much this

[ofrhz]

@Math, actually why are you scumreading me again? PoE?

[ofrhz]

^ more troubling is the fact that he never really followed up on interacting with TW imo

[ofrhz]

^ I did ask you, a townlean of mine, a question in 501

Otherwise that's kinda valid to point out, but really I'm having trouble keeping track of everything and keep having to ask people for their goddamn reads.

@ruru: can you vote for who you think is scum? or at least say who you think is scum

[ofrhz]

Also I'm not a passive aggressive person.

I did answer it earnestly

[ofrhz]

@Pin, I don't want to fight you but ???

[ofrhz]

Scioness - Trying to make some cases on some people for some kind of NAI reasons (IMO). However, as I am heavily TR on the worst right now, I feel like

skum would be the first to jump off the L2 TW wagon early Day 1 for the credit

(assuming I am right about Town!TW). Summary: Cases being made are skummy, actions seem more on the towny side of things.

I'm calling this slot town based on this quote alone. Fight me.

@UglyDuck
Scioness put the TW wagon at L-2 so she can't just jump off it. Unless you're saying Scioness's L-2 vote on the wagon is town-indicative. I'm not seeing the connection between the read and the explanation.

Also the person who did what you bolded is Sunshine. Does that affect your read on him?

[ofrhz]

You're misreading him, Ofrhz. He understands that Sajj was not the person to hop off.

I'm still not understanding his case.

In post 512, UglyDuck wrote:
Draynth - Not a lot to go off of, but reads seem OK. I mean I disagree with his top two pushes, but I think for anyone to be pushing Math/TW right now I would of been granting some TP to because there has to be like a 0% chance they get lynched today.

Er... your two scumreads are in his townreads. And also while you have some overlapping reads with Draynth, your reasons for those reads are different (e.g. Draynth's read on skitter was null bc he literally just skipped skitter's posts, whereas you have a nullread on skitter for a very different reason). What there anything else about his reads that pinged you as town?

This is scummy by Ofrhz.

????

[ofrhz]

?? I don’t get it?

What was the action that Scioness did that made her seem townie?

[ofrhz]

oh yeah thanks for the reminder

[ofrhz]

whew tensions are running high

~ some lighthearted fluff to break the tension ~

<SNIP>
which is about as ai as

whether or not he smells like fucking fish

.

fwiw, I don't think I smell like fish

[ofrhz]

well hey now that's personal attack

[ofrhz]

That is a great avi choice. <3

thanks bb <3

[ofrhz]

The really fucking annoying thing is upon further consideration I can’t fathom how scum!you would be that stupid, so I can’t bring myself to actually vote for you anymore.

-> I don't get UD's vote on ofrhz. It's kinda *so* bad that it might come from town tbh?

tfw two of your experienced townreads say this

If what pin says is true, UD could be inexperienced scum.

i voted ofrhz because

there's an actual case on him as detailed by sunshine

and because multiple people have noted that he's different from 1859

I believe Sunshine is now townleaning me.

[ofrhz]

wtf is the me getting bussed theory everyone keeps mentioning?

Welcome to the scumteam. It consists of me, you, and TW.

[ofrhz]

Oxy, you realize your case on me is basically that I'm different from the last game? A lot of people have said the same thing about you

pedit: wat why

[ofrhz]

It was at TW. I don't get what I did that would deserve a PL

[ofrhz]

Or actually anyone can answer that really

[ofrhz]

I was explaining to UD the bussing theory

But yeah I kinda get that tbh

lmao whoops vote me

I'll even self hammer

[ofrhz]

fwiw, I wasn't scum claiming I was really trying to explain it to UD while simultaneously demonstrate how stupid of a theory I thought it was

[ofrhz]

THIS ALSO DOES NOT COME FROM TOWN

...I kinda feel like I did something really stupid and anti-town? And now you guys have to lynch me because of my stupidity, so yeah I do feel bad

pedit: wat. of all the people to not push for lynching me, I wouldn't have expected it to come from Math

[ofrhz]

Hmm, I'm not sure if anything else I say at this point will be useful. So I'm going to bed

If people wanna PL me, then I probably deserve that

[ofrhz]

whew tensions are running high

~ some lighthearted fluff to break the tension ~

<SNIP>
which is about as ai as

whether or not he smells like fucking fish

.

fwiw, I don't think I smell like fish

Are you a passive observer or are you playing in this game?

At this point there are a bunch of serious conversations and spicy reads/accusations being thrown around and explored.

And you decide to shitpost? Where is the game solve you had last game?

p.edit Pin, you're my next deep dive. The worst also ignored you this game. He spoke to you directly two times and about you once through post 626 (where i stopped recording stuff) posts 235, 381, and 209. 2 fluff posts and him asking me why I town read you.

This wasn’t a shitpost. I did feel that the level of aggro, while not personal yet, was too uncomfortable for me as a player in this game.

I read AP’s argument, but I wasn’t really going to seriously consider scumteam suggestions with ruru in it. Plus other people were pointing out some of the other assumptions I saw in AP’s case.

??? is my lazy way of asking people to elaborate. Gonna start using real words now.

Other conversation going on was you and pin about the first couple of sentences of UD’s readlist, which once I understood, didn’t convince me all that much, but the rest of UD’s readlist was scummy anyway.

Tbh I think you’re overstating how many questions I ask. I asked a lot of questions last game because I simply didn’t understand what people were saying or the arguments they were trying to push.

Skitter, Math, TW - the order of my reads on these people from town to scum, but tbh they all feel town to me. Having said that, I skimmed one of Math and TW’s scum game each, and I have zero confidence in my reads on Math and TW right now. I’m not sure how I’m supposed to have an opinion when these three decided it’s not worth lynching any of them today and are purposefully holding back some of the reasons why they’re scumreading each other.

On that last point, I read TW’s long post from last night, and it makes sense much like a convincing argument would without anyone to argue the other side. So I’m just gonna wait for Math to respond if he wants.

And I’m like kinda hyper aware of how TW might be pocketing me, and I think I’ve been asking people (Math and AP) about their scumreads on him because of this.

[ofrhz]

@pin, who do you think is the scumteam?

[ofrhz]

On a side note, I’m pretty sure Oxy is town lol

[ofrhz]

The 1v1 between Math and TW is fabricated? I didn’t get that feeling at all

[ofrhz]

I’ll reread their conversation more carefully later but typing on phone now

[ofrhz]

fine.
VOTE: UglyDuck

What happened to your UD townread?

[ofrhz]

2. Votes for TW/ruru as lynches and UD as a vig shot when there's an actual lynch wagon on UD, and TW and I are harder to lynch (also if there's no vig, scum know it and have way less responsibility for their vig votes)

this is kinda valid

3. When put on the spot, claims he was "less sure" of UD for a reason that should honestly make UD 95% town rather than "less sure scum" if TW+ruru are scum.

I think this is nitpicking at language a bit. AP’s sentiment is the same as what you expected, ie he started thinking UD might be town after all.

c.f. I picked up on 524 and I'm new and terrible at this game

I didn’t follow this. What did you pick up on in 524?

like why are we duckhunting?????

UD is scummy

[ofrhz]

@Mohab: can you explain your scumreads on Draynth and skitter?

[ofrhz]

HURT: draynth

Who are your scumreads?

I fixed your tags

[ofrhz]

HURT: Draynth

[ofrhz]

WTF

[ofrhz]

Dino, do you think scum would pick Vig knowing that you are in the game?

Hmm, setting aside the “what would scum do,” wouldn’t it be apparent when there’s a vig by day2? I think it’s likely for a vig to kill on N1 when the town:scum ratio is guaranteed to be in town’s favor.

since d1 reads tend to be shit, I could actually see why they would want to wait until N2. But in the worst case scenario (2 mislynches and vig shoots town), this would bring us to MyLo D3.

...eh this role is a gambit.

yeah no, if there were two mislynches, vig wouldn’t use their night action. Point still stands though, why wouldn’t a vig shoot N1?

Here, I was trying to figure out if the vig should shoot N1. UD, you were literally scumreading me for this. And then you go ahead and post:

Real question here - would Vig staying silent and waiting to shoot until a future night be the worst idea?

It might have the effect of pushing skum into a fake claim that they could CC.
It would generate the situation down the road some time where there is going to be that inevitable plurality lynch, and if the lynch is bad then shot will have much more of a chance being directed at skum (as opposed to N1).
IDK - just thinking out loud.

But actually, how can you have such a strong scumread on me (you apparently want to both vote lynch me and vig shoot me) and then turn around and do the exact same thing?

[ofrhz]

so I mean I put it there, and then you bolded it.... I said it was a real question. As in, "admitting I could of been wrong, someone give me some insight"....

My question wasnt a real question because I didn’t demarcate it as such? Like really?

I’m willing to consider your POV as town only because skitter said so, but it’s really hard for me to do when your scumreading me for really bad (and now hypocritical!) reasons

[ofrhz]

UNVOTE:

[ofrhz]

I have to write this up from my perspective as Town, and obv there are not a lot of people that think I am, but just try for a second:
- If I am skum then assuredly within the 5 voting me now there must also be skum. But like what, absolutely 0 attempt at a counter wagon on anyone else? If you think I am skum then it should make AP look super towny actually because they could of jumped on ofrhz with me.
- Now, as it happens, not skum here. So what just happened is a wagon was just dismantled to create my L-2. This actually creates the exact opposite point for AP and FOS hard on ofrhz. Skum loves Town vs Town Wagons, so if I am town AND ofrhz is town... this situation should not be happening.

I guess the exception to the above would be if actually 100% of skum is all not voting currently, but I find that unlikely.

I don’t think this post came from scum

Assuming you’re town:
By your reasoning, I think Math, Oxy, and AP did a pro town thing in moving their vote onto you. This is to avoid running up two wagons, and if they were scum, they would have left their vote on you. I had all three of those people as townreads/townleans, so ok.

I think it’s very possible that at least two scum are not voting for you. 7 people not on the wagon, 5 after you strike the people I think are strong townreads.

[ofrhz]

Throwing away all of my townreads but 4.

What if Math, Oxy, skitter, and ruru are all town? Given this, who should we lynch today? Please discuss (seriously, I’m stuck).

@ruru/skitter- I kinda feel like Math is town? Like he has a tendency to sheep other people’s reads, which he did last time with ruru and was wrong about (cough cough Math why you do this again), and he was doing that with me. He admitted several times that he didn’t read my posts from last game and didn’t read my posts this game. I don’t think this is out of character for him.

I get that you have other arguments for scumreading Math, but I can’t really comment on those meta arguments.

VOTE: Draynth
I wonder if he has gone back and read through all those games he said he would read.
- insert big thinking emoji here -

[ofrhz]

Yeah it is

Except the four people I singled out, I knocked down all of my townreads.

The rest in order of town to scum: pin, TW, Scioness, AP, Sunshine, UD, Mohab500, Draynth

I was trying to townread UD and literally had too many townreads.

Draynth is down there mostly for lack of content, and I can see how “I’m gonna read these three games and get back to you” could be a stalling technique. But like... I’ve screwed up somewhere.

[ofrhz]

I mean, this thought experiment is literally my reads lol. I might possibly be the only one with these reads though

[ofrhz]

Yeah. I did say I screwed up

[ofrhz]

The rest in order of town to scum: pin, TW, Scioness, AP, Sunshine, UD, Mohab500, Draynth

Could you tier these for me? Loosely is ok

Pin, TW, Scioness
AP, Sunshine, UD
Mohab500, Draynth

I think it’d be an effective use of my time to read people in the middle more closely.

[ofrhz]

What if Math, Oxy, skitter, and ruru are all town? Given this, who should we lynch today? Please discuss (seriously, I’m stuck).

If nobody else wants to lynch AP, then yeah probably Draynth/Mohab I guess

I'm kinda thinking sunshine/pin are somewhat towny now

TW closer to null than before

UD more town or scum?

[ofrhz]

@TW who are your scumreads after Math? I don’t think it’s useful to be voting for him today

[ofrhz]

What if Math, Oxy, skitter, and ruru are all town? Given this, who should we lynch today? Please discuss (seriously, I’m stuck).

Why town!oxy?

He is hard tunneling me, and I highly doubt this kind of tunnel is coming from scum. It’s incredibly similar to the Scioness tunnel where he thought literally everything Scioness wrote reeked scum, even though no one else saw it. I think the fact that he has maintained this read even though not that many people agree reinforces my read on him.

I think his vote on UD was townish in that he was trying to form wagons.

He has decided to sheep Math, but I don’t think this is buddying. Oxy only sheeps Math for reads he’s unsure about. But like in the case of TW, Math is townreading TW now I think, but Oxy is still scumreading TW.

There was a post somewhere in the pages that I skimmed from draynth that I kinda liked and thought didn't come from scum.

Specifically:

Does anyone wanna just compromise and lollynch Draynth

I'm gonna go ahead and suggest against this...?

I don't really feel like scum suggest themselves as a compromise lynch tbh.

I’m pretty sure Draynth was saying not to lynch him.

[ofrhz]

It makes sense in my head. I'm aggravated with mathdino, and I'm taking it out on you.

This doesn’t feel like buddying either

[ofrhz]

Actually I’m not sure why you’re scumreading the worst

[ofrhz]

okay fine
VOTE: Draynth
we have to lynch SOMEONE

i have way too many goddamn townreads honestly

We do, but it's not gonna be this one.

Why not

[ofrhz]

I just realized Sunshine is V/LA I was lowkey wondering where he was and why he wasn't Spanish inquisition-ing people. Bumping him up a little bit

TW is ignoring my requests for scumreads/is still voting for Math. Can someone tell me if this is a typical TW thing?

Scioness's latest posts are kinda lackluster. Will elaborate why in upcoming posts.

Pin, Sunshine
TW, Scioness, AP, UD
Mohab500, Draynth

HURT: UglyDuck

[ofrhz]

@Mohab

- Echoing what other people have said, if you don't think you can play this game, I do think you should consider replacing out.

[ofrhz]

@Scioness, in response to your posts:

Spoiler:

I was explaining to UD the bussing theory

But yeah I kinda get that tbh

lmao whoops vote me

I'll even self hammer

THIS ALSO DOES NOT COME FROM TOWN

I agree with this. I remember how ofrhz reacted to his wagon in 1859 and how it played out and this doesn't line up.

This wagon isn't at all comparable to the wagon in 1859. At this point, I think I had 3 votes on me (UD, Oxy, Md?); it takes 7 to lynch. In 1859, I was at L-1.
Aside from that difference, my reaction quoted here wasn't in response to the wagon on me. It was because I felt bad for doing something that might've been stupid and anti-town.

Almost all the reads seemed super generic / possibly faked

This makes sense.

This same reasoning is making me doubt my townread of Scioness. I don’t really see an issue with her rvs vote, but her reads were kinda vague even if I agreed with most of them.

could i get your thought process behind this? generic/faked =/= vague

Your readlist was both vague and generic.
Your readlist was 272 - the biggest thing that jumped out at me was your Oxy read. If he seems different to you, does he seem different in a scummy way? It doesn't seem like you really put that much thought into this and just offered up "Oxy seems different," and said it could be AI. It's lacking in nuance imo

ofrhz - thoughts on oxy?

I'm not sure at time of writing this, so lemme type out loud:
<Long bulleted list> I guess I'm tentatively townreading Oxy rn

not really feeling this
your point about 280 and 388 contradict themsleves unless you were just pointing it out (but why would you do that?)

No actually I don't think 280 and 388 contradict each other. In 388, I think Oxy was saying that Math holding back is pro-town. In 280, Mathdino explained why he was holding back. Anyway, laying it out helped me realize that Oxy's thought process made sense with respect to how he came about townreading and subsequently sheeping Math.

those are not bad reasons for townreading ruru but it seems lazy.

You say lazy, I say efficient. There are 12 people to sort, and I'm not going to spend time on someone who I very confidently think is town.

Yeah I think you guys have a point, but Oxy toned down his LAMIST in D2 of 1859. So I don't tthink scum!Oxy is more likely than town!Oxy to tone down LAMIST. I was more thinking from the angle of

him not being LAMIST-y helps people form better reads, which is pro-town

given how much town was dragged down by that in 1859.

why not?
also what do you think about the lamist stuff since you know it was designed to see him as scummy?

If you're asking why I think Oxy toning down LAMIST is more likely to come from town than scum, it is because Oxy stopped being LAMIST in 1859

as town

.
I think not doing LAMIST is pro-town, because of the reason in bold. I also don't think Oxy has been LAMIST-y in this game.

<snip>

I'm not really seeing this? Someone brought up that vig is anti-town because a vig could just mis-fire on town, so I was trying to get at an optimal vig play here.

I kinda feel like you're going after me for being an easier mislynch than ruru.
VOTE: UglyDuck call it omgus, idgaf

no clue what to think of this, the content as nothing to do with the vote.

This was my case against UglyDuck. I pointed out why several of his reads were bad in a scummy way. His readlist was scummy because 1) wow hedging and 2) UglyDuck probably thought I was an easy lynch and went to push for it based on really bad reasons.

do you think that Oxy is right about you being different?

This wasn't Oxy's point though. Oxy was saying that I am different this game

in a scummy way

. I think that's an important distinction. Anyway, no, I have not been different in a scummy way.

tl;dr Scioness is lacking a lot of nuance in her read of the game

p-edit: Good luck on your exams Mohab! Hope I get to play with you some other time.

[ofrhz]

TW is ignoring my requests for scumreads/is still voting for Math. Can someone tell me if this is a typical TW thing?

What do you wanna know? Been mostly avoiding the thread a bit

What are you worried about self-confbiasing? besides Math, do you have any good scumreads? also, why is your vote on Math? I thought you guys decided not to go at each other today.

My bad missed your earlier comment about stepping back. Tbh I think I should do the same.

[ofrhz]

Oxy vs TW feels TvT. Can’t tell if I’m confbiasing but I don’t want to lynch either of those two

I’m a fan of left shift NSG

Sheeping skitter on her AP theory - can we lynch in {UD, Draynth, possibly Scioness}

[ofrhz]

@ruru- does your vig plan mean we don’t vote on the vig shot at all until after the lynch has been decided?

[ofrhz]

If Oxy was scum, he should have been trying to lynch Draynth like 5 pages ago. Other than that, he sounds way too indignant and convinced he’s right (he’s reading past TW in multiple places and I feel like scum would... read more carefully if that makes sense). We got our confident Oxy back. I need to get to an actual computer so I can link posts but he is town cracking under pressure

TW I’m less sure about but IIRC he started sussing Oxy before you and skitter did. I need to double check this later but his read progression feels natural

[ofrhz]

1123 is ugh. None of the posts Draynth linked sound forced

[ofrhz]

Draynth wagon is such a compromise wagon

What do you mean by compromise wagon

@AP- could you explain the Draynth townread?

[ofrhz]

Him saying he will go read some cases but not doing so feels like stalling
Not voting Oxy despite the “Oxy sounds forced” narrative he’s pushing
I mean, he could be lazy town... or he could be lazy scum. He’s null at best

I really think Oxy is town and don’t see myself voting there

[ofrhz]

Wait are you and Draynth actually twins?

[ofrhz]

@AP, I’m guessing you’re not buying the “too dumb to be scum” argument?

[ofrhz]

Are we still talking about ugly duck

[ofrhz]

VOTE: UglyDuck

[ofrhz]

I'm starting to see a pattern here...

[ofrhz]

Who would you vote for in your lynchpool

[ofrhz]

oh yeah missed that, my bad

There are some weird interactions between you, UD, and Sunshine, and I'm starting to think 2 of you three are scum.

[ofrhz]

Yeah interaction was not the right word. Connection is better
UD's scumlist was - Draynth, me and Sunshine
SS's scumlist was - UD, me and Sunshine
Sunshine's scumlist was - AP/Oxy, had me and Scioness as null-scum, and then had this thing with UD

[ofrhz]

There are some weird >connecttions< between you, UD, and Sunshine, and I'm starting to think 2 of you three are scum.

[ofrhz]

I'm not seeing a real progression in your reads.

UD's 1255 wasn't really LAMIST? Out of all the things to scumread him for, this makes the least sense.
Sunshine has been V/LA for 2 days, and probably has been catching up.
I responded to one of your posts on me, and you haven't mentioned it so I'm not sure why you're scumreading me but your other two scumreads feel fake.

I don't think Oxy is scum here tbh,

Ofrhz tunnel isn't really there (although I agree with reasoning), but

that TW tunnel hits all the right notes.

...yet you're not scumreading TW here.

[ofrhz]

1255 - This post was a "why is this person still playing a game that he has replaced out of?" He was asking the mod about a game rule, which applies to everyone, regardless of alignment. It's like when Mohab came in and kept posting after he was replaced out, some people said "wtf stop posting in this game," and those posts aren't AI either imo. They're just getting everyone on the same page with the rules. Is there something scummy about how UD asked about game rules?

Uh, you said Sunshine was "had some good effort early but sort of disappeared," so I feel like him going V/LA and needing to catch up would have something to do with his presence (or relative lack of) in the game. I don't know why you brought up Sunshine being upset; Sunshine hasn't used his anger at UD as an excuse to not play the game. He has said multiple times that he is rereading the game. I don't think town!Scioness would say that being inactive and needing to catch up is scum indicative.

How was Oxy's TW tunnel different from his tunnel on me? What aspects of his tw tunnel make you think he was town?

I already answered this, I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up

[ofrhz]

^ whoops that was in response to 1334

[ofrhz]

2) ofhrz - There is just skum here. pushed me super hard - like forever. Has literally found every avenue, even ones I haven't responded in, to find skum reads on me. The fact that (shame to point admitted), their skum pool equals exactly the people lurking thus far in the game is super skummy. And also, the vote me, unvote me, vote me again thing just feels skummy. If it was one, and then a stay, that would be one thing, but to jump off to jump back on when there is another wagon just feels like skum trying to make a TvT wagon scenario.

I voted for you after you voted for me, so scumreading me for pushing you hard is kinda ???

Have you ever considered that maybe I'm town voting for who I think is scum?

I don't like how you keep doing wagon analysis as if you know people's alignments already. It would make more sense to do VCA tomorrow after we have a flip.

Earlier you assumed the wagons on me and you were SvT because you made a really bad assumption that there was no scum off-wagon, even though there were like

7

people who were not voting for either of us. If you're scum, that really makes me think at least one of your partners was off-wagon. And Scioness and Sunshine both weren't voting at that time, what a coinky-dink.

---

you have yet to explain what the connection between my, sunshine and uglyduck's scumreads mean.

more catching up tomorrow.

My tinfoil hat theory!

2 scum in {Scioness, UD, Sunshine}

The timing of your scumreads on me is a bit suspicious (i.e. all three happened after Mathdino said he was planning on sheeping Sunshine's case)

1. UD's original reason for scumreading me was just bad. He continues to scumread me for bad reasons.
2. Correct me if i'm wrong, but you were scumreading me because I seem ~different~ from 1859, but you still have yet to explain how I'm different in a scummy way
3. Hmm I'm actually not sure why Sunshine is null-scum reading me

Your scumreads give me the impression that you guys are bussing each other. And I really don't have any reason to townread you or UD tbh

I'd really like to lynch either UD or Scioness today. In that order.

[ofrhz]

You know you can find a case towny and not sheep it right?

Oh yeah. I think I was also misreading Scioness's point, but I have figured it out now

[ofrhz]

> prefers UD lynch over Scioness

> Mathdino votes Scioness

tfw

[ofrhz]

VOTE: Scioness Sajj

[ofrhz]

NSG last I heard from her

[ofrhz]

Will Scioness have time to claim if we wagon her

[ofrhz]

^shes v/la until Monday I think

[ofrhz]

if you weren’t here to claim, a wagon on you means we would have to lynch without a claim before the deadline

But since you will be here, I’m fine with my vote

[ofrhz]

1533 was mostly a case based on misrepping me. She even misrepresented what I did in Newbie 1859.

I will go at it point by point but I would need to sit down and take time to do that. Not to mention it’s very tiring and unfun to engage someone who accuses me of dodging her questions when I didn’t and even blames me for making her post in a way that’s difficult to follow. Like wtf

In 1534, math explicitly said he wants to wagon draynth or Scioness. How was my question not a reasonable follow up to that?

[ofrhz]

???
Are you telling me that you wanted to hammer yourself out of the game, as town, because you have done something anti-town?

Yes

And

it has nothing to do with the wagon on you and nothing to do with ruru selfvoting few pages ago I bet

. You've just made a joke response (lmao whoops vote me) because you have felt guilty for being bad townie and that bad townie also decided to redeem itself by another anti-town thing to do, that was already mentioned in the thread that it is indeed anti-town thing to do.

No it doesn't.

I think it is comparable, because last time when there was a wagon on you, you had to be talked into by one of your townreads to actually try to defend yourself, at L-1. Here you are prematurely offering to self-hammer that, now after explanation, has nothing to do with... anything? You just felt it was good idea to show us how much of a good townie you are that you'd take responsibility for those bad things you have done. But you aren't even sure if you actually did something wrong.

OK so the flow of conversation was:
1) I said something
2) TW said I should be PL'ed based on that thing I said
3) I ask why?
4) TW explains why
5) I realize I was really dumb (kind of hilariously dumb, ergo the joking that you find suspicious), and it makes sense to me why I should be PL'd
6) TW says maybe the thing I did doesn't deserve to be PL'd and wants to get other people's opinions first
7) I'm kinda confused at this point and leave it as an open-ended discussion for the rest of the game to decide
I honestly think you're coming at me from an angle of "wow they must be scum" and finding reasons to scumread me without thinking of the thought process behind what I posted. If you go back and read how it all went down, my thought process will make more sense.

Not to mention that the selfvote post in itself has a joking vibe to it but you are very seriously defending it.

Yes I was serious when I said I don't mind being PL'ed. That's pretty obvious given that I've been #1 vig shot (and counting) for a while now for mostly policy reasons, and I haven't once pushed back on that. So to scumread me for "pretending to seem so townie" doesn't even make any sense, because I am following through with what I said I would do (that is, let others PL me).

Not really at Scioness but to Math and others out there: I'm not sure why you guys think I'm bluffing about this. I've literally not done one thing to argue against people PL'ing me.

[ofrhz]

1. Does posting some lose thoughts on page 10 is alignment indicative to you? (it was not a readlist btw, I didn't have one at that time, I still really don't lol)
2. I think you have forgotten to update your read on this or just got your timeline wrong because I have explained to you what I think about Oxy being different but you never commented on it yet you are using it as an argument for your read in 441 and my post explaining Oxy was 500-something.
3. What nuance did you expect from my answers about Oxy being different than in our previous game?

1. Why wouldn't posts, loose thoughts included, on page 10 be alignment indicative? I also think it's entirely too convenient that you don't have a readlist yet, and your top scumread is likely someone who will get shot anyway.
2. In 1023, you quoted my post in 441 and asked for my thought process behind it. Of course I was going to tell you my thought process behind 441!!!! And my thought process in 441 didn't include anything you had written in post#500s because you hadn't written them yet...
My point was that you kinda just threw out that Oxy seems different without trying to figure out why.
3. I would have liked you to elaborate on whether or not he's acting differently because of his alignment

[ofrhz]

Taking a break, and I'll come back to responding to Scioness later if there's interest (Is it worth it to continue responding to Scioness? I lowkey feel like no one is going to read it, and she won't be here to respond)

[ofrhz]

I’m here and I’ll respond to the rest of Scioness’s posts later. Kinda feeling unwell at the moment

VOTE: Draynth

L-2

Pedit: I’m vanilla af

[ofrhz]

^ that brings Oxy to L-2
Draynth L-3

[ofrhz]

Last thoughts

@skitter-

1560, 1582 - you were scumreading Oxy for a whole slew of reasons and those reasons suddenly evaporated because you became more sure of scum!Math and didn’t think Math/Oxy was a thing??? I remember town!skitter in 1859 being extremely wary of association-based reads pre flip. It doesn’t seem like any of your original reasons for scumreading Oxy were ever addressed, but you dropped them as of 1623

The timing of your Oxy unvote and Math vote is also uncanny; you unvoted

as the Oxy wagon was reaching a critical point

(I believe sunshine and pin had just joined the wagon, not sure if there were others cuz I’m too lazy to check) in order to start an entirely new wagon less than 2 days until the deadline. This makes me think you didn’t want to be responsible for an Oxy wagon

——

I think if Oxy is town, skitter is slightly more likely to flip scum. She feels towny aside from what I just pointed out

UD is still scummy imo

Most of Scioness’s thoughts on the game are about me, which is awfully convenient, especially given that I had been the #1 vig shot for a while by the time she voted for me. I think time possibly could have been a constraining factor in this day phase but her case didn’t even make sense against me (although admittedly this last bit could be NAI)

(skitter, Scioness) could be a thing if you look at their posts in ISO

Draynth is still a better lynch than Oxy

——

HURT: ofrhz

[ofrhz]

intent to hammer

[ofrhz]

Actually I have to get to work

Can I swap votes with someone since I probably won’t be here closer to the deadline

[ofrhz]

Thanks pin!!!

VOTE: Mathdino

[ofrhz]

UNVOTE:

[ofrhz]

Ofrhz's vote on Math is actually pretty bad, especially given how he FOS'd me for voting there last night.

@ofrhz: why did you give intent/ swap votes with pin to be on that wagon?

Because I suck at reading and thought the deadline was <3 hours from when I voted.

[ofrhz]

I think UD is a better vig shot when I flip green

[ofrhz]

I also know nothing about Not Mafia though

But Scioness was much less scummy than UD

[ofrhz]

Fun game! I was more invested in this game even after I died than I am in some of my ongoing games

Thanks brass for modding!

[ofrhz]

Sheeping skitter on her AP theory - can we lynch in {UD, Draynth, possibly Scioness}

sorry Ofrhz

To be fair I didn’t think this was the actual scumteam at the time

And me acting scummy probably didn’t help your reads

[ofrhz]

ofrhz was the main reason I kept pushing UD, so his death wasn't in vain

Ayyy I was more than vindicated

It’d be fun to play with you all again. Maybe when another open game opens up