Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!

[geraintm]

Hello all.
This is the 14th post so far this game

[geraintm]

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VOTE: Not_Mafia

Do it someone. Sheep him.

Be the change you want to see in the world

So, this was the 14th post after mine soVOTE: not mafia

Someone asked about expereince/strengths. I've been playing a long time, but I am not very good. I am bad at finding scum, but I also end up not voting for townies much either. And I hate day 1s.

Think I've only played with not mafia before though

[geraintm]

I don't even remember signing-up for this game. Sorry if you think my post is bad, but given people are still posting things like 'this is the fourteenth post,' there isn't exactly a high bar to reach.

Thank you for the info though, Walter.

I only did that to generate a random number for my first vote. Its the way I do it

[geraintm]

By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.

Nope. By the end of day 1 no one will have caught scum. Never happened before, it isnt going to change here

[geraintm]

By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.

Nope. By the end of day 1 no one will have caught scum. Never happened before, it isnt going to change here

We just played together in a game where I caught scum day 1

We lynched a townie day 1

[geraintm]

Geraintm is an honest guy, I like that. But I'm scumreading him for not getting the 42nd post.

I am so very confused.

Reaver I am finding unhelpful

[geraintm]

Votecount 1.3

Not_Mafia(3)

~ Not_Mafia(5), geraintm(6), Raya36(3)

RCEnigma(2)

~ Nosferatu(3), BananaCucho(31)

SJReaver(1)

~ RCEnigma(18)

ItalianoVD(1)

~ SJReaver(26)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ WaltertheDunce10(20)

callforjudgement(2)

~ Frogsterking(2), Gamma Emerald(3)

BananaCucho(1)

~ callforjudgement(9)


Not Voting (2): ItalianoVD(18), sordros(6)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-06 11:18:30)

What do the numbers by peoples names mean?

[geraintm]

and why are some in italics?

[geraintm]

Scum was still caught day 1

I am 100% sure I can go through every single game on this site and find someone on day 1 claiming they have caught scum that by the end of the game will be true. but they don't get lynched....

[geraintm]

Number by names is post count as of the vote count.

so, Not MAfia had posted 5 times when the vote was counted?
that seems...odd info to count

[geraintm]

That post by frog seems really weird considering the fact that it was his second post all game. Something to keep an eye on.
N_m do you have any thoughts on the playerbase other than you are proud of the fact you caught scum D1.

I don't get why it is odd?

The interaction between Reaver and Walter at 31 felt weird or awkward maybe. Almost felt like maybe Walter was going for a push but then backed off when Reaver responded. I got the same feeling from 67.

callforjudgement's huge post 50 was a lot. I don't townread it but don't necessarily scum read it either. I just think it's something scum could do to try to take the credit of getting us out of rvs which is what seemed to be happening (55). After reading more it feels like he's either town tryharding or scum trying way too hard to be 'obvtown'. Time will tell.

I kinda like Banana for town. Just as an early gut read.


VOTE: callforjudgement

I don't get the vote. froma read where you say it is either A or B, you pretty hard veer into B
and that is a really obvious sucking up to Banana

hmm
I see where you come from on that.
I think he is a town lean for me because of his more recent posts like 142 and 147.

but then this from Walter, sucking up to Raya sucking up to Banana....well lets just say I have noticed this

[geraintm]

By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.

Nope. By the end of day 1 no one will have caught scum. Never happened before, it isnt going to change here

Wdym by “no one will have caught scum”

I find day 1s fairly useless, way too much noise and people being too clever. no one has got any info to go on and day one is just random....excepting scum never get lynched.

[geraintm]

@ call for judgement - lets agree that I see Day 1s differently to most and leave it there, otherwise we are going to spend a long time getting nowhere with each other and it will be a distraction.

@ Raya - I find it odd that you don't like me saying I thinking you are trying to generate karma with someone by saying you read them town for no good reason, but then agree when I say the same about someone doing it to you...
like....they are the same. you don't get to just say "i'm special" and brush it off

[geraintm]

@raya - well, let me just keep this info for later when we have some flips and it might come up as important.

[geraintm]

Only a quick post before bed, will post properly tomorrow, but i think mynaim this game is to make it last long enough that mod runs out of images of bricks

[geraintm]

Frog is probably town. That's a wild wild take.

everyone is probably town, it isn't a very wild take at all...

Not_Mafia is not a sheep but a cow. I find sheeping accusations underwhelming. If every townie does their own thing, we don't tend to get very far.

VOTE: geraintm

You spend more time talking about how you dislike day one than you do scumhunting. You may have a pulse but it's a weak one.

I have sat here and pointed out a few things that I have noted as potentially as interesting. that is as much as you'll get from me and a vote isn't going to make it any different

am i getting punk'd lmao?

u accused me of active lurking on like my 2nd or 3rd post lmao?

did prodging become AI while i was away im starting to get lost in the sauce rn

VOTE: Nosferatu VOTE: Nosferatu

what's happening? what's happening?

[geraintm]

you might want more....but I am notgoing to fake a bunch of reads just to please you.

[geraintm]

But I only know one person that has voted scum for sure.

?

I see not mafia is being their normal day 1 self too

[geraintm]

those actions.

I think Frogster's initial case on Nosferatu is weak (but seems to be sincere), but Nosferatu's reaction to it has been pretty telling in its own right.

which bit didn't you like?

i dont like unvoting; i dont see a pressing reason to switch off, etc

this I amfine with for example.
note that you are buddying up with frogster and using their logic/wagon to justify your own vote

[geraintm]

callforjudgement continues their focus on optimal play. I suspect their desire to lecture people over how they ought to play is a NAI personality trait.

I do it to make it possible to distinguish between players who play in an anti-town way out of ignorance and players who play in an anti-town way out of choice. It isn't intended to read me, so much as to read other players.

On that note, VOTE: Nosferatu. I was hoping to sort Nosferatu by seeing where their vote moved after I pointed out that it wasn't doing anything useful, but Nosferatu seems happy to be intentionally hard to read and to make it hard for it to scumhunt other players, even after I explained the consequences of those actions.

I think Frogster's initial case on Nosferatu is weak (but seems to be sincere), but Nosferatu's reaction to it has been pretty telling in its own right.

im so over this bullshit read my town pm and weep

VOTE: nosferatu

if ur on this wagon you suck at this game

I can't work out if this is genuine frustration or an pro town fake or a scum fake.
like, if any game you are in is causing you this must anger then just leave, it isn't good for your mental health.

[geraintm]

I find it very unfair to expect everyone who plays Normals to be 100% up to speed on what is and isn’t allowed in them. I had a game where I thought I knew my stuff but I made a fatal error that lost the game for town. No one’s perfect.

oh, i'm this guy. I constantly have to check every claim made in a game because I don't know what it is. sometimes I don't ask because I feel stupid. like.....scum has multitasking. I take it that means they can do more than one thing each night, but I just assumed they could do that already so why is mod spelling it out?

[geraintm]

that is what im saying, im not hinting at a pr tho i think its optimal play as town unless you have a negative utility role which i don't

hmmm, I just came out of a game where scum had to claim on day 1 to get out of pressure and give themselves a few more days before their lynch. this feels...similar?

you might want more....but I am notgoing to fake a bunch of reads just to please you.

I kinda like this statement by gerain because it does not show a willingness to appease and shows he wants to put some thought into it.Though he could just be stalling but Idk

well, im glad you like it. I am not deliberately stalling so much as I know day 1 I will find it very, very hard to get any strong reads on anyone.

I'm town

hey you said that our last game and you were town then too! you really do make this game easy

no neutral means 3p

?

But I only know one person that has voted scum for sure.

?

I see not mafia is being their normal day 1 self too

It's Raya, literally the only person to vote scum for sure this game.

VOTE: CFJ

I still don't get this. raya has voted for not mafia, callforjudgement and walter. are you saying you are 100% sure scum is within those 3? as you follow with a vote for callforjudgement, I assume this is what you meant.

you know what i dont think someone with an avatar such as urself would engage in this kind of pro-town behavior

VOTE: cfg

my god you are making it easy for a wagon to form on you

@ reaver - your vote for CFJ …. I don't like it. you seem happy to jump on wagons

@ italiano - I can understand your reads. by far the most memorable thing in this game to me is nosferatu and when reading through a night's worth of posts they are the one that keeps sticking out. i confess that i can't see scum doing it though, raising their head above the parapet so early in the game when they could have kep a lower profile. but i don't know why town would do it either??

note that Sordos is MIA, they need to a) return b) post better when they do

other thoughts on low posting players
:

Frog - their post history seems entirely aimed at nosferatu, no one else.
not mafia - yep they are going to do nothing day 1 again. like, i have previous at saying i dislike day 1s, but i have reasons. i wish they were just more involved

[geraintm]

@RCenigma - you have call for judgement as scum, but you have just killed Gamma??

[geraintm]

Cfj is the easier to elim, so yes.

bold move.gif

[geraintm]

selfvotes are always scummy

They arent pro town

[geraintm]

Dayvig: Gamma

@RCenigma - you have call for judgement as scum, but you have just killed Gamma??

Cfj is the easier to elim, so yes.

Sorry, no clue what this means. What is dayvig? Gamma is killed?

I assume so, I see no reason for them to lie. I'm just waiting for mod to turn up

[geraintm]

I assumed it was real because I checked the wiki

Normal Guidelines

Vigilantes are considered Normal on mafiascum.net if their kill flavour is indistinguishable from other factions'. As of 9 November 2015, they must also be town aligned.

And i read that and went "oh..." but every game I play there seems to be a new role I've never played with before.
I wish people wouldn't lie fake claims just confuwe me. I'm a simple man and just want things kept all easy

[geraintm]

ItalianoVD
callforjudgement

Gamma Emerald
BananaCucho
SJReaver

Not_Mafia
geraintm
Raya36
Frogsterking

Nosferatu

RCEnigma
sordros

WaltertheDunce10

also
VOTE: geraintm
it's not strong but the thing I called out earlier is the first thing in a while that's actively pinged me

What thing?
Just a quick post before I'm done for the night, but like a bit more from you please

[geraintm]

okay does no one know how the role rules work rn

I thought dayvig was a thing in normals :/

what's up Nosf?

Also that last post by geraint is kinda sketchy
tbh I kinda thought they were a newb but I was thinking about how that would impact this thought, checked, and they have been active in normal games recently, so the idea of the lost townie who might be just taking things at face value doesn't really apply

Oh, is this what you meant?
Do not underestimate my inabiity to understand what is going on in a game. I quoted in a different post why I thought it was genuine

[geraintm]

Charmander just shot up to FoS #2 for his terrible defense of Nosferatu. Arguably it makes him even scummier than Nosferatu.

For reasons I can’t reveal based on the rules, I’m taking Frogsterking out of my scumreads.

Cryptic post is cryptic...

[geraintm]

At the moment I'm feeling like this is a four-scum setup.

You know way more about the game than I do then...

[geraintm]

Charmander just shot up to FoS #2 for his terrible defense of Nosferatu. Arguably it makes him even scummier than Nosferatu.

For reasons I can’t reveal based on the rules, I’m taking Frogsterking out of my scumreads.

At the moment I'm feeling like this is a four-scum setup.

I am on now, kinda swamped with work today/tomorrow.
the frustration could be genuine like banana but I disagree that it would be towny neccesarily.
But the frustration still seems to be evident and still there, which to me seems slightly townier.
I looked through Gerain's posts and I find it telling that his post on his reads seem to target only a few people.
I don't like the response in 392 where he says he does not have strong reads D1.
I disagree with banana on 452, call it out like it is or make it more subtle, plus it did garner a reaction before it was debunked.
I would like to hear 471 by frog be expanded upon.
Frog seems to have this obssesion with nos now.

I have so few reads on anyone day 1, my posts will just be on those who stand out. It isn’t intentional. I do usually try at some point to go through everyone, but I have today off and then it is a bank holiday weekend so my mafia time is less than normal.

[geraintm]

I assumed it was real because I checked the wiki

Normal Guidelines

Vigilantes are considered Normal on mafiascum.net if their kill flavour is indistinguishable from other factions'. As of 9 November 2015, they must also be town aligned.

And i read that and went "oh..." but every game I play there seems to be a new role I've never played with before.
I wish people wouldn't lie fake claims just confuwe me. I'm a simple man and just want things kept all easy

Vigilante and Day Vigilante are normally considered different roles (you can also see a dayvig as Vigilante plus the Day modifier, but Day is abNormal).

Anyway, what's bothering me about this is: if you assumed that a dayvig is legal in Normals on the basis that it's a type of Vigilante, and that the dayvig shot were real, but were aware that Vigilantes were always town, surely you should have assumed that RCEnigma was confirmed town as a result?

@RCenigma - you have call for judgement as scum, but you have just killed Gamma??

There doesn't seem to be much reason to ask about the motivation of a "confirmed townie", unless you want their help sorting a slot (and in the hypothetical world where Gamma is "about to flip", there is absolutely no reason to try to scumhunt the slot, you just wait for the mod to get online). So in retrospect, this post looks more like you were trying to figure out how a townie would react to the dayvig, than actually reacting to the dayvig.

I think you underestimate how puzzled I can be by other players. I had had a conversation with them about how they knew someone had voted for scum, worked out they meant one exact vote on one exact player, and then they just went and vigged someone else. I wanted to know why. They explained and from then I was waiting for the mod to come along and flip the kill and then I would either shout at them for a terrible shot or congratulate them on their amazing aim (as I firmly believe if they had shot scum it was blind luck).
That is my honest explanation of what was going through my head at the time _ someone in very QuickTime trying to work out what exactly what going on, checking the wiki and all. I am not sure what you mean by scumhunting the slot (the person shot?) or trying to concoct a reaction to a day vig.

Have I explained myself well enough.

Your next post though confuses me, where you attack Walter for only interacting with me. You think you have found two scum in me and Walter?

[geraintm]

also 4 scum is kind of insane for 13 players?

Quicknpop in, but i assume 3 always unless something really, really squiffy happens. Like killing 3 scum and the game nit being over

[geraintm]

Weird though we get a scum then a fan post and before that Nm with a vote on a person who just replaced in

What does this even mean?

I was noting the mixed reactions by people.
The main thing that stuck out to me was italiano's meme and scum post.
It is really weird to have a take based on last slot so quickly in my opinion.

The one thing that has me worried though is the lack of a voting block.
You'd think there would be a second wagon, instead it is cfj and everyone else.
Kinda has me suspicious but if this keeps up this reminds of something, but site rules.
The 4 scum being explained is good.

What do you mean, voting block? Is that when a bunch of people declare themselves as town and start throwing their votes around?

[geraintm]

By the way guys at this point in time I have three serious scum reads and I'll disclose them another time. I also have one other very weak town read I'll ISO now.

I wish people would stop being so cryptic. If you have an opinion then say, don't save them for later when they can be tailored to the game state. That is just potentially scummy...

[geraintm]

I think it's specifically referring to when a set of players votes together and moves their votes together

how is that different to what I just described?

[geraintm]

VOTE: Taylor Swift

As helpful as ever. Have you always been like this?

[geraintm]

I think you underestimate how puzzled I can be by other players. I had had a conversation with them about how they knew someone had voted for scum, worked out they meant one exact vote on one exact player, and then they just went and vigged someone else. I wanted to know why.

I guess it's natural to want to know why someone does something weird. But information that doesn't help in figuring out anyone's alignment is

dangerous

to know as town, especially if publicly posted in the thread – the scum will learn it too, and they can make better use of it than a townie can. This is why, for example, it's hugely anti-town to push someone to claim (except if you have a guilty on them, or during a generally agreed-upon massclaim). So as town, you have to train yourself into not asking questions when you can't make use of the answers for scumhunting/townhunting purposes.

Your next post though confuses me, where you attack Walter for only interacting with me. You think you have found two scum in me and Walter?

They're reads that work independently (although obviously, they fit together with each other quite neatly). On day 1, reading players based on their interactions necessarily has to take a lot of possibilities into account; without flips, there's rarely enough information to be able to make use of associative tells. (It's still worth recording them, though, so that when people look back over the thread after a few players have flipped they have the information to understand what they mean.)

oh I am.strobgly anti claim. You can go back through my old games and see that. I am aboutb90% sure that even a town role shouldn't claim except in direct circumstances, because it just doesn't lead to a good outcome. If late enough in the day you get a panicked lynch, just so many reason to not claim.

[geraintm]

whoops did not mean to hit submit there. sometimes im a bit premature.

407 (nos) uh calling you scum is scummy? by self voting as town arent you necessarily playing against wincon?
413 (gamma) in what world is a self-vote not scummy?
436 (banana) hmm odd timing depending on flips this could be an attempt at a counterwagon?

VOTE: cfj

scummy (or to better express what self-voting actually is, anti-town) doesn't mean scum

But it can be enough to vote for them, especially in a tiebreak situation. I hate people being actively anti town. Lying about your role. Fakkng a guilty verdict on someone!

[geraintm]

I like the potted history of geraintm day 1.
It does miss the reasoning for it all though.

Indidnt realise that my way of placing a random vote wasn't 100% kosher. But I think it is a fun way to place a eandom vote so I'm going to carry on.

But you missed why I don't move my day 1 votes much. It just takes a lot for me to place a vote, i rarely see actions on day1 that makes me think scum (have to be things like someone self votjng).
I've said in past games I think town would be better off not lynching day 1, as scum never die day 1.

[geraintm]

My Taylor vote was a joke but now it’s serious

Why?
I dislike you jusybdo this.

[geraintm]

I dislike it when you do this

[geraintm]

When I do what?

you've made 12 posts this vame.

You vite Taylor swift with no explanation. And then say you have an explanation in your next post...but don't give it. I've been in another game with you and I find you on day 1 just...hard.

[geraintm]

My Taylor vote was a joke but now it’s serious

You have no explanation, but the vote is serious?
This is why you are so infuriating

[geraintm]

I'm a Day PT Cop, BananaCucho has a PT

VOTE: BananaCucho

What??

Do you not have the ability to read one post up?

What does it mean?

this games getting kinda boring can someone fake a guilty?

[geraintm]

My god this gane is hard when people are even more oblivious than me

[geraintm]

You can take my last 2 votes as some indication of my thoughts

Vague, no meaning, meant to inspire confidence in your vague scum whispering abilities?

[geraintm]

walter....you seem remarkably unconcerned you have just been voted?
Like...one of the few people I have managed to pay attention to today is not mafia and your interactions with them on this page just leave me confused....

[geraintm]

I guess maybe. I think i see it now.

I saw your join date and then had to go check how many games you have actually played, but this isn't like your first or second game...

[geraintm]

UNVOTE:
reading

Weird opening imo. This is pure gut but more than a bit scummy to me

By the way UNVOTE: a fresh start

huh?

[geraintm]

huh?

The unvote didn't alert me. The uptight entrance of "reading" did. The tone to me was almost like reading the thread was a burden to them.

this feels bollocks

Strange entrance by looker but that is one post.
I love reading.
655, is just really weird in that it sorta shows like cfj said a lack of reading/ disengagement.

nope, going to call you out too. nothing about looker's post was odd

frog's post 662 - I don't get this. feels a load of hot air, no real substance

Nosferatu - your posts stink.
you tag raya as scummy - twive, and don't go anywhere with that thought.
random vote on the banana slot
random vote on shelly

how bored are you? are you just randomly interacting with this game? I see no content from you at all. be better

at italiano - I don't get why you single out Not mafia as being ok>

has ayone played with call for judgement before? are their very earnest posts typical? do they normally post like this as town/hide when scum?

oof yeah i really wanna lynch in cfj, shelly, enigma, or walter. like really really. they cant all be scum but this is some serious opportunism, id be surprised if there arent at least 2 scum in there maybe even all three if walter is scum.

don't like posts like this. caling out a third of the game and saying there is likely to be a scum in there...well duh. it feels like a post they can circle back later to to say "look, I always thought they were scum"

i still feel like cfj will be easy to evaluate after some flips, but is a bit messy today. i am suspicious, but dont want to lynch there today. that said, VOTE: shelly

i dont think its in town's best interest to discuss my vote movement at this time, but im happy to discuss the merits of a vote on shelly or the merits of a vote on walter. im guessing raya will understand what i mean based on past mind-melding at the very least.

nope you don't get to do this. you don't get to say "we aren't allowed to talk about my very cryptic post". why are so many people in this game being like this??

[geraintm]

Yep, I know i have double standards and should post better content, but that isn't going to stop me going ? When I see people make posts with little or jo logic behind them.
My problem will be paralysis, I find it very hard to get a strong enough read on someone to vote for them being scum. But when I do I will say exactly why. None of this "I'm voting x but you can't ask me why" reasons some people are giving

[geraintm]

I will note you haven't actually explained your votes, just deflected back to me

[geraintm]

@ nosferatu - thanks for providing some explanation of your votes. will be useful later

@ call for judgement - this feels like a well meaning post. can you see yourself not voting for Italiano today>

I do tend to be a person who is miselimed cfj. I call bullshit on this statement, I think that all 3 wagons you, Italiano and I are somewhat town.
I should point out that 650 was not enough of a scum read and a vote. I did not think of that number to be associated with the actual percentage, just one that you have a higher chance of flipping town.

i'll note here that most wagons are mostly town. just the way it works

this is a good post. i think there is a third possible explanation though, which is why i moved my vote away from walter. i dont think im going to vote for walter or italiano today, but will expect more from them on subsequent days.

you do like leaving reasons hanging in the air. you did it in 690 too when you said we shouldn't discuss your vote, and you again have hinted at something you know but don't want to share with us.

oof yeah i really wanna lynch in cfj, shelly, enigma, or walter. like really really. they cant all be scum but this is some serious opportunism, id be surprised if there arent at least 2 scum in there maybe even all three if walter is scum.

don't like posts like this. caling out a third of the game and saying there is likely to be a scum in there...well duh. it feels like a post they can circle back later to to say "look, I always thought they were scum"

i think having a PoE of 3-4 people at this stage is pretty good actually. and im not saying i think theres one scum in this group. im saying i think this is where we find most if not all of the scum and flipping here will solve the game.

we have very different views on how helpful this type of post is then. I understand I am not going to change people's minds but it is something I do take note of

@ Italiano when you said "two partners are in that group" - what was the group you meant?

I aim to start going through everyone and give my thoughts on them soon.

[geraintm]

Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch

I don't understand what you mean. vig kill italiano?

I cant get a read on nosferatu at all. their posts are just...whiny

[geraintm]

thoughts on frogster

had a strong red on nosferatu earyl game, loads of long posts.
then switched and said gamma and banana were...but not the associated long posts with evidence.

back to long log posts on rc enimgma

528 - vague post hinting at scum but not disclosing any actual reads

weird read on CFJ about them being scum, but not wanting to lynch. instead focussing on nosferatu and banana

662 - raya is now scum

734 - wants to look at walter in case they are scum (and later asks permission from not mafia to join that wagon)

overall, they are throwing a lot of scum reads around. sticks with them but quickly moves onto the next shiny thing. not impressed

(tryng to go trough these in order of number of posts)

[geraintm]

thoughts on taylor swift

their entrance seems fine,i find their method of reading not townie or scummy just fine. except they manage to get two scum votes as they go through

679 - already said I dislike this when they group so many together as potential scum

690 - said already dislike them saying we aren't allowed to discuss their votes

by 730 have hard turned away from walter

thoughts - it was a good entrance, but posts have dialled back and now just seems in an style disagreement with nosferatu and I don't like the way they entered in hard against walter and now they aren't in their top 3.
I realise I already finding it easy to find bad things to say about everyone and not looking for good things.

[geraintm]

@ frogster

Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch

I'd be more likely to consider joining your wagon if I understood why you scum read him.

This is blatantly a post where you are trying to get someone else to make the case for you to join their wagon. you might not like the way I phrased it "asking for permission" but is the type of post people use where they want to move their vote to another wagon, cant justify it themselves so want to get someone else to write something so they can go "oh yeah, good point, I didn't see it that way, I will join you"

you say I have said you throw a lot of scum reads around but you deny this

VOTE: Nosferatu
.

There was one post from sordoros I thought could be a scum tell because of its potential to be gloating:

Charmander just shot up to FoS #2 for his terrible defense of Nosferatu. Arguably it makes him even scummier than Nosferatu.

Frog, if nos is town, what are your scumreads?

It's difficult to imagine, I would start with Banana and Gamma for the strange townreads.

By the way guys at this point in time I have three serious scum reads and I'll disclose them another time. I also have one other very weak town read I'll ISO now.

VOTE: BananaCucho

I'm down for a Nosferatu or Banana lynch. I also scumread the CFJ slot because of his early interactions

There are three things I wanted to say this afternoon.

#1

I realized I have a feeling that Raya is scum

b]#3[/b] In the same spirit of being proactive and risk averse I'll point out a reason why I believe CFJ is scum

I don't have much new to add except that I'm tempted to do an ISO on the Walter slot because his alignment seems to be a point of contention.

Looker replaced into a slot I had a slight town read on and shelly replaced into a slot I was scum reading and on first glance neither has done anything yet that looks alignment indicative to me.

^^ to me looks like wants to see Walter as potential scum and shelly is scum

and you now vote for me.

for you to deny that you throw a lot of scum reads around and are constantly moving onto new targets is laughable.

but go ahead, explain how I haven't understood your posts...

[geraintm]

Hey Italiano, how's it going? Wagons are great and time to bring fresh energy here.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

is this a random vote because they've played with them in the past?

UNVOTE:
reading

Weird opening imo. This is pure gut but more than a bit scummy to me

bashed this over the head a lot, but I hate this post and their response

gets into a weird back and forth with raya

that's it....
considering they have said they have read the game, this is just weird and disappointing.

[geraintm]

not mafia
I confess, I find them infuriating. their posts are a bunch of non sequiturs. all votes, then saying they weren't serious and then of course they were. it is impossible to get a read on them and no amount of prodding will get them to change.
if anyone else can get a read on them then i'd love to hear why you think they are town or mafia

[geraintm]

I think Frog is probably town

also moving my vote somewhere more useful
VOTE: Walter

raya next.

up until this post, their thoughts have seeminyl flowed consistently. I feel they placed their vote very obviously as a "I don't thinkt ehy are going to get lynched, but I want to be seen to have it somewhere doing something"

moving to walter was a logical conclusion on their previous posts though

There's no wagon on callforjudgement anymore while there is on Walter. Plus I can barely read judgements posts so I need to go back through later

So you voted for Walter because other people were voting for him?

No, I clearly stated in a post who the two people are I think could be scum (Walter and Judgement) and I explained why for each. I switched from Judgement to Walter because my vote was doing nothing and would be more powerful on a wagon

again, wants their votes to be on wagons to be doing something useful.

then a bunch of time interacting with nosferatu (whose flip out early in the game really did derail things for a while)

then gets into it with Call for judgement. very earnest posts

cfj is one of my scumreads... and this was just an observation I made that supports that

I get that. But one of your two scumreads has been close to elim for a few days now and you kinda just....opted to ignore the wagon as a whole until now. Which is cool, looks weird, but it's cool.

I explained it a bit before. It definitely is a bit of a weird case but I'm finding cfj very difficult to read properly and interact with which is kind of why I'm prioritizing Walter, and hoping to be able to get a better ready on cfj when there's more information D2.

wants to lynch walter and call for justice, but wants to do walter first because cant get info/read on CFJ. but they haven't been intereacting with walter recently, they weren't pushing that at all... feels odd

post 761 - flips on CFJ, now has them as town.

I thought before I did the read through I would find this slot fine. and it mostly was until I noticed how they were acting towards CFJ and their read on them. it was all very...confusing and didn't feel consistent, I dunno it just felt off. I thought they were someone I had similar reads to some of the things going on, so I have them pegged as the same as me. will note how they were with CFJ for later though

[geraintm]

I am trying to get through my read throughs on people I might run out of time before the end of today though and then unlikely to be able to do more over the weekend until monday

[geraintm]

Quick check in.

@frog - I havent been scum since I think my first game back in a newbie game. I've been vt game after game after game.
@looker
I havent yet seen anyone strong enough ibread as scum to vote for, so have left my random vote ob. I am always slow to move votes around

[geraintm]

No, it was pointing out they wouldn't find a game where I had been acting differently because I was scum, which I believe they were asking.

[geraintm]

Weekends are not good time for me to post.
This is annoying. I think 2 games ago the same thing happened, I sit there and go i dislike day 1s and get lynched.
I am going to be so annoyed if people disliking me saying that and I become the late wagon because of a combination of boredom and scum.
I havent had time to go through Italiano to see why they are the current largest wagon, I am not going to place a vote there now just to get that one closer to a lynch.

[geraintm]

I just checked there are 16 hours or so to go, and I am about to go to sleep and will miss a fair chunk of that. Will be back on in the morning

[geraintm]

Awake. This sucks. Not mafia and shelly both absent.
VOTE: walter think more likely to get an interesting reaction from that. Wonder how they will react as their posts this page are interesting....

[geraintm]

@mod can we get shelly prodded please, the not mafia slot sorted and if they are to be replaced a delay?

[geraintm]

VOTE: Shelly
They entered the game weird and are ducking out as deadline approaches.

[geraintm]

UNVOTE:

[geraintm]

UNVOTE:

this is also really unhelpful. why unvote? does the slot being inactive make you think its town?

I thought I should unvote if they were under threat of being replaced.

[geraintm]

No, but i assumed we would have an extra 24 hours or so and the way people were saying they would hammer quickly I thought it best to unvotr. I thought not mafia was going to get replaced too.

[geraintm]

VOTE: Shelly

[geraintm]

ok, catching up from last night.
1st, there goes my "scum never get lynched day one" theory. next responding to posts

VOTE: CFJ

He tried to pull the BW off shelly yesterday.

this felt aggressive. this just based on yesterday's play? Frogster was one of the early members of the shelly wagon, that is interesting though.

I can’t say I expected that execute flip, or that kill
Maybe I need to reset?

everyone needs to reset after a night

Call for judgement's post.
that wasa very well reasoned post, trying their best to explain their actions from day 1. I'm going to say I think it was almost too well thought out...
but the game I think moves past this with later posts. but this is probably the most interesting post they have made all game, to me at least.

I'm more interested in cfj's theory than I am worried about how he was town reading shelly although I am suspicious of both.

VOTE: Walter

a ton of mud thrown in one short post.

I can’t say I expected that execute flip, or that kill
Maybe I need to reset?

Or we can just vote you off.

pour quoi?

I can’t say I expected that execute flip, or that kill
Maybe I need to reset?

Or we can just vote you off.

I don't understand this. you say the reason scum get lynched day one is due to error or luck, but you toss in a 3rd reason which is scum drove it?

@Taylor: I am scumreading Gamma, just so you know.

why?

frogster 885-888
I find it hard to follow - wagon wasn't scum driven
there are 4 scum
there are 3 scum
CFj/taylor is scum and panicking

ok but do you know each other's roles? because a scum-town neighborhood is definitely a thing

Scum!Walter would have likely NKed the FN. Nobody would know for sure if it was luck or if Walter knew.

UNVOTE:

we are all assuming walter/italiano claims are good I take it. if they are scum, then game is over. [wanted to put this here so I can go "I told you so" at the end of the game]

rcenigma is the only person who analysies the night action. I tend

ok but do you know each other's roles? because a scum-town neighborhood is definitely a thing

Scum!Walter would have likely NKed the FN. Nobody would know for sure if it was luck or if Walter knew.

UNVOTE:

to never try and guess scum kills, at the end of the game I never follow their reasoning in their thread.

at this point it may be helpful for everyone to claim whether or not they are in a neighborhood. no need to claim neighbors, but it would be very helpful for me to understand my role. i can claim/explain everything or at least something based on what people say.

not in a neighbourhood unlike Italiano. Watching to see who else responds to this, as I can't see any other results in response to taylor's plea yet.

I think my aim early in day 2 is to Look at those people who weren't on the shelly wagon and see their relations with that slot.

Sorry if this post doesn't make a lot of sense, there was a lot to come back to this morning.

[geraintm]

frogster already claimed for me
I am not going to start speculating on setup balance, I am bad enough at knowing what roles even do to even start working out how powerful they are and what it means for the scum side.

[geraintm]

RCEnigma cant really be scum - hes claiming a guilty on someone (at this point given people's PT claims). for RCE to be scum it would require him to be sacrificing himself in at best a 1-for-1 trade. thats a pretty bad play as scum, especially at this stage in the game where scum is already down a goon and town is only down a VT.

as for gerain, i was skeptical yesterday but i feel that gerains posts today have basically towntold. i think it would be worthwhile for everyone to re-read day 1 or at least shelly's posts to see what can be gleaned.

i guess im ready to VOTE: looker
this slot was my second scumread yesterday after shelly and has done nothing to change that.

im happy to claim at some point but i dont think theres any reason for me to full claim right now. ill say that my role is interesting given enigma's role.

just popping in quickly befor ebed

i dont get this. you understand that RCenigma has a guilty on someone and we are all waiting for them to come back and tell us who so we can lynch them...and you go and vote looker? I cannot see us doing anything else today besides killing whomever enigma tells us to

[geraintm]

While that is a lot of power that I definitely could have pushed a lynch through with.

I'm retracting my claim. @Taylor I'm not really gunning for you any more I think your reaction was pretty genuine, interesting you brought up the ascetic modifier because I do believe scum to be ascetic or Walter is just scum.

Mostly this was to prevent wiggle room for scum in the worst case and force a head to head in the best.

Doesn't change my position that burning off wagon probably ends the game.

Wow!
ok....well you suck. a "fake claim"...
I've been on the receiving end of these before, just ruined the entire game for me, them and the whole town. the town couldn't win after it happened. things got so bad between me and the other player I left the game.
I cannot understand this at all. I cannot see what the benefits for town are. I am sitting here and wondering what I would have hoped to achieve if I had made this claim....and I cannot work it out. dumb dumb dumb

VOTE: RCenigma
i was going to follow you the rest of the game...

had to look up what ascetic meant to.

you are just not apologising at all.

{italiano, frogster}
{ts, walter, rce}
{looker, gamma, geraint}
{cfg}
{raya}

where im at right now

VOTE: looker

i'm bemused by this, others question it too. you vote for someone from your null reads?

Can't speak for nos but glad we agree it's likely cfj + Raya

VOTE: CFJ

this...people have been asking for an explanation of their behaviour...and they just go along trying to start a counterwagon to the one on themselves.

UNVOTE:
reading

Weird opening imo. This is pure gut but more than a bit scummy to me

does this look like a distancing play from inexperienced scum to anyone?

it was a weird as anything post...basically the weirdest thing anyone did day 1 that I saw and why I voted for them. I buy the inexperienced scum label, they seemed to flake from the game as soon as they thought they were going to get lynched.

Unsurprising that my wagon is going to be d1 off wagon voters +Taylor.

Oh RC lied? And? Worst case, nothing happens it does nothing to change how town responds to if they have a hood or not. Best case scum panic into claiming a hood. I did realize afterwards that if Walter is scum then the gambit was useless but it's worth playing out anyway.

well, I hope you are surprised I have joined your wagon..
your defence is terrible. you seriously think scum would have come forward and volunteered they were in a hood. the game would have been over immediately, we would have lynched one of them, catch a scum and then vote the other? your gambit had 0% chance of success.

Rayas vote is oozing opportunism with 0 thought. Cfj...idk I could be wrong there and it's ray + gamma or Raya + walter. Cfj is kind of pushed into omgussing me here.

wondering how you are going to lash out against me now...
I dunno about you...you are just going to rile me up in every future game we play together, I wont be able to believe you ever. I hope you are having fun...

[geraintm]

Spoiler:

UNVOTE:
reading

Weird opening imo. This is pure gut but more than a bit scummy to me

does this look like a distancing play from inexperienced scum to anyone?

it was a weird as anything post...basically the weirdest thing anyone did day 1 that I saw and why I voted for them. I buy the inexperienced scum label, they seemed to flake from the game as soon as they thought they were going to get lynched.

How does that reflect on WaltertheDunce10 to you? Since he did the same thing.

---

I never had time to go through walter yesterday, I only did about half the players. I will get round this day to looking over people I haven't gone through their posts.
Sorry. if I had come across the post I would have called it out, it is what I spent most of day 1 doing.

Fwiw gerain I think you're town, I just think you see the game in a kind of 1 dimensional "this should happen, then this, then this" kind of way.

oh yes, I am def this type of player, I freely admit it. I like people to be truthful, to be sensible and not do dumb things. i'm not sure if there is anyone left in this game ive played with before, but I am not smart at this game and im a very surface level player (I think that is the same as one dimensional) who likes people doing things i understand.

[geraintm]

@Looker

I found this. I did call out walter for his exact same post as shelly. i

huh?

The unvote didn't alert me. The uptight entrance of "reading" did. The tone to me was almost like reading the thread was a burden to them.

this feels bollocks

Strange entrance by looker but that is one post.
I love reading.
655, is just really weird in that it sorta shows like cfj said a lack of reading/ disengagement.

nope, going to call you out too. nothing about looker's post was odd

[geraintm]

it is so very normal to vote somebody who isn't your top scum read i've rarely ever had to justify doing so

yeah, you are going to have to run that one by me again...

[geraintm]

it is so very normal to vote somebody who isn't your top scum read i've rarely ever had to justify doing so

justify it some more. just repeating something back to me when I have asked for clarification (and I am not the only one) isn't good enough.

And am I the only one who DIDN’T think Frogster was in a neighborhood?

me, I am oblivious to anything like that. I am all about the surface.

If you scumread shelly for calling my first post scummy, does her flipping scum reflect negatively on WaltertheDunce10 to you (seeing as he did the exact same thing)?

it would have, but the game has moved on since then with my view about walter. it would have been the same yesterday, but what has come out today I don't automatically make walter scum just because yesterday they were acting similar to scum. I think we got very lucky with shelly yesterday

at this point im kinda more confident in raya being scum than enigma. raya is rolefishing and trying to pocket me. VOTE: raya. its interesting that theyre voting each other though. that could be an "uh oh we're caught better do something to make it look like we cant both be scum" play.

do you still think RCenigma is scum though??? or you thinking they are town now?

@frogster - I don't have nosferatu as town. or why Callforjudgement is giving Nosferatu all the cred for shelly getting lynched

what are the odds that cfj vs frog is TvT here? pretty low i reckon. in any case scum is suddenly doing a good job of muddying the waters, and some townies are helping them.

agree, I thought today was going to be a nice simple lynch of enigma but then someone who started the wagon dropped off

what are the odds that cfj vs frog is TvT here? pretty low i reckon. in any case scum is suddenly doing a good job of muddying the waters, and some townies are helping them.

Actually I believe that there’s a pretty good chance it is TvT.

Can you elaborate on your second sentence?

the gamestate was in a really good spot 24 hours ago. we had good leads and the game felt under control. now it feels like chaos, which is partially scum driven im sure (either a wagon was going somewhere they didnt like or they were just being slowly cornered. but its also partially town driven. there are townies stirring shit up which is bad. now suddenly the game feels much less certain and sure - im not confident in where to apply pressure anymore. that suggests that wherever pressure was going 24 hours ago was the right direction

i hope taylor wont mind if i roll my eyes again, as i've just come back from overnight to find the person who began the wagon on the best wagon we had has pulled off and looks like they are looking for another wagon to join once they felt RCenigma wasn't going to easily get over the line. you will excuse me for calling this...mildly weird? like, i think you are town but if you are, i havent seen someone get this much self doubt so quickly in a long time...

Callfor judgements 1042 post

I am glad i wasnt the target for his hints, it would have whooshed past me. please, in all future games, dont drop hints like this with me as i wont get it.
i think you are overthinking the night kill. why look for a really, really confusing and unlikely explanation (mafia's kill got blocked and there is a vig in the game) instead of "i don't know why scum targetted not mafia". you keep saying that not mafia was a weird kill, but that is only to you with your limited game knowledge. i just don't try and guess mafia's logic, i never get it right
but you spending so much time on this i find weird. you have almost gone "thing A is weird. lets look at thing B instead" because you want to make sure everyone doesn't look at thing A. this post is just odd to me. the misdirection is so obvious it becomes unobvious??
i realise my post isn't much use, it isn't providing any evidence, but i found your post weird. it was a really long post to say "i think frog is town and no one should look at not mafia".
frog later just goes huh which would have been my reaction too

there is a little burst of posts about gamma now. Italiano said he didn't like gamma saying CFJ interacting with frogster (back when CFJ's posts were all about frogster before he explained why). taylor agrees. gamma makes a ton of posts fighting back. i dunno, feels like there is one scum in among these, it can't be that every discussion in this game is town vs town.

i need to go through a few players posts to get some better reads on people, rather than just reacting to what is going on. i still hate RCenigma - who has gone noticeably quiet after a few days of being very very active... - and do not want to move my vote right now

[geraintm]

As promised, am trying to get through more people now.
1st italiano. i'll skip over more of their day 1 posts unless I see something interesting

Would like to hear more from Banana other than

After reading through up to page 4 again, what it looks like to me is we were out of RVS once callforjudgment made his serious vote. @ callforjudgment I know you said that we left RVS before you made your post/vote, but I didn’t find that. Can you point to where you saw it move out of RVS?

@SJReaver: Listen I’m not gonna waste time trying to prove to you that I’m town, but can you honestly say that all of your posts have added to the gamestate and have helped in finding scum?

If you’re town your tunneling doesn’t help, but if you’re scum, you picked the wrong person to target.

VOTE: Banana

Gotta say something better than bruh my dude. Even though we’ve all been “fluffing” it overall your posts have felt very apathetic.

like this

I've got to like post 440 and there isn't much to go on. a few votes being moved, and some mor einteraction with banana

Charmander just shot up to FoS #2 for his terrible defense of Nosferatu. Arguably it makes him even scummier than Nosferatu.

For reasons I can’t reveal based on the rules, I’m taking Frogsterking out of my scumreads.

this caught my interest at the time and made me want to watch them from then on.

post 674 - seems an earnest attempt to wrap up the day. it didn't actually add anything, but felt like something

yes but why this wagon? i have alarm bells ringing in my head.

1. Italiano is one of the more familiar names on the playerlist, I've played with them in Newbie 2019 / 2025.
2. Looking through Italiano's ISO, I don't really like the Frogsterking FoS by them. Frogster's posting (for now) reads fairly townie to me.

yes but why this wagon? i have alarm bells ringing in my head.

1. Italiano is one of the more familiar names on the playerlist, I've played with them in Newbie 2019 / 2025.
2. Looking through Italiano's ISO, I don't really like the Frogsterking FoS by them. Frogster's posting (for now) reads fairly townie to me.

Did you really iso? Caused you would’ve seen 490. Maybe you missed it.

has this interaction with shelly

this is up to end of day 1
now for day 2

ok italiano. its time for you and walter to explain why you were so confident in each other yesterday. i dont like your entrance to today, and while i covered for you yesterday i think you owe an explanation to everyone for what you crumbed yesterday.

And I appreciate that a lot. It's going to come up eventually, but I am the Friendly town neighbor and I share a neighborhood with Walter.

ding ding ding, now their posts make a ton more sense.
I see no reason not to believe this. they appeared to me on day 1 to be pretty townie. they didn't ping me much for scum behaviour and their interactions with banana/shelly during day 1, once they flipped scum, came across as town.
once this claim came out, I am sure they are town. the alternative to them being town is that they, shelly and walter have decided on one of the most brazen fakes ever.

I am happy to trust their intentions the rest of the game, and in a tiebreak will follow them.
did you ever say what your reasoning on frogster was?

[geraintm]

Next is looker.
it was their post and shelly's reaction to their entrance that ended up with shelly dead.

• I'm surprised there's not more consolidation of wagons before deadline.

---

VOTE: geraintm

If geraintm is scum, what purpose do you feel his vote on Not_Mafia serves? Do you feel it's a vanity? Is it distancing? Do you feel it's so that he doesn't have to jump on the bigger Italiano wagon?

notes lack of consolidation of wagons.

VOTE: shelly

Okay let's end of day gogo between

geraintm

or

Banana/shelly

my first pick is shelly and I'll switch back to geraintm if necessary.

VOTE: geraintm

---

Spoiler:

ItalianoVD(2)

~ RCEnigma(62), shellyc

WaltertheDunce10(5)

~ Raya36(55), Not_Mafia, callforjudgement, Nosferatu, geraintm

geraintm(2)

~ Gamma Emerald, Looker

shellyc(4)

~ Tayl0r Swift, Frogsterking, ItalianoVD, WaltertheDunce10

Not Voting (0):
With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-06 11:18:30)

their response is to split the shelly wagon and my wagon. I don't see any reason to vote for me (or shelly) being given, they just want to be on a wagon as the day end approaches

post 877 - some theory about the wagon at the end of day 1

• I'm not seeing the benefit of these pseudo-claims. RCE lied, Tayl0r's hinting, and Italiano still hasn't said who he targeted. None of this is trustworthy.

I can see someone being untrustworthy of some of the claims, as people are being unhelpful, but to say none of the claims are trustworthy??

post 994 - says to RCenigma they are effectively at lynch minus 1....and then votes for himself. I have to admit, at the time I thought the self vote thing was a quote problem, and didn't go back and check it. I thought it too bizarre to be anything else

post 1037 - still, like me on the RCenigma wagon. so I like that.

overall, I don't know. their interaction with shelly is just so odd with hindsight. If i read Looker's posts through the lens of "are they town or are they scum"...then of course they could be read as town. but if they are in a team with Shelly, it doesn't look unbelievable. but then there are other implcations..
needs more investment from them, that is true.

[geraintm]

Insert shawshankobtuse.jpg

[geraintm]

I don't get this vig theory at all. I agree that it is weird. Maybe CFJ thinks that people think that he killed NM? That still does not explain this theory though

I didnt think it...until he went to great lengths to say he had no idea why it happened

[geraintm]

Quick check in before bed. Off to see SIL tomorrow so not sure how much I can post.

But Taylor, why are you complaining about the enigma wagoj stalling when you jumped off it?? I don't understand

[geraintm]

Quickbcheck in.
Thought: I still hate enigma, and the growth of various small co unterbwagons is interesting. I need to work out who is starting them and where they were on shellys wagon

[geraintm]

I'm sorry, Sunday and not likely to be able to give the game enough time today. Will be back tomorrow properly, there has been too much today that I wouldn't just be picking at the game.

[geraintm]

Insert shawshankobtuse.jpg

you're the type to vote town in xylo

Votecount 2.5

Looker(3)

~ Nosferatu(13), Gamma Emerald(24), callforjudgement(31)

callforjudgement(3)

~ Frogsterking(28), ItalianoVD(28), WaltertheDunce10(11)

RCEnigma(2)

~ Raya36(28), geraintm(13)

Raya36(2)

~ RCEnigma(20), Tayl0r Swift(41)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Looker(13)

kinda torn here

VOTE: raya

I dont get why there isn't a wagon on you. If people thought not mafia wasnt helpful for town day 1, what are you?

[geraintm]

How did you rule out the option of an Italiano fakeclaim

I ruled it out because it just felt way too brazen for scum to pull off. It doesn't need much in the way for someone to check them or walter out for it all to fall down.

[geraintm]

I've looked at how thr wagons day 2 have moved around as best I can.

Thoughts:

1st to form was RCEnigma. Taylor, cfj, raya and me. Got down to just me and raya,but now looker is on too.

Looker: got to 3 at one point, nosferatu, gamma and cfj

Raya. Now to 4. Was the countereagon to rcenigma, led by enigma themselvrs and then taylorswift.

CFJ: got up to 3. Frogster, italiano and Walter.

Taylor has voted for 3 different people
Looker: 5 people (including themselves). Went walter, looker, raya, frogster, rcenigma

Cfj: rcenigam, then looker then walter.
Nosferatu: looker then raya
Walter: raya, then cfj then raya.

I thibk others have not moved their votes enough

[geraintm]

Up until last vote, looker has been away from the action.
Cfj looked like they wanted to be on the enigma wagon, but off as soon as they could and now their vote is parked uselessly.

Nosferatu : was on looker for ages, switched now to raya.

I dunno where I am going with this. On phone so hard.
Basically.
Don't like cfj. Not a fan of Taylor.
Hate looker

[geraintm]

these are thoughts based on votes, not posts. I can like someone in game but hate their votes and vice versa.

[geraintm]

Should probably add that rcenigma, who i am voting for, has been on raya the whole day

[geraintm]

Sorry, I assumed peoplw would know i haven't had anything from them, I would have been very open before if I had as I see no point in lying.

[geraintm]

Town has no reason to rely on Italiano being confirmed right now or not. Or even at all today.

If Italiano is FN then cool, he gets confirmed today and the day continues as normal. Let's say his target doesn't claim today, scum has to kill him tonight or he hits town tomorrow. It's not like he's in danger of being lynched even without the claim.

coming back from overnight.
man this game is weird.

but rcenigma, what do you mean by "or he hits town tonight". there is no garuentee that the person he targets is town from my understanding of the role

If it is a fakeclaim then why tell me in neighbor chat where he sent it too.
That would out his scumbuddy.

If you know you should be telling us. Italiano is hurting town and you holding back info is hurting town too.

Fuck no
I will let him or his target do it.
I won't answer for either of them.

I think I missed the bit where walter knew the target. walter - can you think of a god reason why he isn't telling us who he targeted?

CFJ again does weird meta analysis that I don't think adds anything to the game

agree with rayas post 1216

Four.

yeah, this is just going to annoy people.

If it is a fakeclaim then why tell me in neighbor chat where he sent it too.
That would out his scumbuddy.

at this point, with the disaster of losing one member of the team day 1, I am seriously considering that the remaining mafia just decided to go F It and try a hail mary play. I've been in games where an early claim just never got countered and they won from that, and I am thinking there is a non-zero chance that is what has happened here. I started off totally on board with claims (I am very, very trusting normally) but this has gone on too long

I wanted to spend time this morning looking at the people with the largest wagons, but this is sidetracked me....

[geraintm]

I don’t like the doubt being thrown around the town right now and it’s so obvious that it’s being done by scum. We were on track to look at the information from the scumflip. I’m pretty sure that’s the direction we were going in today, but misdirection is a powerful tool.

hey, lets not just blame people concerned about your reluctance as derailing today. Rcenigma did a pretty good job too

[geraintm]

Add in the night kill, likely to specifically set up a walter elim, and cfj you are part of the tandem pushing these counter-town angles.

if you think scum were hunting for walter today, why wasn't there a bigger push early doors? I think your guess on scum wanting to eliminate walter isn't right

I don't think it's unreasonable for a townie to have soft-defended the shelly slot.

I agree that the nightkill may have been to set up Walter to look bad. (This doesn't necessarily mean that Walter is town; scum may have wanted him to look bad from the nightkill so that they could use the argument "the nightkill is setting Walter up to look bad" to defend him.)

as you were one of the people who didn't vote shelly , that is mighty convenient for you

and you agreeing here that walter was set up to look bad - I could be wrong but I don't remember any push on walter. why are you and enigma pushing this idea that scum tried to get walter killed?

CFJ post 1264 makes sense to me

@ italiano - that was an awful lot of effort to get to the point that you read CFJ as town. you had to analyse everyone's actions with shelly, and then shelly actions with them. and all you get is CFJ is likely town? i'm not the only one who thinks you have reached. you answer might be right, but you have not got there is a good way.also, 1277/1278 - you are all too clever for me

I view Raya and CFJ as the enemy, and CFJ must be eliminated first because he's the loudest and most active.

oh, I would have flipped that, kill the quiet one. always harder late on to kill qiet ones, loud ones will talk themselves into a mistake

Anyone come to a similar conclusion about callforjudgment in 1275? Or am I off in this?

That’s not really part of my read on him at all

My heart and my gut say to townread cfj, but my head is telling me the few bits of potentially scummy behavior from him are worth pursuing
So I’d vote him around deadline but I’d rather listen to my gut vs. my head

This post looks like horse crap. Shoot Gamma up to FoS #2.

Raya it's your insistence on voting Walter that make me read you as scum or stubborn townie.

agree with this, this is one of those posts I hate from people where they give themselves weasel room to join a wagon at a later date.

having aquick look at raya's posts, see if I can get a handle on them. this may not make sense unil the end and be abit random. i'm specifically looking to see what their interactions are with CFJ as others are convinced by that link

@Taylor: 952 is a joke right?

@Raya: Did you ever look into Walter’s meta? (224). And did you ever go back? (299)

And am I the only one who DIDN’T think Frogster was in a neighborhood?

I skimmed some Walter meta and I didnt go back through cfj

hmm, avoids CFJ
post 1064 - calls out CFJ for deflection
1065 - dislikes CFJ again

1099 - seeing CFJ as town

1156 - says CFJ is wrong
(most of their posts are dealing with the claim and wanting it sorted)

1294 - agrees with italiano that CFJ feels town
1296 CFJ is town

overall, their posts have been on a fairly limited number of topics. the claim and wanting it sorted, CFJ and the slow role of switching from seeing them as scummy to town, and insistence that walter is scum (but raya is voting for RCenigma, so I dunno why in my head I thought they were voting walter and they wer etheir biggest scum read).

their read of CFJ as scum never felt...strong...but very vocalised....and now is town but with weak reasons. if someone was setting themselves up to distance from their partner, I can see why it would be read that way.

[geraintm]

@looker

1st: I think thr chance of scum fake claiming isn't zero, but not high.

2nd: stop with the self votes. If you hate this game this much and as much as you say it does, take a mental break.

[geraintm]

Looker is the sort of person I find infuriating to play with. Not mafia is another, I cannotnever get reads on their actions. There is a difference between not wanting them in the game and thinking they are scum though. Sometimes

[geraintm]

@ italiano - that was an awful lot of effort to get to the point that you read CFJ as town. you had to analyse everyone's actions with shelly, and then shelly actions with them. and all you get is CFJ is likely town? i'm not the only one who thinks you have reached. you answer might be right, but you have not got there is a good way.also, 1277/1278 - you are all too clever for me

Yeah there is more, but I want to clear up a few things first. Callforjudgment seems to be the first piece to where I think I’m going.

Get on with it then, I knkw we have ages to go but you are driving a lot of today and we can't wait 2 days for each person you want to tick off

[geraintm]

agree with this, this is one of those posts I hate from people where they give themselves weasel room to join a wagon at a later date.

it's only if nothing I would rather vote is around. Since you say this, what do you make of my similar statement from D1?

I've just gone through my posts interacting with you, and couldn't find me telling you off for waffling like this. I might have skipped your poat when you did this, when didnyou?

[geraintm]

Who gives a fuck about your advice? Take your misrep elsewhere.

This response isn’t nice. My message to you (which was similar to the one which the mod said was over the line) was that if you are finding entering this thread this unpleasant then take a break and work out why. You say it is because you are finding multiple fake claims infuriating, and that may be the case, but if two different people in this game have both effectively said “you are being a bit much” and your response if to tell me to fuck off....well I would wish you looked at yourself rather than lashing out.

I think trying to find teams is a scum tactic - mafia know how to distance

I like this though as a general rule. Def of two unflipped slots so early in the game. Day 2 and they will know everything we are trying to do to link people together and go all princess bride on us.

[geraintm]

Wow, godwin's law in a game of mafia. That's a new one on me....
Have I been out of control?

And me saying voting for yourself is bad....well I'm not the only person who has said that in a game of mafia.

I mispokse then if I thought you found all the fake claims infuriating. That was how it was.comjng across from you though

[geraintm]

cathcing up

I think NM was killed because scum thought he was a pr since he didn't say that much.

i think trying to guess is a waste of effort. but a few posts later you go off on the deep end with a theory. ho hum...

but frogsters post at raya explaing why the defend - to deflect - that is a possibility

frogster then goes off the deep end again with how the scum are intereacting. and that was a waste of time too

without not mafia im losing my motivation to play

does anyone want to fake claim a result?

is the plan that if enough people fake claim, eventually one scum is going to actually claim?
[quote="In I have a very paranoid reason to suspect italiano may be fakeclaiming. I cannot reveal why at this time though.
[/quote]
walter sticking italiano in their (long) list of scum is worrying. i could maybe see a case where italiano is town and walter is scum, but not the other way around.

Votecount 1.13

shellyc(5)

~ Tayl0r Swift(42), Frogsterking(46), ItalianoVD(68), WaltertheDunce10(73), geraintm(70)

WaltertheDunce10(4)

~ Raya36(57), Not_Mafia(25), callforjudgement(68), Nosferatu(83)

ItalianoVD(2)

~ RCEnigma(66), shellyc(70)

geraintm(2)

~ Gamma Emerald(80), Looker(55)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-06 11:18:30)

MOD REMINDERS

• prodding Not_Mafia
  
• looking for a replacement for shellyc

Out of these I’d rather we come back to Geraint. I’d also be okay with Italiano, but Shelly and Walter are townreads (at least, I was townreading Banana)

• Gamma Emerald asked for a votecount and here it is; so who are you going to vote?

---

• Why did CFJ ask me to move my vote but not RCEnigma? Why are players ignoring RCEnigma?

Out of the two main options rn I think I lean towards voting Walter. I think while the Shelly/Banana slot isn’t doing much now what it did before felt quite towny, in the sense that it felt genuine and pure.

This is what I'm talking about
I gave a similar evaluation of my willingness to vote certain slots here, at least as I see it

then i either didn't notice them/didn't think they stood out enough to comment on them, or maybe i didn't class them in the same weaselly posts where the person is asking to be persuaded to join a wagon. that is worse than when you say at some point there are 2 people you want to vote for but arent sure. that could be evasive (and if there is a pattern of it then i will note it)

frogter post 1363 - they read an awful lot in someone moving their initial random vote

taylor's post 1378 - i can sorta see their own thinking here

i think cfj will be an extremely high-info lunch. but i think raya is by far the most likely to be scum, so id still prefer to lunch there. we can dine on cfj tomorrow.

hmm I read this as sort of scummy in setting one person up after the other.

this though looks like double standards. callng out taylor for wanting to lynch two people in a row, but walter is itching to lynch taylor after one of raya/cfj gets lynched. if the lynch goes through on raya or cfj and they turn up innocent, then i am marking walter down for this

italiano votes for Frogster at the very end. after spending so much time talking about CFJ, they hint they have loads more they want to do - ask three pointless questions to three people and then vote frogster. i don't get it....

we are still ages away from the end of the day so i dont feel the need to be considering if i really want to move my vote from the person who i thought looked terribly scummy earlier today. but it is really hard, you are all making it hard

[geraintm]

sorry, messed up my quoting

[geraintm]

sorry, CFJ. you just quoted italiano and then go off on Frogster? Im confused

[geraintm]

oh, it wasn't obvious because you said "frogster acting this way" when the action you were quoting wasn't theirs

[geraintm]

I believe Raya has maybe played with some other players here before?

Popping in quickly as I read in another game a bunch of dudes just vigged a nice old lady and want to rush the vote along, but don't think ive ever played with raya before.

I'm kinda stricken by how thr rcenigma wagon hasnt just gone away. Like, I dont think people are strongly reading them as scummy. I wanted to lynch them at the time, I havent yet worked out who id like to lynch more, but unsure why others are so sticky.

[geraintm]

Going to be blunt here.
There doesn't seem to be any wagons developing. We have 2. Enigma on 3 and raya on 4. Raya, if you don't want to get lynched this round I feel you are going to have to step it up somehow because othwrwise we are likely just going to end up voting you out.
If anyone else feels different to my general viewpoint, then say.

This is irrespective of my view on you btw

[geraintm]

How is Enigma on 3

I believe geraintm is not counting the self-vote.

Yes, this

[geraintm]

Why would you assume your reasoning is different from everyone else's? How willing would you be to eliminate Raya

i usually take an odd look at games. the way i get reads on people is usually from a different direction to mostpeople

i did look at raya in my post 1037. they looked suspicious, but from a point of view of looking for them to be scum. i havent done a full depth dive at everything raya has posted yet. i wouldnt vote for them yet, i dont want to move my vote right now

[geraintm]

Also I feel like it's getting close to time for Raya to claim.

you arent even on the wagon and it isnt at L-1....[/quote

]
I said something similar a few days ago. I didn't say claim, I just said that the day seems to be drifting towards their lynch and they should probably try and alter the course if they didn't want to get killed.

Don't think you hassled me over my post though :/

[geraintm]

What do you think is going to happen over the course of the next 48 hours?

maybe youll stop blatantly rolefishing or youll be the one at L-2?

yep, it is a bad look for frogster.
they have the appearance of someone who has their vote placed no where useful, but want to be on a lynch but can't work out an easy way to get there. and then list 3 different places (raya, gamma and CFJ) where they are already starting to think about going.

will saythat raya is acting either very cool or very disinterested about their status as leading wagon

VOTE: Gamma I'm going to go ahead and adjust my vote here but I will move it back to CFJ in a heartbeat. I believe CFJ is open wolfing, Gamma is coasting. Raya is my third choice for likely scum flip but still light years away from these two.

oh look, frogster moves their vote...to someone with no other votes?

CFJ post 1469 - man, another long analysis. it ends up with looker, but I am too dim to follow how it got there...

I will reveal my night action confirmation upon twilight.

please don't do this. you cannot be sure there will be a long enough twilight for you to be awake or post or anything. people have been asking all day for you to come clean and now saying you are going to wait until a time that might not exist is just... what happens if you miss your opportunity and we end up in Day 3 with you still being able to wait on your claim?

Also I feel like it's getting close to time for Raya to claim.

you arent even on the wagon and it isnt at L-1....

I said something similar a few days ago. I didn't say claim, I just said that the day seems to be drifting towards their lynch and they should probably try and alter the course if they didn't want to get killed.

Don't think you hassled me over my post though :/

Is it Frogster fishing or do you think he actually intends to hammer

oh, I am 99% sure they have no intention to hammer and want a claim.

[geraintm]

Just checking in after taking the cat for a walk (don't ask)
Was that a hammer?
Is it now the mythical twilight time?

[geraintm]

If it is any use, i would likely have voted frogster, they have all the traits I likentonsee

[geraintm]

Entering the day, going to catch up as best I can

Tayl0r Swift has been killed last night! She was a

Spoiler:

town pt cop

First, did anyone see any hints of any results they got?

I received a Friendly Neighbour's PM last night (and I'm pretty sure I read it correctly).

Italiano is Town.

you didn't want to hold off on the claim like yesterday?

VOTE: gamma

I think you ended day 2 with it between RCEnigma and gamma, any reason you jumped hard on gamma?

Happy to be alive, I gotta say. I expected to be killed, but kinda wouldn’t be surprised if I didn’t and here we are.

I fully expected you to be killed too.

@italiano - why are your reads on looker and enigma so different to everyone else's?

1589 - i'll have to read that more later.

So, trying to look at votes over the past 2 days to see what I can make of things.
Day 1, the lynch went through with
Frogster
Me
italiano - assume town
Nosferatu
RCEnigma
TAylor < dead town
Walter - assume town

Day 2 went through with

CFJ
Looker
Nosferatu
RCEnimga
Taylor < dead town
Walter - assume town

the people on both lynches were
Nosferatu
RCEnigma
(TAylor)
Walter - assume town

[as an aside, Gamma was on neither, rest on 1 or dead]

SO, I have italiano in my town pile.
I have walter in my strong town pile

I ended Day 2 with Frogster as the person I would likely have been voting for, RCenigma as someone I didn't care for at all and their hammer just stank.

this leaves me considering Frogster - for being on the shelly lynch and their suspicious activity end of day 2
Nosferatu - on both lynches
RCenigma - on both lynches and the horrible lynch and everything else

as my top 3 suspicions.
Do people agree with that? I am generally a player watches what goes on and follows actions, and these are the people who have caused me to be suspicious.

[geraintm]

Also I thought Taylor was traffic analyst and not PT cop. PT cop with friendly neighbor neighbor suggests walter scum actually, if scum isn't already in a PT with town it makes the pt cop a full cop with hard clears instead of a soft investigative.

Haven't checked for who Taylor targeted night 1 but they would be essentially confirmed, not actually confirmed since jk is possible but they never mentioned no result.

having to check things on the wiki as I go here. I really don't understand how people could have suspected the difference between a Private Thread Cop (which I hadn't heard of before this game) and a traffic analysist (which I didn't know was a thing until you just mentioned it).

did you think they were a PT cop before or after you made your claim?

[geraintm]

at this point it may be helpful for everyone to claim whether or not they are in a neighborhood. no need to claim neighbors, but it would be very helpful for me to understand my role. i can claim/explain everything or at least something based on what people say.

as for your second point i realize that its only the two of you in that neighborhood, but there could be other neighborhoods, right?

frogster, why would you think that the setup is a series of two-person neighborhoods vs four scum if you arent in a neighborhood? this post also made me assume you are in a neighborhood.

Is this a hint they have found frogster in a neighbourhood? 939 has frogster and Nosferatu as taylor’s top two scum reads

RCEnigma are you ascetic or do you have any other modifiers?

i guess i can also add that my night action last night failed.

Failed – does this mean they got no result or that they targeted someone and it said no? I take it to mean it was blocked.
I forgot about this when I asked if taylor had hinted at their result until I have just found it. Clearly they couldn’t have hinted at a result as they didn’t get one.
Except….does 934 mean they were asking RCenigma if they knew of a reason why if taylor had investigated them they would have got a no result/blocked? That is what it looks like to me, or am I reading that wrong??

my role is not powerful so im assuming theres other town power out there of sorts.

I disagree with this. Having a private thread cop when the neighbourhood is public feels like a cop if they got a hit.

i think cfj will be an extremely high-info lunch. but i think raya is by far the most likely to be scum, so id still prefer to lunch there. we can dine on cfj tomorrow.

This to me sounds like they targeted RCenigma and got that null response and they want to lynch them to find out why

i think cfj will be an extremely high-info lunch. but i think raya is by far the most likely to be scum, so id still prefer to lunch there. we can dine on cfj tomorrow.

This is the best I can find late on Day 2 on who taylor would target in the night.

I now thik taylor would have come back today with a possible result on Frogster
And they would have likely come out with saying they tried to get a result on RCEnigma but it failed.

I am now deeply suspicious of RCEnigma.
You got anything to say?

[geraintm]

In post 1378, Tayl0r Swift wrote:
i think cfj will be an extremely high-info lunch. but i think raya is by far the most likely to be scum, so id still prefer to lunch there. we can dine on cfj tomorrow.

This to me sounds like they targeted RCenigma and got that null response and they want to lynch them to find out why

am an idiot

I just realised I got confused between CFJ and RCE when going through.
I think what I wrote doesn't make as much sense now

[geraintm]

god I feel foolish.
trying to work out if what I wrote has any value.
I think I still think Taylor targeted RCEnigma night one and got a no result. I think the RCFJ (I actually wrote RCenigma then, I am confusing myself so easily) must have been something else Taylor was onto.
I am not sure now if they would have targeted frogster or RCEnigma last night.

[geraintm]

Are you saying you think scum!Nosferatu and scum!RCEnima would be voting together? As partners?

i have frogster there too, and i think i have them coming off worse from my looking over the votes. RCenigma is my second, nosferatu i guess third but i think there should be a clear gap between rcenigma and nos.

[geraintm]

Are you saying you think scum!Nosferatu and scum!RCEnima would be voting together? As partners?

i have frogster there too, and i think i have them coming off worse from my looking over the votes. RCenigma is my second, nosferatu i guess third but i think there should be a clear gap between rcenigma and nos.

I'm still trying to understand what exactly you thought was suspicious end of day 2. Do you care to elaborate?

im in online training all day today, I will get back to this, promise. excuse patchy quick post

gamma and CFJ are playing adifferent game to me and I wish I was in on it

I guess I’m asking you a hypothetical. Do you think both scumpartners would be on both wagons together back to back days like that? How likely do you think that is?

I guess it isn't that likely.

I guess I’m asking you a hypothetical. Do you think both scumpartners would be on both wagons together back to back days like that? How likely do you think that is?

ain't clear to me

frgoster 1362 - you come to the same conclusion about RCenigma tat I did in my post 1602

VOTE: rcenigma
@looker - among us is indeed mafia on steroids

[geraintm]

I misquoted in the last post. The aint clear to me was about frogster and his theory on scum partners

[geraintm]

I know this is insane, but I'm actually speculating on an Italiano + CFJ team right now, and there is a very clear reason why.

this was the bit j meant to say wasn't clear to ne

[geraintm]

What do you think is going to happen over the course of the next 48 hours?

maybe youll stop blatantly rolefishing or youll be the one at L-2?

yep, it is a bad look for frogster.
they have the appearance of someone who has their vote placed no where useful, but want to be on a lynch but can't work out an easy way to get there. and then list 3 different places (raya, gamma and CFJ) where they are already starting to think about going.

VOTE: Gamma I'm going to go ahead and adjust my vote here but I will move it back to CFJ in a heartbeat. I believe CFJ is open wolfing, Gamma is coasting. Raya is my third choice for likely scum flip but still light years away from these two.

oh look, frogster moves their vote...to someone with no other votes?

Is it Frogster fishing or do you think he actually intends to hammer

oh, I am 99% sure they have no intention to hammer and want a claim.

frogster, you asked what I didn't like about your play at end of day 2.
quoting what I wrote before

[geraintm]

hmm that is a good point.
Ill unvote for now.
VOTE: unvote

Quick weekend pop.
Agree would have been too quick.
Wish he came back though.
And the others would work out what they are all talking at cross purposes about.

[geraintm]

@looker

I tracked someone to you last night. It was not Italiano. As such I’m figuring it was someone else who is also FN.
Italiano, if you’re comfortable, I’d like if you could specify your full role, because I think the puzzle will snap into place with that information.

FYI I’m not revealing anything I wouldn’t reveal at the end of this process anyways.

I believe the you in this is CFJ.

[geraintm]

Someone have intent to hammer?

Hammer who?
I have no idea what thr VC is

[geraintm]

Catching up properly after the weekend

• Poor RCE.

---

@looker

Spoiler:

I tracked someone to you last night. It was not Italiano. As such I’m figuring it was someone else who is also FN.
Italiano, if you’re comfortable, I’d like if you could specify your full role, because I think the puzzle will snap into place with that information.

FYI I’m not revealing anything I wouldn’t reveal at the end of this process anyways.

I believe the you in this is CFJ.

So Italiano sent a Friendly Neighbor message to Nosferatu (who confirmed) on N1, and then Gamma tracked WaltertheDunce to callforjudgement on N2? Is there any reason to rule out a Nosferatu/callforjudgement scumteam?

Spoiler:

• Poor RCE.

---

Looking back on italianos claim at classified.
I think it is very odd gamma has no reaction at all like she already knew that. But there is nothing there at all. It is very strange.

What reaction would you expect?

Now this is interesting.

I THOUGHT Italiano was odd night FN and Walter, my n2 track target, was even night FN. I get the feeling that isnt correct based off this response, in which case I think Walter’s chance to be scum rises a fair amount.

FYI tracked RCE N1, my thought process has been checking people somewhat visible but without claimed active powers (RCE posted the fake day vig which put him on my radar, and Walter was the neighbor of a PR so I thought maybe he might either be PR or have an action).

So Italiano sent a Friendly Neighbor message to Nosferatu (who confirmed) on N1, and then you tracked WaltertheDunce to Italiano on N2? Then, instead of claiming, Walter voted you? Is this correct?

---

• Did Italiano think I was trying to quicklynch RCE?

VOTE: callforjudgement

What looker no I voted because gamma did not know italiano's claim. Which seemed off to me.
VOTE: unvote

So you voted him for not paying attention?

---

• That ItalianoVD thought scum would quickhammer RCE at L-3 but not Gamma Emerald at L-2 is curious to me.

I'm trying to follow all the streams of your logic here looker

First, I don't think the Nosferatu/CFJ can be ruled out. I don't see a reason why the targets of the friendly neighbour can't be scum, that is just poor judgement from the friendly Neighbours.

but then you sorta throw shade at walter and italiano in the rest of the post

Post 1740 from CFJ

I am trying to work out Gamma's logic.
if they are town, I don't really get it. they seemed to be aggressively chasing people for no good reason. and his stated logic feels off.
but, if scum I don't get it either. they weren't really at the top of the pile for most likely to get lynched today, and they went and brought a ton of attention to themselves. Would be a case of oversmart scum I think.
I am not clever enough to work out what it all means for balance purposes, I've never been involved in modding games and half the roles I come across are new to me. i'll accept what others say about balance.

Looker over here throwing a wrench into everything. Nosferatu/callforjudgment scumteam. What on earth?

why can't they be scum? or at least one of them.

I think I may have been blocked unless I can be confirmed. If not then roleblocker is there.

oh, you know something else.

Gamma 1749 - this looks bad to me. it is almost like they are counting down the reasons they cant be town.
will note that Gamma was not on either lynch.

I think we all need to drink some tea and calm down.

Don't understand this.


think I want to do this VOTE: gamma

[geraintm]

Hammer outside of Gamma today, and figure out a way to confirm/deny his role.

Really?
Who would you suggest?

[geraintm]

@frogster you aren't voting anyone right now, you aren't pushing a lych, you just don't want gamma killed. you seem like you are trying switch the trolley to a different track

[geraintm]

@looker
Sorry, I was trying to turn a stylish phrase.

I only picked on frogster nkt voting because they were saying the votes for gamma were so bad.

[geraintm]

I am assuming italiano knows more than me, about cfj and Nosferatu, because I cannot see a known reason why they cannot be scum

[geraintm]

Tirus, you know we've voted off one scum already right?

[geraintm]

italiano, with his last dying breath, managed to tell me they were town

[geraintm]

@CFJ - I cannot do meta analysis of games, but from what I know town had 2 players who could confirm to others they were town, you have someway of confirming if people are town and we had a cop who could identify people with private threads. that almost feels like at the end of night one 8 people could be cleared in best case scenario for town. does that seem right?

[geraintm]

I am vanilla townie

[geraintm]

don't have time to post properly today. will do tomorrow, looking at votes. also have weird theory that is nagging away

[geraintm]

Why can't CFJ just be a mafia role blocker?

I don't yet know who Walter targeted last night. I've already claimed my action.

If I were a Roleblocker, fakeclaiming as Alien, I'd either have to block Walter (thus blocking him regardless of his target), or else not block Walter (thus not blocking him regardless of his target). So there might well be a discrepancy in the claims that could be detected. As it is, being an actual Alien, I strongly suspect that Walter's target last night was Titus, because it's the only target that's consistent with the claims so far. This is information I can deduce as an Alien, and wouldn't be able to as a Roleblocker, and thus should be strong (but not conclusive) evidence of my role.

I am not sure I follow CFJ's logic here in why he needed to target Walter??

I'm inclined to believe CFJ's claim, I often FOS PRs.

but I was already at this stage in believing CFJ. and I think if it isn't true we will work it out by when it matters.

My FoS is Titus.

is this real?

i am trying to guess what role scum could have to throw off the game's progression. They need something other than Tracker, i'm not clever enough to work out what role's they could have that would compliment that and the neighbourhood thing and the PT cop

[geraintm]

@looker I can only see titus being not town if they have a strongman type role to counter CFJ's claim. I don't kno whow likely that is. 4 scum would mean very weak role for those scum left - but might explain why shelly got lynched day one?

@frogster I don't know what OCEAN model is.

I am not going to guess what gamma was thinking as they were getting lynched. i wait until the end of game, i suspect their posts on entry to the dead thread will make interesting reading. gamma's posts look like they were just trying to not give anything up when they got lynched, they look like they had mentioned everyone else in the game.

[geraintm]

@

Titus

: I'd also be interested to hear your opinion on geraintm's vote progression (#824, #830 (just before deadline), #834 (after deadline extension), #859, in fairly quick succession). I saw this as indicative of geraintm as town, but you seem to have a different opinion on it? Note that I consider the hammer in #834 to be non-alignment-indicative because shellyc was inevitably going to be the day's elimination at that point.

I think my logic went something like

RCENigma had just said they wanted to lynch whomever got to Lynch minus 1 first.

@mod can we get shelly prodded please, the not mafia slot sorted and if they are to be replaced a delay?

I then asked that Shelly get prodded and wanted Not mafia replaced. I thought Not Mafia had missed their prod and were about to be replaced and I didn't want Shelly lynched with a player (Not mafia) absent. That was what this post was about. the "if they are to be replaced" was referring to Not MAfia, not shelly

CFJ then points out that shelly was posting elsewhere, and i immediately voted for them once I knew they were ducking this game.
backup mod came in and said they were replacing shelly and prodding not mafia - but I was under the impression that not mafia was going to get replaced too.
mod then did their weird pausing the deadline thing and I unvoted, I thought that once a player was replaced there would be an automatic deadline extension because...well I just thought that is what happens when close to a deadline and there is a new players. because you cannot expect to replace in, read an entire thread and post with only 2 hours to play with. not mafia later tells me that this isn't the case (post 846)

No, but i assumed we would have an extra 24 hours or so and the way people were saying they would hammer quickly I thought it best to unvotr. I thought not mafia was going to get replaced too.

that is me saying all that.
my memory of that period was feeling very harassed. It was a Sunday and my weekend access if normally very low so I was having to do my best.
I hate, hate getting bounced into deadline lynches because I always seem to get pushed into bad ones. shelly though had been aplayer I had felt had been more weird than anyone else day 1 so if I was going to lynch I found them acceptable. the mod and my confusion about which players were going to be replaced didn't help at all, I hope that explains what was going on with me.
I wanted to try and put my point of view across because titus seems to be solely going on actual votes and the only person trying to defend me is someone who isn't me

[geraintm]

I believe #1951 shows signs of the emotions agitation and/or anxiety and/or some other negative emotion.

I believe this is causing geraintm to post out of character.

I don't believe at this time that this is AI. I can cross-reference #1951 with something I saw earlier.

I was trying to convey the emotions I was having when I was posting, is that what you mean?

[geraintm]

sorry for not being more active today. I don't have any extra info and there are better players in the game than me who can work things out. im fairly sure this game is going to end in a few days with a forced win for us, no mater what I thought.
I have no objectionwith the plan as laid out

[geraintm]

I'm sorry for not posting more.
I tried a few days ago to respond to my actions on day 1, but jo knew really replied, so that combined with weekend meant I didn't feel much desire to post.
I'm fairly sure I am going tonget lynched either today or tomorrow. I'd obviously prefer to not get lynched today as I know it won't be helpful forntown, but others can work it all out and decide what is best. I was more than happy to go with the plan of locking me up tonight.

I can post more tomorrow to explain more of my actions that people think make me a target to be lynched

[geraintm]

I town read Titus and Nos lightly for not hammering me.

ok, VOTE: forgsterking
i am bemused by their focus on titus. like titus is one of only 2 people who are def town.
even in the CFJ is scum scenario, titus is still town/. why even bring it up??

and why don't I get any cred for not hammering you?

frog's post 2022 is weird. they have just been everywhere today...

i'm basically fine with CFJ plan in 2028. I dunno what else to say about me and people thinking I am not town. it means people think I voted my partner day 1 when I didn't need to, that day 2 went through with no scum on the wagon and I voted my partner on day 3 too?

[geraintm]

zap!
Yes, I agree day has stalled out.
Would you prefer frog?

yes

[geraintm]

If I were Frogsterking, I would hammer geraintm before I was killed.

I should have

[geraintm]

I think the game is not quite solved yet right? I am interested in reading the Looker case.

if you are going to do it, then do it quickly as today is drawing to a close.
the inability of any wagon to get over the hump today is perplexing....

[geraintm]

I don't have much to say, I got prodded but when I went to bed last night only 2 people had posted anything.
I fear I am going to get lynched because titus says so and has the strongest voice and there is zero enthusiasm from anyone left in the game to do anything else

[geraintm]

Thank you for putting me out of my misery. This game has not been fun to play at all. Will post more tomorrow when I have time, but I don't think scum could have gone worse at nearly every single stage of it.

The mafia thread is not a happy place

[geraintm]

I'm looking forward to seeing the dead chat too btw, see what they were thinking

[geraintm]

so, I have thoughts about this game.

first, it was my first time being scum in a long time, so I was kinda excited.
but boy did this game go South fast.

Day 1, we lost an original member of the team. no biggie.

but I got so trapped voting for Shelly. it shouldn't have happened I don't think, the end of the day should have been walter getting lynched, but shelly disappeared when they were needed to actually vote. and every time I was making an excuse to not vote shelly, something would come up where I felt very, very forced to vote otherwise I would look incredibly suspicious.
them posting elsewhere on the site for example.
it didn't help that they were going to be replaced but there be no extension, I just assumed a replacement that close to deadline would kick it back a day or two so I unvoted to take the pressure off shelly, but then got told that wasn’t the case, combined with them posting elsewhere was bad.

And then not mafia posted at me saying I can vote for shelly now and it was the final straw I felt for me where if I didn’t vote for shelly I would look awful and there was a very high chance they were going to get lynched with my help or not so I tried to get the credit for doing it.

I pushed not mafia getting killed night 1 btw because I felt they were confirmed town now, no way would scum encourage someone to vote their partner as they had done.

Day 3

My partner wanted to come out and claim their role and I was horrified. My post in the mafia thread wasn’t as strong as I would have liked, but I thought it was a horrible idea. I’m fairly sure without that claim the pair of us would have survived the day but it happened. I ended up voting for my partner again

And then titus replaced into the game and that was a disaster. They sat there and just went “it is Geraint” and it was game over. My outlook in the mafia thread just nosedived.

There was almost no chance of winning the game I felt after gamma had come forward, but there was a slim one because I felt that those who had been in the game and had the emotional attachment to it might find it harder to lynch me than someone fresh like titus.
I wanted to concede the game for the last few weeks bt had to play it out, sorry for having it drag on.

Thoughts on the set up

Mods have come in and said it was fine and balanced.
It didn’t feel balanced playing it. I realise losing one of us day 1 really helps town’s odds, but it felt like our 2 roles just didn’t help us at all. They don’t allow us to break up the advantages that town had. Once they got ahead, we had no way of coming back. It didn’t matter that we knew who was going where, there were a pair of confirmed neighbours, there was a Cop who, if they had targeted either of us it was a straight guilty, and the alien again was another role that once town was ahead we couldn’t interfere with. We could have been 3 goons and would have had just as great a chance of winning that game than with (almost) perfect knowledge of what town was doing.

Question
Night 2
• callforjudgement is Alienating ItalianoVD.
• ItalianoVD is Friendly Neighboring Looker.
• Tayl0r Swift is PT Copping RCEnigma.
• WaltertheDunce10 is Friendly Neighboring CallForJudgement.
• geraintm is Watching ItalianoVD. [No result]
• Gamma Emerald is Tracking WaltertheDunce10. [targeted CFJ]
• Gamma Emerald is killing Taylor Swift

Why did I not see CFJ going to Italiano? I targeted italiano explicitly to watch a doc/protection role going there. They then were targeted and I didn’t see it happen.

Overall, this was a horrible game to play. I felt like the 2 moments when my partners got lynched could have been avoided, but I did let myself get trapped into situations where there was no obvious way out, and there was no catchup feature once scum got behind.

[geraintm]

Subject: Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Mafia PT

Trying to work out a path to victory left

7 left alive. CFJ, Walter and Titus are town and should be seen by all as town.
I believe I have to kill CFJ tonight, I cannot risk leaving them alive to either clear someone else or target me

Oh wow, it did work.

There was some evidence that the scumteam was making theory mistakes, and so I was hoping to bait scum into nightkilling me (e.g. my breaking strategy posts were clear on what would happen if I survived, but intentionally vague/worried about what would happen if I were nightkilled; and I made sure to stress how powerful my ability was). But a successful nightkill on me would have lead to 3 confirmed townies in 5 players, which is a 100% win rate ending no matter how bad your reads are (just eliminate the unconfirmed players), better than the 80% strategy that was available at that point anyway. So as an extra chance, I was hoping to be nightkilled and guarantee a town win even if Nosferatu were scum.

I can be disappointed in my reads this game (they were so bad I ended up looking scummy by VCA!), but I am really happy with how well I played this mechanically (this is probably my best mechanical play ever, although admittedly I usually end up drawing VT and having no real opportunity).

I don't get your logic. where does my thinking fall apart? who would have been the extra confirmed town player apart from walter and titus if I had killed you?

[geraintm]

Question
Night 2
• callforjudgement is Alienating ItalianoVD.
• ItalianoVD is Friendly Neighboring Looker.
• Tayl0r Swift is PT Copping RCEnigma.
• WaltertheDunce10 is Friendly Neighboring CallForJudgement.
• geraintm is Watching ItalianoVD. [No result]
• Gamma Emerald is Tracking WaltertheDunce10. [targeted CFJ]
• Gamma Emerald is killing Taylor Swift

Why did I not see CFJ going to Italiano? I targeted italiano explicitly to watch a doc/protection role going there. They then were targeted and I didn’t see it happen./quote]

You didn't see my night action because I rolestopped your action (unintentionally, but it happened); an Alien action protects its target from

any

other action (not just kills), as long as it doesn't specifically pierce blocks. So although I was trying to protect Italiano from the nightkill, my action worked just as well at "protecting" Italiano from being watched, or indeed Titus from receiving Walter's Friendly Neighbour PM.

oh, this comes down to me not understanding that "no result" is different to "no action"