Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!

[WaltertheDunce10]

VOTE: gamma emerald
You all are first in some way.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Not mafia seems interesting
I look forward to this.
Hi sj

[WaltertheDunce10]

To answer Italiano's qs.
1. A few games on this site though saying I am experienced is a stretch.
2. A strengh is prob iso reading and a weakness is not reevaling a read correctly or at all. Though I will admit self-meta is not my thing.
For scumhunting, Agreed on the inconsistencies, but also looking for people who are not solving or are being very guarded.
Townreading, I would say gut also and seeing how they post and whether it seems genuine.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Bad post Reaver click on the link for normal games, and to answer since this is a mini only one town and one mafia faction.
There is a list of roles on the wiki for normal games.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Alright, that is a good point. Just an overreact from me, just thought you would know that because site rules.
You're welcome.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Here's some better questions guys:

1) What do you like most about cinderblocks

2) What is your favorite concrete color mix?

3) When was the first time a cinder block changed your life?

4) What is the capital of Assyria?

5) Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith?

It is a real lego block.
Grey.
When I discovered it had a chalky stratchy dust when I rubbed my hands on one.
I don't remember.
I was being kinda grouchily in that response for no reason
I id not intent it as a put down to Sj's questions and my next post I acknowledged that.

[WaltertheDunce10]

5.
No.
Here I developed some even better questions!
1. Is it okay to put rotting produce into an uncooked stead as a filler?
What is the cinderblock you would like most as a pet?
Are pineapples good on pizzas?

[WaltertheDunce10]

By filler I mean as a stuffing of sorts.

[WaltertheDunce10]

hmmm
COJ, you believe we are now out of rvs because of your two posts?
I agree with you on the crap post though by frog but that is because like you said no follow up or anything else.
No reason to label it as rvs agreed.
But your reaction seems disproportionate to the faux paus committed of continuing rvs.
Which italiano also continued with.
I think this is a tl on you for now COJ because you want better posting from people and to move on from rvs.

[WaltertheDunce10]

It is not concrete banana.
To me it is not the fact that they are fluff but rather the intent.
Move on from rvs and get better posts. I see this as someone who wants to gamesolve rather than joke around.

[WaltertheDunce10]

K, that is a point I can respect on the rvs part. Thank you for making that clearer.
pedit one word statements are not helpful.
I was not mansplaining rvs or at least it was not intended.

[WaltertheDunce10]

K, that makes sense.
We are all good.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Wow. At this point in time you are suspicious of the labeled RVS?
I guess I’d think it depends on the bandwidth each player has to invest on this but honestly I don’t get any clear read from what I’ve read so far. I’d consider random voting still valid. Let me go back and review the posts...

looking forward to what you find.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I like the poem and gif
hmm
Same thing with raya and Italiano.
I do hear Coj on the posts, but let people be, you can't force them to adapt to how you want them to post.
Good night

[WaltertheDunce10]

Come on, mafia.

I'm vanilla townie. I don't care if you night kill me or not. Hang me on D1. You know people are going to look at the VC.

Try to miseliminate me. Come on, grow a pair and vote against SJR. Help save Italian VD.

Really Sj, Saying you are vanilla townie does not help.
Only helps scum narrow down prs.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Come on, mafia.

I'm vanilla townie. I don't care if you night kill me or not. Hang me on D1. You know people are going to look at the VC.

Try to miseliminate me. Come on, grow a pair and vote against SJR. Help save Italian VD.

Really Sj, Saying you are vanilla townie does not help.
Only helps scum narrow down prs.

Do you scum read this move? An early VT claim like this is pretty much what townies do, even though it's anti-town in nature

Only slightly, but SJ did this in our previous game, claiming vt.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Town.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Town.

So why the slight scum read then? You think they're trying to manipulate based off of that game?

No, but that combined with the come get me scum statements as bait aren't really helping my read of sj along with saying she is scum serves no purpose except as bait.

[WaltertheDunce10]

K,Banana.
@ Geraintm, any thoughts so far?

[WaltertheDunce10]

hmm
Alright, do you frog have anything else you have picked up through the thread?

[WaltertheDunce10]

That post by frog seems really weird considering the fact that it was his second post all game. Something to keep an eye on.
N_m do you have any thoughts on the playerbase other than you are proud of the fact you caught scum D1.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Was there something about banana's posts that seemed towny to you?

[WaltertheDunce10]

hmm
I see where you come from on that.
I think he is a town lean for me because of his more recent posts like 142 and 147.

[WaltertheDunce10]

oh,
Because I thought the memes and bruhs were not as helpful overall.
But asking qs is more helpful than nothing.
pedit
slight on sou
Very slight on sj but could just be her posting style.
Just a lot of nulls right now due to people like nm or people who have not been on.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Raya, what do you make of Rce?

[WaltertheDunce10]

K, why do you find that lame frog?

[WaltertheDunce10]

VOTE: Nosferatu

I'm not buying the sobriety excuse because I'm town and posting anyway right now. Nosferatu's post seems a little lurky and overconcerned. Like he thinks he can get away with it for an ML or two.

COJ seems overly concerned with Not_Mafia. I feel like he would be able to think more critically if he stopped mentioning Not_Mafia.

COJ and Not_Mafia nominated themselves for town leader and town "anti-town" and seem well suited for their roles respectively.

WaltertheDunce10 seems like he likes Twitter or LinkedIn or both.

Oh god no
I do reddit.
I think I could see that with Nosferatu but I want to see something from him when he is sober at least.
I feel a tl on raya based off our interactions.

[WaltertheDunce10]

But I think that is just comes down to personal preference when one plays under the influence.

[WaltertheDunce10]

oh,
Because I thought the memes and bruhs were not as helpful overall.
But asking qs is more helpful than nothing.
pedit
slight on sou
Very slight on sj but could just be her posting style.
Just a lot of nulls right now due to people like nm or people who have not been on.

You're right that asking questions is more helpful than nothing but what was done could so easily have been done as scum too. 142 and 147 are NAI.

Can you explain the slight scumreads?

For Sj it it the bait posts and posts like 91 that don;t solve but say look scummy.
is that an actual claim sj in 216?
Alright for sou, it is the progression from 79 where he will go back and reread and then 117 where he agrees with a post but does not offer any solving or anything at all.

I have to say that I read frog as scum now.
I find 150 to be really weird case to make this late, now maybe that was when he online next. but it seems kinda wifomy.
But then his most recent posts put nomafia as town antitown???
I read that slot as null.
But the case on nosferatu seems forced and an overread into a slot that has not been on.
VOTE: Frogster

[WaltertheDunce10]

What is bad from my perspective of 91 is the second part on the part about tomorrownow she may have picked up a scum italiano but it does not seem helpful. K, enthuisiastic, yes.
The come get me scum posts that are 112 113 and 114, and 115 where she says she is scum.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Walter has been scum read in every game I've seen him play. The man has a flair for being miseliminated.

No updated VC, I see. Give me time to see what you've been up to and find out how easy it is to slip under the radar.

This is helpful info. Is there a reason you can put your finger onto why Woolter seems to be scum read a lot?

He has a sparse posting style and doesn't engage in much of the back-and-forth other posters do that make them sticky* in other's minds. He's poor at defending himself because he tends to remain calm and level-headed. His reads are average but he's not the best at making a case, so other town posters tend to value him less.

In the first game I played with him, it was the end of D1 and we were one vote away from eliminating Walter. He came off as being okay with it. The reason we caught scum was that rolling him was so nice and easy, they made a 'jokey' post that obvscum mindset.

If it's not clear, I'm currently townreading him. Because of the consistency in his playstyle, I'll probably lock that in for D1 and then revisit it D2 when we have a flip and I can see how he positions himself.


*It's somewhat tangential, but group psychology often favors people who provoke any sort of emotional reaction, even slightly negative ones.

This post feels pretty genuine to me.
I think reaver actually believes this.
Consider me pocketed but that is the best post I have seen from you.

[WaltertheDunce10]

VOTE: walter

VOTE: Walter

RQS should be permabannable

Maybe so, but you are both sheep

[WaltertheDunce10]

5.
No.
Here I developed some even better questions!
1. Is it okay to put rotting produce into an uncooked stead as a filler?
What is the cinderblock you would like most as a pet?
Are pineapples good on pizzas?

VOTE: Walther
Now you’re just wasting time and space with this

Why would you call this out but not call me out for doing the exact same thing?

I disagree with any notion of "wasting time" when we have 2 week long days lol

His explicitly comes off as wasting time
You just seem like a less serious person in general

But to elaborate, the prolonging of the RQS came off as scum who didn’t have a good transition into the full game yet. One was alright and the first was some good questions, the second had less compelling questions but felt orderly enough to not bother me. The third was super random and out of place imo.

I agree, but it was meant as sarcasm to banana’s qs.
How did i prolong rvs until coj declared it ended with his post?
Pedit you expected a response? People are entitled to believe who they think are scum.
You laid out some points nm and nos just blarbed out votes.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I recognize tour cote has valid criticism of my gameplay so far.
Nm nosferatu
Any fucking reads?

[WaltertheDunce10]

your vote
Bloody phones

[WaltertheDunce10]

Yeah, a bit,
but do you have anything to add?
That was rude of me.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Yeah I agree.
Seems towny for how he came back.
VOTE: Nosferatu

[WaltertheDunce10]

VOTE: walter

VOTE: Walter

RQS should be permabannable

Maybe so, but you are both sheep

Silence fool

You have silenced me .
haha

[WaltertheDunce10]

From 273 Agreed with that on the frog point
Also odd that Nos would take such offense to it.
Also that he thinks that nm posts quality content on the rqs point.

[WaltertheDunce10]

What is bad from my perspective of 91 is the second part on the part about tomorrownow she may have picked up a scum italiano but it does not seem helpful. K, enthuisiastic, yes.
The come get me scum posts that are 112 113 and 114, and 115 where she says she is scum.

Do you think claiming scum more likely comes from scum though? Especially from someone new?

Possibly, but it might fit with SJ's playsyle as those posts have claims switching around, particularly the fact sj did again in 216.
From someone new, I don't know if they would want the attention that would bring, so probably not.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I read through frog's case on sou probably being neutral and I agree. That slot is back to null.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I’m doing Creature style reads this game, deal with it

ItalianoVD
callforjudgement

Gamma Emerald

BananaCucho

SJReaver

Not_Mafia
geraintm
Raya36
Frogsterking

Nosferatu

RCEnigma
sordros

WaltertheDunce10

Linethrough = townread, italics = not exactly a townread but don’t want to vote there
FYI I will probably work on tuning my reads soon

And I assume neither means neutral or null ?

[WaltertheDunce10]

you might want more....but I am notgoing to fake a bunch of reads just to please you.

I kinda like this statement by gerain because it does not show a willingness to appease and shows he wants to put some thought into it.Though he could just be stalling but Idk

[WaltertheDunce10]

K, Nos I was referring to what that meant in emerald's post about what normal text meant.
Thanks for answering Gamma.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I am on now, kinda swamped with work today/tomorrow.
the frustration could be genuine like banana but I disagree that it would be towny neccesarily.
But the frustration still seems to be evident and still there, which to me seems slightly townier.
I looked through Gerain's posts and I find it telling that his post on his reads seem to target only a few people.
I don't like the response in 392 where he says he does not have strong reads D1.
I disagree with banana on 452, call it out like it is or make it more subtle, plus it did garner a reaction before it was debunked.
I would like to hear 471 by frog be expanded upon.
Frog seems to have this obssesion with nos now.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Lines two and three are talking about nos.
VOTE: Frog

[WaltertheDunce10]

Frog, if nos is town, what are your scumreads?

[WaltertheDunce10]

I did like raya's convo with nos.
I would like to hear from Rce why he believes CFJ is scum.

[WaltertheDunce10]

hmm
I am not sure about it being hard to imagine, but I think for you the possibility of nos being town is far fetched. from 488.
Not sure I agree that sarcasm is weak.
Frog, Could you elaborate on why you think there are 4 scum?
Agreed with gerain on italiano's post on frog.
K, Gerain, you are saying it is how you play D1s.
497 seems towny, but then there seems to be a self-counscious statement with 'Have I explained myself well enough."
At least that is how I see it.
Weird though we get a scum then a fan post and before that Nm with a vote on a person who just replaced in.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Weird though we get a scum then a fan post and before that Nm with a vote on a person who just replaced in

What does this even mean?

I was noting the mixed reactions by people.
The main thing that stuck out to me was italiano's meme and scum post.
It is really weird to have a take based on last slot so quickly in my opinion.

The one thing that has me worried though is the lack of a voting block.
You'd think there would be a second wagon, instead it is cfj and everyone else.
Kinda has me suspicious but if this keeps up this reminds of something, but site rules.
The 4 scum being explained is good.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Weird though we get a scum then a fan post and before that Nm with a vote on a person who just replaced in

What does this even mean?

I was noting the mixed reactions by people.
The main thing that stuck out to me was italiano's meme and scum post.
It is really weird to have a take based on last slot so quickly in my opinion.

The one thing that has me worried though is the lack of a voting block.
You'd think there would be a second wagon, instead it is cfj and everyone else.
Kinda has me suspicious but if this keeps up this reminds of something, but site rules.
The 4 scum being explained is good.

What do you mean, voting block? Is that when a bunch of people declare themselves as town and start throwing their votes around?

Yeah kinda, but not really what I meant. Usually in most games there are two or 3 wagons, but maybe that will be true there is like a week left after all.
the fact there does not seem to be a consensus on who is scum it is considering there are a lot of separate single votes.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I feel a slight tr about the gerain slot after cfj's post and explanation. although such a defense of Gerain seemed very out of the blue.
I find this whole fake guilty thing to be highly suspicious and pr fishing.

I am really tired rn going to sleep.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Because I don't see the purpose of a fake guilty, it just seems really odd to me.
I get it was a joke, but I am not sure of its usefulness.
pedit It does seem very nm, but the fact that it was prompted by nos though? hmm
Something to keep in mind.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Nm, Do you have like any reads at all?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Nm, Do you have like any reads at all?

Yes

That you feel comfortable posting here?

[WaltertheDunce10]

hmm
alright. At least that is something.
VOTE: Gamma
@Gamma
What do you think cfj was going for with the post about gerain?

[WaltertheDunce10]

walter....you seem remarkably unconcerned you have just been voted?
Like...one of the few people I have managed to pay attention to today is not mafia and your interactions with them on this page just leave me confused....

I tend to not geet whippedd up about being voted because I recognize if I am elimed if still provides useful info.
You will also note that Gamma also saw this earlier.
I am not really that concerned because as I said in 248, people are free to believe who they see as scum.
I was quite surprised that Nm en posted that after my response, I was just expecting a no.
Plus, I am not certain that pressuring nm will lead to more of a response.

[WaltertheDunce10]

hmm
alright. At least that is something.
VOTE: Gamma
@Gamma
What do you think cfj was going for with the post about gerain?

The post still doesn’t sit right with me, but he put a good foot forward explaining it
As for what he was going for, it looked like he used an NAI point as a way to leave to wagon. It’s not as sketchy now with the explanation but if geraint flips scum I’ll likely be calling back to that

K, that makes sense and is in line with my thinking. Although I think that cfj is town. call it a 70% certainty.

[WaltertheDunce10]

do you think the opposite applies if Cfj flips scum?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Fake claiming cop.
I don’t see a purpose unless scum was trying to bait a reaction.
Try to see how town would react. Maybe draw a pr out. That was my thought. Although it Does come from two of the more anto town slots.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Good point.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I guess maybe. I think i see it now.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Strange entrance by looker but that is one post.
I love reading.
655, is just really weird in that it sorta shows like cfj said a lack of reading/ disengagement.

[WaltertheDunce10]

A bit, but the fact you unvoted then put down reading. I probably would have flipped those two around.
As I also noted it was only one post of yours.
Has anything popped out to you in your reading so far?
Also, Looker, in an earlier post I noted the lack of a big wagon, now that has changed since I made it but it reminded me of bugspray D1. Do you think that could be the case here?

[WaltertheDunce10]

@

Walter

: Two questions.

a) In #511, who does the "you" in the first line refer to?
b) Have there been any updates to your Nosferatu read since #278?

That is referring to Frog,
I thin nos has been a bit more towny since then, but still in the nai part.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I do tend to be a person who is miselimed cfj. I call bullshit on this statement, I think that all 3 wagons you, Italiano and I are somewhat town.
I should point out that 650 was not enough of a scum read and a vote. I did not think of that number to be associated with the actual percentage, just one that you have a higher chance of flipping town.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I agree,
That is a good point on the callout for gamestate to change.
I don't think my theory on it being a bugspray situation holds any water otherwise there would have been more vote movement recently back then compared to now.
Plus it occurred due to nos and nm not my post.

[WaltertheDunce10]

So Buspray,
That was a person in 2145 who on D1 was being scumread a lot and had consistent votes on. He was later elimed and was a pr. The situation has changed and were different, but at the time I was thinking about that CFJ had been scumread through the phase consistently plus there was no real consistent cw. This no longer holds up due to the shift in gamestate. It was a reason for why I thought CFJ is town.
NM you are a pita to play with.
I must admit that my read on taylor has improved to a slight tr after a alight sr on her first posts. There seems to be better posts more recently.
A Nos, you said you felt cfj was gaslighting italiano then voted for him. Is there a reason for voting italiano then.

[WaltertheDunce10]

That should say 2154

[WaltertheDunce10]

but tbh i null read italiano so while i would prefer someone else world won't end if this goes thru

Who do you prefer Nos?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Alright, good point CFJ.
Although that would be you or Gerain.
Would also be fine with nm too just due to helpfulness.
Not going to vote for italiano, ts,or frog this day.
You know what, I would like something more from nm.
VOTE: NM

[WaltertheDunce10]

VOTE: Gerain
I am fine with a Gerain elim.
We are close to deadline.

[WaltertheDunce10]

K then
VOTE: shellyc

[WaltertheDunce10]

Geraint is a waste of an elimination, elim Walter please and thank you

uhhuh

[WaltertheDunce10]

This is kinda awkward though with the two and a half hours.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I will hammer whichever wagon hits E-1 first as soon as it hits E-1 no questions asked. Claims out if ya got em.

this post never comes from town

ur so cracked

honestly ill switch to shellyc

VOTE: shellyc

i town read this slot but i really don't like who's on the walter wagon with me

I'm tempted to town read Nosferatu for the end of day switch here.

I agreee sorta also. Iam trying to figure out why scum team would not stall out the game state again. Which makes me think nos is town for that. Although I'm not sure RCE using the same reasons is a good one.

[WaltertheDunce10]

This is true
Me and italiano are in a neighborhood

[WaltertheDunce10]

Walter isn't confirmed even if Italiano is FN. Whether he knew going into the night or night, there are some large conclusions being jumped to, will consolidate my initial day 2 reads when I do some wagon sniffing.

However Nos town from eod (alright felt like this was true but ehh) as well as gerain. My vote on Shelly was kind of an eod prayer since deadline had already passed (even with the 2 hour delay) I threw it on Shelly thinking it probably wouldn't count but hey if it did we get a flip.

Gerain 100% could have just opted not to hammer and had already established he would probably miss eod.

Regardless I think it's an offwagon day. NM looks more like a pr hunt than anything else and should NOT dissuade off wagon hunting.

But RC, why would scum shoot offwagon if they weren't on the Shelly wagon? Well silly little townie, cuz mafia.

Alright.
I agree on the Nm part.

[WaltertheDunce10]

At this point it's very unlikely that Italiano is scum; a Friendly Neighbour claim is hard to substantiate as scum (you have to keep claiming to target your buddies and/or the nightkill), and easy to prove as town (that's literally what the role does, proving itself as town). It would be helpful to verify that the claim has actually been substantiated before day ends, though, otherwise it'll lead us to be paranoid into future days.

If scum knew that Italiano was a Friendly Neighbour, that would make him an obvious nightkill choice. So it's also useful to know whether Walter knew Italiano was a Friendly Neighbour prior to the end of Night 1; if he did, that somewhat reduces the chance that Walter is scum.

@Tayl0r: mods (and playerlists!) differ on how much utility a T/S neighbourhood gives to town and/or scum. Some mods think that such a neighbourhood helps town (you can quiz your neighbour in the PT, figure out they're scum, and sometimes even figure out their buddies by the way they talk over the game with you); I once caught 2 out of 3 members of a scumteam because I was in a neighbourhood with one of them. But recently, players have had a tendency to assume that neighbourhoods are T/T, so some mods/reviewers will balance a T/S neighbourhood as though it helps scum and put in extra town power to compensate.

This is a good post. I definitely agree we should have the receiver of the FN message claim by the end of the day so we can confirm italiano is town. And it's also important to know if Walter knew about Italiano being the FN.

I did not know about Italiano being the FN prior to N1.
I only knew it when he posted it in thread here.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I am here but am sick and then fell asleep for 12 hours. Have some work to do but I would be fine with cfj raya or looker.

[WaltertheDunce10]

it is so very normal to vote somebody who isn't your top scum read i've rarely ever had to justify doing so

justify it some more. just repeating something back to me when I have asked for clarification (and I am not the only one) isn't good enough.

And am I the only one who DIDN’T think Frogster was in a neighborhood?

me, I am oblivious to anything like that. I am all about the surface.

If you scumread shelly for calling my first post scummy, does her flipping scum reflect negatively on WaltertheDunce10 to you (seeing as he did the exact same thing)?

it would have, but the game has moved on since then with my view about walter. it would have been the same yesterday, but what has come out today I don't automatically make walter scum just because yesterday they were acting similar to scum. I think we got very lucky with shelly yesterday

at this point im kinda more confident in raya being scum than enigma. raya is rolefishing and trying to pocket me. VOTE: raya. its interesting that theyre voting each other though. that could be an "uh oh we're caught better do something to make it look like we cant both be scum" play.

do you still think RCenigma is scum though??? or you thinking they are town now?

@frogster - I don't have nosferatu as town. or why Callforjudgement is giving Nosferatu all the cred for shelly getting lynched

what are the odds that cfj vs frog is TvT here? pretty low i reckon. in any case scum is suddenly doing a good job of muddying the waters, and some townies are helping them.

agree, I thought today was going to be a nice simple lynch of enigma but then someone who started the wagon dropped off

what are the odds that cfj vs frog is TvT here? pretty low i reckon. in any case scum is suddenly doing a good job of muddying the waters, and some townies are helping them.

Actually I believe that there’s a pretty good chance it is TvT.

Can you elaborate on your second sentence?

the gamestate was in a really good spot 24 hours ago. we had good leads and the game felt under control. now it feels like chaos, which is partially scum driven im sure (either a wagon was going somewhere they didnt like or they were just being slowly cornered. but its also partially town driven. there are townies stirring shit up which is bad. now suddenly the game feels much less certain and sure - im not confident in where to apply pressure anymore. that suggests that wherever pressure was going 24 hours ago was the right direction

i hope taylor wont mind if i roll my eyes again, as i've just come back from overnight to find the person who began the wagon on the best wagon we had has pulled off and looks like they are looking for another wagon to join once they felt RCenigma wasn't going to easily get over the line. you will excuse me for calling this...mildly weird? like, i think you are town but if you are, i havent seen someone get this much self doubt so quickly in a long time...

Callfor judgements 1042 post

I am glad i wasnt the target for his hints, it would have whooshed past me. please, in all future games, dont drop hints like this with me as i wont get it.
i think you are overthinking the night kill. why look for a really, really confusing and unlikely explanation (mafia's kill got blocked and there is a vig in the game) instead of "i don't know why scum targetted not mafia". you keep saying that not mafia was a weird kill, but that is only to you with your limited game knowledge. i just don't try and guess mafia's logic, i never get it right
but you spending so much time on this i find weird. you have almost gone "thing A is weird. lets look at thing B instead" because you want to make sure everyone doesn't look at thing A. this post is just odd to me. the misdirection is so obvious it becomes unobvious??
i realise my post isn't much use, it isn't providing any evidence, but i found your post weird. it was a really long post to say "i think frog is town and no one should look at not mafia".
frog later just goes huh which would have been my reaction too

there is a little burst of posts about gamma now. Italiano said he didn't like gamma saying CFJ interacting with frogster (back when CFJ's posts were all about frogster before he explained why). taylor agrees. gamma makes a ton of posts fighting back. i dunno, feels like there is one scum in among these, it can't be that every discussion in this game is town vs town.

i need to go through a few players posts to get some better reads on people, rather than just reacting to what is going on. i still hate RCenigma - who has gone noticeably quiet after a few days of being very very active... - and do not want to move my vote right now

I don't get this vig theory at all. I agree that it is weird. Maybe CFJ thinks that people think that he killed NM? That still does not explain this theory though.

[WaltertheDunce10]

@Taylor: 952 is a joke right?

@Raya: Did you ever look into Walter’s meta? (224). And did you ever go back? (299)

And am I the only one who DIDN’T think Frogster was in a neighborhood?

I skimmed some Walter meta and I didnt go back through cfj

1) What did you find from skimming through Walter? 2) So then you just said you were gonna go back through cfj because it sounded good, but wasn’t actually planning on doing it?

1) I didn't find anything of the same nature in either his town or scum games. However I can note that he seems to post more and be much more transparent as town. Although that can only he taken on surface value since that's based on only 1 scum game.

2) life got busy and I didn't have the time/energy/motivation to go through all those long posts

Yes,that is true.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Looking and him and frog seems to be a tvt maybe. Not convinced though. But Gamma seems slightly townier to me. still null.
don't like the fake claim. It baited out that there is one neighborhood and gave scum info.
However, looker self-vote is just weird as fuck.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I am pretty sure though that Raya may be scum.
There is nothing I see that makes me go yes town in iso.
VOTE: Raya

[WaltertheDunce10]

Why would town CFJ need to be so freaked out about the kill?

[WaltertheDunce10]

I agree.
VOTE: CFJ

[WaltertheDunce10]

I said maybe CFJ not yes. Really cfj because earlier I said that you were on my vote list and scum pool so my vote should not come as a surprise to you.
I agree with 1123.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I agree with 1159.
A little confused on why a tfn would want to send it to a scummy player, and I agree on not sending it to people who may be nkd.
Where does this lead us though?
@Raya Does the fact that Italiano and I are in a neighborhood influence your read on me?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Insert shawshankobtuse.jpg

you're the type to vote town in xylo

Votecount 2.5

Looker(3)

~ Nosferatu(13), Gamma Emerald(24), callforjudgement(31)

callforjudgement(3)

~ Frogsterking(28), ItalianoVD(28), WaltertheDunce10(11)

RCEnigma(2)

~ Raya36(28), geraintm(13)

Raya36(2)

~ RCEnigma(20), Tayl0r Swift(41)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Looker(13)

kinda torn here
What are you torn about here nos?
VOTE: raya

[WaltertheDunce10]

@Nos
What are you torn about here?

[WaltertheDunce10]

This reminds me: everyone has posted since #898. I'm wondering if we can learn anything about Italiano's Friendly Neighbour target from the fact that they haven't confirmed him yet. (In particular, I see no town motivation in refusing to / failing to confirm Italiano, whereas scum would obviously benefit from the uncertainty about Italiano's slot if his Friendly Neighbour action was on scum N1 and fails/is roleblocked N2. So I think the target in question is more likely than random to be scum.)

Like, there's no theory reason to fail to confirm a claimed Friendly Neighbour as town. You aren't giving away anything about their role because they've claimed it, and you aren't giving away anything about your role other than that you aren't Ascetic. So it doesn't meaningfully help scum with their rolefishing at all.

How did you rule out the option of an Italiano fakeclaim

I said maybe CFJ not yes. Really cfj because earlier I said that you were on my vote list and scum pool so my vote should not come as a surprise to you.
I agree with 1123.

In your opinion, were any of the claims worthwhile?

Italiano's I believe but would like the person who got to put it in thread later on in day.
Don't like rce's fakeclaim
I am not sure about ts's claim
Seems the most suspicious.
But Cfj's recent posts have me going back to raya. I want to sort cfj/frog D3.
VOTE: raya

[WaltertheDunce10]

@Nos
What are you torn about here?

cfj and raya

I have the same thought also.

[WaltertheDunce10]

If it is a fakeclaim then why tell me in neighbor chat where he sent it too.
That would out his scumbuddy.

[WaltertheDunce10]

If it is a fakeclaim then why tell me in neighbor chat where he sent it too.
That would out his scumbuddy.

If you know you should be telling us. Italiano is hurting town and you holding back info is hurting town too.

Fuck no
I will let him or his target do it.
I won't answer for either of them.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Raya and cfj pushing the same angle still.

Cfj I asked about Shelly being bussed because I would find it difficult to believe with a wagon already leading on scum!Italiano, with Shelly involved -- would then designate Shelly as the buss and have her lurk out.

Also the spearheads of both the cfj wagon and Italiano wagon were mostly present on the Shelly wagon. It makes the walter wagon look a ton worse in retrospect. I mean, worse than it did in being the counterwagon to a scum flip.

Add in the night kill, likely to specifically set up a walter elim, and cfj you are part of the tandem pushing these counter-town angles.

I've kind of been wanting to give you the benefit of the doubt because maybe you're just a townie on the wrong side of the tracks. But you have not had the thought that maybe you had been voting against town interest and were wrong on walter with A.) The wagon composition on scumflip and 2.) The company you are keeping. For example Raya with soft defending the Shelly slot before votes were in favor of flipping Shelly.

I agree on this.

[WaltertheDunce10]

And don’t pressure Walter. He doesn’t know and it’s not his decision.

Agreed on second part.

[WaltertheDunce10]

HMM
I am with frog on that.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I agree with taylor
Raya what made you change your mind?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Walter, do you still have a scumread on Looker? Or do you now think me+Raya is the only possibility?

Are there any other slots you're considering? The only scumread-like thing you've expressed all D2 on anyone but me, Raya and Looker is a dislike of RCE's and Tayl0r's claims.

It might be looker, it seems he lurks more than the game I was with him in.
He is selfvoting. Why looker are you being such a weird pita.
Anti-town and possible scum.
Still think you /raya have a good chance of being a red .
I am not sure I exactly agree with 1275of Italianos.
I agree with gerain's assessment of raya and you.
I do have gamma as null and a poss if cfj flips green.
Nos I had a slight tr on earlier because of the vote but it has faded.

[WaltertheDunce10]

• Did RCE get shook up by his wagon and flake?

---

@looker

1st: I think thr chance of scum fake claiming isn't zero, but not high.

2nd: stop with the self votes. If you hate this game this much and as much as you say it does, take a mental break.

Looker is the sort of person I find infuriating to play with. Not mafia is another, I cannotnever get reads on their actions. There is a difference between not wanting them in the game and thinking they are scum though. Sometimes

• Ok.
  
• Who gives a fuck about your advice? Take your misrep elsewhere.
  
• Your infuriating idiocy is a personal problem - it has nothing to do with me.

Spoiler:

Um no? I never said that at all.


I'm starting to think it's all a lie too. Although most likely a lie coming from town.

• Well then, can you clarify?
  • You said RCE was scum for PR fishing, but said Walter was probably scum for weak pushes and saying that fakeclaims were PR fishing.

Those were two different situations though. I didn't think what Walter was pushing at the time was PR fishing and his pushed were weak. This is a completely difference instant.

I'm getting things confused. Which post numbers were for which instances?

Spoiler:

Walter, do you still have a scumread on Looker? Or do you now think me+Raya is the only possibility?

Are there any other slots you're considering? The only scumread-like thing you've expressed all D2 on anyone but me, Raya and Looker is a dislike of RCE's and Tayl0r's claims.

It might be looker, it seems he lurks more than the game I was with him in.
He is selfvoting. Why looker are you being such a weird pita.
Anti-town and possible scum.
Still think you /raya have a good chance of being a red .
I am not sure I exactly agree with 1275of Italianos.
I agree with gerain's assessment of raya and you.
I do have gamma as null and a poss if cfj flips green.
Nos I had a slight tr on earlier because of the vote but it has faded.

I think trying to find teams is a scum tactic - mafia know how to distance

• Didn't you lose that game for us by being a horrible IC? Maybe you're just demotivating. Or maybe you should meta more, because this isn't lurking.
  
• Do you feel self-voting is more anti-town than not voting at all? Clearly I disagree.

---

• ItalianoVD is a joke. There was no way I could anticipate there would be three fakeclaims D2 when I replaced in D1. He's trying to sound self-righteous for townie points, but he's still avoiding committing to an actual vote while waiting to see if we'll actually believe his fakeclaim bullshit. He's just waiting to see if Raya will get to L-1 so he can hammer.
  
• 1318 was unnecessary - I would laugh if I allowed [redacted] on the internet to actually influence me.
  
• "Looker" was the quickest thing I could type in middle school. Frogster asking the tough questions

lol.
I don't do well with ate.
hahaha
I ddmit I would prefer to not talk about that game in which I did badly, but give chk some credit.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I think Looker harbors resentment toward himself which is why he keeps self-voting.

Is that AI for you Frog?

[WaltertheDunce10]

For the excercise,
I would go with raya + CFJ. if CFJ is town then look at gamma/ looker/italiano.

[WaltertheDunce10]

For the excercise,
I would go with raya + CFJ. if CFJ is town then look at gamma/ looker/italiano.

The mention of Italiano here really worries me. If Walter is town, then his actions toDay indicate a strong townread on Italiano (why would you go along with letting him stay unconfirmed if you think there's a decent chance he could be scum, when you're in a position to intervene?). I can understand why Walter would defer to Italiano if he thinks Italiano is almost certainly town, but not otherwise.

Instead, Walter's basically just listed a list of "scumreads that are widely held", apparently without actually thinking about them. These reads don't seem particularly consistent with Walter's actions, but are easily explainable as a scum Walter wanting to keep his options open.

I have a very paranoid reason to suspect italiano may be fakeclaiming. I cannot reveal why at this time though.
You will also note that it is the least likeliest of people out there.
pedit I am with frog on the vig part.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Still think italiano is town though rn

[WaltertheDunce10]

i think cfj will be an extremely high-info lunch. but i think raya is by far the most likely to be scum, so id still prefer to lunch there. we can dine on cfj tomorrow.

hmm I read this as sort of scummy in setting one person up after the other.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Ehh, not likely in my opinion.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I son't like italiano's vote. It seems random.

[WaltertheDunce10]

To me, it came out of the blue with xero explanation, would like to know what Italiano saw that put his vote there.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Yes Raya and Italiano are both motivated by fear of being incorrect.

Italiano is more specific in that his fear is in being incorrect about his scum reads, which is causing him to double take his reads continuously. Raya also appears to fear being incorrect about her scum read on Walter, with the opposite reaction of doubling down under pressure.

Raya, the issue I have with your slot is that you're not only absent from the game, you also appear significantly guarded in your thoughts and feelings. Being busy explains the absence but not necessarily the guardedness.

I think appearing guarded in this lobby is quite a feat, because I don't think this is the most trusting group of people in the world.

I agree.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Is Nosferatu still here?

a little bored but still here

Alive

[WaltertheDunce10]

K so pretty much has to be a 10-3
RCe why are you still selfvoting?

[WaltertheDunce10]

hmmm

[WaltertheDunce10]

I think so
Rce quite scummy for that

[WaltertheDunce10]

No,
If that is hammer then for not allowing discussion.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Yes.

[WaltertheDunce10]

We will see what happens during night.
I agree.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Plus the self-vote

[WaltertheDunce10]

Pagetop we go

[WaltertheDunce10]

Italiano your tfn was to ?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Alright, I verify this is what Italiano said in the chat.

[WaltertheDunce10]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
BS RCE

[WaltertheDunce10]

lol Italiano he confirmed it
I agree with nos we launch rce for d3

[WaltertheDunce10]

We will see.

[WaltertheDunce10]

All dependent on flip of course.

[WaltertheDunce10]

K, good to know.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I will take a look at this in the morning
I joined a 48/24 and was busy with that.

[WaltertheDunce10]

VOTE: rce
I still think he seems scummy due to the fakeclaim

[WaltertheDunce10]

hmm that is a good point.
Ill unvote for now.
VOTE: unvote

[WaltertheDunce10]

I think we really need to look at this again. Is RCE scummier than Gamma?

hmm that is a good point.
Ill unvote for now.
VOTE: unvote

Votecount 3.2

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Nosferatu(7), ItalianoVD(11), callforjudgement(30)

RCEnigma(2)

~ Looker(1), geraintm(10)

callforjudgement(2)

~ Frogsterking(34), Gamma Emerald(8)
What would those be?


Not Voting (2): RCEnigma(2), WaltertheDunce10(4)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-07 19:26:08)

UNVOTE: CFJ

There are 11 days to go, I'm faded, this upcoming week I will be staying in Michigan, the land of legal dispensaries, and there are methods of scum hunting which are actually useful we have not applied yet.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Testing

[WaltertheDunce10]

Testing

testing

[WaltertheDunce10]

K, don't know why my quote up there has no words but k.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I tracked someone to you last night. It was not Italiano. As such I’m figuring it was someone else who is also FN.
Italiano, if you’re comfortable, I’d like if you could specify your full role, because I think the puzzle will snap into place with that information.

FYI I’m not revealing anything I wouldn’t reveal at the end of this process anyways.

But Italiano already shared his full role?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Why would that prompt you to ask the questions you did, though? Tracking a player lets you see their target, but it doesn't tell you about other players with the same target; what made you reject the possibility that Italiano and someone else both targeted me?

Also, if you did decide that a non-Italiano Friendly Neighbour had targeted me, why push me to confirm that in thread? If they die N3 the information doesn't matter, and if they don't die N3 they'll be able to confirm themself to someone else. (Besides, they presumably confirmed themself to someone N1.)

Why doe you need italiano to confirm his role when it is unrelated to tracking?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Why would that prompt you to ask the questions you did, though? Tracking a player lets you see their target, but it doesn't tell you about other players with the same target; what made you reject the possibility that Italiano and someone else both targeted me?

Also, if you did decide that a non-Italiano Friendly Neighbour had targeted me, why push me to confirm that in thread? If they die N3 the information doesn't matter, and if they don't die N3 they'll be able to confirm themself to someone else. (Besides, they presumably confirmed themself to someone N1.)

Because my working theory means the other FN can’t do what you propose.

@Walter where did Italiano announce he full claimed?

Not answering this.
Will answer why you are scum in morning.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Looking back on italianos claim at classified.
I think it is very odd gamma has no reaction at all like she already knew that. But there is nothing there at all. It is very strange.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Yeah I agree
I think frog is better than gamma?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Hmmm

[WaltertheDunce10]

FYI tracked RCE N1, my thought process has been checking people somewhat visible but without claimed active powers (RCE posted the fake day vig which put him on my radar, and Walter was the neighbor of a PR so I thought maybe he might either be PR or have an action).

I believe this statement. I also, however, think it's pretty much an admission that you're a scum Tracker, not a town Tracker.

What sort of town Tracker thinks "hmm, maybe such and such a player is a power role, let's track them to see what their role is like" rather than "hmm, maybe such and such a player is scum flying under the radar, let's track them to see if I can catch them performing the nightkill"? The thought process you've described is pretty much the thought process that scum would go through when deciding upon a Tracker target, and doesn't make much sense as town.

I agree.
VOTE: Gamma

[WaltertheDunce10]

I know.

[WaltertheDunce10]

• Poor RCE.

---

Looking back on italianos claim at classified.
I think it is very odd gamma has no reaction at all like she already knew that. But there is nothing there at all. It is very strange.

What reaction would you expect?

Spoiler:

Why would that prompt you to ask the questions you did, though? Tracking a player lets you see their target, but it doesn't tell you about other players with the same target; what made you reject the possibility that Italiano and someone else both targeted me?

Also, if you did decide that a non-Italiano Friendly Neighbour had targeted me, why push me to confirm that in thread? If they die N3 the information doesn't matter, and if they don't die N3 they'll be able to confirm themself to someone else. (Besides, they presumably confirmed themself to someone N1.)

Because my working theory means the other FN can’t do what you propose.

@Walter where did Italiano announce he full claimed?

Not answering this.
Will answer why you are scum in morning.

Now this is interesting.

I THOUGHT Italiano was odd night FN and Walter, my n2 track target, was even night FN. I get the feeling that isnt correct based off this response, in which case I think Walter’s chance to be scum rises a fair amount.

FYI tracked RCE N1, my thought process has been checking people somewhat visible but without claimed active powers (RCE posted the fake day vig which put him on my radar, and Walter was the neighbor of a PR so I thought maybe he might either be PR or have an action).

So Italiano sent a Friendly Neighbor message to Nosferatu (who confirmed) on N1, and then you tracked WaltertheDunce to Italiano on N2? Then, instead of claiming, Walter voted you? Is this correct?

---

• Did Italiano think I was trying to quicklynch RCE?

VOTE: callforjudgement

What looker no I voted because gamma did not know italiano's claim. Which seemed off to me.
VOTE: unvote

[WaltertheDunce10]

Sums it up perfectly

[WaltertheDunce10]

Frog, why is that?

[WaltertheDunce10]

You believe she is tracker?

[WaltertheDunce10]

He is tracker?

[WaltertheDunce10]

True

[WaltertheDunce10]

God damn
Titus does this change if me and italiano are neighbors?

[WaltertheDunce10]

God damn
Titus does this change if me and italiano are neighbors?

Which we are.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Yeah, also frog has acted very weird with the votes on gamma I feel like.

[WaltertheDunce10]

@Nos - Radiant Cowbells. If we count alts and hydrae, I beat him probably.

@Walter - No. I am curious about it for the rule of three. Are you the only two? Were any of the dead in your hood?

Just me and italiano

[WaltertheDunce10]

Lol
Lol
Prob titus if gamma is town

[WaltertheDunce10]

Alright

[WaltertheDunce10]

Parity cop?

[WaltertheDunce10]

I am a tfn neighbor

[WaltertheDunce10]

Should I post all tfn actions by myself and italiano?

[WaltertheDunce10]

K

[WaltertheDunce10]

It is titus for n3.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I did try to send it to you so there.

[WaltertheDunce10]

A final question I have for everyone: Do you believe Gamma was really on tilt when he died?

Possibly prob had realized outing as tracker was not the right move.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I am not sure but otherwise why shade cfj about and try to reveal info.
I think it may have been the latter though I could go either way. The frustration could be either from being bussed by scum mate or scum mate not being helpful at all.

[WaltertheDunce10]

one of the more bizarre cases i've read

Nos who do you think it is?
And how do you find it bizzare?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Frog's d3 leaves a lot of qs.
I think that works.
VOTE: frog

[WaltertheDunce10]

I would also be fine with gerain also.

[WaltertheDunce10]

VOTE: gerain

[WaltertheDunce10]

Frog can be tomorrow if not gerain.

[WaltertheDunce10]

zap!
Yes, I agree day has stalled out.
Would you prefer frog?

[WaltertheDunce10]

I don't think it matters either.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Lets do gerain,
Sorry I have not been on either.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Good game.