Newbie 2027 | Doggos | Town Win

[Frogsterking]

Hey guys! Not sure how I'm going to approach this game yet. VOTE: Noraa

[Frogsterking]

By the way guys I just wanted to say that I like computers.

[Frogsterking]

Noraa seems kind of townie, EchoVision doesn't really so far.

VOTE: EchoVision

[Frogsterking]

Noraa seems kind of townie, EchoVision doesn't really so far.

Why is EchoVision less town? What is this?

In my opinion if you have to lie about your choices/posts it's easier to make simple choices/posts over and over, like voting the same person, the way EchoVision did. If Noraa is lying about all of what she said it seems like a lot to make up on the spot.

Obviously I could be all wrong it just seems like pretty good reasoning considering it's page 2.

[Frogsterking]

I thought Echovision voting multiple times was a lil sus bc it seems like he's desperately trying to eliminate shelly. The reply shelly gave was a lil provocative soo idk what to feel there. I feel like it's too hard to be sure on anything rn tho cuz most people haven't said much.

This is kinda a scummy post IMO. Firstly, it is sheeping Sceptorus. Secondly, it's basically saying both Echo and I are suspect despite Echo voting for me? That's just contradictory. Thirdly, from the games I've read, "confused" is a often a thought from newbscum.

By the way why was my reply "provocative"?

I think this post is interesting because it's a different perspective than mine.

[Frogsterking]

I think this post is interesting because it's a different perspective than mine.

Frogster can you attach explanations with your posts so I don't have to ask about them every time?

Okay I can try. In this case I observed similar things as you and took different things away from them. I don't think it's AI, I think at this point in our MafiaScum careers we just choose to interpret the same actions differently.

UNVOTE: EchoVision

Things got a little intense all of a sudden on page 3 and I'm not sure what to make of Echo now, I wasn't a fan during the first couple of pages but I definitely agree with his vote switch off of shelly onto Sirius.

I'm not town reading Sirius or 72offsuit yet. I don't think we should be hammering until all the players have spoken at least once no matter how hard you scumread another player. You can always just hammer them after the new replacements come in.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: 72offsuit

Alright I still have my slight townie read on Noraa from all the way back to page 1 or 2 and in contrast I'm struggling to understand the motivations of a few players, namely EchoVision, 72offsuit, and sirius.

I feel like I understand PLUSjoyed and shelly's motivations, however, I'm reading them as null right now because I haven't seen them do anything that indicates to me their alignment is one way or the other.

Of the players mentioned above, if I had to pick right now, I would choose 72offsuit as being the mafia.

And because I promised shelly earlier I would attempt to explain my actions better, if I had to describe the reason I believe 72offsuit is the mafia, it's because during the chaos that happened around page 2 and 3 it seemed like Sirius and EchoVision were trying to find common ground and 72offsuit was more so taking advantage of a situation which already seemd chaotic, and he was not contributing anything that seemed very helpful at the time.

[Frogsterking]

And to clarify my reason for FoSing 72offsuit in 149 further, I believe he chose to step in during a chaotic situation that had potential to be very disadvantageous to town, a quickhammer on page 2 or 3 of a thread, during which other players were confused about what was going on and he seemed like he was not very confused.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: 72offsuit

Alright I still have my slight townie read on Noraa from all the way back to page 1 or 2 and in contrast I'm struggling to understand the motivations of a few players, namely EchoVision, 72offsuit, and sirius.

I feel like I understand PLUSjoyed and shelly's motivations, however, I'm reading them as null right now because I haven't seen them do anything that indicates to me their alignment is one way or the other.

Of the players mentioned above, if I had to pick right now, I would choose 72offsuit as being the mafia.

And because I promised shelly earlier I would attempt to explain my actions better, if I had to describe the reason I believe 72offsuit is the mafia, it's because during the chaos that happened around page 2 and 3 it seemed like Sirius and EchoVision were trying to find common ground and 72offsuit was more so taking advantage of a situation which already seemd chaotic, and he was not contributing anything that seemed very helpful at the time.

And to clarify my reason for FoSing 72offsuit in 149 further, I believe he chose to step in during a chaotic situation that had potential to be very disadvantageous to town, a quickhammer on page 2 or 3 of a thread, during which other players were confused about what was going on and he seemed like he was not very confused.

My FoS on 72offsuit which began with my vote in post 148 based on his behavior in a series of posts: 60, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74.

[Frogsterking]

i'm not gonna lie i'm not a fan of mary poppins i kinda hate it to be brutally honest

Me too

[Frogsterking]

Wow we have a completely different player at E-1 again already??

[Frogsterking]

What a bunch of little tigers.

[Frogsterking]

Okay first of all, Nora and Echo are town.

For shelly: It's because they both are pro town and are able to have very non-forced banter with each other while still emotionally reacting to the win condition. They also both seem inexperienced though in different ways which makes me townread them even harder for being able to do all of the above without any of the awkwardness associated with new scum. I think that for either Nora or Echo to flip scum they would have to be VERY natural liars IRL, like less than 2% of the population natural, or be lying very convincingly about their inexperience with the game (which would also indicate very natural liars.)

UNVOTE: 72offsuit

Second of all, I don't feel comfortable sitting on this BW, and I FoS both shelly and PLUS for potentially taking advantage of it, in addition to 72offsuit for the same reason on the earlier bandwagon. When I voted 72offsuit earlier, even though I FoS them, it was NOT my intention to have them at E-1 when I looked back the next day.

I'm not sure what to make of sirius or sceptorus yet.

The ninth slot is still inactive, I don't recall anything about them after look through the last few pages other than the ominous sounding name "Nikahang".

[Frogsterking]

Nikahang has been prodded

VOTE: ShellNyc

VOTE: ShellYc

Nikahang has been prodded,
shoulda done that ages ago but I derped

/\/\@f1@ = Mafia
9001\15 = goons
54y = say
vv|-|A+ = what
found one scum, now you can claim who your partner is to make this quicker.
VOTE: shellyc

(VOTE: Sceptorusyeah i know this wasnt the best execution for this joke but I WAS GETTING IMPATIENT DAMNIT)

My pure town energy will prove you wrong; not to worry. Good joke by the way.

I agree. He is part of town

I am voting

lurker confirmed. it's happened twice. Both times he was prodded and both times he jumped on the wagon to eliminate shelly(except his first vote was invalid). Jumping on the wagon isn't that sus tbh cuz I do understand the arguments on why shelly is sus but each time he's prodded, he immediately posts something which confirms he's lurking and that's pretty sus.

Lmao what a character. I don't think that Nikahang's strange behavior is really indicative of an alignment. I'm just going to nominate them to be our town ghost. There's a high chance they will be replaced out at some point in the game.

[Frogsterking]

In my opinion shelly isn't very readable as evidenced by the first game she played she won mostly on her own, and she did jump on that bandwagon which was taking off at the time in a lobby she knew could be impulsive and result in a hammer. This makes her a good candidate for me to vote so far, but I'm going to refrain from voting her for the above reason (I'm afraid if I check in tomorrow it will result in a hammer before we've used all the time allotted to us to scum hunt in D1.)

[Frogsterking]

Shallow meta diving shelly, her tone is more serious as scum, which i think reflects her play here, whereas as town she is more informal relaxed and jokey.

I think in this case this argument is as worthy of the depth of its dive.

UNVOTE: echo
VOTE: sirius
I'd like to put more pressure on sirius to see what they do

Okay this is helpful.

Ig that's just posting style then

What does this refer to?

Ig that's just posting style then

What does this refer to?

chains of posts. I haven't seen any so far besides 72offsuit's so I thought they were sus but it seems it's just posting style

Yeah I think we're often tempted to read certain posting styles in different directions. I think unusual styles of posting that are confusing or seem disorganized are very tempting to read as scum.

I was going to agree that 72offuit's post didn't prove what it concluded so it was confusing. But then I just wanted to check to see if I understood PlusJOYED's post correctly.

yeah that was regarding shellys post. The wording came across as a lil scummy but could be nothing.

Wouldn't be surprised at all if the scumduo is Shelly+Plus. Back and forth discussion just for the sake of it.

@72offsuit

I think this is interesting and I'd like to hear more about your theory on this if you still agree with it, and otherwise I'd like to hear why you changed your mind.

Subject to change, but for now:
slight town lean: froster (effort to scumhunt), echo (effort to scumhunt)
null: shelly, noraa, 720
sligh scum lean: sirius (for reasons stated earlier), scepterous (has made 1 post that basically said "I agree with everyone so far"), niaking (active lurking)

I understand frosters FoS on 720 but they could just been wanting to pressure shelly and not, ya know, hammer them. But hasn't been really pro town yet. Would prefer to exert pressure on Sirius, sceptorous, or niaking. Anyone wanna join? Though I'll be unvoting at E-1 unless they prove to act very scummy since I don't wanna hammer yet.

@Frog - your thoughts on Plus' readslist?

I'm assuming here you're referring to the quote above, 155.

I think it could be real or made up, at this point in the game it's probably real because most of us are town.

I wanted to point out that PLUS's description of Nikahang's behavior is inaccurate, and if you are playing in this game and self-identify as a newbie wanting to learn more, like Nora, I want you to read the link below, because active lurking is a very legitimate scum tell but NikaHang's behavior is not representative of what active lurking is.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ve_Lurking

Active lurking is a very different concept altogether than lurking. Active lurking is much more of a scum tell, though some players act this way even if they're town, particularly if they're extraverted and low conscientiousness.

Lurking is a much more complex concept that's ultimately more NAI and maybe easiest to understand if you study marketing. Here's a link to the mafiascum wiki article on lurking I'd suggest reading only if you would like to improve further on your reads:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lurking

I believe that lurking is NAI for many reasons, one is that I think some players will just play this way purely because they are introverted, especially if they are new.

There's a set of similar concepts I want to point out in a different wiki below. The concepts I wanted to point out are coasting, blending, deflecting, and tunneling. Coasting and blending are very similar concepts to active lurking, in fact, I suspect that they are all different ways of describing the same concept. Deflecting and tunneling are each different concepts that are also important to know because they are also legitimate scum tells.

https://mafiagg.fandom.com/wiki/Abbreviations

Something that each of these four concepts have in common is that if you're a liar these behaviors are slightly easier to fake than others.

Another concept I believe is important is that if you ever take an improv class, you might notice that the emotion of anger is easier to fake than others as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anger

I think when we run out of things to say it's easier to disguise our difficulty coming up with words to say by becoming very angry with something the other person has said. I believe passive-aggression or sarcasm is easy to fake as well both IRL and online because you can just repeat the words back with a question mark?

[Frogsterking]

Bro school already has my brain fried these articles are not helping lol. It's confusing imo but I think im getting the gist of it. So basically its the opposite of what I said before. Nikahang isn't sus but sceptorus is for making an excuse as to why he hasn't been posting. Ig sure but like that excuse is pretty real and valid imo.

Sort of but not exactly. Active lurkers post enough to avoid suspicion of lurking, but don't really say that much related to finding the mafia. If you're burnt out from school it's probably best to just take a mental note and reread only the first link in the morning when you feel fresh, it's not very long. It's a different behavior than what Nikahang or sceptorus are doing and different than what PLUS accused Nikahang of.

[Frogsterking]

Frogster that was undoubtedly a super helpful post, but personally I'd be careful saying "Deflecting and tunneling are each different concepts... also legitimate scum tells" because it's just as easy to do it as town,

especially

town that's newer to the game.

I'm a stubborn cunt so I tunnel people like crazy and I bite myself in the ass for it at the end of a game... I've been trying to get better with it slowly but it's still tough to get out of the habit, as trusting your gut becomes something incredibly beneficial the more you play. I haven't read the page, but if you want a TL;DR on tunneling, it's being so focused on one person that you don't really pay attention to anything around you and your only focus is getting that person's shit rocked. It's tunnel vision, hence the name.

I'd say deflection is just as often a scum tell in the newbie queue as it is a noob town tell. As you play with more experienced players, you realize that you don't have to prove anything about yourself, and other peoples opinions don't really matter unless you're scum or you're about to get your shit rocked and thrown into a rope. Deflection is just like it sounds; you're boutta get your shit rocked so you go "yo no way fuck this guy rock his shit instead" and you deflect your sus onto him/her/them so you stay alive.

I do agree with a lot of what you said, however I feel like it changes the more you play. In a newbie queue, there are some things that are slightly different and not quite developed yet for some players and I don't want them to think that everything's so black and white in mafia so I'll just leave them with this,

there are exceptions to every rule/theory/idea

i'd hope newer players know that but it can't hurt to say it louder for the people in the back

I agree with this 100%, and believe part of the reason why tunneling and deflecting are legitimate scum tells are because they're often behavior the scum has performed themselves or seen other town-aligned players perform in the past, and are easy to fake because of how two-dimensional the point of view is.

[Frogsterking]

Tbh I don't agree that shelly and plus are scum just bc my gut tells me that maybe one of them is scum but no way both of them r. Then again I dont think I have good reads anyways but I would also like to hear more from 72 about why. Since just the long convo between the two doesn't mean anything imo.

I agree with this post, I think it's statistically unlikely both of them are scum, and because of the unlikelihood of the accusation and because I'm curious about hearing more from 72offsuit I'd like him to elaborate more on this comment.

[Frogsterking]

PLUS if you were a sheriff or a dayvig who would u shoot right now?

[Frogsterking]

PLUS if you were a sheriff or a dayvig who would u shoot right now?

[Frogsterking]

Yeah and I definitely think 72 could be mafia I just want to give them a chance to speak, there are still multiple days left and we can change our mind about 72 later.

[Frogsterking]

Playing confused is an easy was to get a townpass for not producing content. Scum have no motivation to produce content as they do not want to scumhunt.

I agree with this post.

*easy way

Btw won't be posting as much because it's MARATHON WEEKEND

What does this mean?

[Frogsterking]

I'd like to hear more from Sceptorus.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah I was about to get annoyed 72o because you came off all strong in the start then disappeared but it makes sense to me that school started for you this week, I live in a college town so I've experienced that vicariously through them.

I also have good and bad news for you guys, and the same news is both, I'm town reading 72o, PLUS, and shelly in addition to Noraa and Echo from before. Here's how I picture this game, in no particular order:

Town Experienced: shelly, 720, PLUS, Echo

Town Inexperienced: Noraa, Sirius

Null:

Nikahang

,

Sceptorus

Null Inexperienced:

Sirius

I'm mostly interested in voting the player's names who are above me because as mafia it's easiest for them to hide in these roles and overall the three above have done the least for town.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah I was about to get annoyed 72o because you came off all strong in the start then disappeared but it makes sense to me that school started for you this week, I live in a college town so I've experienced that vicariously through them.

I also have good and bad news for you guys, and the same news is both, I'm town reading 72o, PLUS, and shelly in addition to Noraa and Echo from before. Here's how I picture this game, in no particular order:

Town Experienced: shelly, 720, PLUS, Echo

Town Inexperienced: Noraa

Null:

Nikahang

,

Sceptorus

,

Sirius

I'm mostly interested in voting the player's names who are above me because as mafia it's easiest for them to hide in these roles and overall the three above have done the least for town.

Here we go, I cleaned it up a little bit. VOTE: Nikahang

[Frogsterking]

Here I cleaned it up:
----
Town Experienced: shelly, 720, PLUS, Echo

Town Inexperienced: Noraa

Null:

Nikahang, Sceptorus, Sirius

----
I'm mostly interested in voting the player's names who in the null category because they've done the least for town and are easiest for the mafia to hide in. Nikahang and Sirius are also arguably being anti town.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah I was about to get annoyed 72o because you came off all strong in the start then disappeared but it makes sense to me that school started for you this week, I live in a college town so I've experienced that vicariously through them.

I also have good and bad news for you guys, and the same news is both, I'm town reading 72o, PLUS, and shelly in addition to Noraa and Echo from before. Here's how I picture this game, in no particular order:

Town Experienced: shelly, 720, PLUS, Echo

Town Inexperienced: Noraa, Sirius

Null:

Nikahang

,

Sceptorus

Null Inexperienced:

Sirius

I'm mostly interested in voting the player's names who are above me because as mafia it's easiest for them to hide in these roles and overall the three above have done the least for town.

no srs? too many trs imo almost everyone in ur townbook has done something sus and that's why I dont agree with ur read. also what is sirius : null or town?

Check the chart after I cleaned it up a little bit. I'm not really seeing any players being scummy, I'm seeing a lot of scum hunting actually. Did you read the article on active lurking?

[Frogsterking]

Here I cleaned it up:
----
Town Experienced: shelly, 720, PLUS, Echo

Town Inexperienced: Noraa

Null:

Nikahang, Sceptorus, Sirius

----
I'm mostly interested in voting the player's names who in the null category because they've done the least for town and are easiest for the mafia to hide in. Nikahang and Sirius are also arguably being anti town.

I mentioned this before, but sirius is a Se slot, which makes it all the more odd to me.

I wouldn't say I'm handing out town passes. Sometimes the scum are able to successfully blend in with the town, and recognizing when they're doing that successfully is critical to scum hunting. I think that either that's what's going on or the opposite; the scum are not trying and are blending in with the lurkers. I'm willing to give the townie players the benefit of the doubt until I have reason to think otherwise.

[Frogsterking]

I remember seeing sirius's name pop up before in the newbie lobby. I'm not sure if he's completed any games though.

[Frogsterking]

I still think voting between sirius, Nika, and sceptorus is the right decision.

[Frogsterking]

I'm still not reading PLUS as scum.

[Frogsterking]

Or shelly.

[Frogsterking]

A town pr verifying me and damning shelly, will save us from eliming a townie here, which is the current trajectory. And if a pr counterclaims me and sides with shelly, when I flip green the game will be solved. Or vice versa.

This is all kinds of wrong.

[Frogsterking]

Okay I'm going to have to reread a bunch of this when I get back.

PLUS is not a VT lying. They are scum or TFN.

[Frogsterking]

Okay I realized we have counter claims now and between PLUS and shelly PLUS definitely has the worst claim.

[Frogsterking]

I'm going to grab some food I'll be back soon.

[Frogsterking]

I'm actually tempted to hammer PLUS right now for having by far a worse claim + attempting to fish out the 2nd pr.

[Frogsterking]

And fear that, based on how some other play has gone in this game, the 2nd pr might actually out.

[Frogsterking]

Fuck.
I am the town friendly neighbor.

dude next game don't claim TFN as scum

I'm YOUR TOWN DOCTOR EVERYONE

no this isn't on him, this is on you
why would you request a claim from someone that you can't hammer
why would you request a claim from someone that I TOLD EVERYONE NOT TO HAMMER
why would you request a claim from someone when there's TWO SLOTS BEING REPLACED
WHY

on top of that;
why would you counterclaim as such an important PR on DAY 1 when there's so many things that tell you not to
i just don't understand

why wouldn't you just wait for n1 and when nobody says "i received a PM saying that he was town" then we rock that shit
why would you claim doc
even if it's false
why

UNVOTE:
i fully intend to vote for shelly after this shit show went down

IDK I think CC'ing as Doctor to get a 100% scum kill is pretty worth it. Doctor is worth more than a townie, but on average Doctor doesn't usually get to save anyone. Doctor can turn the game with their night action, but using your role (by way of counterclaim) to 100% prove scum is better than the usual ceiling you get out of the night role (when you save someone you prove that they're town and give town an extra day of discussion). Saving two people is probably better than getting one scum (two town confirms plus one extra town kill), but I'd say Doctors don't generally get to do that on average. If I were in shelly's position, I'd do the same.

+1.

No reason to claim there as scum!shelly, maybe if PLUS had been an investigative role like the cop or a tracker it would have made sense for the scum to sac there, but saccing just to get a TFN lynched whom you could just nightkill instead and reach day 2 with both scum alive and one PR down for town is clearly a much better option for scum.

I didn't check how likely it was that shelly had to claim in order to not get lynched herself, though.

I could easily picture town!shelly getting excited about tunneling the mafia D1 as a pr and counterclaiming there. I feel like scum!shelly would be more interested in staying alive than in getting the TFN mislynched.

[Frogsterking]

I went to the last votecount and saw that PlusJoy is at E-2. Everyone is saying "don't hammer", but I should be able to safely vote and put him at E-1, right?

I might hammer him then.

[Frogsterking]

Unless you don't want me to.

[Frogsterking]

The sole function of TFN is to be provably town. If you're telling the truth, then this is just action economy: eliming you is using that night action on every player in the game at once

((Dear god this is a joke please read it as such))

Yeah there is a serious point in here that even if we're wrong about PLUS we did still get value out of the TFN role since it caused shelly to claim.

[Frogsterking]

I'm actually leaning more towards sirius or froster. Froster feels kinda fake, following what people have been saying without really solving and Sirius is sirius. I'm null on 72o now atm

I could

maybe

get behind a sirius elim

if

we can agree to do it in a coordinated way.

Town agrees to nominate one person to receive TFN towny message. Shelly agrees to protect that person.

If towny nominee or Plus dies, shelly is lying and we kill.

If shelly dies, Plus is lying and we kill.

If something else happens, then we have the nominee say if they got the message or not.

If they did, shelly is lying or the nominee is lying. We kill shelly, and if shelly isn't scum then we're at worst 3 vs. 2 with a confirmed scum team of nominee + Plus and town wins the game. If shelly is scum, we're at worst at 4 vs. 1 with no confirmation.

If they didn't get message, then we kill plus and we're at worst at 4 vs. 1.

If nobody dies night 1, then scum is doubleplusstupid and PlusJOYED is lying.

That's a... decent set of outcomes. Killing scum that isn't plus on day one definitely wins the game for town.

I feel like this is more of a "bird in the hand" type of scenario, though. If we kill Plus now then we're at worst going to be at 4 vs. 1, which is more or less the same worst-case outcome we get by going with the above convoluted scheme that has so many more moving parts and points of failure. I feel like town is throwing by not limming plus here.

LMAO. This is potentially a very strong plan. If we nominate the wrong player on accident and they lie, then after we mis lynch shelly it's 5-way lylo and the scum team is confirmed.

[Frogsterking]

I think the fact that town even has this option available means the mafia definitely made a mistake about their pr claim.

[Frogsterking]

I'm going to reevaluate the situation leading up to the claims from a scum!shelly perspective who believes if she does not counterclaim, she will be lynched instead.

[Frogsterking]

I'm actually leaning more towards sirius or froster. Froster feels kinda fake, following what people have been saying without really solving and Sirius is sirius. I'm null on 72o now atm

I could

maybe

get behind a sirius elim

if

we can agree to do it in a coordinated way.

Town agrees to nominate one person to receive TFN towny message. Shelly agrees to protect that person.

If towny nominee or Plus dies, shelly is lying and we kill.

If shelly dies, Plus is lying and we kill.

If something else happens, then we have the nominee say if they got the message or not.

If they did, shelly is lying or the nominee is lying. We kill shelly, and if shelly isn't scum then we're at worst 3 vs. 2 with a confirmed scum team of nominee + Plus and town wins the game. If shelly is scum, we're at worst at 4 vs. 1 with no confirmation.

If they didn't get message, then we kill plus and we're at worst at 4 vs. 1.

If nobody dies night 1, then scum is doubleplusstupid and PlusJOYED is lying.

That's a... decent set of outcomes. Killing scum that isn't plus on day one definitely wins the game for town.

I feel like this is more of a "bird in the hand" type of scenario, though. If we kill Plus now then we're at worst going to be at 4 vs. 1, which is more or less the same worst-case outcome we get by going with the above convoluted scheme that has so many more moving parts and points of failure. I feel like town is throwing by not limming plus here.

LMAO. This is potentially a very strong plan. If we nominate the wrong player on accident and they lie, then after we mis lynch shelly it's 5-way lylo and the scum team is confirmed.

The prob is now everyone in this game knows about this plan and all the little tricks and stuff u put in so it will no longer work....

Which part of it won't work?

[Frogsterking]

I'm actually leaning more towards sirius or froster. Froster feels kinda fake, following what people have been saying without really solving and Sirius is sirius. I'm null on 72o now atm

I could

maybe

get behind a sirius elim

if

we can agree to do it in a coordinated way.

Town agrees to nominate one person to receive TFN towny message. Shelly agrees to protect that person.

If towny nominee or Plus dies, shelly is lying and we kill.

If shelly dies, Plus is lying and we kill.

If something else happens, then we have the nominee say if they got the message or not.

If they did, shelly is lying or the nominee is lying. We kill shelly, and if shelly isn't scum then we're at worst 3 vs. 2 with a confirmed scum team of nominee + Plus and town wins the game. If shelly is scum, we're at worst at 4 vs. 1 with no confirmation.

If they didn't get message, then we kill plus and we're at worst at 4 vs. 1.

If nobody dies night 1, then scum is doubleplusstupid and PlusJOYED is lying.

That's a... decent set of outcomes. Killing scum that isn't plus on day one definitely wins the game for town.

I feel like this is more of a "bird in the hand" type of scenario, though. If we kill Plus now then we're at worst going to be at 4 vs. 1, which is more or less the same worst-case outcome we get by going with the above convoluted scheme that has so many more moving parts and points of failure. I feel like town is throwing by not limming plus here.

LMAO. This is potentially a very strong plan. If we nominate the wrong player on accident and they lie, then after we mis lynch shelly it's 5-way lylo and the scum team is confirmed.

The prob is now everyone in this game knows about this plan and all the little tricks and stuff u put in so it will no longer work....

Which part of it won't work?

I'm actually leaning more towards sirius or froster. Froster feels kinda fake, following what people have been saying without really solving and Sirius is sirius. I'm null on 72o now atm

I could

maybe

get behind a sirius elim

if

we can agree to do it in a coordinated way.

Town agrees to nominate one person to receive TFN towny message. Shelly agrees to protect that person.

If towny nominee or Plus dies, shelly is lying and we kill.

If shelly dies, Plus is lying and we kill.

If something else happens, then we have the nominee say if they got the message or not.

If they did, shelly is lying or the nominee is lying. We kill shelly, and if shelly isn't scum then we're at worst 3 vs. 2 with a confirmed scum team of nominee + Plus and town wins the game. If shelly is scum, we're at worst at 4 vs. 1 with no confirmation.

If they didn't get message, then we kill plus and we're at worst at 4 vs. 1.

If nobody dies night 1, then scum is doubleplusstupid and PlusJOYED is lying.

That's a... decent set of outcomes. Killing scum that isn't plus on day one definitely wins the game for town.

I feel like this is more of a "bird in the hand" type of scenario, though. If we kill Plus now then we're at worst going to be at 4 vs. 1, which is more or less the same worst-case outcome we get by going with the above convoluted scheme that has so many more moving parts and points of failure. I feel like town is throwing by not limming plus here.

LMAO. This is potentially a very strong plan. If we nominate the wrong player on accident and they lie, then after we mis lynch shelly it's 5-way lylo and the scum team is confirmed.

The prob is now everyone in this game knows about this plan and all the little tricks and stuff u put in so it will no longer work....

Which part of it won't work?

Theres too many if's and that gives the mafia a lot of chances to just confuse us by doing strange things

I'm actually leaning more towards sirius or froster. Froster feels kinda fake, following what people have been saying without really solving and Sirius is sirius. I'm null on 72o now atm

I could

maybe

get behind a sirius elim

if

we can agree to do it in a coordinated way.

Town agrees to nominate one person to receive TFN towny message. Shelly agrees to protect that person.

If towny nominee or Plus dies, shelly is lying and we kill.

If shelly dies, Plus is lying and we kill.

If something else happens, then we have the nominee say if they got the message or not.

If they did, shelly is lying or the nominee is lying. We kill shelly, and if shelly isn't scum then we're at worst 3 vs. 2 with a confirmed scum team of nominee + Plus and town wins the game. If shelly is scum, we're at worst at 4 vs. 1 with no confirmation.

If they didn't get message, then we kill plus and we're at worst at 4 vs. 1.

If nobody dies night 1, then scum is doubleplusstupid and PlusJOYED is lying.

That's a... decent set of outcomes. Killing scum that isn't plus on day one definitely wins the game for town.

I feel like this is more of a "bird in the hand" type of scenario, though. If we kill Plus now then we're at worst going to be at 4 vs. 1, which is more or less the same worst-case outcome we get by going with the above convoluted scheme that has so many more moving parts and points of failure. I feel like town is throwing by not limming plus here.

LMAO. This is potentially a very strong plan. If we nominate the wrong player on accident and they lie, then after we mis lynch shelly it's 5-way lylo and the scum team is confirmed.

The prob is now everyone in this game knows about this plan and all the little tricks and stuff u put in so it will no longer work....

The only way this plan doesn't work is misexecution on the town's part: I already accounted for all the possible night actions scum could take.

The thing is, giving town's record this game, I think misexecution of the plan is likely enough that we shouldn't jump on it

Okay, I thought of one: PLUS is scum, shelly is the doctor, we are in setup A1, scum role block shelly and kill our nomination target.

[Frogsterking]

I just describe a situation in which town loses from this plan and then PLUS immediately says "I like this plan"

[Frogsterking]

In hindsight shelly's ISO looked pretty good, the only part I disagreed with was when she ruled out PLUS + sirius.

[Frogsterking]

Noraa I know you townread both shelly and PLUS before the claims, as did I, however, logically we have confirmation now that one of them is gamethrowing or one of them is lying, and I don't believe that either one is game throwing.

Noraa let's say PLUS is scum here for sure and shelly is town, who do you think PLUS partner is if you had to pick right now?

[Frogsterking]

Actually, in hindsight, don't answer that Noraa lol.

[Frogsterking]

I think we should kill PLUS immediately, everything we are saying at this point is information for the scum team to decide on their night kill.

[Frogsterking]

I'm also not interested in hearing from the replacement slot for this same reason. I'll townread anyone who helps me quickhammer PLUS.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: PLUS

[Frogsterking]

Noraa I know you townread both shelly and PLUS before the claims, as did I, however, logically we have confirmation now that one of them is gamethrowing or one of them is lying, and I don't believe that either one is game throwing.

Noraa let's say PLUS is scum here for sure and shelly is town, who do you think PLUS partner is if you had to pick right now?

maybe both are lying? Idk I still feel like all their posts give off townie vibes. My gut tells me they are town and I wish to believe it til the end, at least for my first game. Perhaps this will be a big lesson for me and teach me new things in preparation of the second but rn I want to stick to what I believed and go thru with it. If my read was absolute garbage, well fuck it. no one can say anything anyways since its my first game so lmao imma just continue thru with my reads.

I think this is a cool take. Like if they had already played so many games together they were able to do some kind of role swap with each other.

[Frogsterking]

I'm also not interested in hearing from the replacement slot for this same reason. I'll townread anyone who helps me quickhammer PLUS.

I won't be taking this free town pass bc I believe in plus and his pure townie energy(I stole this line from someone, can't remember who, but I think I heard it a while ago)

Well Echo's main concern is getting fear killed N1. So if he comes back and says a bunch of pro-town stuff that might make the mafia decide to kill him because he's the most townie. Especially if he inadvertently says something which could indicate that he's the pr.

If you quickhammer PLUS now that would encourage mafia to keep Echo alive because they know he will be angry at us.

So quickhammering is arguably the best choice both because you're concerned about Echo's well-being (it gives the mafia a reason to keep him alive) and because it helps the town because it gives the mafia less time to look for the pr.

And the person you borrowed that line from is shelly.

[Frogsterking]

I'm also not interested in hearing from the replacement slot for this same reason. I'll townread anyone who helps me quickhammer PLUS.

I won't be taking this free town pass bc I believe in plus and his pure townie energy(I stole this line from someone, can't remember who, but I think I heard it a while ago)

Yeah that townpass is some bullshit

I like the plan that sounds fun. I prefer eliming shellyc today since from my perspective she's either a misplaying scum or a severely misplaying VT claiming a pr role. Knowing shelly, I think her plan was that she was scum, and she'll say her plan was that she was confident that I was maf and to fake claim doc as VT so she would die n1 and that the maf kept her alive but she's just a regretful. If the town promises me they'll elim her no matter what I'm fine with being elimed rn.

PLUS is also attempting to keep the conversation going here so she can look for the other PR.

[Frogsterking]

Final readlist:
TR: Noraa, echo, Sirius, both replacements
100 % scum: Shellyc
SR: 72o (tunneling me, suggested they should kill me even after I claimed but before shellyc counterclaimed, which makes no fucking sense. Also leaps of logic I think for SR me and not listening otherwise), froster (not really solving, lots of fluff, defensive/neutral around shellyc. I expect them to bus hard shelly tomorrow to gain towncred. Wants to end discussion which helps scum)

I'm surprised that you felt I had this much of an impact on your lynch. I guess I'll take it a compliment.

[Frogsterking]

Dang that's harsh I tr shelly, plus, and echo and ur telling me that voting plus might save echo.

Yes. Otherwise the mafia may choose to murder Echo for being townread and directing the other players. If they know he will be mad on D2 that we hammered then they may decide to leave him alive to create conflict.

[Frogsterking]

I can't believe shelly would sac in that situation.

[Frogsterking]

...I'm a noobie.

eh I still like plus more :3 im not happy with how you hammered someone the day you replaced in. in fact I would almost say that's a scumtell

what? I hammered because one of them is scum, they each role claimed contradictory roles. If Plus flipped town (which he did), we'll just lim Shelly tomorrow. This is fine/good.

The TFN isn't a role that really helps once you get outed, he was just gonna get nightkilled. Doctor is more useful to keep around if Shelly were town (which she's not )

I replaced in today, but I read the whole thread and caught up... do I have to wait a certain amount of hours before I'm allowed to vote?

wait its confirmed he was town? where? what?

It's unofficially confirmed because PLUS said he really was the TFN after he'd already been hammered, so he could be bitter and still be lying, but I don't think most people would do that.

[Frogsterking]

sac?

She sacrificed herself to kill the TFN. I'm not sure if it was a good choice.

[Frogsterking]

I can't believe shelly would sac in that situation.

I agree. Almost feels like a vendetta against me or some shit cause it doesn't make sense.

I was wondering about this as well. I think it means that her partner is someone that is universally town read, so she felt content to take out one pr and let them solo win.

[Frogsterking]

She also was maybe hoping to get both PRs outted D1.

[Frogsterking]

oh phew ok so plus isn't dead

it's still day you fucks

now the thing is...

did plus know that?

LOL. I need to stop drinking.

[Frogsterking]

plus do you have any scum games I could reread real quick?

[Frogsterking]

No I've never rolled scum in a mafia game.

ah so u really do have pure townie energy

lol

[Frogsterking]

I've seen scum fake reactions like that before. I also don't understand the play from shelly's point of view.

[Frogsterking]

No I've never rolled scum in a mafia game.

ah so u really do have pure townie energy

lol

I've seen scum fake reactions like that before. I also don't understand the play from shelly's point of view.

VOTE: shelly

That being said, some things never change.

[Frogsterking]

now the thing is...

did plus know that?

GODDAMNIT I WAS BOUT TO SAY THIS PROVES PLUS IS INNOCENT THEN A WILD JELLYFISH RUINED THE MOMENT >:(

I am not enjoying your holier-than-thou communication style where you are judging me for hammering when you haven't cast a single vote yourself, apparently? I am not a fan.

Pedit: how am I the better vote than Shelly right here?

"haven't cast a single vote"
have you not read thru the whole thing? I took my vote off of 72 and didn't choose shelly or plus. I will not vote for shelly or plus bc I TR them

sorry: my brain read this as you saying that you hadn't voted, that was my bad:

me? no I never voted plus ... ever

I did put thought into it. Either JOY or Shelly is scum. They have conflicting claims. One of them has to be scum. I'm not sheeping the town's opinion. I read through the whole thread, am I not allowed to have opinions?

I picked between them who I believed more. I believed Shelly more. I'm confused by your FoS.

I was going to vote for one of them. One of them is a PR and one of them is scum. I am okay if we lose a power role to lim a scum. That isn't scum-indicative.

I'm getting a little defensive and I don't need to be, because my actions speak for themselves.

Noraa, you are reminding me of ShellyC, and not in a good way.

I believe part of the conflict here is that Noraa thinks both PLUS and shelly are town, hence her read on you makes sense from that perspective.

[Frogsterking]

i’m actually fine with not killing either of shelly or plus today

plus can prove himself to someone else MAYBE
if he doesn’t then we kill him
if he does we kill shelly

but idk how we’re gonna pick someone and keep them alive

Yes, if plus is scum and we're in A1 then mafia will have a roleblocker, so they will be able to block shelly and kill the nominee. Or, block plus, so the nominee doesn't get confirmation.

One benefit of lynching outside of plus/shelly is that we imght be able to hit the scum roleblocker/role fisher, assuming shelly would counterclaim as the goon instead of the fisher, which is maybe an assumption we can't make.

[Frogsterking]

i’m actually fine with not killing either of shelly or plus today

plus can prove himself to someone else MAYBE
if he doesn’t then we kill him
if he does we kill shelly

but idk how we’re gonna pick someone and keep them alive

Yes, if plus is scum and we're in A1 then mafia will have a roleblocker, so they will be able to block shelly and kill the nominee. Or, block plus, so the nominee doesn't get confirmation.

One benefit of lynching outside of plus/shelly is that we imght be able to hit the scum roleblocker/role fisher, assuming shelly would counterclaim as the goon instead of the fisher, which is maybe an assumption we can't make.

PLUS actually can't get blocked, there's no setup with a roleblocker and a TFN.

[Frogsterking]

Fine then if I am forced to choose I will choose shelly because I don't think she'd cc doctor as scum. It makes no sense and there are no benefits on her end.

That's what I was thinking, however, do you believe that plus reaction was fake? It looks real to me.

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: shelly

I'm going to give myself time to recover from my hangover and the things that happened in this game over the last 24 hours.

The deadline is in one day or so?

I'm going to think about whether lynching inside or outside of the ccs is mechanically superior, possible motivations for shelly to fake claim, and the chances plus was faking the reaction to being hammered.

I'm leaning toward voting shelly now because of plus's reaction to being hammered.

[Frogsterking]

Echo what was it you didn't like about the Nikahang replacement?

[Frogsterking]

Listen now. Look at my aforementioned wall. Look at the survivalist mindset. They clearly want to survive; which is furthering the scum wincon

Look at how they sit on the fence, look at how they aren't even trying to solve. Look at how they AtE'd Noraa, look at how they were image consious.

If they claimed anything else I would still lim them. But most importantly, they aren't the TFN because I AM YOUR DOCTOR.

Imagine a world with town!plus and scum!shelly. Scum!me just got a TR from 72offsuit and was at what, E-3. PlusJoy's claim was wack as heck and they would probs still get elimed. Why not just get plusjoy d1 and leaving both scum up into d2?

PlusJoy has played quite well, manipulating you all with AtE at E-0. Look at how they fish for PRs. Look at how they try to fish for the tracker.

I had no need to claim as scum. I claimed to get rid of plusjoy. Because they fakeclaimed. Lim them today and we get a free red. Lim me today and watch me flip

Town Doctor.

Either way I've proven them as scum.

The stats guy in me has to disagree with you shelly, you haven't proven anything, you've only provided evidence for your point of view.

[Frogsterking]

I passed out from my hangover earlier.

Some thoughts:

Scum know what column of game we're in. Scum shouldn't want to fake-claim a role that they know is in the game because of exactly this situation: they get counter-claimed and then one for one'd. With that in mind, TFN with no townies dead at night is a very bad fakeclaim. Scum knows which which column we're in. If we're in Column A or Column C, then there's only a one-in-three chance that you can make that claim without someone being able to counterclaim you. In Column A, the Tracker and the Jailkeeper in A2 can both be in the same game as the TFN. The Jailkeeper and the VT in B2 can also both be in the same game as a TFN. Otherwise, the town has at least one PR that can counterclaim you. If you're in Column B, it's actually impossible to avoid a counterclaim—either there's a Doctor (who can't be in the same game as a TFN) or there's a TFN (who can counter).

As dumb as the TFN fakeclaim is, it still makes

no

sense in comparison to a Doctor fake'd counterclaim. The

best realistic case

is that you trade in some scum 1-for-1. This is just really weird no matter who's scum here. (Beyond that, when no people have died, C1 is the only world in which scum can get away with a Doctor fakeclaim without eventually getting 1-for-1'd.)

I'm still leaning on Plus being scum. If shelly is scum, she's literally gone and thrown the game for her scum-mate. Creating this 1-for-1-at-worst scenario is pro-town, and so I choose to believe that shelly being town is most likely. Beyond that, we can't forget that Plus was fishing for PRs when it looked pretty certain he was going down. Shelly did too for some reason?? I'm not sure how to feel about it, but she only did it once while Plus' efforts were sustained. And I'm kind of done joking around here, I'm going to drop my vote of Plus before I go to bed tonight, this mess is getting ridiculous.

VOTE: PlusJOYED

Sirius I can't read you properly at all. My clowndar is reading 100% on you, and that's most of what I've got. I'd say it's like you contribute your scumreads by dartboard, but it's worse—you take votes that seems almost universally attempts at starting bandwagons. Everyone votes shelly early? Vote shelly. People start switching to Plus and you switch to Plus. Now things are heating up between which one to kill, and you spontaneously switch to the member which is neither of them who is considered sus by the most people. I agree that Noraa is fishy as fuck, but your play is frustrating.

We've got a scum kill, if not today then tomorrow.

Bird in the hand.

Don't go running off into the bushes, people.

I think this is very solid reasoning. I've seen scum successfully AtE in situations like plus did there though the mechanics of the site I played on were different.

I think plus's comments at e-0 definitely imply some kind of intent, as though she was aware the game was not over, regardless of AI. Otherwise I don't believe it makes sense for her to have continued posting in the way that she had. She did not emotionally react to the hammer in my opinion, though I'll need to reread it. It seems like town!plus in that situation might have pointed out that she was not dead. I think that plus attempting to theater in that situation is not entirely AI either even if we could prove it was theater. I would be hammering plus because it makes more sense not because she theatered in that situation.

It does seem more likely that plus would be attempting to theater us than shelly would be making this truly bizarre play as scum. I did come up with a few motivations for shelly's play as scum I'll post here after I reread.

[Frogsterking]

Tbh it seems it doesn't really matter what either of u say at this point. town seems to think killing one pr and one scum(if their guess on this is right) is a good choice and totally worth it. I suggested killing off sirius who doesn't give us any useful opinions and wait until one of you can prove you are real that way we risk killing the real pr but that idea wasn't liked soooo that's that

After reading his most recent batch of posts I definitely saw the benefits of your point of view, Nora.

[Frogsterking]

I also think I'll be referring to sirius as Growlithe.

[Frogsterking]

I think plus's comments at e-0 definitely imply some kind of intent, as though she was aware the game was not over, regardless of AI. Otherwise I don't believe it makes sense for her to have continued posting in the way that she had. She did not emotionally react to the hammer in my opinion, though I'll need to reread it. It seems like town!plus in that situation might have pointed out that she was not dead. I think that plus attempting to theater in that situation is not entirely AI either even if we could prove it was theater. I would be hammering plus because it makes more sense not because she theatered in that situation.

this is just fence-sitting: "imply intent" "did not emotionally react" but "not entirely AI"

I've said basically all I've had to day about the me/shelly situation
at this point. There are 2 posts that I'd like to bring attention to that were really scummy but I think flew under most peoples radar in the heat of the moment that I think are worth looking at again.

First:

UNVOTE: PlusJOYED

I dont buy the claim.

1. Total scumbucket, so i think its extremely likely just scum role fishing and trying to avert their lynch.

2. No PR is that ready to out themselves at the drop if a hat, especially not when:
A) a player requested for no hammers
B) we have replacements incoming
C) request for a claim came from their scumread
D) request came from a player who was already on their wagon And unable to actually hammer

Unvoting until replacements in.

This and the post after, despite my imperfect play here (I was feeling really pressured as nearly every player had expressed a SR on me), from a logical perspective, eliming me here before shelly counter claimed makes 0 fucking sense considering TFN is a provable role. They unvoted, but didn't even flinch or reconsider their SR on me at all, and a tunnel like that (an incorrect one at that) does not befit a townie SE reaction. This is very odd to me and pretty scummy.

Secondly ...

I'm also not interested in hearing from the replacement slot for this same reason. I'll townread anyone who helps me quickhammer PLUS.

This, for obvious reasons, is a super scummy mindset. Townpasses are not just thrown out to people who do what you want, and limiting discussion here sounds like a bad idea. It's either a townie misplay (possible) or a big scumslip (also possible).

Both of the ccs believe I will hammer them and are accusing me of being scummy; this clears me as town right??

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: PlusJOYED

I dont buy the claim.

1. Total scumbucket, so i think its extremely likely just scum role fishing and trying to avert their lynch.

2. No PR is that ready to out themselves at the drop if a hat, especially not when:
A) a player requested for no hammers
B) we have replacements incoming
C) request for a claim came from their scumread
D) request came from a player who was already on their wagon And unable to actually hammer

Unvoting until replacements in.

Fuck.
I am the town friendly neighbor.

dude next game don't claim TFN as scum

I'm YOUR TOWN DOCTOR EVERYONE

no this isn't on him, this is on you
why would you request a claim from someone that you can't hammer
why would you request a claim from someone that I TOLD EVERYONE NOT TO HAMMER
why would you request a claim from someone when there's TWO SLOTS BEING REPLACED
WHY

on top of that;
why would you counterclaim as such an important PR on DAY 1 when there's so many things that tell you not to
i just don't understand

why wouldn't you just wait for n1 and when nobody says "i received a PM saying that he was town" then we rock that shit
why would you claim doc
even if it's false
why

UNVOTE:
i fully intend to vote for shelly after this shit show went down

[Frogsterking]

Wait don't carry on, I'm a mess it was still hammer

Edit: Seriously, just keep posting until I can get my brain working. Just woke up

If it helps, both 72o and echo had previously unvoted.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah seriously I just realized that I've posted 81 times in this thread already and am still something of a lurker compared to others.

[Frogsterking]

I think I had a sr on redados long before u did @shelly
I could've remembered wrong but that's how I remembered it

Order of operations:
1) Shelly goes to sleep
2) I replace in
3) I talk
4) You scumread me
5) Shelly wakes up
6) You brag to Shelly about scumreading me before she did

lol

I expressed an SR on Sceptorus early on let me find it

To be fair, I believe

I

was the first to express an SR on Sceptorus.

[Frogsterking]

I read through plus's scum meta game from a different site he posted in 860. The main thing I took away was that there was a lot of reliance on AtE from that meta in general and that overall the quality of play was not that low.

Considering plus said they have a degree in computer science with a minor in math (1120) and when they were in highschool they played on that site that relied a lot on AtE I'm thinking it's possible they kept track of the votes and were just giving theater after the e-0.

VOTE: plusJOY

shelly does shelly things as scum and town, so far that doesn't include saccing herself for the pr, I guess we'll have to see though.

[Frogsterking]

Is that the hammer, or e-1, or what?

[Frogsterking]

I read through plus's scum meta game from a different site he posted in 860. The main thing I took away was that there was a lot of reliance on AtE from that meta in general and that overall the quality of play was not that low.

Considering plus said they have a degree in computer science with a minor in math (1120) and when they were in highschool they played on that site that relied a lot on AtE I'm thinking it's possible they kept track of the votes and were just giving theater after the e-0.

VOTE: plusJOY

shelly does shelly things as scum and town, so far that doesn't include saccing herself for the pr, I guess we'll have to see though.

you read thru all those pages?! dude that was like 72 pages or something.... I only read like 4 pages and couldn't even find plus either cuz I was skimming too fast or he didn't talk until later

I think it was 157 pages actually. It was difficult to find him because he was lurking and there were a lot of players in that game.

[Frogsterking]

I also believe that plus was trying to AtE me specifically earlier when he said stuff like "oh i was going to TFN Frogster but now im not so sure.." implying he knew I was town and trying to swing my vote.

[Frogsterking]

I take it you tr me then Echo? Like from your pov you're assuming I'm town and incorrectly voting on plus.

[Frogsterking]

I actually thought about this game quite a bit during the night. I came to the conclusion that Mundivore is scum, and if not him then 72offsuit. I'm actually pleased with the night results as well, even though Echo died who was one of my strongest town reads, he was also my read for the PR, so the fact he flipped VT is a bit of silver lining for me. I think his death is also incriminating for Mundi, who Echo pushed yesterday.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Mundivore

Here's to solidifying my FoS with a vote.

[Frogsterking]

Also Nora due to your absurdly high activity levels and what I perceive as increasing accuracy in your reads I no longer consider you a newbie.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Mundivore

Here's to solidifying my FoS with a vote.

Why not vote shelly? I reread stuff over the night and its like 100% confirmed that she's scum

I agree, I spent the night looking for her partner.

[Frogsterking]

VC DAY 1 FINAL

shellyc (3)

- PlusJOYED, Redados, EchoVision

PlusJOYED (5)

- shellyc, Mundivore, 72offsuit, Frogsterking, Noraa

Noraa (1)

- Sirius9121

Redados (1)

- Noraa

With 9 unfortunate souls alive, you need 5 votes to eliminate.

PlusJOYED has been eliminated!

Who was voting for Shelly? It was PlusJOYED, Redados, and EchoVision. I'm feeling like all those guys are town. In fact I am 100% without a doubt sure.

Who was not voting for Shelly? It was Mundivore, Shelly, 72offsuit, Frogsterking,

Noraa, and Sirius9121.

I feel like the scum lies in this set of players.

We can pack it up guys, I did it! I solved the game! I love voting analysis. Very useful.

Nora and Sirius were textbook town in yesterday's BW vs BW as far as theory is concerned.

[Frogsterking]

Frogster flexing on me with his complex mafia vocab is making me sad

lol

[Frogsterking]

Okay give me one second you two.

[Frogsterking]

There were four sources I used for BW vs BW which is a part of a method for scum hunting called "Vote Count Analysis". The links below may not all work and might have to be copy + pasted into the web browser :

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... unting#VCA
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _VCA_Guide
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=VCA

Also a discussion topic on the forums here:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=70951

If you can't get these links to work (taking you to separate pages each) I'll do some more fanangling.

99% of my experience playing this game comes from a single website, EpicMafia (also the same website shelly is from) which is a live-chat format of this game, where vote count analysis is not commonly applied to this level of depth because behavioral scum tells are more reliable, so I'm learning about this topic as well.

The gist of it is that Nora's confusion/confliction about which side to hammer is a town tell and assuming shelly flips scum then Growlithe's refusal to take part is also a town tell. Had the hammer been town vs town then Growlithe's irreverant behavior would have been a scum tell instead because it's an indicator he knew result would not matter.

[Frogsterking]

Some very strange things have happened here over the last several hours.