newbie 2080: correct statements (this is over)

[DArby]

Good afternoon everyone. I wish a good game for everyone involved.

VOTE: Roden

[DArby]

Hi folks! It's time to break NewD3!

Tracker, please claim. It's not advantageous to scum to claim Tracker.

Can you elaborate?

[DArby]

tracker, don’t claim just yet for the love of god

Yeah I'm going to second this one chief

[DArby]

ha ha how did I mix up italics and bold
I surely should know better
it isn’t like it’s hard
really!

anyway, with that out of the way, VOTE: DArby
for being the last one to /in and getting us into this darn game

And if you happen to be scum by all means we can remove you as swiftly as possible if you're not satisfied

[DArby]

y’know, I always thought Ringo was the least interesting of the Beatles

VOTE: Spangled

[DArby]

I don't like putting too much stock in meta-gaming this early when we're still in RVS. Can we put a pin in this and come back to it late d1 or sometime d2? I don't see the point of putting this much energy in the 1/3 chance there even is a tracker and an even smaller chance said tracker would want to cooperate.

[DArby]

VOTE: Thynhith

Lack of vowels. That's going to be annyoing.

y’know, I always thought Ringo was the least interesting of the Beatles

VOTE: Spangled

..and we get to E-1 on page 3 - darby did you know that spangled was at E-2 before you voted him?

I misread. I thought his vote put Thynhith at E-1
UNVOTE:

[DArby]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13027567]
I understand your hesitance, but it's something we kinda have to decide on sooner rather than later if it's going to work.[/quote]
Then should we put it to a vote so we don’t have to worry about it being half assed or not.

[DArby]

I understand your hesitance, but it's something we kinda have to decide on sooner rather than later if it's going to work.

Then should we put it to a vote so we don’t have to worry about it being half assed or not.

EBWOP. Jeez.

[DArby]

y’know, I always thought Ringo was the least interesting of the Beatles

VOTE: Spangled

so who was the least interesting, if not Ringo, huh?
thinks ringo’s the most interesting beatle = scummy
VOTE: DArby

I never said I disagreed with you but that doesn’t mean I like it.

[DArby]

VOTE: Spangled

Trying to make sense of it all is a scum tell.

Didn't read Cook's stuff.

VOTE: spangled

Wait what you voted for him twice in a row. Why are you tunneling him? Am I missing something?

I understand your hesitance, but it's something we kinda have to decide on sooner rather than later if it's going to work.

Then should we put it to a vote so we don’t have to worry about it being half assed or not.

EBWOP. Jeez.

Yeah, I think that’s not a bad idea. I’d like Cook to explain it a little more first.

In the meantime, DArby, what do you think of Galron?

I feel Galron's anti-town but I dunno if that makes him scum. Yet.

[DArby]

Didn't read Cook's stuff.

VOTE: spangled

Also why not read it? Very much anti-town

VOTE: Galron

[DArby]

This looks good.
Worst case we have a bulletproof IC, best case we can do a good ol’ follow the cop.
Should we be no-limming today?
What about if we get a cop claim or not-blocked tracker D2? do we lim then? ‘cause we might hit the doc
and if we get a cop claim, they might be masons — doesn’t that possibility throw a spanner in the works?

I don't think Ringo was the Crowell. But I will say that George is the most interesting, or at least deepest. Ringo did some good work in the 70s, and some of it, like Goodnight Vienna, was with help with his former bandmates. But probably the best thing he did was the All-Star Band, inviting different musicians in.

But after you're a Beatle, wtf is expected of you anyway? I'm happy Ringo cleansed his body and cleansed his soul. I wish John had had the same opportunity.

heh true
the Beatles could have laid back all the rest of their lives and we wouldn’t have the right to think ill of them

I watched an interesting movie, called Yesterday, a bit ago, that wonders, what if suddenly, for everyone but this random budding musician, the Beatles had never existed, or rather, never gotten together as a band?
and y’know the protagonist, this budding musician, goes and meets one of the Beatles who was never a Beatle, and asks him if he’s had a good life

I don’t know where I was going with that, but it was very interesting

I want to watch that move, but I'm afraid that I won't be able to supress my pendatic soul.

it’s a trouble, being a pedant, isn’t it?
I just can’t watch the Hobbit trilogy without being in pain for about half of it, because damnit it’s just so wrong
so so wrong

But Galron — what do you think of Cook’s plan, now that she’s outlined it in this thread?

I can't case you on two pages, but these two posts are +scum.

I disagree and this read doesn't feel natural to me.

[DArby]

Why do you think Galron’s anti-town, DArby?
like he’s voting me, but what has he done that’s anti-town?

It’s less that he’s voting you and more so that he voted twice for the same person in a row. Sure he doesn’t have to read everything but if he doesn’t want to read it provide something to counter the main discussion. Though, how can he have the second highest post count and not have anything substantial to say on the matter?

It all feels like anti-town busywork. I’ll take a look at his meta sometime in the next 24 hours and see if this is how he plays but I don’t trust it.

Before I sleep:

@Galron: why are you apathetic? How would you rather scum hunt?

[DArby]

I don't really have a handle on this game yet. Well, maybe a little. I'll let Will Geer in on this; I mean that was six or seven seasons on the Walons and he almost always had a line on everyone in the cast.

Truth be told, I'm not so much of a scum hunter as a town hunter. I can spot a John Boy. But if you want me to find an Ashley Longworth, Sr or Jr, it takes me a bit of work.

Sorry, I don't get this reference, but I'll see how well this holds up.

yeah, I get you on the whiteknighting, and what’s more I agree; I don’t think DArby is whiteknighting me, since it seems more targeted

at

Galron than defending

me

especially since he’s disagreed with me a couple times already in-thread

^ This

Aside from anything else, I did the math in Newbie2076 and showed empirically that it's a terrible strat.

The fact that Cook is pushing it, after having pushed it as scum, despite, according to Cook, it not being advantageous to scum, makes me think Cook understands it's a bad strat

VOTE: Cook

I agree. If this is a plan that can be pushed by scum and say it's an advantage for town then it's not as advantageous to town as claimed. I'm fine with skipping this plan.

@MargotRosa Can I see your math?

[DArby]

I want to hear what Thynhith thinks of you so I can better, or at all, read them.

Guessing his answer didn't do much for your read? If it did, please enlighten me.

I thought it was funny how he looked like he didn’t want the strategy to be done, because it helped him when he was scum, but then kinda said, ‘I understand your hesitance, but it's something we kinda have to decide on sooner rather than later if it's going to work’, which read like he was supporting it to me. But other than that he hasn’t said much or done much; maybe some slight townpoints for pointing out to us the games where your strategy was implemented (or not) and for saying that no one should VT-claim, but that’s inside anyone’s scumrange

He’s in the null-basket, but what can you expect for 6 posts, I guess

Roden's first 6 posts were arguably more useful for town than my first 3, and he's a null whereas I'm top of the list. It just doesn't sit right with me, I dunno.

But yes, Cook's idea; I'm not that keen on it. I feel like a lot of things would need to go right after we out one or both town PR's and it's needlessly giving scum information. Without any further ado, so far we have

FOR: Cook, Spangled

AGAINST: Roden, MargotRosa, DArby, Thynhith, Facebones

COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT: Galron, Mewtaph

It's a done deal then. I don't think this has been a waste of time though. I feel we can make good readings from these in other day phases.

However that doesn't do much for this day so VOTE: Cook

[DArby]

DArby i dislike for not having faith

Excuse my hesitation in a game of deception.

[DArby]

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

[DArby]

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

so do you no longer scumread Galron? why not?
and what is it about Cook that’s scummy?
what about me?

I never said I stopped scumreading Galron, but they're lesser on my radar. 160 doesn't look good from Cook. I want to wait to expand on my reading of you.

I very much so dislike that PoE from DArby.

Very much so dislike it.

I'm not surprised. How do you want to proceed with the day now?

[DArby]

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

So are these two just the scum team to you? Or are you just certain there's one scum between them?

I’m more sure on Cook than Spangled.

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

There's a week left for D1 - why are you trying to raise a wagon, or get people to agree to one, this early? Very odd how you're jumping the gun like this. And you haven't posted why you read them as scum, now or before. Your post feels like scum fishing for support.
I'd quote some of your previous posts, but there aren't any relevant. Wanting to lock on an elim this early is not town behavior
VOTE: DArby

I see it the opposite way. Roughly four days have passed with little happening. I don’t think it’s right to say pushing for a wagon is scummy because I’m interacting with the only two real people of suspicion. Spangled is getting townread for a high post count when a vast majority are asking questions and then responding to those questions

after

someone answered. I don’t see that as towny. I don’t want blind trust to build. I don’t see how Cook can post a strategy she tried as a scum in a previous game (24) and it not seem more suspicious? I take back my post 160 claim, though. I read it again and I think my read was the only emotional one which tainted the rest of my read of the post.

You said you’d quote more but you can’t. What do you mean specifically?

I stand by 181. I don’t see how getting unsubstantial reads and asking light questions is scum hunting. I think we need to get real reactions with real pressure.

Giving Roden a town read.

galron I'm not sure how you came to that read after only 5 posts, can you explain your thinking? you mentioned you were a "town hunter" before

Now you're here Galron, still waiting to see why you townread Roden?

A little more familiarty with him.

so what is it about his behaviour or tone that suggests he’s playing to his town meta and not his scum meta?

Nothing in particular. Just a feeling.

Didn’t Roden literally just won newbie 2076 virtually unquestioned as scum singlehandedly? (congrats btw) Galron is still on my radar.

[DArby]

Spangled is getting townread for a high post count when a vast majority are asking questions and then responding to those questions

after

someone answered.

mate, I did that

once

sorry, that’s just such a silly misrep

It's really not but allow me to elaborate and clarify.

The emphasis was supposed to be that a huge chunk your post count is you asking questions. The italics were there to show that you add back and forth with your responses which also brings up your content size. I meant it as a "but wait there's more" kinda way. When writing that last part 110 and 142 came to mind. But again, that wasn't supposed to be the real argument.

You are being townread by content size in 160, 189, and I don't think it's a stretch to add 196 by 1/3 of the participants. I'm critical of that because i fail to see how "sheer content" is a townleaning thing.

[DArby]

You are being townread by content size in 160, 189, and I don't think it's a stretch to add 196 by 1/3 of the participants. I'm critical of that because i fail to see how "sheer content" is a townleaning thing.

actually no let me respond to this one and then go away and then come back

so let me get this straight, I’m scummy because other people are townreading me for a bad reason?

No but I do feel your reaction is a bit suspicious to how I'm pushing you. I've never once said I scumread you. I have said that I think you're townread isn't earned and I think you should be pushed for it. My specific wording in 202 was that, "I don’t want blind trust to build." The fact that you're reading that as me scumreading you is interesting because I'm not saying what you think I'm saying.

Now I am scumreading you a bit, yes, but not because other people are townreading you.

[DArby]

DArby! a jojo’s fan and thus inherently suspect
ahem
It sounded like he had a strong scumread on Galron at the start, pulling out strong phrases like ‘anti-town busywork’, and he promised to take a look at Galron’s meta, but it never really materialised
I don’t get why that hasn’t been revisited
but I guess there hasn’t been much time in which to do that anyway, and what do I even expect from a ‘revisit’
I have to be careful of OMGUSing him here, really, but I did think it was weird when he went straight for Cook and me in a kind of, ‘alright wagon time’ when there are two/three slots not doing much and one of which hasn’t even repped in
at least wait for Mewtaph’s replacement to establish some kind of presence, dear lord
I do think his reason for scumreading me could easily come from town, though, and his critique of me so far as ‘giving unsubstantial reads and asking light questions’ is fair
in response, it’s hard to dig deeper when people keep not answering those same ‘light’ questions
I don’t know, I’ll throw him in the null basket

First, unrelated, but yoooooo JoJo ᕙ(˵ ಠ ਊ ಠ ˵)ᕗ

Second, I'm not going to wait to actually play the game until everyone else feels good and ready. If assuming you're town, I get what you're trying to do but it's not really my style. Why pay with time to go after inactive slots when I can get the source of content for free?

Third, my opinions are going to change when I get new information. I developed a lesser read on Galron and decided that wasn't going to get me where i wanted to go.

[DArby]

After articulating my issues, I'm now a little bit more confident in seeing a red flip with respect to Spangled than I am Cook, although it is close, and I do think it's possible that's just the scumpair, gg.

It's late here, so I will sleep on it and revisit in the morning; but I am giving consideration to moving my vote to Spangled in order to properly indicate how I feel here. I'll also try and give some thoughts on the other slots.

I feel so validated right now.

A bit too validated if you ask me.

Regardless, I think we'd get more from a Cook d1 flip than a Spangled d1 flip.

[DArby]

I've never once said I scumread you.

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

My point still stands

[DArby]

I've never once said I scumread you.

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

My point still stands

pffft come on

I say that somewhat jokingly.

This is nothing personal against your play-style but I wanted to push you to see what'd I'd find and sadly i don't think it was incredibly town of you.

[DArby]

I still disagree voting for Spangled d1. I think we can get more d2 out of him than Cook. Cook posted but hasn’t said anything to defend herself. I don’t like that.

[DArby]

Also I feel Val is being a bit too WIFOM. I’m not going to make it that deep. If you do something scummy you should be voted accordingly unless new information comes to light.

[DArby]

I will literally cry if Cook and Val are actually the scum pair and Val is playing 3D chess to save their scum buddy.

[DArby]

@schadd: Val changed his vote to Spangled in 268

[DArby]

nothing productive to say

the strategy was legitimate and i got a red role pm the first time and i'm not gonna debate why i said things in a past game because we're playing to solve this game not a previous one

particularly helpful because not everyone who was in that game is in this game, and because of one crucial detail that differences that game and this one

i have a green role pm

I’m sorry but how is it a legitimate strategy to help town when you actively used it as scum? Your motive of the previous game does matter because your strat inherently relies on meta-gaming. Meta-reading you and your intention of the last game is imperative to understanding your goals in this one. The last game is a topic of this one, and therefore is relevant because this is a game of defending things you say.

We’re beyond the topic of its utility. Now we’re moving to figuring out what you were trying to do with your plan.

Not to mention you’re not even at E-2. Why are you bolding your alignment like it’s a role reveal? That comes across like an appeal to emotion than an actual argument and this entire post feels like you’re dodging rightful criticism.

This is why I’d rather move Spangled to d2. He doesn’t dodge questions.

[DArby]

Darby

First scum lean, and it's a hard scum lean.

14 and 15 are ISO filler, and the trend continues. Continuing RVS on page 3, and casually bringing Spangled to e-1 60 looks very bad.

Filler continuing through 72 73 74.

I'd also note that I initially overlooked 116 because I was just pleased someone immediately agreed with me, but it’s definitely scummy in retrospect, especially given the habit that is developing of just jumping around and quickly sheeping anything that bites.

What? Lol. 60 I get but everything else is a stretch. 14-15 happened during RVS. I don’t know what you wanted from me less than 20 posts in? 73 is a correction of 72 which was me actively wanting to get finished with the game breaking talk. Which I followed through with. 74 was expanding on my last RVS vote which was done in error. How is any of that filler? The actual irony of mine and Spangled’s read is not lost on me.

And I’m getting scumread because…I was presented with new information? I never even wanted to do the plan. That’s just…so silly.

I’ll give you 60 but that’s the only thing that makes any sense on my read. I think the Spangled read is objectively worse but I’ve said enough on that already.

[DArby]

I have been and I am suffering from a pretty severe stomach bug
idk if this merits V/LA but I’ll definitely post less for the next day or so, sorry
just as a heads-up, I guess

Hope you feel better dude!

[DArby]

Cook. You’re now at e-2. If you have any better defense nows the time to use it. We only have 3 days left.

[DArby]

let's not do my strategy this game

next time sure

not this one

i've tried to make it clear by my disinterest in my own wagon that you're in the wrong place

uhh

no thoughts

head empty

this is not an optimal way to try to talk your fellow players down

Okay, that’s all the time I’ve got. I got to get back to playing Animal Crossing New Leaf on my Nintendo 3DS.

Let's just end this day plz n thk u

[DArby]

I'll be incredibly disappointed if Cook flips green and only joined this game to break a newbie setup vs actually scumhunting.

Like so disappointed.

[DArby]

Fuck me sideways and call me Susan I actually want to get off the wagon I've been pushing all d1.

Eh, I'll sleep on it.

[DArby]

Fuck me sideways and call me Susan I actually want to get off the wagon I've been pushing all d1.

Eh, I'll sleep on it.

I had this thought soo many times, I'm glad someone else said it as well. Tell us tomorrow how you're thinking, eh?
I'm so fucking paranoid that there's going to be a surprise scum

The more I think about it the more I feel d1 was a waste and Spangled is on to something kind of. So much of d1 is NAI. However, if Cook isn’t scum she’s absolutely anti-town this game. I’m willing to take out this slot. I’m not going to defend a slot that won’t defend themselves.

[DArby]

Margot really doesn't like rvs.

Nope. Honestly, especially when it's a slow game, anyone still doing it after page 2 is automatically on my radar for time wasting

D1 is about to end do you have a finished reads list?

[DArby]

The naked unvote of Margot when she is in no danger at all can be nothing more than an unspoken "I like what you are saying" signal. I have to be careful I am not falling for confirmation bias here, but I wonder what exactly it is about Margots posting that Cook is trying to signal she likes. I'm wondering if anyone else has any gut instinct on what it might be, just so I can be a bit more confident I'm not confbiasing here?

This might have been missed amongst everything else I posted, since nobody has proferred an answer.

Anyone have any thoughts on what Cook was trying to signal with the naked unvote on Margot at 290?

I wasn’t surprised; it comes across as the same way that the slot has been playing. It looks the same level of scum as the rest of her plays. Whether or not she just gave up on playing a real game is to be determined.

Wait I need to count but you just hammered, Margot?

[DArby]

This game is super quiet. Thanks, Val, for putting in the effort. Your work on cook seems solid. Somehow it still feels like lhf, but it's a decent case.

VOTE: Cook

OH MY GOD GALRON VOTED TWICE AGAIN

[DArby]

It's E-1, not hammer just yet.

I'll buckle my seatbelt and strap in for the lesson on how Cook intends to play out of her fake claiming playbook when she has already published said playbook to the world, and announce

intent to hammer.

Lmao yeah I’ve been trying to vote count on my phone. Why are you voting like this Galron?

Also just hammer Val. Cook is here and is clear she doesn’t have anything of substance.

[DArby]

Can someone who has a clearer idea of DArby's meta please tell me if the slightest little tic in my head telling me that his last three/four posts are indeed scum indicative actually is corroborated by his game style?

I don’t have a meta. Yet.

[DArby]

Dark and mysterious. I love it. MafiaScum going back to its hard-boiled noir detective fiction roots

*tips fedora darkly*

Also just hammer Val. Cook is here and is clear she doesn’t have anything of substance.

Understand the sentiment, really I do, but I've seen that go wrong before.

I won't let her just stall us all night, but she gets a reasonable chance to make a claim at E-1, if that is what she is going to do.

Fair enough. It’s your hammer.

[DArby]

ugh

UNVOTE:

We have three days, and I'm honestly more interested at this point with what I'm doing d2

What? Shouldn’t you be putting more focus on reading more of the game like you said you wanted to do? I don’t see how waiting until the limit is helpful. Unless cook role claims we’re just stalling at this point.

[DArby]

What? Shouldn’t you be putting more focus on reading more of the game like you said you wanted to do? I don’t see how waiting until the limit is helpful. Unless cook role claims we’re just stalling at this point.

This just isn't true. I have played games in which hard and fast eliminations happen, but they happened because it was bleedingly obvious who scum was, and everyone was in solid agreement about it

That's not true here. I imagine Cook will be eliminated. But this isn't a situation in which it's obviously justifiable to cut d1 short by 3 days

What are you looking to happen for the next 3 days?

[DArby]

If anyone hammers right now, I will tunnel you to kingdom come tomorrow

I disagree with the direction you’re going in but I’m curious
UNVOTE:

[DArby]

The fact we don't have a tracker claim as a pretty obvious start

What? No? Why would a potential tracker claim if there’s not even a plan for them to rely on?

[DArby]

The fact we don't have a tracker claim as a pretty obvious start

What? No? Why would a potential tracker claim if there’s not even a plan for them to rely on?

I know! It's a wild, obviously bad play. Who the hell would do that? But that's the strategy that she lines out in the scum PT. If there is no tracker claim, a member of scum needs to fake claim tracker

Oh shit.

Wait no but tracker still wouldn’t claim even as scum. If we assume Cook is scum and uses her scum buddy to claim tracker, why would they still follow through if roughly half of the game is against it? That’d be really suspicious.

[DArby]

The thing that changed my mind in the Scum PT is that Scum Cook here makes sense to me only if she thinks that her strategy is weighted towards Scum, and only Scum.

But she doesn't. She thinks it works for both. Which she states in the one place that you can trust everything she has to say - a scum PT.

That's fukn bizarre. It's ludicrous. It's obviously wrong. And if she believes that, what other fukn wild things does she believe?

This is all so aggressively WIFOM and defensive for a slot that is anti-tow.

VOTE: Cook

[DArby]

VOTE: Cook

Just in case.

I cannot stress enough how much this made me laugh

[DArby]

VOTE: Cook

Just in case.

I cannot stress enough how much this made me laugh

Cook is now at 6 votes. I think I got all the double and un-votes

[DArby]

Regardless of how Cook flips I'm pushing the fuck out of Facebones d2. Then Spangled.

[DArby]

My read on Roden will also shift depending on Cook's flip

[DArby]

Which is why I think, still, that she's likely Town.

Who would be your other preference for elim D1 then?

To be completely honest with you, I think my earlier assessment that the tracker claim has meant that d1 is a write off that can realistically only end with COok's elimination would remain true either way, and it's not worth fighting anymore.

DArby is not great, Facebones isn't great, you aren't all that great either.

I'm so fine with being scum-read but again there's only one thing that makes sense in your read of me and you never expanded past that. Did anything evolve past page 5?

[DArby]

What a pagetop.

Also, I started the Cook votes. Don't get ahead of yourself Val

That's such a bad argument tho and you know it.

[DArby]

What a pagetop.

Also, I started the Cook votes. Don't get ahead of yourself Val

That's such a bad argument tho and you know it.

It's not. Every post I made up until 162 is encouraging Town to vote Cook

I mean you know very well that scum can bus their own partner. Being first doesn't always mean being town.

[DArby]

I need to think this over a bit.

Also Roden, just no. Anyone else. It's not Spangled.

For right now, I am going to park my vote on my number 2 most likely to be scum

VOTE: DArby

This implies that if Cook is town that you think they're wrong about more or less everything though.

I get why you're so insistent about why Spangled is town but a Darby vote just feels off.

Is Darby above suspicion for you?

Can someone who has a clearer idea of DArby's meta please tell me if the slightest little tic in my head telling me that his last three/four posts are indeed scum indicative actually is corroborated by his game style?

From val:

Spoiler:

"I'm townreading DArby. I think I got a little advantage on this one because I replaced in. I was reading a game already in progress, and while doing so, I found on more than one occasion the thoughts and questions I had were being often asked by DArby a couple of posts later. I've found this in other games and considered it a towntell, and it hasn't let me down yet. He also seems to be trying to drive the day towards an elimination even if have a slight disagreement on whom is the better choice for today (cf 181, 270). That might not always be a +town thing, but it has been directed against legitimately scummy players, and I think scum would be more content to let this game stall out a bit, which it has potential to do."

I don't exactly agree with this tho - at least my gut doesn't. Something about him just doesn't sit right with me, but has dropped nearly no tells, which makes me suspect smart scumplay.

I'm just simply built like this.

[DArby]

I would argue that being first on wagon means very little if you then attempt to derail it when it takes off.

This is all conditional on a red flip of course, but I think it's obvious that is what we are about to see.

I'm not really sold myself.

I think it's the only logical conclusion though.

[DArby]

Galron has been killed in the night! he was a

vanilla townie

!

I’m sorry

what

[DArby]

On one hand we still have both scum but on the other we have both power roles.

VOTE: Val

Why are you still alive?

[DArby]

Galron has been killed in the night! he was a

vanilla townie

!

I’m sorry

what

I agree, this is weird as hell. I can't think about it too much, or else my brain will snap and the game will never end

I want to put a pin in this and come back to this d3. I think this is a very intentional nk. But why?

I need to heavily re-evaluate my read list.

[DArby]

Also Facebones don't think you're safe too. You're a huge area of focus for me.

[DArby]

@Darby why D3? We should be focusing on it this day. Not sure why you want to delay - your attitude is scummy to me

That doesn't surprise me.

I want to delay it d3 because we don't have an established pattern of night kills and I feel it's intentional misdirect but I can't prove it. I

really

don't want to have a d1 2.0 where it's filled with WIFOM.

[DArby]

Also -- I want to hold out on elem'ing Spangled right now. I'd rather push and get more content before we circle back to that.

[DArby]

@Darby why D3? We should be focusing on it this day. Not sure why you want to delay - your attitude is scummy to me

That doesn't surprise me.

I want to delay it d3 because we don't have an established pattern of night kills and I feel it's intentional misdirect but I can't prove it. I

really

don't want to have a d1 2.0 where it's filled with WIFOM.

Perhaps, perhaps. I see your point - scum gains nothing directly from killing Galron, so it's possible they're trying to throw us off. Better to ignore Galron's NK for now. In the meantime I'll read over Galron's iso

The whiplash tho.

What happened to you wanting to break this down today?

[DArby]

This game is super quiet. Thanks, Val, for putting in the effort. Your work on cook seems solid. Somehow it still feels like lhf, but it's a decent case.

VOTE: Cook

would appreciate someone explaining what lhf means?

low hanging fruit?

[DArby]

I will get a somewhat-detailed readslist out sometime later today, if possible
not that you need to know that, but everyone needs something to look forward to, in their day

I don't like this post, but it may be a style thing.

I'm townleaning spangles.

I find this so funny. Galron made a really great point and then backtracked so hard. Spangled was absolutely in mind with this NK. Whether as scum or the area of misdirect I dunno.

Bleh. WIFOM.

[DArby]

I will get a somewhat-detailed readslist out sometime later today, if possible
not that you need to know that, but everyone needs something to look forward to, in their day

I don't like this post, but it may be a style thing.

I'm townleaning spangles.

I find this so funny. Galron made a really great point and then backtracked so hard. Spangled was absolutely in mind with this NK. Whether as scum or the area of misdirect I dunno.

Bleh. WIFOM.

[DArby]

Not a fan all the "wtf why Galron" reactions, I've done that so many times as scum.

I'm glad he wasn't pocketing me in the end but his death felt like a newbie mistake. Which yeah obviously this is a newbie game, but Galron ended the day hinting that he was going to protect Val. I don't think a PR would be so blatant, but newbscum high on an easy mis-elim might go for it.

I don't think Val is scum here as I'd expect him to kill me or Margot, since I labeled their back and forth as TvT. I think I'd actually be a pretty good kill since it would be low info and make it look like Galron had TMI'd that I was town. For that reason I'd also expect Margot to kill Val, so I don't think she's scum either.

I don't think we should focus too much on the nk right now. Just because you labeled it as TvT doesn't mean a kill of the other is the only logical conclusion. I'd think that'd place a lot of suspicion on the other actually because they had such a spat. But again, WIFOM.

What changed on your reads list?

[DArby]

Also I think it'd be weird to hide behind a kill from an argument off of one slot with one post saying it's TvT.

[DArby]

I still don't like Darby.

[DArby]

Honestly it was smostly gut, but bolstered somewhat by Darby coming in immediately after thread reopened to instantly direct conversation to be about something very specific

I got off of work 3 hours early and I have a limited social life I don't know what to tell you.

[DArby]

@Darby why D3? We should be focusing on it this day. Not sure why you want to delay - your attitude is scummy to me

That doesn't surprise me.

I want to delay it d3 because we don't have an established pattern of night kills and I feel it's intentional misdirect but I can't prove it. I

really

don't want to have a d1 2.0 where it's filled with WIFOM.

Perhaps, perhaps. I see your point - scum gains nothing directly from killing Galron, so it's possible they're trying to throw us off. Better to ignore Galron's NK for now. In the meantime I'll read over Galron's iso

The whiplash tho.

What happened to you wanting to break this down today?

maybe what you said convinced thynhith, or at least gave them a new idea or stance on it?
why are you jumping on that, there?

Hey hope you’re feeling better

And it felt weird that she didn’t expand or defend her position. She elaborated so there’s nothing more to comment on.

[DArby]

Val’s still alive because scum killed Galron for crumbing.

I wrote a post but it got deleted because I’m a dumbass. Im also a hypocrite because all my reads shifted because of the nk. Im aware of Roden’s post but this hammered it to me.

VOTE: Facebones

Thynhith is on thin ice.

Val and Margot are almost locked town (unrelated to Roden’s read)

Everyone else is null to me.

Galron was killed either because of misdirect or because of crumbing. Crumbing makes the most sense but it’s a stretch to read that as crumbing. I don’t see Val or Margot making that mistake given their disagreement d1 being so meta. I really don’t see anyone making that mistake. Except the one person who barely posted and isn’t used to Galrons posting habits. Thynhith Is harder to justify because I’m tired but this is my current read list.

[DArby]

Val’s still alive because scum killed Galron for crumbing.

crumbs:
45’s ‘fall in crumb’, next post he links ‘fooled around and fell in love’
in 53 he basically goes, to my mind look at me look at me, I am the cop! with ‘if I find anyone tonight to guilty, I'll probably hold onto it until Day 3 just to see what kind of scramble Day 2 is.’

maybe I’m misreading 53 somewhat? or maybe it was even supposed to be ambiguous wording?, but 45 is obviously supposed to be a crumb

See, I suppose this is where I differ from this school of thought that Galron was crumbing. This is the same slot that voted for the same person twice in a row, on accident.

The same person who Val pointed out said:

I'm interested in the fluff:substance ratio.

wrt to Spangled, whoever pointed out fluff to substance ratio got me thinking

The same person who just simply did not decide to read, counter, or contribute to anything that was being said during the early Cook talks because of "laziness" (94)

I mean this with the least disrespect possible but the idea of Galron being a power role did not cross my mind once. All crumbs are irrelevant from an unreliable poster.

[DArby]

Not a fan all the "wtf why Galron" reactions, I've done that so many times as scum.

I'm glad he wasn't pocketing me in the end but his death felt like a newbie mistake. Which yeah obviously this is a newbie game, but Galron ended the day hinting that he was going to protect Val. I don't think a PR would be so blatant, but newbscum high on an easy mis-elim might go for it.

I don't think Val is scum here as I'd expect him to kill me or Margot, since I labeled their back and forth as TvT. I think I'd actually be a pretty good kill since it would be low info and make it look like Galron had TMI'd that I was town. For that reason I'd also expect Margot to kill Val, so I don't think she's scum either.

I don't think we should focus too much on the nk right now. Just because you labeled it as TvT doesn't mean a kill of the other is the only logical conclusion. I'd think that'd place a lot of suspicion on the other actually because they had such a spat. But again, WIFOM.

What changed on your reads list?

My perspective on the TvT scenario is that if Margot or Val have one scum between them, killing the other or me makes more sense than killing Galron. I don't believe either would ever believe Galron's fake crumbs, and removing the opposing force through a NK rather than a mis-elim gets their hands a lot less dirty.

Also, I'll be honest, I initially thought one of them was bussing Cook. They were both fighting to be the one that "caught" Cook and get the town cred for voting her out, and I was low key hoping by calling them TvT that they would keep me alive as a potential pocket, when in reality I was going to hard accuse that Cook got bussed. But with her flipping town, not only was there not a bus after all, neither scum!Margot or scum!Val had any reason to keep me or the other alive.

My reads now are strong town reads on Margot and Val. I keep drifting into scum reading Face and Spangled, but despite the massive difference in post count they both occasionally post something really insightful and townie, and end up town leaning them. This leaves you and Thyn where I have the opposite problem, where I keep wanting to town read you but you'll post something that pings the hell out of me or you'll say something just feels off and misaligned with the rest of town.

Also I think it'd be weird to hide behind a kill from an argument off of one slot with one post saying it's TvT.

Not entirely true, Cook was calling them both town leans, and I don't remember anyone disagreeing with either of us.

Sure it might make more sense, but say Val was scum between the two. Do you honestly expect me to believe not only did Val survive n1 but the person giving him pushback dies and it wouldn't be highly suspicious to enough people? Same vice versa. Killing you and getting away with it, I can see. You'd been my nk if I was scum so either one of them could have gotten away with it for me.

Despite Cook having them as town leans you were the only one to explicitly say this was TvT and that's a bigger deal than giving them TL's.

[DArby]

I'm so far in the camp that it isn't enough to justify that read that I consider that response suspicious in itself, but I acknowledge that other people do look for different things, and have different thresholds, when making their reads. As such, I would feel happier if other players could at least give some indication as to where they fall on that scale.

It is important because I think that a scum!Spangled was TMIing Facebones as town there, rather than TRing his buddy, so I wouldn't support a Facebones wagon unless and until I saw a Spangled flip - I don't think I get any information from the other way around. If, one the other hand, I can be convinced that I might be wrong on this issue, and that TR was in the reasonable range of responses to that ISO, then the possibility of a town!Spangled changes that calculus.

I'm not quite sure I understand this. I'd be in favour of limming FB today, and considering Spangled for D3. Behaviour-wise, there is a much stronger argument to be made for scum!FB and with spangled's activeness, it will be easy to pick out any scumplays. You're saying you wouldn't get any information if FB flipped first, but why is that? If he flipped green that would exonerate spangled's "dodgy" read and we'll have rid ourselves of the high chance of scum!FB. If he flipped red we'll get rid of scum, I'm not sure what we have to lose here.

You are no longer on thin ice.

[DArby]

For now, anyway.

Actually sleeping on it, FB and Spangled make more sense than FB and Thynhith.

Thynhith was on thin ice as a placeholder of who could also make that mistake as scum!FB's partner. I think it's more likely that Spangled is putting his cards on the table and is, ironically, crumbing of his logic, than Thynhith is of playing dumb.

I was blinded by hearing multiple people say it that it didn't cross my mind how they were saying it.

[DArby]

Despite Cook having them as town leans you were the only one to explicitly say this was TvT

I've already pointed out that this isn't true.

I was blinded by hearing multiple people say it that it didn't cross my mind how they were saying it.

I am confused. What is the "it", here?

I’m so sorry I must have missed that. Can you point me to that post?

By it I mean nk’ing Galron for crumbing

[DArby]

557. I mistyped, which may have confused, but I corrected at 559.

I hate typing on my phone. Just lost another post ffs.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Even with Cooks endorsement that’s still not a town consensus. Especially if Roden is saying that he doesn’t suspect you because he labeled you TvT in 533 when it didn’t even happen. If a third party is already bringing up a possibility of a scenario that didn’t happen, I’m sure more would if it did. I’d imagine someone such as yourself or Margot would have seen that would be easily called out if the other died. What would be your defense even? “Lol wasn’t me Roden and Cook said so.”? I don’t think that 2 people saying your argument is TvT and neither of you dying proves that it was TvT. I do think you’re both town yea, but not for Roden’s reasoning.

[DArby]

By “it didn’t happen” I mean either of you dying.

[DArby]

No, I'm sorry, I'm still not following what you were trying to say in 569.

Thynhith was on thin ice as a placeholder of who could also make that mistake as scum!FB's partner.

'That mistake' being what? Are we still talking about the Galron kill here, and you consider it a mistake?

I was blinded by hearing multiple people say [Galron was NK'd for crumbing] that it didn't cross my mind how they were saying it.

Which people? Blinded in what sense?

Galron’s death was an objective mistake and scum gained nothing from it. Genuinely a bad play all around.

Roden first and then Spangled saying that Galrons death was the cause of him crumbing. When Spangled said it a second time I went “Shit I think they’re onto something” and didn’t stop to think why did both [Roden and Spangled] give that reasoning. Given Spangled play style I find this change of pase weird because it comes off more assured than his other posts. I’m on mobile right now so I’m spitballing here but 544 comes off way more assertive than I’m used to. It was so matter-of-fact it changed my opinion completely. I never paused to think that it was odd how he came out so strong d2 with that read that I do believe he came up with that independently of Roden.

[DArby]

The other issue I have, and this is something I need to get my head around before I can consider joining the Facebones voters, is the unresolved problems I have with Spangleds FB read.

Spangled did a good job by the end of yesterday of almost apologising his way out of his scumread with me (what shall we call that? The Canadian defense?). We have spent some time discussing what his reaction to that part of my read does or does not say about his alignment, but nobody, apart from the possible exception of Facebones himself at 255, has had anything to say on the actual issue I have with it.

I say that Spangled could not have reasonably given the read he does at 142, based on everything that FB had said until then, which was 103,109, and 111. Spangles response to that (and putting aside the way he put it for the moment), was that he says actually that he does consider it sufficient to make a strong read on, and I'm simply taking issue with the fact we have different reads.

I'm so far in the camp that it isn't enough to justify that read that I consider that response suspicious in itself, but I acknowledge that other people do look for different things, and have different thresholds, when making their reads. As such, I would feel happier if other players could at least give some indication as to where they fall on that scale.

It is important because I think that a scum!Spangled was TMIing Facebones as town there, rather than TRing his buddy, so I wouldn't support a Facebones wagon unless and until I saw a Spangled flip - I don't think I get any information from the other way around. If, one the other hand, I can be convinced that I might be wrong on this issue, and that TR was in the reasonable range of responses to that ISO, then the possibility of a town!Spangled changes that calculus.

If they’re scumbuddies the strong read makes sense. This is the only other strong play I can think of Spangled this game. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if they were both scum both of these plays [saying Galron died from crumbing and his FB read] make a lot more sense.

[DArby]

Does anyone have a town case for Darby or Thyn?

I'd also like to see your case against Thyn.

@Margot if FB flips red would you consider Spangled d3?

[DArby]

Hm. Noted.

[DArby]

I'd rather push someone else for now and then come back to FB at the EoD if needed.

I don't feel like speculating and voting for someone else who isn't here. That's both boring and gets us nowhere.

God forbid FB flips green too then we enter d3 with almost no margin of error.

I'd rather have the push for me or Thyn now so we can get

somewhere

more productive.

[DArby]

I'm confident in my Margot and Val townreads. If scum is here and I have any say town has lost.

I'm not touching reading Roden with a 10-foot pole right now. I want to trust him but that's been the downfall of many other townies before so not yet.

Thyn feels like a wallflower and a lot of her posts feel they're accomplishing something but a quick look at her ISO it seems a lot of her posts are direct quotes of others or asking others questions. The difference between here and Spangled is here it feels more aggressive.

I've spoke enough on Spangled as is.

I don't see how anyone can actively justify FB without a PR claim.

Ideally, I want to take out FB before anyone else but we're wasting our time waiting on him to come around with potential content. I'd rather we get content from active players now and then circle back before the day's end. More could have been accomplished d1 and I don't like making the same mistake twice.

[DArby]

I don't see how anyone can actively justify FB without a PR claim.

What does this mean? "Justify" as in still read Facebones town?

Yes sir

[DArby]

I am interested in hearing Roden's read tho.

[DArby]

This honestly feels like a good justification to policy lim FB. But I hate that it would be the second of two eliminations

I would agree with you if this was d1 but I'm more hesitant of doing a policy d2.

[DArby]

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with your read and I don't see your post as town-aligned at all.

This is my response color.

facebones what are your thoughts on spangled

Jury's still out on that one. I'm a little suspicious of 123 and 142, could it be an attempt at buddying?
I don't feel like my three posts should put me at the top of anyones townpile.

On the other hand I feel he was sincere about his initial apprehension and questioning of your plan, trying to get a firmer grasp on it to see if it would indeed be beneficial for town. When reading through, I noticed the questions he was asking were similar to questions I myself was thinking

Self-awareness usually comes from scum, but this thought process of "why are you town reading me" and explaining why town reading him off of so little doesn't sit right with him feels like a really townie mindset. Scum are more likely to just take the town read without a fight here.

What? Need I remind you that at this point Spangled was tied for most votes with Galron according to the vote count in 130. Of course he'd want to not associate with the person in the hot seat at that moment in time. And as much as it's been beaten over the head by now it's silly to accept that as a strong reads list at that time. Also I'm not sure it's related but you said "Self-awareness usually comes from scum" yet on page 7 where you got this quote Spangled did the exact same thing in 154. Do you think that's scum suspicious? If so why push for me or Thyn and not Spangled now? You were leaning on scum!Spangled 554 with FB. If you don't see it that way, why? I also find this read weird because in 604 you mention your reads didn't change but now you have a town case for someone you scum read?

After articulating my issues, I'm now a little bit more confident in seeing a red flip with respect to Spangled than I am Cook, although it is close, and I do think

it's possible that's just the scumpair

, gg.

Though Val, what makes you so confident you've already caught the scum pair?

What makes you think Val is "so confident" he's got the scum pair? I'm confused

This read as a town perspective slip to me. This is another questioning post where he doesn't understand another player's perspective but isn't shading when doing so. Scum doesn't care about these kinds of details.

I don't want to get too deep into this one because my argument would be WIFOM but I don't see this as a town slip or not shading. You've seen Val post. He's a confident mf. Just because he said "I suppose" doesn't take away the power of his words leading up to saying that.

Especially when he used the word confident in the post that's quoted.

This is not a good question FB posted. I read Val's post(s) in the same way you apparently read it. Val absolutely sounded confident. Adding "I'm confused" feels like a shade too. Like, this is such a weird read for you to have.

The change I was thinking of was https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12928671

VOTE: No elimination.

vs the one in this game

never no eliminate d1.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12936258

If we no-eliminate, that will likely put us at 2 scum 6 town and we can get a confirm townie tomorrow.

This one as well as scum trying to convince people no elim D1 is a good strategy

She's changed her tune a little bit
Granted she might've just pushed the no elim back to D2 instead of D1

Here he does his homework and points out the inconsistencies that Val was asking for others to point out. Again, this is something he really didn't have to do as scum.

I don't like that a lot of your read is boiling down to he's not being lazy when he posts, which is still up for debate. It's rather reductionist that you're boiling scum action to being incredibly basic and finding the least path of resistance.

In addition to this, while his post quantity is low overall, nothing jumps out to me as super scummy, and his Day 2 posts have been strong. He's generally coming off as solvey to me, just not in as many words as Val Margot or Spangled .

The last sentence is so weird, too? His day 2 posts absolutely give us nothing to work with. You said he's doing his homework but he doesn't even have a reads list? Val's 603 points that out. I suppose 587 and 599 is some solid work but FB is so far from being solvey I don't know how to expand on this further.

I mean this with absolutely no disrespect but I do disagree with your points.

[DArby]

@DArby I don't know what to make of the fact that our reads on Roden's post about FB are almost identical except for the last one, and yet it doesn't even make you reconsider.

Did you look at Facebones' 261 properly?

Well...yes it doesn't make me reconsider. I disagreed with all of his points.

As for 261 I don't read that as AI. So much of d1 was wasted over talking meta game brought up by a person who wanted to push it regardless of alignment. I am not going to insult myself further with bringing up that topic again.

[DArby]

That came out more snappy than I meant it to. Sorry. @Margot

And thank you. You are doing the lords work @Thyn

[DArby]

Honestly I thought I was saying something but Thyn said it a lot better. I'm confident with FB lem d2 but I'm willing to wait a bit for more content.

If FB flips red, Roden is d3 fodder.

[DArby]

@Darby you don't seem to have found Roden suspicious throughout D1, what's happened D2 to change your read - just post 631 or something more? How sure are you?

My read on Roden will also shift depending on Cook's flip

Can you also explain what you meant here, and how your read has shifted after Cook flipped green?

My post is a 100% kneejerk reaction to 631. It was such a weird read post that I cannot give Roden a tr if FB flips red. And I should clarify that me not finding him suspicious doesn't mean I town read him. It was a null read out of caution. In regards to 469. I know I had a reason but for the life of me I'm blanking on it and I'm about to do my night routine now. Come back to me on that tomorrow and I should be able to look back on it.

That came out more snappy than I meant it to. Sorry. @Margot

And thank you. You are doing the lords work @Thyn

That is fine. My point wasn't to relitigate the meta shit. My point is that it's a lot of research to conduct to come to the conclusion that Cook is probably Town (which she was).

This isn't about Cook. This is about the fact that this is a lot of work for Scum to perform to TR Town

I get that. That does seem like a lot of work, which it is. But I'd like to counter that with it is a lot of work reading a game in that he is not playing while actively ignoring this one. That negates any town cred because the work is not about this game. To me it just feels like extra busy work so he can say he did something without taking a risk of looking at this game.

[DArby]

I can’t tell if adding to the Margot/Val debate is a useful endeavor or not. Margot’s slot confuses me. A lot of her reactions come across in a weirdly emotional way and I’m not sure if that’s beef with Val or speaks on something greater. I still don’t understand how she could disagree w 2/3 of what Roden said and then back off the FB wagon?

Regardless this is giving me strong d1 deja vu. A lot of the town is out so I guess this is what we get but this isn’t incredibly productive. Can we instead focus on Thyn or me or Spangled or Roden or anyone who’s actually here more so this doesn’t feel so circular.

[DArby]

Just a coincidence you're scumreading the guys on your wagon, eh?

From memory 3 or 4 people have been on my wagon at varying times
What am I supposed to do, scumread the 2 who haven't been?

This is such a weird thing to say? You shouldn’t base reads lists based off whether or not someone is scum reading you to begin with.

[DArby]

In a wild twist of events the only 2 players I think are trustable are Thyn and Val.

[DArby]

Why, because they're the only 2 players who seem to be on my wagon right now?
Coincidence?
You shouldn't base your town reads based on people who are so damn adament about arguably the easiest mislim

I’m not my townread is because I don’t think they’d be silly enough to nk Galron. Margot is slipping tho.

[DArby]

And thank you. You are doing the lords work @Thyn

While we're on the topic of saying weird things, what about this?

He made a good argument against you that you never responded to.

Jesus fuck this game is dead.

[DArby]

I feel more confident town reading DArby. I feel more confident scum reading Val. Roden is slipping into scum territory quickly. FB is Null. Thyn is still likely scum. I don't remember who the seventh slot is lol

VOTE: Thyn

RIP Spangled

Also I dont think that’s going to stick. We have what? A day left? Would you compromise w FB or are you willing to go this route and risk a no-Lem?

[DArby]

In a wild twist of events the only 2 players I think are trustable are Thyn and Val.

This is wrong though. If you are TRing Val right now, you are trusting gut waaaaaaay too hard

Val would not kill Galron. That’s such a silly move for an experienced player to allow happen.

[DArby]

Spangled and Roden do seem to have dropped off a bit, and if they are scum it seems easy for them to blend into the background, because the headline story has ended up being "let's lynch Facebones because he threw up a bunch of red flags when questioned." which I feel is down to my lack of experience rather than being AI.

I've been trying to help, I've put forth my read lists and instead of taking any part of my posts on board, people seem to take every opportunity to poke holes in my arguments and devalue them, pointing the FoS squarely in my face. Wonder why I'm lurking?
Because everytime I do come out and say something, people twist and turn it into making me look scummy and immediately go on the attack. I feel way out of my depth here.

Anyway, I don't think people are going to get onboard with a DArby lim today so with that in mind

VOTE: Thyn

@Margot how do you read this as null?

[DArby]

Also FB said the no-no word

[DArby]

I will die in this game before I ever get a proper reasoning of scum reading Thyn it seems.

When I get home I’ll read your post more closely, but I’m vastly more interested in how you can look at FB’s slot and see that as null.

[DArby]

I fully stand behind the posts you scum read me for. My point did stand about what Spangled asked of me and Cook had to go off of policy and how anti town she was. I felt she might flip green because how fucking weird her play was but in the same situation I’d have done the same thing again.

[DArby]

As for 704... I kind of like it, which I kind of hate. Lmao.

It's just a hard pill for me to swallow I guess. Like, from my position I'm like "yeah we need to kill people who aren't cooperating" but then seeing someone else say it makes me go "no, you don't get to do that!! You are setting up bad things!" So, you wording it like "I felt like she might flip green BUUUUT die anyways" is just... yeah.

Unsure of how to litigate that.

What would you rather happen? With all due respect Cook really only provided game breaking meta and disappeared when pressured. It’s so weird?? I had my doubts but it was the best option I had.

What do you mean by setting up bad things?

[DArby]

Could you summarize now why you SR Facebones or quote what you think is the like, ~slamdunk~ of why he's scum?

631 is my disagreement against town reading FB + why I’m suspicious

634 and a loooot of what Val said is also why, but I have no use repeating that in my own posts.

[DArby]

It also does bother me tbh that the two people I find the scummiest are voting the person I find third scummiest.

Like... if they're scum together, they're just going after easy pickings here and letting Val and Margot sling shit at one another on the side.

Can you give me something deeper against Thyn?

[DArby]

As for 704... I kind of like it, which I kind of hate. Lmao.

It's just a hard pill for me to swallow I guess. Like, from my position I'm like "yeah we need to kill people who aren't cooperating" but then seeing someone else say it makes me go "no, you don't get to do that!! You are setting up bad things!" So, you wording it like "I felt like she might flip green BUUUUT die anyways" is just... yeah.

Unsure of how to litigate that.

What would you rather happen? With all due respect Cook really only provided game breaking meta and disappeared when pressured. It’s so weird?? I had my doubts but it was the best option I had.

What do you mean by setting up bad things?

There's not a lot more that can be asked, which is why I said I was unsure how to litigate it. In truth, it's something that I just kind of have to shrug at and accept it happened and wonder internally the motivation.

By setting up bad things I, /believe/ they said that they wanted to flip... Facebones and then consider Spangled, which if Facebones is town then tomorrow if Spangled is town game over. Setting up a chain elim like that is bleh.

This is the second time Margot miscounted a hammer she did.

As much as I'd like to think this is AI, I really think this might explain a few issues I've had with this slot

[DArby]

Ah well
What slots will be better sorted if I flip green? What about red?

Green Facbones will make me focus on these three:
- Thynhith
- Spangled
- Val89

Red Facebones downs scum, and will make me focus on these:
- DArby
- Vulture (SE) Roden

I will explain later if desired, I'm just about to go into a late night meeting x

Why are Thyn and I on different focuses when we've agreed for most of d2? Is it because of his near wagon?

[DArby]

I don't know what reads I'd go for d3 until I see who the nk is, if any at all.

This is such a strange game where I don't trust anyone sans potentially Val and maybe Thyn but that's in the air.

[DArby]

Im going to assume I can speak now?

I already said my piece in dead PT but congrats to everyone. I appreciate y’all playing with me as newb-y as I am and I’d be happy to play with any of you in other games

Also Val you had me deceased. Your commitment to the bit was a cherry on top and really made me not mad at losing.

[DArby]

I don’t think anyone saw that masonry. So good to both Spangled and Thyn.

Also if scum didn’t kill me I would have voted Val off of principle. I knew he was scum the second he used the word “though”. That was blantent scum behavior and I called it out the moment I saw it in dead pt.

[DArby]

Town would have probably still lost because my next pick would have been Margot so either way scum would have won.

[DArby]

Or wait, probably not if you went with Margot because she’d be conf town. Yeah no if I wasn’t killed town would have probably won.

Not because I’m good or anything but because Val pinged the fuck outta me the first post of d3.

[DArby]

Also also Val I’m sorry for saying your play was so stupid you possibly couldn’t have made it.

[DArby]

^