Mini Normal 2258 | Bunnies [Postgame]

[VP Baltar]

WHAT UP JABRONIS

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: datisi

Let's get this out of the way.

[VP Baltar]

It truly hurts to be betrayed by datisi like this

[VP Baltar]

I actually think maybe it is baltar

You hate me because you ain't me.

[VP Baltar]

Oh and baltar too

You think there was any scum on that speed wagon?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, do you think your ability to town read me has significantly improved because of our last game?

Frogster...I doubt I'll be filling out a survey unless your going to provide me with a $20 Starbucks gift card.

[VP Baltar]

*you're


Forgive me editing gods, I have only just awoken

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Something_Smart

don't like that first post

I'm not sure what this means. Can you explain what bugged you?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, do you think your ability to town read me has significantly improved because of our last game?

yes. it remains to be seen whether my ability to *correctly* townread you has improved, though.

Is there something specific you think made that leap for you? I ask because I don't recall ever seeing you townread me for some early game shit posting. I'll take it, but definitely unexpected.

[VP Baltar]

I think scum!tisi would probably both post later than he did and take a different tone than what he's got already.

Different tone? Also, have you played with scumtisi recently?

[VP Baltar]

which begs the question... why are you oh so casually gonna take it?

Idk if I'm casually taking it. I am town, so it's not wrong. But I'm asking you about it because seems unlike you.

What else would I do in that situation?

[VP Baltar]

I took photos of a burned out RV this morning and I'm making sourdough pancakes now for breakfast. Today is going well for me and scum should be very afraid rn.

[VP Baltar]

What else would I do in that situation?

probe further, call me scum, start screaming for my head, you know the usual.

Eh, that seems like a bad assumption for me to make off so little. Plus, I have somewhat reliable methods for determining your towniness.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: outworld

[VP Baltar]

baltar are u scum

It appears impossible for me to roll scum unfortunately.

[VP Baltar]

House, this is your first game back, right?

[VP Baltar]

House, this is your first game back, right?

Good lord, no.

Oh that's bad then

[VP Baltar]

Scratch that, Datisi was in frogsfrogs, my scumgame that matches the quote.

Got mixed up there.

So the meta you were basing this on was wrong, and you're shifting the goalposts to make it fit? I'm not following why I should buy this is a serious vote.

[VP Baltar]

Scratch that, Datisi was in frogsfrogs, my scumgame that matches the quote.

Got mixed up there.

So the meta you were basing this on was wrong, and you're shifting the goalposts to make it fit? I'm not following why I should buy this is a serious vote.

Nope. The meta of frogs confirms the statement in the quote.

No shifting, whatsoever.

Well, the quote is so vague it is essentially meaningless, thus comparisons to the quote are also meaningless.

Seems post hoc reasoning to me.

[VP Baltar]

i think outworlder is prob town, i just want to say

Why?

[VP Baltar]

I've played one game with House so far, and this is exactly how he acted as town in that one, including the fast af claim

House claimed?

[VP Baltar]

i feel like ari / dats is probably not svs

This has spice potential. You think it might be TvS?

[VP Baltar]

I'm gonna switch to VOTE: InnocentVillager because I also don't like the naked vote

UNVOTE:
VOTE: outworld

Outworld, can you explain to me why my naked vote on you didn't even warrant a reaction?

[VP Baltar]

I thought IV's vote was suspicious due to the timing of it and wanting to go along with RTP.

Nothing was so suspicious about your own vote from my perspective so I just made a note of it and figured you'd elaborate on it later.

I actually think my naked vote was kind of shittier than IV's in the sense that it could be perceived as scummy defense/chainsaw/whatever regardless of IV's alignment. I guess that's why I find it strange you didn't attack me for it when (I think) you said you had an early scum ping on me.

[VP Baltar]

221 is a post that i *really* want to call bad for reasons that would most definitely get easily disputed and ultimately do not actually mean anything

Elaborate.

[VP Baltar]

221 is a post that i *really* want to call bad for reasons that would most definitely get easily disputed and ultimately do not actually mean anything

Elaborate.

221 is bad because like
i don't think it's groundbreaking to say that not every post in a game gets a reaction from people. and the fact that he said he didn't like that iv's nakedvote doesn't mean that he automatically thinks any and all nakedvotes are bad because context do be important sometimes. this is something that we all know. but your post kinda ~ignores~ that fact and goes on the offence on "why didn't you react to this" which has the subtle implication that ower is scum for not reacting to it because he's scum breaking his own principle of "all nakedvotes are scummy" which would then obviously mean that that principle was made up in the first place therefore he's scum. BUT just ebcause he found one nakedvote scummy doesn't mean he finds all of them scummy so you're subtly and subconsciously making us think he said that when he did NOT

I'm not saying he would need to find it scummy, though I intentionally did it at a moment when I think it would be reasonable to call it that.

I do however think it would at least generate a question, especially when outworld has been going deep pretty fast in the game already.

[VP Baltar]

unless for some reason i do get into obvtown territory but i don't think i will this game.

So you think you only reach obvtown status when you post a lot? Am I understanding your thought process correctly here?

[VP Baltar]

I do however think it would at least generate a question, especially when outworld has been going deep pretty fast in the game already.

do you have any feels on outworld and/or his response?

The reason I decided to reaction test was because his posting felt a little too tryhard scumhunting to me initially . Could be within his meta (don't think I've played a game with him), but that kind of thing sticks out to me as potentially scummy early on just because scum is eager to be townread generally speaking.

[VP Baltar]

I have used the same logic to develop a read on Datisi

Coming back on this, OutER said Datisi can't keep his shit together as scum. Can you explain what this means to you more specifically? What are you looking for roughly and how has Datisi's play run counter to that this game?

Not sure I really buy the notion that Datisi can't keep his shit together *checks notes* for less than 10 pages.

[VP Baltar]

I would be down to yeet Frog just for asking people to fill that insanity out and claiming it is protown.


Happy cake day, RTP!

[VP Baltar]

House, what is your thought on IV?

[VP Baltar]

I spectated a game with frog and theyre very different tonally here ^.^

Is this game complete?

[VP Baltar]

I spectated a game with frog and theyre very different tonally here ^.^

they're different in which direction >_>

Basically this

[VP Baltar]

The first prototype of this start was used in a Mini Normal and that game ended in a town win!!

Can I get a link to this game?

[VP Baltar]

..no.

Lol OK

UNVOTE:
VOTE: frog

[VP Baltar]

i am going to be a bit selfish because i'd like to believe this might help me read this game

Spoiler: do not open if your name isn't vp baltar

The first prototype of this start was used in a Mini Normal and that game ended in a town win!!

Can I get a link to this game?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85345

Thanks.

Ok, from what I can tell, the survey didn't actually lead to catching scum. Early game, frogster had most of the scum team in the town pile on a survey he admits is pseudoscience.

I'm really not sure why you would waste everyone's time on this a second time when the first wasn't particularly successful, and I find it fairly dubious to list two seemingly unrelated events ("we took the survey" and "town won") when it is not clear at all they have any relation.

Frog, what is compelling you to run the survey again when it made you town bin the scum for much of the first game?

[VP Baltar]

Most of this information is inaccurate and I believe you're open wolfing at this point. I think one of your partners is innocentvillager.

In answer to your question, your face is compelling me to run the survey again.

You cannot possibly be this ridiculous after being on this website for 10 years.

What did I say that is inaccurate?

[VP Baltar]

I'm naturally wary of old guard.

You're probably considered old guard at this point. But why do you feel that way?

[VP Baltar]

I'm gut-scumreading everything he says at this point. I'm noticing he doesn't share a lot with others and a consistent lack of follow up to his questions.

It makes sense that he burned you once as scum if he usually doesn't make the game any easier when he's town.

Lol what are you even talking about.

I can see we are going to 1v1 today.

[VP Baltar]

Ok really frog is town theyre just pushing silly strategy which isnt scummy just ambitious :3

Yeah, maybe. I find the extremely questionable framing and not answering simple questions pretty anti-town, but he might just play like shit so idk.

[VP Baltar]

here are reads that have a 140% chance of making me look like an idiot in post-game

the closer to the left edge you are, the more i townread you
the closer to the right edge you are, the more i scumread you
and the further up you are, the bigger the headache you give me

Spoiler:

You gutting on Andres and A50? Feel like I haven't seen enough there to make any kind of call yet

[VP Baltar]

I'm naturally wary of old guard.

You're probably considered old guard at this point. But why do you feel that way?

Not really, I was only active for a couple years.

I've only recently (legitimately) returned.

I was here a while under different names evading my indefinite ban, but my play was so stilted trying to avoid being caught out that those games didn't really benefit me much.

I still feel like a rookie, in many respects.

Why are you wary of people you consider old guard though?

[VP Baltar]

In 337 you made at least one directly false statement which can be easily debunked and I'm interpreting as a lie.

This is datisi...also what lie?

[VP Baltar]

In addition, you made at least one inaccuracy or lie by concealment, and at least two logical fallacies, each of which can be clearly laid out

They can clearly be laid out, and yet here we are....

[VP Baltar]

Most of this information is inaccurate and I believe you're open wolfing at this point. I think one of your partners is innocentvillager.

In answer to your question, your face is compelling me to run the survey again.

You cannot possibly be this ridiculous after being on this website for 10 years.

What did I say that is inaccurate?

Still waiting!

Look at this question follow up game. So strong.

[VP Baltar]

Frogster is playing mostly how I remember them playing in 2185, very forceful and ambitious. As a side note, I am mad about 2185 being linked since it's been a year and I'm still angry about that game.

He definitely had a very ridiculous fight with NPOM that game it looked like. Is that what you remember?

[VP Baltar]

(most town)
Something_Smart
OutWorldER
Almost50, Andresvmb, Aristeia, Datisi, Frogsterking, House, innocentvillager, Laplacian, Reformed Toxic Player, skitter30, VP Baltar (tie)
(most mafia)

This is a wild reads list.

Tell me more about skitter, laplacian, RTP and andres please

[VP Baltar]

unique sort of aggressiveness

What does this mean more specifically?

[VP Baltar]

(most town)
Something_Smart
OutWorldER
Almost50, Andresvmb, Aristeia, Datisi, Frogsterking, House, innocentvillager, Laplacian, Reformed Toxic Player, skitter30, VP Baltar (tie)
(most mafia)

This is a wild reads list.

Tell me more about skitter, laplacian, RTP and andres please

And A50

[VP Baltar]

Oh I guess I misread

[VP Baltar]

@froggy

What did I say that is inaccurate?

[VP Baltar]

Why wouldn't the mafia just lie on your survey?

[VP Baltar]

I agree that personality tests are pseudoscience

however statistics is not and the OCEAN has statistical evidence for its constructs. OCEAN was created by an algorithm using computer science and the results were then interpreted by psychologists, it was not created the other way around where a psychologist makes up a personality test and then pretends he has evidence for his metrics.

Posts personality test, then desperately tries to justify why NO REALLY this isn't trash.

[VP Baltar]

Right now I've got
Townbloc:
Gamma, Grendel, Galron, NPOM, myself
Town:
Luca, Amelie, momrangal
Null:
Trendall
Scum:
Lunar and some combination of the last few

22 pages in after survey, townreading two scum.

This would suggest the survey is no better than random at finding scum and is useless.

[VP Baltar]

it often feels like he's talking about them and not at them, I guess?

I definitely think he is doing that here. Have you seen him as scum to know if he only does this as town?

[VP Baltar]

VD Basar

[VP Baltar]

it would invalidate their ego to admit some of their assumptions about the world are completely and dangerously wrong.

Lol oh shit.

Please protect me from myself daddy

[VP Baltar]

mischievous responding can invalidate the report.

Oh well then...

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I'm done talking about the survey now that my point has been proven.

I think frogster is in a best case scenario lying to himself about this, but I don't need to talk about it anymore to further judge where he is coming from on this.

[VP Baltar]

innocentvillager is a likely scum flip.

Would be interested to hear more specifics on your thought process here after your break.

My thought on IV: I don't hate the wagon composition on him right now necessarily. His absence this game so far is also notable. I usually find him a bit scummy early, so I am kind of reserved there, but his engagement is usually more. There isn't as much to work with here, and that is slightly concerning.

[VP Baltar]

@house I dont believe i've played with u on this acct.

It appears you were in Mini 2231 together. (was just metaing you and came across that)

[VP Baltar]

@house I dont believe i've played with u on this acct.

It appears you were in Mini 2231 together. (was just metaing you and came across that)

Link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=87397

[VP Baltar]

I don't know Laplacian's alignment, but he makes me laugh.

[VP Baltar]

Skitter...I thought you had a readlist post, but I must have been daydreaming.

What are your thoughts on A50?

Also, how are you feeling about your play so far in the game? Is this where you'd expect to be at in D1 reads right now?

[VP Baltar]

@house I dont believe i've played with u on this acct.

It appears you were in Mini 2231 together. (was just metaing you and came across that)

That game doesn't really count. I made less than half a dozen posts, and subbed out because r/l had me too busy to follow a mini that was getting large levels of content.

Makes sense why skitter wouldn't remember it then

[VP Baltar]

@house I dont believe i've played with u on this acct.

It appears you were in Mini 2231 together. (was just metaing you and came across that)

Link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=87397

ah fair enuf, i forgot he was in that one ... i believe he was scum, got overwhelmed by the pace of the game, and repped out with like 10 posts iirc

Yeah, I think it's totally acceptable you wouldn't remember. I just randomly came across it and saw you RVS vote him when I was ISOing you. Didn't look into it any further than that.

[VP Baltar]

wrt my reads so far: i feel p good with the quality/quantity of my reads at this stage of the game, yes
wrt what i think you're actually asking: i think i've been less ~involved~ and ~taking over the thread~ and ~pushing things along~ than usual, but i don't think it's particularly ai, and i'll probably pick up soon - it's been a busy couple of days irl, and my attentions have been elsewhere

but if you have anything in particular you'd like to ask me, go for it

I just felt like you were handing out a lot of town reads early for small things, so I went to check ISOs from some town games at random. It seems like you do hand out quick townreads as town, but there are maybe a few more than usual this game. You also aren't pushing people here quite as much as you seem like you do as town early.

Now, you're seemingly conscious of this, so IDK if I can really put any stock in it. It just struck me as a tonally weird thing I should look into.

[VP Baltar]

You also aren't pushing people here quite as much as you seem like you do as town early.

This is a terrible sentence construction, but hopefully that makes sense.

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar ~ unsure? had some scumvibes earlier but i do actually like that you're caring enuf abt my alignment to meta me, i think that's unlikely to come from

town

here

*obligatory scumslip post acknowledgement

[VP Baltar]

Let me post my hip shot reads and see if anything interesting surfaces for me since I'm not necessarily loving my vote right now:

Andresvmb

- IDK, hasn't posted much. What's there is within his town range, but I've never seen him as scum I don't think. I usually get a good feel for andres as the game goes on. Wouldn't yeet D1.

Datisi

- You know what's fucked? The only other time I can remember Datisi easy town reading me early was in 2175 when he was scum. I know this because he talks about this game a lot and I actually just looked it up. Other than that, has seemed townish. Would not yeet D1.

skitter30

- Seems within town range, my weird gut feels aside.

OutWorldER

- Seems pretty reasonable. Maybe slightly aggressive out of the gate and tryharding, but can't say I find him that scummy. Nullish. Maybe lean town.

Reformed Toxic Player

- Being RTP and playing things fairly close to the vest so far. Maybe would have expected a little more spice at this point, but oh well. Null.

Something_Smart

- Nothing burger posts. I should probably look at SS's play early on in that large game I replaced into, but IDK if I will. Have more opinions SS. Null.

Aristeia

- Seems to be playing a somewhat similar game to Open 840 so far...which means not saying a lot yet. I get the sense Ari likes to sit and watch a bit before going after people, which is fine I guess. Null to lean town. Would not yeet D1.

innocentvillager

- stated my feelings earlier on this. null to lean scum maybe.

Laplacian

- I can't remember any hard stances he's taken. Seems like he might start playing here now though. I'll reserve judgement with a Null.

Frogsterking

- I go back and forth here. The survey is kind of ridiculous and seems like a tryhard thing to duplicate in a scum game to gain credit. His arguments with people are also terrible...which is maybe townpoints? Trying to not let a personal bias against long winded posts affect my read here too much. Wildcard null at any given moment!

House

- Acting belligerent with people for no reason, which weirdly is a posting style I enjoy as long as the game doesn't become toxic? Lean town though. He's saying things and flipping stances without caring too much how people read it.

Almost50

- Can't tell if A50 is legit just treating the game differently after a break or is using that as a cover to lurk. It's obv throwing me, and others it seems. Would like a little more engagement pretty please A50? Null to lean scum.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: a50

[VP Baltar]

Why do you think these responses are towny? The Datisi one I can maybe maybe see, but definitely not the VP Baltar one.

Counterpoint, mine was the towniest answer.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi - You know what's fucked? The only other time I can remember Datisi easy town reading me early was in 2175 when he was scum. I know this because he talks about this game a lot and I actually just looked it up. Other than that, has seemed townish. Would not yeet D1.

I was scum with Datisi in this game, and you were not in it. Unless you're alt of someone.

sorry *2195

typo.

[VP Baltar]

Why do you think these responses are towny? The Datisi one I can maybe maybe see, but definitely not the VP Baltar one.

Counterpoint, mine was the towniest answer.

Why?

Because that is what I would do as scum. Take the survey and just tank the results by lying.

[VP Baltar]

House, would you flip frogster or skitter first?

[VP Baltar]

House, would you flip frogster or skitter first?

I'm trying to hold out hope that sitter is wrongheaded town.

Ok, I think skitter could be town here. Just trying to cut down on the unnecessary fighting if she isn't really who you want to yeet

[VP Baltar]

Why do you think these responses are towny? The Datisi one I can maybe maybe see, but definitely not the VP Baltar one.

Counterpoint, mine was the towniest answer.

Why?

Because that is what I would do as scum. Take the survey and just tank the results by lying.

Idk maybe, that feels way too first order though. I think scum could approach this in more ways than just that. Maybe it's because I got here late after he posted the survey, but I don't really feel there's that much benefit for scum to take the survey at all.

I already proved it isn't effective by pulling his reads from the last game he used it in.

Posting it is NAI at best imo. It isn't going to lead to actually catching scum, and that's my main problem with it. If he's town, I'd like to dissuade him from pulling this in future games.

[VP Baltar]

That's not how math works - if I claim to have a model that predicts a 50% event with 75% probability and I predict wrong in one instance, that doesn't prove my model is trash.

It certainly doesn't prove it works! What is the point if arguing this?

[VP Baltar]

IV, did we have a game together where you were scum? I can't remember

[VP Baltar]

no. We've been TvT in 2180, Jungle, and 2207. Actually, you me and Datisi were TvTvT in all 3 of those.

Fun fact, we lost all of those games.

Oof, jungle hurt. Here is all of us being town and getting redemption.

[VP Baltar]

*here is to

[VP Baltar]

no. We've been TvT in 2180, Jungle, and 2207. Actually, you me and Datisi were TvTvT in all 3 of those.

Fun fact, we lost all of those games.

Oof, jungle hurt. Here is all of us being town and getting redemption.

It's possible!

And while we lost all those games I'd consider the outcomes of those quite unlucky - I think on balance the three of us contributed more + to town than the average player.

Yeah, I agree on the bad luck in those. Such is the game

[VP Baltar]

Kumbaya it is, I suppose... despite my best efforts to the contrary.

I will still rip your head of if I think you are scum. Don't worry bb

[VP Baltar]

It's ok pat pat
VOTE: laplacian
I never Townresd this slot btw I just wanted to be the good cop whole people were pushing them to get them to feel hopeful: 3

If your other read is iv, why are you switching votes?

[VP Baltar]

Rah roh. Scumslip detected.

[VP Baltar]

Also, this FUCK didn't even say THANK YOU when I said happy cake day.

[VP Baltar]

Scrambled eggs heart here

[VP Baltar]

People were busy bees overnight apparently

[VP Baltar]

@Frog: I do get BW'd a lot and I usually do ignore it when it's not supported with a case. I also have a sinking feeling at least one (but more likely two) of the three votes on me are scum motivated. I did obscure my claim back there for a reason, and scum are probably curious as to what PR I claim to be a Backup to. It just took them a while to find a reason to be on my wagon (which I believe is being pushed to get me to either fully claim or flip me and see my role)

Lol

Which of the votes on you are scum though for realsies?

[VP Baltar]

while i like the ~initiative~ and ~proactivity~ that this post brings, i'm not sure how much i like the fact that a lot of this post is... "lol idk haha". also, didn't we just have a realization that only scum posts readslists early?

in any case, the part on me is correct, the one and only time i publicly townread you early was when i was scum. what about my play is "townish" enough to offset that point for you?

First, I set the site meta. (Though really I decided to post a readslist mostly for myself because I was thinking I had too many "lol idk" reads at this point and maybe writing some stuff down would help solidify my own feelings. Also wanted to give something to talk about that wasn't house screaming at people bc I was bored).

As far as your play, I think you're mostly being typical you. Asking questions to a wide variety of people and poking at motivations for why folks are doing stuff. I'm interested to read your responses to iv's posting last night when I do a proper catch up today, since it his posts were giving me a genuine vibe.

[VP Baltar]

this is not really wrong, but the issue is that this is something i do as either alignment? or like, at least i try to emulate when red.

That's why I said town enough. I know I can read you over time. It's not my priority rn.

[VP Baltar]

as for my responses to iv, not sure i got much. i do think his posts were, like, ~genuine~, but i don't think that necessarily makes him town? i think iv is capable of genuineposting as either alignment, so i am interested if/what you specifically found townie

You have seen him post frustrated like that as scum? Feel like I have definitely seen him do that as town. It's hard to put a finger on the tone exactly, but it is like a subtle annoyance at trying to change your playstyle and then expressing defeat very quickly when that isn't an easy sell. He seems like he is taking that a bit personally. Which could be scum ate of course, but feels a bit more like town ate to me.

You obv switched your vote off, so how do you feel about it?

[VP Baltar]

VP, how did you feel when RTP first suggested their VP/iv/Lap solve?

Seems like an unlikely solve when 2/3 in your solve are or were in lurker territory and I'm the fucking shining light of towniness.

What's actually concerning though is that RTP states that as their solve, has a viable wagon on iv, and then abandons it for a less viable Lap wagon. Doesn't have a ring of actually believing in your solve.

[VP Baltar]

It's not my priority

i am fucking heartbroken

You know if you're alive tomorrow, you're obv scum so...

[VP Baltar]

class break ending, gotta run, i can go into this further later today if you'd like

I haven't really read the last 10 pages yet (and probably won't for a few hours since I need to do some work atm), but if you didn't really directly address iv's posts, I would be interested in hearing you give them a close look and some level of conclusion on where your stance on his slot is given he was your wagon focus for a bit there.

[VP Baltar]

VP, how did you feel when RTP first suggested their VP/iv/Lap solve?

Seems like an unlikely solve when 2/3 in your solve are or were in lurker territory and I'm the fucking shining light of towniness.

What's actually concerning though is that RTP states that as their solve, has a viable wagon on iv, and then abandons it for a less viable Lap wagon. Doesn't have a ring of actually believing in your solve.

You think scum are not in lurkers?

They could be. Are most of the scum in the lurkers with a player list where most of the players are reasonably competent as scum? Unlikely.

[VP Baltar]

So what makes you like the a50 wagon and not the iv wagon?

And it sounds like you FoS RTP.

Eh, I wouldn't go that far on RTP yet. They could just have their head up their ass a bit and be lazy. I think their reads aren't great right now, and Koba is usually pretty on it, but I want to see more.

On a50 and iv, I think their "returns" to the game are notable. Iv is at least being active and giving thoughts. A50 just omgused people voting him and claims people are voting him because he made the same fake PR claim he does all the time? Seems like scum floundering to me! Get on this wagon everyone.

[VP Baltar]

U R, SS.

[VP Baltar]

It certainly doesn't prove it works! What is the point if arguing this?

You're the one who brought up the argument, and now you're asking what the point of the argument is...

Actually, I let it rest after I made my point. IV revived it.

[VP Baltar]

SS, you going to vote someone at somepoint?

[VP Baltar]

Its pretty clear but my read on IV did soften once i saw them post a lot more.

It was not clear because you didn't actually say anything?

What about iv's posts did you like, let's start there.

[VP Baltar]

Actually, wait...

You said iv was in your solve. Lol wtf

[VP Baltar]

Nah im not wasting discussion space for this conversation

If youre trying to say im scum you should be voting me (:

I am just trying to understand your thought process in switching from iv to Lap when there was a viable iv wagon.

Then you said it was obvious you felt better about iv ... which idk how anyone is supposed to know that, but ok.


Then I realized you just said you felt better about iv at the same time he was in your vp/iv/Lap solve. Which, uh...

[VP Baltar]

Why is laplacian town, vp? Since you're so desperate to push a scum me angle

Definitely never said lap was town.

[VP Baltar]

What is your read on iv rn?

[VP Baltar]

Probably not. The person I would vote is Lap, but that wagon probably goes through before I'd like to end the day.

That's a fair reason to hold your vote. I'll consider it there in spirit. Why do you like a lap vote?

[VP Baltar]

the post above made me skim laplacian's iso from newbie 2085 and my conclusion is that i do not feel like unvoting right now

@baltar, if you wanna do meta reads, can you do one here, might be spicy

Yeah, looking at SS and Lap metas is something on my vague to do list.

[VP Baltar]

Nah im not wasting discussion space for this conversation

If youre trying to say im scum you should be voting me (:

I am just trying to understand your thought process in switching from iv to Lap when there was a viable iv wagon.

Then you said it was obvious you felt better about iv ... which idk how anyone is supposed to know that, but ok.


Then I realized you just said you felt better about iv at the same time he was in your vp/iv/Lap solve. Which, uh...

Datisi, did you read this and does it strike you as weird?

[VP Baltar]

good luck with my meta lol

Well, I do at least have that wild ass large where you were scum to look at

[VP Baltar]

it is definitely weird, but i know rtp is somewhat easy sometimes to be made out of to look weird because their thought processes aren't 100% connected at times and they don't always elaborate when asked

this is a pure grammatical shitfest but i hope you understand what i am saying

pedit: it's fine i'm really tired anyway

Yeah, I followed it. That's fine if you're tired. I don't see how rtp can legitimately make themselves out to be a victim when I was just asking a question based on votes and their scum read, but I don't think this is a thing you need to skip sleep over. It can be answered later.

[VP Baltar]

I don't know Laplacian's alignment, but he makes me laugh.

Hmm

I will Stan that psych 101 joke to my grave if I have to.

[VP Baltar]

Ari, you're here and agree with RTP's solve. Do you have thoughts on their progression on iv?

[VP Baltar]

I don't know Laplacian's alignment, but he makes me laugh.

Hmm

I will Stan that psych 101 joke to my grave if I have to.

You don't think it's sus that you're slot is only willing to vote a lurker who claimed named townie and not the player who has been FoSing you all game?

A50 is a very competent player and my vote has nothing to do with him claiming...which isn't really AI for him.

I don't just vote people because they are suspicious of me either. Doesn't auto make them scum.

[VP Baltar]

So you would like to get rid of a very competent player? Couldn't they help us solve the game later?

Also, if your town then RTP then has a strong scum motivation to shade you, which they have been doing semi-successfully.

I want to get rid of scum. They are not going to help us later in the game.

As far as shading, I don't mind being shaded. It happens to me extensively in every game and most people eventually realize I'm town. I'm very comfortable there. I will figure out RTP's alignment, and if they are scum, they're just getting pulled into deep water they won't survive by trying to shade me.

[VP Baltar]

I think we should consider an alternative strategy where we choose someone who isn't at the bottom of the PoE or the top of the PoE because those D1 executions have been more likely to hit scum FMPOV.

I don't think I'm following here exactly. What PoE are you referencing?

[VP Baltar]

I don’t think I said that I had perceived that Datisi was keeping their shit together. I said that they way they were generating a read looked to me like it was coming from Town. I also indicated that the meta on Datisi checked out, in that they act nervous and a bit overly energized as Scum, particularly under pressure (which to start the game they were). I didn’t spend sufficient time trying to figure out whether I was perceiving Datisi as being calm. Does that make sense?

Mostly it makes sense. Not sure I agree Datisi was really under pressure since it was a goof RVS wagon, but other than that I think I'm following what you're saying.

[VP Baltar]

For right now I trust RTP because I'm fairly sure this is their town game

What makes you say this? I'd like to be convinced of that so I can stop wasting my time trying to figure them out.

[VP Baltar]

checks out, anyone over the age of 30 posting on the internet posts like a mid 2000's teenager.

hahahahaha.... fatality

[VP Baltar]

btw, this was my reasoning for putting rtp in "slightly townie but also very headache" part of the triangle - i recognized that their "townread" on laplacian was just fishing for associates, bc i know they do that as town. my issue is that that seemed a *bit* too over the top, like if their true goal was getting associates, it felt a *bit* too friendly.

Are you saying this is why you're giving them townpoints or this is why they are a headache and you're less sure?

[VP Baltar]

oh, there's also 458, where he says frogster is town "for effort" but he's leaving the vote there anyway and askjfesgrhegt

This is a good point against lap

[VP Baltar]

Two things I want to ask of the playerlist as a whole concerning the immediate state of the game:

#1 Do you think any or all of Lap, iv, a50 are lunchbait?

#2 Is there any reason why any or all of these wagons can't be scum lead, or at least largely pushed by scum?

I don't really know lap, so I can't speak to him. I've fought with town iv before and he's not a push over. A50 also doesn't seem like yeetbait to me because his playstyle is weird and people know that. That means he only needs to crack a few jokes and act non-chalant for people to generally give him a pass. I don't think I've seen A50 be misyeeted before, but I have only a few games with him.

[VP Baltar]

As to the second question, I don't think all of the wagons are scum led. I'm not scum, I don't believe House or skitter are scum, so the A50 wagon seems good to me.

The lap and iv wagons were both comprised essentially of the (datisi, ari, RTP) core. I doubt all the scum move like that together immediately in the game, but there could be scum in that mix.

[VP Baltar]

ok, I'm caught up. I didn't miss much.

I hope andres can catch up. I'd like to hear more from him. Outworld too!

[VP Baltar]

Do you have any legitimate reasons to distrust Datisi or RTP?

They are both very good players you should trust but be ready to question. I'm not ready for blind faith mode just yet.

Did see one thing in my catch up that maybe puts me more at ease with Datisi, so that's good.

[VP Baltar]

House, why is andres so low on your list?

[VP Baltar]

House, why is andres so low on your list?

Since your on VP, I want to clarify, are you still/were you ever townreading House and Skitter?

Yeah, I think they are probably both town.

[VP Baltar]

the fact that i think iv is much less paranoid of vp so he stops me from spiraling into a paranoia tunnel, but the fact that vp was not even mentioned in the list is ??? ? ? ? ?? ?

ok i see he was mentioned in 533 and uuuuuuuuugh iv why can't you just be town instead of spending so much time explaining why you won't be town

Coming back to this...there are several people not mentioned in IV's list (me, andres, Outworld, SS, etc).

Why did you single me out?

[VP Baltar]

Are you open to a suggestion on your play VP?

Are you saying you want to tell me how to play mafia???????

[VP Baltar]

lol sure, sign me up

[VP Baltar]

Hey Laplacian, why are you posting so little and not like, actually scumhunting this game? Your town game in Newbie 2085 is EXTREMELY different than your play here.

[VP Baltar]

Maybe it's right for you to be angry, because you were treated unfairly, and Datisi is not the person who is responsible?

I'm not mad? I think I understand what you're trying to imply, and we can talk about that if you want.

Datisi and I have a lot of game history and I want to know his alignment as early as I can.
Don't be surprised if I ask him a lot of questions.

[VP Baltar]

That sounds less than "fairly sure", but ok

[VP Baltar]

Welcome back RTP, reupping this so you can respond to it.

Nah im not wasting discussion space for this conversation

If youre trying to say im scum you should be voting me (:

I am just trying to understand your thought process in switching from iv to Lap when there was a viable iv wagon.

Then you said it was obvious you felt better about iv ... which idk how anyone is supposed to know that, but ok.


Then I realized you just said you felt better about iv at the same time he was in your vp/iv/Lap solve. Which, uh...

[VP Baltar]

What is your read on iv rn?

Also this one

[VP Baltar]

When this ate is over, can you tell me your iv read?

[VP Baltar]

Vote me vp

Do it,

I like where my vote is

[VP Baltar]

I think the thread would better off if you two didn't talk to each other though for at least the next day or so

Wait me? Wtf did I do?

[VP Baltar]

I agree that the Lap wagon is pure but I don't think Lap is the best target. I don't think a50 is the best target either.

If we can't get a50 today, I don't think Lap is a bad yeet fwiw. He is playing very differently from his one completed town game. Could be a noob shitting the game, but it's a pretty stark difference

[VP Baltar]

I agree it's sus and still I think it's important to remember that the player list are much faster and sharper than in his completed town game.

Yeah, I agree. Trying to weigh that

[VP Baltar]

So you think Lap is doing a good job playing middle ground to come across null?

[VP Baltar]

So you think Lap is doing a good job playing middle ground to come across null?

i dont think theyre doing a good job at it.

Yeah, I went back through his iso before I metaed him today and it is very whatever.

I'm not really sold on the iv-lap combo, but I'd absolutely vote lap if needed.

[VP Baltar]

Rtp...you're null on a50, right?

[VP Baltar]

yes im null on a50 which is - again - why i am ok with the wagon on him rn but i wanna push my own preferred wagon


i like competing wagons

especially if i think theyre scum v scum

Definitely. OK, let's get these two run up.

I'm not sure why frog wants a third wagon, but people should be dropping votes on lap or a50. (Technically lap may be at enough intended votes to force a claim).

[VP Baltar]

who is Andre voting right now and why?

Isn't he voting lap because he is sleeping RTP?

[VP Baltar]

Andres is late game beast as town. We aren't yeeting him

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Laplacian

I’m going to put this down for now.

[VP Baltar]

I don’t really want to spend the time I have here just talking about me and how my meta is useless here so id like to move on

No one is forcing you to. Just tell us who you want to kill and why

[VP Baltar]

I can't believe you have the audacity to show up here posting content trying to force town tells the second you get accused again.

He posted before you voted fwiw

[VP Baltar]

Well that was a thing.

Good morning all

[VP Baltar]

Intent to hammer laplacian. Claim.

[VP Baltar]

can i know what this is? for, uh, future reference.

No. It may not even be accurate, but holding it for now.

[VP Baltar]

and i'm also annoyed because i'm *hoping* we're t/t/t again, and him quelling my paranoia here would help me, and he didn't do that >_>

If you're paranoid of me, why did you state a town read so fast?

[VP Baltar]

vp:

A50 is a very competent player and my vote has nothing to do with him claiming...

So you would like to get rid of a very competent player? Couldn't they help us solve the game later?

I want to get rid of scum. They are not going to help us later in the game.

You think andres is scum? I don't get that vibe from his early posts.
also vp:

Andres is late game beast as town. We aren't yeeting him

:thonk:

[VP Baltar]

vp:

A50 is a very competent player and my vote has nothing to do with him claiming...

So you would like to get rid of a very competent player? Couldn't they help us solve the game later?

I want to get rid of scum. They are not going to help us later in the game.

also vp:

Andres is late game beast as town. We aren't yeeting him

:thonk:

EBWOP: You think andres is scum? I don't get that vibe from his early posts.

[VP Baltar]

While we wait, I have a question: Ari, are you intentionally avoiding interacting with me today?

[VP Baltar]

I enjoy that a50 posted and did his best to say nothing concrete about Lap and the wagon on him.

[VP Baltar]

Watching frog move from bad take to bad take is really an experience.

[VP Baltar]

Intent to hammer laplacian. Claim.

No one cares what they claim rofl

Given a couple people said they wanted more time for the thread to be open, stating intent when I might otherwise have hammered seemed like the nice thing to do, and I am nothing if not EXTREMELY NICE

[VP Baltar]

While we wait, I have a question: Ari, are you intentionally avoiding interacting with me today?

Yes.

Is there something you wanted to talk about?

Was just curious because there were two times I posed things directly to you and you just straight didn't respond to me. So it stuck out.

[VP Baltar]

vp, why did you put laplacian under intetn?

You had said you would prefer the day doesn't wrap before you finish your exams or whatever, but I probably would have hammered at that point otherwise, so stating to Laplacian if he's reading this is his last chance to speak and he can't really lurk this out anymore.

Unlike RTP, I don't think claims are useless either, so there is potential information to be gained in this waiting period.

[VP Baltar]

translate: give scum a free pass for a day so they can buy time

Buy time to what? If lap is scum and A50 is scum, which isnt outside the realm of possibility, they are in a very shit spot. I don't mind making then squirm for something.

Fwiw, I am unlikely to wait the entire time datisi wants before I actually do hammer. I have already decided when this will be between now and then.

Tick tock, lap.

[VP Baltar]

why are you not scum with laplacian

I don't have an answer for you other than I'm not. I don't think there are strong associatives between me and Lap (or really anyone given his lack of presence in the game), so I'm not sure what a satisfying answer would be there.

[VP Baltar]

Why are you not scum with lap?

[VP Baltar]

Yeah maybe. If he does flip scum, he was absolutely bus bait though.

[VP Baltar]

I do somewhat believe you wouldn't be a complete asshat and do that though unless he agreed to it

[VP Baltar]

ftr, the reason why i asked you that is because i was aimlessly skimming though your iso earlier, i found the post where you were half-shading rtp for changing their vote from iv to lap, and to my tired brain that looked ~odd~, so i decided to ask an open-end question because they are still something i struggle with a lot

no, your answer didn't give me shit

pedit: bus bait, definitely
but look into *any* of my scum pts to see how much i plan things like this out

I stand by my point that RTP's reason for switching votes there made no sense if you follow the line of argument they are putting forward.

I think RTP also knows this is true and that's why they didn't want to engage me on it. Doesn't mean they are scum, but my question was very much in bounds from my perspective.

[VP Baltar]

pedit: bus bait, definitely
but look into *any* of my scum pts to see how much i plan things like this out

You don't lean into a bus when you're scum?

[VP Baltar]

vetoing any push on datisi until limlo ty

Oh if he is alive tomorrow we know he is scum.

Jkjk, I'm going HAM on A50.

[VP Baltar]

Jkjk, I'm going HAM on A50.

who is the third scumfuck in your opinion?

Slightly worried about Ari, but I think that is just due to her not really engaging with the thread, which I suspect will change tomorrow since that seemed to be more of her MO in the last game we played.

With House adding iv to my town squad and frogster doing whatever the fuck he is doing, the PoE in this game doesn't look too bad at the moment.

[VP Baltar]

That would be very bad

[VP Baltar]

Yooo, I legit had a paranoia spiral this morning about frogster picking up people giving him a pass for tstbs and that's why he went on these latest ridiculous rants about iv and me....

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Laplacian

Day Over

Definitely think this flips scum now

[VP Baltar]

is "this" a50 or lap

2 for 1!

[VP Baltar]

If I die tonight, yeet a50 into the sun.

[VP Baltar]

if a50's to flip green... i think that means there's scum in vp/skitt. they were both pushing a50, and i *really* don't think the a50 wagon in 617 and 750 is pure.

Half considering if you might be scum for this, dats.

[VP Baltar]

That RTP died over either of us, however, is disconcerting.

I agree with this. Why do you think that was House?

[VP Baltar]

I'm going to go to the bar, but food for thought: I don't think Lap's wagon was pure and A50 wasn't the scum on it.

[VP Baltar]

I'm going to go to the bar, but food for thought: I don't think Lap's wagon was pure and A50 wasn't the scum on it.

Looking at the OP it says the mafia was a goon so probably in the front half and planned bus would be where I would start.

Yeah, I am considering datisi might be a scum fuck here.

[VP Baltar]

I am at the bar and not reading the thread tonight. In case it wasn't clear, Mathblade is confirmed town. Also, we are not yeeting me today.

[VP Baltar]

Ari and datisi are the most likely candidates for scum.

[VP Baltar]

ari sheeped me on lap without question and without ever trying to divert me from him.

Ari was fourth on that wagon or something right? This feels like a very questionable townread to me.

Yesterday you agreed with my assessment that Lap was bus bait. So...why wouldn't this be a suspect in a bus to you?

Additionally, do you think the Lap wagon was pure?

[VP Baltar]

It's too wifomy of a kill if both me and VP are town and I really don't see why scum wouldn't just let koba deathtunnel town!VP

I was thinking about this while drinking rainiers tonight.

I think the RTP kill was possibly a paranoia kill by datisi!scum. On D1, Datisi mentioned he is aware of RTP's tendency to claim a townread on someone and then flip the script. Then at some point on D1, RTP said "never yeet datisi until xylo" or whatever. I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility that a scum was just in a relatively safe position and wanted a wildcard out of the way.

[VP Baltar]

Did you mean to include the double negative so you don't think a50 wasn't the scum on the lap wagon, meaning a50 is a scum and you're looking at Datisi as a potential third?

That is not a double negative because those are independent clauses.

The big picture you are stating is correct though. A50 isn't scum, and I'm looking at datisi as a potential scumbag on the Lap wagon.

[VP Baltar]

PEdit: Okay it sounds like this is more along the lines of what you expect from town!Math

How do you know what town Math is like?

[VP Baltar]

I have trouble with coming up with a scum team that decides to bigbrain shoot RTP in order to frame Baltar rather than just let RTP live and death-tunnel Baltar into the ground

I had no sense RTP was going to be tunneling me at all as opposed to wanting to yeet a50. Despite our disagreements D1, RTP was realizing I was town by the time the Lap yeet happened.

They were giving me shit about not hammering because they were confident in the read, which is very whatever. You trying to act like that is some major indictment is sus because you should actually be better than that.

[VP Baltar]

Mainly still getting vibes but on paper D1 was almost certainly a bus with at least one buddy on.

Anyone disputing there was at least one scum on the lap wagon is a fool or scum themselves.

[VP Baltar]

VP talk to me i think u could be town xD
I want to hear ur case on daisy and ari

My case is that scum bus weak ass teammates who pull goon.

Ari hasn't played the game to this point, as I talked about yesterday. Datisi was actively trying to chain yeets off an A50 green flip.

[VP Baltar]

actively trying to chain yeets off an A50 green flip.

This part datisi. This part.

[VP Baltar]

Not so sure VP is scum tbh. They aren’t giving me dead scum vibes. So help an ol foagie out and let him talk

How familiar are you with VPB scum?

How familiar are you? I've never played scum against you that I'm aware of.

[VP Baltar]

I am just weird lol. If you know Titus I am her brother

Oh really? That is cool!

[VP Baltar]

you just saw me lead the charge on scum, in a way that is counter to both my personality and my scum!meta

This is malarkey. You play to win.

[VP Baltar]

and you're having issues with me "chaining" flips instead of actually getting into the argument of what i was saying

The argument you are setting up is "let's flip a50, and if he flips green ( which he will), let's flip vp and skitter".

That seems like a bad look.

ALSO, you posted a read on a dead RTP, which I have a hard time believing you didn't seen before posting. That's a little LAMIST.

[VP Baltar]

a50 very much looked like a partner hammering out of desperation, everyone else's vote looked Good.

This is worth reconsidering if you are town.

[VP Baltar]

RTP was realizing I was town by the time the Lap yeet happened.

Do me a favor and show me where you got the notion RTP townread you at any point between these posts.

VP IS FUCKJNG SCUM

Intent to hammer laplacian. Claim.

No one cares what they claim rofl

You of all people would understand this if you were town

Rtp acknowledged why I was pushing a50 d1 and was talking to me instead of emotionally flailing about calling me scum like they had been earlier, ribbing about the hammer aside. Read the thread.

[VP Baltar]

a50 very much looked like a partner hammering out of desperation, everyone else's vote looked Good.

This is worth reconsidering if you are town.

Lol
Dude who says I am confirmed town says that he’d consider me scum if Dat flips town says what?

As house states, that's not what I was saying

[VP Baltar]

and also. the day was supposed to start at half past midnight for me. i was dead tired at 10:30pm because the construction down my street woke me up yesterday morning. i stayed up studying biology so that i could be up when the day started. then half past midnight passed, and the day want starting. i went to bed, but tried to not fail asleep immediately. i had that copy pasted, and i did not feel like deleting that post considering it was ONE AM and i was on the verge of fucking passing out

I don't want to fight about personal life stuff because I find that tacky.

I'm just saying, even if you wrote the post over night, deleting an obviously unnecessary paragraph is not work. The alternative is you didn't see the flip, which I doubt

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I stayed up for you mugs to catch up. I'm going to sleep now!

[VP Baltar]

a50 very much looked like a partner hammering out of desperation, everyone else's vote looked Good.

This is worth reconsidering if you are town.

Rewording for Mathblade:

Datisi, you should reconsider your scumread on this player I'm literally calling confirmed town if you are, in fact, town.

Also, WHO THE FUCK IS THE BUSSING SCUM THEN?

[VP Baltar]

WHY DOES THERE HAVE TO BE BUSSING SCUM

i'm gonna get up, get a coffee, and then try to read this shitfest

Come on now....

[VP Baltar]

WHY DOES THERE HAVE TO BE BUSSING SCUM

i'm gonna get up, get a coffee, and then try to read this shitfest

Come on now....

You can post in your sleep?

Teach me, Yoda.

The metaverse is beautiful and I feel no pain.


Okok, I'm actually going to sleep now and foregoing this opportunity to talk to datisi when he is bright eyed in the morning. Good night