Newbie 1714 (Game Over)

[Zyf]

VOTE: Ranger

Senpai please teach me ;-;

Definitely agree with beeboy here but not gonna pull out an actual vote.

Just to get the conversation going, what's everyone's experience with any sort of mafia?

I've only played it once with some exchange students, so as you can probably imagine, that wasn't very serious.
I've also read through a couple of forum mafia games though, and I definitely like forum mafia over live mafia–I only have a good poker face when I'm doing poorly, I'm awful at hiding when I'm succeeding...at least, IRL: on a forum it can be much more contained.

[Zyf]

Actually, here. VOTE: beeboy
Since you're SE: why're you pulling out the 'innocent newb' card?

[Zyf]

Actually, here. VOTE: beeboy
Since you're SE: why're you pulling out the 'innocent newb' card?

You caught me, awww shucks!

I thought that if I could convince you all I don't have dozens of mafia games you would treat me as a beginner and could coast to the end game.

To others:
I personally don't trust the sarcasm. fosing for toDay.

[Zyf]

Although your push is based on misunderstanding a joke I made you are probably town aligned and we are only 10 posts into the game!

At this stage in the game I'd much rather err and make it clear that I'm town-aligned than say nothing at all.
Granted, if you really are town-aligned, at least you didn't claim

Fos still stands, but your defense makes sense...although the sarcasm really makes me feel uncomfortable. Null read at best.
UNVOTE: beeboy
We just have to wait now for the rest.

[Zyf]

Senpai please teach me ;-;

<3

I think that, as far as how I'll IC, the best way in general will just be to let things be unless I see an obvious need to intervene, e.g. if a newbie expects to seriously no-lynch on D1 I'd need to tell them why we don't do that.

Also, I know you know the answer to this, but no spoilers. I want the newbs here to think about this:
{beeboy}
{dvds}
{Zyf, sad}

What exactly do you mean by that 'sad' after my name? Also no, I don't know the answer to 'this' >.<'

Also, just a mafia pattern question: in higher level play, do Town-aligned people purposely act slightly scummy to avoid getting lynched or do they try and make it as clear as possible that they aren't mafia.

Also what's the relationship between beeboy and you? You two seemed to be trying pretty hard to get in the same lobby. Do you know each other irl?

[Zyf]

Also what's the relationship between beeboy and you? You two seemed to be trying pretty hard to get in the same lobby. Do you know each other irl?

We are lovers irl

Oh...kden.
Good to know.

[Zyf]

@Zyf: You don't really have to unvote... Just when I began to like your vote.
[/v]Sickofit1138VOTE: Sick of it.

Oh, u might know too.
Do people in higher level play still make their townieness as transparent as possible?

[Zyf]

@Zyf: You don't really have to unvote... Just when I began to like your vote.
[/v]Sickofit1138VOTE: Sick of it.

What's your mafia experience level?

[Zyf]

VOTE: rascolnikov
Let's get the experienced people talking; they'll probably be less lurky.

[Zyf]

Also, just a mafia pattern question: in higher level play, do Town-aligned people purposely act slightly scummy to avoid getting lynched or do they try and make it as clear as possible that they aren't mafia.

Some do, quite a few have playstyles that'd make you think they did even though to them they don't, but by and large...most players just act natural. If they're naturally nightkill bait, good for them. If not, potentially still good for them if they can swing a lynch onto scum.

Actually, here. VOTE: beeboy
Since you're SE: why're you pulling out the 'innocent newb' card?

You caught me, awww shucks!

I thought that if I could convince you all I don't have dozens of mafia games you would treat me as a beginner and could coast to the end game.

Seeing this, I feel slightly more comfortable, though I just don't like the sarcasm here...I just feel like a townie would be more inclined to say something a little less...shifty?

[Zyf]

@Zyf: You don't really have to unvote... Just when I began to like your vote.
[/v]Sickofit1138VOTE: Sick of it.

The defense makes sense
especially now considering their relationship
my main issue is with the sarcastic message that came after; however, I feel it's too early to really make any pushes, and right now my vote is better spent on an inactive person (especially an SE, who'll have more experience) to get a valid conversation going?

[Zyf]

Senpai please teach me ;-;

<3

I think that, as far as how I'll IC, the best way in general will just be to let things be unless I see an obvious need to intervene, e.g. if a newbie expects to seriously no-lynch on D1 I'd need to tell them why we don't do that.

Also, I know you know the answer to this, but no spoilers. I want the newbs here to think about this:
{beeboy}
{dvds}
{Zyf, sad}

Ohhhh, those are your reads!
Are those scum, null, and town, respectively?

Agree with those for the most part, although I'd put sad in null because they wanted me to vote beeboy but then went on to vote for sickofit instead, without posting any logic. I can only

assume

it was because he wanted to have more people active in-thread.
Sad–explanation?

[Zyf]

Liking zyf here. Beeboys response reads fairly relaxed though I don't know how good as scum he is.

{beeboy}
{dvds}
{Zyf, sad}

How is zyf at the bottom here?

Yay a friend
I think ranger just does it the other way 'round.
Explanation for your vote on ranger would be nice.
UNVOTE: raskolnikov VOTE: f-oh-ex
Because activity is always helpful
Also is there any "nickname" of sorts I can use for your name?

[Zyf]

You can call me rask
Ranger always does it from town to scum, though it's a bit annoying because you don't know how strong the extremes of the list are at any given point.
Not particularly scumreading anyone atm but poking her is necessary.

Ok.
Well yeah, it is odd that she scumreads 2 and townreads 1.
Ugh, just lost a (relatively insubstantial) post. Thanks touchscreens.
Anyway, does the attitude of wanting to "coast" work as a VT? I wouldn't think so on my own since townie's goal is to find mafia, which requires discussion, right?

What about you? Experience level in mafia? Have you played pre-forum signup?

[Zyf]

Boo!
VOTE: Sad

...no explanation?
Particularly interested in your reads on beeboy and ranger, in that order.

[Zyf]

Wait, did you unvote me because I townread you?

No, I unvoted you because the purpose of he vote was to get you to talk.
In case you haven't noticed yet, I'm just voting people who haven't posted.
I chose you first since as an SE you'd have more experience, and then Fox becuase sick had already been voted.

Stupid touchscreen typos

[Zyf]

OMGUS.

I hAve null on both, I need to get some more info before I'm ready to make a solid read.

Def agree we need some more talking.
What do you think of rask's alignment?
I'm slightly leaning town.

[Zyf]

Noticing that ranger's active in a different thread right now but ignoring this one.
So while I don't think that's enough evidence to bring someone to L-2, I would like some explanation, as an inactive IC is not exactly helping out.

[Zyf]

VOTE: Raskolnikov

?

Double ?
Also because I'm too lazy to go back and quote rask's response to my question...
UNVOTE: f-oh-ex VOTE: beeboy
Firstly because I now have more support for my reasoning against the inactive coasty townie, and becuase beeboy is voting someone I'm reading as town without giving me info to hink otherwise

Anyway, to sick:
See first page
And username because...idek imo it sounds cool
Honestly I'm reading sick as nullscum due to a path towards less helpful/relevant discussion and because there appears to be a lack of reading the thread.
Then again it could be newbness on one (or both) of our parts.
Note: did read rask's post before posting, so I agree with 'em

[Zyf]

VOTE: Raskolnikov

My biggest question is if it's a sort of omgus why them instead of me?

[Zyf]

Anyway, I've gtg now. G'night.
Oh goddangit beeboy posted
1) right but at first i thought it was because you didn't like their response to the coasting thing or something
2) your meaning rask's right? If so, I think that's fair logic but it's not like rask just said "ranger pls post;" at least they voted, which I certainly have been a little less comfortable with. It's just not a strong enough reaction for me, but I'll keep that in mind.
Ok for real now, gnight
Fhwicjwj Ranger y

Hey, I'm sorry, wasn't aware you were that bustling. Good to know.
A couple of questions:
1) What is the benefit for town if you deliberately withhold the strength of your reads? It just makes it harder for us.
2) Why was beeboy in townie for you before they even really made a meaningful analytical post? (This is at the beginning of the game?)

Ok. Like actually tho. I'm going.

[Zyf]

Oh and one more thing:
Why in the world is sad scum if they've only posted once-at the beginning of the game?

[Zyf]

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

I have to agree–reading sad as scum with one post is a little discomforting.
F-oh-ex, ayale, and dvds all have yet to make meaningful posts, so while I have a suspicion that one poster among us is scum, I hesitate to make pushes for 2 players being scum.
For now:
Null-Town: Rask-although not by much, they do seem to be posting in the interest of the town, and do not appear to have any biases whatsoever.
Null: the postless ones-obvious; sad-they haven't posted much, just a post in their defense. However their logic is something I do agree with and would like some explanation on.
Null-Scum: beeboy-I still don't fully trust you. The fact that ranger put you as town when you hadn't even really posted bothers me, too;
Sickofit-you've been throwing out a lot of stuff, but nothing has much written explanation attached to it (I have to prompt it from you every time). You're posting, but you're leading us nowhere with your posts. I'd like some explanations on your reads,

especially on sad.

Scum: Ranger-I'd like to trust you because you're IC, and you should be guiding the game, but in a game where putting down as much information early on as possible is valuable for an RVS lynch, I don't like you making us do the explaining first. Also, you seem to have some biases where they shouldn't be. I would like an

explanation for your reads on sad and beeboy, in that order.

Since we can request prod later on today anyway, the vote on the lurker is less valuable than getting my answers from Ranger.
UNVOTE: F-oh-ex and VOTE: Ranger
You're L-2 now.

[Zyf]

So I have been rereading the fourm and right now everyone is null for me as of the moment, since not alot of discussion has been going on and it has just been kinda chitchatting, have not been able to make out good reads on everyone yet.

Could you perhaps get a read on ranger?
We've been posting more than 'chitchat' and I'm wondering if I'm just being paranoid by reading them as scum.

[Zyf]

To me all of rangers posts have been more IC related than actual game stuff, so that is why to me I read her as null for now.

Hrm.
What's making you read me as null? Afaik I've been trying to get discussion going.

[Zyf]

Where are the rest of the players at?

Presumably work/school.
I'm not feeling well so I'm available all day
Altho exams start tomorrow e.e

Anyway, you have any reads? That will definitely help me out.

Btw, dvds remains null. I don't like that they have nothing to say, though.

[Zyf]

Task is still scum and you are still town.

What about ranger?
And sad? Do you read them as null or do you have a good explanation as to why you think they're scum?

[Zyf]

Sad and Ranger are null because nothing they have done stands out to me.

So then why do you think sad is being read as scum by /both/ ranger and sickofit?

[Zyf]

Because something stands out to them that I am clearly not seeing. (I literally only have cop out answers as these are null reads of mine)

I also want sickofit to explain his read first as I already know Ranger wouldn't commit herself to something she can't explain even as scum.

Yeah definitely agree on making sick explain first:
Right now it looks like ranger's scum and then sickofit is just agreeing to boost the argument, without a real argument of their own other than omgus, which at this stage could probably been changed.

Appreciating the (apparent) honesty here, so I think I'll move you back to null.

[Zyf]

@Zyf: You don't really have to unvote... Just when I began to like your vote.
[/v]Sickofit1138VOTE: Sick of it.

This right here.
This is the only post that could make sad appear scum to ranger.
Sad's only played one previous game on the forum, so I suppose it could be that they appeared to be egging me on? Imo that's more jumping to conclusions than me saying beeboy's (joking) deception and (slightly disconcerting) sarcasm were signs of a scum.

Whenever ranger gets back though, I do have one more question for her:
If you think sad is scum, why are you not only giving no explanation but on top of that not voting? That decreases the pressure and lessens the necessity to respond. It's best to get them to respond to find who mafia is by PoE, right?

[Zyf]

Seeing as how the word "lurker" was already used, let me make this my first thing to say, as might come important anyway.

I'm a European and my time zone often disagrees with those of most of the players. For example, the day 1 started at 11:09 p.m. for me. It's now 6 p.m. and as soon as I got back home, I decided to check mafiascum because I knew the game would start soon. And I'm already being called a lurker. LOLed.

VOTE: sad because I was in a game with him :^)

Will get to reading later, I'm dead tired.

Yeah sorry I figured the rest were in EU timezones. It wasn't meant to necessarily criticize you for sneaky play, just to get people going.
I'll be here pretty much the whole time for the next 9-10 hours so if you wanna get a good discussion going between the two of us feel free to post.

Anywho, I'm particularly interested in your reads on ranger, beeboy, and then sad (in that order, pls). If you could do those first that would be nice.

[Zyf]

this AYaLE_ person seems to have given up on the boards or something. Definitely will be requesting prod asap (I think that'd be at 9pm UTC)
Everyone else is now active tho.

Currently, I'm definitely not reading Fox as scum so I'm going to tentatively say Ranger-Sickofit scum team?
I'd like to hear their reads explained first before I go any further, but I'm struggling to decide which one I want to lynch...
Ranger is valuable as the IC but beeboy definitely also has enough experience to at least partially fill the role of the town investigation leader.
Sickofit on the other hand is a weaker read for me, it's just they seem to be trying to lead the conversation astray, they don't seem to be interested in giving valuable read explanations, and they read sad as scum because omgus...they just seem to be following ranger too closely...

Hrm...UNVOTE: ranger and VOTE: sickofit

Also, thanks fox, I'll hopefully see you in a bit.

[Zyf]

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

The last game I was in with her she was pretty actually apparent scum in that normally she wouldn't be completely misreading the game, assuming my own reads aren't off themselves. This isn't nearly as bad but still weird; I would expect her scumgame to be a lot better after that but then again this is hardly a red flag either. Ehh.

Do you think sickofit is following ranger as a scum team and that's why sick also didn't post their explanations?

Also to ranger: Unfortunately, deliberately not sharing your reads sets a precedent for the newbs like myself, so now I'm having difficulty reading sick as town, too. If everyone else follows your strategy, then we're basically toasted because no one can convince anyone else of...well...anything.

[Zyf]

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

You're arguing against early scumreads and fos and at the same time scumreading sick/ranger as a team?

I see what you're saying, but the difference is sad literally had posted once (on the first page) without any substantial thoughts yet ranger immediately read sad as scum. I think they took offense due to the one post + first page, not the fact that it's RVS rn.
That being said, I like your thinking. I'd like to put you in town.
Updated thoughts:
{Rask}
{...no one}
{beeboy, F o x, sad, Ayale}
{dvds-your lack of interest in getting any thoughts down bothers me, but it could easily be newb caution. Please, the more you put, the better it is for us as a town as a whole}
{Ranger, Sickofit}

[Zyf]

Do you think sickofit is following ranger as a scum team and that's why sick also didn't post their explanations?

Not really?
I didn't notice at the time but sad's opinion there reads omgusy against the two for scumreading him just prior.

True, true.
Anyway, gtg eat rn.

[Zyf]

I can see where the sad read comes from though.
Sad coming in at that point, questioning your unvote yet voting a nullslot after what had already happened was a little off.

ffff my hand why do tables have corners

The nullslot vote is off, that is true. I would've expected them to vote beeboy...or if not, maybe me. I guess I see where your coming from.
Only problem is that now if sick posts they can use your argument, even tho they may be lying. Urk.

[Zyf]

Nice, welcome aboard, Vandit.
Interested mostly on your reads on Rask, Ranger, and sickofit.
Your mafia experience?

[Zyf]

@Zyf: You don't really have to unvote... Just when I began to like your vote.
[/v]Sickofit1138VOTE: Sick of it.

This right here.
This is the only post that could make sad appear scum to ranger.
Sad's only played one previous game on the forum, so I suppose it could be that they appeared to be egging me on? Imo that's more jumping to conclusions than me saying beeboy's (joking) deception and (slightly disconcerting) sarcasm were signs of a scum.

Whenever ranger gets back though, I do have one more question for her:
If you think sad is scum, why are you not only giving no explanation but on top of that not voting? That decreases the pressure and lessens the necessity to respond. It's best to get them to respond to find who mafia is by PoE, right?

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

The last game I was in with her she was pretty actually apparent scum in that normally she wouldn't be completely misreading the game, assuming my own reads aren't off themselves. This isn't nearly as bad but still weird; I would expect her scumgame to be a lot better after that but then again this is hardly a red flag either. Ehh.

Do you think sickofit is following ranger as a scum team and that's why sick also didn't post their explanations?

Also to ranger: Unfortunately, deliberately not sharing your reads sets a precedent for the newbs like myself, so now I'm having difficulty reading sick as town, too. If everyone else follows your strategy, then we're basically toasted because no one can convince anyone else of...well...anything.

Whenever you get the time, ranger.

[Zyf]

*Mr. Lonely plays in background*
Whenever beeboy gets back:
Do you still read rask as scum?

[Zyf]

Sick, whenever you get back on, you'd better explain why you read sad as scum.

[Zyf]

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

VOTE: sad.

As soon as I'm caught up, I'll explain my reads.

If you think sad is scum, why are you not only giving no explanation but on top of that not voting?

I rarely vote often unless I'm participating in the RVS, because when I do my lists, votes are often a giveaway for the strength behind them.

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

I didn't say anything about not townreading them, now, did I?

*waits impatiently after 6 hours of no activity*

[Zyf]

Beeboy once posted a Ranger-style list, with me at the bottom. She is, however, not fosing me anymore. Worth an explanation.
Fox town. Zyf town (is this ur first game? Good job).
I am trying to get a meta on Ranger. Is this kind of list what he always use, his explanations before hand, etc...
Also, shouldnt ICs have a special post "hey,Im your IC which stands for inexperience-challenged......"

It's marked in the OP, so it's pretty clear.
Fun fact: ranger is a she XD

Also yeah this is my first maf game ever.

Anyway I hope you're on for when ranger explains their scumread.

Fox: still waiting on that post with the reads. It's been a while, but if you were busy, then it's fine.

[Zyf]

Ranger: Ok, thank you /so/ much for finally posting that.
Now that that's been all explained you're definitely in null for me.

As for my playstyle, is the inconsistency what's bothering you?

If so, it's mainly probably because...well, I've been home sick these past few days and whenever I'm not studying for my exams tomorrow I've been here. So I've had a LOT of time to think. However, I do think it works to my advantage in a day one scenario as it gives me the freedom to nudge people in all directions.
A substantial amount of my changed reads come from posts that make people appear more town.

So here's my question to you:
What's your thoughts on sick's reads that came directly after yours?

[Zyf]

Yeah I think it's the flighty play that's bothering you, and it's definitely because I've been getting impatient.

A good number of those posts come from my lack of confidence in my own reads, especially considering that, y'know, the IC in the thread has the complete opposite thought process as me. XD

[Zyf]

Sad, response?

[Zyf]

Beeboy, what are your reads as of now?

In fact, what are everyone's reads right now, because as far as I can tell it's a giant jumbled mix of different thoughts.
For the most part, all I get is that I've been tentatively established as not scum for now (meaning I'm a possible NK candidate) and sad is appearing scum to everyone else but me due to a lot of inconsistencies.

[Zyf]

Hey

@Zaicon

do mafia get time to coordinate strats before the game starts or do they go in blind?

[Zyf]

Yo where did everyone go

[Zyf]

@Zaicon..i voted beeboy above but the code didnt work

Use brackets

Also guys we have a problem because they could be day 1 bussing. Crud, that makes my life a lot harder.

Vandit, can you specifically pinpoint what bothers you about beeboy's play?

[Zyf]

Valid, and I agree with you there.
Unfortunately, others have articulated that the laid back "goofy" manner is a sign of a townie...
idk

What are your reads on ranger and rask?

[Zyf]

I think that either sad is scum, or one of the 3 people voting for sad are probably scum. Otherwise scum probably could've used their 2 votes to hammer sad, or at least put them at L-1 and force a claim. Hrm.

[Zyf]

Vandit, what's your experience playing mafia? Just wondering.
Anyway, after reading thru some other beeboy posts, I'm relatively convinced their attitude wasn't scummy. They seem to have a playful attitude overall.

[Zyf]

Sick why did you read sad as scum?

[Zyf]

Wait a minute. The 'I am relatively convinced their attitude wasn't scummy. They seem to have a playful attitude' message referring to Sad and Ranger??;or you are referring to beeboy's posts as 'their'
. If you are referring to beeboy, then my repllay to that is ALRIGHT OK. But if you are referring yo Sad and Ranger whom i just gave my views on, then you are repeating the same stuff that i said. I said their activities are not scummy and are not suspicious atleast to me along with the reason i just stated in post #109 and #110

It was towards beeboy

Also you haven't told me maf experience. THis is my first game and experience gauging helps me figure out who to trust most

[Zyf]

Oh whoops sorry didn't see that.
I'm still waiting for an explanation on your sad read.
I'm much more interested in your logic from back then than from now.

[Zyf]

I'm feeling decent focus onto me and what actually reads as some paranoia from ranger. Honestly flattering

I'd have zyf above beeboy considering beeboys more tonal and very experienced vs newb obvtown, but other than that. Mmm

Newb obvtowns more likely to get nk'ed, afaik.
Whatever, we've got time.
I think that ranger's problem with me is the same as the problem with sad: inconsistency.
Mine's mostly due to getting antsy.
I can guarantee the same will /not/ be happening irl tomorrow.

I want to trust you as town, but absolute trust usually doesn't work out...
Btw, reading Vandit as town. You?

[Zyf]

I'm feeling decent focus onto me and what actually reads as some paranoia from ranger. Honestly flattering

I'd have zyf above beeboy considering beeboys more tonal and very experienced vs newb obvtown, but other than that. Mmm

There will eventually be reads on almost all of us before any lynches take place. That is why those who have showed that they support random lynches in the first scenario by voting again and again over sad, starting a wagon. They just might be mafia and wont they just be happy seeing townies random lynching each other and laughing themselves.

So from the 3 and their defenses (or lack thereof):
Ranger
Sad
Sickofit

Who seems the scummiest?
Not to ignore everyone else but I'm pretty sure at least one of them is mafia.

[Zyf]

The problem with voting sad right now is that it puts them at L1.
That rushes the game-and the thing is that human nature makes prolonged deception exponentially harder as time goes on.

Anyway, I'm going to bed.
Hopefully in the morning I'll have:
Beeboy's response to sickofit's reads/activity
Sickofit's explanation for why they scumread sad at the time.

[Zyf]

Alright, here's my last post for tonight.
Isolating sad's and sickofit's posts separately, I've found that, regardless of my urging, neither of them have contributed anythign of real value.
However, while sad's simply been haphazardly defending themself and weakly counterattackig, sick seems to be deliberately leading the town astray:

I do like what be seen some rask.

I definitely would like some more conversation to hop onto.

So 2 questions:
1. Why did you choose your username?
2. How long have you had a general experience in mafia? (Not necessarily just this site)

While the second question makes a decent amount of sense (although it's bascially a copy of mine one post prior), the first one is random, and leads the discussion down a rather time-wasting path that has a very low chance of ending with any mafia-related information gained.

If you must know.

Zyf: Null-town.
Rask: Null-town
Ranger: Null
DVD: Null
Sad: Null-scum.
Beeboy: Null-scum.

First off, the "if you must know" shows signs of reluctance. Also, no one really had asked for their reads in the first place (although reads are always nice, the attitude of presumbaly understanding ranger to want others to post reads-rather than analyzing ranger's, seems off). Finally, the votes have no background or explained logic behind them, and do mimic ranger's thoughts a lot (with only slight shifts), although the mimic could be due to similar natural thought process.
So yeah, to me, even though sad is far from in the clear, sickofit seems scummier to me.

PEdit: what exactly about 112, rask?

[Zyf]

is the inconsistency what's bothering you?

If I had to put a phrase to it, it'd actually more be your extreme eagerness to please.

What's your thoughts on sick's reads that came directly after yours?

Nulltown. He didn't give much of anything, though seeing what his reads are, they mostly line up with a lot of what I'm seeing loosely, which is usually a good sign.

1) OK, now that one's 100% due to having nothing else to do and getting antsy. Someone did show me how to get site chat up so that helped.
In my own defense, aside from beeboy, I haven't been only pushing from one direction to get someone lynched, but rather been trying to get the people I trust to have good analysis post their thoughts to help out.

2) My issue is with what you find a good sign: for a read list that is very similar to yours, I find it an odd pattern that they were posted directly after yours AND have no explanations attached to them. Unfortunately, since I ended up getting your explanations first, sick may leech off of them for their own benefit.

Question:
How likely do you think it is that scum is bussing day 1?

[Zyf]

As an IC, I can't help but feel very guilty.
I kind-of feel like we've got a dual-newbie scumteam of {sad, Vandit}, which as a newbie is an absolutely

horrible

place to be. It really feels like they're both scum, who don't yet know what they're supposed to be doing.

And if I happen to be right about you two, preemptively, I have to say...sorry. <3

If I'm right, in postgame, I'll try to give you advice to play better, but for now, I would ask you not to quit even though you two are my main suspicions.

I...find myself not trusting this.
The appeal to pity feels...forced?
I can't put my finger on it, but something's off. It's like,

too

gushing or something.

So, here are my views on what'll happen:
1) Lynch sad1492:
If they flip scum, then I'll feel much better about ranger and sickofit.
If they flip town, however...beeboy can definitely be more trusted and first place I'm pointing fingers is a ranger+sickofit scumteam.
2) Lynch sickofit-This is my ideal situation, as I think we'll get more 'mixed' or changing reaction out of this lynch; lynching sad is just that: a lynch. Unless sad claims for themself, their partner is highly unlikely to try and pull them out as it's very suspicious. Sickofit is a bit shakier and more discreet, and will be better for the discussion. Predictions on sick lynch:
If they flip scum, there are multiple people (ranger, apparently vandit, sad could still be scum, etc.) who could be their partners, but we'll have leads to start our investigation from the mess before the actual lynch.
If they flip town, then it'll completely change who I'm looking for. Ranger can be more trusted, and sad is gonna look more scummy for pushing sick and opposing them. Granted, it's mostly been me, but look at Sick's iso for yourself. It looks a lot like someone who's trying to fit in with whatever's going on at the time-without actually contributing anything.
3) Lynch Ranger-right now this is the riskiest one, because if they flip town we're in big trouble because we lost one of the main contributors to the discussions. And they have more experience than say, me.
If they flip scum, however, my first suspicions will be towards sick again. Followed by sad for a possible day 1 bus tactic.
If they flip town, like I said, it's really dangerous.

I'm leaning pretty much solely on option 2 because I think it will yield more than any of the other paths.

Those are the only 3 people I'm interested in lynching right now, anyway.

[Zyf]

Lets just do 1 thing..how about we just call out people whom we have suspicion on. And if somebody is common is everyone's suspicion, and just hear his defense. That surely can help in getting leads

Vandit, I appreciate your fervor for getting some answers, but go through some isos, see what you find.

While it's great to hear everyone's thoughts as a democracy, your thoughts if you do that for us are worth 10x as much as the guy who pops on, reads one guy, then leaves immediately, without any thorough research.

Regardless, if you keep telling other people to post without contributing much of your own, it gets a little weird. A lot of what you've said is really just explaining how the game works. You've contributed some, but you could be even more helpful with some solid evidence.

PEdit-What exactly in there did you address? It's confusing because you post like a sentence per reply then do that 8 times. Chill, this isn't epicmafia, you've got time to consolidate your thoughts.

[Zyf]

Oh, you addressed the deception behind the appeal. SO what about the second chunk? Thoughts? Would appreciate an Iso first tho.

[Zyf]

In the case if sickofit, he is my biggest suspect right now. Sad is my second option to lynch because which kind of mafia doesnt prepare for his defense and gives people that opportunity so he gets on everybody's suspicion list..

All right, now we're getting somewhere!

Although that's pretty much what I said, it's good to see that I'm not alone in my thoughts. You gonna push sick to L-2 or are you going to save your vote?

PEdit-An iso is when you read one poster's stuff in isolation: you can do it by clicking the "ISO" in parenthesis next to the post #.

[Zyf]

Quote of Post 0 Removed ~Zaicon

You know what.. i am going to vote now.. VOTE: Raskolnikov
Now Reason-
I am not voting Sickofit as that guy might be having some troubles and not being able to post here but he is ACTUALLY being FEARLESS by not debating much here too and knowning that it would inflict suspicion on him. He also might be doing that so people like i am and wont actually vote him but dude..THAT TOO risky (espicially in a newbie match). That also might be the reason because he is knowning of himself being a Townie or either having a role of either being a Strong Townie player that functions at night and would kill the mafia/ cripple it (like jailkeeper).

Now why i voted rask??
If you actually see his posts like 3-4 times you will get that those arent strong ones and werent even goofy ones and were really WEAK ONES. Now even a mafia guy can do some strong discussion but there would easily be suspicion by seeing his tone, views on others, etc. factors which actually beeboy did very good, so a bit less suspicion. Now rask, if you would notice his posts in earlier were very worried about votes on him. He was actually worried about a wagon of votes and random lynch that could happen to him. Plus when zyf was getting even a little suspicious about him (which he is about everyone) he was the one who came out talking about him that its all turning on him etc. NOW THATS A LEAD atleast.

OK, this is some good stuff. Could you give the quotes of the actual rask posts?

[Zyf]

I am working on giving my explanations, I have some busy days coming up and I will be on not as much as I will like but I will definitely get up what I can.

I dont trust a guy who says he is busy and has that much time to open mafia, post this, and just leave. So we dont bother about him for some days which gets him time and he starts to kill in night time.

Yeah, agree with you there. Seems like an "I'm waiting to come up with a good excuse" post.
It should take you approx. 1 minute to explain why you made the reads you did in the past.

I asked him why he read sad as scum

as of his first read list,

not as of that point in time where he posted that ^

[Zyf]

All right, I'm gone for the next 6+ hours. Good luck with iso's and other thoughts, vandit.

[Zyf]

Part 2: pages 3-4

If you must know.

Zyf: Null-town.
Rask: Null-town
Ranger: Null
DVD: Null
Sad: Null-scum.
Beeboy: Null-scum.

A bunch of reads with no comment. From a person who barely writes anything game-related. You'll forgive me if I don't consider these very seriously.

Also, sudden scumreads on Sad are noted.

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

Probably a hasty opinion but a valuable post. Sad was also in my first newbie so I'll try to use that to read him.

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

I have to agree–reading sad as scum with one post is a little discomforting.
F-oh-ex, ayale, and dvds all have yet to make meaningful posts, so while I have a suspicion that one poster among us is scum, I hesitate to make pushes for 2 players being scum.
For now:
Null-Town: Rask-although not by much, they do seem to be posting in the interest of the town, and do not appear to have any biases whatsoever.

"any biases whatsoever", ah, language is important and this is a very strong emphasis. Let me pull up 2 posts.

Liking zyf here. Beeboys response reads fairly relaxed though I don't know how good as scum he is.

{beeboy}
{dvds}
{Zyf, sad}

How is zyf at the bottom here?

{zyf}
{beeboy, dvds}
{ranger, sad}

Rodion (may I call you Rodion?) seems to care a lot about zyf - first pointing out his low position in Ranger's bracket list, then putting him on top of his own. That makes Zyf's praise look suspicious to me.

So I have been rereading the fourm and right now everyone is null for me as of the moment, since not alot of discussion has been going on and it has just been kinda chitchatting, have not been able to make out good reads on everyone yet.

Could you perhaps get a read on ranger?
We've been posting more than 'chitchat' and I'm wondering if I'm just being paranoid by reading them as scum.

Awfully pushy.

To me all of rangers posts have been more IC related than actual game stuff, so that is why to me I read her as null for now.

Ditto. Ranger seems to be a good IC so far but no actual alignment read from me.

To me all of rangers posts have been more IC related than actual game stuff, so that is why to me I read her as null for now.

Hrm.
What's making you read me as null? Afaik I've been trying to get discussion going.

I don't like people who immediately jump with "But I did this and that, you should townread me!".

Task is still scum and you are still town.

What about ranger?
And sad? Do you read them as null or do you have a good explanation as to why you think they're scum?

1. Again pushing about opinion on Ranger.
2. Take a look at the last questions. It's an awfully loaded question:

Do you have a null read on them or do you scumread them with a good explanation?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. I don't like that.

Sad and Ranger are null because nothing they have done stands out to me.

So then why do you think sad is being read as scum by /both/ ranger and sickofit?

Asking a person X why people A and B both scumread a person L is a pretty bad question. Especially at this stage of game. Especially when the person B (sickofit) made no meaningful posts so far.

What Zyf is trying do to here is: "two people scumread him, come on, you can't have a null read on him". Compare with what I said about his previous post, just above.

Because something stands out to them that I am clearly not seeing. (I literally only have cop out answers as these are null reads of mine)

I also want sickofit to explain his read first as I already know Ranger wouldn't commit herself to something she can't explain even as scum.

Yeah definitely agree on making sick explain first

:
Right now it looks like ranger's scum and then sickofit is just agreeing to boost the argument, without a real argument of their own other than omgus, which at this stage could probably been changed.

Appreciating the (apparent) honesty here, so I think I'll move you back to null.

I don't like how arbitrarily you call Ranger and sad (more or less directly) scum and then brush off what sickofit is doing, even if you yourself analyse it as bad.

Bold because it will be important in a second.

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

The last game I was in with her she was pretty actually apparent scum in that normally she wouldn't be completely misreading the game, assuming my own reads aren't off themselves. This isn't nearly as bad but still weird; I would expect her scumgame to be a lot better after that but then again this is hardly a red flag either. Ehh.

Noted but not much comment at this time - meta and "too obvious" are a load of WIFOM in Newbies.

Currently, I'm definitely not reading Fox as scum so I'm going to tentatively say Ranger-Sickofit scum team?

I'd like to hear their reads explained first before I go any furthe

r, but I'm struggling to decide which one I want to lynch...
Sickofit on the other hand is a weaker read for me, it's just they seem to be trying to lead the conversation astray, they don't seem to be interested in giving valuable read explanations,

and they read sad as scum because omgus

...they just seem to be following ranger too closely...

Hrm...UNVOTE: ranger and VOTE: sickofit

Also, thanks fox, I'll hopefully see you in a bit.

So Zyf was asking question "why do you think sickofit and Ranger scumread sad", then says twice that he wants sickofit to explain his read, then he jumps to saying "sickofit scumreads sad because omgus".
1. Sickofit never got to explaining his read.
2. You're inconsinstent.

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

The last game I was in with her she was pretty actually apparent scum in that normally she wouldn't be completely misreading the game, assuming my own reads aren't off themselves. This isn't nearly as bad but still weird; I would expect her scumgame to be a lot better after that but then again this is hardly a red flag either. Ehh.

Do you think sickofit is following ranger as a scum team and that's why sick also didn't post their explanations?

Also to ranger: Unfortunately, deliberately not sharing your reads sets a precedent for the newbs like myself, so now I'm having difficulty reading sick as town, too. If everyone else follows your strategy, then we're basically toasted because no one can convince anyone else of...well...anything.

OBJECTION! Leading the witness!

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

You're arguing against early scumreads and fos and at the same time scumreading sick/ranger as a team?

I see what you're saying, but the difference is sad literally had posted once (on the first page) without any substantial thoughts yet ranger immediately read sad as scum. I think they took offense due to the one post + first page, not the fact that it's RVS rn.

That being said, I like your thinking. I'd like to put you in town.

Updated thoughts:
{Rask}
{...no one}
{beeboy, F o x, sad, Ayale}
{dvds-your lack of interest in getting any thoughts down bothers me, but it could easily be newb caution. Please, the more you put, the better it is for us as a town as a whole}
{Ranger, Sickofit}

Second praising of Rask btw. Also, me and Ayale in the same bracket as beeboy and sad? That's just... wrong. I made like 2 posts at the time and Ayale made none.

Nice, welcome aboard, Vandit.
Interested mostly on your reads on Rask, Ranger, and sickofit.
Your mafia experience?

Not sad this time? Trying to strengthen general scumread on Ranger and sickofit and townread on Rask?

Note that at this point I'm scumreading Zyf already so I might be prone to tunnelling. Asking about one's strongest reads isn't necessarily scummy... but Zyf keeps rubbing me wrong.

*Mr. Lonely plays in background*
Whenever beeboy gets back:
Do you still read rask as scum?

Awwwwwwwww, you care so much about how other people view Rask! It's so cute!

Sick, whenever you get back on, you'd better explain why you read sad as scum.

You already answered that question yourself.

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

I didn't say anything about not townreading them, now, did I?

Hm, so is Rask pushing people townreading Zyf?

Yo where did everyone go

They went to clean the floor after the flood.

Get it? Because you wrote 6 posts in a row?

Oh boy, here we go.

I'm going to go through everything you've pointed out here, which is really good and I see what you mean, as put together like that, I do look scummy due to inconsistency and impatience. I'm glad you're coming in at this stage
So before I say anything else, 2 things:
1) Townreading fox for solid reads on multiple people with convincing evidence to back it up.
2) I was bored as **** these past 2 days because I was sick and the only other option was to study (and lets be honest no one likes doing that for 18 hours). I had this tab open the ENTIRE 48 HOURS. Probably not the smartest idea.

Now, onto my defense.

1) You yourself note that sickofit's reads with no explanation are odd. I took it a step further recognizing the fact that a lot of the reads lined up with Ranger's, neither of which had explanations. I was suspicious, as you can probably tell, that sick was mimicking ranger with the intent of pushing those reads into a more consolidated state to push sad as scum and set those two together up nicely.

2) In response to "buddying up" with rask: As of that point in time, I was glad to have someone else posting at all. So gimmie a sec here...
Yep I think I was mainly relieved to see that someone wasn't kicking me down and that there was finally some useful activity above jokevoting. Yep. Stupid move on my part.
However, everyone else, which they were questioning, seemed to be not overwhelmingly towards any particular person.

3) I didn't want to "brush off" sickofit, I was just putting down my thoughts for possible explanations, wondering if anyone else agreed. It wasn't a confident stride towards anything. In fact, if you pull up this:

OMGUS.

I hAve null on both, I need to get some more info before I'm ready to make a solid read.

You'll see that Sickofit gave some sort of reason for at least voting. As time went on, if you keep reading you'll find I eventually figure out that's not a good reason for a READ.
Again, my inconsistency was mainly due to having a lot of thinking time.
Like a lot.
I even made a diagram of everyone's read and it's confusing as ****. Mafia is hard, jeez.
4) Alright, for the most part everything else seems to be indicating that I'm scummy for being to pushy and for biasing my thoughts.
Those two are mainly due to (1) Again way too much time and (2) I was actually trying to see other's opinions in fear of tunneling too hard. The reason I kept asking whether people thought ranger/sick scum team and rask town was because I was worried I was tunneling too far down that path and that was gonna prevent me from changing. For example, I'm now more null to ranger. For the most part it's due to the fact that I've never really played mafia before and so I was worried my reads were completely out of whack, especially since someone like the IC in the thread thought essentially the exact opposite of me.

If you don't believe I had a lot of time, I can POST the picture of the diagram.
DIAGRAM:

Not to push you to skip my other stuff, in fact, please don't as that looks bad for both of us, but for my main consolidated, confident ideas, here they are:

Alright, here's my last post for tonight.
Isolating sad's and sickofit's posts separately, I've found that, regardless of my urging, neither of them have contributed anythign of real value.
However, while sad's simply been haphazardly defending themself and weakly counterattackig, sick seems to be deliberately leading the town astray:

I do like what be seen some rask.

I definitely would like some more conversation to hop onto.

So 2 questions:
1. Why did you choose your username?
2. How long have you had a general experience in mafia? (Not necessarily just this site)

While the second question makes a decent amount of sense (although it's bascially a copy of mine one post prior), the first one is random, and leads the discussion down a rather time-wasting path that has a very low chance of ending with any mafia-related information gained.

If you must know.

Zyf: Null-town.
Rask: Null-town
Ranger: Null
DVD: Null
Sad: Null-scum.
Beeboy: Null-scum.

First off, the "if you must know" shows signs of reluctance. Also, no one really had asked for their reads in the first place (although reads are always nice, the attitude of presumbaly understanding ranger to want others to post reads-rather than analyzing ranger's, seems off). Finally, the votes have no background or explained logic behind them, and do mimic ranger's thoughts a lot (with only slight shifts), although the mimic could be due to similar natural thought process.
So yeah, to me, even though sad is far from in the clear, sickofit seems scummier to me.

PEdit: what exactly about 112, rask?

As an IC, I can't help but feel very guilty.
I kind-of feel like we've got a dual-newbie scumteam of {sad, Vandit}, which as a newbie is an absolutely

horrible

place to be. It really feels like they're both scum, who don't yet know what they're supposed to be doing.

And if I happen to be right about you two, preemptively, I have to say...sorry. <3

If I'm right, in postgame, I'll try to give you advice to play better, but for now, I would ask you not to quit even though you two are my main suspicions.

I...find myself not trusting this.
The appeal to pity feels...forced?
I can't put my finger on it, but something's off. It's like,

too

gushing or something.

So, here are my views on what'll happen:
1) Lynch sad1492:
If they flip scum, then I'll feel much better about ranger and sickofit.
If they flip town, however...beeboy can definitely be more trusted and first place I'm pointing fingers is a ranger+sickofit scumteam.
2) Lynch sickofit-This is my ideal situation, as I think we'll get more 'mixed' or changing reaction out of this lynch; lynching sad is just that: a lynch. Unless sad claims for themself, their partner is highly unlikely to try and pull them out as it's very suspicious. Sickofit is a bit shakier and more discreet, and will be better for the discussion. Predictions on sick lynch:
If they flip scum, there are multiple people (ranger, apparently vandit, sad could still be scum, etc.) who could be their partners, but we'll have leads to start our investigation from the mess before the actual lynch.
If they flip town, then it'll completely change who I'm looking for. Ranger can be more trusted, and sad is gonna look more scummy for pushing sick and opposing them. Granted, it's mostly been me, but look at Sick's iso for yourself. It looks a lot like someone who's trying to fit in with whatever's going on at the time-without actually contributing anything.
3) Lynch Ranger-right now this is the riskiest one, because if they flip town we're in big trouble because we lost one of the main contributors to the discussions. And they have more experience than say, me.
If they flip scum, however, my first suspicions will be towards sick again. Followed by sad for a possible day 1 bus tactic.
If they flip town, like I said, it's really dangerous.

I'm leaning pretty much solely on option 2 because I think it will yield more than any of the other paths.

Those are the only 3 people I'm interested in lynching right now, anyway.

And finally, my updated reads, cuz those are always useful. Let me know if you want explanation on one or two specific ones
Town: Rask, Fox
Nulltown: Vandit
Null: Beeboy, Ranger, dvds
Nullscum: sad (you guys are all bringing up good arguments and sad isn't even defending themselves)
Scum: Sickofit

[Zyf]

Oh I forgot to mention the whole thing about "you should townread me"
is actually "What did I do wrong please tell me so I have a chance to defend myself."
Like I just did in what I just posted. I gave my reasons for everything so that it's clear that I'm /not/ interested in hiding anything.

[Zyf]

Don't wanna respond to everything in one go. This was more of a "first impressions". I'll reevaluate my responses and respond to the rest after I've read the game a few times.

If you feel my manner is inefficient and hard to read, do say so, and I'll try to come up with a different form.

No, no, this is really good. You're making some good observations and it's very helpful to see someone go through the whole thing in chronological order.

You do you man.

[Zyf]

Ok so I'm gonna ask this one last time since it seems to keep getting buried:
What are the odds that mafia is bussing on day 1?

[Zyf]

By giving them, yet not explaining them, it allows me to share my thoughts without immediately sharing my thoughts

WIFOOOOOOMMMMMM

As soon as I'm caught up, I'll explain my reads.[/quote
And you said you would let people guess... This is quite obvious, Ranger is trying to fos me and at the same time withholding all information on why. But in the end town proved smart enough(somewhat) to not just blatantly follow his lead, so he is forced to actually come up with something.

...people please.
Ranger is a she.

[Zyf]

VOTE: Vandit

That reaction to ranger is horrendous. Attacks her more for being useless and/or wrong than being scum which carries an alignment assumption with it and reads caught-for-wrong reasons.
Instead of either then accusing ranger or trying to figure it out he tries to end the discussion and change the subject entirely? 148 appears to be trying to deflect in what he thinks is a towny way but is pretty absurd in context.

Vote on me is bizarrely reasoned and straight up wtf than anything else; unvoting to vote sickofit with no new posts from either of us is completely inexplicable as well and worse.
Top scumread is sickofit for promising content and then not delivering (112) which I assume was his attention was brought to by my brief mention of it but that's a really shallow scumread.
Having sickofit as his vote and sad as his second lynch after his interaction with ranger and 165 166 which casts shade here is extremely hard to believe given what his sickofit read basis is vs all the content from ranger and sad this game to have looked at.

Focus and reads even line up with sad partner iow what I think ranger's getting at. 110 and 124 is tone defence and dismisses the wagon as random but after ranger posts her vandit/sad he changes sad to his number 2 lynch option ahead of ranger in 152 inexplicably. Vandit having these lynch priorities and not voting ranger despite casting a ton of shade there along with the sad suspicion voiced reads distancing and not wanting to vote with sad here. The sickofit vote could be an appeal to zyf and me as we townread vandit and expressed interest there, but also possibly random onto what looks like an easy slot. The partner association isn't quite as surefire though and this could potentially be with someone else here, but is definitely the most likely combination here. Given the way he treated ranger I can also see a bizarre world here where he's with ranger and ranger potentially lynches sad to clear him although this is almost certainly overthinking it

Entrance tone read really eager, but this posting is, no exaggeration, the scummiest I have ever seen here. I am a touch disappointed if it is van/sad and this is all there is to this game, but given the playerlist here I'm not sure if newbie/newbie ever would have stood a chance as ranger said.

So uhm for your first paragraph
Have you ever played on epicmafia before?
Because on epicmafia everyone's in a big fat hurry.
Games last an average of 10 minutes, just to give you an idea.

After that though, thanks for pointing out the appeal.

However, some of your typos are confusing me. Who are you saying vandit's scum with?

[Zyf]

Mafia bussing day 1 is rare, especially in newbies with the 2 person scumteam.
But it's not really bussing unless they actually go through with the lynch; it's really common for scum to scumread another and push until switching to another wagon.
Until the lynch actually goes through you can't really rule out distancing, especially if its someone who has a lot of influence and could comfortably control the deadline wagon.

Ok.
Thanks.

DnD I'm gonna go iso everyone and make another chart with everyone's most updated reads

[Zyf]

vandit/sad >>>> vandit/ranger or dvds > vandit/??? but the first is overwhelmingly likely.

That looks a lot like you're reading based on (level of lurk)*(use of comments)/(disparity between reads)

[Zyf]

Go wild, guys.


PEdit: from my 2 days of play there, yeah. People push and make decisions in 1-2 minutes, so anything useless is immediately flagged.
Either that or everyone just memes and eventually get a completely random vote up.

The fiery attitude def comes from EM tho

[Zyf]

Epicmafia is cancer btw.

Why do you think I'm here

[Zyf]

so.
What if I do this.
UNVOTE: sick
VOTE: sad1492
We really need your reads, sad.
Since no one else is interested in voting sick, we'll get more out of sad as I can't put any more pressure on sick and they don't really seem to care.

Sad, you're now at L-1. Get talking.

[Zyf]

ok thank you
I needed that XD

[Zyf]

reason i dont like sad.

He has been lurking.
He has not been doing anything except defending his vote on me and he is not actively scumhunting.

Im completely convinced he is scum and i just need to find a buddy.

This is the pot calling the kettle black. Sick has done the same and in fact has even more outdated reads than sad.

What was it that convinced you to immediately scumread sad after his first post voting you?
At that point in time, no one could be accused of lurking.

Sad posted at around 7:45pm EDT on June 1nd.
You nullscum read him around 12:30am EDT June 2nd-less than 5 hours later.
That can hardly be called lurking, can it?

[Zyf]

Are you kdding me.
Vandit.
You just hammered sad.

You IDIOT! We didn't even get a claim!!

[Zyf]

Sad if you have something to post post now before you get lynched!!!!!!!!!

Anyway in case I get nk'ed you have this as my final thoughts (direct copy of post 149):
If they flip scum, then I'll feel much better about ranger and sickofit.
If they flip town, however...beeboy can definitely be more trusted and first place I'm pointing fingers is a ranger+sickofit scumteam.
2) Lynch sickofit-This is my ideal situation, as I think we'll get more 'mixed' or changing reaction out of this lynch; lynching sad is just that: a lynch. Unless sad claims for themself, their partner is highly unlikely to try and pull them out as it's very suspicious. Sickofit is a bit shakier and more discreet, and will be better for the discussion. Predictions on sick lynch:
If they flip scum, there are multiple people (ranger, apparently vandit, sad could still be scum, etc.) who could be their partners, but we'll have leads to start our investigation from the mess before the actual lynch.
If they flip town, then it'll completely change who I'm looking for. Ranger can be more trusted, and sad is gonna look more scummy for pushing sick and opposing them. Granted, it's mostly been me, but look at Sick's iso for yourself. It looks a lot like someone who's trying to fit in with whatever's going on at the time-without actually contributing anything.
3) Lynch Ranger-right now this is the riskiest one, because if they flip town we're in big trouble because we lost one of the main contributors to the discussions. And they have more experience than say, me.
If they flip scum, however, my first suspicions will be towards sick again. Followed by sad for a possible day 1 bus tactic.

[Zyf]

Whoops lost the first line. First line is "1) Lynch sad1492-"

[Zyf]

Anyone else have a "will" to write?

[Zyf]

Sorry guys feeling sick will read up later.

^^ thanks for the update.
I was getting a little concerned
btw welcome to the sick squad XD

[Zyf]

Ok beeboy, since it's too late for sad, most interested on your reads on Vandit, Sick, Rask, and Fox.
Keep in mind Vandit comes from a EM background

[Zyf]

Role claim?? Anyone??

Literally no point anymore. Sad has been majority voted.
In fact, your push for a random role claim is extremely scummy.
Now reading vandit as scum.

[Zyf]

Well usually, in Town of Salem, Epic Mafia all do role claims once majority votes have been posted

That's stupid in forum mafia as this is based on deep thought. Also both Epic Mafia and Town of Salem have a lot of PRs. In this matrix6 game we only have 2 PR's max in a 9-person game.

I'm seriously suspicious of you now, Vandit. It's like you're posting without thinking, putting up a weak defense. Granted, there's no point in voting you right now.

PEdit: sad didn't even get a chance to say "i'm town because *evidence*" or say "i'm cop/doctor/tracker/jailkeeper/etc."
You have them no chance to defend themselves, and I don't really like that you completely ignored this:

so.
What if I do this.
UNVOTE: sick
VOTE: sad1492
We really need your reads, sad.
Since no one else is interested in voting sick, we'll get more out of sad as I can't put any more pressure on sick and they don't really seem to care.

Sad, you're now at L-1. Get talking.

I even bolded it.
A lot of scum signs coming out of you right now...

[Zyf]

Vandit, a role claim coming out of sad means nothing if they've been majority voted. Their role is revealed after they die anyway. By not letting sad roleclaim before getting lynched, you may have ended up lynching a power role player.

I knew i shouldn't have put them at L1...urgh.

I'm starting to agree with vandit ranger scumteam

[Zyf]

You're scummy because I made it clear that I wanted answers, not a lynch. By lynching before sad returns, you deny me the valuable chance to get information on sad's reads-which may point to you or your partner as scum.
It makes sense, but it's quite blatant.
I find it extremely hard to believe that you think lynching someone gets answers: even in EM, when you get someone to majority vote, they're out. Done. Gonezo.

I think you're bluffing about "not knowing" lynching someone without answers is AWFUL.

[Zyf]

Beeboy..i dont know why, but once you say you are sick and wont be able to be here but i am seeing you online for a lot time right now..

In beeboy's defense making coherent reads when you're really under the weather is quite difficult.

[Zyf]

Oh crud. Uh guys this is bad. Ranger is dead. F***.
Iso time!

[Zyf]

Well that was unproductive.
So as far as I can tell, aside from me (VT) and Sad (dead), the only person ranger really pushed was Vandit.
I wouldn't be surprised if Vandit is scum. They hammered sad before we could get any information, and spent a lot of time finger pointing towards a lack of productivity rather than actual evidence even once they came into the game. Let's see here...
So, if there's distancing going on, Rask is the most viable option as the only person to scumread vandit aside from the late ranger and myself.
If it's bussing, the only other option is sick. Sick did attempt distancing in his first newbie match (where he was scum), but no bussing. That being said, if it's a double newbie vandit+sick team, sick will most likely be leading due to more mafiascum experience.
The one other person I'm a little suspicious of is Fox, as they sort of 'goofily' voted sad, but then they went through the thread and found a ton of evidence that they thought pointed towards a me+rask scumteam. However, they never changed their vote, and I don't know if that was deliberate, but I'm worried it was.
Perhaps we started with an inactive scumteam, and so we couldn't really get any solid pushes because everyone involved was town-aligned.
Honestly...I think with all of this evidence put down, it might actually be Fox as scum. Y'see, I put in a lot of pushes and other ideas into play, but Fox is the only person aside from Rask that I set as a townread. Since Ranger didn't really threaten many people, I'm thinking it was a vote based on the threat of ranger's experience. Thus, if scum was voting based on danger of getting pushed against, they would most likely vote for...me.
I can personally believe that rask and fox are a scumteam (as my only two townreads), and fox did a strategic town+scum "my scumteam" strategy to mask it and in turn pass of rask as town

by calling them scummy

.
Or maybe I'm just giving myself too much importance, since I'm talking a lot and unique roles (i.e. not a VT) usually don't do that.
Any case, let's get some discussion going! VOTE: F-oh-ex
Since I now trust rask slightly less than I would have hoped, the only experienced player left that I'm willing to put more trust into is beeboy. Seemed relatively honest and I see what ranger was going for with the tonal read (I can also now trust ranger's judgement). Beeboy, I hope you're feeling better. If you are, updated reads would be

gold

right now.

[Zyf]

Beeboy can you please explain your actions about what you were doing in the forums for like 20-30 minutes and i even recorded that you werent even in any other match too. Not the first time i have seen you, but since night 1 started after like 15 minutes you again came and lasted for long timr and then again i saw you being online later on for like solid 15 minutes and i can guarantee you have been costantly online before night 1 AND YOU ARE NOT EVEN IN ANY OTHER MATCH/MISH MASH OR JUST ANYTHING. I also saw Sickofit being online for long enough but he was playing chess in the Forum MishMash (i have recorded everything). I saw zyf here too many a times but just after night 1 started he went offline and also came after but it was only for like 5 minutes and that also rarely(this shows he isnt on hidden as why would he even appear after that for a single second). Beeboy didnt you say that you were sick too?? And even generally saying you havent even done any kind of scumhunting, not providing any leads, just sheer excuses to buy time so you wont get to debate (as you know that in day 1 wheneverybody is there, they doubt everything single thing) . Huge suspicion on you Beeboy. Ranger was here too but he is in other large games and i even saw his posts there. F-o-ex was here but he just went away after seeing the night 1 commence and rarely appeared for like 3-5 minutes (this shows he isnt on hidden as why would he even appear after that for a single second). No sign of dvs. Shows he MIGHT BE townie beause he maybe has no role to do as Mafia but all of the Mafia actually have an important role. Even Rask was there but he is also in another match (and i saw his posts. Beeboy you need to explain your actions as soon as possible. If you are going to say ' No, Beeboy is in a match so thats why she was there' let me tell you ..nope.. i am talking about posts done too, what would she do for like solid 15 minutes everytime?? Glare at her own match??

Vandit, look.
I understand you may feel frustrated that people are not producing information that you hope for. I've been feeling that for a while now.
However, you need to CHILL. Essentially the ONLY thing you have been posting are complaints about how other people are either posting irrelevant stuff or that they aren't posting are at all.

Real life takes precedence over a silly forum game. Please, respect that.

I also already said this before, but I find your behavior...overzealous and hypocritical. The best you can do is post your reads and thoughts on what HAS happened, as opposed to what has NOT been happening. That way, when people do pop in, they have something to respond to other than describing their real life problems. Telling the forum about your real life does not help the mafia game along and in fact wastes time. If anything, your "scumhunting" is scummy in itself as it does not really have any evidence aside from "stop lurking" (when they may not be) and it in fact distracts attention from you.

So please, start reading through stuff in a more productive manner, post your thoughts, stop pointing fingers at other people because they are 'lurking', and for Christ's sake,

calm down.

Your toxicity is not helping any of us other newbies want to continue playing on the site. It's unhealthy.

Take a chill pill dude. VOTE: Vandit24

[Zyf]

PS. Yes, "glaring at the match" is as a matter of fact an important part of deducing facts.
It is much more effective than calling people lurkers towards advancing the town's chances of success.

[Zyf]

I believe in you all. <3

no bah posts?
Also are you still permitted to take responsibility for mentor related stuff?
Eg game questions, moderation in place of moderator, etc.
ggs

[Zyf]

I don't like vandit of fox for he reasons as stated.

Scum: Fox, Vandit.
Null: dvd, beeboy.
Town: Zyf, Raskinslov.

Which do you think is more suspicious, Vandit or Fox?
Which do you think will be easier to push?

Also if there's a cop in this game, and they investigated, is it good for them to immediately share results?

[Zyf]

@Zyf Toxicity?? I am just demanding a reason what she was doing here being online for long times in the thread after night 1 and not posting anywhere on the website..

However, you are doing so in a rather disrespectful and pushy manner that holds no respect towards their decisions. Your own post literally just debunks the value of your comments–you're worried about OTHER threads. When beeboy chooses to post is their decision and theirs alone. It is perfectly reasonable (and possible) that they are reviewing a match, or just browsing, or heck, leaving the tab open and doing something else (I end up doing that a lot). The point is, your tone is rude, your posts are unneeded, and you aren't helping the game along.
It would be really nice and helpful if you could post some detailed reads instead of asking others to post theirs and complaining that they're lurking or breaking some sort of rule by not posting whenever they are online when they don't.

PEdit: Thank you, sick.

[Zyf]

Hey sick, you have any additional thoughts to my reads to tilt the scales towards a specific push?

[Zyf]

@Zyf

I'm good with either. They are pretty equally scummy.
Vandit probably easiest lynch.

I DO NOT want to rush this vote!
I want to take the FULL ALLOTTED TIME.

I would maybe wait, If I was cop , till you've found a scum. If I just found an inno I would keep it for now.
The only other reason I would claim was if I was put at L-1, and that goes for any PR

Yes, I definitely agree. When I voted sad, it was because it was going to apply more pressure than if I kept my vote on you. However, a certain vandit24 caused an unfortunate early lynch.

Let's get everyone's thoughts post-Night 1 into the thread before we make any rash decisions, starting with Beeboy and Rask.
Oh right I'd like to request a prod onto dvds part. They have been missing for quite a while.

PEdit: Whoa, nice catch on the inconsistency sick. That being said, it was mainly ranger and you until the quickhammer.
I think I'll move you to nulltown.

[Zyf]

Vandit-
First off, please stop quoting moderator posts. That's against the rules.
Second off, the difference between then and now is very clear. Sad was about to get lynched. In this situation, you're just kind of wildly waving fingers towards inactivity.
Thirdly, you seem to desperately be finding ways to push anyone that accuses you of being scummy as being scum themselves. When ranger did it, you said that they were posting lots of irrelevant stuff. Here, you accuse me of "distracting" people from finding beeboy scummy due to supposed "lurking."
Your only way to defend yourself seems to be accusing people that they are hiding the truth by posting unhelpful information.

What we need from you as a town is not statements about what isn't there ("missing" posts), what we need is solid evidence leading to some sort of scummy player.

Once again, I'd like to ask you to respect beeboy's status and stop calling them scummy just because they have posted very little. Real life exists.

PEdit: You had absolutely no reasoning in place, and your vote had significantly more importance as the kill vote. Also, while sick wasn't being very active on the thread, you had plenty of time to see/read and realize that your vote could cause us to lynch an innocent. Unless you WANTED to. That is much more scummy than sick's RVS vote that he never had TIME or reason to take off.

[Zyf]

Zyf if real life exists for beeboy ..why is she online right now and still not posting anywhere for hours..online means she is on Mafiascum.net

... Sounds like you are attacking someone's personal life.

@Mod

Can you address this please?

+1 to mod involvement

Jeebis Vandit, leaving tabs open without using them is a thing. Respect other people's privacy, god.

[Zyf]

Ok, just reread through Fox's iso, and they parked their vote on sad as their rvs vote. Then they read through the forum, posted a giant post pointing to me as scum, then

left their vote on sad

. That isn't right. It seems like a facade to get people to think they're scum by posting (actually quite meaningful, props) lots of information, yet in the background sneakily keeping their vote on their real prey. I can def. see a Vandit Fox team, as they are more likely as newbies to join the same wagon less discreetely than a more experienced pair would.

[Zyf]

Yo beeboy is it like a migrane or something?
Also keep an eye on the votecount sick. Make sure you don't put vandit at L-1 like I did with sick

Rask get in here when you can
Ranger is dead in game and beeboy's shot irl

Here's the thing sick-I could personally envision you and vandit being the 3rd most likely scumteam (after dvds)-you were also odd wih your vote at the beginning of the match. That being said, the interaction between you doesn't really seem like you are friends...imo the scum's partner would be more tolerant about their attitude as a whole. Idk.
I'm glad we're on the same page tho.

PS get well soon beeboy
Try sleeping instead of trying futilely to play mafia on a forum while in pain
We (most of us, anyway) completely understand.

[Zyf]

Sick I don't think you ever actually voted vandit so they're technically at L-3

[Zyf]

smh my vote was to put a lil' pressure on sad, it was 2nd vote out of 5? Rask is just hardcore tunnelling and trying to create connections where there are none. Nice try, bud.

Zyf's a townread now, that post-hammer reaction felt really genuine and I don't see it being faked so well on spot.

Do you think Vandit's 'flamey' behavior is scummy or that that's just their personality?
I really don't like it, myself. It just ruins the game in general, I don't even care about alignment.

Also, would you agree if I said that his only accusation is low activity, irrelevant posts, or lurking?
If so, why do you think he never really pushed you?

[Zyf]

smh my vote was to put a lil' pressure on sad, it was 2nd vote out of 5? Rask is just hardcore tunnelling and trying to create connections where there are none. Nice try, bud.

Zyf's a townread now, that post-hammer reaction felt really genuine and I don't see it being faked so well on spot.

Also, if I appeared so overwhelmingly scummy to you, why did you not vote me and continue your vote on Sad?

[Zyf]

Ugh that hammer.
Ranger and sad both flipping town throws most of my theory out the window and I can't even assume vandits scum from that either.

Ok.
If you could take some time to go through and give some reads, it would be really helpful.
What makes you think Vandit /isn't/ scum

Sick: Quickly hammering is not a great strategy, but what inspires me to try and do this lynch is more of just based on attitude. Like, I'd rather reach Lylo and lose than win with Vandit in the background for 2 more days chanting that beeboy is scum for "lying about being sick".

[Zyf]

As was said vandits pushing based on inactivity is incredibly shallow and directed at what could look like the easier targets to him in the game. Interestingly he doesn't seem to mind f-oh-x or dvd inactivity though which if anything has been more apparent than beeboy being sick and f-oh-x replacing in at the day's end (although scumreading on activity is bs to begin with). I thought about it and the epicmafia thing could explain some of his crap earlier this game but it's also experience I assume would affect his style as scum too so it's whatever. Even with the stylistic out I don't buy him being innocent around that hammer and he hasn't shown any remorse there either. There's so much inexplicable views and thoughts vandit expresses here that I don't know how he can't see or notice any of it.

The problem is with ranger having been town I have trouble being sure on the partner here. F-oh-x could technically fit through lack of mention both ways, but I really like the yesterday catchup post from him, and then going from all that to a townread of zyf today I think is indicative of read progression; very rare from scum. I doubt its beeboy either so at this point I'm thinking it's actually dvds just from vandit not mentioning her and some process of elimination, despite the lack of info we have there.

That said the alternative (to vandit) is some form of sickofit which isn't impossible but ehhh. Sick's been fairly reserved but there's nothing clearly malicious in his actions like with vandit.

100% agree
please don't vote yet tho, let me do this:

@mod: requesting prod on dvds

[Zyf]

I'd vote vandit right now except for the l-1. A concern for someone heavily scumread is a potential self hammer (if he thinks he's 100% getting lynched today) and another day ending early would be disastrous here.

Ideally we wait for beeboy fox and dvds to get involved and post their views (or replace) before we decide anything today so we aren't playing in the dark.

Fox kinda jumped in, beeboy is kinda shot, and dvds is getting prodded and unfortunately may end up replaced e.e

Do you have any evidence or reasoning that points to the fact that you are not as a matter of fact distancing from vandit as his scumpartner?

[Zyf]

@Sick i do not know why didnt you even changed your vote on sad (before night 1) and just went on going (since start of day 1)without any debates or knowning anything and till the end.

I had no argument as to why he was town and he was obviously the scummiest one to me.

I actually love this honesty/admittance from sickofit here.

yep.
Best way to respond to a situation is be honest.
Like when fox accused me of being buddies with you I did the same thing and that seems like it was the best course for action so totally not surprised Sick did it too if he's townie. It's certainly not a scummy move, particularly for us newbs who are just getting our feet wet.
That being said, i'd like again to find some sort of confirmation against you distancing with sad.

[Zyf]

Fox, I understand your concern towards beeboy knowing too much, but I think you two are getting into nitty gritty details that aren't really necessary.
In fact, if what beeboy is saying is true, it makes a lot of sense: Sad was lynched, so the only person that leaves as scummy to ranger is Vandit. Guess who has been under a great deal of scrutiny lately: vandit.
Second, if you're saying that protecting general townread>protecting IC, that leaves 2 possibilities.
From what I can tell, the 2 general townreads were Rask and I: the only one that scumread ranger by the end of the day was rask, so if rask was scum, that leaves only me. However, if I was general town read mafia would probably have chosen to kill me, but the kill succeeded on ranger, meaning that A) they weren't going for me (and the only 2 people I found not suspicious were you and rask, so I probably pointed fingers at them at some point) and B) they thought ranger was more of a threat than me (which, considering ranger could have easily been a lynch candidate for pushing the VT sad, makes no sense:

unless

ranger's reads were correct).
This means that vandit is extra scummy-looking now.

However, since ranger's out of the picture, beeboy was mostly inactive and sick, and rask was relatively townread (and still appears to be so), there is quite a high chance that this is a newbie scum team. This team could have easily not thought my above idea through (ranger would harder to lynch than some other player, which she really wouldn't have been). In fact, with all the evidence pointing to vandit, all of us pretty much glaring at vandit, and you (as the only one not really doing that) seeming to have read progression noticeable enough for a more experienced player like rask to trust (not dvds or something like that), it's also possible that the scum team is vandit+dvds. The vandit dvd team is extra notable considering that vandit whined about even me being unproductive/inactive, but completely ignored dvds, the MOST INACTIVE ONE (extra scum point for vandit, I just noticed that). If that is so, then vandit was probably making most of the decisions (or perhaps all of them), as dvds seems to be straight up gone. Vandit could have easily gotten irritated at ranger (appeared to be so during the day), plus ranger scumread vandit, so ranger was, to vandit, a very viable choice for a kill.

Now here's the thing: that goes directly against beeboy's theory that there is a roleblocker involved. Beeboy, response?

tl;dr-If beeboy's theory is wrong then a vandit+dvds team is highly likely

[Zyf]

I look forward to it, mh

[Zyf]

^I've been agreeing with everything sick has explained about fox scumbuddy and vandit scum.
Honestly just to add I kinda want to lynch vandit solely based on toxicity and the fact that they look pretty scummy is a sweet bonus.

In response to me voting sad: I had no idea vandit was gonna frikin QUICKHAMMER sad. It's just that no one was agreeing enough to vote sick as mafia, so I figured I may as well put pressure on sad as they were going to /have/ to talk at L-1. Unfortunately, well, you know, vandit happened. e.e

[Zyf]

Please don't mock me.

agreed.

@FOX

havent you noticed that sarcasm isnt usually a townie thing to do?

beeboy did it
but it was in a very different manner
You know guys I think we have some very solidified opinons rn that vandit is 99% going to be the one we lynch today and that fox seems relatively scummy
Still tho, please, no one vote vandit yet cuz seeing their attitude towards hammers they could easily self hammer e.e
I'd like to bring this up again:

I don't think Ranger was killed for only being the IC she was probably also killed for having correct reads.
There had to have been something there to offset the chance she was targeted by a protective action last night.

I have a sneaking suspicion that beeboy's PR. They post solid thoughts but those thoughts are rare, and I feel that their low post amount may be due to more than just being under the weather. Either beeboy's hinting at being a prot role /or/ they're trying to draw out a mafia to claim a protective role when beeboy can counterclaim.
Just a speculation.
Also beeboy what do you mean by "*pokes*" ?

[Zyf]

Fox, I understand your concern towards beeboy knowing too much, but I think you two are getting into nitty gritty details that aren't really necessary.
In fact, if what beeboy is saying is true, it makes a lot of sense: Sad was lynched, so the only person that leaves as scummy to ranger is Vandit. Guess who has been under a great deal of scrutiny lately: vandit.
Second, if you're saying that protecting general townread>protecting IC, that leaves 2 possibilities.
From what I can tell, the 2 general townreads were Rask and I: the only one that scumread ranger by the end of the day was rask, so if rask was scum, that leaves only me. However, if I was general town read mafia would probably have chosen to kill me, but the kill succeeded on ranger, meaning that A) they weren't going for me (and the only 2 people I found not suspicious were you and rask, so I probably pointed fingers at them at some point) and B) they thought ranger was more of a threat than me (which, considering ranger could have easily been a lynch candidate for pushing the VT sad, makes no sense:

unless

ranger's reads were correct).
This means that vandit is extra scummy-looking now.

However, since ranger's out of the picture, beeboy was mostly inactive and sick, and rask was relatively townread (and still appears to be so), there is quite a high chance that this is a newbie scum team. This team could have easily not thought my above idea through (ranger would harder to lynch than some other player, which she really wouldn't have been). In fact, with all the evidence pointing to vandit, all of us pretty much glaring at vandit, and you (as the only one not really doing that) seeming to have read progression noticeable enough for a more experienced player like rask to trust (not dvds or something like that), it's also possible that the scum team is vandit+dvds. The vandit dvd team is extra notable considering that vandit whined about even me being unproductive/inactive, but completely ignored dvds, the MOST INACTIVE ONE (extra scum point for vandit, I just noticed that). If that is so, then vandit was probably making most of the decisions (or perhaps all of them), as dvds seems to be straight up gone. Vandit could have easily gotten irritated at ranger (appeared to be so during the day), plus ranger scumread vandit, so ranger was, to vandit, a very viable choice for a kill.

Now here's the thing: that goes directly against beeboy's theory that there is a roleblocker involved. Beeboy, response?

tl;dr-If beeboy's theory is wrong then a vandit+dvds team is highly likely

^Beeboy idk if you lost this so I'm putting it back up again.

Also fox seems to kinda desperately be putting up evidence for anyone but vandit...and it doesn't seem to be working.

Ok, just making sure, does anyone /not/ have intent on vandit aside from fox?
Specifically looking towards rask and beeboy.

[Zyf]

Er, where did you get that I DON'T have an intent on Vandit? I just followed the trail I saw and as I said, I'm kinda busy until Saturday. I've seen a policy lynch suggestion for Vandit and hell, I'm down for that if we don't have a better target in out collective hive mind. As per scum reading, I haven't dug deep enough yet to make an opinion whether he's such an obvious scum or an idiot town.

iunno
maybe because you leave your vote on beeboy and kind of push on it?

[Zyf]

ok valid
so now afaik we have 3 more people than we need to lynch vandit.
Vandit, start explaining.

[Zyf]

Yep. Agreed
So what are we speculating? Scumpartner or PRs?
Or both?
Also fox at the beginning of toDay you mentioned that killing general townread>killing IC.
Since you imply ranger was not IC, who were you expecting to get attacked?

[Zyf]

Ok
so then what are we doing for the next 10 days? I'm not sure where to go.
I've solidified mh or fox as vandit's most likely accomplice, particularly fox since he is one of the few people not called out by vandit and he started off slightly less keen to lynching vandit than the rest of us.

[Zyf]

Yep. Agreed
So what are we speculating? Scumpartner or PRs?
Or both?
Also fox at the beginning of toDay you mentioned that killing general townread>killing IC.
Since you imply ranger was not IC, who were you expecting to get attacked?

How the fuck did I imply ranger was not IC, Ranger being IC is a freaking fact. I suspected Mafia RB being in play from beeyboy's posts and if there is one, there's a Doc/JK too. This means Mafia wouldn't want to go for the most obvious kill.

And to be honest, I didn't have a good guess on who would be killed.

OMFG lmao what a fail
I meant general townread XDDDDD

[Zyf]

I personally would have killed Zyf because the Rask + Ranger 1v1 would have been nice to have assuming Rask is town which isn't something I actually believe right now. I still don't like his initial push on Ranger... >_>

That's what I was saying, I would've killed off someone like you who wasn't pushing anyone very much
Tbh if sad died the first person I would immediately accuse and choose to kill would be ranger.
Definitely strengthens ranger's idea of a newb scumteam.

[Zyf]

Tbh I wouldn't expect vandit/dvds to make a great nightkill anyways, and technically f-oh-x thinks it's a more or less decent kill.
On the surface level zyf suspected sick and sad for most of the day and if f-oh-x is town him coming and doubting zyf near the days end would play a part so I can see why not him.

I'd have killed either beeboy or myself for being experienced and pretty heavily townread, myself also because it would've made ranger look even worse too. But then again vandit has reason to avoid killing both beeboy as his push or me since I was voting him.

Here's the thing, I started pushing on vandit pretty hard when they hammered
So if vandit's scum, did they kill ranger because ranger's reasoning was more solid?

[Zyf]

Though I doubt I'll change my mind on this lynch I want to wait until at least monday-tuesday to end today.

I'm away sat/sun but I really want to see f-oh-x's (sat?) catchup and comment there before the day ends.

note: toDay makes it a lot less confusing :3
I'm interested in fox's response as well considering their position as my second possible lynchee.

Friendly reminder to all to not give vandit the chance to self hammer.

[Zyf]

1690

Lol
that seems to have turned out well for them
Hopefully the result will be similar for us

[Zyf]

1) I suppose you're right. It's just that if they want to talk, they can't let him self hammer

In response to what sickofit's saying, he means that they appear to be working towards the same goal. Vandit isn't really mentioning fox in his salty rants, and Fox doesn't really analyze Vandit's content in the same way they do everyone else's.

[Zyf]

Hope you will be happy seeing my role ok guys??

What's that supposed to mean?

[Zyf]

Ohhh I see.
I have a lot to learn...
Yeah, I definitely agree on getting vandit's claim soon

[Zyf]

Judging by his tone:

inb4 he claims a Power Role that is not in the game/hits the Power Role that IS in the game, causing one of the PRs to CC or to say "I'm another PR so you must be lying".

Bonus points if he's actually a dumb Vanilla Townie doing it.

While I understand your prediction (and to some extent, agree), I'd like to enter this situation with an earnest attitude without cynicism attached.

There's a chance that they may actually do something like claim VT or even better claim mafia.
Honestly for now we can only wait, so try not to set too strong of a preceding attitude.

[Zyf]

Cynicism aside, it was a shoutot to Power Roles not to immediately jump in and CC if Vandit claims a Power Role. Mafia will often claim a PR in order to avoid getting lynched/lure out the real PR. Dumb VTs will do it to, sometimes...

i prefer VIs XD
anyway yeah to all you pr's don't counterclaim too soon

[Zyf]

Yeah, VI's much more catchy, dunno why I didn't use it,

Like your new av <3

I blame sitechat XD

[Zyf]

1) @sick: do you agree with what zyf said in 358 about what you were saying about vandit-fox?

2) Wrt FOX's rb speculation, I'm not sure I really have an opinion about whether it points to anything spec wise. It's possible ranger was the mafias desired kill, whether due to ineffectual pr hunting, generic fear kill of the IC (I've played with ranger only once, and she was Mafia, but I was quite impressed and I think she has a rep as a very good town player), her specific reads, or something else entirely.

3) anyone have anything else they want to talk about pre claim?

Hmm...I'd likecto discuss vandit's possible scum buddies. If we have a cop/tracker, they'll know who town is suspicious of, and if we have a doctor/jailkeeper, they'll be able to make a more informed decision on who to protect (any further and I'm just creating a WIFOM).
I'm personally looking at fox, as something in their play is...off. It's just a hunch right now, I can't pinpoint it.

[Zyf]

V/LA till sunday.
Want to see fox catchup by then so don't quickhammer.
Vandit PR softing is unsurprising. He's likely getting lynched anyways so idk if people want to CC him here if he hardclaims.

I think we should discuss it before we decide to get a CC. We may be able to figure out he's lying without having to CC.
If we lynch and he flips mafia after a cc we're likely down a valuable PR. If he claims doctor it's easier to CC then if he claims cop/tracker, due to WIFOM strats.

[Zyf]

I think that we should all agree not to have any quick CC's against anything Vandit claims. Beyond that I'd rather not discuss the specifics of what should be countered and why until after he actually claims.

I suppose you're right.
Well, see you guys after vandit claims.

[Zyf]

1) Vandit, we're waiting on you
2) How long are we planning on waiting for this claim? Monday?

[Zyf]

FWIW, games on this site are usually a good deal livelier than this one has been the last few days.

I think that's due to the fact that we're waiting to hear Vandit's claim and there's nothing else to talk about.
And we could easily lynch vandit anyway
this is slowwwww

[Zyf]

Honestly can we just hammer him?

There is no way he is PR lets face it.

That sounds a little scummy, sick.
Anyway:

@Mod: Requesting prod onto Vandit

[Zyf]

Zzzzzzzzzzz.

žžžžžžžžžžžžžžžžžžžžžžžž
VOTE: vandit

[Zyf]

e.e
Hey guys
When are we planning on lynching
Because this is getting kinda dumb
We can't even prod. Wth

[Zyf]

VOTE: vanditVOTE:

Is that a joke vote?
Or a typo?

[Zyf]

uhm
So I'm gonna take off my vote for now
Since mh is voting to hammer tonight
just in case this isn't read
UNVOTE: Vandit24

[Zyf]

I have had a recent realization that if we stall the hammer to long and let the game die that is anti town.

Yeah
But fox has intent to hammer tomorrow
If vandit comes back I'm worried they'll just self hammer instead which is infinitely stupid, we may as well get info
If fox doesn't hammer, I'll do it.
This is dumb, but we can't get hasty just because we want to move on with the blasted game

[Zyf]

YESSSSSSS

[Zyf]

Please.
In future games post all your stuff in ONE post.

[Zyf]

Ok, so in case of NK:
If Vandit flips scum, push FOX first.
If Vandit somehow still flips town, I'm mostly suspicious of sick.

[Zyf]

+1 about rask being dangerous

My question is, if Vandit flips scum, who do you think is Vandit's buddy

[Zyf]

I don't think anyone buddied Vandit. (inb4 that I buddied him)
It will be 1v4 so with two lynches my money'd be on winning at LyLo. I'd lynch between Sick/beeboy, while keeping an eye on Rask.
I guess I wouldn't like to see mhsmith lynched.

I don't know about beeboy, I'm more concerned about sick.

[Zyf]

Quick question to anyone:
Why is our thread icon grey as opposed to brown?
Doesn't that indicate the game is over?

[Zyf]

Augh
Y'know Fox you made this a lot harder than it needed to be.
Wait, is this MYLO or LYLO?

[Zyf]

I /want/ to assume mh is conftown and fox's only successful N1 investigation
With the two of us taken out, it appears that fox was suggesting a sick/beeboy scumteam very strongly, especially on beeboy.
Going back through fox's votes, it appears that they pressured beeboy and were (evidently) immediately killed...
Idk, I don't really know where to push from here...
also...NO ONE VOTE!! SCUM CAN QUICKHAMMER!

[Zyf]

F*** this game is hard
Declaring intent to vote beeboy with no further discussion

PEdit: explanation, please. I'm thinking that's a townie-scum "prediction" coming from scum
To anyone: If we have a doctor, is it good for them to claim if it's lylo?

[Zyf]

Please don't mock me.

agreed.

@FOX

havent you noticed that sarcasm isnt usually a townie thing to do?

This is making me want to agree with beeboy's reasoning
The overlap between the two is sick but that could totally be a bait...
ACK my brain

PEdit: Beeboy if we're going to do this I want to see you vote first.
However we do need to wait for sick, and especially rask.
Rask, do you work most on weekends or something? Just wondering why "vla most weekends"

[Zyf]

I think the "I guess I wouldn't like to see hm lynched" is the crumb
It makes sense, as that's their most confident statement in their NK "will"
Beeboy, if you can prove you're town somehow, yes, easy game.
However, you aren't exactly cleared in my eyes.

[Zyf]

Ebwop
Wow can't even put mh in the correct order
Smh

[Zyf]

Oh massclaim, whoops
VT
so if mh isn't doctor (which they don't appear to be) we have a no RB cop only setup which means fox DID get some sort of result, which imo appears to be mh=inno

[Zyf]

yes. if i get NKed... i told you so. i recomend a long look at vandit if sad flips town.

I don't like this...
Although I believe vandit was the correct lynch the next day (someone remind me to ask vandit why the HELL they hammered sad), the "i told you so" has this sort of...confident air that I don't like.
Furthermore, even though yeah IMO vandit was being pretty dang rude, i'd like to mention sick was a fervent supporter in pushing vandit over the edge.
Also, considering I have apparently (and gladly) been newb obvtown, I'm baffled by my severe lack of death. Since scum seem to not have had a rb they had no reason to choose the "less preferable lynch" on night one, leading to fear factor logic. How they found fox as cop by day 2 seems to come from a more experienced player (need backup on this logic), and since my only strong townread day 1 was rask, plus the fact the fox warned to keep an eye out for rask...
Output=Sick+Rask goon X goon scumteam

PEdit-IDK XD I just went since apparently you people go to bed at 1-2am my time
Also yeah I know, I know...no quickvote
+VT points to you

[Zyf]

Honestly Fox and Vandit feels like the only viable scum team to me.
Xvandit is 98% scum for me and that makes fox that as well and here's why:

Vandit/beeboy I don't think Vandit would go for an early bus it's not natutral as a newbie.
Vandit/Zyf not scum/scum interractions and Zyf is town lean anyways.
Vandit/DVD? Too inactive I think to be scum.
Vandit/fox a thousand yesses there play is the same and they are moving together which furthermore says scum team for me.

A lot of things off on this post
1-presenting me as possible scum with vandit, stating me as townlean, yet placing me as their first town read less than 2 hours prior.
2-Echoing my argument towards a fox-vandit scumteam using no solid evidence and only generalized thoughts on an opinion I already made pretty clear (as opposed to just I agree with Zyf, this seems most plausible)
3-Mentions beeboy then immediately considers it foolish; note how it's placed first as though the most confident one, to draw attention. Could be protecting beeboy.
4-The DVDs argument contradicts Vandit's inactivity logic entirely. Like, the #1 vandit shouldbe pushing based on prior behavior would have dvds.

[Zyf]

but wait there's more

@Zyf

I'm good with either. They are pretty equally scummy.
Vandit probably easiest lynch.

I DO NOT want to rush this vote!
I want to take the FULL ALLOTTED TIME.

I would maybe wait, If I was cop , till you've found a scum. If I just found an inno I would keep it for now.
The only other reason I would claim was if I was put at L-1, and that goes for any PR

Sick I don't think you ever actually voted vandit so they're technically at L-3

It's L-2. It takes 4 to lynch.

On another note I'm willing to speed lynch this. I am almost certain he is maf and I really do not want to play with this person.

I can agree with fOX here actually. Since Vandits toxic attitude is mostly absent right now I have no problem taking our full allotted time

Contradictions, anyone?

[Zyf]

@Zyf if you will notice because i noticed that if you read this whole thread (since start) when people actually do random voting and stuff for fun.. sick was the only guy who voted for sad and till the end when we all were saying he is innocent etc (in the middle, not towards the end) still he didnt unvote him. And again didnt unvote sad till he was lynched. I voted for him for a reason,but he.. just no reason.

I never felt moved to take it off. At least I didn't change my vote six times and *ahem* quick hammer somebody.

Looking back, this is one helluva weak argument for not bekng scum

[Zyf]

Hmm... Why are you unvoting?
I'm not seeing any reason too.

The only logical reason Ivan think of is if you we're scum and you knew you were lynching a townie ad didn't want to be on the examin-wagin.

What's your explanation?

Vandit is still so ignorant that he is still saying "if I get lynched"

Next lynch is FOX

>next lynch is fox
>Vandit isn't flipping town
>vandit flips town
>fox is the NK
>fox flips as cop

Hm. My, what confidence and accuracy you have, sick.
What made you so confident that Vandit wouldn't flip town after they got majority voted, sick?

[Zyf]

mh-
1) Fox states that I appear town, while stating that you probably shouldn't be lynched. I don't know if they cop peeked either of us, but regardless, considering ranger's and fox's thoughts, I think we can confidently get this:
Town: You, me (mh, Zyf)
Scum: Sick

At this point, I think we've gone pretty thoroughly through history, but we need Rask to post as they've been V/LA for a while. At this point it's hard to determine which one is town.

[Zyf]

I don't understand vandit at all either what the actual fuck was that play

So, it appears that someone is bussing sick or sick is inno and is getting toasted because it's a 4v1 rn
Rask, I'm assuming you claim VT, can you confirm or deny that?

[Zyf]

Pro tip never speculate who is a PR in the public game thread

I'm sorry rask but where was the PR fishing? I don't see it

[Zyf]

So the main overlap appears to be sick, as far as i can tell.

[Zyf]

Mh, I'm a bit concerned by the fact that you never claimed. It's a bit off.

[Zyf]

Maybe Mh/Beeboy.
Actually this makes more sense since Rask is not sure about the big wagon on me.

Ok, so there definitely was NO rb in play.
Rask and Sick seem to really be playing together. Rask defends Sick, and sick in turn avoids rask by

changing their mind

to further make it appear that rask is good, thus in turn making sick appear better.
Next, sick ignores attempting to defend themselves (stating "I'll do it later") yet has time to instead fingerpoint in the same direction as rask with no evidence or logic.
Next, they both say they can't believe vandit's town, as if to put themselves in the clear. This scumteam makes a lot of sense:
I've been quite surprised that I haven't died yet for the entire game. However, it makes a lot of sense now, as on day 1 I strongly townread Rask, leaving me as a good supporter towards their cause. Next day, rask isn't really around, and I'm in accordance with sick the whole time. Also, during the day, sick rushes the lynch after rasm announces V/LA, even though rask says not to quickhammer (distancing).
Then, the NK on Ranger also makes lots of sense-ranger was one of the few who wasn't fully comfortable with rask being town on day 1
Fox NK also makes sense-fox was the only oen to say to watch out for rask

With all this in place, when we're all ready to vote, I wAnt rask to vote first.

[Zyf]

vandit/sad >>>> vandit/ranger or dvds > vandit/??? but the first is overwhelmingly likely.

Noticing that rask completely ignores sick, who I was still uncomfortabel with at the time.
Would also like to mention that rask appears to be getting impatient. Pressure from continued lying/concealment? Or want to cause a quickhammer?

[Zyf]

Though I doubt I'll change my mind on this lynch I want to wait until at least monday-tuesday to end today.

I'm away sat/sun but I really want to see f-oh-x's (sat?) catchup and comment there before the day ends.

Awfully interested in fox specifically...and fox died soon after...odd.

[Zyf]

@Sick i do not know why didnt you even changed your vote on sad (before night 1) and just went on going (since start of day 1)without any debates or knowning anything and till the end.

I had no argument as to why he was town and he was obviously the scummiest one to me.

I actually love this honesty/admittance from sickofit here.

Protecting sick while calling it gut to prevent suspicion.
Reminder that sick does a similar protection not too much later.

[Zyf]

VOTE: sick

[Zyf]

UNVOTE: sick

[Zyf]

Alright, here's why your justifications are weak.
1) i have not at any point truly taken you out of my suspicions. If you could direct me to an actual post where that thought was presented (supporting you vs vandit doesn't count, that was more of a support towards being a reasonable person/having courtesy), then I can show you why this statement is incorrect.
I haven't done it for beeboy, as just as rask stated, there isn't much to make a leap off of.
For rask, I realized that I was trusting them too much b/c of general day 1 friendliness, and fox as conftown warned to be wary of rask's apparent townie nature.
As for mh, they've been acting townie the whole time. The well presented new thoughts they brought to the table, the unprompted concern towards quickvoting, the possible crumb and townread from fox...mh is currently the one person I trust. Their reads also line up with mine, which is another good sign.
2) I didn't KNOW vandit was going to flip town, I just wanted to be precautious in case for some reason they did; if i died yesterDay night, I as conftow would have had nothing to contribute. Where is this setup you speak of? The pseudowill? Once again, sick, you've been off the whole game.
3) You appear especially scummy as you are DIRECTLY contradicting the final thoughts of the COP. You mention this but brush it off and continue regardless, and your reasoning is weak.
4) As a VT, your greatest power is to force someone into a defense. Especially in lylo, what better way to get people to talk than to push them. Your inconsistency and evidence-less claims are simply digging you a deeper scum hole in my view as you claim that Fox's 2 strongest townreads are the scumteam. If we reversed roles and I was still VT, I would townread you right now for thorough apparent pro-town analysis. In case no one noticed, when fox came in and scumread me, I defended myself and

townread

fox for being thorough in the presentation and logic in their thoughts. Like rask said earlier-we need explanations right now, not empty accusations.

[Zyf]

Look up one post.
We need beeboy to talk more (I'm confused as why they've been playing so quietly now, I thought they were PR).
Mh has been as a general whole been playing as very townie, and their reaction towards today is now different.
In response to beeboy being scum making sense because they mentioned ranger died because her reads were correct...no, that makes absolutely no sense. Beeboy was ranger's #1 townread the whole day, so there was no reason to kill them. If mh is beeboy's partner, then that means that N1, beeboy made the decision to kill ranger on their own (dvds was afk af), which is illogical in and of itself. The only person who suspected beeboy that much was me, and thus, with a Beeboy/MH scumteam that would indicate that they would have killed me in their best interest. Also, on a more personal (and slightly irrelevant) level, beeboy specifically was trying to get in ranger's game in newbie queue (for a while, too), so why would beeboy kill both their friend and their strongest supporter? It doesn't fit.
I can personally believe that beeboy/sick is the scumteam, but both you and sad have prepared accusations against mh without any real analysis to back it up. The only thought is that mh hasn't posted much (which should change by the end of today), but the reality is that most of their opinions bring a new possibility to the table, similar to what you're doing now (although under less pressure).
So yes, I can see beeboy/sick being plausible, but I trust mh until someone can give me a good chunk of evidence that they're scum, with a good person for them to be paired with.
I don't think I'm going to tunnel you at this point, as I've gotten what I've needed from you and your thoughts seem candid.

PEdit-Oh, that's why you read me as town? Because they did a 180 on me?
I was under the impression that I had presented strong enough logic to clear myself in their eyes, and the later pages made it clear I'm a VT.
And here I thought I did a good job...

However, I don't like how you don't really find sick scummy in any way. Yes, it makes sense to put all ideas on the table, and I appreciate that, but why do you think it makes sense for sick to be scumreading the town cop's townreads? Since in my view, sick is 99.9% scum, I don't like that sick's strongest sign of buddying is you.

I'll try going through beeboy's iso once more to see what I can find, but there isn't much to go from.

[Zyf]

ok, yeah rask, nuthing from beeboy.
bee, get to work pls

[Zyf]

rask, it seems mh is posting using statistical data and other info other than their own observations
we'll have to wait until tonight...I personally appreciate the "town consensus" presentation, but don't like that mh hasn't really put their own thoughts down yet.
IRL stuff still takes precedence though. Patieeeenceeeee

is a virtue i don't have

[Zyf]

Definitely agree with the last sentence on the one man scumteam kill pick being off
Still tho, why would beeboy choose to kill ranger? Ranger wasn't even pushing sick either.
Even still, sick should be scum, right? I mean, we both agree that that last scumread is weird, and sick wasn't particularly great on day 1 in my eyes. Plus, sick was rushing to kill vandit closer to the end there.
If sick is scum, who is his partner, though? The only buddy appears to be you.

VOTE: sick

[Zyf]

UNVOTE: sick

[Zyf]

Urgh.
I reaaaallly want to just say "screw this, i'll take responsibilty for town loss, but I am 99.99999999% sure I'm right.

[Zyf]

Rask, I'm not ruling it out entirely. However, I'm ruling out the possibility that sick is not scum, and am therefore going to make the next decisions tomorrow (should I still be alive) at that point.
However, I think the ranger NK is kinda weird unless, as you suggest, they were PR hunting. Idk, I don't think ranger had a very PR vibe.
Wait!

[Zyf]

If mafia has 2x goons there is a chance there is a doctor.
If mafia has 1x RB there is a chance there is a doctor.

I believe this info is very public.

Corrected for you: If Mafia has 1x RB there is 100% chance there is a protection role. And why would you mention Ranger being targetted by a protection action out of a blue?

Because that is always a risk the scum team needs to consider regardless of whether or not they have a roleblocker.

Beeboy does clearly state that the /only/ reason to kill ranger if their reads were wrong (which they were) would be A) fear kill or B) due to an RB suggesting prot role
Furthermore, this appears to be a crumb to their partner should beeboy be scum.

Now then, here's the predicament with the NK:
Mh could not be on the scumteam, as both rask and beeboy were townreads for ranger
Rask, if they had been scum, would not have killed ranger as the sad kill would make ranger look super scummy; rask had their vote up the day before and therefore would have the easiest time pushing ranger
Sick was not placed scummily low on ranger's final readlist, so ranger wasn't really a threat to any of the possible scum.
Which means that the ranger kill was, in fact, a fear kill/PR hunt kill, meaning beeboy was right. So does that make beeboy scum or incisive town?

Then there's the fox kill-it lines up perfectly if the team is beeboy+sick. I personally believe this to be the reason behind the kill, because beeboy wasn't well and thus sick could have made that kill based on the threat of a fox push. Sick would be even further inspired to make this choice since fox gad a stronger scumread on sick. If, in fact, beeboy was still active, they could have pointed out the chance that fox was cop and therefore the kill needed to be done to save sick. I personally do not believe an SE that was active would have so blatantly killed VT!Fox, as they could probably argue their way out of it. Sick, on the other hand, could be bussed, saving the other scum.
Idk, the fox nightkill almost seems to be a decision based on possible pushes and not a PR read. I don't know, but I do know that sick is probably scum as they killed fox, and, thinking they were safe, were surprised when I "turned" (I really didn't) on them. At this point, I'm not sure whether rask stopping me was a good or bad thing.

PEdit: Let me post this first beeboy

[Zyf]

So. From what I'm getting, sick is the safest lynch.
Rask and beeboy are at war with each other, so I'm not going to support either side.
Regardless, their interactions all game do not appear like scum partners. Since I think mh is town, that leaves sick as a guaranteed scum lynch. I do want this discussion/1v1 to continue, but I want this to end in a sick lynch.

and i swear to god if someone gets someone else other than sick quickhammered

[Zyf]

1. It isn't an omgus because rask wasn't voting me.
2. I don't like how Rask made his vote lose any form of pressure by saying it was a poke rather then a real read. Not only is that playing it way too safe for me to think it is town it also fails to actually apply any pressure with your vote.

Wait, beeboy, this thing? That's it?

*sigh*
Ok rask, be honest here-
Did your poke develop into a read or was this a read that you softened from the start?

[Zyf]

Thank you, mh, you nailed what I would say right on the head.
Sick, nothing you say can convince me you're town, unless you can convince me that beeboy and rask are a scumteam.

You act as if I must be scum because I haven't died. On day 1, you had no reason to kill me as I relented later on (plus you had to keep your partner in mind).
Then, on night 2, why would you kill me over your likely cop kill? Furthermore, fox agreed with me completely, but also brought rask and especially beeboy into the picture, meaning that they were probably right on at least one of them.

Your current accusations can be summarized as short, desperate, spurt of the moment thoughts attempting to put together a net of evidence that puts me as scum. It's especially weird that you focus on me and completely ignore my supposed partners, especially considering the fact that I'm the one pushing you.

Best of all, you wildy wave your finger towards me and completely ignore the defense you promised less than 12 hours ago:

Actually my new scumteam is MH and ... Zyf.

I will explain in several posts.
and also attempt to defend myself.

Friendly reminder, that's against...

Spoiler: All of this

Please don't mock me.

agreed.

@FOX

havent you noticed that sarcasm isnt usually a townie thing to do?

This is making me want to agree with beeboy's reasoning
The overlap between the two is sick but that could totally be a bait...
ACK my brain

PEdit: Beeboy if we're going to do this I want to see you vote first.
However we do need to wait for sick, and especially rask.
Rask, do you work most on weekends or something? Just wondering why "vla most weekends"

yes. if i get NKed... i told you so. i recomend a long look at vandit if sad flips town.

I don't like this...
Although I believe vandit was the correct lynch the next day (someone remind me to ask vandit why the HELL they hammered sad), the "i told you so" has this sort of...confident air that I don't like.
Furthermore, even though yeah IMO vandit was being pretty dang rude, i'd like to mention sick was a fervent supporter in pushing vandit over the edge.
Also, considering I have apparently (and gladly) been newb obvtown, I'm baffled by my severe lack of death. Since scum seem to not have had a rb they had no reason to choose the "less preferable lynch" on night one, leading to fear factor logic. How they found fox as cop by day 2 seems to come from a more experienced player (need backup on this logic), and since my only strong townread day 1 was rask, plus the fact the fox warned to keep an eye out for rask...
Output=Sick+Rask goon X goon scumteam

PEdit-IDK XD I just went since apparently you people go to bed at 1-2am my time
Also yeah I know, I know...no quickvote
+VT points to you

Honestly Fox and Vandit feels like the only viable scum team to me.
Xvandit is 98% scum for me and that makes fox that as well and here's why:

Vandit/beeboy I don't think Vandit would go for an early bus it's not natutral as a newbie.
Vandit/Zyf not scum/scum interractions and Zyf is town lean anyways.
Vandit/DVD? Too inactive I think to be scum.
Vandit/fox a thousand yesses there play is the same and they are moving together which furthermore says scum team for me.

A lot of things off on this post
1-presenting me as possible scum with vandit, stating me as townlean, yet placing me as their first town read less than 2 hours prior.
2-Echoing my argument towards a fox-vandit scumteam using no solid evidence and only generalized thoughts on an opinion I already made pretty clear (as opposed to just I agree with Zyf, this seems most plausible)
3-Mentions beeboy then immediately considers it foolish; note how it's placed first as though the most confident one, to draw attention. Could be protecting beeboy.
4-The DVDs argument contradicts Vandit's inactivity logic entirely. Like, the #1 vandit shouldbe pushing based on prior behavior would have dvds.

but wait there's more

@Zyf

I'm good with either. They are pretty equally scummy.
Vandit probably easiest lynch.

I DO NOT want to rush this vote!
I want to take the FULL ALLOTTED TIME.

I would maybe wait, If I was cop , till you've found a scum. If I just found an inno I would keep it for now.
The only other reason I would claim was if I was put at L-1, and that goes for any PR

Sick I don't think you ever actually voted vandit so they're technically at L-3

It's L-2. It takes 4 to lynch.

On another note I'm willing to speed lynch this. I am almost certain he is maf and I really do not want to play with this person.

I can agree with fOX here actually. Since Vandits toxic attitude is mostly absent right now I have no problem taking our full allotted time

Contradictions, anyone?

@Zyf if you will notice because i noticed that if you read this whole thread (since start) when people actually do random voting and stuff for fun.. sick was the only guy who voted for sad and till the end when we all were saying he is innocent etc (in the middle, not towards the end) still he didnt unvote him. And again didnt unvote sad till he was lynched. I voted for him for a reason,but he.. just no reason.

I never felt moved to take it off. At least I didn't change my vote six times and *ahem* quick hammer somebody.

Looking back, this is one helluva weak argument for not bekng scum

Hmm... Why are you unvoting?
I'm not seeing any reason too.

The only logical reason Ivan think of is if you we're scum and you knew you were lynching a townie ad didn't want to be on the examin-wagin.

What's your explanation?

Vandit is still so ignorant that he is still saying "if I get lynched"

Next lynch is FOX

>next lynch is fox
>Vandit isn't flipping town
>vandit flips town
>fox is the NK
>fox flips as cop

Hm. My, what confidence and accuracy you have, sick.
What made you so confident that Vandit wouldn't flip town after they got majority voted, sick?

That's a lot of stuff to ignore.

Finally, your "If I were scum I would have done this" holds no water. I've even elucidated it by explaining why fox was a better kill.

[Zyf]

Instead of helping the town by presenting evidence in some sort of consolidated form, or presenting some sort of defense, you instead choose to threaten/dare me and turn ruder than vandit.
Followed by strongly emotionally biased evidence. You're not even saying "UGH if you lynch me town loses," you're saying "You're scum, I dare you to lynch me."

Since I know I'm VT, I've given you plenty time to put up some sort of evidence, and I appear to have some level of accordance with everyone else...
Plus the fact that an

actual

VT wouldn't act this way if they were working in the interest of the town
Plus the fact you're being rather rude
Sure. I'll take you up on that.

VOTE: sickofit1138

[Zyf]

oh wait no I want to see mh's thoughts first
UNVOTE: sick

[Zyf]

Ahh...and therein lies the problem, rask.
At this point it's a pretty confirmed 1v1 with you vs beeboy as sick's partner.
Although the vandit and sick responses are similar, sick's reaction is a stark contrast from the rest of their gameplay
I can tell you that if I live and it's you VS beeboy I'm not going to immediately assume it's you.
However, I really don't like how you are trying to shift town away from a nore consensus lynch and possibly get us to fall into a quickhammer trap. It's almost like you're trying to defend sick as scumpartner...
At this point, I'm going to just say that as soon as I get what I need from Mh, I'm voting sick.
No one is convincing me I should do otherwise in my interest towards a town win.

[Zyf]

Wait what?
Sick why are you voting beeboy after pointing at me?
Rask how is sick not scum? They've had odd moments early on and have been incredibly inconsistent toDay. They've also been flailing this whole time.
We need to wait for mh, then you'll have a chance to prove/redeem yourself.
However, I am personally confident sick is scum, especially since they throw out a vote that would lose town the game if sick sinehow really is town. Ergo, this.
VOTE: sickofit1138

Oh my fucking god guys what the actual fuck
Fuck you guys if you fuck up i swear

[Zyf]

Here i'll make it clear
VOTE: beeboy

[Zyf]

Damn mh good shit

I'm guessing it was sick.

I swear this was the shortest mafia game ever

I fuckin told you rask

[Zyf]

Sick, why did you kill ranger?

[Zyf]

Yeah i had fun until about 3 hours ago
Frikin hell i'm salty as s*** rn

Fuck
I'm tired it's midnight

[Zyf]

Let me just say a few things.
1) I'm still satisfied with the vandit lynch. That hammer was cancer.
2) Fox read threw me tf off, jfc
3) Rask, I'd love to play another match with you, was fun.
4) Fucking well played mh, i'm not even mad at this point
5) Who would you have killed if we lynched sick?
6) Imo we got pretty fucked because fox never truly crumbed
7) i was right on toDay lynch, screw you guys EISODHEHS
seriously though, mh, you fukin deserve that. Holy s***

Wow fuck you rask
Internet troll strikes again

[Zyf]

Wow. Damn.
I got absolutely screwed from all angles.

Rask why did you kill ranger then

Still tho i'm fine with vandit kill

[Zyf]

Wow short of frikin beeboy rask that's the most brutal setup we could have
Double experienced scumteam + weirdo who quickhammers as town + one power role who never even crumbed + the only experienced protown player being sick

What the hell man that's me + sick (who were against each other the whole game) vs you two
Yeah there was no way to win that
Specific feedback for me?
Could use a bunch

[Zyf]

Lmao
So what i'm getting is my playstyle sets me up as annoying as fuck for the scumteam and it'll get me killed a lot

Wowww a fear kill
Wow.

[Zyf]

Main thing I'm wondering about is who fox investigated, that one is super confusing
Ps how dare you call me a spammer

[Zyf]

Dude 5p lylo sucks
There was no way we were going to win but still I don't like how I can lose despite repeatedly urging people not to vote in case of quickhammer
Honestly tho rask you are a troll.
In retrospect I should've known something was off when both mh and rask were on at the same time and not leaving
Sick, why did you vote beeboy? It wasn't even me.

[Zyf]

You know what the worst part is?
The two people who contributed the most to the the thread in terms of analysis with backup were the two scum. Aside from fox, who got insta fucked anyway.

I'm about to hit 200 posts

[Zyf]

With this post i officially have contributed the same amount as mh+rask+sick combined
Ok maybe just a bit too much posting

[Zyf]

Rask where did u go