A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[Tammy]

Hi!

VOTE: The Pied Piper

Nacho you'd love my musical!

[Tammy]

prod-dodge.

sorry. I'm right in the middle of something right now. I'm going to try to read some of this tonight, but I might not be able to until tomorrow.

I did read the first page the other night though and don't worry spiffeh a town-Tammy is here, also nacho you wound me by doubting the musical reference.

[Tammy]

mala - hi mala! Why did you find it odd that sakura wanted to sort nacho early?

[Tammy]

Without reading it I guess you can interpret it that way.

That implies you think I should commit to RVS town reads. The idea behind early town reads is to make someone I like comfortable so they either play scummier or townier since they feel more safe going for there wincon. It also makes scum panic that people are establishing town pools before they get to look good which makes them play worse.

I expect scum to start playing weird and town to play more aggressive from that. Sakura votes me for the sketchiest reasons and ignores all other players. Turns out she skimmed the thread so it made sense she ignored other players which is why I didn't feel comfortable committing to that scum read. In terms of pressure I wouldn't drop the read if I didn't want to vote anyone but I have seniors so I had better things to vote. Also I think everyone has pushed someone because they think someone is playing badly not because they are scum so it is just something I acknowledged.

This is the first post of beeboy's I've liked. I was considering voting him when I caught up. Didn't really like the point on sakura. The point on seniors is weird too, but I'm reading that as mostly ego/reaction based so meh.

[Tammy]

Tic tac if you think I a exaggerating you don't understand seniors play at all.

Nothing they have done so far is towny. They also shouldn't have voted Snarky. They wouldn't mess up like that and do scummy things as town twice in a row then leave thread.

Neither one would be playing this safe and reserved as town. No one is this safe as town.

But then I don't like this post.

~~~

Agree that dave pointing out the hydra thing and calling it a backtrack when he explained his hydra thing is mehsville squared.

[Tammy]

Why Seniors is scum!

-They ignored my buddy offer.
-1 page later they replied.

What this is telling me is that they are scum and want to avoid looking awkward so they didn't immediately reply to me. They thought about a reply and wanted me to stop attracting attention and posted incredibly late.
I would be scum reading anyone for doing that.

How is an hour difference *incredibly* late.

You offered your buddy here:

VOTE: Friendless Seniors

Want to buddy up?

An hour later they respond.

beeboy I only buddy you when we're scum together

I'm easy to sort when trying don't worry

I was starting to think you were just trying to get a reaction but this actually looks like you're trying to push it as a reason for voting them and exaggerating something that I can't fathom how you think it comes from scum.

Your snarky point is a bit better, but that didn't look like a strong push from them and just because someone is lynchbait doesn't mean that you can't suspect them or try to read them, so hopefully this gets better or stronger because right now I'm a big pile of eh.

[Tammy]

Tammy have you read the entire thread?

No, I'm on post 156.

[Tammy]

Tictac what part of my read on seniors is fake and scummy?

The part where you have a strong read on a slot that hasn't done anything.
How is this difficult to get?

Tictac you're just completely disregarding that Seniors has done things to get reads from and going, "he's null, Beeboy's push is bad!!!"
Which isn't true.

What about beeboy's push is good.

How serious do you think their snarky vote was?

[Tammy]

I mean I get that they said "real vote" when they voted, but snarky also voted for them, but how serious do you actually believe their vote was?

[Tammy]

True Ogre's entrance post is pretty balls.
Withholding vote is fine, ESPECIALLY not after beeboy tells him to vote us and then ogre does.
Look at how terrible withholding vote is there. Ogre OPENLY admits to being unsure of people that they want to sort, that they are considering to maybe be scum, and then just... doesn't vote. nope.
"I will entertain Sakura argument" is basically saying "I don't want to commit yet (which is fine) but i'm not gonna do anything about it (which isn't fine)"
"keeping an eye on axelrod" uh huh.

Can you put this into English though?

What's wrong with him not voting?

[Tammy]

This is scum seniors don't lie. No one sits around for 1 hour and makes a naked shot vote

I do.

[Tammy]

This is scum seniors don't lie. No one sits around for 1 hour and makes a naked shot vote

I do.

If it was normal coming from them they would have defended themselves instead of the point linger.

Why defend them like this? It isn't constructive at all.

You're making a generalized statement about how no one behaves. It's part of why I can't take your read seriously and I've been expecting that it's just a reaction gathering/designed to look like you really believe strongly about something. You've made sweepings statements about how town/scum behave, not just about seniors but in your talk with sakura. Either you really haven't played that many games and you're trying sound knowledgeable or you're full of shit.

It's not about defending them; it's about pointing out that you're arguments aren't sound. You want to make it sound like you can read them, but then you make these types of statements that I know are not true by any objective stance. It weakens it, isn't constructive, and doesn't inspire trust in your ability to read the game or them.

[Tammy]

EBWOP: @Tammy

I just find all your catch up incredibly underwhelming.

color me unsurprised you'd find my questioning you underwhelming.

[Tammy]

Unless you are aspiring to vote me what I am saying is only interacting with me for the first 200 paes of the game is pretty unconstructive.
If that is the case I find it weird you haven't voted me yet.

By discrediting my ability to read people and my seniors arguments you are defending them no matter how you try and spin it.

If by pointing out that your over generalizations are over generalized, not helpful, or convincing in any way, then sure I'm defending them. I look at it at looking past that and trying to figure out the actual read.

If your case is based on being able to read them really well then the overgeneralized stuff is not necessary and I need to cut through stuff I don't buy into to see something that makes sense.

[Tammy]

If by pointing out that your over generalizations are over generalized, not helpful, or convincing in any way, then sure I'm defending them. I look at it at looking past that and trying to figure out the actual read.

If your case is based on being able to read them really well then the overgeneralized stuff is not necessary and I need to cut through stuff I don't buy into to see something that makes sense.

Yes 500 posts later I am still voting them because I don't like there RVS I don't see the problem with that.

I have no idea if you're serious here.

But even if so, you're completely missing my point. You're making overgeneralizations about play in general and then saying oh I can read them.

The play should be about them in particular. You're saying no town would make a naked vote after one hour. That's just objectively wrong, and if you're going to claim no town do things I've seen town do all the time and do myself, I'm not going to take you seriously.

If you're going to talk about why it's specific to them, talk about that. Otherwise you're just blowing hot air.

[Tammy]

What I think is scummy about Friendless Seniors, aside from the SnarkySnowman vote, is that they have made a bunch of posts over the span of an hour, but in those posts, they did virtually nothing. I do not think it is scummy that various people haven't posted yet, or that there are people with only 1-2 posts. But if someone has several posts spread out over some time, but there is nothing worth reading in those posts, that's scummy. Errant's wall is the first thing of substance from that slot, but I know that they're capable of writing walls as both alignments and I want to digest it when I'm less tired.

I don't have any problem at all if in the beginning of the game someone posts a bunch and doesn't do anything. (I have a habit of not taking anything seriously and goofing off for the first 5 or so pages if the mood strikes me.) I am interested in that wall though as the points were meh.

[Tammy]

If by pointing out that your over generalizations are over generalized, not helpful, or convincing in any way, then sure I'm defending them. I look at it at looking past that and trying to figure out the actual read.

If your case is based on being able to read them really well then the overgeneralized stuff is not necessary and I need to cut through stuff I don't buy into to see something that makes sense.

Yes 500 posts later I am still voting them because I don't like there RVS I don't see the problem with that.

I have no idea if you're serious here.

But even if so, you're completely missing my point. You're making overgeneralizations about play in general and then saying oh I can read them.

The play should be about them in particular. You're saying no town would make a naked vote after one hour. That's just objectively wrong, and if you're going to claim no town do things I've seen town do all the time and do myself, I'm not going to take you seriously.

If you're going to talk about why it's specific to them, talk about that. Otherwise you're just blowing hot air.

No point in defending a push I made for a variety of reasons most of which have nothing to do with wanting Seniors lynched since my read has seriously evolved from where you are at right now.
I understand the point you are making but you are looking at what I am doing in a vacuum aren't looking at other players all that much and I still feel as though what you are doing this game underwhelming.
I feel as though what I did helped progress the game and if you don't think it is productive and you don't want to take me serious that is all on you but I am going to keep doing what I am doing.

OKAY!

[Tammy]

???????????????????????????????????

[Tammy]

don't be a jerk face!

[Tammy]

Do you have some issue with me trying to get a handle on beeboy and his read on seniors for some reason???

[Tammy]

OMG they were posted like an hour ago or so I believe!!!

[Tammy]

Your apologies are accepted.

[Tammy]

I tried to find an appropriate gif which had someone sticking their tongue out and folding their arms in front of them in frustration at your silliness, but all I could find was weird tongue stuff.

So *tonguewag which sounds like a raspberry while I fold my arms and stomp my feet at you*

[Tammy]

If you can't tell a hydra's posts apart then you don't need to in order to read them because you probably don't know them as well as you think you do.

[Tammy]

Also I still want that slot to explain the Snarky vote because they are dodging that.

ATM scum reads of varying degrees on Tictac, Seniors, Ogre, and Beeboy.

"scumread on the people beeboy is pushing AND beeboy"

this guy is fencesitting, stirring the pot and trying to get momentum on our wagon for seriously shoddy reasons.

VOTE: sircakez
sorry ep, this is the guy who needs to die

Eh.

(And I don't even like sircakez that much.)

[Tammy]

Oh heh first post I was going to make a rebuttal to then realized I was wrong about, so discount that first one.

[Tammy]

Tictac if your read on them is null I don't understand this defense of them at all. Seniors has done stuff, nothing useful though and the Snarky vote was pretty bad.

Tictac what's your read on Seniors?

Snarky is lynchbait so Beeboy's argument about Seniors pushing Snarky being a scum move does hold weight. Thus why I am still voting them.

Don't like Beeboy's flipflop on Sakura. Felt like there was no dedication or serious belief in it with how fast he got on and off.
Seniors's Snarky vote is bad as well. Not enough to justify it and Snarky is definitely not someone you get a serious scumread on from one post.

VOTE: Friendless Seniors

Why not vote anyone in your entrance then immediately sheep Beeboy onto Seniors?

These stances make no sense. Like, he is basically scumreading anyone making any sort of impact in the game. This is a super opportunistic position in the game and needs to be lynched.

[Tammy]

@cakes
What do you mean fence sitting? Fence sitting is when I don't take a stance on a popular wagon with lots of info. Sakura isnt a popular wagon nor is there any solid alignment indicative posts from her yet.

Yes a lot of my posts are about Seniors but that is a fallacy because of my post count
.

Since when is that fence sitting?
You're waffling everywhere on Sakura.

Why is waffling a problem?

[Tammy]

I haven't seen millers immediately claim flavor in games I've played with them, so I'll follow suit. You'll know when it's relevant. Or when I'm dead, whatever comes first.

I agree with the request for a flavor claim.

[Tammy]

Oh I have you're right derp
But she did wait to claim miller until like day 4 which is super shifty in itself
I don't think I've seen scum claim miller day 1 before

Bert in mafia with a quickness
VI can't remember his name in a cartoon themed game? My Little Pony some time back.

Two I know of off the top of my head.

Flavor claim would help if we have a flavor cop around. Miller claim won't help for cops, but could help for flavor cops.

[Tammy]

sircakez - I would love to hear who your biggest scum read is and why without using the phrases fencesit or waffle. gogogoogogogogogogogogoogogoogogogoogogogogoogogogogoogoooo

[Tammy]

dramonic vote for PP w/ me please

Dram no vote with me.

If either of you can provide me with a good reason to ignore obvscum Axel, then sure?

Why's axel scum again?

[Tammy]

My reservations were to do with his push on Sakura who I was not reading as scum. I did not expect him to back off so quickly but when he did I was more inclined to read him as town, as scum-beeboy had no reason to back off unless he was town and open to changing reads. Thus the sheep. Along with my own read on Seniors anyway.

That's not what I'm referring to.
I'm referring to how you said "I'm withholding my vote for now" then immediately voted in your next post.

Why is this problematic?

And can people stop acting like shit is scummy that isn't, you're making my head explode.

[Tammy]

As far as other folks go then, I'd be delighted for you to nominate a person to have a take on, otherwise what do you think of the Nacho/Plot hydra? I like Nacho's follow-ups but don't feel like I could read Plotinus if my life depended on it.

I can pretty much grab scum-nacho pretty well. last few games we played before our break I was able to spot him pretty early on, plus then there's tammy who can also spot him fairly easy tooo. I also can't read Ploti so!

~M

I already asked but why did you say you saw nothing out of the ordinary for nacho when sakura wanted to sort him early when what he posted early was absolutely alignment non-indicative for him?

[Tammy]

Alright, so far I haven't seen anything out of place for Nacho. So I'm unsure why you're focusing him for a sort so early on. Also then there's the fact Ploti is in that hydra too.

What do you mean about me? Do you mean that Sakura should be trying to sort us based on my posting or something else?

Seniors is policy tho.

Only scum wouldn't buddy up with me because I always hit scum when I wagon someone.
Seniors know this and should have accepted my hand in friendship but they don't want to be forced to bus.

I don't really know why, but this made me laugh.

Doesn't it remind you kind of my early push on Persivul in our last game? Beeboy's point makes about as much sense to me as my points against Persivul made to myself in that game.


Mirhawk could be town. I like the kinds of questions they're asking. Feels like genuine scumhunting.

I kinda screwed up tags.

I think I need to go back and skim a quick Sakura game. I /may/ have forgotten how she plays. I just think it's odd that she's going to sort Nacho part of your hydra, but it doesn't seem like she has engaged him /yet/. It's also odd how she's not really going to sort you because she has two parts of the hydra to get an easier read on you both. It's just really odd and I'm not sure why it bothers me so much. I don't know why, but her playstyle is reminding me a mixture of three other players into one.

It kinda does. I already made a comment to GM about beeboy's posts have been bugging me, but she told me it's normal beeboy so I think I'm going to wait and see how this goes.

I also was early reading Mirhawk, but the last three pages erased that townread plus GM was saying that Mirhawk's posts weren't sitting with her right.

~M

I feel like I'm harping here, but I really want you to explain *why* it's odd she wants to sort nacho. Has there been something of nacho's he's posted so far that she should have interacted with him about? Why do you find it odd she might not be trying to sort plot?

(Also, she has addressed nacho, though iirc she mistook plot for nacho. I could be wrong in that, it's late)

[Tammy]

Unvote
Vote: Pistachio

Eh, what the hell.

VOTE: Mirhawk

Going to vote and then talk to GM about it. If she feels differently we will certainly change our vote, but I am frankly starting to see not-town here.

I'm not sure how if she doesn't believe that Ami cc'd, but is willing to jump onto the building train that was happening that early page on.

I'm certainly a lot more sure of Mirhawk being scum than I was when I was reading early yesterday.

~M

I am revoking my town read on you.

go fur it. I don't care.

Just because my read doesn't agree with yours doesn't make me scum.

~M

I have a huge problem with you you saying you where scum reading him yesterday when that post above is the only thing that indicated you had a scum read on mirhawk. It is a blatant scum tell to pull stuff like that to justify your vote and it really bothers me which is why I have trouble seeing you flip town this game.

Nope, GM and I were discussing reads. I had a slight town read off pages 1-5 from Mirhawk, but I said I was holding off before saying it in thread and GM said she disagreed with me on it.

I think you're misrepping me pretty bad though. I am not fabricating my scum read on him. My read changed from early pages to his current posting so I'm failing to see how I'm justifying my read on him when it obviously changed from when I caught up after work and when I went to bed yesterday. I haven't had time to talk to GM today so I'm not sure if she's caught up or where she stands.

~M[/quote]

Where did the misreported occur?

[Tammy]

*misrepping

[Tammy]

Because obviously you voted after the CC when the wagon was growing.
Then shortly after you said you wanted her to CC, but was still voting. It felt as if you were leaving your options open which is a hugeeeeeee fencesit.

~M

I'm sorry for spamming people.

And Mala you are making me so unhappy right now.

[Tammy]

In what world does Ami CC that as scum wtf

I thought the CC was null tbh.

Wtf CCs aren't null
Its either from town or scum, stop fence sitting

Fence sitting is ceremoniously removed from the language of everyone in this game. If it's used again in a stupid manner like it's been used from EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO's USED IT TO THIS POINT I'll strike down upon you with great vengeance and furious anger. Test me.

[Tammy]

Yes, page top. I'm not going to bed until it's mine all mine

[Tammy]

Sorry for any excessively delayed responses, I'm currently out of town.

Just reading over everything that's happened, I'd like Ami to clarify themself on what exactly they're trying to say pertaining to Pistachio's Miller claim. Is it a CC? A hinting at it? Just trying to see how people react?

My current scumreads at this time would probably be somewhere in the block of Hiplop, Cakez, and Beeboy. I have a question for you three: What if Pistachio is shot and flips town? What does this suggest about Ami, and would that warrant an instant vote?

@the late RVS matter, I can only be around early morning and laaate evening for this week. Sorry about that.

*TWITCH

TWITCH

TWITCHTIWITCHTQITCHTWITCHTWITCHTWITCH*

[Tammy]

There's fact proving its wrong. I mean sure you can say it's useless to argue about, but if you did any back ground digging on me or even read the sign up thread I made a public announcement to both the playlist and the mod about how my posting will be and why.

~M

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tammy]

Hmm good morning's posts look 10 times better than mala's which is weird.

Nacho when you get here talk to me please?

[Tammy]

I still want actual scum hunting from your slot which you STILL haven't delivered on.

STOP EXAGGERATING.

[Tammy]

Hmmm I have some reads, but I'm going to hold on to a few until I'm both sober and awake.

(Bb it's cool. Though I do think it's funny that more people can't gauge who I'm actually gearing up to vote.)

Also going to hold my vote ooooh noooooo woooooo ahhhhhhhhhh

[Tammy]

@cakes
What do you mean fence sitting? Fence sitting is when I don't take a stance on a popular wagon with lots of info. Sakura isnt a popular wagon nor is there any solid alignment indicative posts from her yet.

Yes a lot of my posts are about Seniors but that is a fallacy because of my post count
.

Since when is that fence sitting?
You're waffling everywhere on Sakura.

Why is waffling a problem?

It's an out for scum changing reads to fit the game state better. And it shows no conviction in reads which is another scum sign.

How many games have you played?

[Tammy]

My reservations were to do with his push on Sakura who I was not reading as scum. I did not expect him to back off so quickly but when he did I was more inclined to read him as town, as scum-beeboy had no reason to back off unless he was town and open to changing reads. Thus the sheep. Along with my own read on Seniors anyway.

That's not what I'm referring to.
I'm referring to how you said "I'm withholding my vote for now" then immediately voted in your next post.

Why is this problematic?

And can people stop acting like shit is scummy that isn't, you're making my head explode.

It's backtracking. Why even say that in the first place if he was going to dump a vote two posts later?

You're positing his big scum plan was to say he wasn't putting a vote down and then 8 minutes later coming back to the thread and voting?

How is that even backtracking? Why does that make him scum?

[Tammy]

Hi Tammy! Good to see you are town this game.

Beeboy, Tammy has a good point in 566. I take her questioning as trying to see if there is something in your read that just isn't coming across to the rest of us.

(this is through the bottom of page 23)

Hi skybird! I'm pretty happy about it myself

[Tammy]

@Tammy: I can't address all of your questions because I'm not Mala, but here are the ones I can:

I think I need to go back and skim a quick Sakura game. I /may/ have forgotten how she plays. I just think it's odd that she's going to sort Nacho part of your hydra, but it doesn't seem like she has engaged him /yet/.

~M

I feel like I'm harping here, but I really want you to explain *why* it's odd she wants to sort nacho.

I think it was more meant, "It's weird that she says she wants to sort Nacho but hasn't really put action to word."

Well she got after her for the rvs post in which she said she wanted to sort nacho, that's the big one I want answered. She did ask him a question, but what kind of engagement was she supposed to do when he hadn't even really posted yet?

I have a huge problem with you you saying you where scum reading him yesterday when that post above is the only thing that indicated you had a scum read on mirhawk. It is a blatant scum tell to pull stuff like that to justify your vote and it really bothers me which is why I have trouble seeing you flip town this game.

Nope, GM and I were discussing reads. I had a slight town read off pages 1-5 from Mirhawk, but I said I was holding off before saying it in thread and GM said she disagreed with me on it.

I think you're misrepping me pretty bad though. I am not fabricating my scum read on him. My read changed from early pages to his current posting so I'm failing to see how I'm justifying my read on him when it obviously changed from when I caught up after work and when I went to bed yesterday. I haven't had time to talk to GM today so I'm not sure if she's caught up or where she stands.

~M

Where did the misreported occur?

That quote was so broken.

It's the "you say you were scumreading him yesterday" from beeboy, when in actual fact, she said that

I

was scumreading him yesterday and that she was townreading him.

Surely that one was obvious?[/quote]

Nope it's not obvious at all. I still don't understand your explanation because that doesn't seem to be what was going on. And if that is the case, does that really warrant a "misrepping really bad" accusation?

So, yeah pretend I'm five and dumb and re explain it? Preferably Mala explain it?

--

Hmm good morning's posts look 10 times better than mala's which is weird.

I only have one! (well, 2 after this is posted) But OK![/quote]

Yeah, I meant that one.

[Tammy]

Hey guys I think Swordsworth should be the ultimate lynch for today

Carry on

Can you explain why? Is it just because of inactivity and

....What if Pistachio is shot and flips town? What does this suggest about Ami, and would that warrant an instant vote?

467 in general is just really awful

It has nothing to do with the activity

Do you feel differently?

I agree that it's pretty bad, and I think it warrants suspicion, but that alone isn't enough to for me to consider him my "ultimate lynch for today." It just seemed like a stretch, so I was wondering if you were seeing something I wasn't.

What do you think was bad about it?

[Tammy]

My reservations were to do with his push on Sakura who I was not reading as scum. I did not expect him to back off so quickly but when he did I was more inclined to read him as town, as scum-beeboy had no reason to back off unless he was town and open to changing reads. Thus the sheep. Along with my own read on Seniors anyway.

That's not what I'm referring to.
I'm referring to how you said "I'm withholding my vote for now" then immediately voted in your next post.

Why is this problematic?

And can people stop acting like shit is scummy that isn't, you're making my head explode.

It's backtracking. Why even say that in the first place if he was going to dump a vote two posts later?

You're positing his big scum plan was to say he wasn't putting a vote down and then 8 minutes later coming back to the thread and voting?

How is that even backtracking? Why does that make him scum?

No I'm saying it looks like trying to blend in after realizing his initial "not voting" thing sucked. And that I'd backtracking.
I've completed like 10 or so games onsite now? That's just a guess from memory. I've also played like 20 off site.

You think he, as scum, purposefully said he wasn't voting, didn't realize it at the time, posted then a few minutes later went shit I should blend in? You actually think that's a thought process someone has? I still don't get why it's backtracking. Why is no voting shitty in the first place and why can't he have simply changed his mind?

You have more than five games to your repertoire and you're actually trying to argue the waffling is a scum tell thing?

[Tammy]

I don't know Tammy. I haven't played with Sakura in a very long time, but I don't ever remember her right in the beginning going 'I need to sort nacho out asap'. I remember other players doing that, but her? Never. It just seemed off to me.

I really don't see how you're not understanding where Beeboy misunderstood my post. I don't like beeboys overall switching to whoever doesn't agree with him must be scum mindset. He's done it with me and he's done it with others. I was town reading Mirhawk in the early start of the game, then after the whole miller thing his response, his fence sit was terrible so I started pushing it. That's where Beeboy said I was fabricating a read on Mirhawk, but I wasn't. How am I fabricating a read when my initial read on Mirhawk was town, but my ending read was scum. It's called the progression of the game, scum hunting is another word for it. So the fact he took to say I was fabricating a read when I wasn't is in fact a misstep.

~M

I have to agree with not liking FS last post though. /:

Sakura wanting to sort nacho first thing is pretty standard. Part of what I don't get is why you pointed out he hadn't done anything out of the ordinary yet when he hadn't even come close to posting anything alignment indicative yet. I also don't understand why you'd want to get in the middle of someone else's sorting process.

I agree that bee boy's tendency to do that is annoying. How come his question to you isn't him scum hunting? I just don't get why the response was an immediate "you're misrepping me!"

[Tammy]

Is it me or am I failing to see why you're making such a big deal out of this Tammy. /:

Which one?

[Tammy]

And is questioning you about something really making a big deal about something? Why are you over exaggerating everything?

[Tammy]

You already said it yourself that you're harping on the subject. So I fail to see how I'm exaggerating anything.

Like I already answeeeed it all, but not sure what you're expecting me to say that's different than the other few times I explained it.

As I said it felt out of place for Sakura, but I already admitted that I haven't played with her in a while? Idk sometime last summer if that?? Like it felt our of place for her to focus on nacho, but that's something I'd expect like Notty to do, or Mollie.

As for nacho I still fail to see why this is such a big deal. If he made a post that was alignment indicative I would have said it, but he didn't

I feel like I'm harping because it's a sticking point for me and I asked you twice about it. Trying to understand why on something is not making a really big deal out of it just like someone perhaps misinterpreting you is not a really big misrep.

Where were the few times you explained it? Pretty sure you answered and I responded. I haven't played much with Sakura either, but her wanting to sort nacho right away is standard. If you haven't played with someone I don't know why it would even spark your notice. Furthermore, you pointing out that nothing was out of the ordinary when he hadn't posted beyond a couple rvs posts feels off.

Right now my concern is that you are either scum with nacho and you did some early discrediting to stop someone from sorting him or you're scum trying to get on his good side.

You being exaggerative when people question you doesn't help that concern.

[Tammy]

I eagerly await your omgus and further exaggerations though!

[Tammy]

Sorry for any excessively delayed responses, I'm currently out of town.

Just reading over everything that's happened, I'd like Ami to clarify themself on what exactly they're trying to say pertaining to Pistachio's Miller claim. Is it a CC? A hinting at it? Just trying to see how people react?

My current scumreads at this time would probably be somewhere in the block of Hiplop, Cakez, and Beeboy. I have a question for you three: What if Pistachio is shot and flips town? What does this suggest about Ami, and would that warrant an instant vote?

@the late RVS matter, I can only be around early morning and laaate evening for this week. Sorry about that.

What I didn't like about the post was explaining why he wasn't in rvs and apologizing for it.

[Tammy]

I don't really care abut the miller claim and counter claim thing right now. I'm sure I'll go back to it at some point though!

[Tammy]

That's an adorable post. I was leaning town on you from the counterclaim though! Just didn't really care about the rest right now.

To amihan.

[Tammy]

I eagerly await your omgus and further exaggerations though!

I have so many problems with this.

So many problems.

I don't really know if I can articulate them well, but they boil down to: 1. we are not omgusing by any stretch of the imagination and to use a phrase both inflammatory and inaccurate to describe our play is Not Good; 2. you are acting like you've never played with Mala before which is not even slightly the case.

I'm not going to pretend I have a very good handle on your play, because I don't, but it's problematic to me that you seem to be pressing your advantage like you're on the other side of the net.

How's this again? My response was a bit snarky sure, but considering you haven't omgus'd I wasn't describing your play up until that point but was a bit venting my frustration with mala's response and what felt like to me I'd get in response. I don't think that my questions to her were rude in any way. This is a mafia game after all, but what I do get from you guys, even here whoa with the exaggerations batman, is expressions that I should understand something that was not clear or I wouldn't have asked and a claim that I'm making a "really big deal" out of something I asked a couple questions about and was trying to understand.

Where am I acting like I haven't played with Mala again?

I don't play volleyball there sorry champ care to suggest a game I do play? Or slow it down on the sugar or caffeine or whatever is causing this hyperbole station?

[Tammy]

Hey Nacho,

thoughts on FS and Mirhawk and tammy please

~M

yayayay

Does this mean that you're final admitting you really don't know how to read me after?

(Not being bitchy, this really does make me happy. It's a lot lot lot easier to deal with someone suspecting you when they admit they can't really read you than when they think they can and you're as town as you can be and you're dealing with suspicion.)

I feel zippidy doo dah!

I'll respond to your post later. In the middle of something right now. But I do want to ask why you thought I was scum reading the Pied Piper?

[Tammy]

MEOW KITTY BACK DOWN.

I have no idea what you're problem is but sure I'll be happy not to interact with you or your hyperbolic frustrated other head the whole game. I don't need to. Won't make the mistake of asking you a question again because apparently you're allowed to constantly hound me in games and nitpick all over the place but I'm not allowed to ask you a couple questions to try to get at your mindset.

WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

[Tammy]

*For the over exaggerative hyper other head of Wrong Lynch.

Please note I am not inflammatorily or flagrantly whatever their play when I say Mala hounds and nitpicks me in games nor am I suggesting she has done so in this game. This is referring to past experience NOT this game. Just so everyone is clear.

I despise the way mala is interacting with me this game because I don't think it's fair she can behave however she wants to me and I'm supposed to tip toe around her apparently and can't ask a couple questions without her getting made, but I'm stepping out of this conversation because it's not conducive to anything and will probably just result in anything I say being inflammatory even when it's not meant to be.

[Tammy]

The past two games we've played together (one just a couple months ago!) you were scum and buddied me both times. In the second one (just a couple months ago) when I started suspecting you because you gave me a too easy town read that was baseless you got frustrated and took the town read away.

Let's just not interact? K? We apparently can't interact very well. I thought I asked you reasonable questions in my attempt to understand you and get a read on you but you just got frustrated that I apparently dared to ask you questions. Which I do not think is fair at all considering the way you have treated me in games.

But it's cool. I don't need to interact with you to get a read on you. And the game sure as shit doesn't need an argument, so!

[Tammy]

Oh but I will say this. I don't have a scum read on Pied Piper and I never said I did. My vote is on my rvs vote because I haven't decided where I want to move it to. Which I stated when I said I was withholding my vote for now Saturday morning.

Since your hydra partner threw the stupid accusation of me not recognizing that you were emotional or exaggerative as me pretending that I've never played with you which is so fucking what the fuck but whatever! Why are you pretending you've never played with me, since it's something you know that is pretty standard.

No need to respond! Just some food for thought.

[Tammy]

But yeah Tammy talk to GM because this whole game I didn't feel like you were interacting with me tbh. I felt you were nitpicking everything that I was posting which is kinda getting me annoyed. You were absent and then you started after me re: Sakura/Nacho and then when I stopped posting you picked to what seemed to be a fight with Beeboy.

I'll try to tone down myself more so with you than anyone else because you seem to be the only one I'm butting heads with.

~M

Asking you questions and pointing out some things I didn't like isn't nitpicking. And how can you think I wasn't interacting with you when I was asking you direct questions and then when you responded I responded back? I also wasn't "getting after you", I was asking you a question. I didn't know why you zeroed in on the sakura thing and it felt weird to me. And it felt off that you seemed to discredit her sort when you said there wasn't anything out of the ordinary that nacho had posted yet, like she couldn't make sorting him a priority. It felt wrong because you yourself have people that you like to sort immediately, so you seeming to shut someone else down felt wrong. I also didn't pick a fight with bee boy.

But here's the thing, you use this type of language with me. You feel perfectly fine coming after me, accusing me of picking a fight, making a big deal about something when they're simple questions and all of a sudden get annoyed because I ask you questions. But you feel perfectly fine to scum hunt me. I'm just never allowed to scum hunt you because you get after me every time I ask you a question. You accusing me of "picking a fight" is the kind of thing you do to me that I don't see you do to anyone else. Maybe it's just me, and I don't know when you started having a problem with me but it's not fair that you can scum hunt me and I'm not allowed to scum hunt you.

[Tammy]

No he obviously did realize it, and then decided it looked bad and backtracked on it two posts later. Yeah that's a thought process people have, I've done it before as scum.
No voting there sucks because there was definitely enough to make scumreads from at that point. He didn't say anything about changing his mind until prodded pages later, he just naked voted.
Yeah I am

True Ogre said he was leaning that way and was holding his vote. bee boy then asked him to please vote seniors and he did. I don't see that as backtracking. Soemtimes people vote when people ask then to early game. He didn't change his mind pages later. bee boy asked him and he voted. You don't need to have reasons with the vote as they were in his earlier post.

Be prepared to scum read me then because I am the waffle queen.

[Tammy]

I didn't read any of the pied piper posts on the previous page. Sorry! I will read them but I don't have the mental energy for quote stripe walls at the moment.

or ever but I will read them!

[Tammy]

No he obviously did realize it, and then decided it looked bad and backtracked on it two posts later. Yeah that's a thought process people have, I've done it before as scum.
No voting there sucks because there was definitely enough to make scumreads from at that point. He didn't say anything about changing his mind until prodded pages later, he just naked voted.
Yeah I am

True Ogre said he was leaning that way and was holding his vote. bee boy then asked him to please vote seniors and he did. I don't see that as backtracking. Soemtimes people vote when people ask then to early game. He didn't change his mind pages later. bee boy asked him and he voted. You don't need to have reasons with the vote as they were in his earlier post.

Be prepared to scum read me then because I am the waffle queen.

True Ogre said he was leaning that way but had concerns because of the Sakura push, but beeboy's pedited post erased those concerns and made him more comfortable following.

That was my interpretation too! I cut off the back and forth sircakez had and I had been having because quote nesting was getting large, but I was trying to get at the heart of why cakes was accusing him of backtracking and therefore being scum due to those posts.

[Tammy]

Actually there's a bunch of stuff I've just skimmed through that I need to go back and read. I'll do that some time this week. Maybe Wednesday.

[Tammy]

[Tammy]

And if you don't like me but you like mala/gm how come you ignored me asking you to talk to me about them when I was concerned with mala?

[Tammy]

oh okay. never mind. carry on.

[Tammy]

I am prod-dodging! See you tomorrow!

[Tammy]

I was a big, fat liar when I said I'd get here yesterday. Slight possibility you'll see me today, otherwise pinky promises tomorrow.

[Tammy]

I'm enacting skim the game agogo and then I'll go back and read the quote stripes later

maybe

and look back and stuff I've been ignoring (this is more likely than the quote stripe reading :/)

You really do need to listen to the people who have played with me before. Not that one vote really matters that much, but wasted effort that doesn't go into finding scum becomes harmful after a point.

In separate news, I'm not seeing anything town from Dramonic. Is this normal for him?
<hint for Mirhawk -- which alignment DOESNT KNOW the other person's alignment, so has to ask questions?>

BTW, I agree with your position on Swordsworth. Given a choice between a flip that yields information and one that doesn't, the information is more important early game. If we need to PL lurkers it can be done later in the game if/when we run out of useful PR results, if any. (this may change if we reach deadline though)

Pedit: the above in reply to Mirhawk.

Sakura & Speffeh -- Hopefully Swords will start posting after V/LA, and it would not surprise me for it to be an easy sort when he does.

Anyway, I remember being suspicious of dave early on. I like this post though so my early suspicions might be off base.

[Tammy]

Currently Mirhawk because his reactions to Ami's Miller CC was very questionable, felt like he knew it was fake, and then I really don't like his dave push.

It WAS fake.

How would scum be any more or less likely to know this then town?

Literally the only way for any reasoning following this line of thought to work is for Ami to also be scum.

You're on the scum team, Pistach isn't, someone CCs a Miller claim that third-party doesn't make. Boom you know it's fake.

This makes absolutely no sense at all.

[Tammy]

This whole argument with mirhawk being scum because he knew ami was lying is like wtf are you people serious.

Does anyone have anything better than this for reading him as scum because like really people?

I'm actually really serious. Those who want to lynch him, can you tell me why he's scum without referencing the miller thing? Please and thank you.

[Tammy]

I am town! Aren't you lucky

I have some issues with the mirhawk thing that I'll talk about when I catch up.

Nope can't give that. I have you as probably town and that's about it. I'm about 20 pages behind, so you'll have to wait.

[Tammy]

Eh.

(And I don't even like sircakez that much.)

Why not?

Remind me to answer this when i've caught up.

Where were the few times you explained it? Pretty sure you answered and I responded. I haven't played much with Sakura either, but her wanting to sort nacho right away is standard. If you haven't played with someone I don't know why it would even spark your notice. Furthermore, you pointing out that nothing was out of the ordinary when he hadn't posted beyond a couple rvs posts feels off.

Right now my concern is that you are either scum with nacho and you did some early discrediting to stop someone from sorting him or you're scum trying to get on his good side.

I'm not really sure I understand what point you're making here.

It seems a simpler answer to me that Mala misremembered Sakura's early approach towards me in games (which was what her initial response to you was about); if we were scum together, I think that I probably would mention to her the people who I was expecting to be specifically trying to read me, and if she was trying to get on my good side, I don't really think that it would look like this?

Saying that I hadn't done anything out of the ordinary is equivalent to me not doing anything alignment indicative which means you two are saying exactly the same thing about my early posts unless I'm missing something big.

I'm liking Amihan's latest posts a lot for weird reasoning I can't quite articulate now, but I'll try again tomorrow.

No, it had nothing to do with you doing anything alignment non-indicative. Seeing that mala has people that she herself focuses on early game, it felt off that she attacked someone else for wanting to sort someone. Her attack on her in the way she did it didn't feel like it was used to sort Sakura at all (why would she, if she hasn't played with Sakura, think it's odd that she wanted to sort you anyway?) Then she stepped in the midst of Sakura's sort by telling her you hadn't done anything out of the ordinary. It just did not feel right.

Do you like amihan's posting because you want to give her a hug for being adorable? That's why I was town reading her.

Hey Nacho,

thoughts on FS and Mirhawk and tammy please

~M

I'm not really sure on FS, but I'm leaning town there on the moment based on some of EP's posting.
Mirhawk seems scummy to me.
Tammy's town.

You got it so quickly! I was going to offer you promises on Monday, but then the past couple times I appealed to you early game you ended up being scum and I didn't want to jinx it which I hope I'm not doing now. :/

[Tammy]

The most active player is always going to get a favorable nod, and I liked his early enthusiasm.

Yuck

Wait wtf I missed this
This is a terrible town tell from Axel

Your scum tells backtrack, waffling and fencesit are calling.

[Tammy]

First a catchup and then I'll do the plot thing

849: I don't see a problem with this progression but goddamn if you think that cakez, beeboy, and we are scum then you got another thing coming

oh damn cerb's in this game! hi cerb!
ok I'm glad that I can write spiffeh as town and accept that

Axel might be town for that readswall as well, 904.
But the whole "active players get towncred" is kinda wtf

Cerb you should interact with people about other things than mirhawk, yeah?
why aren't you doing that?

I will say I think the "EP" head sounds better than the "Hippy" head? At least, as best I can tell, I think most of the posts I don't like seem to be coming from that one, but that could just be the one head not being as good at being scum as the one head just being more Townie. And even the EP head appears to have defaulted to a "Sheep" vote behind another player, so that's not particularly great either.

OK NEVER MIND
WHAT THE FUCK DUDE YOU EXPECT US TO JUST PUSH RANDOM VANITY WAGONS ARE YOU KIDDING OF COURSE I'M GOING TO SHEEP SOMEONE IF THEY'RE SCUMMY HOW DID NO ONE ELSE CATCH THIS
And yeah if you actually wanted to evaluate your reads (as town would do) you wouldn't say "Hey, EP is better but that could be because EP is better as scum" you would say "Hey, how does hiplop play as scum? Is it usually like this?"
The fact that you didn't ask this question means that you're
1. Finding reasons to scum read us that aren't legit
2. Not actually evaluating these reasons because you don't CARE how legit your read is as long as they make your case look good
So yeah, take that previous townread and toss that one in the trash

Why is Swords a bad lynch?

862

also this is terrible
if you think someone is legitimately scum then you go for it, that's the best case scenario, not "lynching someone you kinda think is scum but hoping for that information"
this is a horrible reason to defend swordsworth and the accusations

I thought that explained it pretty solidly. You didn't?

I...guess?
I mean, maybe it's just a playstyle clash
I feel like no matter how many times ogre explains it you know

Repeating question since I didn't see much response to it. I think Dramonic is scum flying under the radar, but I don't know if this is normal for him.

AGAIN
WHY DON'T YOU FIGURE IT OUT BEFORE SCUMREADING PEOPLE?
WHAT

I think it's notable how Dram pops back up the instant he gets a few votes on him.

oh my god
this can't be real

VOTE: Axelrod
dramonic is your vote on axel because if so good

-EP

[Tammy]

Someone talk to me so I don't have to do my homework

Please do your homework

[Tammy]

Um I was trying to get you to cut through the shit so I could get at your actual read and determine whether or not to take you seriously. Why would you be underwhelmed by me? Unless you're an alt, you don't have any completed games with me and therefore shouldn't have expectations that I'm failing to meet. Besides that I feel pretty damn good here so hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go.

[Tammy]

You have more than five games to your repertoire and you're actually trying to argue the waffling is a scum tell thing?

How is that unbelieable to you?
Waffling isn't a strong tell, but it is a tell and it's a pretty commonly used one.

It's a terrible tell in and of itself because while scum may waffle, waffling is more often a personality trait and since town don't know shit they often don't know shit and therefore "waffle".

The reason why it's been problematic when it's been used by the likes of sircakez and mala is because it's akin to throwing buzzwords at posts and people to make it look like you're scum hunting when you're actually not. It's very easy to just throw around this shit because you look involved, but I don't trust anyone with any modicum of experience in this game to actually use waffling, backtracking or fencesitting as a scum tell without actually trying to figure out if it comes from scum or town.

When people waffle there's always a reason. Now for instance in the case of this here:

That reads to me as a CC, so yes your fence sit is pretty bad.
~M

It reads to me as an implied CC without explicitly stating that she is indeed a miller.
How is my fence "pretty bad" anyways? That's pretty vague.

I'm not sure how if she doesn't believe that Ami cc'd,

but is willing to jump onto the building train that was happening that early page on.

I'm certainly a lot more sure of Mirhawk being scum than I was when I was reading early yesterday.

~M

?

Because obviously you voted after the CC when the wagon was growing.
Then shortly after you said you wanted her to CC, but was still voting. It felt as if you were leaving your options open which is a hugeeeeeee fencesit.

~M

The reason I hate this is because why can't this come from him as town. When I read it I didn't take it as a for gospel counter claim. What is his scum motivation here to fencesit? If both pistachio and ami are town, then mirhawk has absolutely no way of knowing if one is a miller or if one is a counter claimer no matter his alignment, so what is his scum agenda with the fence sit? What is he gaining here?

I see no gain whatsoever, therefore calling him scum because of the fencesit, when it's something he can't know, is bogus and looks like flinging mud to use a buzzword without digging.

I have a similar problem with sircakez's accusations to beeboy and trueogre. Sircakez gave a blanket backtracking scum read on true ogre for very little (I think he's said he feels better about him now, so) but it felt like throwing a buzzword to make it look like scum hunting. This has been discussed a lot so I'm not going to requote it, but the waffling accusation to beeboy also made me frown. And he justifies his issue with beeboy voting and unvoting in too few posts but he's not actually looking at the conversation that took place to see if it makes sense. Therefore again it feels like buzzword throwing rather than actual scum hunting.

When you also throw in that he's defending people based on play in previous games, I'd expect a depth of reads that isn't showing through the waffling accusations. If you're going to use waffling, fence sitting, or backtracking as your reasoning for scum reading someone then you should be digging deeper to see if it's coming from town who just don't know shit.

Oh hey pied piper, I guess that answers my big problem with cakez I said I'd get to.

[Tammy]

Um I was trying to get you to cut through the shit so I could get at your actual read and determine whether or not to take you seriously. Why would you be underwhelmed by me? Unless you're an alt, you don't have any completed games with me and therefore shouldn't have expectations that I'm failing to meet. Besides that I feel pretty damn good here so hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go.

The fact that you pushed me when you did not even say I was scum instead of pushing literally anyone else was what I found underwhelming. I also find that for large periods of time you limit you interactions with specific people which is underwhelming. I also read a lot of your longer posts but they just felt like really long winded away of getting a cross a simple post so I feel like the word count in your ISO is misleading. Underwhelming has literally nothing to with meta, I find people I have never played with underwhelming all the time.
Although to be fair after rethinking things I definitely don't think you are town but I couldn't put my finger on why I exactly think you are scum so you are nullish.

Are you following what I mean now, if you are town it is important we are on the same page?

Why would I call you scum when I was trying to figure you out and get you to cut through the shit so I could determine what your read on FS was all about? Interacting with someone and pressuring them isn't always about proving their scum but is about getting a handle on them and the game. I interact with who sticks out to me when I'm going through stuff.

What would my writing style have to do with anything?

I'm not sure what you're asking in the last question. Are you asking me if it's important if we're on the same page if I'm town or are you saying it's important we're on the same page?

[Tammy]

Um I was trying to get you to cut through the shit so I could get at your actual read

You keep bringing up how you don't want to read through long posts but I find all of your long posts to just be big short posts and it is the same thing I am cutting through shit to understand your point.
Maybe this is a play style thing I don't know if you always make long posts to prove your points meta would actually help me approach my read on you here. It is just without that meta all I see is an incredibly odd double standard that pushes an agenda that allows you to coast.

I think you misunderstand me completely. Your early game that I was getting after you for and trying to get you to stop was your noise. You were loudly declaring that FS were scum for very slim reasons, some of which were not scummy at all. I needed you to stop with the bullshit, so that I could get a read on you and try to determine where you were coming from on FS.

I directly engaged you with what I wanted you to stop doing.

What you're doing here is I have no clue. If you are trying to find a point that you think I'm not making clear enough, then engage with that particular point and ask me to clarify. What you're doing here just feels like you're trying to criticize me and put me down for my writing style or my thoughts and saying they're not good enough. But you're being vague and I don't know what you're referring to.

What is this double standard that allows me to coast? What???

[Tammy]

Tammy help what do I do

Your homework!!!

If it's game related, a specific question might help? Although I'm getting ready to step out and run some errands, but I'll be back in a few hours

[Tammy]

Why would I call you scum when I was trying to figure you out and get you to cut through the shit so I could determine what your read on FS was all about? Interacting with someone and pressuring them isn't always about proving their scum but is about getting a handle on them and the game. I interact with who sticks out to me when I'm going through stuff.

What would my writing style have to do with anything?

I'm not sure what you're asking in the last question. Are you asking me if it's important if we're on the same page if I'm town or are you saying it's important we're on the same page?

If you disagreed with my how I was approaching the game why wouldn't I have the expectation you would scum read me?
Why not react to early posts in the game that are scummy instead of reacting to me?

It feels like overall safe play I don't see the reason for town to not want to pressure someone with a vote but I can see why scum wouldn't want to as negative interaction is a lot easier to walk off then a legit vote.
You keep coming up with excuses to justify why you where pressuring me and they honestly all fail to justify what you where doing.

If we are both town and do not understand each other there is a 0% chance we can work together so we will probably lose that is why getting on the same page is important.

I'm getting ready to head out so I might not answer all this very well, but if I don't I will come back to it when I get back.

I don't scumread people just because I don't like their approach to the game. I dislike people's approach to games all the time and think they're town. Hell there are people who's approach to the game I don't particularly like but respect the hell out of and when I can understand them and their approach then I have a better understanding of them and a better ability to read them.

Early game I didn't know what to think of you because your push on FS was so overblown and the reasoning did not jive with me at all. I needed to figure out if your push on them was real, fake or from scum. Were you blowing hot air or were you serious? I started to think that the push itself was genuine, but considering I did not like the reasoning, I can't buy your reads. Which is why I was trying to get you to cut through the shit of what is not scummy in a vacuum and get you to actually get at the heart of the read so that I could evaluate your read and them more fairly.

I don't have to justify anything. I've told you my motivation and it's up to you whether or not you want to disbelieve it. If you want to paint it as something other than what it is, then that's up to you. There's really not a whole lot more I can do about that, so.

[Tammy]

Soooooo I just read the latest beeboy post to me.

never mind. We're at an impasse.

see you guys later suckaz.

[Tammy]

Spiffeh talk to me when I come back. I need someone nice to talk to!

[Tammy]

I haven't even made many long posts this game, so *middle finger*, certainly not as long as I can make them! And what is putting someone down for their writing style anyway other than you just wanting to be mean.

[Tammy]

I haven't even made many long posts this game, so *middle finger*, certainly not as long as I can make them! And what is putting someone down for their writing style anyway other than you just wanting to be mean.

It could be a writing style thing, I just find that it is odd for someone with a writing style like what you are saying yours is to not want to read long posts which is what made me believe it isn't a writing style thing.
Maybe I am wrong I am not going to use that to read you but I am put in a position where I need to justify my original position and that is was doing.

I didn't mean to insult you I tend to word things poorly.

*Quote Stripes*, not long posts. And I do read them; I just can't read them when I'm reading quickly and I can't and probably won't read them all. I have a hard time following quote stripes, always have. It puts me in a disoriented state of the game where I have a hard time reading the people and following their positions. It takes me a lot longer to read and process because of that.

[Tammy]

Ranger I defended you like all game in Mafiaception lol

This is true! The way I remember that game was most everyone was town reading Ranger (I was at one point as well!), and I got a bunch of blowback from some people when I scum read her, and I don't think she would have gotten lynched if I hadn't have used my action on her that made her obvscum when her other partner got lynched.

[Tammy]

I don't think I've ever seen a town!Dramonic, but the couple times I remember seeing him as scum he was just as minimalist as he is now, but he actually tried to look like he was scum hunting, not just the blatant nothing but droning on about a couple reads he has.

Not helpful but there you go.

[Tammy]

can someone explain why they feel that way?

Not really, but I actually feel empathy for you at that point. Tammy's posting did feel like a betrayal, but there's no tangible reason for why. She's not scum, so maybe it's her pushing someone who is also clearly not scum? (beeboy.)

I was wracking my brain trying to figure out what this referred to. He was trolling me.

[Tammy]

Ranger's entrance and catch-up feels town to me.

It kinda does to me??

I don't really like the fact she put Tammy up at a top tier when she was absent for like pages at a time and before that her posts didn't really sway me either way.

Idk.

It's just feels made up

~M

What does me being gone for pages have to do with anything? And why are you acting as if you're a barometer of reading me when you have literally no idea how? And why, if you have such a problem with people coming to the correct assumption I'm town aren't you questioning anyone else on their town read, including oh you know the one you specifically asked?

Why do all your posts feel like flinging mud and sniping instead of scum hunting?

Not that I want to get into a conversation with you because holy moly but this is a further example of you being allowed to pick at me but holy shit if I question you. It is not fair or right.

~~~

That being said I was a huh when she had me as a top town read before I'd done anything besides RVS post. The last two games I played with Ranger she was scum and did reads similarly, but from what people who were defending her in machina said, this is pretty much what she does as far as reads starting from rvs. So IDK.

[Tammy]

Okay. Here's my take on Tammy.

I really liked the burst of energy and the pushes on Mala and Nacho which seemed like efforts to engage them and sort them. They were different but they were present. It also felt a little like she was posting without care for how whe was appearing to others. Now what I don't like is the periods she's been absent, and I also have a suspicion surrounding the way she directly defended my own position. Even though it was correct and I had a rise in my chest when she stated things I thought were obvious, I've seen defenses of town come from scum just as much as from town. Her defense didn't seem shady but I really want her input into the game and there's no way at this point she's untouchable town on day 1 and without seeing more of her and the way she carries herself further.

I could almost say the inverse (roughly speaking) for the Mala/GM hydra although there are a couple of more obvious pingy things that make me put them into a nullscum bracket.
(Inverse is a bad way to characterise what I've seen here by the way, but I'm trying to get across that I have similar thought patterns that end up in different conclusions, for both slots).

So that's an explanation. I don't get yours much. It seems a bit mastina-ey in that nothing's really expanded upon except for your own process, and believe me whenever she and I have played together but separately I've tried to reach out to her on that front. I want a bit more, I want some internal workings to match with my own. I'm trying to do the same here with you.

Heh, people will just have to get used to periods of absence. I'm extremely busy and M-Th are toss ups on if I have time for mafia. But I try to make up for it on the weekends when I don't have time during the week!

I didn't start out as a defense of you as I hadn't really paid much attention to your posts or what you might have been doing in the beginning. In the beginning I was trying to determine cakez and nail down that backtracking accusation. Mid-conversation I looked at what you were doing and read back to try to figure out if there was anything scummy about it and decided there wasn't.

[Tammy]

This whole argument with mirhawk being scum because he knew ami was lying is like wtf are you people serious.

Does anyone have anything better than this for reading him as scum because like really people?

I'm actually really serious. Those who want to lynch him, can you tell me why he's scum without referencing the miller thing? Please and thank you.

I was scum reading Mirhawk and had voted him before the miller thing because he was pushing on me for my early questioning. It felt like scum trying to look like scumhunting while staying off the major wagons. Then his reaction to others pushing him on miller seemed pretty genuine, and I don't really like those knee-jerk "ooh, he knew too much so it's a scumslip" kind of cases. I'd be willing to compromise there as we get closer to deadline but have my doubts.

I liked his early push of you though because I was suspicious of you based on your thing with axel and the hydras. I don't think that staying off the major wagons so early in the game is a reliable tell. Wagons don't typically go through that early anyway, and there are people like me who exist who don't even pay attention to who early wagons are and just pick up on a thread that interests them.

I just don't get the mirhawk hate.

~~~

Nacho when you get back into the game can you please talk to me about this one? IIRC from skimming your quote stripe you've got him as scum. I dunno why?

[Tammy]

I speak as the obvscum he caught in Mafiaception.

this is wrong. Spiffeh hard defended you all game? You might remember a certain friendless senior caught you.

AHEM

[Tammy]

spiffeh you're kinda null to me but EP is townreading you. Even when you're scum, I'm always willing to work with you spiff

Eh

[Tammy]

When you say quote stripes do you mean the multi quote of a lot of posts, or snipping a big post into smaller bits to respond to them, or big pyramids of quotes instead of responding to the latest?

Big pyramids of quotes are annoying to read because they are cluttery, but they're less disorienting.

The other two are what I'm referring to. Snipping a big post into smaller bits to respond to them always has me going back and double checking who the heck they are referring to and sometimes it feels like it's several people, though that is the less disorienting of them.

The most disorienting is the long quote stripe replies with just a sentence or question to them. Some people are worse than others at them because some people just respond to too much stuff that isn't geared to any real purpose and the disorienting effect is really bad, but others just take me a while to get at the point being made.

[Tammy]

All right, I still feel like I'm missing a decent chunk of the game but I guess it could be just names that didn't signal with me while reading.

Town reads I feel pretty decent about right now of varying degrees: beeboy, true ogre, davesaz, amihan, spiffeh...you know the easy ones! Pied Piper might be here if I read their posts more (I will I promise, sorry guys!)

Everyone else has a post or two I liked but I'm left without a strong scum read right now, yes on page 62 suck it. I guess the closest I'd come is Friendless Seniors, but I somewhat like a little bit hiplop's posts but gods do I dislike pretty much every post I've read of EP. I'll probably end up voting there just because all the cool kids are doing it. Actually I don't know who's doing it, I just think EP's posts sound so fake and what that yeah I'd probably be cool going there.

I don't understand the mirhawk hate. Like every single post that has been made against him concerning the miller claim thing is just so extraordinarily hate hate kill kill that I'm having a hard time taking it seriously and want to town read him as a result. I don't see anything scummy at all concerning his treatment of the miller/miller counterclaim situation, so I'm just left scratching my head at the whole thing. The lining up lynches argument is what, the fencesit argument is what, the he knew it was a fake claim argument - without actually positing that one or the other was scum - is what. I'm just a big ball of what. If he's scum it's not for any of the reason posited so far.

I'm completely up in the air about skybird. I do think spiffeh's town so I'm his read a bit more seriously, but that's pretty much the only person I'm taking seriously on skybird. My problem here is that I've only seen her scum once, and I think given some more time and posting from her that I'd be able to figure it out, but she is such easy lynchbait. I think people find her scummy in most of her games. In smite, I had her as town and I think I had to argue with people the entire game because she read really town to me but her play comes across as scummy to people. So things like her saying she's not good at this game but enjoys playing it doesn't read at all to me like flippant scum who's just trying to not be scum read. That being said there's a lack of a certain oomph here. I don't know how to explain that though.

I'm surprised that sircakez is town reading me as I thought I'd be his bread and butter for a scum read. So, I'm just not sure what to do with that.

Not sure what to do with Ranger either. I do believe Ranger that this type of posting is typical for her regardless of alignment, and in the past couple games I've played with her in which she was scum she looked relatively town to me until a point where I was like eh wait. I actually don't have a problem with the rvs reads posting as from what I gather that's her thing. And considering that the last two times I've played with her she's been scum and had me as a town read and as a scum read, I don't think that she has me as someone she thinks she has to town read. Also, contrary to some people's opinions I think when I actually did start posting, I was pretty town. Biased read I know but I know what makes me town, so. The two top scum reads for the ones she has are convenient only if they are both town. Actually this isn't fair, what I'm trying to say is that I won't be able to make a kind of determination of her reads list until we get a flip or two.

My biggest concern right now is that Ranger understood my first post to Nacho and figured out what musical I have. I'm in a quandary right now.

Oh and I have absolutely no clue what to do with TWL. There's a certain bitchy bite to mala's posts that a year or so ago I'd have probably assigned a town because she had a somewhat understated meek scum game. But she says she prefers scum now, or at least that's what she said the last time we hydrad and the past two times I saw her as scum she definitely was not a meek little mouse. But she does feel way too snippy and mudslinging than scum hunting, and while I'm used to her nitpicking, reaction testing, and thinking she can meta read people she can't, I don't remember the snippy mudslinging. Maybe I'm biased but I do not think it makes sense at all for her to make Post 659 which acknowledges that I'm going to be asking her questions and then for her to react the way she did to me actually asking the questions I asked, which I do not think were rude in any way; I didn't cross the line or nitpick in a way that was rude. Yes, I got snippy after because it's insanely frustrating for someone to react to you the way she does while thinking that it's perfectly a o fucking kay to scum hunt you in the nitpickiest manner possible. So don't know what to do here. I might not be the most objective here, but I was right on her being scum the last game we played together. Why I wanted Nacho to talk to me about this read was because he recently caught good morning in a newbie game and he was onto good morning in the wedding invitational, so even if I don't trust his ability to read malakittens early, I think he has a decent handle on how to read good morning.

[Tammy]

yay yay congratulations.

Now do something!

Also beeboy didn' tget to me for thinking you're scum, it's your other head ep that looks fake as shit with every single post he makes. You should really choose your hydra partners more wisely you know!

[Tammy]

I kinda do. Like really really do.

But I'm a bit drunk right now and I want to hold my vote until the very last minute to make it really dramatic or some shit.

Really I'm just trying to get my shit together!

[Tammy]

VOTE: sircakez

oh cake - bread and butter scum read means that I expected that I'd be the exact type of person you'd scum read.

[Tammy]

i'm going to go pass out I think

[Tammy]

I was cming in here to apologize to hippy for being bitchy but I just reread my post and I just think it's funny :p

[Tammy]

I got prodded

Sorry. I have some work to finish up and then I'll catch up.

[Tammy]

Hippy - why aren't you trying to get me to see she's like mafiaception? I was there too, scum reading her, and I'm the one who used my role to prove she was scum. Feels weird you wouldn't be pointing out the similarities to someone who actually lived the game.

That said I'd probably prefer a ranger wagon to a fa wagon. Gonna sleep on it, and yeah a claim from either would be nice. Deadline isn't too far away. I will be back in plenty of time for that. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Tammy]

One more word about where my vote is and I'm leaving it there and not moving it for the day.

I don't think that anyone with any experience at this game actually believes that because people aren't voting on a major wagon in a large theme on day one is because they are trying to force a no lynch through, especially when they say they'll be back before deadline. Therefore, it's looking a bit suspicious to me, like ogre is trying to look to proton by being tooooo concerned about the lynch. EGADS we only have 14 hours left whatever shall we dooooooooooooooo?????????

I think I like rangers last posts, but I only very quickly skimmed. I'll have to check back though, I thi she recently did the not claiming today as scum. I could totally be remembering that wrong, so don't me to this. More a reminder to myself to look back after work. Wouldn't mind a claim from friendless though!

And with that I'm off to work!

[Tammy]

*Tttttwwwwwwwwiiiiiitttttttcccccchhhhhhhh*

[Tammy]

I couldn't care less what your read on me is.

I do care that you seem to be trying to look busy right now with the oh noes people are forcing a no lynch. I know you're experienced at this game, so I don't believe for one second it's a genuine fear, I think you're trying to look busy.

I don't believe for one second you see all these people posting in the game being very aware of deadline, talking about and to the major wagons, and your big fear is we are going to no lynch. I don't believe that for a second.

And that is a pretty gross exaggeration. I am not overprinting, sure, but you have my input and a heck of enough from me to read me on. You don't need me to lead this game day one, that's never been my forte.

[Tammy]

Like true ogre a more efficient use of this "drive" to make sure a lynch went through would be to get people in the lynch you believe in, but this abstract fear or accusation of people pushing a no lynch is nothing more than busy work designed to look town.

[Tammy]

I could be a bit biased here as the last time someone accused me of trying to push a no lynch, they were scum trying to look busy and cast suspicion.

So, game related stuff instead of busy work yeah?

Oh also nice deflection when I point out my concern. Gotta love that.

Running late, gotta go. I'll be back before deadline which is tomorrow night at midnight, right? ;p

[Tammy]

I want you to be not voting a wagon which has precisely one vote with something like 12 hours to deadline.

If you haven't figured out who I am by now I'm sure it doesn't even matter but I'd usually be advocating deciding on a lych with half the dayphase through because last minute bullshit is not my favourite part of any game and especially not larges. Closest we've been to a lynch was when I just voted Ranger to L-2. Then claims and fucking bullshit like that.

If you were arguing it this way, I wouldn't be suspicious. But you're not. You're not talking about how much you hate deadline wagons or that you'd like it decided earlier. You're accusing people of trying to force a no lynch, which is something I don't believe you believe for one second, and since I don't believe you believe that I think you're trying to look busy and engaged, but it doesn't ring true.

You can want all you want about my vote but I'll move when I want to move it and not a second before.

(If you think I should have figured you out then you should have knowledge of me, and therefore would know that arguing with me about my vote or hell even talking about my vote to me isn't going to get you anyway.)

And now I really really have to go.

I have no idea what the black widow miss muffet reference is.

[Tammy]

OH NOOOOOOO DEADLINE IS SOOOOOO CLOSE.

We one wagon and l4 and one wagon at l3. We're gonna no lynch. Fuck whatever shall we do.

I'm gonna go cry and eat my tuffet

[Tammy]

Tammys 1997 was fucking horrible, and if she doesn't show up before the end of the day to do something I'm absolutely going to scumread her.

Oh no whatever shall I do??????

[Tammy]

shes been weirdly absent. And something about her posts are just...less towmmy than I'm used to

She's the one i'm least sure of, fwiw.

pedit: #CerbToVoteNoLynch

Have I really? You've played with me for what almost every game I've played in for the past year and my activity is exactly this.

Tell me more about how it's weirdly absent.

Also stop trying to take the credit for catching ranger in mafiaception when I'm the one who ensured she was busted.

[Tammy]

Oh no whatever shall I do??????

Anything other than what you've been doing so far would be nice.

Bite me.

[Tammy]

Tammy vote for Ranger pls

Probably voting fs if they want to pull this bullshit.

[Tammy]

Hi plop is literally lying about weirdly absent bullshit.

[Tammy]

No you won't be because there is no time to get a lynch on them

Why'd the wagon fall apart?

[Tammy]

Hey hiplop you're around right? You don't want to face me with your lying bullshit?

[Tammy]

Omg there's not going to be a no lynch for fucks sake.

Fruit vendor is confirm able but is not alignment relevant.

[Tammy]

I don't much like to tag. He only had one part of one post I don't like. His quote stripes are the full kind that comment on irrelevant stuff for the most part.

[Tammy]

*tictac

[Tammy]

I don't necessarily disagree with his assessment

You seem more absent than usual

Which isn't a bad thing nor do I think it's scummy

I just don't agree with the conclusion he draws from it

PEdit: Tammy go look at the FS wagon and tell me all the people you're comfortable with on it

No, not really.

[Tammy]

Scum Fruit Vendors aren't exactly common.

Neither are scum millers but tarot card urge as hell was almost lost to a scum miller. Look at freaking play. Feds.

That reminds me did he friendly little miller ever claim his flavor?

[Tammy]

Omg there's not going to be a no lynch for fucks sake.

Fruit vendor is confirm able but is not alignment relevant.

that's what I was thinking. I don't really understand why people are just jumping off because it's confirmable. That's why that claim is an easy safe one to make because it might be confirmable for the role, but not for the alignment. Scum vendors and town vendors are both things.

-m

Yeah. Also I saw your reach out *hugs* and let's shake paws

[Tammy]

I thought that nacho's point about it being weird that axel hadn't interacted with him was pretty decent. (If mil remembering that. If he didn't actually say that then it was my own point that I thought and never vocalized and am thus agreeing it was good. He had a couple good posts though that I liked)

[Tammy]

You guys do realize there's three hours until deadline so your no lynch Arabia is silly.

[Tammy]

*paranoiay

[Tammy]

So Mala you'd prefer a no lynch?

THERES NOT GOING TO BE A NO LYNCH. FOR FUCKS SAKE

[Tammy]

I kinda want to lynch ranger right now just because Mala said she doesn't want to hammer her without a claim because it feels like the same thing she did with Thor in team mafia when they were partners.

[Tammy]

shes been weirdly absent. And something about her posts are just...less towmmy than I'm used to

She's the one i'm least sure of, fwiw.

pedit: #CerbToVoteNoLynch

Have I really? You've played with me for what almost every game I've played in for the past year and my activity is exactly this.

Tell me more about how it's weirdly absent.

Also stop trying to take the credit for catching ranger in mafiaception when I'm the one who ensured she was busted.

you're right it was all you I did nothing. take your little victory.

Absent in activity and thingness. You've done less than I'd expect you to. I respect you a lot. This isn't the sort of play I'd expect from town tammy, for example.

tammy do you think I'd fakeclaim fruit vendor

because I wouldn't

Considering I am town and this is my town play, sorry to disappoint I guess.

Didn't suggest you were fake claiming. Fruit vendor does not have to be a town role.

[Tammy]

Also, don't get too bigheaded. You're not my strongest scumread. That privilege belongs to Cakez.

And this here, if cakes is indeed scum, is the only criticism I will take for my play today. I still have cakes as a top scum read but didn't have the time to make it viable after it fell apart.

[Tammy]

I wasn't really liking ranger before, but after talking to ploti and nacho I was liking the posts.

Also wow tammy please I was obv scum there and I panicked, but I don't make silly mistakes twice.

fake paranoia feels fake.

Qua? You see that I've pointed out that ranger, as scum, has gone the refuse to claim thing before. She agrees she did it, and you say you'll refuse to hammer because it's without a claim and me seeing something that is reminiscent of how you previously treated your partner is fake paranoia?

Tell me more.

[Tammy]

Considering I am town and this is my town play, sorry to disappoint I guess.Didn't suggest you were fake claiming. Fruit vendor does not have to be a town role.

Post more. I'll sort you. Why are you so hung up over a tiny read

Because I have to decide between you and ranger to place my vote and if you're listing nonsense nullshit that looks like a lie to me, I'm voting you.

[Tammy]

NOBODY IS SAYING ITS A FAKECLAIM. THEYRE SAYING IT FOESNT HAVE TO BE A TOWN ROLE. FFS

[Tammy]

Is there something wrong with convenience? Are you suggesting I should be putting my efforts into my scumreads that are hardest to get agreement on.

Why are you even focusing on this, it has nothing to do with what's currently going on.

Yes it's called opportunistic. It's easy as a scum cover because you can grow a wagon and go "oh i'm going to hop on it because I was scum reading them, but i had no support now".

That's the reason why I'm focusing on this because these are the things I can put into words why I feel you are scummy is when you do things like this.

-m

This is bullshit though and you know this.

[Tammy]

Mala in your limited time here, why aren't you trying to read or talk about the viable wagons?

[Tammy]

I also selfishly kinda want to lynch ranger to sort out my sir cakes read because her sticking him in the top tier feels like what she did with bbmolla and lld, but some other posting feels townish and I was hoping nacho would pop back up and talk about ranger

[Tammy]

So, the thing that bothers me about the refusal to claim is that town does it too, but if ranger were town with a claim that would lose its usefulness then I would expect something to that effect. Like, if I claim then, blah blah blah, but it was just I won't claim no matter what.

[Tammy]

ranger did that exact thing in mafiaception

and another game I don't want to talk about

I thought it was machina mafia but yeah she admitted to doing it as scum.

[Tammy]

I will be here until deadline so don't freak out about a possible no lynch!

[Tammy]

<3

[Tammy]

I still like all the town reads I mentioned earlier. My blip about true ogre was a bit eased by his "my personal hell" comments but I stand by the complaints about a no lynch. It was never going to happen.

Pistachios needs to claim his flavor for being a miller and it bugs me that he was like I've never seen a miller claim flavor before so he wasn't. I don't remember seeing any posts that I thought were super likely town from him, but don't really remember posts anyway. Regardless, don't write someone off as town simply because they claim miller.

[Tammy]

I still like my sir cakes scum read, and will especially so if ranger flips scum, but this is a read I don't hold toooo much stock in because I'm not completely caught up so I don't know if he did something townie and day one is not my strongest day at all. Also if Ranger is scum then my gut scum read on her predecessor is about all I expect to get right on day one, so there is that.

Oh I liked Axel's post about being able to suss out bogus claims. Not really alignment indicative but I liked it.

Not a big fan of tic tac.

Don't like mala's recent push on mirhawk about him not pushing her or only pushing when it's convenient and that it's somehow scummy for him to be pushing a different scum read because it's viable. Mala has been playing this game long enough to know that this is exactly how the game is played. You can't always get your top scum lynch, and when it's not viable at all you have to be pragmatic and do what can actually be done in the game. She knows that, so it is complete bullshit.

[Tammy]

I'm a big ol jerk and I have not read Pied Piper's posts with any sense of depth. (I'm really really sorry guys. I literally joined this game specifically to play with you and then I skim your posts ) What I have skimmed I've liked, but I don't have a read here that I can bank on.

[Tammy]

To be fair the majority of them are people screaming that it's close to deadline and people not voting on the major wagons are trying to cause a no lynch.

FS claimer Fruit Vendor, Ranger refuses to claim and is at L-1.

You're probably caught up (though I didn't read all those posts so there might be some gem in there.)

[Tammy]

Jesus fucking christ there isn't going to be a no lynch, I've already said I'm here until deadline and am hammering. Like ffs people.

[Tammy]

Ranger isn't claiming. She's already said she won't claim no matter what.

[Tammy]

Well this was a game I was in. Yay town!

i'm bummed I didn't get to be queen though

Thanks for running in Rob13, I had fun while it lasted.

[Tammy]

Wow Plot - do you do those big tables and thread temperature things as town too or is it just something you do as scum?