Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[Taly]

I'm out. My limit has been reached. Only contact me if you feel it benefits your solve ability.

[Taly]

I don't think you're being unfair anymore. I know I am being difficult. I don't know what what do about that. I just can't think about this game right now.

VLA until Saturday

[Taly]

I'm not frustrated anymore, I am sad and struggling to regulate it.

[Taly]

It's not you or anyone else but me,

peta

.

Thanks

Ydra

[Taly]

It's OK, I'm good with what you want to do.

Sorry for injecting an emotional environment in here. It's not representative of me in most games even when I am eliminated, and I will be response and take this out of thread. Thank you for your patience guys.

[Taly]

I'm doing a good chunk better.

I'm open to discussing your current cases on the Gamma's, peta.

And I am OK with being eliminated if you lot feel it is optimal.

I mean, technically, I think we are in a lose-lose situation so vote with who you want to take to elo.

[Taly]

Peta, what do you think is more likely?

Gamma-scum wanted to kill off potential mislim Galron and scum stopped this to protect themselves. It could be inferred that Galron was a framing, if Gamma is scum here, but why wasn't that a point of discussion in the duel?

Or

Gamma-town was right in the ballpark of susaing a lot of slots that scum both wanted to kingmake, but they felt a sabotage would be the most effective way at protecting them?

[Taly]

Since I'm certain Gamma/Galron truly was a T/S relationship, we can definitively say that scum was on both wagons.

I recall Skittwe being on Galron, and Saber on Gamma.

[Taly]

Gamma's wagon was also much stronger and likeliest to succeed over any other at the end of Event 1.

So scum either voted Galron with the desire to avoid backlash (since they aren't distancing from Gamma-scum in this reality) or they're wanting Galron-scum to be a safe runner-up kingmaker so they control the shot. This assumes they knew what kingmaker does though.

[Taly]

The exempt: Taly, Ydrasse, skitter30, Infinity 324, ulyana, Gypyx
The tbd: Saber, PookyTheMagicalBear, SirCakez, Toogeloo, Galron, Dunnstral
The watchlist: Dwlee99, Cephrir, petapan

Anyone in the top row I will not shoot. The bottom row is where I’d feel best shooting. Middle row is folks I need to suss out, or at least don’t want to kill yet but not enough to take them off the table. Names might move around the bottom two tiers a bit, but if a name is in the top tier expect it to stay there. These also aren’t in direct correlation with my reads because like, I’d rate ulya as in the next-to-bottom tier using my existing method, but desire to hash stuff out with her puts her squarely outside the realm of ever being someone I execute here.

Also, had the thought that things might get switched over after my shot where I don’t get to post during the vote to execute or spare me. So I’m glad I’ve already decided to put down just about everything I’m thinking if that ends up being the case.

I think maybe we should give the throne to someone who

doesn't

want it

because scumbags know if this thing is good or not.

if it's good, scumbags will want it.

if it's bad, scumbags won't want it.

So if we give it to someone who wants it, it's more likely we give it to a scumbag if it's good, and a non-scumbag if it's bad.

I think maybe we should give the throne to someone who

doesn't

want it

because scumbags know if this thing is good or not.

if it's good, scumbags will want it.

if it's bad, scumbags won't want it.

So if we give it to someone who wants it, it's more likely we give it to a scumbag if it's good, and a non-scumbag if it's bad.

Yeah it seems like Pooky is on my wavelength that I expressed in response to 126 about how scum would’ve approached this.

Also I think I can pinpoint the page this post was on as where everything went to shit for me.

its almost like he knows something we dont

More like I just dgaf
I’ve already basically checked out because I tried playing serious and it felt like everyone had a problem with that. So instead I’m just being Captain Capricious and doing whatever the fuck I want. And rn I want to fuck with people.

Looking back it’s clear what the catalyst for me going “fuck this game” was: it was Prism and peta barking at me for responses and answers. I basically had the reaction of “going with this is just going to make this game infinitely more exhausting than I’d like, so I’m going to defy it”. Turns out this game ended up being exhausting but not because of a million questions.

Also, another very random note that Pooky evoked: if a dance event comes up and we’re both alive for it, I want to pair with Cakez.

I’m shifting into ISO reading for probably the rest of my deliberation because just reading the game regularly is starting to feel like the well of info has dried
Saber’s early progression through the game seems pretty alright, I just feel like there was a lot of flowery content in the way of that and we also had the square-off about my TRs that set me against her. I’d like a chance to actually have a heart-to-heart, so she’s exempted from the kill.

I think I’m also good with exempting Cakez for a couple of reasons. Let’s get this out of the way first, yes I want to dance with him eventually. He also just, hasn’t felt scummy at all? I feel like I’m normally really good at picking out when his vibes are off. I managed to ID CL!Cakez off of a very loose grasp of his play in 3d20. Times where I’ve been off-track are probably mostly attributable to other factors.

I’m starting to feel weary, so I’ll finish this up after sleepy time

alright back to the grind
pooky is still about where I last had him, he's towny pretty consistently but I'm kinda just wary because he's swindled me a good few times in the past, and none of his posting rises up as pure town posting like his vibe check thing from Radio Buzz. But it's enough to not go there.

In a way it feels like Dunnstral has been playing a different game than the rest of us, his focus and thought process seems so out of line with what's going on. While that's probably scum-indicating, I also feel like it's something I again want to put up for discussion rather than acting on now.

I feel like Toog’s contributions up to now feel very hit-or-miss. The middle of his ISO kinda feels the worst. I’m not sure how much I think it needs litigating, hrrrrm. I’ll skip a final determination for now.

Galron’s posting looks pretty not-okay looking at it with fresh eyes. I feel like from the beginning he was hoping to pocket me. I’ve had talks with a friend from this site that have led me to realize that it’s honestly very rare to see scum all against me. When I’m in the hot seat, it seems more often scum will take a broad set of stances on me. His play around my slot just feels very engineered to make a good impression on me overall.

So my list of names atp is down to (Cephrir, Dwlee, peta, Galron), with Toog as a maybe.

Deciding to do ISOs on the non-Galron shot options as well
I really feel like Cephrir’s push on me doesn’t feel right. It feels like he’s stuck in a spot of

having

to push me, which kinda builds on the idea that scum were stancing up around me in different planned-out ways.

On second thought I actually don’t want to shoot peta here because I feel like there’s things I want to discuss with him. I feel like my bad reaction to being questioned by him and Prism is partly caused by my plurality situation that I’ve mentioned before in other places (which I still need to work on my big document about).
When my parents are grilling me for answers I either don’t want to give or straight-up don’t have, one of my alters starts to come out, one that is currently known as Z (it has an actual name, as do most of the others, but until I find a name for the last one I need it for, that being M, I’m not going to use the full names in public content until the whole system is covered). Z is on record as not really having much access to my memories, and is prone to irritability under pressure. My thought process going fuzzy and me refusing to engage are clear indication that Z was at the wheel att. While on this subject, when I lashed out at Prism the last time, that was a different alter, known as D. D sometimes feels combined with M but is notably more aggressive while M is assertive.
I’m not trying to dodge any connection to my actions, Z and D are part of me and so I wrote those posts. But I feel like given how my interactions with peta have basically been off from what I think they should from the beginning, I want to try to change my approach, be more sympathetic towards the people I’ve been short with in the past. Obviously I can’t do anything wrt Prism now but I can give peta a fair shake.

Not much to say about Dwlee’s ISO, still think the dumbtelling was bad, still not a fan of how he feels bent against my view of the game. The big thing on my mind wrt the second thing is he and Saber have felt very similar in that regard, and for a couple of reasons I think that makes Dwlee/Saber likely not S/S.

After having given myself a framework, Toog!scum feels more within the realm of possibility. His play feels at least a little in line with what I’m expecting scum to have done here.

Gonna watch the anniversary screening of Evil Dead soon. Once I finish with that, I think it’s time to give someone the boot.

Also, had the thought that things might get switched over after my shot where I don’t get to post during the vote to execute or spare me. So I’m glad I’ve already decided to put down just about everything I’m thinking if that ends up being the case.

I reread the post describing the event and this isn’t the case, thank goodness.

I think I have my choice. The player I have in mind to execute seems like scum on a number of metrics, and I think should be somewhat well-received.
It’s Galron. I feel like the people who feel scummy based on positioning are probably sketchier than those that I just dislike how they’ve interfaced with my reads. And out of those who’ve seemed to have scummy positioning, Galron just keeps cropping up as the one that feels the most errant. From the word go it seems he wanted to act like he was in my corner, most likely because he’d seen how ferocious I’d been in Radio Buzz and in 2234. And since he was the other wagon that took off yesterday, I think it’s best we nix him here.
VOTE: Galron
I see no reason to put this off any further.

If Gamma is scum, then the only teammate he protected was Skitter, and he did so without needing to justify why.

However, Saber, Dunn, and Galron were all in his PoE. That's an alarming 3 out of 4 scum if Galron is scum here.

It's also notable to look at Gamma's progression. I feel like his reasons for shooting Dunn/Galron outweighed Dwlee/Toog in terms of what was likelier sxunplay here. Not to say that Galron is scum, but I I saying that if Galrob is scum, the scumteam was privy to a very high possibility to having one of their own shot and couldn't even clearly tell who by Gamma's posting alone.

So a sabotage makes sense for Gamma-town if you believe Galron could've been scum.

And the only reason I could consider Gamma-scum being possible here is if the team just wanted to distance from Gamma.... because they used up a sabotage when a towny was most likely getting shot.

[Taly]

And if you believe that the scumteam didn't have the time to adjust their sabotage to protecting a teammate?

Then why did scum sabotage to begin with?

[Taly]

It could be because Pooky was the biggest town threat, and I think that's the best theory.

But of Gamma-scum is just thestre, why have Pooky in the PoE if Gamma knew he was going to die and flip town?

I just can't answer a Gamma-scum POV as easily as town-Gamma off this information.

[Taly]

To pressure Gemerald is scum is such a mindfuck because I've played with him on/off for years and I don't think he can fake his own thoughts process as scum.

IE, I don't think Gamma can pretend to be uninformed to this level of play or most players given how much he began this game with Tv?'ing Prism

[Taly]

To presume*

[Taly]

He didn't but do you think Gamma will have a perspective difference in how he approaches Prism that is AI?

I think so, and while I can't verbalize it so well, I don't think that spat determined Gamma's readslist or progression I the game whereas I feel like he would show a bigger agenda as scum.

Why doesn't Gamma target Gypyx over such a reversal in thoughts between the two players and predecessor?

Scum don't want to admit to a fallacious argument against any entity that challenges them.

[Taly]

Eh I tried to be impartial as I want to not confbias

But Gamma's consistent vex with about half of the plist st any given event phase in this reads as town struggling to have control.

I feel like scum would be better suited to roll with the punches if they ended Event 1 being as townread as Gamma had been.

[Taly]

i think the fighting had more to do with gamma and prism as individuals than it did than gamma and prism/gypyx as slots

Exactly

That's why I lean it being a TvT more than not

[Taly]

Eh I tried to be impartial as I want to not confbias

But Gamma's consistent vex with about half of the plist st any given event phase in this reads as town struggling to have control.

I feel like scum would be better suited to roll with the punches if they ended Event 1 being as townread as Gamma had been.

I mean, why does Gamma scum get pissy when hr fails to defend Infinity? An Infinity townflips vindicates him. So why doesn't he take advantage if he were scum as opposed to just voicing frustration?

Why does he 1v1 with Dwlee if Dwlee is town that could die in the crossing and shade him?

[Taly]

eh

i don't think that it's tvt because of that honestly, it's separate to their alignments in game, and it did stem (?) from prism actually calling out gamma after having caught gamma a few times so

not gleaning alignment stuff from that

Then what do you think about Gamma/Galron Event 1 gamestate in retrospect?

Because you were the first person that told me in Event 2 that you trusted town's judgment enough that Gamma/Galron were actually TvS and I foolishly overlooked your potential logic for why.

So if anything is AI for Gamma here specifically, I want to hear.

[Taly]

i could be wrong, of course. maybe this is a next-level troll by taly. then i'll look foolish shortly, but i'm okay with that. but i have reasons to doubt there, i can look at stuff taly did and see it coming from scum but can also see it coming from town. and so i have to look at contingencies

For what it's worth, I won't ever get as upset over a game as last page. I know that's probably just more WIFOM right now, but I genuinely would not troll you here if I knew I was rightfully caught.

[Taly]

For what it's worth, I won't ever get as upset over a game as last page

As scum* oof phone deleting psrts

[Taly]

I mean, it's hard to really define any vote in Event 1 as bussing because while we believed it was to hurt a scumread, the team could've known it was for something good

So a motive on why scum was either on a buddy or limbaity is hard to identify.

[Taly]

Eh I tried to be impartial as I want to not confbias

But Gamma's consistent vex with about half of the plist st any given event phase in this reads as town struggling to have control.

I feel like scum would be better suited to roll with the punches if they ended Event 1 being as townread as Gamma had been.

I mean, why does Gamma scum get pissy when hr fails to defend Infinity? An Infinity townflips vindicates him. So why doesn't he take advantage if he were scum as opposed to just voicing frustration?

Why does he 1v1 with Dwlee if Dwlee is town that could die in the crossing and shade him?

1) why does any scum whiteknight for town? it's for the credit of it all and infinity is a very reasonable person that gamma would go to bat for so it makes sense, and i don't think scum was ever... really in danger of being nommed from our pt, so.

2) and i mean, he's getting called out for his behavior now but it's... to kill a townie, weaken their position, etc? scum inevitably have to fight town in games, and town inevitably has to die... and being shaded versus killing a townie is a worthwhile trade

I don't see a point where Gamma ever capitalizes on WKing Infinity.

Do you think Dwlee's NK was purposeful or just to prevent town's wincon?

[Taly]

i would be relatively surprised if skitter went all in on bussing galron on day 1 over a town counterwagon while protecting dunn so hard - she'd just as likely bus dunn where he was an easy kill

Like bussing in this Cass could've just been Skitter wanting a scum counter for kingmaker, is my point.

[Taly]

The biggest thing that continues to elude me is that both

Peta/Ydra

agree

Gemerald

is the most likely scum right now but

Ggy

hasn't interacted with why that much?

[Taly]

These noms were shitty on retrospect and I don't think it's unfair for me to conclude this even if I am a biased party.

[Taly]

I mean, it's hard to really define any vote in Event 1 as bussing because while we believed it was to hurt a scumread, the team could've known it was for something good

So a motive on why scum was either on a buddy or limbaity is hard to identify.

i mean, but byond that, skitter wanted the duel to be unwnd/dunn in event 2, which just seems...like way too much bussing?

and by comparison skitter's pushes on dunn/saber were significantly weaker than when she went after a town

I need to actually check but

Did the duel ever explicitly say someone was going to die?

[Taly]

I just don't think it's far off for a teammate to bus 2 partners here if they both had an easy out or would look really attractive late game.

[Taly]

Eh I tried to be impartial as I want to not confbias

But Gamma's consistent vex with about half of the plist st any given event phase in this reads as town struggling to have control.

I feel like scum would be better suited to roll with the punches if they ended Event 1 being as townread as Gamma had been.

I mean, why does Gamma scum get pissy when hr fails to defend Infinity? An Infinity townflips vindicates him. So why doesn't he take advantage if he were scum as opposed to just voicing frustration?

Why does he 1v1 with Dwlee if Dwlee is town that could die in the crossing and shade him?

1) why does any scum whiteknight for town? it's for the credit of it all and infinity is a very reasonable person that gamma would go to bat for so it makes sense, and i don't think scum was ever... really in danger of being nommed from our pt, so.

2) and i mean, he's getting called out for his behavior now but it's... to kill a townie, weaken their position, etc? scum inevitably have to fight town in games, and town inevitably has to die... and being shaded versus killing a townie is a worthwhile trade

I don't see a point where Gamma ever capitalizes on WKing Infinity.

Do you think Dwlee's NK was purposeful or just to prevent town's wincon?

i don't think that you inherently have to capitalize on it for it to make you look good/like a read you were invested in/etc, it just happens, people recall it as something you did; gamma did leverage it once (people bowing to his reads) that i can recall off the top of my head though

i think it was to prevent wincon because it was the 1st kill and least information for town to work with.

I agree to both points but I wonder how Ggy slot looks in the same timelinw here

[Taly]

Hmmmm. That weakens my stance but I don't think skitter is afraid to bus that much as scum.

[Taly]

Ggy do you regret your noms?

[Taly]

and the galrunwooey slot has overall been forcefully calling for scum elims where gemerald has...not been

I find the former mentality more likely informed in practice.

[Taly]

I kill more townies in 1 town game than I do in half of my scum games.

[Taly]

It's tragic and unfortunately very funny

[Taly]

Hmmmm. That weakens my stance but I don't think skitter is afraid to bus that much as scum.

afraid to bus, no, certainly not

but it's not a first resort from everything i've seen

Are you presuming this by a standard of a normal mafia game or do you think it's just always unusual for scum to super-bus their first chance?

Because I've seen it happen before.

[Taly]

I don't know
I see your guys' points but I don't feel the reasons on Gemerald scum thus far are very strong.

[Taly]

and the galrunwooey slot has overall been forcefully calling for scum elims where gemerald has...not been

I find the former mentality more likely informed in practice.

not when GE has 2 scum is his POE on day 1/2 but doesn't follow up on them

Can you share a few posts or redirect me to if you already quoted?

[Taly]

Ggy do you regret your noms?

no

do you still love me <3 ?

[Taly]

Like, I'm 100% dying this phase.

Every post these past 2 pages, if I were scum, is... really difficult to conceptualize. If it were in your guys' shoes.

[Taly]

i dont think anyone thinks youre scum except maybe gooey :<

Not saying this as some sort of voodoo reverse psychology bullshit to save my ass (because I know it won't work)

I just don't know how this is anything but "Taly has more WIFOM and less reason to clear than Ydra" VS "Taly is just the final scum"

And that's why I can't believe Ggy actually believes I'm scum because he doesn't feel regret or a reason to rethink here.

[Taly]

Ggy do you regret your noms?

no

do you still love me <3 ?

Love is maybe a bit too strong and similar to peta I'm kind of irked at your play this phase.

Still like you as a person a lot tho and most of the time as a player too

I'm a dead bird walking. Yall just didn't expect my flare when I'm pushed;)

[Taly]

given the gamestate skitter actually leading the charge on galron was very strange if it was otherwise a runaway town wagon

For event 1; skitter could've wanted a scum kingmaker

And for events after? What incentive would skitter have to relieve herself of a bus?

[Taly]

i dont think anyone thinks youre scum except maybe gooey :<

Not saying this as some sort of voodoo reverse psychology bullshit to save my ass (because I know it won't work)

I just don't know how this is anything but "Taly has more WIFOM and less reason to clear than Ydra" VS "Taly is just the final scum"

And that's why I can't believe Ggy actually believes I'm scum because he doesn't feel regret or a reason to rethink here.

that's fine for you to think

I'm not going to get past your play in regards to the pink PT and how you prevented a Saber nomination that scum was pushing for, and that you never took me or anyone else seriously enough to follow through on the skitter suspicions you said you had during the InfinityvsPeta event that weren't brought up again when skitter or Fire was in actual danger from the crossing event.

I'm not gonna paraphrase 21 pages of the pink PT that was just annoying to gi through the first time

And how did I prevent the Saber nom anymore than Ulya/Toog/Dwlee?

You can't answer that. So why does this make Pink PT the group with 2 scums?

The 6 players that weren't voting Toog, a town for the duel.

[Taly]

Go on Ggy, how did I prevent a Saber nom?

[Taly]

We all want to know.

[Taly]

LMFAO

[Taly]

i dont think anyone thinks youre scum except maybe gooey :<

Not saying this as some sort of voodoo reverse psychology bullshit to save my ass (because I know it won't work)

I just don't know how this is anything but "Taly has more WIFOM and less reason to clear than Ydra" VS "Taly is just the final scum"

And that's why I can't believe Ggy actually believes I'm scum because he doesn't feel regret or a reason to rethink here.

that's fine for you to think

I'm not going to get past your play in regards to the pink PT and how you prevented a Saber nomination that scum was pushing for, and that you never took me or anyone else seriously enough to follow through on the skitter suspicions you said you had during the InfinityvsPeta event that weren't brought up again when skitter or Fire was in actual danger from the crossing event.

I'm not gonna paraphrase 21 pages of the pink PT that was just annoying to gi through the first time

And how did I prevent the Saber nom anymore than Ulya/Toog/Dwlee?

You can't answer that. So why does this make Pink PT the group with 2 scums?

sure is YOU CAN'T PROVE I'M SCUM over here

I'm just curious how that blossoming partnership came to be. The only thing you had in common was wanting Ydrasse out.

I'm curious why your stance in the PT was to sheep either me or

Skitter

, despite our increasingly differing viewpoints.

Who in the pink room wanted Cakez or saber
Atp the best theory I can reconcile is that scum are basically all low-impact

I was the only person who actively campaigned for

Cakez

,

Ulya

made the vote later in the phase but

peta[/n] had seniority by this point if I remember correctly.

Most of everyone was OK with a

Saber

nom,

Skitter

personally campaigning for it. But I wanted to sort

Saber

directly this phase.

This still doesn't answer how or if I really did prevent a Saber nom. It was just reasoning gave for not being on the Saber vote. And nobody else but Infinitt in the PT was too interested in Saber nom.

[Taly]

AtEing to the best of his ability and hoping that someone will find it town enough to vote Ydrasse over them.

the thought did cross my mind

props to you if you made this post while being informed

And then what? Ydra flips town and I as scum have to hope for a good event 10 to win?

I've lost if I'm scum, but not as town, even upon dying this phase, which i will not stop.

[Taly]

peta it's not you that I'm pressuring

[Taly]

Go on Ggy, how did I prevent a Saber nom?

We all want to know.

Still waiting.

[Taly]

AtEing to the best of his ability and hoping that someone will find it town enough to vote Ydrasse over them.

the thought did cross my mind

props to you if you made this post while being informed

And then what? Ydra flips town and I as scum have to hope for a good event 10 to win?

I've lost if I'm scum, but not as town, even upon dying this phase, which i will not stop.

better than dying

please don't insult my intelligence by saying that as scum you'd give up here instead of continuing posting and hoping people would flip their reads on you, even if you thought is was very low % to work.

Please don't minimize my sincerity that I wouldn't AtE to be saved as scum.

I could be posting now to be saved as scum, but not the AtE.

[Taly]

This is a two-way street after all.

[Taly]

LMFAO how do you know how the pink PT went?

And why did Skitter vote for petapan in the end when she could've just bussed Saber?

The argument that I'm scum because a Saber nom didn't happen is not a concrete reason to suspect me because flipped town also had a POV very similar to mine.

[Taly]

I'll leave it here for tonight, you're a shrewd player

Ggy

.

[Taly]

Sure, but I'll just say one thing

To imply I had a lot of influence or spent my time doing nothing in the PT isn't something I would think people just assume about me, or would directly take from the PinK PT team members recollection of the thread. Because our thread was very active, just incohesive

Your reason for scumpushing me here infers some understanding of what I did in the PT, not just where my vote landed or how I talked about the events.

[Taly]

And if you really aren't informed, then your premise is weak.

[Taly]

Taly on the other hand has dumped tons and tons of thoughts into the thread about potential scum,

What are you saying here? That all my pushes this game were half-ased?

complained about previous choices of "why didn't I put Saber in the duel!"

This is a blatant misrepreswntation. Not once had I preferred to put Saber in the duel on retrospect. A nom, yes, but this phrasing is inconsistent with the timeline.

,

but pushed for people to go with consensus reads while nudging those reads away from scum (aside from Dunn who wasn't participating enough in the game to be worth defending long-term), which fits WAY more in terms of what I expect scum to try to do to get townies eliminated without coming under fire for it.

Huh?

1. What consensus reads did I push people to make?
2. Where is the argument that I'm scum here?
3. How did I budge views away from scum that I was correct on like Dunn - who I wagoned Event 2?

I can't follow your argument on me at all and it feels left-field compared to what you were just implying about my Pink PT performance.

Did you know I spent most of the pink PT 1v1ing Skitter on my Ydrasse read? Not that you'd care to hear me dispel the mystery of Event 4.

[Taly]

Like dude I don't know how you're spewing this bullshit.

[Taly]

It doesn't make any sense coming form town.

[Taly]

It's incomplete at best snd disingenuous at worst.

Why are all these points you accuse me of only applicable to me and not other players in the thread?

You tote around the fact that I'm a player that supposedly has a lot of thread influence and replenishes game health, but the second you have the opportunity to break the townbloc, it's all now "Taly was keeping us from catching his partners this whole time and Taly was the prized deepwold the scumteam protected"

I was a heavy hand in both TA and Dunn's elimination and I was an active pusher for a Slitter/Infinity/Ydra solve for part of the Pink PT.

At not point did I have some sort heel-turn process of "pRoTeCT mY dCuMreAd" because I was either focused on other players or misread them.

You don't give any room in a good faith mentality toward my progression in this game at all. You're weakly attaching whatever point you can to justify a wrong scumread that came out of thin air.

[Taly]

Peta, when I die, please don't ignore my 1v1 with Ggy

[Taly]

And peta, please correct me if I'm overstepping my bounds here

But I don't think Gamma-scum is so apt to make a moralistic viewpoint out of your interaction with HQ. If he were scum wanting to invalidate a solid universal townread of you, he had so many more arguments.

I'm not at all weighing in on the personal.aspects.

I just think Gemerald being uninformed of HQ is a likelier mentality for his defense than just hedging on an otherwise doomed and universally scumread partner.

I could be wrong, it is valid for you to dismiss my entire thought process on this towncase on Gamma more thab anything, but this is what i think.

[Taly]

And I'm not even talking about the scenario at which a 2v2 happened over an intense level of AtE

I'm meaning his read progression.

[Taly]

I just want to die at this point.

VOTE: Yay

I've never gone this hard into a game with such dissatisfying conclusion of my story arc.

Kill me. End my misery.

Nobody can ever accuse me of throwing.

[Taly]

Don't be. I don't have a day vig to kill Ggy with.

[Taly]

I can because I've done that before.

[Taly]

Not in a complete game and I was a traitor

But I've certainly debated playing that way as scum in a normal.

[Taly]

I believe it kill ggy in 3/4p elo ty

[Taly]

Kill me and then ggy

[Taly]

The bloodtunnel has activated murderkilldestroy

[Taly]

dance game dance game dance game

blood game blood game blood game

[Taly]

Why did I have to ask your permission to cross Fire or ask you to explain your scumread of Skitter in depth?

Isn't it more logical for you to explain why I'm wrong and elaborate rather than letting me misfire or perhaps, if you thought I was S/S, challenge me on this at the time?

No you holding me to a standard of having good be correct about Skiiter without actually taking the initiative to combat them or me yourself reads like a partner interaction.

[Taly]

Why didn't you tell Ulya that Fire was a bad cross too?

For someone who was dead set Skitter was confscum, your approach hardly aligns with that mentality.

[Taly]

It's valid for you to say I was trying to get a partner to cross with me

What I don't think is towny about your stance here is because I don't even remember you resisting this. If you had, it was too fragile for me to recall.

And that's inconsistent with your scumread on Skitter and your after-the-fact expectation that I should've allowed you to gatekeep my vote.

[Taly]

I get it 100% guys. Thanks for considering my thoughts

[Taly]

was going to deep dive for patterns before i remembered that scum PTs exist

lolme

relaxing my mind by immersing myself in old games i was not a part of



i wonder what skitter was thinking putting me up for the pink room nomination given she was pretty well in my blind spot prior to that. what a blunder.

somewhat suspect the scum pt for this game is never seeing the light of day though

Oh wait I can actually answer this. Noting this post.

[Taly]

I don't remember what it was off the top of my head because it was too weak of a reason to convince me you were scum at all so-

[Taly]

I mean I won't lie I wanted half of the Blue PT dead when Event 4 began

Just didn't feel compelled to nom based on reasons I was given from others in skitter's case.

Pedit

Oh. Hmm. I could still give context, just say the word.

[Taly]

While I have the chance, my apologies to everyone I have misread this game... except for

Ulya

over purely comical reasons.

[Taly]

Peta/Ydra, what do I do now?

[Taly]

Peta/Ydra, what do I do now?

You guys won't have me in elo so this is your only chance to male me spew.

[Taly]

Ewww I have to ISO dive myself? *gasp*

[Taly]

Peta would it be bad form if I dug up last night's shit because I can't imagine Ggy-town making most of his posts?

[Taly]

Peta would it be bad form if I dug up last night's shit because I can't imagine Ggy-town making most of his posts?

your imagination is more depressing than I thought

I legit had a dream while waiting that Toog flipped

Edgy

Werewolf Lord

while we were waiting for the Shootin' Blind event to end so maybe think about some Grand Idea Mafia shenaigans sometime to help you out with that

I also have some legitimate advice for you in this situation or others like it in the future, but I think it borders a bit on being mean so if you'd rather not hear it I'm perfectly fine keeping it to myself to not tilt you.

Oh darling, just you wait

[Taly]

Oh darling, just you wait

i mean

are you actually enjoying the interactions we're having at this point? If you are then keep on keeping on but otherwise I feel like we can drop the cheekiness and the emojis.

I'm just tired of the game at this point. no offense meant to Morning Tweet b/c I think the flavor and theme are amazing but everyone except Ydrasse and me feels like they're incensed and bitter in various different ways.
maybe incensed isn't the right word for it but some feeling of combining energized and outraged.

Man

You don't know the kind of powers I have.

[Taly]

i dont think anyone thinks youre scum except maybe gooey :<

Not saying this as some sort of voodoo reverse psychology bullshit to save my ass (because I know it won't work)

I just don't know how this is anything but "Taly has more WIFOM and less reason to clear than Ydra" VS "Taly is just the final scum"

And that's why I can't believe Ggy actually believes I'm scum because he doesn't feel regret or a reason to rethink here.

that's fine for you to think

I'm not going to get past your play in regards to the pink PT and how you prevented a Saber nomination that scum was pushing for

, and that you never took me or anyone else seriously enough to follow through on the skitter suspicions you said you had during the InfinityvsPeta event that weren't brought up again when skitter or Fire was in actual danger from the crossing event.

I just can't get past this no matter how I try to read

Ggy

as uninformed.

He didn't just say

"

Taly

your posts after the PT don't align with your viiews of what was implied in the PT"

or even frame that into a question.

He

accused

me of gatekeeping

Saber's

nomination. He didn't say I fencesat. He didn't say I waffled conveniently after the PTs. He didn't verify anything.

He can only make this statement if he had a real-time recount of what was happening in the PT as it went on.

I'm just curious how that blossoming partnership came to be. The only thing you had in common was wanting Ydrasse out.

I'm curious why your stance in the PT was to sheep either me or

Skitter

, despite our increasingly differing viewpoints.

Who in the pink room wanted Cakez or saber
Atp the best theory I can reconcile is that scum are basically all low-impact

I was the only person who actively campaigned for

Cakez

,

Ulya

made the vote later in the phase but

peta[/n] had seniority by this point if I remember correctly.

Most of everyone was OK with a

Saber

nom,

Skitter

personally campaigning for it. But I wanted to sort

Saber

directly this phase.

Outside of

Skitter's

posts, this was all the information he would have in regard to the level of division in the PT, and it wasn't clearly stated how

Saber

failed to be nom'd outside of just a default vote.

And this happened because our PT ended with a default nomination with

SKITTER/TOOG

voting

PETA

.

So why is he both accusing me of inadvertently stopping

Saber

nom when his premise that

Skitter

wanted it was so easily invalidated?

Skitter

communicated what happened in the PT with him in their scum chat. That is the

only

rationalization I can find for it.

[Taly]

i dont think anyone thinks youre scum except maybe gooey :<

Not saying this as some sort of voodoo reverse psychology bullshit to save my ass (because I know it won't work)

I just don't know how this is anything but "Taly has more WIFOM and less reason to clear than Ydra" VS "Taly is just the final scum"

And that's why I can't believe Ggy actually believes I'm scum because he doesn't feel regret or a reason to rethink here.

that's fine for you to think

I'm not going to get past your play in regards to the pink PT and how you prevented a Saber nomination that scum was pushing for, and that you never took me or anyone else seriously enough to follow through on the skitter suspicions you said you had during the InfinityvsPeta event that weren't brought up again when skitter or Fire was in actual danger from the crossing event.

I'm not gonna paraphrase 21 pages of the pink PT that was just annoying to gi through the first time

And how did I prevent the Saber nom anymore than Ulya/Toog/Dwlee?

You can't answer that. So why does this make Pink PT the group with 2 scums?

sure is YOU CAN'T PROVE I'M SCUM over here

This is a borderline a scumclaim in itself.

When I question him on how he concluded that I was a bigger proponent to preventing

Saber

nom than any other flipped town - he

bristles

and just replies with

"yOu CaN't CaTcH mE"

Because he knows the answer and I'm trying to make him prove his guilt.

If he were town and still genuinely believed I was scum, why didn't he just justify himself here? The cheeky retort wasn't just to clap his ass in my face. He was distracting from something.

[Taly]

AtEing to the best of his ability and hoping that someone will find it town enough to vote Ydrasse over them.

the thought did cross my mind

props to you if you made this post while being informed

And then what? Ydra flips town and I as scum have to hope for a good event 10 to win?

I've lost if I'm scum, but not as town, even upon dying this phase, which i will not stop.

better than dying

please don't insult my intelligence by saying that as scum you'd give up here instead of continuing posting and hoping people would flip their reads on you, even if you thought is was very low % to work.

So

Ggy's

only premise so far on why he keeps me as scum is because I'm AtE'ing.

Sure, this is pretty valid assertion that I'm scum.

But then he turns it against me, and say that my objective reasons for being scum are wrong by punitively AtE'ing himself, believing that I'm talking down to him when I'm providing a justification for my feelings, why he SHOULD reconsider me, and that I still have no intention to gain anything from this.

But he has to turn against me at this point.

He's scum, and he can't turn back from his stance naturally.

This is a very manipulative post from him and I don't ever use that word lightly in mafia.

every time gamma emerald posts he looks like he's struggling to come up with excuses and every time gammagooey posts he looks like someone who is somehow not aware that taly will flip town

I could still be wrong about Taly being scum, I just still think they make much more sense as scum than anyone else in the game. Your idea of the scumteam seems to be that they went all-out in bussing Gemerald at the start, let him bus basically everyone but skitter back immediately and eventually bussing Fire at the end of the crossing. My thoughts on Gemerald are that a LOT of his pushes seem genuine, and I think he's played as I think a lot of townies do - fairly bullheaded with a focus on how people are reacting to his specific opinions and expecting people to either follow him or specifically convince

him

, not necessarily the game as a whole, that their opinions are correct and that he, Gemerald, should follow them.

Taly on the other hand has dumped tons and tons of thoughts into the thread about potential scum, complained about previous choices of "why didn't I put Saber in the duel!" but pushed for people to go with consensus reads while nudging those reads away from scum (aside from Dunn who wasn't participating enough in the game to be worth defending long-term), which fits WAY more in terms of what I expect scum to try to do to get townies eliminated without coming under fire for it.

Granted, I can't attribute all of that to strictly town/scum because there are substantial playstyle differences between the two. But I have a pretty solid archetype of "aggressive townie with a slightly self-centered game-view" in my head from previous games and I think GE fits that to a tee.

p-edit: can ya'll chill
it's still a game even when people you think people are being jerks or unfair by doing something and you can disagree with people diplomatically instead of doing out of game callouts and making the game worse

[Taly]

every time gamma emerald posts he looks like he's struggling to come up with excuses and every time gammagooey posts he looks like someone who is somehow not aware that taly will flip town

I could still be wrong about Taly being scum, I just still think they make much more sense as scum than anyone else in the game. Your idea of the scumteam seems to be that they went all-out in bussing Gemerald at the start, let him bus basically everyone but skitter back immediately and eventually bussing Fire at the end of the crossing. My thoughts on Gemerald are that a LOT of his pushes seem genuine, and I think he's played as I think a lot of townies do - fairly bullheaded with a focus on how people are reacting to his specific opinions and expecting people to either follow him or specifically convince

him

, not necessarily the game as a whole, that their opinions are correct and that he, Gemerald, should follow them.

Taly on the other hand has dumped tons and tons of thoughts into the thread about potential scum, complained about previous choices of "why didn't I put Saber in the duel!" but pushed for people to go with consensus reads while nudging those reads away from scum (aside from Dunn who wasn't participating enough in the game to be worth defending long-term), which fits WAY more in terms of what I expect scum to try to do to get townies eliminated without coming under fire for it.

Granted, I can't attribute all of that to strictly town/scum because there are substantial playstyle differences between the two. But I have a pretty solid archetype of "aggressive townie with a slightly self-centered game-view" in my head from previous games and I think GE fits that to a tee.

p-edit: can ya'll chill
it's still a game even when people you think people are being jerks or unfair by doing something and you can disagree with people diplomatically instead of doing out of game callouts and making the game worse

He never really explains how I nudged for

"consensus"[/b] to my benefit outside of the 2-seconds I voted

Fire

to cross with

Ulya

.

And honestly, if I did? How does outweigh the fact that I'm a huge reason we even had a townbloc in the first place? His premise doesn't necessarily align with a scum agenda of wanting to work with other players.

He even states this outright.

So why is he still gungho that I'm scum and he's already succeeded in eliminating me?

Backtracking proves his guilt.

[Taly]

But I know exactly one thing I've purposely withheld about the Pink PT from this point.

This was the run-down of my trajectory in the Pink PT

Everyone but Gemerald and Gypyx were my PoE and I strongly believed at the time that Pink PT being all town was an actual possibility because it was based around wagonomics than any clear randomization.

I also townread

Toog

strongly because I didn't see any scenario where scum wanted S/S.

Skitter

vehemently wanted

Peta

.

Infinity

was deadset on

Saber

./

I weakly pushed for Cakez nom. I even considered

And then Dwlee, who I townread more than anyone in that PT, told me that they believed there were 2 or even all 3 scum in the PT, and Skitter actively opposed this idea more than anyone else.

Dwlee also confided in the PT that they believed

Ydrasse

was the best choice for Blue Team Scum.

This got my wheels spinning and my first instinct was to check

Infinity/Skitter/Ydrasse

because I felt that if

Skitter

within her intro posts could point out that

Infinity

was so clearly out of their element early-game and not push it then perhaps

Dwlee

bagged at least 1 or both as scum since the stance was so unnatural.

Ydrasse

felt like scum because she was the vote that gave

Toog

wagon legs imo, and I figured they were just most likely scum flipping the script in the moment. So my entire focus was reading

Ydrasse

and seeing where the thread went with a

Ydrasse

nom.

And then both Skitter/Infinity - namely Skitter, spent over 10+ pages of our PT trying to dissuade me of a Ydrasse nom over Peta (in Skitter's view) or Saber (IN INFINITY's VIEW)

And that made me confbias a Ydrasse/Infinity/Skitter S/S/T or S/S/S real hard. Because I felt they dismissed my logic so strongly when Dwlee had already brought up the idea. So why were they defensive so much?

Skitter/Infinity also hardly interacted with Dwlee's continued suspicion and that dismissal really tilted me.

So I give

Infinity/Skitter

a very stern line.

I told them that I'm taking

Saber

AND

PETA

OFF the table for potential nominations because I don't trust them.

Almost nobody moves their vote with any strong conclusion after this division. Because

Skitter/Infinity

and

Dwlee/I

could not get past this issue.

And then

Toog/Ulya

both get their panties in a twist over this and

Toog

votes

Peta

just to have some type of nomination.

And guess what?

Infinity

gets nom'd in the Blue Team.

[Taly]

So yeah.

Gammagooey

is correct. I did in-fact play a key role in preventing a

Saber

nom in the Pink PT.

But I also halted a

Peta

nom, which is why I didn't vote there either.

And

Infinity

drove the

Saber

vote.

Not

Skitter

.

Guess who all the scumkills have been so far?

Pooky --> Infinity --> Dwlee...

and now

Taly

?

Oh wow, that's interesting. All 4 of us had something in common.

We scumread

Dunn

in Events 1/2.

Gammagooey's

whole argument on not rethinking me resides in a preemptive understanding of how I actually played in the Pink PT, and yet he's twisting it because it's SO EASY to look at his posts and think

"Wow,

Taly

actually was protecting his partner"

But my pink PT progression hardly had anything to do with

Saber

.

I was just 2v2ing with

Dwlee/Taly V Skitter/Infinity

because I mindmelded with

Dwlee

and wanted an

Ydrasse

flip.

[Taly]

My case?

Gammagooey

is a walking scumclaim.

[Taly]

I've never been so certain that someone was scum in elo before.

[Taly]

And if you guys still think my in-the-moment aggressive personality is more likely scum-driven here?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p7493970

This was the only game I made elo and caught scum. Read page 66 and after, it's not long.

This is old meta, so I'm very tonally different, but I'm behaviorally very similar.

I lost unfortunately because despite everybody in the Dead PT seeing my play, I couldn't convince a towny that already preemptive reasons to suspect me as scum over

ABR

.

And that's exactly how I feel the gamestate is here now.

I'm dying this game. I got nothing else.

[Taly]

covid booster is kicking my ass

i have to unplug

[Taly]

I'm dead

Gammagooey

, no use countering me at this point, 'cause the game will keep moving when I'm gone.

And yes, I feel fully absolved post-game if this is the .000000000000000000000000001% chance I'm wrong.

[Taly]

haha you're honestly so refreshing to play with Ggy

I love it when people read me all hot blooded and are like

"begone thot"

Anyway going to bed for real. Took medicine and am drinking fluids.

[Taly]

yay tw recognizes that I'm carrying this game in NY back

Ok done stroking my ego uh

I made my case last page on GGY scum. IE the pink and blue team were private PTs and I'm the last living member from Pink team.

And part if Ggy's assertion that in scum hibges on knowing something I actually dud despite it not being mentioned in the game otherwise.

[Taly]

I'm unfortunately flipping no matter how this goes so

[Taly]

Also covid booster is not so fun c th jmmgdjk

[Taly]

Saber-scum put a fucking dangerous associative around my neck by consistently TMI ing me as town in several early game posts when I was arguably a UTR and didn't need help with that

Judging from messages I remembered earlier, she was OK with me getting nomd in the Blue Team tho?

I was one of 3 people who voted Dunn-scum to be in the duel where hedied. The votes were Me, Dwlee, and Infinitt in this order

I'm the only living one from this trio on his wagon ironically.

Literally fought skitter most of the Pink PT and now since those interactions aren't clear it's the main point on why I'm obvscum...

[Taly]

Ggy deserves the lim

[Taly]

Oh darling, just you wait

i mean

are you actually enjoying the interactions we're having at this point? If you are then keep on keeping on but otherwise I feel like we can drop the cheekiness and the emojis.

I'm just tired of the game at this point. no offense meant to Morning Tweet b/c I think the flavor and theme are amazing but everyone except Ydrasse and me feels like they're incensed and bitter in various different ways.
maybe incensed isn't the right word for it but some feeling of combining energized and outraged.

i'm doing fine tbh

Yeah exactly he knows how I'm so bad for town WIM that he just assumes so to posit himself before I case him

[Taly]

Wow I actually am a pretty aggressive player

[Taly]

kill me and then ggy

May thy blood drench the floors of

Morning Tweet's

theatre

[Taly]

*foaming, falls and slaps limbs on the ground*

[Taly]

I'm a good toucan who is quiet and docile

[Taly]

I stand by my flip being unjustified and I'm only accepting it because I townread Ydra and don't want to hurt Peta's method of solving with confidence in elo by imposing my desires on him. I'm mad to realize that vying for safety hurts my credibility but if a townflip is what absolved my slot, I'm not fighting against it anymore.

[Taly]

Ehh true

I still don't quite follow what makes you clear Ydra, though, Peta

I believe you're both town and my solve is correct, but for the game's sake and TW as a replacement, you might want to towncase her.

[Taly]

Wait what am I saying you have a point

Ydra-scum doesn't try to burn unwnd-town the stake for dancing around suspicion on her only to jump on Toog-toen in the duel

And Ydra/Ggy cannot possibly be S/S

So Ydra-town was just correct about unwnd and that fizzled because it was a town perspective of indignation.

[Taly]

Yeah {Peta/Taly/Ydra/TW} is the lock imo

[Taly]

I don't think TW scum enters endgame to WK a doomed slot especially when it's such a different perspective he's taken from me in games.

He gains effectively nothing by this stance, no?

[Taly]

That is possible dodjdjslnsbsonqbswlssjudsodkdhdlwddjsosphxhxnaoayxksusslslshsjdmsosjsjsnshd nothing else computes

[Taly]

Help

[Taly]

I've never flailed so much as town

[Taly]

*hisses and claws at peta*

[Taly]

Yes I'm well aware of ducks capabilities because we have quite the history

We have always been either T/S where the NK the other first feasible chance and have both won our respective games like this as scum

T/T where we 1v1 tunnel, and/or die a phase after the other

So I'm not a duck whisperer so I'm intrigued how this will turn out

[Taly]

It's like how Titus/I tend to die one after the other in games. (Which is technically true here)

But I have difficulty getting footing in how to read a player just like with S_S

And yet that uncertainty is mutual

Smashed into one player

[Taly]

Oh and the tunneling capacity and likelihood is at a maximum compared to other players

[Taly]

I like playing mafia with duck haha

[Taly]

hmmm

Would you say I'm a competent player peta?

[Taly]

YEAH I'M A BADASS TOWNIE

SCUM AIN'T GOT SHIT ON ME

[Taly]

Peta do you have any reaction to the fact that Skitter was gunning for you to be nom'd and not Saber?

[Taly]

Or read my case on Ggy?

[Taly]

Tw why am I town?

[Taly]

Why are you still casing a dead toucan?

[Taly]

Find a new script to read off of

Ggy

[Taly]

I am less sure of Ydrasse-town (and I'm the one who put up Ydrasse/Taly as the possible elims for today if you're wondering, after being elected ruler in the Heaven PT) but do think a few of his points in there about Ydrasse seem valid.

Lmfao keeping Ydra option open, huh?

[Taly]

It's too easy to poke holes in your post I can't anymore

[Taly]

Ok I'll stop being an ass and read TW so I can be more fair...

[Taly]

Tw why am I town?

initially, your tone and broader approach here doesn't seem to align with your scumgame. the best examples that leap into my mind are dated but the basis for my understanding of your scum meta goes back to pypx/y, echo bay grits seo etc. and i still think there are tenets i'm right on. your case on ggooey doesn't feel like it needs to be right, it feels like it needs to be heard. i don't read individual points there and go "mm taly has a point" i read individual points there and go "mm taly believes this".

the more i'm looking back over this phase too, the more i'm like. you have exactly one wincon here. that's getting an ydrasse elim across the line today and then setting up something tomorrow. i actually genuinely think that you're fine with going down here and for last scum taly, that's not a viable path to endgame. if you're scum your only vector to survive this phase is either hard pushing ydrasse into probably ggooey tomorrow, or convincing me to push ydrasse. i think you're listening to peta's criticism of your read on me too well to be working this angle. i think scum-you is perfectly capable of SOUNDING like he's being the big hero and laying his life on the line while actually working towards something else and tbh what you're doing here looks fairly transparent.

i feel really fucking weird about having a gut feeling that you're town but i also don't feel wrong.

now that i've waffled about how good a pocket i would be for scum taly here i still don't get why anyone is townreading ydrasse?

This was a much more nuanced answer than I was expecting. Thanks

[Taly]

Ducky, I think a key interaction about Ydra/Ggy slot is looking at Ydra tilting at Unwnd Event 2

Slot was initially Galron, then Unwnd, and now Gammagooey.

Forgot what pages it is uh

[Taly]

106-109 is Ydra V Unwnd

[Taly]

Also am I actually being an ass to Ggy? Definitely not intended to bother you in any way so far

I have a tendency to harp when I confbias But that doesn't weaken the integrity of my read imo

I'll give you distance if you feel it is best

[Taly]

Ggy

, for funsies, how do you interpret this exchange?

skitter

, who should

unwnd

duel with?

skitter

, who should

unwnd

duel with?

Dwlee

Omg I wanted to sheep your answer so badly but

Dwlee

feels raw tonight.

I dont see it

Aww.

Hmmm. I don't know how to read Cakez tbh. Which is as fencesitty as it sounds.

Any other names?

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I took his last post of "but actually" as a "will get to you

Taly

ASAP."

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn

, do something.

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I took his last post of "but actually" as a "will get to you

Taly

ASAP."

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn

, do something.

Ah ok - was willing for a read/ur thoughts on the unwnd/ydra thing. Would u mind sharing that and/or requoting if i missed it
(Tomorrow is fine tho, night!)


And a dunn/unwnd duel would be cool

[Taly]

It just dawned on me that I've only ever played with

Ydra/Cakez

where I incorrectly townread both of them as scum before this

So the whole

"how do I read them / I suspect"

was an instinctual response to doubting my perception of their play.

Huh. So that's how I misread people this game.

And

Infinity

was through me seeing resistance for someone I suspected

(Ydra)

, someone I questioned the interactions with

(skitter)

, and someone I townread gave voice to my suspicions of this slot

(Dwlee)

Ig my cognitive process isn't that much of a mystery.

[Taly]

Sigh, why so I realize shit like this when I'm either NKed already, dying, or in elo.

[Taly]

I was energized by the scumflip and then the Pink Team was birthed.

I concede.

Cakez: 1
Ydra: 1
Taly: 0

Round 1 complete.

Underrated post methinks

[Taly]

Nobody else can successfully champion my defense.

Peta, I do think you should towncase Ydra if you feel strongly enough to clear her over meir explain your POV better.

[Taly]

Nobody else can successfully champion my defense.

But myself I mean. Ydra won't sacrifice herself. Peta has some reason why he wants me flipped here too. Gooey is just scum.

[Taly]

Anyone who resists my elimination for any reason is under scrutiny in my eyes.

[Taly]

VOTE: Yay
I feel like it probably is gooey here so I'd rather bring forward the person who already feels that way

don't love that

Perfect illustration of this gamestate

[Taly]

I'm kind of annoyed at the town between those 3 but I don't hold it against them.

[Taly]

See?

Peta

realizes that I have a fucking third eye and sees shit none of you commoners can

[Taly]

Wow I actually am a pretty aggressive player

[Taly]

I'm honestly posting for comical relief purposes at this point.

[Taly]

*hisses and claws at peta again*

[Taly]

What are you thinking or concluding?

[Taly]

tactically, shit makes no sense for skitter to have flipped a vote on galron on day 1. none. totally out of character.

but, of course, the chair wasn't a regular execution. scum probably knew it was a kingmaker. they might not have wanted town in that spot.

but why the scum pile-on on gamma emerald then

Perhaps

Galron

wasn't a town competitor wagon-wise.

I mean,

skitter

bussed in this context.

And scum may have voted for a

Gemerald

kingmake to look unaligned with a scum alternative.

Saber

was in favor for voting who we believed was scum for Event 1.

It makes sense to think some scum wanted to distance with

Galron

by not even pushing him, while others wanted the possibility of one of their own to make the decisions.

This is actually a pretty competent scumteam all considered.

[Taly]

yay you guys are thinking of the things I thought of when this event started

[Taly]

also i got the sense that gammagooey doesn't actually give a shit about anything i'm posting and isn't really reading it to evaluate it


would be really funny if there was a reason for not caring

I can think of a great one!

[Taly]

like honestly

say whatever shit you want about me and I can deal with it

just don't try to convince ydrasse to sacrifice herself to spite theoretical-scum me and I'll be fine with it

WHERE DO I FIT IN THIS PICTURE? CONFSCUM?

WAS I GUILTIED?

[Taly]

I've never been happier to die in a mafia game.

[Taly]

And this is why scum shouldn't make me a late game mislim.

[Taly]

I love how

TW

has a nuanced approach to reading me and my approach is like

"ducky has to bring the perfect amount of 'we are in a nightmare' energy to be town"

[Taly]

saber's tilt is nai but her content is just kinda ~lacking~ tbh

Harley is scum

We fucked up

Saber

should've been nominated.

…

Why is Harley scum

Still the funniest group of sequential posts in this game.

The Pinky Team is cursed.

All of us are going to be fucking dead and over half of the Blue Team is alive.

[Taly]

Oh shit and except for

Toog/Skitter

we all die at different timepoints.

[Taly]

Yeah I'm sorry you're getting the brunt of the AtE this game

Peta

and I say this as someone who has contributed

Just ignore

Ggy

[Taly]

VOTE: NAY

this is my symbolic protest vote

Do you TRY to be a douchebag to everyone you think is scum?

Literally the ONLY THING I've asked for is to make sure Taly dies today, and if I am scum then both ydrasse and taly would have to be town

If Taly lives through this game it's going to be the most disappointing fucking game of the year for everyone involved except him

Yeah no you deserve to die after me. I can't imagine this being town ever.

[Taly]

Where did this narrative that I'm an absolute nightmare for the game's WIM came from? It's such a stark contrast from me being a huge game influence and thread health you characterized me in almost every post you made about me until the Heaven PT.

[Taly]

Peta

, I respect the fact that we have a very hot/cold dynamic this game because it feels so raw.

[Taly]

taly i want to describe this for you, since you're the only one who cannot see it


in the blue room unwnd posted a read list for each room

typical stuff, just listing everyone's name

except

for the pink room, under the category section "null void"

he posts skitter (I guess)

he adds the parenthetical to exactly one person


i'm howling

I AM WEAK LOL

[Taly]

Ok, i vote no on this,

Gammagooey

.

If you want to talk about

Peta

and his interactions this game then take it up with him post game. Otherwise, I'm assuming this is AtE directed at him voting to save me.

I don't think it's fair for you to take his vote in any context other than a game one nor do I think it's healthy for you to blame him for 3 rep outs. Those rep outs were solely on the people who rep'ed out and we should never make assumptions like this in or out if the game because it is not our business.

And I feel it's a misrepresentation to tell him that nobody in the PT was willing to speak game with you because I certainly was and actually did. I've even made posts directed to you THIS EVENT that wasn't solely trying to disdredit your POV and wanted to dissect your thought process more and you've yet to interact with it or any interpretation of my gameplay that has been in good faith.

[Taly]

Like no I'm weary of

Peta

being the pin cushion for emotional outbursts this game, leave the man alone. I don't remember a post where he's even insulted someone and he has justified why he feels his approach to these situations is sound.

If you don't agree with it, don't conflate it with his game decisions because that's not how he's operating here.

[Taly]

If you feel wrongly ignored or put down then you should air what can be done about it so we can help or you take a break from the thread.

[Taly]

And I feel it's a misrepresentation to tell him that nobody in the PT was willing to speak game with you because I certainly was and actually did. I've even made posts directed to you THIS EVENT that wasn't solely trying to disdredit your POV and wanted to dissect your thought process more and you've yet to interact with it or any interpretation of my gameplay that has been in good faith.

In Heaven PT, We talked about why you said you weren't scum, and briefly discussed interactions with Dunn you thought might make me reconsider my read on you like pushing for Dunn/Cakez and why Dunn wasn't 'concreteted in uselessness' as I mentioned, and you asked Gemerald why he wanted you to be the ruler. I guess you also mentioned that you didn't trust Gemerald's perception day 1? Basically all of it I just processed as "Taly defending himself". I guess I should have either gone into more detail on why I thought you could be potential scum then when you mentioned that you didn't see evidence contradicted TA/Cakez scum or gone over more people than just you, but I did mention multiple times that yeah I did think TA is going to flip scum no matter what and I did think Cakez had a strong chance of being scum.

Yeah, I didn't trust

Gemerald's

viewpoint in D1 because I voted them for the chair under the idea that they were scum who would likely die from the event.

And I don't understand why you process my Heaven PT play as a defense - do you still think so?

I did not vie for the ruler position aggressively even after

Gamma

vouched for me.

For today, I could have more thoroughly responded to a few things (I'll go over the Pink PT thoughts in a minute, I remember you mentioning that in particular), but honestly how and why are you expecting me to go through and respond to all of your posts when you've also flooded the thread and have nearly THREE HUNDRED posts this event? Literally more than twice the number I have THE ENTIRE GAME SO FAR? I've even asked you a couple of things that would up getting ignored on your end too like why you didn't follow through on your Cakez read on the crossing (though I did forget about it and then feel like an idiot when I realized you were talking about potentially going over it later as opposed to thinking you were conflating it with another thing being talked about at the time).

Requote the posts I missed?

Cakez

was someone I had difficulty reading because I couldn't tell the difference between them TMI'ing a read on me over actively solving popular slots, I couldn't tell whether

Cakez

was genuinely trying to mislim

Ulya

or had a tell on her because he 1v1/tunneled with her, and I didn't like

Cakez's

replies to either me in Event 4 or

Peta

in Event 2.

I figured the townreads on him were likelier misled and so I resisted his crossing and since I believed

{Fire/Toog/Gypyx}

contained 1 scum maximum, I felt that he was the deepest wolf.

I'd also like to know why you seemed to stop mentioning/pushing your previous scum read on skitter for the crossing event.
And for what, the 4th time I've said this to different people? If you want me to respond to one of your posts, @me with what you want me to respond to so I don't have to dig through literally hundreds of posts to find it. Don't make a train of shitposts about my play and then expect me to find exactly what you want an actual response to in the middle of it instead of me shrugging it off as "ok Taly's spamposting about me being scum again". I feel like that at least is a reasonable ask.

Noted. 7136 was a question directed to you.

For the Pink PT, I thought you were likely pretty influential there for a couple of reasons. First, you were pretty clearly the one of, if not the most active player(s) in the game thread before it split into PTs. That alone meant that you were likely to be a major part of the conversation there and your reads and opinions that you put forward there would get at least seriously discussed, unlike say Toog who I thought was likely to post like 4 times in there and for other people to likely gloss over his reads. Second, basically everyone at least commented about the Pink PT, even if they didn't go into detail, and all of them seemed to either think Saber was scum OR have a positive opinion of you - infinity+skitter both said they wanted saber, and you initially said that skitter campaigned for it (and I quoted this before), dwlee talked about how you and him pocketed each other in there, you said that Toog was willing to sheep either of skitter or you, and that only leaves Ulya as *not enamored with Taly but also didn't want Saber lynched*, and she commented on how she wanted Cakez and could have had it if you had joined her on that (and that you could have had any wagon you wanted that had an existing vote):

I was the only person who actively campaigned for Cakez, Ulya made the vote later in the phase but peta[/n] had seniority by this point if I remember correctly.

? the vote that ended up being seniority vote for petapan was placed by toogeloo sometime after i voted for sircakez, when i voted sircakez you were voting ydrasse but shortly thereafter unvoted, had you actually wanted sircakez and voted there at this time sircakez would have been the nomination,

so

?

Yeah also i dont remember taly wanting cakez, he was pushing ydra a whole lot

Because I didn't know

Cakez

had any traction until

Ulya's

vote.

And by that point, I had already aligned with

Dwlee's

POV of the game more and wanted to consolidate there.

Also I misinterpreted what seniority meant.

Thought

Ydra

was still going to be the nom.

you were one of the two votes on ydrasse so moving to any other wagon with an existing vote would have always given that wagon the edge

If you had wanted Saber, or even been ambivalent on Saber, I think it's pretty clear from that it could have happened just from Skitter+Infinity+Toog, since Toog was willing to sheep either you or skitter from your post about him.

My interpretation of this post from you was that skitter was actively pushing for Saber to be put up, and that you in particular requested that Saber not be the nomination for that event. Apparently infinity was actually pushing it harder than skitter, but I thought skitter was pushing it hardest from your post, and that you stepping in to prevent a scum from bussing another was very likely to come from you as a skitter/saber scumbuddy.

Who in the pink room wanted Cakez or saber
Atp the best theory I can reconcile is that scum are basically all low-impact

I was the only person who actively campaigned for

Cakez

,

Ulya

made the vote later in the phase but

peta[/n] had seniority by this point if I remember correctly.

Most of everyone was OK with a

Saber

nom,

Skitter

personally campaigning for it. But I wanted to sort

Saber

directly this phase.

No, I disagree with both the assertion that the Pink PT had a net positive view of me or the idea that everyone in the PT was absolutely set on

Saber

-scum outside of

Infinity

who voteparked throughout the PT.

Skitter

entered the Pink PT with THIS being her hierarchy of least wanting to vote to MOST.

Gamma

-->

Cakez

-->

Ydrasse

-->

Gypyx

-->

Saber

-->

peta

-->

UNWND

And what did she do with this?

She contested my

Ydrasse

-case, said she wouldn't vote

Cakez

despite AGREEING that I believed

Cakez/unwnd

was T/S,

and she voted Peta mid-way into the PT and didn't move her vote at all.

It reads perfectly like she TMI'd you and

Saber

.

[Taly]

Skitter

mid-way in the PT was like

"becoming more sus of

taly

lululululu"

and even

Infinity

was like

"nah,

taly

still towny"

and

Skitter

only stopped vaguely shading me later after the Pink PT when I refrained from actively pressuring or sus'ing her.

[Taly]

Like, the idea that

skitter

has just bussed this game rings true on the surface but that's not quite what her Event 1 or Event 4 play could've been motivated by.

i want to type a response to that that is diplomatic and respectful, but i don't think i can. i am livid. you have been absurdly insulting to me just now and it is incredibly disappointing. anything i want to say right now is incredibly harsh, so i'll just step away for now.

*hugs*

if you want to redirect your attention to game, reading the last paragraph of my latest reply and these votes cold help.

[Taly]

posts could help*

[Taly]

Yeah I'm sorry you're getting the brunt of the AtE this game

Peta

and I say this as someone who has contributed

Just ignore

Ggy

i mean even with you i was mostly just bewildered/frustrated because like, i wanted you to be able to talk and you were just weird about it

Peta

, I respect the fact that we have a very hot/cold dynamic this game because it feels so raw.

it's certainly been a ride

sorry if i inadvertently came off as brusque/dismissive toward you, it's...

we have different ways of thinking and there was a

lot

of evidence to go through, i was hung up on some not so good reasons. which often happens. but i did, eventually, go back and reread and check everything. and i think just by being able to have some conversation we worked things out? theres always the stress of endgames because people are going to have differing perspectives they feel strongly about but i think weve been working okay

For greater context on my mind at the time:

I'm not frustrated anymore, I am sad and struggling to regulate it.

This was my last post as a living slot this game. The second I accepted that I was going to be eliminated I started to thinking more like this again a few posts later:

Peta, what do you think is more likely?

Gamma-scum wanted to kill off potential mislim Galron and scum stopped this to protect themselves. It could be inferred that Galron was a framing, if Gamma is scum here, but why wasn't that a point of discussion in the duel?

Or

Gamma-town was right in the ballpark of susaing a lot of slots that scum both wanted to kingmake, but they felt a sabotage would be the most effective way at protecting them?

So truly

Peta

, I feel I was largely the source of our conflict because I couldn't reconcile my ego and the gamestate. And I am sorry for overstepping your boundaries here.

[Taly]

No, I disagree with both the assertion that the Pink PT had a net positive view of me or the idea that everyone in the PT was absolutely set on Saber-scum outside of Infinity who voteparked throughout the PT.

Skitter entered the Pink PT with THIS being her hierarchy of least wanting to vote to MOST.
Gamma --> Cakez --> Ydrasse --> Gypyx --> Saber --> peta --> UNWND

And what did she do with this?

She contested my Ydrasse-case, said she wouldn't vote Cakez despite AGREEING that I believed Cakez/unwnd was T/S, and she voted Peta mid-way into the PT and didn't move her vote at all.

It reads perfectly like she TMI'd you and Saber.

yeah uh wow lmao

i know she was putting her preference at me and those two but i didn't know it was THAT order

yeah haha, i should probably have led this event phase with this argument lmao

[Taly]

Wait when did I say

Skitter

campaigned for

Saber

?

[Taly]

Oh yeah

Skitter

had more content on a

Saber

nom than

Infinity

but she never voted the there and stuck to

peta

Then at the last second

Infinity

voted

Gmagooey

when

Ulya

was on there

But

Ulya

unvoted and jumps on

Gypyx

at the literal last minute

And I was pretty much MIA at this point because I was tired of that shit

So that's how Pink PT concluded definitively and I'm reminded how embarrassing my play was there

[Taly]

I do understand you better

Ggy

but that doesn't change my case on your accusation being in congruent to what you would otherwise know.

But yeah I get you.

[Taly]

I never townread

Hq

. I'm not sure what implied that.

Actually I did say I did but that was sarcasm and she bought it.

I mainly just avoided expressing a scumread to avoid AtE.

I've seen

Hq

get emotional like this as scum before and I just avoided engagement as much as possible.

[Taly]

Yeah for true transparency I scumread

HQ

and just didn't pursue it directly to minimize the events on a certain page as much as possible.

[Taly]

I do understand you better

Ggy

but that doesn't change my case on your accusation being in congruent to what you would otherwise know.

But yeah I get you.

Obv I don't expect you to change your mind completely, but can you give like a 1-2 sentence summary of what you think the leap of logic is that I made that I couldn't have made as town? As far as I can tell it's just
"But I wanted to sort Saber directly this phase." (from you) -> "

I think you prevented the Saber nom

" (from me). The wrong assumption by me that skitter was pushing harder on Saber than any of her other reads and the mention of Toog being willing to sheep either you or skitter also pushed me harder in that direction, but I don't see why you'd think it's impossible to come from town, even if you think it's more likely to come from scum.

Nope. You can't backtrack this.

I'm not going to get past your play in regards to the pink PT and how you prevented a Saber nomination that scum was pushing for

Your post here didn't convey that you

"you thought"

it was framed as a strongly believed assumption.

And yes, I still find it hard to believe it comes from town even with the context, because you built a case that I'm scum without actually validating your suspicion for doing so when you could've.

And let's still assume that everybody was sold on a

Saber

nom, I alone couldn't have gatekeeped that because I wasn't voting at the Pink PT's conclusion to counteract that nor was I an advocate for

Peta

, who

Skitter

was voting.

And let's also dive into the hypothetical that

Skitter

was voting

Saber

and wanted her to be nom'd, why would there be an S/S theatre for

Skitter/I

to disagree on a bus and then it never be brought up again?

Also I mentioned this a bit earlier but I'd like some details if you have time, what made you change your mind about skitter being potentially scum from the nomination event to the crossing event? The only thing I remember (there's prob at least a bit more than I don't recall atm) about your thoughts on skitter specifically was you saying something like "the lowering of skitter's WIM looks genuine", but I don't get why you thought that or why that would make skitter more likely town to you then.

Because I'm typically of the mind that being suspected lowers the WIM of a player regardless of their alignment, and if I were already wrong on

Infinity

and potentially

Ydrasse

, I might as well pause and rethink

Skitter

because they were largely an associative solve.

But I never felt strongly that

skitter

was town either - they were in my PoE of

{Fire/Toog/Gypyx}

, I was a bit weirded out that they stopped pushing me the second I gave them any room, but didn't dissect that behavior any further because I scumread

Cakez

and felt that was a stronger slot to leave and sort from there.

[Taly]

My desire to have a dialogue with

Saber

went out the window when she replaced.

So I have a hard time thinking how me wanting more time to sort

Saber

is scum-indicative in itself when I wasn't able to resolve that read.

[Taly]

I think that's about everything. Do we have a hammer or does it just end at deadline?

I'm good either way. I feel the gamestate is slowing.

[Taly]

Oh yeah this would hammer.

[Taly]

Be the vote that hammers me, ducky.

It would be symbolic.

[Taly]

WAIT

This is the second highest post count I've had in a game next to SUPP 2019!

[Taly]

Taly's Words of Wisdom for Elo

[Taly]

np, I still think it's

Ggy

but it's good to get some dialogue on that front here.

I don't know. It just comes down to how you think wolf!me plays. I'm not the mastermind strategist people say I am, as scum, I'd probably not have waited to give details about the Pink PT so I can have

"witnesses to deem me as correct."

That's a tenet of my play that got me wide-eyed when

TW

caught, and I feel that that was a genuine solve moment on my slot from him.

I'm just an articulate individual and it comes across as a

"oh shit I don't want to face this being a scum player"

.

[Taly]

I'm a townie with playstyle traits that scum players need to succeed, minus the rare-but-present inclination to martyr.

[Taly]

It's kind of funny how

Unwnd

said something to the effect that I was close to perfect and my game until Event 2 suited scum better.

I took that as a glowing compliment off of how little information I had.

[Taly]

LMFAO yup

[Taly]

Yeah, this game is the epitome of me playing at my best and my worst.

[Taly]

11 more posts until 1000 guys!

I feel like ydra allowing us to beetlejuice her should mean something but mostly its just funny atp

well thats definitely not my problem anymore

[Taly]

[Taly]

TOO LATE

GGY

, I WILL DROWN ALL OF US IN DOGS

[Taly]

down to wait til taly dog gifs up to 1k posts

YOU CRACKED IT!!

EACH NEW POST GETS A DOG GIF

[Taly]

hehehehehehehehehehehe

THIS WAS MY PLAN THE WHOLE GAME

DIE DOG GIFFING

[Taly]

cutieeeeee

[Taly]

[Taly]

lmao

ydra

[Taly]

just 3 more doggies to go before im done with this game holy shit finally

[Taly]

[Taly]

footage of me mentally after 1 1/2 months of this game

[Taly]

my goofy ass strolling up to

cakez, ulya, and infinity

in the dead thread like-