Open 741: Red Flag [Endgame]

[Blackjacks]

I AM THE JESTER

[Blackjacks]

I mean, hello

[Blackjacks]

[Blackjacks]

All you other jesters are jest imitatin

[Blackjacks]

Is the Random Voting Stage (RVS) truly a beneficial activity for Towns in the game of Mafia, or does it merely offer the illusion of productivity? We shall argue in favor of the latter.

-Do not use any form of provable randomness. This includes dice tags, screenshots of random.org, etc. Saying you flipped a coin is okay, providing some sort of proof that you did isn’t.

We begin by noting that the RVS is misleadingly named. It is impossible to have a truly Random voting stage, as voting in a provably random way would violate the integrity of the game of Mafia.

Thus, Internet mafia sites such as mafiascum.net present a dilemma to their players: vote "randomly" (but not randomly) at the beginning of a game, or risk becoming a member of the "outgroup". One might draw parallels between the act of voting "randomly", when such a thing is impossible, and the act of lying, which is often considered anti-town by the esteemed experts of the field

[who?]

. As such, the RVS may serve to decrease town cohesion. Indeed, a statistically significant portion of Forum Mafia (FM) players interviewed were found to have lasting negative emotions toward their "random" voters.

Secondly, a wide variety of effective scumhunting tools are available to town players, including passionate but misguided accusation

1

, posting gifs, posting anime gifs, pointlessly speculating on the setup, tactically lurking, reaction testing, tactically replacing out, looking at cute cats

2

, vote-count analysis (VCA), lolhammering, etc., and the "randomness" of an RVS vote typically undermines such methods. As such, we propose a new standard of FM play that moves away from RVS and all its detrimental effects.

As an example, we shall perform a round of VCA by a process detailed

3

in the Mafia Discussion (MD) board on mafiascum.net.

unofficial votecount

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Blackjacks (1):	THE MEME MEN (95),
THE MEME MEN (1):	the worst (98),
Not voting (11):	Clemency,	Carcalilly,	Blackjacks,	Gamma Emerald,	ceejayvinoya,	Aster,	TwistedGwen,	pinturicchio,	RadiantCowbells,	Springtrap,	Keyser Söze,

From this votecount it can be trivially observed that

THE MEME MEN

are of the mafia persuasion. As an added benefit, when both of them are lynched, the game will end in a Town Victory.

VOTE: THE MEME MEN

[Blackjacks]

OMG, thank you so much Clemency for helping us move out of RVS!!! You're the best

[Blackjacks]

I will Join in the GIF-based scumhunting~

[Blackjacks]

Where all my bad gals at?

[Blackjacks]

Ya ofrhz is v/la

[Blackjacks]

This game feels inactive. Is it just me?

Stop cringing at people's psots then

[Blackjacks]

gamma vaguely townish?

meme kinda scummy

the game's boring me so far and I don't really have serious reads on most of the list

[Blackjacks]

Yawn

I wrote it after meme voted us (and searching a quote from a game I just played takes like 5 minutes max lol).

[Blackjacks]

Ruru you're the one that chose the avi for your hydra right?

@Aster, he'll get to it, fear not

-rh

how'd you know?

[Blackjacks]

Do you think I'm actually too incompetent to quickly find a post that I remember making in my most recent game?

was this prepared ahead of time too?

[Blackjacks]

I know ofhrz and I know her MEME STYLE

Can I be the Psy to your CL?

Doesn't mean you have to townread me, but tell me who you think I should vote rn other than myself :3



-rh

Vote who you think is scum

[Blackjacks]

yo

Other head of this hydra checking in. Just a heads up, I will be v/la until next Monday

[Blackjacks]

Spoiler:

All this talk about jesters - you guys sure you're in the right game and not in Jester Nightless by Jingle, instead? lol

Also, shouldn't we be careful about who we vote? Because if scum is well coordinated, then after we vote, they could just pile on all 4 as 4 more votes.

^ kinda really lamist if I compare him here to a Micro I saw him playing

@yuurei what micro was this? I don't remember us playing a micro , ever

-LH

Sorry, I confused. It was not a micro, it was a mini normal.

Mini normal 2021
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76702

We didn't play together though, I just replaced out of the game and read it all after

[/quote]
you're confusing these two accounts:

THE MEME MEN: https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=31967
meme man: https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=31738

[Blackjacks]

VOTE: volxen

ellitell

[Blackjacks]

People who shitpost in Mafia games are the scum of the earth, which makes them Literally mafia. I wanted to make sure everyone understood my Stance on the issue.

-r

[Blackjacks]

It's probably the anime image. I recommend you guys to either delete it

Yes

[Blackjacks]

My scum meta is to scream into a pillow

[Blackjacks]

Lynch volxen

[Blackjacks]

On the other hand, if THE MEME MAN is scum, this behaviour makes a whole lotta sense. He clearly cannot confidently present his opinion because he knows it is a scum opinion and/or doesn't even believe it himself. He can't find another presentable opinion that doesn't make him look stupid. He doesn't admit that he hadn't thought things through because I said earlier that I expected town to crusade that his opinion is right, and certainly he doesn't want to look like folding scum. Stuck with a no-win situation, he tries to make things go away by stalling and beating around the bush.

The lamist post itself was kind of scummy to me, but why do you think scum, choosing to make a lamist post about mafia theory, would post something they themselves don't believe?

[Blackjacks]

-r

[Blackjacks]

It seems plausible for scum to do it because I literally did that myself in my last scumgame (link.)

But you weren't exactly making up mafia theory that you didn't believe; if you were town in that game, there

would

be a potential mylo from your perspective

-r

[Blackjacks]

Their revised answers answer questions in a way that conflicts with his warning to be careful with voting.

How so?

/ofrhz

[Blackjacks]

<snip>

I said earlier that I expected town to crusade that his opinion is right, and certainly he doesn't want to look like folding scum.

Idk about crusading, but I do think 134 was LH insisting his initial statement was correct. as you pointed out in 144, that was slightly town indicative

[Blackjacks]

Lynch volxen

[Blackjacks]

So won't the real jester please stand up?

-r

[Blackjacks]

hey ceej, thoughts on volxen?

/ofrhz

soz nsg

[Blackjacks]

i'm surprised people don't alt slip more tbh

[Blackjacks]

hmu with some reads clem

[Blackjacks]

sheep us!

vote volxen

[Blackjacks]

Nibbui is demoralized because Volxen is a caught scumbuddy

-rh

Remind me why you’re scumreading nibbui again?

/ofrhz

[Blackjacks]

368 is mostly parroting thoughts that have already been raised and beaten to death

Lynch volxen

[Blackjacks]

368 is mostly parroting thoughts that have already been raised and beaten to death

Lynch volxen

Popping in every 46 hours and posting things that other people have already said is also volxen’s scumgame in my experience

[Blackjacks]

Remind me why you’re scumreading nibbui again?

/ofrhz

because he's demoralized from volxen being caught, duh



-rh

zzz

[Blackjacks]

Do you guys not try hard on this account at all

[Blackjacks]

people reading too much into ruru’s troll posts is triggering me a bit

[Blackjacks]

ofhrz

:crying:

[Blackjacks]

I dont know what part of this game to take seriously anymore. I dont think that's a good sign.

Thoughts on the current wagons?

[Blackjacks]

I’m supposed to be CL!

Ruru is minzy

We’ve both been slacking off on the 2ne1 gif game. 100% ruru’s fault tho

[Blackjacks]

Nibbui and ceejay are probably town

[Blackjacks]

blackjack/Firebringer are scum together
volxen is town

Why

[Blackjacks]

RC why are we scum

/ofrhz

[Blackjacks]

ruru in our last game started talking on d1 about how it was autolose if she left scum me alive and seriously advocated policy lynching me day one.
this game she's avoided me entirely, has made zero decent content posts, and is shit pushing town.

I didn't push your policy lynch day one, you just acted like I did

I strongly believed in policy copping you day two because I misunderstood the setup

players I would policy lynch 100% of the time are players like jaydragonking who always lose the game for town as either alignment

you're someone I would consider pling d1 if I don't have any scumreads, and there are setups where I would consider pling you even if I had scumreads, but I don't feel like pling you is particularly good in this setup.

-r

[Blackjacks]

yes, because I'm here to meme with ofrhz and enjoy myself

[Blackjacks]

What was your motivation in making this post? The part about warning people about voting. We aren't in lylo, so why would all four scum be inclined to all join the same wagon and quicklynch a townie on day one, when that would potentially bring all four of them under a lot of scrutiny on day two? Especially if the four scum were all the last four voters on the wagon and quickly voted back-to-back to bring the wagon to lynch. In lylo it would make sense for that to happen, but it doesn't make sense for the scumteam to do that on day one. It seems strange to be discouraging voting this early on in the game, especially since voting/pressuring is one way to help the game transition from "RVS" to "serious mode".

this is towny and the only real reason to scumread them is lack of content. it's just a generic bad wagon

what's towny about this post?

-r

[Blackjacks]

yes, because I'm here to meme with ofrhz and enjoy myself

What do you think that scum you would be doing here differently?

I probably wouldn't post things like 102/115/260 or if I did I would overexplain them to make sure that everyone "got" them

I might also be trying harder to look like I'm efforting

-r

[Blackjacks]

when I'm scum I actually just can't write posts, which presumably only improves with practice.

people also tend to gut/tone read me as scum

-r

[Blackjacks]

I can write elaborate wallposts as scum, I can fake trajectories, I can double-check my entire iso for internal consistencies, etc.

I just can't

post

like I think I was the lowest living poster in that game

[Blackjacks]

You guys accused him of the Ellitell, posting somewhere else while not posting in a certain game.

However, in my vision the Ellitell works on cases where the player is

purely

not interested in posting on that game while posting on others, if he might have had other reasons that tell fells flat. Volxen had only logged in for some time back then, and although he posted in one game, Keyser already said he didn't post in another one he is in as well.

In the time span between 173 and 368, volxen was only playing in one other game in which he made multiple posts.

Ellitell has worked on volxen in the past; he’s more likely to post when he’s town.

/ofrhz

[Blackjacks]

I agree with RC about Volxen, but it's null for me.

What parts did you agree with?

[Blackjacks]

You guys accused him of the Ellitell, posting somewhere else while not posting in a certain game.

However, in my vision the Ellitell works on cases where the player is

purely

not interested in posting on that game while posting on others, if he might have had other reasons that tell fells flat. Volxen had only logged in for some time back then, and although he posted in one game, Keyser already said he didn't post in another one he is in as well.

In the time span between 173 and 368, volxen was only playing in one other game in which he made multiple posts.

Ellitell has worked on volxen in the past; he’s more likely to post when he’s town.

/ofrhz

I mean, I'm not sure why you are putting so much stock in this. I only have one completed scum game on site, and it seems like you are scumreading me here because of a certain ongoing game. At times I have gaps in my posts as both alignments. And yes if I am playing multiple games, I may not post each day in each game.

I was pretty obviously responding to the statement that you were not ellitelling. This isn’t even the only reason I’m scumreading you for anymore

What thoughts on the game do you have?

[Blackjacks]

my townreads are rarely wrong

townreading volxen this confidently off of like one post is still really questionable to me and I'd like a better explanation than "lol his iso is better than urs" which doesn't make him town even if it's true, especially when the post you're townreading was basically just him stating uncontroversial ideas about how mafia games are played.

-r

[Blackjacks]

I want to get a flip on scum who wouldn't otherwise die

I really don't want to hear any reason for a lynch other than "scummiest player" in this setup because scum can shoot their weakest / most widely scumread players if left alone

(this is, incidentally, one of the reasons why I feel policy lynching you is bad here.)

-r

[Blackjacks]

okay fine, I can't sleep, I'll bite

(even though you were mean to me)

what was 549 about?

[Blackjacks]

do you think omgus is scummy?

[Blackjacks]

is it >rand scum to do something that some people

[who?]

consider a scumtell and have nobody complain about it?

probably, right

[Blackjacks]

I might have to scumread you now

[Blackjacks]

o m g

u r so cringe.

[Blackjacks]

Can we Lynch Volxen yet?

[Blackjacks]

The news that the Ellitell worked on him once is

very

appreciated (that in other words he indeed posts more as town than as scum). in what game did that happen?

I can’t link it right now, but if you don’t mind doing some legwork, I promise you it won’t be hard to find.

/ofrhz

[Blackjacks]

Nibbui and ceejay are probably town

What are you seeing "probably town" in ceejay?

226 was towny coming from ceejay. I feel like scum ceejay is more opportunistic in terms of hopping on wagons, and he’d find flimsy reasons to scumread someone

More generally speaking, he lurks as both alignments but he feels more engaged here

[Blackjacks]

I can just left left head take over and do a de facto replace out though if this thread is just going to let RC manipulate them and let him get away with obnoxious AtE. While my response to him reads poorly, his "I will lynch you regardless of alignment" comment was completely uncalled for. I don't like him using the threat of gamethrowing as a way of bullying me into not pressuring him.

-RH

Is RH no longer playing this game?

[Blackjacks]

And for now, I have scumleans on Blackjack and Ceejay because both of them seem eager to scumpaint me merely based on how frequently I am posting in this game.

do you think this

isn't

scum-indicative for you?

[Blackjacks]

-r

[Blackjacks]

This conversation is boring, lynch volxen

-r

[Blackjacks]

Volxen gets a pass for the day because I remember a game where he did this in day 1 and came back strong the day after, so yeah I wanna see more of volxen.

which game was this?

[Blackjacks]

Subject: Newbie 1889: Ice Cream (Game Over)

Nova, is there a particular reason why you singled me out compared to the other players with low-content? In 115 you voted for me and called me out after I had made a post (101) indicating that I was in the process of getting caught up in the thread. You called me out for lurking, but you didn’t call anyone else out and it came across like the only reason why it bothered you is because I made that post before I would have gotten prodded, as opposed to making it after I got prodded. In the very next post in the thread, 116, UC made a similar “I need to get caught up” post, but it didn’t phase you at all. Literally the only difference between my “I need to get caught up” post and UC’s “I need to get caught up” post is that I made mine before I would have gotten prodded, and he made his after he got prodded. Also, at the time you made 115, Horrordude only had two posts (6 and 72), one of which was his RVS vote and the other being his “I need to catch up” post. UC also had only two posts (16 and 52) at the time you made 115, and again here one of his posts was a unvote/vote and the other was a “I need to catch up post”. I, on the other hand, had 5 posts (17, 19, 21, 40, and 101) at the time you made 115, and 3 out of those 5 posts contained serious game-related content. The fact of the matter is that I had more game-related content than both Horror and UC

combined

at the time you made 115, but out of us three “lurkers” the

ONLY

thing that stuck out to you was the fact that I made my “I’m getting caught up” post before getting prodded as opposed to making it after getting prodded? Seriously?

If you had equally called all three of us out in 115 for having low-content, that would have been one thing. But you completely ignored UC’s and Horror’s own lack of content and hammered down on me solely because of the timing of my “I’m getting caught up” post. And then in 179, you continued to double down on me while still basically ignoring UC’s lack of content (you briefly name dropped him here but that was it). And here you also praised Horror for making a catch-up post, while downplaying my exchange with and questioning of xwing, as if that’s somehow not legitimate game-related content.

If your case against me is that I am more likely to be scum compared to the other low-content posters because of the timing of my “I’m getting caught up” post, then, to quote Reundo, I would say your case is pretty damn “flim flam”.

fos: NotNova for the time being for his questionable reasoning behind scumreading me.

town.volxen omgusing in that game early d1 feels pretty righteous to me

[Blackjacks]

I feel like your almost BOPing me or something. And in Newbie 1889, where I was town and you were scum, you made the same argument against me. You linked to one of my previous town games, claimed I wasn't as towny as I was in the previous game, and accused me of being scum over it. Interesting that you are doing the exact same thing again here this game.

I still think Meme is suspicious because of the whole "be cautious with voting because all four scum might pile on the wagon" at the very beginning of the game. And for now, I have scumleans on Blackjack and Ceejay because both of them seem eager to scumpaint me merely based on how frequently I am posting in this game.

this isn't particularly righteous and he doesn't seem to care whether our scumread on him is reasonable or unreasonable, just that it exists.

I mean, I'm not sure why

you are putting so much stock in this. I only have one completed scum game on site, and it seems like you are scumreading me here because of a certain ongoing game. At times I have gaps in my posts as both alignments. And yes if I am playing multiple games, I may not post each day in each game.

this definitely isn't righteous, it's actively scummy and defensive in tone

I'm not really seeing similarity to volxen's town meta, even in that game

[Blackjacks]

For instance, you are at least trying to engage with me, whereas BlackJacks has multiple posts calling for my lynch.

except we've tried to engage you multiple times and you've ignored us. why?

-r

I was pretty obviously responding to the statement that you were not ellitelling. This isn’t even the only reason I’m scumreading you for anymore

What thoughts on the game do you have?

And for now, I have scumleans on Blackjack and Ceejay because both of them seem eager to scumpaint me merely based on how frequently I am posting in this game.

do you think this

isn't

scum-indicative for you?

[Blackjacks]

If I am town and RC is scum, what is his motivation in trying to get BlackJacks lynched instead of me?

can you think about this a bit more deeply and then answer it?

[Blackjacks]

Searching for a replacement for THE MEME MEN.

was this a force replace?

[Blackjacks]

Gyus please stop making the game a Toxic Atmosphere it's disturbing Clemency who is trying to sleep.

-r

[Blackjacks]

Are we a mislynchable town player sir?

[Blackjacks]

zzz

RC's case on me is more town than the keyser/volxen/springtrap votes, not that it makes him town or anything, but I pretty much expect him to want me out of the game, in any game, as either alignment, and my iso is objectively different from my town meta on my main so whatever.

Keyser can be read by postcount and he stopped postcounting here which is questionable, he's also voteparking us with a "sorting" vote while not really doing anything even though we've apparently developed into a Serious wagon
tbh nobody's really doing anything in this game us included so it's hard to get reads.

I think volxen is scum, ofrhz is starting to doubt it after his realtime posting spree but I don't know if we have any better shared reads than volxen

Springtrap is a token nullscum read but I don't know if he's too likely to be actual scum

I kinda townread clemency's utter lack of contribution, I think isos like volxen that are trying to look like they're playing the game are much more likely to flip scum

Idc mafia right now, I'm on this account because my last game wasn't fun even though I won and efforting is too stressful so if we're going to get lynched for not efforting just lynch us so we flip and we'll go play another game where people can meta us better assuming ofrhz doesn't disown me for trolling all game

[Blackjacks]

His vote was weird but idk if it's scummy weird or just weird

I don't know how to read ceejay at all, ofrhz might have a better opinion

[Blackjacks]

I didn't say it's personal, I just think you think it's -ev for me to exist in your game because you lump me among some set of people who ruin your games

like lynches are based on reads but they're also based on ev. when you or I play mafia, sometimes we don't lynch the scummiest player, we lynch the player most likely to lose us the game and I think you believe that I tend to treat your slot in an unreasonable way.

[Blackjacks]

Itt blackjacks tries to convince their top scumread that they are town

for the record, posts like this make me not want to engage you because they're completely unreasonable and dealing with people who are being completely unreasonable might maximize winrate but it doesn't maximize fun. like, I don't think you actually hold this viewpoint about our posting. because of your playstyle, that doesn't make you scum, it makes you {town trying to brute force a lynch that you believe in, town reaction testing, scum trying to look like one of those}. ofrhz used the hurt2 tag in our pt and apparently didn't feel like engaging you either.

I think your townread on volxen is scummy but that makes you 34% scum or whatever which doesn't make me want to 1v1 you because {it's not enjoyable, I don't believe in policy lynching you in this setup anyway}.

[Blackjacks]

you're right that i think that lynching you is genuinely +some ev, some of the time. in this setup only two scum lynches are required and i'm super unlikely to get a chance to impact more than one lynch. i'm not sure if you're spinning this strategically or just misunderstanding me as a person, but if you weren't my top scumread i wouldn't be voting you here, ever. and you have an extremely easy time proving yourself as town so i don't think expecting you to actually put in the minimal effort to townfirm yourself is an unreasonable expectation

I'm probably partially projecting how I think about mafia onto you because you win games or something

[Blackjacks]

also scum.me is literally too incompetent to have this conversation right now, and my trysoft meta on this alt is already ruined, thanks a lot.

[Blackjacks]

I don't play to maximize fun on my main, I play to maximize winrate

believe me I had no fun on day 1 in purgatory

[Blackjacks]

(also, I didn't policy lynch you)

[Blackjacks]

i don't really play to maximize winrate so much as i play to maximize my personal ability to win games

i would get basically nothing out of a game i won by policy lynching a good scum player besides a feeling of regret that i wasn't good enough to catch them myself.

I'm just less honorable I guess?

on a personal level I feel no regret pling players who are {scumreading me, acting anti-town, historically bad at town}

you're an unusual case because you're like actually good at the game in a way that doesn't involve having terrible winrates as one alignment or the other so I actually would feel regret pling you (although I would still do it in, say, nightless vanilla if I had no scumreads). that probably factored into how I played purgatory. that, and the fact that uglyduck was incredibly scummy

I do strongly believe in mechanical sorting (policy copping you and bop) when they're available options, and I know you hate those too, but whatever

[Blackjacks]

I feel like scum would more likely make up a trajectory rather than just naked vote us, but I'm curious to hear what ceejay's reasoning was

-r

[Blackjacks]

springtrap seems town

-r

[Blackjacks]

Why are you voting Obvious Town?

-r

[Blackjacks]

Why are you voting Obvious Town?

-r

if you can agree with me that volxen is town, then hey you're free.

um awkwardly enough I just found [redacted] and I might actually agree with you now.

this is like -----charisma, I'm afk

[Blackjacks]

VOTE: Keyser

[Blackjacks]

Springtrap, what other reads do you have?

[Blackjacks]

springtrap seems town

-r

So when I told ruru I was townreading springtrap, it was because them townreading us over aster seemed like a complex read that was more likely to come from town.

Except I’m reading the thread chronologically now and I realize that AG was the first to explain her scumread on aster, which makes springtrap’s read less novel and towny and more going with the flow.

[Blackjacks]

Town:

Clemency, AG, Ceejay, aster, nibbui, RC
Pretty sure ruru was townreading pintu as well

/ofrhz

[Blackjacks]

Tmi

[Blackjacks]

Springtrap is like the most boring wagon of all time even if he flips scum

actually ofrhz thinks he's scummy now, I think he's just lynchbaity but whatever.

in general I think nothing happening + some lynchbaity player looks like they're going to get compromise lynched is +town to them

anyway I guess I'll write an effortpost about keyser

so, my impression of his town meta from having followed some of his town games is that he generally actively does stuff to the point that some people scumread him or he has an obvious tvt on d1 or something, whereas I don't really remember anything he did in this game, have no reasons to townread him, and a lot of his posts feel lacking in conclusions, which feels like it should be scum-indicative for someone like him, and is probably one of the better scumtells for people in general. if we assume that scum were content with rc tunneling us and us tunneling volxen (which we're really still not sure on volxen's alignment, but he's still town in more games than not), then keyser doing what feels like less and less over time even though the game is heating up feels scummy.

without having played with keyser before and not having really read his scumgames: his scumgames are lower postcount in general and I guess he's not really out of his townrange postcount here (which is giving me serious self-doubt on this read) but subjectively it feels like he is anyway. I'm surprised to see that he's as high as 5th in postcount, but I guess everyone in this playerlist is also super apathetic. *shrug*

Spoiler:

This playerlist is tough, struggling for tangible reads. This is where I need RC to take my hand

"lacks town"

Not sure I'm buying that this 'swag' from Firebringer is real.
That vote on Aster is awkward (?) too IMO (if the game is "content dry" why self-indulge in RVS?). It's like Firebringer has entered the thread wearing a mask.

then why not vote him? this sounds more intense than keyser's reason for voting gamma, but this never developed into anything more.

he also has a lot of back-and-forth with gamma, but I never really felt like he actually wanted gamma (or anyone else) lynched during us vs. volxen and rc vs. us, it was just kind of like some posts were there in the thread.

3) i think you guys underestimate just how scummy it is that she decided volxen was scum before he posted and stuck with the read after

This aroused my scumdar at the time too...

I think the strength/intensity of the read did not reflect the amount of 'supporting' evidence.

we both think not posting for a while after a replace-in is a serious generic scumtell, and in this case volxen ellitold, so we could eliminate certain false positives as well. trivializing our volxen push and then scumreading us for it is probably more annoying than scummy, but it's slightly scummy, and probably scummier as a "yes I agree" read than an original thought.

I think we sort blackjack and springtrap today.

VOTE: blackjack

hi we towned a long time ago and you're still uselessly voteparking us. (volxen is doing this too, but he's been afk/busy sitewide whereas keyser is prodging.)

Reading Volxen’s posts from the last couple pages, they are different here compared to the (small but fresh) scum meta I know from them:-
What is key to note is the composure and confidence of Volxen shown here.
The question is if they have developed as a player (basically their town game or simply improved their scum game)

Can someone bulletpoint town-Volxen or scum-Volxen.

In terms of their recent meta

this feels extremely scummy because keyser has more meta-experience than most of us with volxen and he should be able to form his own opinion.

Guess I'll become a counterwagon and a decent lynch of I dont do something.

VOTE: Blackjacks

Interesting...

and the conclusion is...?

BJ, this is probably your first self-reflective post.

Until then you have been in tunnel mode versus Volxen (like possessed by an agenda to push through Volxen’s lynch since the start).

I don’t think anyone has had any meaningful interactions with you.


What’s changed your vibe then? The Springtap vote?

I feel like this post was made after we already towned because I called out his "sorting vote", and it's kind of a generic boring question that doesn't accomplish anything

Ceejay's ISO is very 'light'. I like where there votes have been, but I can't see the whys/hows of how he went from Springtrap to BJ

so are you scumreading him then, or?

why are you still voting us? are we scummier than gamma/firebringer/whoever to you? because it doesn't sound like it.

There is no need to lynch the ‘i-think-he’s-Town-here-but....-paranoia!!!’

Your vote is bad and you should know this

deadline is approaching and it's odd that this is all he has to say, and his iso certainly at least

implies

that he has some actual scumreads? the first line also feels like something copypasted out of his town meta because it's oddly out of context; nobody is "paranoia"-reading him here.

-r

[Blackjacks]

Itt: keyser tries to convince his top scumread that he's town

[Blackjacks]

Why are you voting us, sir?

[Blackjacks]

And me not having strong reads right now is not scummy. It is a true reflection of me versus the game. It is a tough playerlist.


Take you for example, you were scumming up the game until wagonned and after your little meltdown with RC. And now you’re suddenly “towned”? I don’t buy it. You were probably caught scum, and knew you had to change your focus and now just sheeping RC who everyone knows can push through any wagon. Why can’t my vote be on you? “Voteparking” is a bullshit narrative. You didn’t engage me when I had my vote on you, only now when I’ve been offline for 48hours.

this is a pretty towny post, if inaccurate

[Blackjacks]

Who are the Scums?

[Blackjacks]

what's your read on aster?

[Blackjacks]

so, why is our trolling and volxen tunnel scummier to you than firebringer's "mask" and aster tunnel?

[Blackjacks]

I meant firebringer calling for votes on aster, his early d1 play was pretty similar to ours

[Blackjacks]

I don't have scumreads

[Blackjacks]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Blackjacks]

VOTE: springtrap

/ofrhz

[Blackjacks]

I'd personally say that since we only need to lynch two out of four scum, we can affort to ignore and not lynch the unreadable doodlebags while lynching the readable scumbags. I would not say that we can ignore the unreadable doodlebags because we're going to lynch them anyway. That would be a pretty scummy pro

You know you can just straight up call me scummy/scum right?

while we're at it I got some s/s pings from this

I kind of otherwise townread both slots though

-r

[Blackjacks]

That linked game is... A weird read.

The first 100 posts alone are more interesting to read then this game as well.

The players there seem fun.

Town are often lynched day 1 for being right, probably especially in this setup. I believe Springtrap was Lynched for his insight.

-r

[Blackjacks]

I think lolwagons/mastina has a somewhat higher chance of being s/s because of the firebringer replace?

I wrote it after meme voted us (and searching a quote from a game I just played takes like 5 minutes max lol).

I've pondered about whether this statement is plausible. After further consideration, I've concluded that it is most likely true.

One hour and 38 minutes ought to be enough to put that post together. Moreover, the post does seem to be a reaction to being voted. The relative freshness of the links in the posts indicate that this was not just a post they have in a folder "prewritten shitposts from whenever" and it seems somewhat unlikely that in or before the pregame phase they decided "lets write a special reaction shitpost specifically for Open 741 just in case somebody ends up voting me during RVS which may or may not happen".

despite the post I quoted eod1 I initially read this as probably not s/s with meme (ghost) because if she were thinking about the general idea of meme being scum, she would probably be mentioning the possibility of my shitpost being pre-arranged theatre with them

I just realized that probably doesn't make sense because aster was scumreading meme as her top scumread, so she would have been thinking about it anyway, which probably makes them more likely s/t if anything

(I do think pin probably isn't s/s with ghost either for the same reason though, that and I don't think pin is scum very often here anyway unless maybe with rc)

[Blackjacks]

I lack actual reads, whatever

VOTE: lolwagons

[Blackjacks]

Gamma's treatment of Aster looks like his distancing-from-scumbuddy tactic (which I have a fair amount of familiarity with).
All-in-all, when I was reading the last three pages (four, now), I overall just got the impression that the interactions between those three (Aster, AnonymousGhost, Gamma Emerald) was just gigantic scum theater. Not exactly choreographed, not exactly strategic, but still ungenuine.

any specific posts?

[Blackjacks]

So AnonymousGhost and Gamma Emerald are lockscum of lockscum for me off of both interactions with each other and off of general vibe from their isos from their total contribution across the game.

Lynching anyone other than one of those two would be doing an incredible disservice to the game.

Even though Gamma may not have known I'd come out swinging on him, with his performance in a similar game exposed, he's smart enough to suspect his time in this game is likely limited. (Also, because if I had to say, Gamma is ever so slightly less likely to be scum than AnonymousGhost, but AnonymousGhost is like 98% whereas Gamma is something like 97.5% so they really are pretty much equivalent.)

are these unusually confident reads for you, or do you always do this?

-r

[Blackjacks]

Ceejay not posting for a week is vaguely scum-indicative for him I think (iirc in his game I modded he was talking about strategically lurking to the point of letting himself get prodded in the scum pt), but he also constantly lurks a lot as town so it's probably only a weak indicator

-r

[Blackjacks]

UNVOTE:

[Blackjacks]

VOTE: gamma

Subject: Micro 754: Shut Up and Vote II: Electric Boogaloo [Game Ove]

[Playername] has had an opportunity to react to [Event] but they haven't. This strikes me as scummy.

1) she would see it as an imperative to play disruption on me if she were town
2) she has consistently been a power player in her town games and has done little here
3) i think you guys underestimate just how scummy it is that she decided volxen was scum before he posted and stuck with the read after

4) and most importantly she just

feels

scum. and i thought she was obvtown in the game i played with her and i immediately locktowned her both times i spectated town her. she's not hard to read.

[Blackjacks]

that being said this is kind of a small thing and I only noticed it now because people brought attention to gamma. I'm not super excited by default about the prospect of sheeping mastina's meta guilty

I'm still townreading pin but I'd like to hear rc's theory, I hope it's interesting because we're super bored

[Blackjacks]

Even my hydra partner is Lurking.

[Blackjacks]

Sorry I'll let you two go back to flaming each other

[Blackjacks]

his meta is super active-lurky, and my secondhand information is that he's actually less active-lurky as scum on average?

this one is interesting though because he was just in a game with me so I'd think he would actually have something to say about a case based on me acting different than my town meta

[Blackjacks]

We did that too I think

[Blackjacks]

VOTE: gamma

Subject: Micro 754: Shut Up and Vote II: Electric Boogaloo [Game Ove]

[Playername] has had an opportunity to react to [Event] but they haven't. This strikes me as scummy.

1) she would see it as an imperative to play disruption on me if she were town
2) she has consistently been a power player in her town games and has done little here
3) i think you guys underestimate just how scummy it is that she decided volxen was scum before he posted and stuck with the read after

4) and most importantly she just

feels

scum. and i thought she was obvtown in the game i played with her and i immediately locktowned her both times i spectated town her. she's not hard to read.

[Blackjacks]

nibbui was like the only obvtown player who was doing stuff, why

wouldn't

he be killed?

[Blackjacks]

So for a vote in what iirc was pre-game, I’m somehow scum? What the actual fuck.

what my post was trying to convey is that I think it's scummy that you didn't comment on rc's meta case on me

[Blackjacks]

Wait, Keyzer already hammered Springtrap so we'll have more info tomorrow about wagons and stuff.

@ruru spookycat and Aster's reluctancy on going on Springtrap's wagon by voting each other could back up that theory, but I think it's a pretty long shot.

Third off: does "so we'll have more info tomorrow about wagons and stuff" sound like town talking about someone that they think is going to flip scum?

I'll agree that this post was pretty scummy at least

do you think he starts a thing with you as s/t though?

[Blackjacks]

lol, I wanted to vote aster for being such a fast typer but not responding, but she seems to write posts in batches as town:

Subject: Newbie 1817 - Bolo (Game Over)

her vote does feel agenda-y though

[Blackjacks]

What is this game?

[Blackjacks]

VOTE: Aster

[Blackjacks]

penguin, what do you think about aster?

[Blackjacks]

What if we just agree to live in peace with the scums?

[Blackjacks]

Nvm

VOTE: TTTT

[Blackjacks]

Clemency why did you vote PP?

[Blackjacks]

Aster wrote:
I have a hard time believing a townie really thinks that in good faith, and it seems more likely that he's just saying that in order to defend his scumbuddy Gamma.

the fact that you haven't been able to get a scum!Ghost wagon off the ground since D1 despite the fact that you practically HAD a majority of 5 people speaks for itself

I'm not following what conclusions you're drawing from this

[Blackjacks]

T^4 how much of the game have you read?

[Blackjacks]

Not really. Were you scumreading PP or sheeping someone or

[Blackjacks]

Because LolWagons asked you to?

[Blackjacks]

have you read my posts

yeah

I guess I'm interested in why you decided to join this wagon over the other wagons that built up earlier. What about it appealed to you? Was it just LolWagons inviting you to hop on?

[Blackjacks]

VOTE: PenguinPower

lol

[Blackjacks]

Interesting

[Blackjacks]

INTERESTING

[Blackjacks]

I believe we should Lynch TTTT, or at least make him post something of substance

if I cared about this game I'd be yelling at you to unvote or something.

dead players mostly suggest {gamma, rc, t4}, ofrhz and I are both scumreading T4, and I think rc's case on pin was pretty bad.

it also occurs to me that if mastina (whose posts feel town to me, but I know she's a strong scum player so grain of salt) is scum with one of the scummier-looking players (rc and t4 fmpov rn), she could be forcing a 1v1 with the most widely scumread town player to draw attention away from them, but obviously this is biased by me being fairly unconvinced on scum.gamma, knowing he's lynchbait as town, and not being able to read him very well in general.

-r

[Blackjacks]

I assumed I wouldn't die last night.
But on a whim, I started typing this about ten, fifteen minutes before night's deadline, as a just-in-case I was killed, once I verified via looking at the rules that nsg allows bah posts.

... actually I kind of just processed this post

why wouldn't you just wait for the flip?

[Blackjacks]

although I suppose the lesson of this game is that it's expected for town players to lie to get townread so maybe the answer doesn't even matter

xd

[Blackjacks]

INTERESTING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shjIudejxO4&t=7m28s

[Blackjacks]

Wait, TTTT was town?

[Blackjacks]

Interesting

[Blackjacks]

Interesting

INTERESTING

[Blackjacks]

gg scum

Thanks for modding nsg!

[Blackjacks]

gg scum

Thanks for modding nsg!