Newbie 2084: Signs [game over!]

[MegAzumarill]

It's a sine!

VOTE: Meuh

This is a very serious scumread.

[MegAzumarill]

HELLO EVERYBODY HELLA HYPED AND EXCITED TO BE PLAYING WITH U!!@@!!@@@!!!!

VOTE: Meuh

This is a very serious scumread.

locktown tbh

I have the rest of the game to change your mind!

[MegAzumarill]

This game surely got off to a slow start.

You are being a great help!

[MegAzumarill]

Game can start properly when the remaining 20% of people join us.

[MegAzumarill]

To clarify my whole stance on the read not being "real" it isn't that I feel like the read is disingenuous, it is just a read that feels like it shouldn't actually mean anything, if that makes sense.

As a general rule of thumb you shouldn't openly discredit reads like this unless grounded in bad logic, not just that you disagree.
All it does is hamper town. Each person can decide for themself if they think the point is valid.


No use discussing reads not grounded in evidence though they can be useful.

[MegAzumarill]

It's a personal policy to not start scumhunting till we are certain there are actually scum playing

Nothing that has happened so far has really warranted anything yet though

[MegAzumarill]

It's a personal policy to not start scumhunting till we are certain there are actually scum playing

Nothing that has happened so far has really warranted anything yet though

Well that’s the thing, us discussing is how we create things we can then discuss and read each other off of. I don’t think we should start wagons until all have spoken, but there’s no reason not to throw in some smaller scale reads and create the basic playing field we need to obtain to become productive as a town

I agree it's probably objectively bad for town but as a player I typically do 1 of 2 things.

1 Form reads slowly but have confidence in them
2 Jump on someone that I think is scummy early and death tunnel them forever (ask Greeting)

More interestingly I would like to know why Greeting/Cape think my behavior is AI.

[MegAzumarill]

I would also reiterate I want to hear Greeting's reasons for suspecting me so far. I think it's an important point

[MegAzumarill]

The invitation just feels like fake confidence and like I said, they never said they scumread you, so it came out of nowhere. I can easily see scum make that post in an attempt to posture as a confident townie willing to die, yknow?

mmmhmm yeah ic
why no vote pressure if u see that as scummy..?

I'd rather pressure someone who hasn't said a word yet, infighting amongst the active players would just reward not being present and allow potential scum to hide out in inactivity, so my vote stays where it is

I do like the idea of this post being that focus should be brought to an inactive slot, but I prefer pressuring people who are active to get a good grasp on their slot, and get a good read going.

EBWOP (I hate my grammar sometimes)

Generally I think that pressuring active players favors town and inactive players should really be pressured if the active players are acting town. Essentially sort the easiest to read players and poe the rest

[MegAzumarill]

Yeah, it's basically the difference between townhunting and scumhunting, both are perfectably reasonable approaches to the game, and everyone does a little of both

[MegAzumarill]

Dais-T

[MegAzumarill]

I agree I can make posts like 73 and 39 as scum
But I have plenty of reason to do it as town
Which would make it not alignment indicative
Also there was not guaranteed 1 scum spoken by 43, which is what I was referring to.
Do you have a reason I don't make those posts as town?

Unless you thin

[MegAzumarill]

*Unless you think that there is something that warranted my reaction in the first three pages that I didn't react to, why does 55 scare you?

[MegAzumarill]

Strangematter care to comment on my wagon?

[MegAzumarill]

Or anything game relevant for that matter

[MegAzumarill]

Yeah it reads to me like scum trying to look busy while not really doing anything, part of why it's important for them to give a well detailed reason for their vote, if they can

[MegAzumarill]

It's a personal policy to not start scumhunting till we are certain there are actually scum playing

Nothing that has happened so far has really warranted anything yet though

Well that’s the thing, us discussing is how we create things we can then discuss and read each other off of. I don’t think we should start wagons until all have spoken, but there’s no reason not to throw in some smaller scale reads and create the basic playing field we need to obtain to become productive as a town

I agree it's probably objectively bad for town but as a player I typically do 1 of 2 things.

1 Form reads slowly but have confidence in them
2 Jump on someone that I think is scummy early and death tunnel them forever (ask Greeting)

More interestingly I would like to know why Greeting/Cape think my behavior is AI.

I would also reiterate I want to hear Greeting's reasons for suspecting me so far. I think it's an important point

I wouldn't say that I find you suspicious so far. As to why my vote is where it is, I'm... testing stuff. This will be pretty vague but let me just say that if I truly wanted this wagon to succeed and had definite thoughts that you were scum, I wouldn't be worrying about you reaching E-2 or E-1.

mm yeah, putting people at e-2 isnt too bad of a thing i think..? as long as we would make it obv. we could always unvote if it looks like some people are setting up for a quick hammer as well.
i agree with (i forgot who said this, but them ), why are u so worried about numbers..? e-1 is where we should be sweating, but if u scumread someone or think somethings helpful, whats bad about putting them to e-2..?

Why am I worried about putting someone at E-2? Because we have two scums who can easily jump on a wagon and seal it. Also, I'm not having someone eliminated without proof or at least a feeling. Wagons can also be used for other purposes than actually voting someone out and that's what I want to do.

I'm really more concerned with the why you got here than the actual result itself.

If you say you're testing something you don't need to reveal quite yet but I would like the why revealed by eod

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Greeting

This is the spicy wagon.

[MegAzumarill]

I thought it was pretty well established the wagon on Greeting is because their content feels manufactured.
I agreed and asked for elaboration and didn't like their response. In fact I think some of their recent posting indicates scum.

[MegAzumarill]

Greeting's at E-2, no one else jump on the wagon, E-2 isn't risky but E-1 could be exploited by scum

I can't help but notice that... you're also on that wagon.

I assume that you're voting me out because you think I'm scum. But if I'm scum, then how exactly is my partner going to exploit this wagon?
And if you don't want to vote me out then why are you on my wagon, may I ask?

With this post you sound like someone who wants to sound like a genuine newbie, but what you said doesn't really make any sense. Unless you're doing something similar to what I'm doing with MegAzumarill's wagon.

This reads to me "I want to shade you for this but I am doing the same thing"
Which doesn't make sense from a town!greeting point of view.

[MegAzumarill]

Greeting's at E-2, no one else jump on the wagon, E-2 isn't risky but E-1 could be exploited by scum

I can't help but notice that... you're also on that wagon.

I assume that you're voting me out because you think I'm scum. But if I'm scum, then how exactly is my partner going to exploit this wagon?
And if you don't want to vote me out then why are you on my wagon, may I ask?

With this post you sound like someone who wants to sound like a genuine newbie, but what you said doesn't really make any sense. Unless you're doing something similar to what I'm doing with MegAzumarill's wagon.

I think you're the player most likely to be mafia, but it's a page 6 read, I'm not confident in it. You could be town and I wouldn't be too shocked.
Also, there's no benefit to not being careful here! Another thing to consider would be time as a resource, spending more time today talking will benefit us long term, there's no reason to want you hammered this early, even if I knew 100% that you were maf.

I am doing something similar to what you're doing with Meg's wagon

but you'll notice 2 things:
-It's not the focal points of the posts I made before voting for you (which it was for you before voting for Meg, while I casted actual suspicion before voting)
-I'm scared about E-1, not E-2, which I think is something scum could actually take advantage of here. They'd throw in a vote on you, say it was an accidental hammer and move on, it's something mafia could try to do here and I'd rather not deal with something of the sort.

So no, I don't want you to be hammered here, I think it'd be bad.

Okay, so if you are testing something, then what is it that you're testing?

You really barely answered any of my questions.

You have already said (strongly implied) that you did not to wish to reveal the reasons of your "test" in town's interests. Why would you push for a similar play to be revealed?

[MegAzumarill]

If revealing a similar play wouldn't be benificial to the town, what makes you think revealing this would be?

[MegAzumarill]

If revealing a similar play wouldn't be benificial to the town, what makes you think revealing this would be?

There are different degrees of similarity. If Meuh has a reason to keep their secret, I won't be a hypocrite and I will respect that. Except it seems that they don't have a secret nor a secret play (132).

That post was after your actions, yet you use it to justify them?

[MegAzumarill]

I thought it was pretty well established the wagon on Greeting is because their content feels manufactured.

I agreed and asked for elaboration and didn't like their response.

In fact I think some of their recent posting indicates scum.

What did you not like about my response?

The fact that I openly stated what I was doing, only withholding

why

I was doing it?
Or the fact that you asked for me to elaborate on it by the end of day and I said yes?

I honestly fail to see your logic.

For the reasons I elaborated on in the following posts, as well as I have yet to see much reads from your direction, much less those that feel like a natural process.

[MegAzumarill]

(Greeting)

(Another player)
My reads so far:

Town Lean

Hops - I can see the scumhunting on him.

Neutral

Most of the players.

Scum Lean

None so far. Will update info soon.

That was so... uninformative. Would putting you at E-1 speed up the info?

Rereading Greeting's ISO in Newbie 2081 the above quote stood out. Overall Greeting's play in that game (where we both were town) is a lot more transparent than their play here.

The above quote is essentially Greeting scumreading someone for about the same qualities they exhibit this game (lack of reads)
This matters because players (especially new ones) most often scum read behaviors that they themselves do as scum.

I'm going to read their other game on-site in a minute.

[MegAzumarill]

Newbie 2078 - Greeting Town
Greeting primarily talks about mech and strategy here over actual reads. It contrasts with her play in 2081, but I suspect its mostly due to it being their first game on site.
Take a look if you want but it doesn't feel like much can be drawn between that one and this.

I am still yet to see any townlike qualities from greeting's play this game, but I'll turn my attention elsewhere for now.

[MegAzumarill]

I like Prism for town, it's clear they are looking at very nuanced reasons to townread the people they do, which I don't feel like would be a concern with scum!prism

[MegAzumarill]

Well done, keeping temporarily a secret and admitting to it is

not

, as a matter of fact, transparent.

Do you seriously think the rest of your play has been?

[MegAzumarill]

Prohawk/Azu stucky don't have anything of substance so they get to sit in nulland

marcistar/strangematter have fairly townie posts so far so they get a TL so far (although weaker on strange matter because they lack content, even if I like what they do have)




Scum = players not laigned with town

E-X = a player is X votes away from elimination (death)

[MegAzumarill]

Also improtant abbreviations

TR/Sr = townread/ scumread (someone you think is town/scum)
TL/SL = townlean /scumlean (the above but less confident)
NR or nullread (no idea what their alignment is)

? Is this based off of Mini Normal 2241?

No not from scum!you just scum in general doesn't have reason to immediately deepdive into a player to try to find minute details to justify a player is town. ( It doesn't serve a purpose, is hard to do naturally, and often isn't convincing evidence to protect a partner. )

[MegAzumarill]

In general I don't like using meta for reads on players, but despite the similar situation with greeting in 2081, their play pinged me as off so I decided to reread their ISO for that.

[MegAzumarill]

Meuh is an interesting case, I don't think they are S/S (scum partners) with greeting. I could see town!meuh and scum!greeting or vice versa. I'd like to hear more from the slot and don't want to lim them today.



This leaves a pool of AzuStuckey, greeting, Prohawk lims for today.

[MegAzumarill]

Meuh is an interesting case, I don't think they are S/S (scum partners) with greeting. I could see town!meuh and scum!greeting or vice versa. I'd like to hear more from the slot and don't want to lim them today.



This leaves a pool of AzuStuckey, greeting, Prohawk lims for today.

I'm currently mentally preparing to ISO a bunch of people and drop a readslist later tonight instead of just ISOing Greeting, so you should have some more of that juicy juicy content like you got in 69. (Might end up procrastinating and not doing it, but I'll try my best to )

It's really not a matter of the content you are posting or the amount, but it leans on paranoia so it's probably best not to discuss.

[MegAzumarill]

No not from scum!you just scum in general doesn't have reason to immediately deepdive into a player to try to find minute details to justify a player is town. ( It doesn't serve a purpose, is hard to do naturally, and often isn't convincing evidence to protect a partner. )

It doesn't serve a specific purpose, but many things don't as scum and they're fairly rote?

Spoiler: Scum post sample

is there any reason to doubt prism's alignment?

do you think scum!prism would be more or less likely to express that they were upset with a town/town pairing after witnessing menalque’s reaction to a scum flip in the tarot game?

This post by a scum player was extremely specific about why I was town, but wasn't targeted at getting me specifically to townread the player. It just leveraged pre-existing knowledge to create a believable read for general effect, very similar to my read on marcistar.

I don't want to get too much into the weeds here debating why my own play isn't strongly AI, but this is a strangely lax belief.

I suppose we will see then, although you seem fairly confident and consitent with you doing that in this game. I'll probably give that game a look but from what I see at first, that was more of a passing comment.
(i.e. A single comment wouldn't be out of the question but with you its a repeat offense)

It's possible you are making your life a lot more difficult for towncred but it doesn't feel that way.

[MegAzumarill]

-_()_- It feels more likely to come from town than scum.

I'd provide example but I don't think we'd get anywhere.

VOTE: ProHawk Let's get some pressure this way.

[MegAzumarill]

Prism why the change of read on Greeting?
And I know I am one of your scumreads so I'm wondering if you think I'm bussing, me/Greeting are s/t or something else

[MegAzumarill]

That links to a hidden topic. It is properly formatted for a copy paste (the post number is doubled in the link) and unlikely to be a simple typo.

VOTE: Greeting

I don't see another avenue forward here. Sorry.

This is unclear if the reasons why you are voting here.

[MegAzumarill]

The implication is that it is most likely a scum PT. They provided the explanation that it is a notes PT. I find the scum PT more likely.

Are you proposing an elimination over this? I don't see how that accusation can be addressed, and appears to be meaningful enough of you to 180 the slot.

Personally I can give some benefit of the doubt in the situation although I find Greeting scummy on their own.

[MegAzumarill]

Yes. I have discussed this already with Greeting and acknowledged it is an irreconcilable difference.

I do not understand how this is even a question for someone who is supposedly reading my posts.

I mean I got that impression but just wanted to make sure. It was really drastic and mostly laid out in subtext.

[MegAzumarill]

I am okay with a greeting lim but there's no reason to cut the day short.

I still want some content from ProHawk, we can't read that slot if they don't post anything

[MegAzumarill]

Greeting, I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the way some people talk or general archetypes of players as patterns from past games to define your reads. I skimmed through other games I played with Marci and she didn’t use capital letters more there. Mentors can be town, and they can be scum. I don’t think alignment would change whether or not someone plays as a mentor or if someone suddenly likes capitalizing things.

VOTE: Greeting
If anything their recent play has reinforced my scumread on them.
It's a very easy thing for newer scum players to try and read into styles more so than content because
1. It's easy
2 It's the first thing you notice
3 They don't actually need to use the content to solve the game

[MegAzumarill]

Real quick, initial impressions are that Greeting doesn't feel like opportunistic scum for vote hopping to marci who is generally town-read in the thread.

Probably going to take a peek at Prism, getting scum-vibes there ATM.

What makes you scumread prism?

[MegAzumarill]

Also; as soon as the initial push on Greeting started, they and strange have been oddly silent about each other. (As far as I see their last mention was on Greeting.

It feels like intentional distancing to me if I'm right about greeting, because they've interacted with almost every other slot far as I can tell

[MegAzumarill]

You really should have an opinion on Greeting considering the amount oof discussion on that slot

[MegAzumarill]

I would like to hear about Greeting's radio silence on Strange until their last post when they managed to fit "null read" into a bigger paragraph than any of their actual reads

[MegAzumarill]

I think Greeting> Strange mattet would be my solve atm, I'm fairly confident this is not the Town!greeting from our last game.

[MegAzumarill]

(Greeting)

(Another player)
My reads so far:

Town Lean

Hops - I can see the scumhunting on him.

Neutral

Most of the players.

Scum Lean

None so far. Will update info soon.

That was so... uninformative. Would putting you at E-1 speed up the info?

Rereading Greeting's ISO in Newbie 2081 the above quote stood out. Overall Greeting's play in that game (where we both were town) is a lot more transparent than their play here.

The above quote is essentially Greeting scumreading someone for about the same qualities they exhibit this game (lack of reads)
This matters because players (especially new ones) most often scum read behaviors that they themselves do as scum.

I'm going to read their other game on-site in a minute.

Newbie 2078 - Greeting Town
Greeting primarily talks about mech and strategy here over actual reads. It contrasts with her play in 2081, but I suspect its mostly due to it being their first game on site.
Take a look if you want but it doesn't feel like much can be drawn between that one and this.

I am still yet to see any townlike qualities from greeting's play this game, but I'll turn my attention elsewhere for now.

Here's the links to games/ my previous thoughts on that but I'll do a more in depth explanation later. In general this Greeting seems a lot less proactive and is exhibiting behaviors they scumread others for IIRC

[MegAzumarill]

Greeting, I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the way some people talk or general archetypes of players as patterns from past games to define your reads. I skimmed through other games I played with Marci and she didn’t use capital letters more there. Mentors can be town, and they can be scum. I don’t think alignment would change whether or not someone plays as a mentor or if someone suddenly likes capitalizing things.

VOTE: Greeting
If anything their recent play has reinforced my scumread on them.
It's a very easy thing for newer scum players to try and read into styles more so than content because
1. It's easy
2 It's the first thing you notice
3 They don't actually need to use the content to solve the game

why wouldnt his partner tell him to stop after the first time?

Which player here would you even think would have both the confidence and means to try and micromanage their partner in such a way?

[MegAzumarill]

In 2081 Greeting from the gate is proactive and inquisitive, leans more aggresive than passive responds to pressure with transparency and explanation.

In this game they start off slow, responds to pressure with deflection, doesn't even feign giving reasons for most of their action, generally uninquisitive.

I mean it's pretty much night and day if you want to read it yourself

[MegAzumarill]

-_()_- It feels more likely to come from town than scum.

I'd provide example but I don't think we'd get anywhere.

VOTE: ProHawk Let's get some pressure this way.

Can you explain your logic/reasoning here? Have you put Greeting on the not-scum list as of this post?

Nope, still was scumreading greeting but the wagon was stagnant so I decided to try to get some content out of you.

[MegAzumarill]

Nope, still was scumreading greeting but the wagon was stagnant so I decided to

try

to get some content out of you.

Voting me to get more content out of me usually only works when I'm around

[MegAzumarill]

I think Greeting> Strange mattet would be my solve atm, I'm fairly confident this is not the Town!greeting from our last game.

Seriously, have you even read my posts? I’ve been reading elsewhere and yet it’s just distancing to you? Do you not understand that people have ACTUAL places they want to focus on at this moment?

Maybe you should try actually giving some info to the game? You just look like lazy newbscum not giving input at this point so speak up if you are town

[MegAzumarill]

RVS really.

Never really had anywhere I wanted to go on the vote. But I'm kind of leaning towards Meg as one of my votes for today.

Just because I want to call you out for just coasting by on little actual content isn't a reason to scumread me.

Actually post some of your thoughts because that's how town wins. We need discussion not you sitting around playing the OMGUS card

[MegAzumarill]

The prism/prohawk argument I have feelings on but wish not to say until after Asus Replacement comments on the matter

[MegAzumarill]

I'm honored to have my own tier!

[MegAzumarill]

It makes me want to cry tiers of joy.

[MegAzumarill]

See one of these days I'm going to mirror the eyes and see who notices.
Or maybe slightly zoom in on the face

[MegAzumarill]

The paranoia is essentially scum will vote and then claim they did not know it was E-1

Which is still plausible

The probably worse case is if town actually does not know it is E-1 and then hammers (Which does happen)

[MegAzumarill]

The solution is to force everyone to declare what they are putting a player at (i.e. e-2 or e-1)

[MegAzumarill]

I plan to do a big reads post after candy catches up, I want to see how they interpret/ read everyone

[MegAzumarill]

actually there’s another game where people literally accused me several times doing nothing

Still catching up but can cosign this as I moderated it.

Please catch up

[MegAzumarill]

I wanted to wait until after the catchup but I suppose I'll give some thoughts now to allow for enough time in the day phase to decide on a lim.

I'm currently locked on mobile at the moment so don't expect anything fancy.

I think that ProHawk's recent posting has been incredibly townie (a few key points to this but I'll get that when I can use a CPU) and that their interaction with prism (if s/t)points to scum!prism moreover then scum!prohawk)

While I initially townread prism their play since that point has really fallen off and they have moved quite far down my reads list. Their insistence on a prohawk lim and interaction with Greeting over the Pt issue makes me want them as the next lim.

I'll go in depth when able (unknown when but probably in 24 hrs or so)

VOTE: Prism

[MegAzumarill]

I don't think I've ever seen these sort of consensus scum read lims nearing deadline ever result in eliminating scum, especially D1, and DEFINITELY not with wagons this stagnant.
If there isn't traction for the wagon we need to make it.
All aboard the Prism bus!

[MegAzumarill]

pagetop?

[MegAzumarill]

I'm pretty busy for the most part and skimmed through my catchup
VOTE: Cabd

Prohawk is a town read so I prefer a null read over them obviously

[MegAzumarill]

Looking back at what I had originally found townie about Prohawk's interaction on you it doesn't look nearly as town indicative as I originally thought.

I think I still prefer the cabd lim here though.
Strange should make a decision one way or another with a vote.

[MegAzumarill]

Just go to sleep it'll be fine

[MegAzumarill]

Definitely!

[MegAzumarill]

I think my reads lineup mostly with what I said earlier today except prism has lowered substantially, Greeting has risen slightly, and I'm ready to place meuh as town over scum

[MegAzumarill]

For you I'll run through the game again assuming I see dawn.
For the most part it was a slow burn of losing towncred over a few things (Greeting pt, still dislike your side on prohawk)

[MegAzumarill]

Hello!

VOTE: Greeting

I'll post more when able but I was busy over Thanksgiving.

[MegAzumarill]

Also prism kill strongly implicates Greeting as scum.

Add it to the pile of reasons to vote them!

[MegAzumarill]

You were irreparable scum in their eyes and you knew it.
You would have to kill them at some point this game or you would lose. And each day their vote only grows stronger

[MegAzumarill]

I mean it does but more strongly for Greeting

It gets into Wifom for prohawk but with Greeting its more straightforward

[MegAzumarill]

Probably feared investigative prism? They would need to kill them at some point.

Prohawk Greeting makes a lot of sense if it's a tracker setup tbh.
Prism would track one of the two for sure

[MegAzumarill]

The actual logistics of it are complicated.

If Greeting is scum the prism kill is forced, but prism could still be killed with town!Greeting.

Independent of the nightkill I want a Greeting elim on long discussed grounds. I don't think their play matches them as town and there's always the whole PT think prism likely died over.

Prohawk aftee my catchup would be the most likely partner for Greeting. After their exchange with prism it looked townie at first, but looks more like forced cluelessness as scum digging deeper.

[MegAzumarill]

Confused on the last line, please clarify

[MegAzumarill]

Also when has anyone but me been willing to send you out? Prism is the only other person that has shown much interest in that direction.
Are you over estimating the pressure on you?

[MegAzumarill]

I believe the pressure is well merited. I have since D1.

The PT thing in itself is not reason to vote you, but when scum's actions line up with what you would basically be forced to do, and you are already scummy, its not hard to connect the dots.

[MegAzumarill]

At what point did I say it was between prohawk and greeting?
Prohawk/greeting are the most probable solve, but even then the odds aren't good.

I'm looking at the other suspects as we go about this lim. But eliminating a scummier player is always better on the chance they are town. Others may rise to the occasion though

[MegAzumarill]

I am not the lim today.
This game is pretty much solved from my perspective.

Meuh and Cape are almost definitely town.
Prohawk is not s/s with marcistar.

I am town.

Therefore we have 5 scumteam options: Greeting with strange, prohawk, or Marci.
Or strangematter with Marci/prohawk.

A Greeting into strangehawk lim guarantees we make it to d4 at least. If I get limped we likely lose lylo

[MegAzumarill]

Also the push on me on the grounds of opportunism is so bad it's almost laughable for 2 reasons.

1. I've been on greetings case since d1.
2. There would be not one but 2 easier Mislims for me to push if I was scum. These being strange or prohawk. Even if one would be my partner why wouldn't I get the other killed if I wanted a free townie dead.

Maybe provide an actual valid reason if you want to wagon someone to e-1. The wagon on me formed very quick over me pointing out the obvious, it almost definitely has some scum in there. I'll analyze it shortly

[MegAzumarill]

The bigger problem with my flip is I don't think it gives any information going into limlo.
If I flip town what do we learn?

[MegAzumarill]

I swear if you end up getting blindsided by a marci/Greeting team it will not be a pretty postgame

[MegAzumarill]

Talk to me about Greeting, I am getting a lot of newb town feels from that slot.

I'm open to a marci elimination though.

I swear I've spent half the game casing that slot.


Just do me a favor.
Read this

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

And I swear you won't be able to tell me it's the same Greeting.

It is night and day

[MegAzumarill]

Unless I'm way off base greeting Strangematter is s/t or s/s.

This is at least one partner and I think the odds are good we can spot the partner.
I've got which is which in mind but I don't think its a good call to say now.

[MegAzumarill]

Nah I don't think I will

[MegAzumarill]

I don't have anything to add atm. I want to see how your partner reacts :p

[MegAzumarill]

not voting [3]: StrangeMatter, Cape90, Meuh

I think it's time for you to make a decision, or give a reason why this day should continue.
I don't see any meaningful discussion at this point, cases have been made and it's time to make a call or inquire about what you are still unsure of.

[MegAzumarill]

At this point I'm tired of reiterating points and having my thoughts thrown out because "greeting is townie"

I'm fighting an uphill battle of someone that I think has had no right to live past D1 compared to what the other wagons were, much less live past today.
It's frustrating as hell and I'm ready to be done with it one way or another.

[MegAzumarill]

not voting [3]: StrangeMatter, Cape90, Meuh

I think it's time for you to make a decision, or give a reason why this day should continue.
I don't see any meaningful discussion at this point, cases have been made and it's time to make a call or inquire about what you are still unsure of.

For one thing, I need people to stop trying to stick a gun to my head to vote, and I'm at the point of saying screw off, I'm doing what I think is best. I still think there's meaningful conversation going on and if you think otherwise I don't know what to tell you. Such as #791 where it gives me almost nothing and is incredibly vague and I want more out of there.

If you think the conversation is meaningful how about you participate

[MegAzumarill]

Why is marcistar excluded from your list?

Didn't you say you think their thought process can come from scum?

[MegAzumarill]

*Sirens blare

Cute police, hands in the air!

[MegAzumarill]

Did you take my gun?

[MegAzumarill]

We still have 2 days on deadline so that's not an issue

What do you scumread about prohawk?

[MegAzumarill]

Prohawk can be town if its just marcistar and Greeting.
Marci's play today feels s/s with Greeting although I'm not for sure about it.

[MegAzumarill]

Greeting is more likely partnered with strange than prohawk imo.

Agree that I don't think prohawk/marci is s/s independently of greeting

[MegAzumarill]

Greeting flailing go brrrrr

[MegAzumarill]

Marci's shade onto me for saying I didn't give him enough time is also just really not great. But then there's #792 which I don't get at all why you'd want that, but as I've learned it almost always comes from newbie town, especially when two people in the same game also pushed something similar, though I still have a massive fear of scum abusing such a

common thought

process.

If you fear scum abusing it then why do you think it's town indicative? Especially if you think its common

[MegAzumarill]

Also please throw out a vote

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Greeting

Hammer go brrrrrrr
--------[]

[MegAzumarill]

UNVOTE: Greeting
Until/if we get a cc

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Strangematter

This is where I want to vote if no cc

[MegAzumarill]

I've been thinking about this and I think Greeting is still the lim.

They are pretty likely scum already and scum!greeting always claims cop here.
Most likely we save the real cop.
If Greeting flips town then feel free to blame me but I think this is still better 90% of the time. VOTE: Greeting >

[MegAzumarill]

We lose a conftownie tonight either way

It's really a question of how likely is Greeting scum.
3 players would claim cop here, both scum and the cop.

It's a 66% chance of Greeting scum MINIMUM so it's just better most of the time

[MegAzumarill]

Wha-why???

Get off of Greeting please.

No, it’s okay. Go on, hammer this if you wish. If it takes down

MegAzumarill

D3 then it should be done.

This is fine if I'm wrong I honestly deserve.to lose.

[MegAzumarill]

If there’s no scum between Greeting/Meg I’ll actually just cry

Me too

All that work for nothing would be a shame.

I have picked up some cop!crumbs from someone else and I don't want them to cc right now.

You can hammer here, Greeting isn't cop

[MegAzumarill]

For the future Greeting you shouldn't resort to OMGUS for your reads

[MegAzumarill]

Well this is awkward

[MegAzumarill]

One wrong vote and we lose so hold off votes for now.

[MegAzumarill]

Enormous apology to Greeting though, feel free to yell at me about it post game.

I think we should eliminate Strangematter today.

I think the scumteam is cape/strange, I had thought Cape was the cop before because they were acting at the start of d2 like they knew strangematter's alignment.

[MegAzumarill]

From where I stand, the ProHawk wagon looks pretty pure
Though it would be the wildest thing if the scumteam was Pro/Marci now huh. I'm tempted to jump the gun and say if ProHawk is town, then Marci probably has a good shot at being mafia

Let's not stall out here.
Let's get a general consensus with 2-3 IRL days on the calendar and not run down to the wire in case we need to make a change in decision *last mintue*

I have seen a lot of people throwing out StrangeMatter on their list of mafia candidates, why isn't there more of a push here?

Why do you keep trying to throw shade (that's what it feels like) onto people?

Because he knows your town and with this shade he is throwing at you, he believes that he can start a misvote on you through this message.

Oh I mean, if ProHawk is mafia that is :p

[MegAzumarill]

Their they act like they think that Strange is towny, but then later.....

okay Meg is town (upon evaluation today)
mueh town

gut tells me
Greeting town

leaving
prohawk
strange
marci

prohawk and marci aren't scumpaired

VOTE: StrangeMatter

leaving this by POE.

Now I will logdive and see if I stand incorrect, I don't think anybody really brought up too much in terms of meta of StrangeMatter

they act like they had had them as a scumread all along, and it feels like distancing since this was too late in the day for a strangematter elimination to be practical.

[MegAzumarill]

Lack of voting

, lots of opinions, essentially fence-sitting behavior

Okay I know this is about Cape09, but why is a lack of voting scummy?

In fact, that's exactly what someone said about my slot, and was completely wrong on eliminating me (which was Town). I've said this before (very very poorly worded I think) that voting is not worth looking into without the reason behind it.

Also, you just vote to piss people off? And how does that even tie into "scum need to stay out of the limelight"? I've seen plenty of people who bring attention to themselves, and push themselves as deep wolves as well.

Wha-why???

Get off of Greeting please.

Strange mateer defends Cape early on despite lack of pressure and then TMI's greeting as town and decides to not get involved in the wagon whatsoever. Probably not wanting to get their hands dirty but still wanting the cop to go down.

[MegAzumarill]

Cape's play was good on day 1 but really fell to the back burner on day 2 when scum didn't have to change the gamestate because there was a strong tvt fight going.
Strange's platy has been consistantly fence sitty and not actively scumhunting/solving.

[MegAzumarill]

I spent most of the night phaase reevaluating and this is what I've come up- with.

I usually ge5t it right on my second attempt at least :p

[MegAzumarill]

You were there 25 minutes earlier and in a great spot to make a deciscion

[MegAzumarill]

Or did you leave and hope that the rapidly shrinking deadline would lead to a no lim?

[MegAzumarill]

Do you even have a proposal for a solve?

[MegAzumarill]

The reasons were that you interacted with strangematyer in a way that you knew their alignment.

[MegAzumarill]

[MegAzumarill]

My play doesn't even makes sense as scum

If I wanted to trade 1f1 with the cop I just cc
Instead you are saying I decided to try and get someone I knew was conf!town Limmed when if I failed I'm essentially outed and my team almost always autoloses.
Does that make sense to you?

[MegAzumarill]

Humor me this, if Greeting was a Vanilla townie and was flipped yesterday, and the cop got nightkillled who would be limmed today?
Would it not likely be me for pushing so hard on a townie?
If so why on EARTH would I try to 1f1 with a Vanilla townie as scum. Wouldn't I not go after Greeting as hard?

[MegAzumarill]

Ouch ELO

The end of the day was really weird, but honestly I don’t feel terrible about hammering Greeting considering he literally voted for himself

Meg’s probably just scum here

Trust in the rabbit
I shall not disappoint

again

[MegAzumarill]

My play doesn't even makes sense as scum

If I wanted to trade 1f1 with the cop I just cc
Instead you are saying I decided to try and get someone I knew was conf!town Limmed when if I failed I'm essentially outed and my team almost always autoloses.
Does that make sense to you?

Why CC and trade 1f1 when you can get Greeting hammered and now today still have a shot at not being limmed?

It's 10x safer so you don't risk losing on the spot.
I always play safe as scum. We have 7 days read any of my scumgames

[MegAzumarill]

My play doesn't even makes sense as scum

If I wanted to trade 1f1 with the cop I just cc
Instead you are saying I decided to try and get someone I knew was conf!town Limmed when if I failed I'm essentially outed and my team almost always autoloses.
Does that make sense to you?

CC you die next day.

Push a "He's a liar, I saw who *really* is the town cop, I know who you are so don't counter claim" and get him to be eliminated without a lie yourself and well you get to live another day and eliminate two confirmed town.

So no, your play makes perfect sense as scum because you avoid being caught in a lie with the same result.

I haven't decided who is *actual* scum here yet, still need to do some evaluating, but it's at best anti-town-play.

P-EDIT: Don't steal my thunder Meuh

Doesn't explain why I'd been basically setting up a 1f1 without having any way to tell Greeting is cop.

[MegAzumarill]

Imagine greeting claimed and flipped VT.

We would be in a similar position today as we are now because I pushed so hard for a townie's death. (maybe not as bad)

[MegAzumarill]

My play before the claim wouldn't make any sense as scum to trade for a random townie that is most likely VT.

[MegAzumarill]

My point is if Greeting was a VT (which they could have been from Scum!mEG'S PERSPECTIVE) it would be stupid to play like I did D2

[MegAzumarill]

I would prefer to discuss who else we can put on the chopping block.

Can you say strangematter has done a single townie thing this game?
Have you seen cape do an ounce of towniness since d1?

[MegAzumarill]

I will, but regardless of my or capes alignment discussion here is +town

[MegAzumarill]

And yes I'm aware there will be a mechanical s/T between us when strange posts again

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Cape90

Alright it's a mechanical guilty now

[MegAzumarill]

So my answer was:

Scum knows that MegAzu's play was insanely scum-motivated. In scum chat: "okay let's just start the bussing train for a 3p endgame win instead of go for a win today because town is likely going to vote you off anyway."

Cape did just that, not worrying at all about the consequences if they were both town.

Which one do you want to eliminate first?

Yeah Meg was the obvious elim today, so the best play for scum is to let him be elimed and try to make his other team member look as townie as possible so they can win on day 4.

Ah yes you should definitely help me bus then.

It's actually just cape/strange but we should never elim outside of cape/me today

[MegAzumarill]

My play doesn't even makes sense as scum

If I wanted to trade 1f1 with the cop I just cc
Instead you are saying I decided to try and get someone I knew was conf!town Limmed when if I failed I'm essentially outed and my team almost always autoloses.
Does that make sense to you?

It makes perfect sense LMAO. You aren't serious.

Humor me this, if Greeting was a Vanilla townie and was flipped yesterday, and the cop got nightkillled who would be limmed today?

3. Mechanically you are lock scum because I didn't even realize it was 3v2 right now but it is and you aren't getting hammered.

Already went over this

[MegAzumarill]

Enormous apology to Greeting though, feel free to yell at me about it post game.

I think we should eliminate Strangematter today.

I think the scumteam is cape/strange, I had thought Cape was the cop before because they were acting at the start of d2 like they knew strangematter's alignment.

From where I stand, the ProHawk wagon looks pretty pure
Though it would be the wildest thing if the scumteam was Pro/Marci now huh. I'm tempted to jump the gun and say if ProHawk is town, then Marci probably has a good shot at being mafia

Let's not stall out here.
Let's get a general consensus with 2-3 IRL days on the calendar and not run down to the wire in case we need to make a change in decision *last mintue*

I have seen a lot of people throwing out StrangeMatter on their list of mafia candidates, why isn't there more of a push here?

Why do you keep trying to throw shade (that's what it feels like) onto people?

Because he knows your town and with this shade he is throwing at you, he believes that he can start a misvote on you through this message.

Oh I mean, if ProHawk is mafia that is :p

Their they act like they think that Strange is towny, but then later.....

okay Meg is town (upon evaluation today)
mueh town

gut tells me
Greeting town

leaving
prohawk
strange
marci

prohawk and marci aren't scumpaired

VOTE: StrangeMatter

leaving this by POE.

Now I will logdive and see if I stand incorrect, I don't think anybody really brought up too much in terms of meta of StrangeMatter

they act like they had had them as a scumread all along, and it feels like distancing since this was too late in the day for a strangematter elimination to be practical.

Lack of voting

, lots of opinions, essentially fence-sitting behavior

Okay I know this is about Cape09, but why is a lack of voting scummy?

In fact, that's exactly what someone said about my slot, and was completely wrong on eliminating me (which was Town). I've said this before (very very poorly worded I think) that voting is not worth looking into without the reason behind it.

Also, you just vote to piss people off? And how does that even tie into "scum need to stay out of the limelight"? I've seen plenty of people who bring attention to themselves, and push themselves as deep wolves as well.

Wha-why???

Get off of Greeting please.

Strange mateer defends Cape early on despite lack of pressure and then TMI's greeting as town and decides to not get involved in the wagon whatsoever. Probably not wanting to get their hands dirty but still wanting the cop to go down.

They make more sense partnered with Cape90. (who is now conf!scum FMPOV)

[MegAzumarill]

Essentially Cape90 acted in a way indicitive of them already knowing Strangematter's alignment.

[MegAzumarill]

So my answer was:

Scum knows that MegAzu's play was insanely scum-motivated. In scum chat: "okay let's just start the bussing train for a 3p endgame win instead of go for a win today because town is likely going to vote you off anyway."

Cape did just that, not worrying at all about the consequences if they were both town.

Which one do you want to eliminate first?

Yeah Meg was the obvious elim today, so the best play for scum is to let him be elimed and try to make his other team member look as townie as possible so they can win on day 4.

Ah yes you should definitely help me bus then.

It's actually just cape/strange but we should never elim outside of cape/me today

Why Strange versus me or Meuh?

Strange is the low-hanging fruit.

Why can LHF not be scum? Becuase being scummy =/= scum but being scummy for sure =/= town

[MegAzumarill]

So my answer was:

Scum knows that MegAzu's play was insanely scum-motivated. In scum chat: "okay let's just start the bussing train for a 3p endgame win instead of go for a win today because town is likely going to vote you off anyway."

Cape did just that, not worrying at all about the consequences if they were both town.

Which one do you want to eliminate first?

Yeah Meg was the obvious elim today, so the best play for scum is to let him be elimed and try to make his other team member look as townie as possible so they can win on day 4.

Ah yes you should definitely help me bus then.

It's actually just cape/strange but we should never elim outside of cape/me today

Pukes.

Alright anyone who doesn't think that policy eliminating you is a good idea will have a nice talk with me in post game.

Everything you are doing/saying reeks of opportunism.

That's why hanging cop then saying me/StrangeMatter is so obviously a scum play. Opportunism. Makes sense to me. Makes sense to strange if strange is town.

This is legit the most obvious choice ever and if y'all end up hanging me over obvscum over here. Never playing with y'all on MS ever again.

Greeting ROLLING in there grave

"Oh they did something scummy so it's obviously them, just vote the other person, no need to actually look into my slot"

[MegAzumarill]

I mentally wrote you off as probably cop and then proceeded to continue pushing Greeting since it didn't look like you innod them.

I literally keep notes PTs as scum to avoid this exact issue

[MegAzumarill]

This exact issue = continuity

[MegAzumarill]

You making my boneheaded decision more boneheaded doesn't make it more likely.
They need to look at your slot today so we have a tomorrow

[MegAzumarill]

I will defend myself from scum If I'll lose otherwise
My defense is for the class not you

[MegAzumarill]

A little benefit of the doubt would be nice

[MegAzumarill]

A little benefit of the doubt would be nice

What benefit of the doubt?

That I did something stupid over just being scum.

[MegAzumarill]

Really if the game continues to tomorrow I accomplished something here

[MegAzumarill]

Twice

[MegAzumarill]

Cape is oscillating on conftown strange and scum strange and I 5hought it was cop at first

[MegAzumarill]

If you're scum your partner is strange silly

[MegAzumarill]

I think it's kinda obvious me and Cape aren't aligned.
We probably just lose tomorrow even if you lim correct (cape) today

[MegAzumarill]

I was a little tunnel visioned I will admit.
Pr hunting is good for town to try to avoid the PRs so they aren't forced to claim in public

[MegAzumarill]

I mean I don't see a way town wins this at this point.
If I don't go today it'll be tomorrow and either way it's a loss

[MegAzumarill]

Unless yall can see that there's a ton of ways I could've handled today as scum and yet I'm doing the only way to go about it as town then I think the games already called

[MegAzumarill]

This game is entirely stagnant its time to make a call.
Obviously there's nothing more to say

[MegAzumarill]

For dl info we have ~4 days

[MegAzumarill]

I will not lim outside of Cape today, because they are confirmed scum fmpov.

I don't think I would want them eliminated if that wasn't the case, so make of that what you will.

[MegAzumarill]

Prohawk if you are planning to still vote me at end at this point, you can say so now.
I don't think theres anything that will change your mind at this point, we need to all vote scum but if we're not together we may as well not wait. I want this discussed now not in a scramble at dl

[MegAzumarill]

Second to that

Happy birthday

[MegAzumarill]

Prohawk never dies here.
It's frankly a stupid idea over the 50/50 of me and cape

[MegAzumarill]

Agreed, I understand your choice either way. I don't think I can change your mind at this point if you are still going to end up voting me.

[MegAzumarill]

I also don't think Town can win I'd you're still townreading strangematter for not being here.

[MegAzumarill]

Blatantly ignoring the fact prohawk has said they would hammer me?

[MegAzumarill]

Clock is ticking folks

[MegAzumarill]

*summons meuh*

[MegAzumarill]

Apparently I unsummoned them
They just went offline

[MegAzumarill]

Why would I ever defend my partner here as scum?

[MegAzumarill]

I think it's pretty obvious we aren't aligned but people don't think so
I'll cross that bridge when/if I come to it.

[MegAzumarill]

I think if I survive today I can convince a vote on strange.
Today will be harder than tomorrow, it's easier to vote out the inactive mafia over the active after all

[MegAzumarill]

I do have an entire case primed and ready about how me and Cape are not s/s.

If you want to see it we should lim cape.

[MegAzumarill]

It's not +town to post right now.

If I die tonight I'd be surprised and it's just strange

[MegAzumarill]

Can't even commit to a side

[MegAzumarill]

Sounds to me like "My partner is as scummy as Meg but I'd prefer limming town"

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: MegAzumarill


"Death is nothing at all. It does not count. I have only slipped away into the next room. Nothing has happened. Everything remains exactly as it was. I am I, and you are you, and the old life that we lived so fondly together is untouched, unchanged. Whatever we were to each other, that we are still. Call me by the old familiar name. Speak of me in the easy way which you always used. Put no difference into your tone. Wear no forced air of solemnity or sorrow. Laugh as we always laughed at the little jokes that we enjoyed together. Play, smile, think of me, pray for me. Let my name be ever the household word that it always was. Let it be spoken without an effort, without the ghost of a shadow upon it. Life means all that it ever meant. It is the same as it ever was. There is absolute and unbroken continuity. What is this death but a negligible accident? Why should I be out of mind because I am out of sight? I am but waiting for you, for an interval, somewhere very near, just round the corner. All is well. Nothing is hurt; nothing is lost. One brief moment and all will be as it was before. How we shall laugh at the trouble of parting when we meet again!"

- H. S. Holland

[MegAzumarill]

Ggwp all