Open 805 Panic Room Day 1
Forum rules
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
In post 1196, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:What do you mean “cakes was negligent in highlighting the recency of the game”?Daenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
don't fucking shade me if you don't want your words to be scrutinized. you're wildly misreading everything and responding with completely irrelevant statements as if that's supposed to weaken my statements or make me look suspicious somehow.In post 1189, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:your reads are garbage.
1) does anyone ACTUALLY believe that I, as scum, would willingly pick a 1v1 against town!skitter? I've been pushing her slot since the beginning. that would mean you have two of the strongest town players in this game, who are also familiar with both my towngame and my scumgame, and I'm staring them in the face and drawing their attention like this. in what universe is that how I aim to play around skitter? that makes no fucking sense.
2) look at my ISO. I'm constantly engaging with people, evaluating my reads, picking things apart, and pushing. even though I'm no longer focusing on auro, it's clear I'm still trying to sort him. I'm trying to sort everyone. I'm clearly invested in this game and trying to solve. look at my posts and say to my face that this is a scummy ISO.
- DaenerysIn post 1190, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:not only that, but in order to scumread me you have to believe that after skitter and auro backed off me, that I am willingly, repeatedly, poking and prodding and antagonizing them instead of just letting them townread me. how on earth do you think this is a strategy that scum!me takes with respect to a town!dumb and dumber. how????
either you're blind or you're scum.
- Daenerys
now if you actually READ my ISO and THINK about the position I've taken on dumb & dumber, you should realize that it makes zero sense for me to put myself in a position where I am constantly antagonizing them if I'm scum and they're town. and you should also see that I'm clearly putting in effort and care about solving this damn game.In post 1193, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:
they specifically said theyIn post 1186, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I'm pretty sure dumbo's been clear about thinking murdercat is the bomb? I could be miscrediting a post to them thoIn post 1160, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:
this doesn't really sound like you think he's scum with murder imo.In post 1146, Dumb and Dumber wrote:The Gamma distraction feels pretty boring to me, and I can totally imagine Gamma as stubborn/frustrated town justifying his actions. The emotional reaction does seem a little disproportionate, marking that for later study.
MURDERKITTY is still the correct lim.
-Dumbass
- Daenerysdon'tthink murder is the bombthis is also just completely irrelevant to my point, which was that 1146 makes it sound like auro thinks you're town, which doesn't jive with his later post saying he thinks you have partner equity with murder. once again, you've made it about murder's alignment when my point has nothing to do with murder's alignment. how would auro thinking murder is the bomb change my point?
- Daenerys
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
Yeah he felt more aggressive and solvey in Among Us compared to here.In post 1019, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Here’s the thing: you ALSO saw what happened in Among Us. Tell me Murder’s play/reception differs from that game at all.In post 1012, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:Very conflicted. I think his posting isolated is very scummy but I also can buy his excuse that he was burned out by the BooneyToonz game and I did like his post where he cased Penguin. Would yeet in lack of other better wagons.
You can't pull one rando-ass wagon out of another game with different players and compare it to this specific situation and act like you're cleared now.In post 1026, Gamma Emerald wrote:MURDERCAT [6, E-3] outworldER, Akarin, xRECKONERx, alisae, sircakez, battle mage (thegoldenparadox)
The only scum on this in that game, SirCakez, voted around the middle of what was need to lim
NM is in the same place if murdercat is a miselim this game
So like, how is my NM vote bad given that?
Thanks Penguin for repeating my thoughtsIn post 1027, PenguinPower wrote:- presupposes murderkitty town
- correlates to an unrelated game with
- a different playerlist
- a different design
- a different size
- different wagons and voting structure
- a different playerlist
- nm isn't sircakez
-DragonsDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
he was scum in that booneytoonz though??In post 1036, Gamma Emerald wrote:I don’t think murdercat’s play is substantially different from that game/any of his other town games, and the fact he’s getting early pressure to this degree tells me he’s town
In booneytoonz XV I recall there was a D1 wagon on him but it was rather short-lived
Meanwhile like, every other town game I’ve seen from him he’s been rather suspected. So imo the trend is “if murdercat gets sussed a lot early he is town”
who even cares about MC meta? he is underwhelming as hell here reading him on that he is more likely scum
-DragonsDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
np, hope you are able to rest and feel better soon.In post 1209, Dumb and Dumber wrote:Heya, i'm still not doing super awesome. Lilith i'll try to get to ur posts but i dont want to promise itll happen today
Auro's response to u on my behalf was fairly accurate tho
(This is more of a checkin to say i'm not ignoring this, but rather that i dont have tons of energy rn)
~ skitter
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
In post 1202, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:don't fucking shade me if you don't want your words to be scrutinized. you're wildly misreading everything and responding with completely irrelevant statements as if that's supposed to weaken my statements or make me look suspicious somehow.In post 1189, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:your reads are garbage.
1) does anyone ACTUALLY believe that I, as scum, would willingly pick a 1v1 against town!skitter? I've been pushing her slot since the beginning. that would mean you have two of the strongest town players in this game, who are also familiar with both my towngame and my scumgame, and I'm staring them in the face and drawing their attention like this. in what universe is that how I aim to play around skitter? that makes no fucking sense.
2) look at my ISO. I'm constantly engaging with people, evaluating my reads, picking things apart, and pushing. even though I'm no longer focusing on auro, it's clear I'm still trying to sort him. I'm trying to sort everyone. I'm clearly invested in this game and trying to solve. look at my posts and say to my face that this is a scummy ISO.
- DaenerysIn post 1190, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:not only that, but in order to scumread me you have to believe that after skitter and auro backed off me, that I am willingly, repeatedly, poking and prodding and antagonizing them instead of just letting them townread me. how on earth do you think this is a strategy that scum!me takes with respect to a town!dumb and dumber. how????
either you're blind or you're scum.
- Daenerys
now if you actually READ my ISO and THINK about the position I've taken on dumb & dumber, you should realize that it makes zero sense for me to put myself in a position where I am constantly antagonizing them if I'm scum and they're town. and you should also see that I'm clearly putting in effort and care about solving this damn game.In post 1193, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:
they specifically said theyIn post 1186, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I'm pretty sure dumbo's been clear about thinking murdercat is the bomb? I could be miscrediting a post to them thoIn post 1160, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:
this doesn't really sound like you think he's scum with murder imo.In post 1146, Dumb and Dumber wrote:The Gamma distraction feels pretty boring to me, and I can totally imagine Gamma as stubborn/frustrated town justifying his actions. The emotional reaction does seem a little disproportionate, marking that for later study.
MURDERKITTY is still the correct lim.
-Dumbass
- Daenerysdon'tthink murder is the bombthis is also just completely irrelevant to my point, which was that 1146 makes it sound like auro thinks you're town, which doesn't jive with his later post saying he thinks you have partner equity with murder. once again, you've made it about murder's alignment when my point has nothing to do with murder's alignment. how would auro thinking murder is the bomb change my point?
- Daenerys
- DaenerysIn post 1206, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:wtf? in hidden temple I was a fucking wet napkin. my attitude is just me. my engagement, my proactivity, my solving, my sorting, is all town and wasn't evident in hidden temple whatsoever.
??????????
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
once again, if you think that my play here and in hidden temple is at all the same, I like....... don't fucking know what will make it through to your head because we are in totally different universes here. there wasnothingtowny or proactive or engaged about my play in hidden temple. I'd also like responses to what I said because it really seems like you have either not stopped to think about anything I've done this game and how it could possibly be scum-indicative....... or you're just scum.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
I can try to be more present here but I need something to grab me and rn nothing is.
I'm not getting good reads on anyone and like I said I dislike logging into the hydra account.In post 1147, Dumb and Dumber wrote:Cakez, you seem pretty uninvested this game. I'd be glad if you can change that.
-Dumbass
And there's a lot of arguing that is making me glaze over.
Lilith is transparently town anyways.
When have we ever worked well together? iirc you always diss on me then try to miselim me.In post 1152, Dumb and Dumber wrote:I think I'd work well with Cakez. His lack of investment is a mild concern and I'd rather no concerns at all, but the stronger point is that I think an invested Cakez would be better for the game, independent of your own play.
-Dumbass
I'm letting Lilith take charge on reading you anyways. I don't have good faith about reading either of you and Lilith is just better.
Gonna need more here boss.In post 1168, Salsabil Faria wrote:I'm continuously getting this feeling thatDaenerys and DragonsvsDumb and Dumberis not TvT
I was in Hidden Temple and this is outrageously false.In post 1205, Gamma Emerald wrote:I don't see a tangible difference between your attitude this game and the one you had in hidden temple
so that's part of why I'm not exactly receptive to what you're saying rn
-DragonsDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
your shading me does not make sense if you've actually thought about where I am in this game. if you stopped and thought about this for a second, you should see that I have no reason to be constantly pushing town!dumb & dumber if I'm scum.In post 1202, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:now if you actually READ my ISO and THINK about the position I've taken on dumb & dumber, you should realize that it makes zero sense for me to put myself in a position where I am constantly antagonizing them if I'm scum and they're town. and you should also see that I'm clearly putting in effort and care about solving this damn game.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
once again - look at my ISO. look at me pushing, sorting, engaging, and progressing this game. yeah, I think I'm the most obvtown slot in this game.
don't talk to me about vitriol when you called me a dense fucker for trying to engage with you about murder.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
like I'm not even mean until after you said "fuck off." before that I was just questioning your reads because they actually make no sense. if you want to say my attitude stinks, fine. "raw vitriol" is just hypocritical and not even true.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
1064 is a DIRECT RESPONSE to my post, how am I not supposed to take it personally?
1066 is an addendum to 1064, which was, again, a DIRECT RESPONSE to me.
explain to me how I'm supposed to read your mind that these weren't directed to me even though the post was a direct response to mine.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
I don't believe your read on me has been made in good faith, or considers the entirety of my play in this game, so yeah, I have a problem with it. I have a problem with all reads that I don't think are formed in good faith, I just happen to be more personally invested in the reads on me.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
okay - if it wasn't clear, I meant the specific series of posts I made on page 48. I wanted you to actually think about what it meant for the game if I was scum and put myself in a position where I was deliberately antagonizing a town!skitter and town!auro repeatedly, with no visible benefit to myself, because that doesn't make sense to me as a strategy that any scum would make. going up against town!dumb & dumber would be fuckingIn post 1227, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Maybe my words were off, but that's another of my personal challenges is finding the words to convey my thoughts appropriately.In post 1223, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:like I'm not even mean until after you said "fuck off." before that I was just questioning your reads because they actually make no sense. if you want to say my attitude stinks, fine. "raw vitriol" is just hypocritical and not even true.
- Daenerys
As for my telling you to fuck off, what you were telling me to do felt like a waste of my time. I'm not interested in backreading for that stuff rn. The most I'm intending to backread for atp is to find who would make sense as scum rn in a general sense. Maybe I'll end up concluding you're town when I do that but I'm not going towantto townread you if it feels like I'm only doing it because you got upset. So let me read in MY way on MY time.terrifyingand I am hard-pressed to imagine anyone as scum being willing to throw themselves into a 1v1 with them like that.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
and you completely ignoring that feels like you really didn't think about whether I made sense as scum in a general sense and therefore it feels like you're just picking and choosing what you think about in order to make my slot into a potential wagon.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
sry. probably going to take another break from the thread.In post 1229, Infinity 324 wrote:Honestly lilith has felt pretty obvtown to me too but this is exhausting to read throughDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
1230/1231 sums up my points most succinctly.In post 1243, Green Crayons wrote:tbh I skimmed this Lilith/Gamma back and forth with one eye and nothing really grabbed me
If one of y’all think there’s a particularly AI post somewhere in all this back and forth, feel free to link it (and if you’ve already made this point I’d appreciate you just linking *that* post)
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
I was quoting mena when I said that. I said to never townread her D1. I'm kind of at the point where I think my read is strong enough that I might want to elim her D1, but since it seems like no one else is really considering them I don't really see the point.In post 1246, MURDERCAT wrote:
Didn't you say to never flip skitter D1? Or was that someone else?In post 1204, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:more votes on gamma please. or on dumb & dumber although I doubt I'd be able to push through a wagon on them today.
- Daenerys
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
? no I think I did say it, but I was quoting mena when I said itIn post 1254, MURDERCAT wrote:
Oh right, ok I think someone else said that then. Or I'm making it upIn post 1249, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:I was quoting mena when I said that. I said to never townread her D1. I'm kind of at the point where I think my read is strong enough that I might want to elim her D1, but since it seems like no one else is really considering them I don't really see the point.
which post was this in response to/who is "you"?In post 1253, Green Crayons wrote:^^^ Auro’s posting with you has been weird (I didn’t think his posting when y’all first got at it was weird, and actually thought you were being weird, but ever since then his posting wrt is off) but that’s also something I don’t have the energy to suss out as AI or just personality plus I really like the other half of the hydra
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
In post 694, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:however, as mena once said, skitter is a bad D1 elim. I’m not really interested in pursuing their elimination today, but I’m very much not convinced that they’re town. when I get back I’ll try to be more involved in sorting other slots for today’s elim.Daenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
I mean I swing wildly between "this has to be scum!dumb & dumber" and "oh god what if I lead a miselim on town!skitter and then town is just royally FORKED" pretty much on the hour
more votes = good pressure though
and sometimes I have faith enough in my read to think, fuck it I should just case them already
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
I strongly dislike gamma, but hard to tell if that’s being skewed by me disliking his misunderstanding pretty much everything I say. I feel like that interaction was me trying to repeatedly explain why I don’t make sense as scum and he accused me of taking his statements personally and acted like that invalidated everything I said, but... I was just calling him out on a read that made zero sense. Like.. are we not here to argue about things? If I try to disprove a read that I think isn’t made in good faith or make someone rethink their logic then I’m somehow taking it personally? I literally don’t/didn’t feel personally affronted, I’m just playing the game, and now I feel like I’m supposed to feel shame for doing so. I get riled up, sure, but I don’t think I was “spewing raw vitriol”?? I was clearly getting frustrated that he literally didn’t read the content of my posts and went straight to attacking me.
- when I talked about auro’s read on gamma not really seeming congruous in different posts, gamma brought up whether auro thought murder was the bomb (?? not relevant)
- when I talked about infinity and gamma not caring about finding scum and settling for an easy NM wagon, gamma brought up murder not being scum (?? not relevant)
- whenever I do pretty much anything, gamma calls it emotional and acts like my content doesn’t exist
- when I called him out on his logic for scum!me, gamma ignored the actual words I said and attacked me for it on a personal level, when it wasn’t a personal argument
- when I continued to call him out on it, he called my posts “raw vitriol” - I really don’t think they were, I’m trying to either disprove his read or make him rethink it, I don’t think I said anything mean or personal towards him
- and he acted like me having anything other than a 100% calm response was grounds to basically ignore everything I was saying
- he ignored all of my content in favor of waxing on about how it was basically my fault he wasn’t listening to me, when he could have just read my damn post
- he did that when I was trying to engage him about murder too, so I feel like there’s a pattern here of avoiding interactions by making it personal and responding to things with completely irrelevant things
- he compared this game to Hidden Temple which is seriously probably my worst scumgame of all time. This is so so so far from reality that I cannot believe someone thinks that my play is similar to that game
- he compared this game to Cards of Destiny which, again, is probably one of my worse scumgames.
- if you think my play in this game is anything like these two games, you are in another universe. or just scum.
- if you look at my play in this game outside of dumb & dumber and think I’d be playing like this as scum, you must either have a really incredible impression of my scumgame (doesn’t make much sense if the two scumgames you’ve seen are the two just mentioned above, which are in like my bottom 3 games). or just scum.
- and if you seriously posit scum!me intentionally going up against town!skitter, you are either really not thinking this through. or just scum.
- by occam’s razor: just scum.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
like seriously I have to repeat myself four times while gamma is accusing me of overreacting and I’m just trying to show that his reasoning doesn’t make sense/is scummy.In post 1189, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:your reads are garbage.
1) does anyone ACTUALLY believe that I, as scum, would willingly pick a 1v1 against town!skitter? I've been pushing her slot since the beginning. that would mean you have two of the strongest town players in this game, who are also familiar with both my towngame and my scumgame, and I'm staring them in the face and drawing their attention like this. in what universe is that how I aim to play around skitter? that makes no fucking sense.
2) look at my ISO. I'm constantly engaging with people, evaluating my reads, picking things apart, and pushing. even though I'm no longer focusing on auro, it's clear I'm still trying to sort him. I'm trying to sort everyone. I'm clearly invested in this game and trying to solve. look at my posts and say to my face that this is a scummy ISO.
- DaenerysIn post 1190, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:not only that, but in order to scumread me you have to believe that after skitter and auro backed off me, that I am willingly, repeatedly, poking and prodding and antagonizing them instead of just letting them townread me. how on earth do you think this is a strategy that scum!me takes with respect to a town!dumb and dumber. how????
either you're blind or you're scum.
- DaenerysIn post 1202, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:now if you actually READ my ISO and THINK about the position I've taken on dumb & dumber, you should realize that it makes zero sense for me to put myself in a position where I am constantly antagonizing them if I'm scum and they're town. and you should also see that I'm clearly putting in effort and care about solving this damn game.
- DaenerysIn post 1214, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:once again, if you think that my play here and in hidden temple is at all the same, I like....... don't fucking know what will make it through to your head because we are in totally different universes here. there wasnothingtowny or proactive or engaged about my play in hidden temple. I'd also like responses to what I said because it really seems like you have either not stopped to think about anything I've done this game and how it could possibly be scum-indicative....... or you're just scum.
- DaenerysIn post 1221, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:
your shading me does not make sense if you've actually thought about where I am in this game. if you stopped and thought about this for a second, you should see that I have no reason to be constantly pushing town!dumb & dumber if I'm scum.In post 1202, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:now if you actually READ my ISO and THINK about the position I've taken on dumb & dumber, you should realize that it makes zero sense for me to put myself in a position where I am constantly antagonizing them if I'm scum and they're town. and you should also see that I'm clearly putting in effort and care about solving this damn game.
- DaenerysIn post 1226, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:I don't believe your read on me has been made in good faith, or considers the entirety of my play in this game, so yeah, I have a problem with it. I have a problem with all reads that I don't think are formed in good faith, I just happen to be more personally invested in the reads on me.
- DaenerysIn post 1230, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:
okay - if it wasn't clear, I meant the specific series of posts I made on page 48. I wanted you to actually think about what it meant for the game if I was scum and put myself in a position where I was deliberately antagonizing a town!skitter and town!auro repeatedly, with no visible benefit to myself, because that doesn't make sense to me as a strategy that any scum would make. going up against town!dumb & dumber would be fuckingIn post 1227, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Maybe my words were off, but that's another of my personal challenges is finding the words to convey my thoughts appropriately.In post 1223, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:like I'm not even mean until after you said "fuck off." before that I was just questioning your reads because they actually make no sense. if you want to say my attitude stinks, fine. "raw vitriol" is just hypocritical and not even true.
- Daenerys
As for my telling you to fuck off, what you were telling me to do felt like a waste of my time. I'm not interested in backreading for that stuff rn. The most I'm intending to backread for atp is to find who would make sense as scum rn in a general sense. Maybe I'll end up concluding you're town when I do that but I'm not going towantto townread you if it feels like I'm only doing it because you got upset. So let me read in MY way on MY time.terrifyingand I am hard-pressed to imagine anyone as scum being willing to throw themselves into a 1v1 with them like that.
- DaenerysIn post 1231, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:and you completely ignoring that feels like you really didn't think about whether I made sense as scum in a general sense and therefore it feels like you're just picking and choosing what you think about in order to make my slot into a potential wagon.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
I feel like it’s understandable to be frustrated when someone doesn’t seem to be interacting with you in good faith, and then gamma accuses me of overreacting and attacks me for it, which I feel is even less in good faith. gamma’s entire interactions with/mentions of me are pretty much just dismissals of any content I have and refusals to interact with me because I’m “too emotional” while simultaneously attacking me in an emotional way. Again, beyond frustration, I don’t think I was overly emotional, I don’t think I overreacted, I disagreed with reads and called them out for being either bad or coming from scum, and then repeatedly explained the reason I said that. Meanwhile, gamma was busy telling me that my posts aren’t valid if I show any signs of frustration so really it’s my fault he’s not interacting with me in good faith. I don’t think this is town.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
In a vacuum I can see what you’re saying, I think it doesn’t make sense to keep this going in the context of this game though. skitter was townreading me at the beginning of the game -> scum!me deliberately antagonizes her? doesn’t make much sense. skitter was townreading me again after me vs auro -> scum!me continues to antagonize skitter and invite her scrutiny on me? I don’t think that makes much sense either. This would be a really risky play for me to make without much benefit, because there are many other ways for me to try to seem towny than antagonizing a player who knows how to read me really well.In post 1281, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1189, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:your reads are garbage.
1) does anyone ACTUALLY believe that I, as scum, would willingly pick a 1v1 against town!skitter? I've been pushing her slot since the beginning. that would mean you have two of the strongest town players in this game, who are also familiar with both my towngame and my scumgame, and I'm staring them in the face and drawing their attention like this. in what universe is that how I aim to play around skitter? that makes no fucking sense.
2) look at my ISO. I'm constantly engaging with people, evaluating my reads, picking things apart, and pushing. even though I'm no longer focusing on auro, it's clear I'm still trying to sort him. I'm trying to sort everyone. I'm clearly invested in this game and trying to solve. look at my posts and say to my face that this is a scummy ISO.
- DaenerysIn post 1190, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:not only that, but in order to scumread me you have to believe that after skitter and auro backed off me, that I am willingly, repeatedly, poking and prodding and antagonizing them instead of just letting them townread me. how on earth do you think this is a strategy that scum!me takes with respect to a town!dumb and dumber. how????
either you're blind or you're scum.
- DaenerysI know these replies is not for me, but I want to know something. Scum!you are willingly picking 1v1 against town!Skitter is also not impossible despite you both know each other playstyles both town+scum? It can be a good strategy to use so that scum!you can be townreaded by all/most of the players at least? And town!Skitter has to prove to the rest of us that you're a scum here. You may be (?) can't play around town!Skitter, but you may (?) can play around enough people to save yourselves from the elimination? And everyone tries to improve their game, so that doesn't mean scum!you don't improve your game here especially knowing that town!Skitter is here. This isn't my read on you/Skitter, I'm clearing that maybe (?) all of it isn't that impossible.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
I really don’t feel like I’m being defensive....... I just think it’s crazy to consider my play as something scum would be doing against town!skitter. And I feel like gamma is repeatedly ignoring my content in favor of dismissing me for being too emotional.In post 1287, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1217, Gamma Emerald wrote: I'm not even directly pushing you yet, I'm just trying to talk on my thoughts, so your explosive reaction seems overly defensiveAgreed. Town can be defensive too, I myself a defensive person, but Lilith's defensiveness is not something I see town usually do.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
........ okay? “scum were able to fake it once” doesn’t mean something isn’t towny... they were just able to replicate it as scum. Progressing the game and solving and trying to sort people is a pro-town thing to do. Townies want to do it. Scum don’t want the game to progress. Therefore it is towny.In post 1290, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1222, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:once again - look at my ISO. look at me pushing, sorting, engaging, and progressing this game. yeah, I think I'm the most obvtown slot in this game.
- DaenerysDon't get mad but I saw this exact same attitude ofobsessive town solverscum game in one of my previous games and most of the players fell for it and the mafia won.
Is there an argument that scum can look like they’re trying to progress the game but not actually doing so? yes. But then the onus would be on you (or gamma, or whoever is trying to say this doesn’t make someone towny) to prove why that person is not actually helping advance the game. The onus isn’t on me to prove that something I did that’s inherently towny isn’t actually scummy.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
@salsabil I can’t tell if debating whether me getting into a 1v1 with skitter could be scum-motivated is an actual argument you want to pursue or just something you were commenting on. If it’s actually something you want to discuss, I can talk more about it.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
1310 was supposed to be a watered down version for you that you could understand without meta - regardless of my history with skitter, it’s a really risky move for me to deliberately antagonize someone who is townreading me in order to try to get other people to townread me, when I could just get the other people to townread me some other way. High risk, low reward.In post 1317, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1315, Dumb and Dumber wrote:Hey, Salsabil is missing some context.
@Salsabil, Skitter30 (the other head of this hydra, Dumber) is a highly reputed player and scary slot to roll scum against.
She also has had a high read rate (100% I think) on Lilith's alignment games they've played together previously.
What Lilith is arguing is that for scum!Lilith, taking such continuous aggressive stances as scum against a slot that has proved to read her well is a silly, suicidal move.
Leave that aside - even if she did that anyway as a crazy method to get townread, and now that both heads of my slot declare townreads on her... pushing on us in this position is *even sillier* for scum!Lilith to make. I presume she'd rather just stay mum and focus elsewhere, kill us off N1, and coast off our read on her if she was scum.
-DumbassI understand completely. My point (or problem) is, I didn't play with any of you before, so literally have no idea how are you guys playing as a town/scum. So it's really tough for me to believe all of your meta on each other as I don't who is who here. I'm trying to build up my read on what I'm seeing in this game and only in this game. Do I make sense?
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
again, I can’t tell if this is actually something you want to discuss at length because you think it’s AI or you just commented on the theory part. I’m happy to go more in depth if the former, otherwise I think we can probably drop this until you feel like you’ve read enough to start forming a read.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
surface level towny, but I’m wary of him seeming towny to me in a prior game where he was scum, so probably closer to null overall. probably not interested in elim unless our other reads are wrong/we end up needing to reevaluate gamestate.
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
I'm more interested in Auto's thoughts hereIn post 1237, Dumb and Dumber wrote:Fwiw i'm at the point where i agree with that
(Lilith i'll walk u through how and why my read changed when i have more energy)
~ skitter
Since when?In post 1273, Dumb and Dumber wrote:V/LA for a day, work shiz needs heavy attention
I super quickly surfed through previous pages, D&D is obvtown, and hot take: Gamma feels gut-town too, and I still want to flip MC. It's a gut take, so I won't be defending Gamma.
Salsabil, if you'd like me to explain any post from my slot I'll be glad to (I can see how they'd be hard to read).
Dragons, I think it's been the other way round, no? You get paranoid of Mastermind!Dumbass every game and try to get me killed - when I say I think I'd work well, it's what I hope for the next time
Crayons, if my posting was off, why not explore that? It's odd that you remain so passive about it.
-Dumbass
-DragonsDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
Your read on us (not skitter's)In post 1330, Dumb and Dumber wrote:Which thoughts in specific?
Weren't you angling for my lim for the most part in Doubles Mafia?
-Dumbass
Yeah but so were you on me
-DragonsDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
this happened before you said you weren’t townreading me. Can you explain your progression here?In post 1337, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
right, this + the conviction you have on this point is what ultimately changed my mindIn post 1190, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:not only that, but in order to scumread me you have to believe that after skitter and auro backed off me, that I am willingly, repeatedly, poking and prodding and antagonizing them instead of just letting them townread me. how on earth do you think this is a strategy that scum!me takes with respect to a town!dumb and dumber. how????
either you're blind or you're scum.
- Daenerys
~ skitter
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
in response to 1335:
- I don’t feel like your read on me should have needed to be dependent on how I approach you, given I’m under the impression that this isn’t how you’ve read me in the past. What’s different about this game that makes this the primary factor?
- I am pretty sure you said at least twice before this that you were townreading me - once at the very beginning of the game, and once after the initial me vs. auro. at what point were you no longer townreading me?
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
when you said you were explicitly not townreading me, it was already after you had stated a prior townread and I had antagonized you while you were townreading me. were you not considering that when you said you weren’t townreading me? that was already information that you had at that time. when did this change your read?
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
here is the second time you said you townread me, which is what I'm referring to (and this is after me vs. auro):In post 647, Dumb and Dumber wrote:Lilith <3
I hope ur ok
(On a game note i probably disagree with auro and am leaning town on you)
~ skitterDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
if you don't think you said you townread me, then how can you agree with me that I was antagonizing you after you said you townread me?In post 1337, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
right, this + the conviction you have on this point is what ultimately changed my mindIn post 1190, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:not only that, but in order to scumread me you have to believe that after skitter and auro backed off me, that I am willingly, repeatedly, poking and prodding and antagonizing them instead of just letting them townread me. how on earth do you think this is a strategy that scum!me takes with respect to a town!dumb and dumber. how????
either you're blind or you're scum.
- Daenerys
~ skitter
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
to take a step back:
1) you're now saying that you don't think you expressed a townread on me. if you believe this is true, then how do you find my point valid if my point is dependent on a gamestate where I'm pushing you while you're townreading me?
2) if you do agree with my point, then the part where I was pushing your slot while you were townreading me would have already happened by the time you posted this:
so it seems like you didn't take that into consideration when you said you didn't townread me then, but now you are considering it. what changed?In post 1131, Dumb and Dumber wrote:i would like to say i explicilty do not townread the other hydra and i feel like lilith ignored my overture trying to sort her slot
i really, really dislike gamma's approach to the MURDERCAT wagon, and am somewhat inclined to switch my vote there, but i won't cuz auro does not quite agree. although actually the more i read i'm not sure that he's scum; he feels kinda like misunderstood and pissed off town. also i hope you have a better day tom <3
i still feel like MURDERCAT is being grossly lurkish and underwhelming
~ skitter
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
again, I was already antagonizing you plenty before you said you didn't townread me, so what changed between then and now?In post 1354, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
it was more of a generic 'i don't think you would be antagnozing us in general' vs 'i don't think you would be antaganozing us specifically after i townread you'In post 1352, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:
if you don't think you said you townread me, then how can you agree with me that I was antagonizing you after you said you townread me?In post 1337, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
right, this + the conviction you have on this point is what ultimately changed my mindIn post 1190, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:not only that, but in order to scumread me you have to believe that after skitter and auro backed off me, that I am willingly, repeatedly, poking and prodding and antagonizing them instead of just letting them townread me. how on earth do you think this is a strategy that scum!me takes with respect to a town!dumb and dumber. how????
either you're blind or you're scum.
- Daenerys
~ skitter
- Daenerys
( i skimmed a lot in the past couple of days and kinda like got the gist but didn't necessasrily catch every word)
~ skitter
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
? it's stated in the original post you responded toIn post 1354, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
it was more of a generic 'i don't think you would be antagnozing us in general' vs 'i don't think you would be antaganozing us specifically after i townread you'In post 1352, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:
if you don't think you said you townread me, then how can you agree with me that I was antagonizing you after you said you townread me?In post 1337, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
right, this + the conviction you have on this point is what ultimately changed my mindIn post 1190, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:not only that, but in order to scumread me you have to believe that after skitter and auro backed off me, that I am willingly, repeatedly, poking and prodding and antagonizing them instead of just letting them townread me. how on earth do you think this is a strategy that scum!me takes with respect to a town!dumb and dumber. how????
either you're blind or you're scum.
- Daenerys
~ skitter
- Daenerys
( i skimmed a lot in the past couple of days and kinda like got the gist but didn't necessasrily catch every word)
~ skitter
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
uh... yes, this is all true. is there a reason my explanations for why these things happened weren't satisfactory?In post 1360, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
it felt like you were trying to draw out the auro thing a bit when he was trying to disengage, adn that you were calling him scummy for trying to disengage, and that you didn't want to engage with my headIn post 1356, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:again, I was already antagonizing you plenty before you said you didn't townread me, so what changed between then and now?
so it's not about whether I'm pushing you after all?then the emotion in the gamma stuff outweighed that
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
really shouldn't use the same forum skin on both accountsIn post 1366, lilith2013 wrote:
can you explain this post?In post 1134, Dumb and Dumber wrote:
i can't, no (i.e. i don't ahve an example)In post 1132, Infinity 324 wrote:Can you link me a game where scum!lilith showed this level of proactiveness or emotion
but she's not quite feeling like town-lilith to me yet either and i'm currently trying to figure out what i make of that
~ skitter
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
- Daenerys and Dragons
-
Daenerys and Dragons Goon
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 952
- Joined: May 19, 2016
and I'd also like to bring up that you've been able to read me perfectly fine in the past with minimal engagement, and here I spent several days interacting with other people where you should have been able to observe my play. why does the possibility that this is how scum!me approaches your slot outweigh the rest of my play in this game?
- DaenerysDaenerys (lilith2013) and Dragons (SirCakez)!
Account made before GoT was bad don't hate - Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons
- Daenerys and Dragons