Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[Quick]

...

RQS is better.

[Quick]

...

RQS is better.

Why not ask the questions yourself then?

What is everyone's experience playing Mafia here?

[Quick]

There is a bit of an easter egg in this: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Quick

[Quick]

I used to play a lot but this is one of my first games back in a long time.I'm really excited.

Quick, do you play on other sites? I think I've seen you before somewhere, maybe Quick is a common name.

Wiki has all your answers.

[Quick]

I've been playing mafia for over a decade, about eight years here on Mafia Scum (this is one of three alts), I have also played on Two Plus Two, Mafia Universe, EpicMafia, and a smattering of other forums no one here is likely to be familiar with.

Outside of forum mafia, I have also played numerous Skype mafia games and more face to face games than I can count. Face to face is my preferred medium, mountainous is my preferred setup, and town is my preferred faction.

So far you've posted twice without any game-relevant content - once to muse about forum meta, and once to ask a player-meta question to no one in particular.

How long do you anticipate it will be before you say something we can procure a read from?

P-edit: Hmm, apparently I know the puppy.

Sure. Let me think of another question.

@Puppy: is Blair good at this game or not?

[Quick]

VOTE: nauci

Mindless comments.

Pro tip: get an avatar.

[Quick]

VOTE: VP Baltar

[Quick]

NPOM is my first slight TR.

[Quick]

NPOM is my first slight TR.

Ok, I'll bite -- why?

Because they looked at my Wiki and then decided they would consider getting an avatar. They will, watch.

[Quick]

That's not a real reason

Okay.

[Quick]

NPOM is my first slight TR.

Help an old guy...what do these abbreviations mean?

NoPowerOverMe = NPOM

[Quick]

Good read.

Or I could be Scum and I know you are Town.

[Quick]

TR=TownRead

[Quick]

You don't understand, usually by now Blair has the class settled down and school is in session. You'll see I guess, or maybe not, don't want to poison the well here, (Sorry Blair!)

So you're saying in your past experience, Blair would be serious out of the gates? Want to make sure I'm interpreting correctly

Blair posts a lot in RVS, that's all, don't mean anything scummy implied

Quick looks like he's doing his own thing but i want him to explain his townread more so

VOTE: Quick

Sure let me try to.

As am experienced Scum he wouldn't think to take my advice seriously. That is why he "considered" doing it.

Then he said I had a good read. Make of that what you will.

[Quick]

They will, watch.

[Quick]

This game is solved by D3.

Just don't NK me.

[Quick]

VOTE: votato

EZ solve.

[Quick]

Now THAT's a bad OMGUS vote.

Given that two people voted for two different targets one after the other before this post, you may want to specify.

Oh, is votato voting for me? I didn't notice.

[Quick]

Okay, not paying attention to any of this until page 10 or so.

[Quick]

Okay, not paying attention to any of this until page 10 or so.

To be perfectly honest, I thought given your initial statement that you were going to afk until D3 when you would have that handy-dandy solve for us.

No, I will still try and play. THE GAME will be solved by D3, GIVEN we are playing a Mafia game and not Russian Roulette.

[Quick]

Can we lynch votato yet?

[Quick]

What do you mean "again"?

[Quick]

I am Null on Atarashi and slight TR on Blair.

Where is that old man?

[Quick]

OTOH, puppy and Blair could be doing theater, otherwise known as distancing.

[Quick]

My gut is that NPOM v Atarashi is TvT. Neither of them seem disingenuous to me.

P-edit: What are your thoughts on Puppy, Quick? I doubt you'd be partner-hunting him if you didn't have at least a slight scumread on him.

My read is based on you and not puppy. I think you went after them and then were like, "HMMMM, maybe Notttttt."

I can see you setting that up since you two know each other so well.

[Quick]

But yeah, Game started fast.

Just trying to show I am Town.

Looking back in a few days it might be apparent everyone posting right now is just Town.

[Quick]

Blair who's my scumbuddy? A page 4 game solution would be a new record.

NPOM -- FOS but no vote?

WTH he has no avatar.

[Quick]

UNVOTE:

I like what I am seeing so far.

P-Edit: Nauci, have not played in almost 2 years anywhere.

[Quick]

UNVOTE:

I like what I am seeing so far.

P-Edit: Nauci, have not played in almost 2 years anywhere.

Oh god that means it's been 2 years, not 1, for me as well

We were in that completely infuriating 226 page Large Normal 208 where TwoInAMillion, as vanilla town, single handedly won the game for scum and put himself at the top of my NEVER-AGAIN player list

Technically we were in Newbie 1863 together but only in that you replaced brassherald who replaced me

My recall is bad. I remember the username and something about.... Oh... Yeah I remember that game. I kept saying Nero is Scum I think without knowing anything. I am WAY more emotionally balanced now. Therapy helps.

[Quick]

VOTE: Blair

I would love to see Blair Tunnel this about now.

[Quick]

[Quick]

UNVOTE:

I like what I am seeing so far.

P-Edit: Nauci, have not played in almost 2 years anywhere.

Oh god that means it's been 2 years, not 1, for me as well

We were in that completely infuriating 226 page Large Normal 208 where TwoInAMillion, as vanilla town, single handedly won the game for scum and put himself at the top of my NEVER-AGAIN player list

Technically we were in Newbie 1863 together but only in that you replaced brassherald who replaced me

Hmmm, looking at the post game for 208 I see very little TiaM discussion. Maybe personal bias?

If you look at the player/roles list and then read TIAM's post history, you'll maybe somewhat understand the agony that was that game, because I am pretty sure every good town player wanted to shake his brain back into his skull

Back when I cared about winning...

[Quick]

He was talking about the gamestate IIRC.

I should be an easy read. Always have been according to me.

[Quick]

He was talking about the gamestate IIRC.

I should be an easy read. Always have been according to me.

Not for me! I remember reading your other games trying to figure you out for that one and maybe one other game where I swear I was dead ass convinced you were scum but you were town so as far as I'm concerned, I'm Lickety Quickety Illiteratey

I meant my Town game should be unmistakable. Never been good at lying, but I can fake emotions well. I would really rather not have a Scummy meta anymore, if you get what I am saying. I hope I have developed that way. Being emotionally reactive is a drain and it's hard to fake that all the time as Scum.

[Quick]

unvote

Vote: Blair

VOTE: Blair

I would love to see Blair Tunnel this about now.

unvote

Vote: Blair

eggs, plain

Both of you: what votato said

Mine had a double meaning.

[Quick]

VOTE: votato

EZ solve.

The 1-scum solve 'doe.

VOTE: Atarashi

[Quick]

Pocket attempt: denied.

[Quick]

votato - Based on 55, 80, 175, 180, they have a natural reaction of trying to give town more information and have what I consider natural trains of thought that are explained easily which would be very difficult for scum to fake

I think we have different definitions of "natural train of thought"


Speaking of which, I don't get them scum vibes from Atarashi either.

There are A LOT of people in this game I want to hear more from.

Look at my recent games for a laugh.

[Quick]

Look at my recent games for a laugh.

Who supplies your coffee, and where can I get some?

You have experience with votato I see. How does he compare this game?

Can't talk about it.

[Quick]

@VP, how do we know you are not pushing miss lynch bait?

[Quick]

Just for donkey:

[Quick]

NoPowerOverMe
CantLynchAPuppy
Quick
Nauci

VP Baltar
votato

Atarashi
Blair

not enough content: iDannyboy, Gammagooey, ready2rock, mavsfan, PeterPan

How do you group those two together?

[Quick]

Ok, so... I antagonized him in 258 and 259 and he chose to see past that and agree with a more nuanced interpretation of what I said as a defense of himself.

Honestly, I expected him to lash out at me the way he lashed out at Puppy.

VOTE: Votato

Now that you've demonstrated you only reach for low hanging fruit sometimes, I'm liking Puppy's case more.

Thoughts?

Okay...

VOTE: Blair

Feel free to ask me for my reasoning.

[Quick]

Ok, so... I antagonized him in 258 and 259 and he chose to see past that and agree with a more nuanced interpretation of what I said as a defense of himself.

Honestly, I expected him to lash out at me the way he lashed out at Puppy.

VOTE: Votato

Now that you've demonstrated you only reach for low hanging fruit sometimes, I'm liking Puppy's case more.

Thoughts?

Okay...

VOTE: Blair

Feel free to ask me for my reasoning.

Nah, not interested, it's probably not that good anyways

if u vote just to have people ask u for an explanation, isn't that just a reaction test to see who takes the bait? Means ur vote can't be all that good can it

Blair has been "off" this game if they are as good as you say they are. Disagree?

[Quick]

Ok, so... I antagonized him in 258 and 259 and he chose to see past that and agree with a more nuanced interpretation of what I said as a defense of himself.

Honestly, I expected him to lash out at me the way he lashed out at Puppy.

I personally missed the bite of #258 and saw it as straight-faced the first time I read it, what was your thought process behind thinking he'd attack you for it?
I think votato's playing objectively a bit badly but I don't see it as more likely to come from scum than town, the 'flailing' just seems like him being irritated and reacting to Puppy's vote.

Is donkey "flailing" though? I am not seeing that, honestly.

[Quick]

Disagree?

yep!

Okay, well Blair seems LAMIST to me this game so far.

[Quick]

VOTE: Puppy

Be advised, I have exited RVS.

Puppy's wagon switch to Quick just to ask him a question, then unvoting while managing to both approve and disapprove of his answer simultaneously didn't sit well with me.

It looks like he just wanted an excuse to take his vote out of play (it does not appear that he is entirely devoid of opinions on everyone at this stage, so why did he take his vote out of play?)

Fortunately for you, VP's recent vote was worse.

VOTE: VP Baltar

P-edit: Oh good, you saw that, too. Join me in my crusade as we march toward a town victory!

Ok, so... I antagonized him in 258 and 259 and he chose to see past that and agree with a more nuanced interpretation of what I said as a defense of himself.

Honestly, I expected him to lash out at me the way he lashed out at Puppy.

VOTE: Votato

Now that you've demonstrated you only reach for low hanging fruit sometimes, I'm liking Puppy's case more.

Thoughts?

All Blairs votes and they have all been terrible.

[Quick]

Disagree?

yep!

Okay, well Blair seems LAMIST to me this game so far.

See! U could have started with this instead of being coy and mysterious about it

i think u want to be all tough and macho and gruff and cool. it's ok, we're having fun too!

I've been coy and mysterious from the beginning boo.

[Quick]

Why did he quote non-blair votes and then mention Blair

Iseewhatyoudidthere.

[Quick]

Feel free to explain how they were all terrible any time the motivation grips you.

Secret and shadow are my worlds.

[Quick]

I low key want to TR Nauci for being active.

[Quick]

Quick’s timeline is strange. Votes Blair in 191 (sheeps NPOM’s vote in 189 on Bair). Then little development and Quick then votes Atarashi 20 posts later citing posts made BEFORE his Blair vote.

Read progression here is strange to me. And the Atarashi vote piggybacks of Nauci’s posts throwing suspicion on Atarashi. This strikes me as a diversion where Nauci’s 207 points to Quick’s sheep vote and Quick is trying push the Atarashi read from Nauci’s posting. Quick just ISO’ing Atarashi to appear to have justification in a vote here.

The timeline is -> Quick votes Blair. Nothing really develops. Nauci pushes Atarashi (Quick does nothing). Nauci then points out Quick’s sheep. Quick then votes Nauci’s other scum read with forced reasoning imo.

@Nauci - that was annoying and I was fighting with autocorrect the whole time to not screw up people’s names.

I would not put much stock in me voting with/against anyone. Never have done that.

[Quick]

haha its amazing how having a few drinks in me makes me understand quick's posting more. maybe his nonsense posting is just cuz hes always drunk.

I subscribe to the bizarre notion that I can hold opinions now and actually adjust them later as the game progresses and I acquire new information.

You seem to be implying that we shouldn't be making any serious pushes now because we don't have enough information yet. I am sympathetic to that view, because we certainly don't have much information yet, but it's a bit of a catch-22 situation because... we need the serious pushes to elicit the serious reactions that procure the information we need to make more serious pushes in the first place.

So unless you're suggesting we wait until Day 2 and hope there are power roles that can solve for us, I'm going to carry on.

im not saying we shouldnt push or pressure. where did i say that? didnt i point out a number of silly things people said? here comes the hard hedge of "im sympathetic to you, but i also agree with you, but im also gonna vote for you (because you werent mean to me). if you want me to be abusive, pls slide in my dms, and i can give you what you want .

Or more likely, i saw it as candid and not a dig. Like i said, its too early to have the game solved. If you think you do, youre probably wrong and should reevaluate. If you still think so after reevaluating, please let me know so i can ignore your reads for the rest of the game.

"Ur looking pretty scummy"
"Hah! you haven't solved the entire game so u're wrong!"

this is not the slam dunk counter argument u seem to think it is.

hang on. let me see if i have this right.
my argument is: "no one has slam dunk arguments. its way too early."
you reply (unironically): "that isnt a slam dunk argument."

Spoiler: can you guess my reply to you?

that isnt a slam dunk argument.

and then theres this wonderful progression:

Spoiler:

I had Votato in my low hanging fruit farmer pile as null.

Reason or gut?

When I look through his ISO, I see him jumping on lots of easy "gotchas" in all directions, all the way back to RVS, so I don't think him pushing two weak scumtells that don't fit together especially well in this particular case means he's up to something, so to speak - I think it's just how he interacts with the thread.

This was my read on it as well, and I'm thankful you articulated it better than I could have

summary: ok im gonna sheep.

Or more likely, i saw it as candid and not a dig. Like i said, its too early to have the game solved. If you think you do, youre probably wrong and should reevaluate. If you still think so after reevaluating, please let me know so i can ignore your reads for the rest of the game.

"Ur looking pretty scummy"
"Hah! you haven't solved the entire game so u're wrong!"

this is not the slam dunk counter argument u seem to think it is.

I've decided from the last 2 pages that Puppy is a good boi

And that votato is not one, but not for that whole "he didn't lash out at Blair for the extremely-mild-sort-of-criticism!" argument some people were making

Need to evaluate—is votato dismissing all of the reads contributed to this game thus far just as a knee jerk reaction to people scum reading

him alone

, or was there a major push against a 2nd scum as well?

summary: let me offer a hedge saying im not sure whether to sheep

VOTE: votato

I think I've got my math right and this is L-2

summary: ok, ive decided to sheep but im not gonna explain why. that way if im wrong i can backtrack and say "heyyyyyyy i wasnt sure. no, ur backtracking."

for the record, the push on me is the biggest wagon so far, but it isnt the only wagon. my comment was largely directed at me, telling you all that you shouldnt put too much stock in my early game reads. it also applies to you all though, see my signature. my meta is to throw a lot of shit at the wall to see if any of it tastes good. quick can confirm.

[Quick]

Quick, it would be enormously helpful if you would spend less time trying to cultivate your "WoOoOo I'm SuCh A mYsTeRiOuS eNiGmA" meta for future games and more time trying to help us find scum in this one.

Or you can just be Scum. That too.

[Quick]

Quick, it would be enormously helpful if you would spend less time trying to cultivate your "WoOoOo I'm SuCh A mYsTeRiOuS eNiGmA" meta for future games and more time trying to help us find scum in this one.

^Agree

It's okay because the lynchbait you are voting understands me.

I am not trying to be cryptic, I just see what I post as obvious.

Basically, VP voting for votato tells us nothing and I don't know why he is pushing that. That should be pretty clear at this point if you ISO + votato.

[Quick]

@VP, how do we know you are not pushing miss lynch bait?

Just for donkey:

Ok, so... I antagonized him in 258 and 259 and he chose to see past that and agree with a more nuanced interpretation of what I said as a defense of himself.

Honestly, I expected him to lash out at me the way he lashed out at Puppy.

VOTE: Votato

Now that you've demonstrated you only reach for low hanging fruit sometimes, I'm liking Puppy's case more.

Thoughts?

Okay...

VOTE: Blair

Feel free to ask me for my reasoning.

Cuz I hate this vote more than VP's.

[Quick]

I low key want to TR Nauci for being active.

Does this not apply to the other people who have been active for ~reasons~?

I don't think I know those reasons. If you are talking about Blair, then I can buy that, but I cannot buy that for donkey at this point.

[Quick]

Quick, it would be enormously helpful if you would spend less time trying to cultivate your "WoOoOo I'm SuCh A mYsTeRiOuS eNiGmA" meta for future games and more time trying to help us find scum in this one.

In my experience with Quick and trying to read his past games to figure out his meta for said previous game with Quick, he's never really intentionally being enigmatic. It's more like his trains of thought are very different from any that I've ever had, they make total sense to him, but he only ever says such a small portion of his thoughts out loud that all I ever surmise about his theories is ?????

Good read, well played. Still noting the pocket attempt though.

[Quick]

Quick you should rename to Quicksotic

Too many characters to refer to myself in the 3rd person.

[Quick]

I think votato is Town this game. There, I said it.

[Quick]

Okay, Effort for donkey just means he is Town. That is all I am saying.

[Quick]

They?

[Quick]

Okay, Effort for donkey just means he is Town. That is all I am saying.

I burned myself out completely 2 years ago by being the queen of meta-diving and wall posts, so dangit don't prompt me down that rabbit hole again

Just read one of my responses to VP about votato.

[Quick]

Okay, Effort for donkey just means he is Town. That is all I am saying.

I'll bite. Give me the case on Blair.

Read my ISO, that's all I have. Or you are just Scum with Blair. That could work here.

[Quick]

unvote

Vote: Blair

VOTE: Blair

I would love to see Blair Tunnel this about now.

unvote

Vote: Blair

eggs, plain

Both of you: what votato said

Mine had a double meaning.

Disagree?

yep!

Okay, well Blair seems LAMIST to me this game so far.

See! U could have started with this instead of being coy and mysterious about it

i think u want to be all tough and macho and gruff and cool. it's ok, we're having fun too!

I've been coy and mysterious from the beginning boo.

Feel free to explain how they were all terrible any time the motivation grips you.

Secret and shadow are my worlds.

I am not trying to be cryptic

VOTE: Quick

I was null reading it as an intentional playstyle thing until you claimed it wasn't.

I say votato is Town and you vot me? Is this for real?

[Quick]

I say votato is Town and you vot me? Is this for real?

Your reading comprehension is definitely better than this.

Just stating FACTS, Blair. FACTS.

[Quick]

I say votato is Town and you vot me? Is this for real?

Your reading comprehension is definitely better than this.

Just stating FACTS, Blair. FACTS.

VOTE: Quick

I was null reading it as an intentional playstyle thing until you claimed it wasn't.

That was enough to override your vote on votato? How come?

I don't like it when people lie. Especially about themselves.

Lynch All Liars tends to hit scum at a higher rate than my confidence in any of my scumreads right now.

Votato shifted to my null column as he interacted with his wagon.

Please prove I lied...?

[Quick]

VOTE: Quick

I was null reading it as an intentional playstyle thing until you claimed it wasn't.

That was enough to override your vote on votato? How come?

Thank u for this, i was wondering who was going to blink on the votato wagon first and missed this vote change

You should probably start reading my posts now.

[Quick]

VOTE: votato

Sheep me and I will shepherd, nobody is on a wagon as good as this one

Shepherd me.
VOTE: votato

No one it talking about this fwiw.

[Quick]

VOTE: votato

Sheep me and I will shepherd, nobody is on a wagon as good as this one

Shepherd me.
VOTE: votato

I support this vote. Can we hear your reasoning though?

Except this? Which is like wtf? Why say this even?

[Quick]

I say votato is Town and you vot me? Is this for real?

Your reading comprehension is definitely better than this.

So is yours because I specifically said, "is this for real?" and you IGNORED THAT BIT OF INFO.

[Quick]

Please prove I lied...?

You are welcome to read 344 again. I don't really expect you to convince you that you are scum, though.

Everyone else who reads it should see pretty clearly what I'm talking about.

Maybe you should stop being cryptic? How does that sound?

[Quick]

unvote

Vote: Blair

VOTE: Blair

I would love to see Blair Tunnel this about now.

unvote

Vote: Blair

eggs, plain

Both of you: what votato said

Mine had a double meaning.

Disagree?

yep!

Okay, well Blair seems LAMIST to me this game so far.

See! U could have started with this instead of being coy and mysterious about it

i think u want to be all tough and macho and gruff and cool. it's ok, we're having fun too!

I've been coy and mysterious from the beginning boo.

Feel free to explain how they were all terrible any time the motivation grips you.

Secret and shadow are my worlds.

I am not trying to be cryptic

VOTE: Quick

I was null reading it as an intentional playstyle thing until you claimed it wasn't.

If you take a joke comment to mean something it doesn't, I am pretty sure that is Scummy behavior. Keep pushing this though, I would love to see how it develops.

[Quick]

"Is this for real" is not a valid question worth answering when the "this" in question is a case that I did not make.

I didn't vote for you for saying Votato is Town. So no, that is not for real.

Okay, so you are voting for me for making a Joke post? I think I get that now, but still think you are Scum for pushing this.

[Quick]

BTW, please PROVE I lied, thanks.

GLHF

[Quick]

...

[Quick]

unvote

Vote: Blair

VOTE: Blair

I would love to see Blair Tunnel this about now.

unvote

Vote: Blair

eggs, plain

Both of you: what votato said

Mine had a double meaning.

Disagree?

yep!

Okay, well Blair seems LAMIST to me this game so far.

See! U could have started with this instead of being coy and mysterious about it

i think u want to be all tough and macho and gruff and cool. it's ok, we're having fun too!

I've been coy and mysterious from the beginning boo.

Feel free to explain how they were all terrible any time the motivation grips you.

Secret and shadow are my worlds.

I am not trying to be cryptic

VOTE: Quick

I was null reading it as an intentional playstyle thing until you claimed it wasn't.

I'll take that as a hard no.

[Quick]

but isnt the increasing quality of the wagons (maybe) and the increasing information resulting (definitely) a natural result of moving out of RVS?

nauci, i feel like the two somewhat contradict in terms of internal reasoning. i think both are valid reasons. i just dont think one mind could think both of those things at once.

Hi votato!

Going to assume u don't like the wagon on u, but u do think we're out of RVS now and ur wagon that i pushed is part of that, right? So, with 5 votes on u, who's scum? Who is voting u for "bad" reasons and who is voting for "scum" reasons?

are you just gonna

keep ignoring

the questions i asked you?

What on earth are u even talking about

townie response tbqh.

hot take: puppy never says this as Scum with votato.

[Quick]

Blair v. Quick is town v town, fight me:

If you take a joke comment to mean something it doesn't, I am pretty sure that is Scummy behavior. Keep pushing this though, I would love to see how it develops.

Like, come on, this just screams, "OH WOE AM i," dramatic, drama queen, wants to be misunderstood so he can complain about how he is misunderstood and pretend that makes him a better poster than us.

Naw, or it's just that I think there are actual reasons to SR Blair. Your response is cute though, just like a puppy. Could never lynch a puppy tbqh.

[Quick]

However, if i don't have u as scum i don't have u as town either. i think u're being a little passive, not in a scummie sense, but i think u are a bigger blank to me than some other posters. Help me out. Do u have a second strong scumread besides votato?

I would not say strong. I do believe there could be some scum bussing interaction around votato. I'd rather keep that close to the vest until I'm more sure. I also think it is very possible there could be some scum in the wall paper crowd of people who are barely posting. Hard to say which, given a lack of stuff to read there. That's another reason we should try to improve the signal-noise ratio.

I have more town reads than scum at this moment. I'd say I'm fairly confident to this point that you, Blair, Quick and Atarashi are more likely town than scum.

Rule of 3. Nope not explaining that.

[Quick]

VP also completely ignored all the questions asked of him. interesting.

And u ignored the question and which questions i was "ignoring". is this double interesting? triple interesting?

Not interesting at all actually. ISO function works pretty well on this site. You can F3 = ?

[Quick]

Page 15 makes me want to facepalm so hard

But also it is the most Stereoquickipal behavior I've ever seen. It's one of his top 3 schticks to aggressively misinterpret someone and then make a whole truck load of posts with that misinterpretation as the premise.

Quick: Blair is saying you were lying because you, on 3 separate occasions, claimed you purposely post enigmatically/mysteriously, and then in the 4th post claimed that you were NOT trying to be cryptic, which totally contradicts the previous 3 posts

Blair: I think that Quick both meant what he said the first 3 times, and what he said with that last bit, because A: the part about him NOT trying to be cryptic was referring to a very specific subset of his posts, and B: he sometimes owns the fact that he's unintentionally cryptic because he doesn't explain his theories well enough, but sometimes he also says that this happens because he's intentionally being mysterious. It's the sort of thing that has gotten him mislynched many a time. I think that if you're going to scum read him, you have to go a bit deeper than surface contradictions.

I know what Blair is claiming. It's just an excuse to OMGUS tbh.

[Quick]

Quick, bruh, u definiteyl know exactly what u did and how u contradicted urself

Blair's vote is lame imo, "Lynch all liars" is lame in this context, but u did it to urself and u have to know that

So did u do a reaction test? Because if u just think it's OMGUS then it's just null to u right? So why keep making a thing about something that's null?

If people cannot read my jokes as jokes then I am pretty sure reacting to them is Scummy - especially when you think I am Scum for lying. I don't buy that Blair actually thought I was lying for a second. That's the problem and that's why it's OMGUS.

[Quick]

BTW, Blair is a Lawyer IIRC which means they really should be able to read between the lines.

[Quick]

Quick, bruh, u definiteyl know exactly what u did and how u contradicted urself

Blair's vote is lame imo, "Lynch all liars" is lame in this context, but u did it to urself and u have to know that

So did u do a reaction test? Because if u just think it's OMGUS then it's just null to u right? So why keep making a thing about something that's null?

If people cannot read my jokes as jokes then I am pretty sure reacting to them is Scummy - especially when you think I am Scum for lying. I don't buy that Blair actually thought I was lying for a second. That's the problem and that's why it's OMGUS.

If they were jokes, then why didn't you double back later and provide non-joke answers to those questions?

Pretty sure me saying I was joking was the first thing I did AFTER I said you should probably prove that I was lying.

[Quick]

... The posts that I'm calling lies...

... were responses to direct questions people asked you...

.. you claim your answers were jokes now...

... so why didn't you ever answer those questions sincerely...?

I sincerely hope that clears up your evident confusion.

You should really start reading Nauci's posts on me because they are a literal gold mine of info for you guys. But go ahead and ignore more info, I guess.

[Quick]

Okay, Effort for donkey just means he is Town. That is all I am saying.

I'll bite. Give me the case on Blair.

Read my ISO, that's all I have. Or you are just Scum with Blair. That could work here.

Just quoting myself here for emphasis.

[Quick]

Your non-answer is noted.

I am reading Nauci's posts, but it's just meta info on your playstyle. It's helpful, but meta is mostly garbage. If your meta is violently anti-town, that doesn't really persuade me to keep you around anyway.

What part of my play is Anti-Town? Is it Anti-Town to get people to think about what I am saying?

[Quick]

VOTE: NPOM

This is Scummy as shit. His reads make no sense.

[Quick]

Your non-answer is noted.

I am reading Nauci's posts, but it's just meta info on your playstyle. It's helpful, but meta is mostly garbage. If your meta is violently anti-town, that doesn't really persuade me to keep you around anyway.

What part of my play is Anti-Town? Is it Anti-Town to get people to think about what I am saying?

The part where you deliberately misinterpreted my case (you have since admitted you knew what I meant) and then unleashed a smokescreen flurry of posts based on that false premise.

Where is my vote love?

[Quick]

@MOD, NPOM is on R2R

[Quick]

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

That makes zero sense.

[Quick]

I anticipate Quick will now say "omg Blair is null reading Votato for the same reason that she is scumreading me!!!!one!!eleven!"

To which I riposte: The difference is I do not believe he is doing so on purpose.

Okay, even if I grant you that, why is what I am doing actually SCUMMY tho?

[Quick]

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

Are you implying that the quiet people are all scum together, or is there some other logic to your assessment?

He is saying they are Town for voting for someone who is never getting lynched this phase.

[Quick]

Nauci then informed me that this is one of your top three schticks, which tells me I can expect more of this to come.

And since you told me Nauci's analysis of you was a "goldmine" I should not overlook, I have accepted the premise.

But why is that SCUMMY tho?

Or you can completely stay in your "lynch all liars" quarters by yourself and everyone else can read me as Town. Now... Pay attention to what the Puppy says about me as well because they definitely have a clue and you don't.

[Quick]

VOTE: nauci

Mindless comments.

Pro tip: get an avatar.

I'll consider it. I'm doordashing at the moment.

You don't understand, usually by now Blair has the class settled down and school is in session. You'll see I guess, or maybe not, don't want to poison the well here, (Sorry Blair!)

So you're saying in your past experience, Blair would be serious out of the gates? Want to make sure I'm interpreting correctly

Blair posts a lot in RVS, that's all, don't mean anything scummy implied

Quick looks like he's doing his own thing but i want him to explain his townread more so

VOTE: Quick

Sure let me try to.

As am experienced Scum he wouldn't think to take my advice seriously. That is why he "considered" doing it.

Then he said I had a good read. Make of that what you will.

Which pretty much implicates NPOM given he has experience playing as per his FoS and he never intended to get an avatar in the first place. This is Scum.

Weird reasoning, but think about it for a bit.

Plus, did you see how quickly he gave me a TR? Like, why does my tinfoil case he is TOWN a good read? Because I am pretty sure I said:

They will, watch.

AND:

Blair who's my scumbuddy? A page 4 game solution would be a new record.

NPOM -- FOS but no vote?

WTH he has no avatar.

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

That makes zero sense.

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

Are you implying that the quiet people are all scum together, or is there some other logic to your assessment?

He is saying they are Town for voting for someone who is never getting lynched this phase.

Plus, it means either his SR on Blair dissopated (with no progression) and that he is ignoring the VP wagon while even saying the people voting there are likely Town -1. At what point does NPOM make the "logical" choice just vote VP here? Does he TR VP or is the Town -1 mean there is no possibility of Bus or what? Cuz I am pretty sure NPOM knows Scum would for sure sit on a Scum early game if they don't intend to be active.

Good read.

Giving townreads is generally protown in my opinion as it opens yourself up to criticism

Why is everyone so scummy? Except Quick and Puppy.

Okay, I guess, just don't shut down Sus on yourself I guess

[Quick]

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

nah

Game is just over 24 hours old

Your defense of his play is noted.

[Quick]

So join me then.

How about no because you can both be Scum here.

[Quick]

So could you but I doubt it.

I'm never Scum with anyone except VP and possibly R2R?

[Quick]

So could you but I doubt it.

I'm never Scum with anyone except VP and possibly R2R?

you should be scum with me

LOL, no. I'm not.

[Quick]

Okay, going to start on notes sometime tonight.

GLHF

[Quick]

Any particular posts or moments where you feel that way?

Where she queestions her read of Blair.

Okay, I don't buy this. She could be very well faking that. Time will tell I guess.

[Quick]

So I should have asked myself to spew town as well?

I'm not really following. (Also, THAT definitely would be asking for town cred)

You shouldn't "ask yourself to spew town", you should just do things that are pro town rather than go around looking for people that think you are town.

If I cock my head ever so slightly, I can read this as SvS.

[Quick]

as someone else said, the important thing is that you thought you did.

Then can you answer my 117 and 119? Like, this whole wagon positioning argument is really weird.

first, if you want me to respond to posts other than the one you are currently making, be a lamb and use [post] tags.
second, neither of those posts are addressed to me. you want me to answer them?

NPOM's posts werent memorable at all. partly its probably the lack of avatar (a condition that will result in a scum-read if it persists), but it also suggests a lack of content or quality shitposting.

Where do you get off calling your posts being higher quality than mine?

@atarashi: no, i don't buy the wagon positioning argument. its kinda silly pre-flip. i just think that your defense of it is even worse, and does not do anything to defend your actions because your defense said "i didnt do x" when the argument was "you thought you did x." You either need to say "i didnt think i did x" or "x isnt bad". you said neither.

@NPOM: i said nothing about the quality of my posts. and i didnt say yours were particularly bad either. i just said i didnt remember. if you add an avatar youll be more memorable.

@quick: are you really gonna start deathtunneling me already? its a bit early for that, no? i hope you're gonna bring a different playstyle here.

This is a pretty damn good response tbqh.

[Quick]

Wait, Lied. It's not good.

[Quick]

Also @votato, respond to 157 already

Stop tunneling votato because you are not the type to tunnel? Or are you just having fun in the game at this point?

In any case, Scum distance early in the game, in which case, you have zero hope of winning here.

[Quick]

I already said what strikes Nauci as town to me.

Why are votato and VP both blue?

[Quick]

anyways, they are green now.

Why Votato not Scum with those two?

[Quick]

anyways, they are green now.

Why Votato not Scum with those two?

Don't see it. On day one wagonees are more likely to be town than wagoners most of the time.

Why did Blair never vote for votato and Atarashi (whatever their anime name is) simultaneously distance from votato? Or is VP/votato just chance at SK?

[Quick]

Why did Blair never vote for votato and Atarashi (whatever their anime name is) simultaneously distance from votato?

I try not to role chase this early in the game.

[Quick]

Blair did vote for votato but was the only one to actually hop off of the wagon thus far

tbh I need to go reread normal setup rules because I don't even know if we have 2 or 3 scum rn lmao

DENIED!

Let me check that real quick

[Quick]

@Nauci - that was annoying and I was fighting with autocorrect the whole time to not screw up people’s names.

Too bad you are getting lynched D1, huh?

[Quick]

Then you suck at mafia.

Who the hell are you talking to here?

[Quick]

@Umlaut: Does scum have daytalk?

DENIED.

That is WAY too many to "show you are Town" so...

VOTE: Nauci

[Quick]

Here is a list based on Data:

iDanyboy
R2R
mav
PP

[Quick]

Puppy, Blair
VP, Atarashi
votato
Gamma, Nauci, NPOM

Here is another list.

[Quick]

This is more or less my reads at this point.

Atarashi
mav, Gamma, Puppy
Dany, VP, Blair
votato
NPOM
R2R

But I would like to see what R2R brings to the table.

So this is my vote after analysis (seperate from what I have said ITT).

VOTE: NPOM

[Quick]

@Umlaut: Does scum have daytalk?

DENIED.

That is WAY too many to "show you are Town" so...

VOTE: Nauci

I don't buy this line of reasoning, I can't honestly see a scum!Nauci somehow thinking she's so clever by oh so subtly slipping out a towntell

Uh... People do that ALL THE TIME where I come from.

[Quick]

Possibly, I suppose I'll revise and say that I don't think it's any more likely to come from scum trying to plant the idea than town trying to determine gamestate

For the record I lean slight town on her in general, and I don't think this affects that read either way

TBQH, I am just scared of the pocket. I really hate being manipulated.

[Quick]

Oh, I forgot to include Nauci into my analysis. It looks like she is exactly tied with you for Scummy behavior. (Yes, I have actually done math for this game.)

[Quick]

Wow I must suck if I am more scummy than Danny and R2R.

You're not?

[Quick]

Just R2R. I have Dany as Null.

[Quick]

Oh, I forgot to include Nauci into my analysis. It looks like she is exactly tied with you for Scummy behavior. (Yes, I have actually done math for this game.)

Then why switch your vote off her?

Because I didn't add her to the list is the only reason. I have all my data for it, I just forgot to add her to a list. So I was going off of everything without here included. Then I looked at my list and I made a read from there. I hadn't actually seen you interact much (as you only had 5 posts at the time of my calculation) so I wanted to see what more you brought to the table before voting there. At this point, I could very well go back to nauci, but honestly, after putting my vote on NPOM I just want to let it ride at this point and see who/if anyone follows me there. If there is a ton of resistance to the NPOM wagon then I will likely keep my vote there or go to one of my other SRs (you/Nauci). But it does appear that nothing is ruling out NPOM encouraging Nauci to Pocket me at this point, which I am pretty sure I can totally see NPOM coaching Nauci to do that in Scum chat.

[Quick]

Anyone could be faking anything. It's called gut feeling.

Giving townreads is generally protown in my opinion as it opens yourself up to criticism

I just wanted to say that pretty much anything you say ITT can be subject to criticism. Okay, hypocrisy noted just because you loved my TR on you that turned out to be totally WRONG.

[Quick]

Meow.

[Quick]

@Quick - maybe it's a little late for this but please just answer questions when Blair or other people ask them if they're about your reads or why you did something, it's really difficult to read you if you tell people to read your or other people's isos rather than just explaining why you thought something at a given time. Like if I'm trying to figure out why you think Blair would do something is scum for example it's a lot easier to try figure out your alignment from a description of what you were thinking at the time than you telling me to go read through your iso or look at a specfic post Blair made without any extra context.

@Blair - Has your opinion on votato changed much in the last 5 pages or so? I'm not ULTRA-CONFIDENT but I like his recent posts.

@ready - What makes you think Blair vs Quick is TvT? I know Puppy mentioned a reason for it earlier but do you agree with what he said or do you have your own for it?

I would but I mentally don't even know what to tell people so they can understand...

[Quick]

5 pages over night....y'all are crazy and this better be good.

Go on.

I would like to hear what you have to say because I have you as pretty solidly Null atm.

[Quick]

@EVERYONE

Flash-reads on Quick, please! For verily and forsooth doth I have need of them!

Blair, I think out of the two of you, you're actually making a case and I can see why you feel the way you do. I see your lynch all liars logic, and you are right it is a good guide to scum. I think there is a question of intent behind Quick's posts. I think the discrepancy you point out reads more like a player goofing and not paying attention to how dumb it looks.

If we are following the lynch all liars logic, don't you think the case on r2r is better?

Well, I guess I suck at this game for not just saying when I said, "shadow and secret are my worlds" which should be pretty damn obvious. Nauci picked up on that pretty squarely. Are jokes Scummy? Or rather, what Scum motive do I actually have to say that exactly? you can talk about generalities all you want but ultimately it's motive that counts and Blair NEVER believed I was lying.

[Quick]

Major town points on Nauci here for me. I had been eyeing her carefully, but only town would defuse this pointless fight that well. Not looking great for you iDany.

Naw, Nauci is a self admitted meta diver so they have poured over my posts trying to understand me.

[Quick]

For example, mine for Quick is:

I initially thought Quick was being intentionally enigmatic and dodging questions as a matter of playstyle, but then he explicitly denied that he was doing so. When I voted for him for this apparent contradiction, he then claimed I was only voting for him for townreading Votato - something I never said, and he later admitted he knew that was not what I meant (another lie)! Liars who wilfully mislead the thread are more often scum than not.

P-edit: You keep ignoring the other two examples I gave. The ones where people asked you questions and you dodged them with similar antics.

@Quick - maybe it's a little late for this but please just answer questions when Blair or other people ask them if they're about your reads or why you did something, it's really difficult to read you if you tell people to read your or other people's isos rather than just explaining why you thought something at a given time. Like if I'm trying to figure out why you think Blair would do something is scum for example it's a lot easier to try figure out your alignment from a description of what you were thinking at the time than you telling me to go read through your iso or look at a specfic post Blair made without any extra context.

@Blair - Has your opinion on votato changed much in the last 5 pages or so? I'm not ULTRA-CONFIDENT but I like his recent posts.

@ready - What makes you think Blair vs Quick is TvT? I know Puppy mentioned a reason for it earlier but do you agree with what he said or do you have your own for it?

I would but I mentally don't even know what to tell people so they can understand...

Maybe perhaps try and understand where other people are coming from. Making a case is fine, but you should probably bee looking at why they are saying what they are saying rather that just finding excuses to push shit.

[Quick]

208 288 292

These were my examples of Quick being intentionally cryptic, for reference.

307

This was Quick's denial of being intentionally cryptic, for reference.

Quick says one of those three was a joke, and continues to pretend that one is the only one I listed.

How about the way I play generates discussion. How does that sit with you?

[Quick]

I am so over this rn. Keep making your "points" to be "right" IDGAF.

[Quick]

I am so over this rn. Keep making your "points" to be "right" IDGAF.

This is pretty textbook "You're right for the wrong reasons" righteous outrage, by the way.

(And meshes pretty well with his repeated "You can't PROVE it!!!!" riposte)

Keep making your points, it doesn't make you right. Pretty much everyone else has reason to TR me so far this game. Good luck lynching me.

[Quick]

I'll wait.

[Quick]

The problem with flipping R2R so early is that we have very little to work with for the rest of the game. Is R2R actually Scum? Which means at least one of my SRs was correct.

Keep in mind R2R pushed me on my reasoning earlier before this wagon happened, thanks.

[Quick]

That is at least the second time you have proclaimed that every single person in this thread but me is townreading you.

I missed that development. Wishful thinking? Fake it until you make it? Or something else?

How many votes do I have?

[Quick]

I can confirm that in his previous game R2R was scum and he used the "too early to participate" excuse.

You want to link that?

[Quick]

I like my vote atm.

[Quick]

When did I do that? In either game? Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "too early to participate"

My read on GL is neutral right now. I think the way he's playing the game is good, but that makes it more difficult for me to be able to read him one way or the other. Need to look at him in iso at some point once there's more to go on.

GL had had 5 posts out of 100 or so already and 9000 total so it seems to me he had more than enough content to have an opinion on and, as you are now, you were looking for an excuse to lurk.

Also, based on your use of terms like "hammer", "RVS", "wagon", and "mylo" it seems that you have played mafia in other forums before and are trying to feign ignorance.

So what are you comparing that post to in this game? The point I was saying there is about being careful with saying that agreeing with someone's points = town, which doesn't have to do with inactivity or "being too early"

I've said my mafia experience in my first post of this game. I've played one game in the past 5 years and it's that one. Played a fair amount a long time ago and that's how I'm familiar with the terms

From Newbie Game:

That's fair, mostly yessiree seemed to take my "reads" in RVS a bit seriously, so I wanted to make it clear that it was a bit, speaking of which

UNVOTE:

Gonna need to look through again tomorrow to get some better reads when I'm less tired

It seems like your MO is to try to skirt through day 1 unnoticed, and when you are noticed you cry foul.

It sucks that you drew scum on your first two games but it's great for town I'm sure you understand.

Oh, my. You are really quite confident they are Scum, aren't you?

[Quick]

Pretty confident. They are playing just like they did in the newbie game when they were scum. So unless you just want to discard meta for no reason...

Oh, except that "key reason" isn't there, which is EXACTLY what you were trying to infer. That shit is SO SvS.

[Quick]

He sure is active now.

More votes please.

I will be sure to hammer

[Quick]

And now I am reading VP as Town.

[Quick]

I kinda low key just want to ditch the thread and just magically show up to hammer. Hmm.

[Quick]

Quick is wishy washy town.

Yeah, until endgame.

[Quick]

Hot take: If I am Scum, I just lose. But I have tools at my disposal now that I have never used on MS. I have actually developed a plethora of different methods for analyzing players and they are public, but I found something that works for me and until it fails, it, in theory, destroys Scum by LyLo.

FWIW, this is more theorycraft than anything (I never really used it much), but it might have some utility at some point.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... y-Quick%29

GLHF

[Quick]

Hot take: If I am Scum, I just lose.

Why do you think that? I just ran did a topic search on your profile and you have won a game as scum on this site before.

Can't talk about it too much, but basically, and this is a bit of an ego stretch, I think due to the methods I have developed I might actually catch Scum too quickly as Town.

*shrug*

I'm totally willing to tank my Scum game for a destroying accurate Town Game.

I am not really trying to brag here, but I've discovered my semantic understanding of words is a lot better than most people so I can actually pick up little tiny things about their motivation that they telegraph to you by how they say things. Uhhhhhhhhhh, my verbal IQ is really quite high and I have a ridiculous learning curve given enough time. Before, I still had those capabilities, but my emotions were an absolute trainwreck and I tended to WAY overreact to things and take them personally which made me make a LOT of mistakes. I am WAY more balanced emotionally now and way more confident due to spending about 2 years in DBT therapy and working a LOT on mindfulness. I have had people tell me on numerous occasions, "Quick, no one knows what your potential is." Also, because my verbal IQ is so high people actually have a hard time following what it is that I am saying and it's like I am speaking a different language because of it, Iunno. I have found a pattern that people mostly just take what they read based on cultural norms without actually thinking about what it is that people are actually saying. I am VERY specific with my words and have had to learn how to get better at explaining myself because what makes logical sense to me sounds like nonsense to other people (as per this thread shows). I have had to do things like spell things in all caps just so people can get the emphasis in what I am saying. I actually ended up getting a ton of neuropsychological tests done because people never understood what I was saying. I thought my verbal IQ was actually really low because people didn't understand what I was saying, but it's actually the opposite. And just to be clear, so it doesn't look like I am bragging and to even things out a lot, my working memory and processing speed are VERY low because I care WAY too much about saying things perfectly (FYI, I do NOT expect people to understand this at ALL). In any case, believe this or not. I am just explaining things that I think are relevant. Also, I tend to scrutinize things to an unhealthy level, which is a blessing and a curse at the same time. It makes me understand things very very well but OTOH I am so perfectionistic that it actually makes me not want to read because I just think intuitively that I will be able to understand things just fine without much effort.

BTW, I am not like claiming to be the smartest person in this game or anything. I know the kinds of people who generally like this kind of stuff have a higher than average IQ. In fact, I would put money on the fact that everyone in this game has an IQ above 100 (the average).

It's also that I have a sever mental illness and so sometimes I look into things that are not there, which, I am sure you can imagine can make other people think I am from outer space. Like I said, therapy helped a lot. Mindfulness is brilliant and everyone should learn about it.

Okay, that's my rant. Just trying to get you all to understand where I am coming from. I think it's relevant as per prior discussions about this ITT and how most people seem to be thinking I am just not "sense making" <joke. So All I ask is that if you don't understand what I am saying you can either ask me to clarify (I generally do well when people ask me questions, but they never do) or just think about the implications and word choice I have used. BTW, I am the OPPOSITE of Blair in that I pretty much always clarify what I am saying with "probably" or "likely"... you get the drift. I hate being wrong and that was a huge problem considering I also hated people misunderstanding me and I actually took that stuff really personally at one point in my life because it made me feel like there was something wrong with me.

/rant

P-Edit: It seems Blair has answer my question for me, Disregard. /s

[Quick]

Still like my vote!

I did state a case on NPOM but not one person commented on it. Not really sure why that is.

[Quick]

This is what he said first:

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

Based on this VC:

Vote Count 1.5

votato

(4): VP Baltar, CantLynchAPuppy, iDanyboy, Nauci

VP Baltar

(3): mavsfan41, votato, ready2rock

NoPowerOverMe

(2): Atarashi Hajimari, Quick

Nauci

(1): Gammagooey

Quick

(1): Blair

ready2rock

(1): NoPowerOverMe

Not Voting

(1): Peter Pan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-05-25 00:50:00)

But he was previously voting for Blair here:

Vote Count 1.4

votato

(5): VP Baltar, CantLynchAPuppy, iDanyboy, Blair, Nauci

Blair

(2): NoPowerOverMe, Quick

Atarashi Hajimari

(1): votato

NoPowerOverMe

(1): Atarashi Hajimari

Nauci

(1): Gammagooey

Quick

(1): mavsfan41

Not Voting

(2): ready2rock, Peter Pan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-05-25 00:50:00)

And my vote on him doesn't come until here:

VOTE: NPOM

This is Scummy as shit. His reads make no sense.

THEN he says:

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

The only votes that had changed at that point were that Blair voted for me in 344, donkey votes VP in 398, and R2R votes for VP in 409.

After those votes, he votes for R2R here:

VOTE: ready2rock

Note:

This post was edited to facilitate automated vote counting; the unedited original is quoted below this comment. - Um

vote r2r

At the time, and there is nothing to contradict this, this was his reads:

NoPowerOverMe
CantLynchAPuppy
Quick
Nauci

VP Baltar
votato

Atarashi
Blair

not enough content: iDannyboy, Gammagooey, ready2rock, mavsfan, PeterPan

Because he literally didn't even infer any reads at all from his reads list to his vote:

VOTE: ready2rock

Note:

This post was edited to facilitate automated vote counting; the unedited original is quoted below this comment. - Um

vote r2r

Which is NAKED BTW,, but he explains his reason here:

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

Are you implying that the quiet people are all scum together, or is there some other logic to your assessment?

I'm saying there is more likely scum on the wagon than not.

The problem is that it makes no sense why he would TR Blair based on Blair voting for me, because he TRs me.

Like I said, He shows absolutely ZERO progression in their read on Blair. I WAS still voting for Blair at the time he voted R2R. So the only reason I can actually see for NPOM TRing Blair is because of their OMGUS on me. Which is why my case on Blair is actually important at this point in the game. Because I made the case that Blair NEVER ACTUALLY BELIEVED that I was lying. What's more is that Blair can understand me just fine demonstrated here:

He's implying he has a foolproof scumhunting script that he follows now regardless of alignment, so he's going to follow it and if he's scum he'll just end up outing all his partners and then himself!

And since he's just following his System™ there's nothing alignment indicative about any of his posts! Brilliant!

(Otherwise what was the point of sharing that in this context?)

IF that's the case, then NPOM me KNOWS Blair is Town. But again, the huge flaming giant dumpster fire here is that HE HAD NO PROGRESSION ON BLAIR.

[Quick]

I can go into further detail with this if I must.

[Quick]

This is a perfectly legitimate reason for voting for VP at this stage of the game:

Okay, Effort for donkey just means he is Town. That is all I am saying.

I'll bite. Give me the case on Blair.

So at the time of this question, Blair’s VC was 2, NPOM and Quick. NPOM voted Blair way back in 189. Quick voted Blair closer to this post in 270 while baiting “feel free to ask me for my reasoning” which makes me believe that VP Baltar is directing the above at Quick.

In 376, VP Baltar says he’s pretty sure Quick and Blair are town. I don’t think town!VP Baltar asks his TR Quick about their case on TR Blair. Town!VP Baltar would only asks this if he’s scum reading at least one of Quick/Blair.

His town read post came after a Blair vs Quick so it’s possible he read that as TvT since, but that means he was scum reading Blair since he was town reading Quick in 317.

He never makes a push on Blair prior to this or expresses any sort of scum read on Blair. I think the above is disingenuous and he looking for town to eat itself here.

Vote: VP Baltar

HOWEVER...

One of NPOM's reasons for voting on the VP wagon is that:

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

Which is pretty much just blatantly FALSE given I personally have a decent TR on mav and they are making serious sense right now.

The other problem is that Donkey is NOT a low poster at this point in the game!!!

So it REALLY looks like NPOM is just going after low hanging fruit by voting R2R, but maybe, just maybe, R2R set that shit up on purpose??? Either way, NPOM's vote on R2R is BAD when he has better reasons to keep his vote on Blair while there is actually a cemblance of a wagon there with me as his TR voting with him on someone he thinks is Scum... Except he KNOWS Blair is Town so he gets off Blair to go after low hanging fruit.

Again... He has every reason to stay on Blair at this point... One of his TRs whom he admits has good reads is voting there with him and there is zero wagon on R2R at this point in the game. If mav's reasons for voting VP are actually legit, which I think they are at that point in the game, then his only saving prayer is based on a GENERALITY of play rather than a RULE seen here:

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

Are you implying that the quiet people are all scum together, or is there some other logic to your assessment?

I'm saying there is more likely scum on the wagon than not.

And that is a HARD case to make to actually legitimize a read based off that.

[Quick]

I can go into further detail with this if I must.

Please don't. I would benefit more from the opposite: Please help me distill it.

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying NPOM is scummy because he was scumreading Atarashi and I in 253 (with R2R in his "not enough content" category), but moved his vote off of me onto R2R in 413 based on his assumption that there were lurk-scum voting for VP Baltar (427). You inferred from this vote switch that he was townreading me now, and he never explained this shift in his reads.

Is that correct?

If so, I would like NPOM to respond to that.

Quite. And like I said... He has every reason to stay on the current wagon because his TR (strongest?) is voting there with him whom he admits can made "good reads."

[Quick]

I'm not townreading Blair. I have her as null-town. When she was teaming with Atari she seemed scummy but she hasn't been doing that as of recent.

There's ZERO progression.

[Quick]

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

That makes zero sense.

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

nah

Game is just over 24 hours old

Your defense of his play is noted.

So join me then.

How about no because you can both be Scum here.

For the RECORD.

[Quick]

Still like my vote!

I did state a case on NPOM but not one person commented on it. Not really sure why that is.

OK, I give up, I can't find it. Please link your NPOM case?

All I found was this:

This is more or less my reads at this point.

Atarashi
mav, Gamma, Puppy
Dany, VP, Blair
votato
NPOM
R2R

But I would like to see what R2R brings to the table.

So this is my vote after analysis (seperate from what I have said ITT).

VOTE: NPOM

Unless your NPOM case came before your NPOM vote. I didn't go back much farther than that.

VOTE: nauci

Mindless comments.

Pro tip: get an avatar.

I'll consider it. I'm doordashing at the moment.

You don't understand, usually by now Blair has the class settled down and school is in session. You'll see I guess, or maybe not, don't want to poison the well here, (Sorry Blair!)

So you're saying in your past experience, Blair would be serious out of the gates? Want to make sure I'm interpreting correctly

Blair posts a lot in RVS, that's all, don't mean anything scummy implied

Quick looks like he's doing his own thing but i want him to explain his townread more so

VOTE: Quick

Sure let me try to.

As am experienced Scum he wouldn't think to take my advice seriously. That is why he "considered" doing it.

Then he said I had a good read. Make of that what you will.

Which pretty much implicates NPOM given he has experience playing as per his FoS and he never intended to get an avatar in the first place. This is Scum.

Weird reasoning, but think about it for a bit.

Plus, did you see how quickly he gave me a TR? Like, why does my tinfoil case he is TOWN a good read? Because I am pretty sure I said:

They will, watch.

AND:

Blair who's my scumbuddy? A page 4 game solution would be a new record.

NPOM -- FOS but no vote?

WTH he has no avatar.

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

That makes zero sense.

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

Are you implying that the quiet people are all scum together, or is there some other logic to your assessment?

He is saying they are Town for voting for someone who is never getting lynched this phase.

Plus, it means either his SR on Blair dissopated (with no progression) and that he is ignoring the VP wagon while even saying the people voting there are likely Town -1. At what point does NPOM make the "logical" choice just vote VP here? Does he TR VP or is the Town -1 mean there is no possibility of Bus or what? Cuz I am pretty sure NPOM knows Scum would for sure sit on a Scum early game if they don't intend to be active.

Good read.

Giving townreads is generally protown in my opinion as it opens yourself up to criticism

Why is everyone so scummy? Except Quick and Puppy.

Okay, I guess, just don't shut down Sus on yourself I guess

My previous case @Blair. I will admit I was going on a hunch but it turned out to be dead on because he didn't get an avatar until well after I said:

Blair who's my scumbuddy? A page 4 game solution would be a new record.

NPOM -- FOS but no vote?

WTH he has no avatar.

Which was WAY back at 179.

[Quick]

@Blair...

We totally smoked 'em.

[Quick]

unvote

Vote: Blair

VOTE: Blair

I would love to see Blair Tunnel this about now.

unvote

Vote: Blair

eggs, plain

Both of you: what votato said

Mine had a double meaning.

Way too much fun.

[Quick]

Also, thank you for asking me to build a case @Nauci.

[Quick]

It all depends on how good of a player NPOM is representing themselves to be. It seems to me they are representing themselves to be a pretty damn good player so that would mean he is just Scum here. If his level of play is high, then he should know he should have given a reason for TRing Blair. If on the other hand he is not representing himself as a good player, then it makes sense that he just made a derp. but I don't buy that for a second.

[Quick]

I never represented myself to be good. I'd say I am average in getting reads and below average in case bulding.

This is BS given you delayed giving your reason until here:

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

[Quick]

I still like my votato case, but we have some time and I want to try something else on for a moment

VOTE: ready2rock

oh really? why now? and why is this the thing you want to try?

i want to see what happens when r2r has to face a little more pressure

This only works if Puppy is Town and he knows he's Town.

[Quick]

What is bs.

Scum claim.

[Quick]

If this lynch goes through before Peter posts, then cop on them.

[Quick]

VOTE: ready2rock

VOTE: votato

VOTE: Votato

That's a really bad sequence. What changed there nauci? You thought the counterwagon for your buddy was r2r but then you realized it was me so you changed?

And the reason i asked not to hammer is the same reason r2r unvoted. I've seen way to many lolhammers recently. I'm OK with hammering this wagon. I'm not ok with waking up to find that there was a hammer without an opportunity for the defendant to respond

Reaction test before I went to bed sitting on the player I believed to be scum but that wouldn't be hammered before I woke up

What did you get out of your reaction test?

[Quick]

Looks like I am dead tonight unless there is an even moar spicy Scum case D1.

[Quick]

There’s no way votato/NPOM are scum buddies.

I disagree

I read votato as Town here. Like I said FOR VOTATO Effort=Town

[Quick]

And you have not escaped the leash Nauci. RN I have thee Scum team as NPOM, R2R and yourself.

[Quick]

And I decided to make my case on NPOM based on my super secret way of finding Scum. I just had to actually make a case to get him lynched.

[Quick]

Because like I said:

VOTE: NPOM

This is Scummy as shit. His reads make no sense.

[Quick]

VOTE: nauci

Mindless comments.

This should be worth looking at.

[Quick]

This game is solved by D3.

Just don't NK me.

Really tho, the Scum team is just NPOM, R2R, and Nauci.

NPOM's Town read on Nauci makes Zero sense at all given he admits it's just based on "gut".

[Quick]

Anyone could be faking anything. It's called gut feeling.

For reference.

[Quick]

Oh, I forgot to include Nauci into my analysis. It looks like she is exactly tied with you for Scummy behavior. (Yes, I have actually done math for this game.)

Then why switch your vote off her?

Because I didn't add her to the list is the only reason. I have all my data for it, I just forgot to add her to a list. So I was going off of everything without here included. Then I looked at my list and I made a read from there. I hadn't actually seen you interact much (as you only had 5 posts at the time of my calculation) so I wanted to see what more you brought to the table before voting there. At this point, I could very well go back to nauci, but honestly, after putting my vote on NPOM I just want to let it ride at this point and see who/if anyone follows me there. If there is a ton of resistance to the NPOM wagon then I will likely keep my vote there or go to one of my other SRs (you/Nauci). But it does appear that nothing is ruling out NPOM encouraging Nauci to Pocket me at this point, which I am pretty sure I can totally see NPOM coaching Nauci to do that in Scum chat.

And here's the thing that clears me if it it just NPOM, R2R, and Nauci

[Quick]

Which there was no follow up on.

[Quick]

Hey Puppy & Blair, how do you feel about VP B's contributions today? Primarily 517.

517 made me feel better about VP, though i think him and i just don't think the same way. Like, he implies that some earlier argument we had was about bussing, i thought he was low key softing, and i don't really understand this thing about r2r messing up a vote or something like that.

feel like my VP read was kinda null before, maybe it's a little more town now, i'm fine with that at this stage of game

btw why ask me and blair? Not sure how I feel about u tbh, you're the player i want to do an iso on most right now, help convince me that's a waste of time and you're obvtown

Because you 2 are my top town reads so I wanted to see if you felt the same way as I did about those posts, which is that they moved VP B from null to TR for me

all right, that sounds fine, makes sense.

And you have not escaped the leash Nauci. RN I have thee Scum team as NPOM, R2R and yourself.

quick, give me the scum case on nauci. i have a null read here but haven't seen much that screams scum. what does ur mafia scorecard have for this one, is there some obvious pattern here i'm missing

but now you say that votato is lean town, which means by your own logic that NPOM has to be scum, right? (see bolded.) so why are you torn on r2r/NPOM, isn't NPOM already looking scum to you just from votato/NPOM? Your process makes it look like Nauci is scummy for trying to have it both ways, but you look just as uncertain here

Actually he's saying that there cannot be 2 scum within votato/NPOM, but doesn't eliminate the possibility that there are 2 town there, so there's not a hole in his logic (just his premises).

so do u think mav suspects u for bad reasons or misguided ones? there's a difference

The long and short of it is that Nauci is TMIing me and making pretty explicit Pocket attempts at me.

[Quick]

If you look at Nauci's reads list, that is a complete tell of the Buddy attempt given Nauci knows I like to be different/unpredictable/unique, which I do like to be those things. Plush she admits she had meta dived me so she has every reason to budy me with a TMI read on me.

[Quick]

Plus, her Reads list came WAY too early in the game to be genuine.

[Quick]

Quick's sure fire determinations based on absolutely nothing are getting a little tiresome.

Now you are just LOLCatting.

[Quick]

I still like my votato case, but we have some time and I want to try something else on for a moment

VOTE: ready2rock

oh really? why now? and why is this the thing you want to try?

i want to see what happens when r2r has to face a little more pressure

This only works if Puppy is Town and he knows he's Town.

I'm sorry Quick but can you long-form explain this one too?

No. Puppy is just Town.

[Quick]

And you have not escaped the leash Nauci. RN I have thee Scum team as NPOM, R2R and yourself.

Lol is this supposed to intimidate me or something

No, it's meant to emphasize who the Scum team is.

[Quick]

Quick likes to use the throw crap on the wall and see what sticks theory.

Please just post a cat picture if you are going to do this.

[Quick]

Can we just end the day already? I am pretty sure we have this won at this point.

Peter is free to throw down the hammer.

[Quick]

Anyone could be faking anything. It's called gut feeling.

For reference.

This is technically a misrepresentation

His read on me is one of the few times he gave a reason (in the posts just before that he says it's because I was worried about being biased about Blair and he thought that was more likely to come from town? Idk I'm mobile posting so I'm not checking for exact quotes.) He only says it's gut feeling when asked why when it could be faked, and I think he meant gut feeling in the way that any of us can only really make any of our reads because of gut feeling?

I think it was way too minor a thing to give a fairly strong read for and that it was potentially lazing pocketing to get me off of his back, but that doesn't make it accurate to say he only gave "gut feeling" as the basis at that point

:eyebrows:

[Quick]

TMIing

?

So glad you understand me so well.

[Quick]

I stand by my reads and NPOM is eating rope today.

One of the very few phone posts I have made on this forum so it Probably doesn't make sense, but I stand by it regardless. Plus I've demonstrated my posts have reasoning behind them So you can just take me at my word now.

[Quick]

- Quick's "system to destroy scum" is, um, problematic at best.... mostly because it's far too complex to consistently yield anything coherent. After a quick scan, I couldn't tell you what the actual decision tree would be with such a system.

Nope! It's a proven method, which I cannot talk about.

[Quick]

NPOM -- I asked you if you think Quick is scum based on your comment to Nauci. Please answer that.

Quick -- We can agree to disagree. I thought your system makes some valid points, but overall I agree with your own assessment that it's subjective...and that's the problem. Meanwhile: lol r2r, amirite?

Bro, it's just PoE + accounting for Posts. Really nothing to it.

[Quick]

Personally I think you should hold off of any hammers until the replacement is here.

Because ofc you want to find a way to weasel out of your lynch.

[Quick]

NPOM -- I asked you if you think Quick is scum based on your comment to Nauci. Please answer that.

Quick -- We can agree to disagree. I thought your system makes some valid points, but overall I agree with your own assessment that it's subjective...and that's the problem. Meanwhile: lol r2r, amirite?

Bro - it's PROVEN to catch Scum, JFYI.

[Quick]

NPOM -- I asked you if you think Quick is scum based on your comment to Nauci. Please answer that.

Quick -- We can agree to disagree. I thought your system makes some valid points, but overall I agree with your own assessment that it's subjective...and that's the problem. Meanwhile: lol r2r, amirite?

Bro - it's PROVEN to catch Scum, JFYI.

What's your lynching record?

Not going to entertain this with a response. I've cased you with a slip AND by the numbers you are Scum. Nice try though.

[Quick]

I've cased you with a slip

Which slip was it?

You said it was a slip, not me

[Quick]

Ah ok, that one.

I was afraid you had a juicy new one you were holding out on!

I don't really think many things are actually slips, I just wanted to see if you would pick up on what I said.

[Quick]

VOTE: ready2rock

I'll throw this puppy a bone; we have plenty of time left

Town unite!

VOTE: ready2rock

Scum claims by forcing the wagon between the better Scum player and the worse one.

[Quick]

Why are NoPowerOverMe, Ready2Rock, and votato wagons?

Town unite!

VOTE: ready2rock

What made you switch votes, was it because it looks like you two are the only viable wagons right now?

Because the Scum team is NPOM, R2R, and Nauci. Dead serious.

[Quick]

Anything Quick says to do you should do the exact opposite. Serious.

Thanks.

[Quick]

When you get to your reread, I would request that you try to develop reads on Quick and Gamma, as I have struggled to extract reads on these two players from others.

I have Gamma as Town as per my super secret method of sorting Town/Scum. Their posts produce meaningful content.

[Quick]

Dunn, feel free to hammer NPOM.

[Quick]

Dunn, feel free to hammer NPOM.

or maybe not. could let people talk for a couple more days before deadline. come on quick.

No, I am sure on this. Nothing about NPOM's responses seem like Town to me.

[Quick]

Dunn, feel free to hammer NPOM.

or maybe not. could let people talk for a couple more days before deadline. come on quick.

No, I am sure on this. Nothing about NPOM's responses seem like Town to me.

can you think of a time in the past where you've been sure and wrong? and where's the harm in letting people talk for a few more days? if we get a scum flip thats more to go on in later days. if we get a town flip thats still more to go on in later days.

votato, why are you making sense rn?

[Quick]

I've lead wagons against Atari and R2R. Right now I'm focused on townhunting. I don't need to be told how to play, but thank you.

So who is Scum? Go on, tell us...

[Quick]

If the thread stalls, we need to lynch.