"widening the poe" is also just quite literally never a correct tell although some people act like it isIn post 3084, SirCakez wrote:basically - the way you entered this game and have been playing seems like you're trying to widen the elim pool and put people who generally weren't being considered (like Taly, Skitter and myself) into play while diverting attention away from people like Peta and Dunn who were sussed after Pooky and Ceph flipped townIn post 3080, unwnd wrote:Cakez towncase yourself for me
Doesn't need to be a big one but like why am I just wrong on you
Moreover, why can't I just..be wrong on you? Why is it scum motivated
Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin
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free crypto- petapan
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again, like, rationally
the only reason he does that as scum is if the team is HARD again the wall and are generally all within the POE, and the only path to victory is a desperation play
i don't think any rational person believes that is what the game is like
instead coming in here and voicing unpopular opinions is likely to get you shouted down
but cakez here is shortcutting all that logic to use a cookie cutter argumentfree crypto- petapan
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wow great you're not shading the people who aren't viable wagons anymoreIn post 3061, SirCakez wrote:also it's fucking BS to say I'm accusing everyone when Peta is staging this to look like I accused all of these people at the same time when in reality this is a game-wide pregression.
I'm at null on Toog
ended up with town for Ceph
still TR Dwlee
nulltown Ulyana
nulltown Gamma
cool
great
wonderfulfree crypto- petapan
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lmao can't even maintain a consistent thought lineIn post 3146, unwnd wrote:
Yet your main scumread in Dunn who isn't active at all. Who fits there?In post 3145, SirCakez wrote:
With Toog - they are just trying so little that it almost feels too scummy to be scum, you know? AIn post 3125, unwnd wrote:@Cakez
You were pretty much about 'Toog being scum' early on and now you're at them being null and even some posts that read like you think they're town? Why? What changednd I have this instinct that scum is in the higher-activity players and they want to use Toog as a freelim when we can gain a lot more information by flipping someone who's active and controversial.Where does a Toog flip leave us regardless of alignment? Nowhere really.
And my other stronger scumreads all have Toog as someone they'd like to elim and it just feels wrong - someone else agreed with me on this I forget who.free crypto- petapan
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what the fuck does that even meanIn post 3151, SirCakez wrote:True but look at Dunn's ISO vs Toog's ISO. There's a lot more to work with in regards to Dunn.free crypto- petapan
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your claim is that there's "a lot more to work with"In post 3160, SirCakez wrote:
I literally just said I think your reason for scumreading me makes senseIn post 3158, unwnd wrote:Cakez you are so in the moment that it's almost bad. I think it's bad because there's no litigation to anything you say. You're just how you are and like that's fine if you're town but you're being scummy.
..Do you think you're not? I doubt that because everytime someone goes 'cakez you're being scummy' you go 'that's just how i am!!'
If you don't want people to focus on meta, why have that be your main defense?
you totally missed the point dude this is why I think you're not actually trying to sort mepetapan wrote:anyone who's not full of shit would recognize the dunn posts quoted there are a lot better
(also not out of line for him as town, but lolmeta)
you were like "how are dunn and toog different" and I pointed it out and then you're like "obviously Dunn looks better from those posts"
like that's not the point I was making? very obviously not?
that doesn't equate to any reasonable justification for him being scum
you know thisfree crypto- petapan
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yes great i think your reasoning is weasel shitIn post 3168, SirCakez wrote:That's not even my argument for Dunn being scum and you know that because I literally just requoted my argumentfree crypto- petapan
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she...hasn't posted since then?In post 3182, unwnd wrote:In terms of "I believe they have this read on me" from my own voters it'd be like Skitter > Infinity > Ydra> Saber.
Ydra dropped down because she just literally is ignoring the fact shit has happened since our fightfree crypto- petapan
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i would not make that assumptionIn post 3186, unwnd wrote:Basically don't think Skitter scum defends Cakez the way she has if Cakez is scum
granted on a gut level she's still town but i have nothing deeper until we get some form of actual flips and votingfree crypto- petapan
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i did think the point you had earlier about them trying to be more presentable as scum or whatever it was made senseIn post 3202, Infinity 324 wrote:
they could be in the above tier because i'm not sure scum!them plays like this, but it's just because they haven't really towntoldIn post 3191, unwnd wrote:Why is Dwlee at the bottom end of this? Just cause they scumread you?
pedit: that's fair i guess but i think scum could reasonably play like dwlee has played, for me it's not really enough atp
UNVOTE:free crypto- petapan
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i think it's likely a miss but i'm not standing in the doorwayIn post 3209, unwnd wrote:
Yeah alright I'll discard itIn post 3201, petapan wrote:
i would not make that assumptionIn post 3186, unwnd wrote:Basically don't think Skitter scum defends Cakez the way she has if Cakez is scum
granted on a gut level she's still town but i have nothing deeper until we get some form of actual flips and voting
Are you fine with voting Dunn off? Assume no based on your posts
not worth it and a big part of why this game is exhausting is the amount of shielding people are getting over tenuous crapfree crypto- petapan
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in the recent past orIn post 3212, SirCakez wrote:
I want to call them town for the same reason but they have totally bamboozled me in the past playing just like thisIn post 3198, unwnd wrote:Dwlee is like a top townread
I'm enamored by how much they little they seemingly care about like thread progression and others reads and just focus on shouting into the void
Can't really see any partners with them lol
because i don't think this is comparable to like dogs vs cats or mini normal 2232free crypto- petapan
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i literally only turned on him yesterday although i'm sure it feels like 2-3 IRL daysIn post 3216, unwnd wrote:
Lol I don't disagree but live to fight another day or something. We've both been ranting about Cakez for about 2-3 IRL days and his wagon has barely budged.In post 3213, petapan wrote:not worth it and a big part of why this game is exhausting is the amount of shielding people are getting over tenuous crap
most of the active people are sheer brick walls and i'm not clicking with them, i think some are predictably stubborn but i would wager it's not all natural, and then you have some people that are barely reachablefree crypto- petapan
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it actively should not be hard to flush a turd like him but there's enormous resistance to even the idea he should be flippedIn post 3222, unwnd wrote:Yeah and their posting is v scummy and if there's something that ruffles my feathers, blows smoke up my chimney, shakes my monkey tree it's that FUCKING people are calling them LHF bait and it's like no offense to toog but they're always LHF bait but there's a crumb of sincerity and willingness and here they're just like ughhh im bored let's kill some fucking people lol
the only possible reasons for this are agendaed play (regardless of his alignment) or people just overthinking and being scared to miss on an objectively worthless player who adds no value to the game and is -EV by sheer existence
there's a few people here who might be prone to that overthinking but the way the game has positioned itself around him? feels fucking unnaturalfree crypto- petapan
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i'm only controversial because i'm living rent-free in your headIn post 3244, SirCakez wrote:
Unwnd, myself, Peta, Infinity (although I don't think there's a world where Peta dies today)In post 3240, Dunnstral wrote:
Name namesIn post 3219, SirCakez wrote:while leaving all of the controversial slots untouchedfree crypto- petapan
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enough to put him to lead wagon status the way things are and most people seemed to be like "yeah sure i'm okay with him dying"In post 3246, SirCakez wrote:
I don't really think this is true? there's like what? four votes on him?In post 3243, petapan wrote:like it ought to say something that it's significantly easier to get votes on dunn, someone who has actual thoughts on this game
do we really think dunn is being hung out to dry by his team here without an attempt to kill anyone else, because i fairly doubt that
certainly notably i feel like i'm the only persondefendinghim in any meaningful way
fact check me if this isn't truefree crypto- petapan
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not true if he dies we'll be down one person who wasn't playing the game and can make judgment on who was playing with knowledge of his alignmentIn post 3252, SirCakez wrote:because literally no matter what Toog flips we are gonna be in the same gamestate tomorrowfree crypto- petapan
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iIn post 3261, SirCakez wrote:i feel like this game will be a key factor on how I play mafia going forward depending on how people flip
ugh
Spoiler:free crypto- petapan
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because i don't see how that translates into flipping him being a better choice at allIn post 3264, SirCakez wrote:
you agreed with me that Dunn's ISO is "better" than Toog's so I'm not sure how you're stuck up on thisIn post 3262, petapan wrote:
read 3151In post 3258, petapan wrote:you provide "information" or somethingfree crypto- petapan
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it's just tiltingly bad philosophy because i can think of plenty of examples where people big brained themselves into thinking they had to go for the "controversial" or "spicy" flip because they didn't want to take the easy oneIn post 3265, unwnd wrote:I've gotten the vibes too but I also feel like Cakez is being all dah controversial slots while making a drool puddle and saying vote Dunn
But maybe that's townie toofree crypto- petapan
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nahIn post 3268, SirCakez wrote:maybe dunn isn't "controversial" but there's certainly more resistance to wagoning him than Toog as evidenced by the last ~5 pagesfree crypto- petapan
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Subject: Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!
like it's consistent within his philosophySirCakez wrote:I think the arguments are flawed because like some have said we get extremely little info from yeeting NM and his elim is not super helpful either way he flips.
it's just objectively bad playfree crypto- petapan
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yeah probably, i mean i already said the post i quoted earlier is a towny one i just hate admitting itIn post 3275, unwnd wrote:Like if Toog flips red then Cakez is just out in nowhere land but I'd happily think it's towniefree crypto- petapan
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not going to pretend i'm at cop guilty levels of confidence but i maintain flipping someone who is not playing the game is literally always a healthy one to make and you should at least recognize the biased thinking where you're always looking for some complicated answer and end up tunneling nachofree crypto- petapan
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if u mean the bulge vote that actually was legitimately pivotal because menalque had leveled himself into not being able to make itIn post 3286, Ydrasse wrote:And yet silly little ydrasse stood victorious for (checks notes) voting someone once
Working hard or hardly working? You decide
the shit people let hydras get away with is absurdfree crypto- petapan
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dude i memed you into thinking he was my partner because i was practically outed and hard defending himIn post 3290, SirCakez wrote:
oh wait no i didntIn post 3289, SirCakez wrote:
ok to be fair to myself I did end up reading Nacho correctly that gameIn post 3287, petapan wrote:not going to pretend i'm at cop guilty levels of confidence but i maintain flipping someone who is not playing the game is literally always a healthy one to make and you should at least recognize the biased thinking where you're always looking for some complicated answer and end up tunneling nacho
ooffree crypto- petapan
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i mean like that game was 50-ish posts of me deliberately trying to be as chaotic as possible because i realized i was in a slot that was near consensus scum and the only thing i could to was try to confuse associations after i flippedIn post 3296, unwnd wrote:Kinda makes me weary to townread him here because his ego must be taking off like a rocket but
Nah let's kill toog
not really comparable!
i just would not be playing the way i am as scum but people are scaredfree crypto- petapan
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your trajectory on toog was bad and i didn't like your iso on review, the position was mostly consensus except for gamma who loudly objectedIn post 3364, Infinity 324 wrote:sorry ulya i should've stayed on saber, forgot about seniority rules
i don't know why i was the suspect herefree crypto- petapan
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saber initially called out infinity's vote on dunn as a potential bus
this is partly problematic because i think saber's posts in the topic were absolutely fucking wretched but i wasn't going to talk myself out of a vote because a suspect was leading it. unwnd was actually looking at other people briefly before the sub out because he suspected saber and didn't want to vote with herfree crypto- petapan
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i'm not sure why that should matter?In post 3380, Infinity 324 wrote:
my trajectory on toog was pretty consistent right?In post 3375, petapan wrote:
your trajectory on toog was bad and i didn't like your iso on review, the position was mostly consensus except for gamma who loudly objectedIn post 3364, Infinity 324 wrote:sorry ulya i should've stayed on saber, forgot about seniority rules
i don't know why i was the suspect herefree crypto- petapan
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i think i had wavered toward him being petulant town but i'm very hard up for scumreads elsewhere and he probably gets POEd at some pointIn post 3403, ulyana wrote:
thumbs upIn post 3400, Ydrasse wrote:
i don’t really think he is and i said that dunn/toog was s/s theatre s:In post 3397, ulyana wrote:
why do you think toogeloo is currently alive if town?In post 3395, Ydrasse wrote:we
would like everyone's opinion on this!!!free crypto- petapan
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wow i just reread my own postIn post 3406, Infinity 324 wrote:
well what's your problem with itIn post 3401, petapan wrote:i'm not sure why that should matter?
*your trajectory onDUNNwas bad is what i meant to sayfree crypto- petapan
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fwiw i don't even think this is town-AI for me and Gamma Emerald would tell you as much but i think in terms of process i was much less clean/presentable because i wasn't trying to work the game into some sort of beneficial narrativeIn post 3395, Ydrasse wrote:peta put in... a whole lot of work in our pt that we talked aboutfree crypto- petapan
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it doesn't, optimal play from a fresh spin is 50/50 although there's a chance someone could misplay and hand the other player an advantage, which is the only reason i can think for him spinning immediately after toogIn post 3421, Gypyx wrote:
well i dunno, maybe the bullet was later down the barrel and toog spinning made things go unpredicatble (actually that's a really likely theory)In post 3412, ulyana wrote:but... why wouldn't scum!dunn just shoot town!toogeloo? instead of 50/50? and after toogeloo made it clear was going to spin barrel if town why wouldn't scum!dunn spin the barrel instead of scum claiming?
or he wanted toog to go first after spinning the barrel, cuz it has better mathematical odds if i recall my calculations correctly
personally i think in that scenario if i have a teammate with a gun and a townie in the other spot i have them openwolf and just shoot the opponent with the first chambered shot because it still means town wastes a phase eliminating themfree crypto- petapan
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why would he be trying to pocket someone on the cusp of eliminationIn post 3425, Gypyx wrote:this feels so much like a pocketing post, although i can't remember the last time i've seen pocketing so idk lolfree crypto- petapan
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In post 185, Infinity 324 wrote:hi cakez
i agree with dunn's approach. i think any other approach involves some form of mod WIFOM that's probably not great to get intoIn post 209, Infinity 324 wrote:Dunn is your pooky vote serious? if so whyIn post 1266, Infinity 324 wrote:VOTE: galron cause i don't like either of the other wagons, tbf i'm terrible at reading dunn but the fact that he's getting wagoned d1 is probably +townIn post 1940, Infinity 324 wrote:like maybe the scumteam is dunn/galron/ydrasse/ceph but probably not right
idk who i should be looking at that i'm notIn post 2067, Infinity 324 wrote:hmm
VOTE: gypyx
i feel like gamma being town makes prism slot a lot more likely to be scum
this or ydrasse are my favorite votes atm
other thoughts:
i think cakez is decently towny
i've liked dunn's posting so far but pooky scumread him and pooky also had a really good tmi-based scumread on dunn in silent star 3In post 2115, Infinity 324 wrote:
this is fairIn post 2104, Dunnstral wrote:To relitigate:
Somebody said that Gamma was trying to get into the chair
I said that they already had a chance to get into the chair if they wanted to
Somebody said that they wouldn't self vote into the chair because they wanted to look town
Even if point 3 is correct, that doesn't make anything tmi (or even wrong... the first point never said anything about looking town, the third point expanded on assumptions that were unsaidIn post 2268, Infinity 324 wrote:@dunn who is scum (besides cakez)In post 2326, Infinity 324 wrote:i agree with unwnd's read on dunnIn post 2332, Infinity 324 wrote:
I mean yeah, I feel like the pattern you pointed out is generally true for dunnIn post 2329, unwnd wrote:I don't know your own experience with Dunn but I do know we were in RPG together where I defended you (correctly) against a Ydra/Dunn team where I finally had the gumption to vote Dunn out. Are you seeing lack of parallel from that?In post 3187, Infinity 324 wrote:
i don't have strong scumreads yeahIn post 3180, SirCakez wrote:hm ok
who do you have as scum besides unwnd right now? I just re-ISOed you and you definitely have done more than I remembered but I have like
zero grasp on where you actually want this game to go
you feel very go-with-the-flowy
{taly, gamma}
{ydrasse, ulyana}
{peta, skitt, cakez}
{toog, dunn}
{saber, gypyx, dwlee, unwnd}
i have too many townreads and most of this day phase i've been trying to sort out who of the bottom tier is the worst
and whenever i vote someone they start townposting or there's a reason to unvote so ahh
like unwnd just started townposting
ahh
fwiw here's infinity's ISO on dunn. it feels bad.
the early vote on him in RVS-ish territory feels like it could be distancing, the thing scum do in early game where they are overly self conscious and call out unimportant stuff. the vote transitioning into asking him about it feels like looking for an excuse to get away from it. from there, she moves more toward soft defending him, saying him getting wagoned makes him more likely to be town, saying she liked his posting but hedging with a reference to pooky, and then piggybacking off unwnd's initial dunn read to have him as town, he only really drops in the reads later in the day but no visible reason for doing so and he's kept out of the bottom tier of reads
this is all stuff i quoted in the PT although i didn't fully flesh it out because i didn't need tofree crypto- petapan
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i entertained various tinfoils in the topic but it didn't feel right to go deepwolf hunting off the flip versus voting the person who looks face value bad
i think taly's stance on Dunn was a little inconsistent in places and i realized i was giving him credit for simply being able to write decent looking posts, assumed it was a style he'd have a hard time replicating as scum which is not the case. i wanted to review more comprehensively but didn't have the time. i think some of the stuff he's done has, like, ~real feeling~ attached to it rather than tactical scumplay but wouldn't necessarily clear him. looks better if infinity is scum though
ulyana is very hard to figure out and had barely any interactions with dunn but the absence of evidence isn't necessarily an indictment. i think in the end i leaned toward the aggression in questioning people being town-AI although it feels like it's been in the wrong direction so far mostly, and also by activity she blows away any of her scumgames. couldn't go there in good conscience.free crypto- petapan
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i don't know why you're explaining yourself to me hereIn post 3451, Infinity 324 wrote:@peta dunn has moved around a bit in my reads cause i'm indecisive and haven't been good at reading him in the past, but he never got above a light townread, which for me meant still in the PoE. i was looking for reasons to townread/scumread him above others in my poe, but those were mostly tiebreakers.free crypto- petapan
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petapan Don Corelone
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this was all in hindsight reading for me, the bit in 2882 where you were suspicious of what unwnd/gamma/toog were doing, and as of right now i'm convinced the first two are town. toog tbd i guessIn post 3467, ulyana wrote:
if you think is in wrong direction you can say 'slow down for a minute, what you're doing right now does not make sense to me and here is why' because like, there are obviously a lot of things i might not be thinking of and when people are just like, 'she's doing wrong things' and do not explain to me why it's wrong it feels like just trying to make people feel a way about me instead of help me to get on track because... i can be useful! and since you're somewhat unfamiliar with me (having only played marathon games together unless i am misremembering) and think i am very far off so far in this game maybe you do not find it likely that i could be useful, but!! i have been beforeIn post 3461, petapan wrote:i leaned toward the aggression in questioning people being town-AI although it feels like it's been in the wrong direction so far mostly
that's not damning in and of itself because townies are often wrong and i've been pushing people i think are likely town now, that's part of the game
it's just something i noted because i don't think you've had any stance that i'd call clearing
but we will see how things go as the game progressesfree crypto - petapan
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