Mini Normal 2196 - Game Over

[clidd]

Example of bad meta read:

Spoiler:

Hum, Gamma, I would like your opinion about this game:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

You were replaced at the end of D3, but your posting frequency (85) is very similar to the number of posts here (92). The progression is basically the same: slow, with few reads and apathetic involvement with the game. Your successor was lynched on the D4, revealed as

Mafia Tracker

. The scum behavior you showed in that game is perfectly aligned with what you have shown so far here, should I consider it a coincidence ?

(Gamma was town).

[clidd]

@clidd - Ever done it as scum to help push a case on town/partner?

Not that I remember, but I've probably done something similar with meta to advance a scum agenda. My scum roll is rare.

But nothing close to the deep meta dives as town.

[clidd]

Here, scum!me using meta:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11887436

[clidd]

Alright, I'll take another break.

There is some stuff that I want to take a look at.

[clidd]

Ok, I have many trs/tls. That's a problem.

[clidd]

The picture I have in mind:

{VFP} {Llama} {DGB}
{Lotus} {Gretchen}

-

{Gera}
{Solon}
{Dannflor}

-

{Alice}

{Amélie}

Divided in intensity, being the top town and the bottom scum.

pedit: TR is townread, which means that I'm more sure on the person being town. TL is townlean, which means a weak townread/less sure.

[clidd]

I have no idea what chainsawing is lol.

[clidd]

Btw, I think that there is one scum among my townleans (Gera/Solon/Dann). Not sure who.

[clidd]

I’ve seen this scenario happen quite often, but I didn’t know there was a term for it. I will start to adopt it in my vocabulary, thank you.

[clidd]

I don't know if "TRs" and "TLs" are correct to use, but that's how I learned it when I joined the forum.

[clidd]

Interesting. I don't know what the queues were like in your day, but I hope you keep playing. It will be a good exchange of experiences.

Well, there are more things I wanted to ask you, but I'll leave it to the post game, so we don't lose focus here.

[clidd]

You reading VFP as town based on what he did or predecessors did? Also what did you gleam if anything over me asking DGB about their N1 result?

I found its reaction "ok" to your questioning. I didn't know the outcome of his result would matter.

Regarding my read on Vfp, give me a few minutes and I’ll summarize what’s going on in my head.

[clidd]

You ever heard of DGBs claimed role before? Again checking against if there is a recentcy bias in how setups are made.

Yes, but I never played with before.

It shouldn't be that unusual imo, although I have no experience with the role.

[clidd]

Specifically speaking of the psychologist, of course.

I don't know if the modification is common or not.

[clidd]

Ok, so from where I stand, VFP and you (Llama) are two slots that reflect me as town due to the way you both have expressed your opinions about the game. I feel a real desire to investigate what is going on and collect information, which basically suggests that you two are starting from an uninformed perspective, that is, town. Dgb is among the set because I concluded, at least atm, that the sum of all its actions after the claim does not seem like a scum withdrawal/frustration but rather a town withdrawal/frustration. Although it's not weighing its opinions about the game in a detailed way, I'm convinced that its play doesn’t make much sense for scum!DGB to make, unless something drastically changes my perception of the slot.

In other words, I'm townreading Vfp based on his play only, without the influence of the predecessor.

[clidd]

You ever heard of DGBs claimed role before? Again checking against if there is a recentcy bias in how setups are made.

Yes, but I never played with before.

It shouldn't be that unusual imo, although I have no experience with the role.

Fair enough. I am just more used to an era of a weaker investigative role being more of the Tracker, Goon Cop, Motion Detector, Voyeur, type ones. This one makes sense though. Just was wondering if it was commonplace or not for what was claimed.

Night X at least again used to be rare but I can see how its worked... but Even/Odd or X-Shot was very common.

Also I fully expect to not die at night due to so many claims (even if Ame/Alice is scum) but if it does happen you all need to massclaim tomorrow because there is no way all of the claimed PRs are scum and it probably catches someone.

I feel like scum would choose to kill you, considering that you are a threat to them bc of your experience with setup. But logically speaking, it makes more sense if one of the PRs dies, so yeah, that's what I'm expecting too.

pedit: Hum.

[clidd]

Lotus, take a look at that Amélie's scumgame that it is on my iso.

You'll probably change your mind.

[clidd]

@clidd - So you have DGB as solid town, and Dann who did some odd soft claim and then backed off it but still seems to be saying they have a role as more neutral? If you had to guess what is Dann role wise if he is scum?

Yep.

If I had to guess, in a scum!Dann scenario, I would say that he's some kind of scum tracker. He needed to know that DGB was on Biped.

[clidd]

But only if scum!Dann was real.

[clidd]

I'm reading him more based on the fact that he is not being so towny recently compared to his entry into the game than the claim aspect.

But yeah, you're right that he could've done better with the claim as scum.

[clidd]

Arg, I need sone sleep.

Back later.

[clidd]

I'm not scumreading Dann, he's just low in my readlist.

[clidd]

I'm working with the "if" assumption in relation to scum!he, but that does not mean that I believe in this theory. Just to make it clear.

[clidd]

I still want Amélie particularly, but as I said earlier, a wagon on Alice is decent too.

[clidd]

@Gera

There can also be scum on some higher tr, so it's not mandatory to have scum in the trio that is conceptually lower.

[clidd]

vfp i am voting clidd, i stand by that.

Disappointing.

Not seeing scumhunting coming from you would usually be a red flag, but your prolonged interpretation of my slot without the proper evolution may make sense from a perspective of confbias, that is, town perspective, which is one of the reasons for me not pushing you rn.

[clidd]

The solution between Amélie and Alice is quite simple:

If Alice's replacement is towny> vote on Amélie.

If Alice's replacement is scummy> vote on Alice.

If Alice's replacement is neutral, however, we will debate the two slots again and evaluate together with Amélie's new posts to decide who will be voted.

[clidd]

Assuming that 3 days will be enough, of course, which I'm not sure about in the third scenario.

[clidd]

I don't see myself voting Dgb.

[clidd]

That's bad logic again, but I respect since it's your way of playing.

[clidd]

@Vfp

Do you have a take on Solon by play? I'm having trouble getting a concrete read with his latest sequence of posts.

[clidd]

@Llama

What do you think about Gera?

I'm mostly reading him by meta/his likely confbias thing, but but I didn't look at the slot individually (regardless of these concepts).

[clidd]

For example, these are things that Gera said in his towngame:

Spoiler:

updating my thoughts from post 1741

Bugspray - does have an early vote for Cook Day 1, but then lots of town.
I am not going to give them much credit for an early Day 1 vote on scum that got moved elsewhere quickly for no strong reason (it was Vote Jim I dig)
i still have them as leaning scum

Jim Hawkins
lean town
they eliminated Cook day 1, were one of the earlest votes on which stuck. i tend to give town credit for votes on scum that didn't really need to be there and could have come off before an elimination

Rlotus
lean scum
eliminated Cook day one, but one of the later votes when cook was looking like toast, and tried to jump off before coming back.
since then lots of town votes

Egix
everything is voting for town
lean scum

Flea

lean town

i am not going to vote for Flea or Jim today.

Egic, Rlotus and Bugspray look worst

latest vote count though is

Egix and Rlotus for Flea
Jim and Bugsray for me

VOTE: rlotus but i think the 2 are in the rlotus, bugspray, egix

Scum can buss and town can be wrong and suspect town.

How do you differentiate?

with guesses? i have at no point said my method is infallible, but it is the best i have. On average, scum will vote for town more often than town do, and will vote for scum less than town. they will be on final eliminations of scum less than town. and votes placed on scum if placed early in wagons and leave (especially easily) look suspect.

we can argue over my way of thinking if you wish, but i'd rather people actually respond to who i suspect is scum and say if they think i am on the right track or not - either those i have eliminated or those ive left in

Trying to go through everyone's reads to make sense of it

Clidd has
Rlotus/jim hawkins town
Bugspray/Egic/Flea scum
me lean scum

Rlotus has
Clidd/Jim Hawkins/Egix as town
me as lean scum
Flea/Bugspray scum

Bugspray is weird

Has me and Flea as scum
Egix lean scum
but also in 1726 has Flea as town

Jim Hawkins has

Flea, Egix, Bugspray as scum
and voted me

Flea
Rlotus as town
Jim hawkins as null
me as scum
voted for egix

Egix

has Jim hawkins and clidd as town
Rlotus lean town
me lean scum
bugspray and flea as scum

If anyone wants to correct my readings of people's opinions, then please do.

I am going to VOTE: Bugspray
i think Rlotus could have switched to me today if they had really wanted to and get an elimination, but they have held off. bugspray seems inconsistent in their posts today, i've never liked their vote history

He has a strange method of considering votes exclusively as AI, as well as the traction of a wavy line of logic to reach conclusions.

Kind of a headache to read through, so I need to recall the memory of how scum!Gera looks like.

Leaning town for now, anyways.

[clidd]

I normally look at votes when i can to help me narrow down suspects.

clidd, RLotus, Dannflor, Gretchen, Featherless Biped, bugspray, Solon
These were the votes on the wagon yesterday.

Obv, Featherless was town.

Clidd voted in 988, was a blank vote. first voted back in 570. I cannot work out why they ever voted for Hypo

RLotus, hypo was their random vote. final vote was 1012. it came out of nowhere, they hadn't mentioned hypo much in the preceeding posts, little effort to consider other wagons after that.

DAnnflor - voted 1013 (and 1009)

Yeah the IC claim is probably fake but I thought I'd put it out there anyway since some people have taken it seriously. It's not alignment indicative for April to make fake claims like that.

DGB could be scum. They haven't been particularly gungho about pushing anything, besides a couple weak posts here and there going after me.

HypoSoc, I go back and forth on, I *think* I've settled on their focus of the IC claim being town indicative? I also scum read their posting style but realize it might be just that, a posting style. meh, I wish I had something more solid here

this post doesn't fill me with much confidence that the vote was a strong genuine read on the slot.

so far, i find all three of these votes looking bad

Gretcehn - voted in 1019

See, yeah, compared to "late activated IC", Novice Detective IS something that makes sense for scum to claim.

Also, it feels like you made the claim pretty early... like, as town it's a role you want to keep secret. You weren't at risk of being hammered immediately (only E-2 at the time you made the claim, if I counted correctly), so why would you give up the town power role's anonymity so quickly?

Edit by way of preview: +1 to April's "frustrated scum" analysis

lmao i want to vote him for this post alone. infact i will do that, VOTE: HypoSoc

my god, doesn anyone want to look terrible voting for Hypo? you can't all 4 be scum. there was a little bit better progression before this vote though, they dont look quiet as bad the at the other three.

bugspray - this just felt like someone wanting a wagon to get over the line, trying hard to to eliminate someone (who turned out to be town)

Solon - i have no idea what to make of this slot, they barged in late, over eager and happy to hammer anything.

I am frankly hating pretty much the entire wagon, especially as by the time eliminaton actually happened they just felt so unlikely to be scum. it would have been better to not eliminate.

If I consider that to be standard for town!Gera, I would say that the post above is a very positive sign ^

The

''my god, doesn anyone want to look terrible voting for Hypo? you can't all 4 be scum''

is a foolish thing to say as scum!Gera.

[clidd]

I need to recall the memory of how scum!Gera looks like.

I can change my mind about it depending on what I get from it ^

[clidd]

@Amélie

What's your opinion on the slots you did not mention above? (Grechen, Gera, Dann, Solon etc)

[clidd]

I would prefer to see more of what she is thinking about the game before changing my vote (if applicable).

Alternatively, we have yet to see who will be Alice's replacement and now what impression a new person on Solon's slot will show.

[clidd]

Btw, this is what scum!Gera looks like:

Spoiler:

thoughts on frogster

had a strong red on nosferatu earyl game, loads of long posts.
then switched and said gamma and banana were...but not the associated long posts with evidence.

back to long log posts on rc enimgma

528 - vague post hinting at scum but not disclosing any actual reads

weird read on CFJ about them being scum, but not wanting to lynch. instead focussing on nosferatu and banana

662 - raya is now scum

734 - wants to look at walter in case they are scum (and later asks permission from not mafia to join that wagon)

overall, they are throwing a lot of scum reads around. sticks with them but quickly moves onto the next shiny thing. not impressed

(tryng to go trough these in order of number of posts)

thoughts on taylor swift

their entrance seems fine,i find their method of reading not townie or scummy just fine. except they manage to get two scum votes as they go through

679 - already said I dislike this when they group so many together as potential scum

690 - said already dislike them saying we aren't allowed to discuss their votes

by 730 have hard turned away from walter

thoughts - it was a good entrance, but posts have dialled back and now just seems in an style disagreement with nosferatu and I don't like the way they entered in hard against walter and now they aren't in their top 3.
I realise I already finding it easy to find bad things to say about everyone and not looking for good things.

Game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

[clidd]

Superficial reads and robotic opinion structure, I would say.

His posts are significantly less organic as scum and try to deliver additional details that do not express a genuine scumhunting.

Comparatively, I believe that his posting flow here reminds me much more of our last game, in which he was town, than that specific scumgame.

pedit: I believe that she has the potential to express herself better. Didn't find her last post so convincing.

[clidd]

Hum..

I am 99% sure I've never been in game with either of you two before.

Day 1 I generally mope around and complain about how day 1s suck. I rarely move my vote around. I plan to do exactly the same this game.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12068660 ~ Mafia PT



I don't remember you complaining on D1 here, although your reluctance to change your vote is suggestive.

But as we are on D2, perhaps this premise is not so valid as I think.

[clidd]

alice solon vfp?

As a solve?

[clidd]

Vfp is towny, but I assume you are using April (FL) to read the slot as scum.

[clidd]

I don't remember, probably didn't full claim.

[clidd]

@Llama

Actually, I'm scumreading April more than him, lol.

But perhaps this is a difference in our perceptions of the slot.

[clidd]

Now I'm paranoid.

[clidd]

So we have like all scum inside: {Amélie, Alice, Vfp, Solon, Lotus}?

[clidd]

I still want to see something more from Amélie before moving on.

[clidd]

Regarding Bug/Lotus, both were at first very similar to their recent scumgame, but I feel some differences now.

Bug is less charismatic and is paying less attention compared to scum!Bug, while Lotus is more shallow in his comments, something different from the semi-walls that scum!Lotus did when explaining his reads in that game.

This does not necessarily make them town, as it is not that difficult to switch play from one game to the other, but my mind tells me that these traits probably leverage the slots upward, unless I feel/see something that makes me change of idea.

Ydrasse reflects me as ''lost'', and this is unusual, considering that she can project on a organic level a flow of towny interactions as scum, just like she did in FL vs Hectic.

The apathy and the gradual loss of interest, as well as the eventual exit, within the context of she needing to play in side games and not having the time for the current game (plus boring gamestate), make me think that the slot is likely town. There is still a chance of scum!Ydrasse simply not being interested in the game, but I am convinced that I can reevaluate if that is the case depending on the successor.

Mini has given me positive impressions, but I have not yet carefully checked his meta and his current position is more due to complacency on my part. He will fall or stay depending on the conclusion I have + what he posts.

AliceK asked Entrapta a very specific question regarding her interaction with Bugspray which I found very difficult in terms of projection if scum!Alice was the person who made the observation. Considering that she is a real newbie, at least for the fact that she occupied a newbie slot in a newbie game, I am viewing this unique attention to details as potentially towny. Can change too depending on what she posts.

VOTE: clidd
Clidd's noncomittal reads are causing alarm bells to loudly blare in my head.

He will fall or stay depending on the conclusion I have + what he posts.

Can change too depending on what she posts.

There is still a chance of scum!Ydrasse simply not being interested in the game, but I am convinced that I can reevaluate if that is the case depending on the successor.

This does not necessarily make them town, as it is not that difficult to switch play from one game to the other, but my mind tells me that these traits probably leverage the slots upward, unless I feel/see something that makes me change of idea.

This read, like the others, is not fixed, so depending on how things happen my interpretation may change.

In addition most of the reads do not have as much depth as would first appear. The reads on me/rllotus/gerain compares us to how we played in a recent game with clidd where lotus+I were scumbuddies and he groups us again here. Clidd is a very intelligent and analytical player and I would expect town!clidd would separate us and give a more in depth read. The last thing about this postchain that strikes me as fucky is [post]445[/port] where he includes a gif of benedict cumberbatch (for those who may not have noticed benedict cumberbatch is clidd's fursona) appearing out of breath. Playing as scum is far more exhausting than playing as town. Usually after posting some kickass reads as town I feel invigorated and the adrenaline makes me hit that f5 button for like TEN MINUTES but posting a meticulously crafted readlist as scum takes a lot of fucking energy. Also, town!clidd asks a lot of people some really good detective-y questions and I have not seen him go for as many of those interactions this game. I believe this is due to the fact that he does not want to generate too many weird interactions with his scumbuddies and get caught by an associative read.

editing by way of posting

I think that Bugspray is town because of this post ^

It's outside of his scum-range.

[clidd]

Regarding Llama, he has been towny for a good period of time and has helped to advance the gamestate.

Considering that both the predecessor and the current owner of the slot present evidence of being town, it is difficult for me to see a coherent scenario of scum!Llama.

Not sure what you're seeing.

[clidd]

This was directed at Vfp ^

[clidd]

Alice is e-2 rn.

[clidd]

After a reread on Alice's ISO, she seems like a coinflip

I can easily see scum coasting as well as town coasting.

[clidd]

Which one is more likely?

Well..

[clidd]

She only has one completed game on the site:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

[clidd]

As town, of course. 0 experience as scum.

I wonder how she would react after seeing her first red role (if that's the case here).

[clidd]

What kind of agenda? Generally, what have you been doing today that you don't think you'd do as scum? What should we be townreading you for?
Have you been scum before elsewhere?

Eliminate strong players, protect Mafia. That would be the simplest one.

I don't know what I would do differently as Mafia. I believe I didn't provide enough content to be townread. I didn't roll a scum yet.

Hum.

[clidd]

Her towngame is very basic, I didn't find anything extraordinary that caught my attention other than the fact that she apparently didn't receive any prod in that game (different from here).

[clidd]

She strikes me as rigid scum

Her reads and views aren’t adapting, she still wants to push my elim because..????

I didn't reevaluate my reads that is true, but did you do something to change my mind?

That's a weird interaction.

[clidd]

Ahh I dropped in activity. I think my wagon is a little bit forced by bugspray for some reason.

I am 100% sure that bugspray, April are Town.

Hum.

[clidd]

Town: Clidd
Null: Geraintm, RLotus, Dannflor, Solon, VFP, Bugspray
Scum: AliceK, DrippingGoofball, Gretchen

I think there is a high chance that all your scum tells are all Town.

Idk what she tried to say here, but if it's related to Amélie's scumpool, it is unusual for her to use the word "chance" and include herself instead of focusing on the other two (Dgb, Grechen). Could be a perspective slip or she just didn't care abour how she was going to say that.

[clidd]

VOTE: bugspray

To steal pagetop

Also:

what are your thoughts on 15

dis scummy

I'm semi-outed, the only person on this list who would know me who doesn't (I think) already know this alt is bugspray. Hi bugspray!

If I need to out for bugspray sanity I will, idc, this isn't a very secretive alt tbh

I think your interactions with bugspray are weird Entrapta. You forgot that you already interacted with bugspray? -> didn't really pay attention to the read -> the read is likely fake
VOTE: Entrapta

Interesting post, but not enough.

[clidd]

Yep, stills a coinflip.

[clidd]

Well, Amélie is scumposting.

[clidd]

My guess is that she is coming from a scum mentality trying to emulate a town perspective and how she would express herself about Alice as town, but not necessarily rationalize whether it really makes sense to her to think in such way.

[clidd]

VC 2.05

Dannflor (0)-

Amélie (5)-

DrippingGoofball, Gretchen, bugspray, VFP, dannflor

(E-1)

DrippingGoofball (1)-

RLotus

AliceK (1)-

Solon

geraintm (0)-

Gretchen (1)-

Amélie

VFP (0)-

RLotus (1)-

AliceK

clidd (0)-

bugspray (0)-

Solon (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

geraintm, clidd

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to Eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-03-21 19:00:00)

-

Mar 21st 19:00 GMT

This is the closest Amélie got to being eliminated ^

4 town and 1 maybe/maybe not town inside the wagon.

[clidd]

I'm open for a wagon on DGB or Amélie, depending on what they both post in the next 24 hours.

Then I did this post, implying that I could hammer Amélie if she reflected me as scum.

[clidd]

It is quite late here but since Clidd requested my presence, I'm here. Nothing in the game has changed much since I last checked in except that I might drop geraint and I'm worried about RLotus town reading me. Geraint's doesn't seem like he believes in the push he is making on me. He feels like he knows I'm town and is constantly thinking about ways to scum read me in his long and wordy posts that really are just saying things that could be summed up in three sentences. I don't see a reason for scum Lotus to not just hammer me at E-1 but I also don't see why town Lotus would townread me. In my last game with Lotus, they barely had a read on me. I have been getting more and more certain clidd is town because of how he has been actually thinking. When I was scum, I didn't think before I posted whereas as town I spend time thinking about what and why I have certain reads. I reconsider and think more. Clidd's reads have changed naturally and he has taken the time and effort to meta players. I think he is most likely town. If there is a town cop, I strongly encourage they target me tonight because I will become a more and more likely mislim as the game progresses especially given my lack of time currently.

I still strongly believe Gretchen is scum and I think no other wagon is better than that one. I'll post an updated reads list tomorrow morning.

Her reaction was this wall, shading more than one player, although her main position was at Gretchen.

[clidd]

Alternatively, I can be confbiasing after having concluded by meta that she is probably scum and interpreting each event in a way that fits the scum!Amélie theory. Hard to say.

[clidd]

Anyways, Solon/Alice need to be replaced, we're waiting for that, which means a deadline extension, also means more talk, less rush and more stagnation.

[clidd]

As long as we get the right elim in the end, it's fine.

[clidd]

Stop scumposting Gera, you are supposed to be town.

[clidd]

Wait, deadline is not frozen.

[clidd]

@Mod

We'll get more time, right?

2 players haven't been replaced yet.

[clidd]

Scumteam's reaction after seeing that we will not receive additional time even without two players:

[clidd]

clidd 100% town to me.

Yeah, I have this effect sometimes. I decided before replacing the slot that my play would be intentionally apathetic this game, but I suddenly felt energy spikes and decided to get more involved.

[clidd]

Thanks nm.

[clidd]

For some reason, Gera is not reading the game appropriately and his recent posts are "??"

I expected him to extract something more substantial from the last few pages.

[clidd]

I didn't give it any thought, I just wanted to see the changes in the wagons with three players having 2 votes.

I have a feeling that Llama will just find any reason under the sun here to not lim on amelie when it comes to it.
And given Llama is one of about 4 people posting I can't see any progression for today, until we get replacements at least.


Let's just hope Dann doesn't get replaced too.

I still think that his slot is town and the fact that he's advocating for an elimination that makes more sense in his eyes, although political, makes sense to me. It's not like he magically determined that he would prefer Alice, there was a previous thought about the slot on his part and now he's taking a stand.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Actually lets do this instead

Vote AliceK

Day one they do nothing in terms of scumhunting. There actually is an over two week span where they are on Entrapa (Dann) and actually never address any reasons or try and gather any other support. Just sits back and says little while others peruse things. Also seems to at most just chainsaw April slot quite a bit.

Day two they show heavy interest in getting a claimed PR ran up, and then moves off the claimed PR for... the player the claimed PR says to have somewhat cleared because that player has a town read on someone. We are on day two. We have multiple claimed PRs. Alice is voting someone, who one of the PRs is saying they have down as clear, because Alice doesnt think there is a reason to have that strong of a town read on the player. Its also just confusing because if you think Solon is lying and never cleared Lotus... the move is to vote Solon.

She has been hesitant to do anything the whole game, attacking a player for being too confident in a town read (which lets me honest, the confidence there doesnt even seem high) and has routinely either refused to or decided not to try and get any sort of a push together to try and move the game in a direction they wanted. This is what scum who is happy keeping a status quo in the game looks like. I feel ive added more to this game in one day than Alice has in one month. This needs to start being the wagon.

I mean, she's a lhf in my view, but I really have no argument beyond that(and the "she looks like Hypo" thing) to sustain a tr on the slot. I'm just not voting her rn after seeing your points (which are good) to keep some momentum on Amélie's wagon, in case someone sympathizes with my read there.

You cant just use lhf when talking about anyone who hasnt been contributing as a reason to pass it off. Maybe the closest you can come to claiming that is if you think it applies to multiple players and im intentionally going after the path of least resistance. Also how are you "sustaining a town read" on Alice? You have had one up until this point?

Just look at the end to day one. Alice is devoting more time into figuring out if bug still thinks she is scum than she is trying to give any opinions on Hypo (literally never mentions him - all of day one). This wagon needs to happen if for no other reason than to force content out of her. Its inexcusable that I have a better idea of what the NKed players reads are than her reads. Her priorities are all over the place, and it doesnt add up with a player who is interested in catching scum. Its more in line with a player who is concerned about how others read them.

@DGB - Can you do me a quick favor and just confirm that you got a "positive" result N1?

Missed this. Emphasis mine

The defeatism is fake. Fake things don't always come from scum.
VOTE: Gretchen
Why did you latch on me the moment I called you scum?
I think the reason is because you are either DrippingGoofBall's scum buddy and you are trying to save them.
Or
DrippingGoofBall is town that you think is a mislim better saved for later.

DrippingGoofBall has constantly been scummy this entire game offering close to zero reasons to back up any of their thoughts. They are either scum or town that is playing poorly. Either way scum would want to save them here because they are either a scum buddy or not a threat to scum.

I admit my logic has been all over the place this game. However, you are the one constantly picking on that which I have felt weirdly about for a while now. There is no possible way you think town all have good logic and scum bad logic.

I'm not sure if that is the hammer but quickly before I go to work, last words are that I think Dripping is probably town at this point. This is too suicidal. If that wasn't the hammer, we need to think a bit before doing anything. They are being very suicidal and I just think at this point, it comes from town.

If DrippingGoofball is scum and that was the hammer, I'm happy to call Dannflor scum for a hammer out of nowhere. Solon's vote is horrible but that was minimegabyte and she was a solid townread of mine. I don't like VFB but I could see them being scum and that's it.

Back to the cop on me request please

.

Ame is simultaneously voting for the claimed NC, and asking for them to target her (which in of itself is all types of bad to start). Those things dont really mesh. That Gretch vote is also... bad. Ame calls Gretch scum for buying into DGB "defeatism", then goes on to say its not a scumtell (ie null-town) to sound defeated, then creates a false dillema where no matter what DGB is Gretch has to be scum by ignoring two other options (town is being tricked by scum or town is correctly defending town), then votes a claimed investigative roll (which gets bonus points on its own for its formatting).

Not to mention that Ame is calling DGB town now, and a pretty big part of her Gretch vote seems to center around Gretch calling DGB town.

Vote Ame

One of Ame and Alice need to go today. Im back on Ame side.

@DGB - Is there anyone that you would not vote today?
@clidd - So you have DGB as solid town, and Dann who did some odd soft claim and then backed off it but still seems to be saying they have a role as more neutral? If you had to guess what is Dann role wise if he is scum?

My problem here is I think there is no way Dann/DGB/Salon are all town. I would back Salon+Dann/DGB before all three are town here.

Looking at what Lotus just said... im fine moving back. Especially as I actually agree that the Ame wagon just doesnt seem fully right (outside of two PR claims actually being scum)

Vote Alice

I think everyone needs to be voting Alice, Ame or DGB right now unless you have a big reason to move elsewhere.

The only question I remember is why I haven't voted. I'm not sure how to answer that. I just haven't?

Voting is important. It shows weight to reasoning, it allows for connections to be made between players and it helps track timetables.

Im starting to read Ame as lost-town. They have no idea about what is going on in the game (to the point they are voting a claimed cop and dont realize it) or are completely faking it.

In this sequence, for example, he alternates between Amélie and Alice, until he reaches the point where he's most convinced on Alice ^

[clidd]

I mean, I prefer Amélie for today, but to continue coexisting with a slot like Alice, which can easily be a scum coasting, is bad town play anyways.

Let's see if something changes with the new players.

[clidd]

I was inclined to consider that Vfp and Llama are both town, but there seems to be an indirect friction between the two that I don't think would be so evident if it was a T|T relationship.

Town!Vfp should be able to identify town!Llama and vice versa. The absence of this makes me think T|S, but I'm not so sure to suppose that town!Llama necessarily implies scum!Vfp. Perhaps there is some other explanation for this that I'm not seeing.

[clidd]

If I had to find a scenario where both are town and are suspicious of each other, I would also have to consider a strange level of paranoia that does not seem natural to me. Almost as if there had to be scum between these two.

But then again, maybe there is something that I'm overlooking.

[clidd]

Idk, I feel that you would come to the conclusion that the other is town if you were both town.

It's the same kind of read I had between Pooky and Pizza in our past game.

[clidd]

"our past game" technically speaking, since you replaced in that game with me already dead and we didn't get to interact, so you probably don't know what I'm talking about.

[clidd]

Yeah, I saw, it was sad.

But this is normal, everyone has a bad game eventually. It doesn't mean that because you were townreading scum in that game that you are a bad player, just that the scum seemed towny to you.

[clidd]

Lack of confidence, however, will damage your games.

I would suggest playing with the sense that if you're right, fine, you've done your part, and if you're wrong, fine, learn from mistakes.

[clidd]

That's an advice for future towngames, btw, regardless of your alignment here.

[clidd]

Me waiting for the replacements:

[clidd]

I mean, I had you as a townread in our past game because of that kind of post (and you were scum), so I'm really not buying. You'll have to find a way to towntell.

[clidd]

My problem with your post is that your opinions seems to be posed and I feel that you are playing in a similar way to what I saw from scum!Amélie.

[clidd]

You also take a long time to post and your flow is not organic.

[clidd]

But it doesn't matter, your wagon isn't likely to happen rn.

[clidd]

Your post basically starts from the conclusion "Clidd is scum" and how my posts would fit into such scenario ^

[clidd]

Which means that you are looking for reasons to confirm something that you want to be right or have already judged to be true, but not that you are really evaluating impartially. This is called confirmation bias.

[clidd]

Amelie still rubs me as playing dumb and her reada have a lot of logical holes but i don't think i believe in her flipping maf anymore

She isn't dumb, I'm convinced that she understands what is going on. The difference is that she is only shown what is convenient for her to display

[clidd]

Massclaim is impossible atm, we need everyone online.

[clidd]

Meh, I'll just vote Alice if that means get rid of an eternal afk slot, but not yet. I'm giving a chance for someone to replace in.

[clidd]

@Gera

I think that you're town, so if you are not able to reciprocate the read towards me, there is an evaluative error occurring on your part, either because you are not reading the game properly or there is something in my behavior that you consider conceptually as scummy, regardless of whether my high activity and transparency say otherwise. Probably confbias, as I said before.

[clidd]

And considering that the read is incorrect, you should be able to eventually recognize it and break free from the cognitive statics, I just don't know when.

[clidd]

I'd be fine with a mass claim with who we have.
I'm not expecting much else to come put of it but knowing for sure would be good.
Plus you never know...

I'm not sure, massclaim works better when all players are available.

[clidd]

I'll give 24 hours to the Alice slot. If no one appears, I'll vote.

[clidd]

Looking forward to your takes, Flea.

Your slot has been a coinflip for me, so I hope you can change that.

[clidd]

You have read everything and 8 pages are left or you're getting to page 8?

[clidd]

I hope you don't take too long reading the scum PT before posting, almost50.

[clidd]

@Amélie

Can you briefly describe your read in each slot? (with reasons, regardless of being gut or not).

[clidd]

Flea, I can't read your posts carefully due to the limitations of the mobile atm (small screen), but I need a summarized explanation of why you think Dgb's giving up and selfvote comes from scum instead of town and if you know/already played with Dgb before to know if that kind of attitude would make sense to scum!him.

Most of my games in which a player gave up and appealed to the emotive with a self-vote the flip was town, so for me it's problematic to consider this element as scum indicative.

[clidd]

Regarding Grechen, I intend to reevaluate the slot when I have time. My current read is town, but I haven't revisited her in a while.

[clidd]

sup guys

Oh, hello Mister Pooky.

Such a hemorrhagic surprise, I would say.

[clidd]

Even better if we share the same align, but let's see.

[clidd]

I was a spectator of many games, don't remember the one you're saying.

If scum!Dgb is capable of fakeclaiming with good planning, however, you have a point, but the AtE still doesn't reflect me as scummy.

[clidd]

If you have any example of scum!Dgb appealing to the emotional, even a little, I will be more inclined to listen to your read on it.

[clidd]

Alright.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

[clidd]

I'm back here.

VOTE: Amélie

[clidd]

Flea is a townlean.

Very similar to what I remember from town!Flea in other games in the sense of gamesolving.

[clidd]

But I don't exactly agree with the arguments being used to justify scum!Dgb. The reaction does not reflect me as scummy, regardless of how many times I read that post period between Dgb/Dann.

[clidd]

It would be better if Dgb participated actively in the game and shared its reads. Based on this we can better judge whether the slot is scum or not.

[clidd]

In relation to Amélie, the wall was very poor and her read on me is based exclusively on the way I'm seeing her slot, almost like a mirror. A town mentality would try to evaluate the other actions in my slot as a whole to determine whether I'm scum or town and not just based on a single read, so my impression of the slot has not yet changed.

[clidd]

Something I've noticed

its

is

town AtE tends to be more apathetic and more nuanced, scum AtE is HERES MY EMOTIONS NOW SUFFER. To me, DGBs AtE lacks the nuance of town AtE.

Fixing this now I've noticed before it bites me in the ass. This is a general case and not a specific to DGB one.

My vote on Dgb was before I saw this, btw.

[clidd]

I'll give some time for Pooky to relax and see what he can get from the game.

But if there is no townhunting or scumhunting on his part, the slot is probably scum.

[clidd]

I will probably adopt an elimination policy on any slot that makes a self-vote + AtE. It's an unethical conduct and difficult to assess in AI terms.

[clidd]

If you're scum, fine, you're doing your thing.

But if you're town, that's the same as scumsiding.

[clidd]

And I do think that your frustration is coming from town, Dgb, but you're putting me in a difficult position by not sharing reads and insisting on self victimization.

[clidd]

I mean, your investigation is not the mistake that is causing you to be pushed, but the lack of collaboration. Town will not lose the game if you are eliminated today (and is town), but scum will have the advantage. There is always the possibility of reassessment, but you are not seeing that for some reason.

[clidd]

I think Flea is town but with an incorrect interpretation of Dgb.

Or we are all wrong and Dgb did emotional manipulation.

In any case, I agree with Pooky that its slot needs to play ^

[clidd]

If you're scum, fine, you're doing your thing.

But if you're town, that's the same as scumsiding.

No it's not.

If you're town, do you want me at end game??,

If you're town, yes.

[clidd]

You finally did something.

UNVOTE: Amélie

[clidd]

I can see Clidd thinking I am scum as town but I can't see Clidd thinking Goofball is scum after Flea's posts because those were not convincing.

You're probably missing the post bellow.

But I don't exactly agree with the arguments being used to justify scum!Dgb. The reaction does not reflect me as scummy, regardless of how many times I read that post period between Dgb/Dann.

[clidd]

It's your turn.

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

[clidd]

Your turn to solve.

Town!Pooky always has good reads, so you might have some hot take by now.

[clidd]

not as a replacement dude lol

Just take a quick look at the slots and describe what you think. It doesn't have to be anything detailed.

[clidd]

I still hope to see more of Pooky. The brief description was not exactly what I was expecting.

[clidd]

Gera posting has been extremely poor, but I'm still giving it a pass due to my meta analysis on him earlier.

[clidd]

Dgb and Flea are likely TvS or TvT but never SvS (this should be obvious to anyone reading).

[clidd]

By gut, I would say it is TvS because of the way the discussion is going on, but I am in conflict because I feel that the two are towny (each in their own way).

[clidd]

The sad thing is that he could be playing like that as town.

But there is no gamesolving on his part, so.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[clidd]

Correction: Sad part*

[clidd]

After a reread on my iso, I think I was decent enough in the sense of gamesolving to be at least a townlean from the perspective of Town!Gera. He played with town!me and I’m not very different here, but the insistence on “I’m still stuck in my clidd vote”, “I don’t have any other reads” and the lack of desire to seek AI information about the game reflect me as a profound stagnant/poor behavior. I'm still not sure if he would be scum because of that, but I wouldn't mind if he's the elimination to avoid losing it if the deadline expires.

[clidd]

One thought that came to my mind, btw, is the fact that Solon had an approximate period of 6 days of inactivity and received no prod.

I suppose that N_M could have just forgotten, but an interesting theory was if Solon was posting on some PT but not in the main chat and N_M was under the illusion that Solon was active and not needing a prod.

This is disgusting

VOTE: Clidd

@mod

can you confirm why I wasn’t prodded?

@Vfp

What do you think about this reaction?

[clidd]

@Vfp

What do you think about this reaction?

Personally I don't think what you said crossed any line, even though it had nothing to stand on as a whole.
The way I see it though, Solon was ill and this probably had affect on the reaction. That or Solon thinks that this was just a general dirty tactic.
It has nothing to do with their alignment though without a follow up.

I just think it's a wasted vote, and want A50 to either given a reason to keeping it or attempt to move else where.

Hum, fair. I agree.

[clidd]

VOTE: geraintm

E-2

[clidd]

I'm fine with any hammer on the Gera wagon.

Lack of claim + lack of reads + Weird pov = Goodbye.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Dgb vs Flea will hopefully solve itself tonight, so I have no interest in taking sides in the discussion.

[clidd]

If not Gera, A50 is the slot that makes more sense as a counter-wagon by play to me, but the slot claimed pr so I'm not touching him today unless Gera somehow didn't happen.

[clidd]

I can do A50 if two more players agree to join the wagon.

[clidd]

I was going to vote a50 but Gera did a really weird post.

Let me think about it again before voting.

[clidd]

Do you guys want me to hammer?

I prefer an elimination to no-elimination.

[clidd]

Unless the Gera wagon suddenly gains traction.

[clidd]

so dgb scum decided instead of hammering geratown that she should instead like not and just wait to die

is this the story im supposed to believe rn.

It could have overlooked this detail or thought it could escape the elimination without calling itself out as scum by hammering (within the scum!Dgb scenario).

But that is not the point.. This gamestate is bizarre.

It feels like I'm the one overlooking something, but idk what it is.

[clidd]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

It's time to get a flip, regardless of the content.

[clidd]

After the flip, my advise for everyone (who is town, of course) is to take the time to reread the game during the night and see each slot who entered the wagon individually, who avoided it, counter-wagons, motivations, affiliations, etc.

Tomorrow will be the day to take sides.

[clidd]

Flea is probably town who was tunneled on town and hardpushing it (not the first time I see happening).

But this is likely scum by play:

VOTE: Almost50

Unless there is a mechanical reason that says otherwise.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Alright, does anyone have any thoughts on DGB?

We have 2 days left.

I am the easiest person to yeet after all.

The more someone says this, the more likely they are to be eliminated but Goofball has said things similar to this in nearly every one of their posts.

Post 1328, Amelie.From "He feels like" to "townread me."

That's the town tell. I still can't figure out how to select text on mobile.

Unless people believe the scum team is Amelie/Goofball, why would Goofball ever townread the largest opposing wagon here as scum?

DGB, who is scum in your view?

Probably my town reads.

If Goofball was scum, their way out of this situation is town reads and getting help from them. Why would goofball shade all of them like this?

the easier it will be to say whether you are town or scum.

The townier I sound, the more people suspect me for sounding too townie.

I understand what Goofball means but saying things like this really doesn't convince people. It is what you think is obvious but others never see. This is desperate town trying to get someone to

understand

Is this true? I kind of feel like you should have been wagoned a lot harder based on your reaction to my "guilty" and yet

That's not my problem. I'm already self voting to make my yeet easier. I'm doing my part.

They believe advocating for their elim is the correct thing to do. Sometimes the things people think are so wrong that they are simply town.

I would imagine scum might be playing it safe towards your slot and not outright pushing it

Who the hell even knows? Scum would certainly get away with yeeting a self-destructing player slot, no one would even say a thing about it the next day. Whoever hammers me is probably going to be hailed as a hero.

Goofball is upset here but notice how they aren't AtE'ing. They aren't. If Goofball were to AtE, they would start saying things like "I have tried so hard in this game and my last game I died instantly"
Btu what does goofball say?
Goofball says "Come hammer me"

I was yeeted for being too good to be true in one game and for having strong scum reads (wrong as they may have been) in another, and then I get town read for doing fuck all beyond sucking all the joy out of the game.

Although this does get to meta and how they did in a past game, they haven't directly said they have tried hard in this game which I believe is definitely a point that would be brought up if they were intentionally AtEing

So.. Kind of waiting to see what the others (who didn't talk yet) think about dgb.

It shouldn't be complicated, if I were scum I'd vote you, I'd have 2 votes and you'd have 4.

But the way things are lately it'll probably be viewed as a galaxy brain scum plot.

It's this logic again. It makes sense but at the same times there's holes in their logic but you can tell. They believe it.

I just can't get townread no matter what I do.

But I accept i need to be yeeted because for some reason the scum NK'd the player i found most suspicious and no one thinks it's a good idea to figure out which players are happiest with the gamestate (hint, it's not me)

This is genuine frustration I guarantee. I can feel it one screen away.

The only reason I didn't find his play towny is because I was scammed before by scum with the cheap talk of

"I'm bad, just vote me, look I'm selfvoting, I don't want to share any reads bc my reads are bad and won't help"

and etc.

I find this so scummy, clidd must be town.

I'm going to stop here for now. I may finish off these remaining quotes later but my point has already been brought across. Goofball's posts are genuine frustration and they haven't cared about their own survival for a very long time. This is not scum. Reevaluate this slot any townies that are scum reading.

Normally I'd vote clidd because his scumbutt ticked me off but I need be gone for BS mechanical reasons.

It's actually your reaction to Dann having a possible guilty on you.

Sure

If I had not revealed it I'd be run up too, thanks to you.

I have to be eliminated. We can leave a player alive that was tracked to the NK. So yeah it's on me and I am the right play and I don't know why it's taking so long.

I'm not sure why DGB won't answer my question about amelie though. It does make me think that DGB could straight up be scum protecting scum buddie amelie.

I did answer, I was on mobile and awkwardly quoted.

I'm the yeet for today, you'll see soon enough that I'm not "protecting my buddy Amelie."

Shut down and do nothing and get town read for it, so absurd

It's a refreshing change from being yeeted because my efforts are too townie to be town.

Anyway Lotus

You sound like frustrated scum.

I thought I did but didn't.

I wish I'd been NK'd, of course I wasn't because I'm yeetbait.

This is going to be yet another stupid annoying day for me and I just want to see Flea's arrogance about knowing how my mind works deflate spectacularly.

This vote is protown and in furtherance of my wincon.

VOTE: DGB

Just kill me now.

My investigating Biped was the mistake that will cost the town the game and it's on me.

Goofball has done a couple things this game.
They have OMGUS'ed an insane amount.
They have voted nearly everyone.
They have made it their job to make every single person their enemy.
They have tried to drill it into everyone's mind that they are the elim.
They have been legitimately upset.
They have used all sorts of wacky logic and truly believed in them.

There is nothing in this world that screams town more than a player who does not care a single bit about getting eliminated in a game as dead as this one where scum can easily control the game state.

Btw, This is the post that made me reconsider my view on Amélie ^

I believe it would be very evident if it was TMI from scum!Amélie in relation to her read on Dgb.

Not seeing her as strong tr, of course, but as a townlean. I can still change my mind if I feel like she's scumposting.

[clidd]

It's not that hard for scum!Solon to invent a report on a town player (or partner), although it makes more sense to me that he might be trying to use the context of having ''cleared'' Lotus to gain his trust.

I just think he's scummy overall (the slot), both predecessor and successor.

[clidd]

I got a green light on Lotus

Very likely green light anyway

I don’t feel the need to reveal the specifics at this point, you’ll see when I flip

He did not specify.

[clidd]

Town Even Night Gunsmith
Night 1 Psychologist
Novice Detective

I don't know much about balancing, but for Solon to be a Tpr who has a type of report that "investigates" people in some way, it's strange combined with the roles that were already shown ^

Feel like town would have more power than needed in nightplay.

[clidd]

Which makes me think that he fakeclaimed.

[clidd]

This is mechanically speaking, but things don't change much in the social aspect considering that, by play, all three (Mini, Solon, Almost50) were poor in gamesolving.

Almost50, specifically, was the worst since after entering he made no attempt to engage with the game (while active in other games), just as no mention of his own role or result after the day started. It does not seem to me to be a behavior compatible with a tpr, even if apathy is particular to his profile. Town!50 would at least try to give the game a quick read during the night to have a basis on who he would perform the night action on (assuming he has one).

[clidd]

Is it possible to exist 5 tpr in a 13p game?

[clidd]

Now Pooky's turn

Yep, full-claim.

[clidd]

I don't get why Pooky is overreacting to something simple.

A50 had a massive iioa post and I didn't understand the content.

There is scum between Llama and Vfp, as I said yesterday.

[clidd]

Hum, maybe not, idk, but their interaction felt TvS (Vfp x Llama).

[clidd]

If we aren't doing any PR today, the best flip is between Gera, Flea and Amélie

Flea and Amélie are more towny to me than Gera, but I can still change my mind depending on what the trio posts today.

VOTE: geraintm

[clidd]

You're towny, I'm not voting you ^

[clidd]

I actually think that the solve is 1 of {A50/Pooky} + 2 of {Gera/Flea/Amélie} by reads.

Unless someone convinces me that we are in a scenario where all claims are from town.

[clidd]

An analysis from Llama about the roles would help a lot, by the way.

[clidd]

My impression is that the set:

Gun Smith odd
Gun Smith even
Psychologist N1
Novice Detective
Neapolitan

Make sense, mechanically speaking, except the Neapolitan, which seems to be fake.

But, as I said, my knowledge of setup is limited. I don't know if a Gun smith even and odd in the same game is something that happens often or not.

[clidd]

If I had to choose between PRs + reads, I would eliminate A50.

If I had to choose between PRs - reads, I would eliminate Pooky.

Quite simple.

But, If they are both town, then I have a problem because by PoE my solve would be 3 inside {Vfp, Gera, Flea, Amélie} (considering that Llama and Lotus are likely town by tpr reports + reads). If I apply occam's razor, I get the final Gera + Flea + Amélie solve in this scenario, which doesn't seem compatible, especially Gera + Amélie. So there must be scum among the PRs, between the results or you are scum (Vfp). More likely between PRs.

Alternatively, I could be wrong and the solution is simply Gera + Flea + Amélie if the PRs are town, but I have never seen an ''easy'' solution to be correct in an entire mafia year.

[clidd]

One theory I had in mind when reading the last few pages, in a scenario where scum!Pooky is real, was the disproportionate reaction after Lotus mentioned the solve Pooky + Clidd.

In addition to looking deliberately suspicious, the timing in which it occurred could suggest to Lotus an alleged fake panic reaction that could connect Pooky's slot to mine indirectly (and making me look suspicious too).

But I suppose town!Pooky could also feel the same way if he was offended by Lotus's pov. Just a theory anyways.

[clidd]

just checking in quickly to say i have seen that the day has restarted and all and i have nothing concrete myself to add to what Pooky has said. it is easter weekend and i have a couple of extra days off work so i'll catch up as best i can at some point the next day or two.

It's your turn to post everything you're thinking.

[clidd]

Well nuts. Thats me screwed.

That said, our investigatives should have some info.

You too.

[clidd]

I'm fine with basically any wagon at this point. Anything to get the day over with except goofball because I think goofball is definitely town. I will no elim over elimming goofball.

And you, Miss.

[clidd]

@Pooky

Take a break and then go back to the game.

Your opinion is important to help me/us understand your slot.

@A50

Stop doing filler posts and start gamesolving. Thanks.

[clidd]

Meh, kind of waiting for Gera to post more and Amélie to share what she's thinking.

[clidd]

I didn't understand the question, but by play A50 is scummy for me. I would have no problem voting on him except for the doubt regarding the mechanical aspect, which may be solved during the night (if he is still alive or not).

Today I'm between Gera and Amélie, because I believe that there is scum between them, but I don't necessarily think that both are scum (as long as there is scum among PRs).

Gera did not describe anything very suggestive in relation to his vision in each slot, individually, so I was unable to extract anything that would make me think that he is coming from a town mentality/perspective.

Amélie is someone I have had a few mental trips throughout the game, but just like Gera, I also need her to describe what she is thinking about the slots/game.

[clidd]

Flea can be scum, but that's less likely considering the way she led the tunnel last day on Dgb.

Seemed like TvT imo, in the sense of having looked more like town thinking that it had caught scum than scum performing a theater to push a miselim.

But my read also depends on how Flea plays the rest of D3.

[clidd]

Correction: considering the way

fae

led the tunnel last day on Dgb*

[clidd]

Vfp still reflects me as town. I can only see his slot as scum by PoE.

[clidd]

I'm not sure about Pooky. After a reanalysis of his sudden explosion in the period in which there was contact between him and Lotus, I believe that the feeling was real, that is, not performative, but that does not say much about alignment. I recently noticed many scenarios of frustration occurring more with town than scum, but that doesn't mean that every emotional sign will always be coming from town. Scum can also feel the same way.

But if I had a gun to my head, my guess would be that he's town.

[clidd]

Lotus and Llama are fine, I didn't see anything that caught my attention negatively.

[clidd]

That's it.

[clidd]

I felt some positive emotional vibrations from Gera, I will move here for now.

VOTE: Amélie

[clidd]

@Llama

Hard to say. You can have both town and scum on his wagon, considering that the slot is generally scummy regardless of the point of view you are coming from (informed or not).

I'm considering my read on him more individually atm.

pedit: He played like that as town in my last game with him, so idk.

[clidd]

I mean, his takes are bad and his scumhunting is conceptually weird, but I still haven't found a strong point of ''this is definitely scum'', which is why I'm going back and forth.

There is a decent chance that he's town acting scummy.

[clidd]

I mean, his takes are bad and his scumhunting is conceptually weird, but I still haven't found a strong point of ''this is definitely scum'', which is why I'm going back and forth.

There is a decent chance that he's town acting scummy.

What is your A50 and Flea reads?

A50 scum by play and predecessors. Flea neutral-town (I found the tunnel on Dgb yesterday towny, but recently I don't see an argument beyond that for the slot to be town).

[clidd]

I agree with a massclaim.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Ever played Turok64? The fog was real.

Where we at... Goin from my 2148.

I'll be back later today to read these new pages as well as post my opinion on the last wagon yesterday. I did not like that wagon and think its counter, geraintm, is scum. Desperate scum to be exact.

I look forward to it.

If I had to choose between PRs + reads, I would eliminate A50.

If I had to choose between PRs - reads, I would eliminate Pooky.

Why would you want to lim between the PRs at all? Give me another night (a second check) to either catch a scum or clear a townie, then you can take my results into account after I'm dead. Same applies to Pooky tbh. ALSO, Scum are going to have to shoot one of us regardless of whether they have a RB. The one still alive on D4 will tell you if Scum do have a RB.

Someones going to have to compile all the claims for me -.-;

im gonna sheep llama cuz hes the only one who i am sure is town and i am also fustrated enough by this game that I no longer want to spend effort on it

This is a weird vibe from the pooky I know and love :/

But my read also depends on how Flea plays the rest of D3.

Could be an interesting one, ngl. Pain flares are notorious for screwing with my game at this point -.-;

Correction: considering the way

fae

led the tunnel last day on Dgb*

[colour=red]<3[/color]

VOTE: Flea

I have a feeling it's going to be worthless to try a lim else where.

This screams at me... There's 2 votes on me, 1 with intent to discuss, 1 with sheep intent and then "oh no, nothing can prevent this miselimination! oh woe is me I must ensure that mercy is quick and painless!"

amma OMGUS you.

they were Alice day 1 and not on the wagon.
but day 2, boy were they all over DGB
their 5th post they voted for them. and it never, ever moved. I am someone who it takes a lot to get me worked up to a vote, and i cannot understand how a player new to game is so certain and just never shifts. it is the sort of thing i might do, but it is unusual from anyone else.
is this normal for flea?

*spit takes faer tea*

New to the game, bwahahahah. Sure if you say so.

*Laughs in meatworld and online player since 200X - may have had a 10 year break from online play.*

Your caution is my hesitance. Your absolute is my maybe. My meta is on my wiki if you're curious - besides, you've played with me before.

Also I think this is massclaim day. If anyone has an issue with that, or with me choosing the order, say so in next post.

I want to object, but I have no reason to. Have at it.

VOTE: VFP because you're on the fence, yet voting me because its inevitable and you keep pointing this out that my lim is going to happen. I get the big scumz from you.

Amélie I want more detailed reads from on the game as a whole.

Like I have no clue what she's thinking about some slots rn.

Why be defeatist, when you should know the only time I'm truly so is when an elimination is needed.

Either move your vote somewhere, or make a case.

I don't know that though?
VOTE: amelie

As i said, I don't see see it going any other way though. It was basically the same for DGB yesterday.
Players can pretend that reads or reasons matter, but in a game like this, they just don't.

the 3 scum are clidd vfp and flea

the 3 scum are clidd vfp and flea

I think still very good chance A50 is in that mix. This is also an explicit note to A50: You are targeting in that pool tonight. If you go anywhere else you die.

Mass claim order:

Clidd
Flea
VFP
Ame
Lotus

Everyone else has either claimed or done so by omission.

i think they're both scum so i dont care which one gets flipped

Vote Clidd

I hate being the conf town. I function best as the probably town because I need enough blowback to form reads well.

Lets go here for now. If you are town Clidd convince me to kill Flea instead. Massclaim still is happening though. You post at your turn to claim without one, you die.

VOTE: clidd

i already said who i think the three scum r

it doesnt matter what order we eliminate them in

in that scenario my will to play this game will descend to subzero

I will just add though, on a town flip here the scum team may just be amelie / Dann / Llama.

I guess this could be the case still.
The way Llama posts just keeps shouting scum at me.

VOTE: Pooky
I think I'm going to sit on this all day. I'm unable to work with Llama until i know that they actually are coming from a town mind.

checking in quickly UNVOTE: because no way clidd should be one vote from elimination when we are waiting for their claim (i get the idea of pressure, but i dont want them to accidentally be voted out and i would be very upset if anyone did before they had a chance to talk)

Why are you OK with your own flip? You've just seen me drill into someone for AtE and now you're pulling the same defeatist shiz.

Why me over Clidd? Why yourself at all? Why vote pooky, throw shade at Llama?

Because we don't win here. Its not AtE, its knowing how the game ends.
I've suspected Llama since yesterday, you can call it shade, I call it reasonable suspicion. Llama is experienced enough to know when to use the term confirmed town.

You over Clidd as I think you flip scum more times than Clidd here.

Pooky because I can.

[clidd]

This game is confusing, I still have the feeling that I'm overlooking something.

[clidd]

It's not normal for town!Pooky to read me as scum here and this level of confidence is not compatible with the strength of his reads.

His frustration, however, struck me as a town sign and is in conflict with the impression above. I do believe that A50 is more likely to be scum among PRs, if any, although Pooky seems to be scumsiding atm (maybe unconsciously).

[clidd]

I'm not buying Amélie as town over Gera.

We probably hit scum if we elim her slot today or tomorrow.

[clidd]

My claim is VT, by the way.

[clidd]

Vfp x Flea is weird, but I'm not getting anything AI from the interaction of the two rn.

[clidd]

Vfp stills more towny than Flea anyways.

[clidd]

Basically:

Amélie

+

{A50 or Pooky}

+

???

[clidd]

I will share more thoughts later.

After that, you guys are free to do whatever you want with my slot.

[clidd]

Or eliminate scum (Amélie), preferably.

[clidd]

Basically:

Amélie

+

{A50 or Pooky}

+

???

Actually, just

Amélie

for now.

At least until someone of the PRs dies and some information is obtained from it.

[clidd]

Hum. I have nothing new to add.

I still think Amélie is a deepwolf after a reread and I intend to keep my vote there.

[clidd]

For example,

here:

Spoiler:

A couple posts caught my attention in RVS which is a couple more than normal so I decided I'd include a section for RVS.

14 days gives us plenty of time I don’t think I’ve ever played a game where the first day has been 14 days long

I don't see why you choose to mention this. I did not notice this personally but I don't think it's anything too worthy of noting.

14 days gives us plenty of time I don’t think I’ve ever played a game where the first day has been 14 days long

That's a lot of time indeed. Let's hope we will manage to eliminate Mafia.
VOTE: bugspray

Out of all the votes on bugspray, this is my least favorite because it feels overly self conscious.

heeeeey lmao VOTE: AliceK. why do you think mini pointed out the deadline being long Alice?

I like this vote.

what are your thoughts on 15

I saw this post caught people's attention but it's actually one of the most towny things I've seen bugspray do so I think bugspray is probably town.

To be clear that replace was 100% nai and had nothing to do with this game, pretty sure

Heeyyy clidd !

I don't understand why you chose to say this. I'd ask what you are referencing but if it is against game rules, don't answer.

By the way, I hope you guys have noticed my predecessor's evidently town frustration.

I wouldn't mind getting some town points.

I think clidd is scummier then everyone else that I previously had problems with. This doesn't feel like something he would say.

mini you're so towny lmao. can you get a better pfp bc your current one is pretty maf which doesn't fit. it sounds like clidd repped in thinking art was town so uh, i'm gonna sheep his uninformed read before he repped in and figure he's town. easy.

I take back my townread on this slot for the vote. This conclusion is very strange. Artemia had three posts and I can't even remember what she said in either of the three. Clidd/Gretchen makes a lot of sense given that.

loves your eyes. so easy to lose myself in them...

Posts like this make me think Gretchen is even more scummy

Amelie's gonna come in here like "wtf is this shit that I signed up for"

Who are you? I am not happy with the amount of useless posts I see in this game.

Town: bugspray
Null: Entrapta, Minimegabyte
Scum: Clidd, Gretchen, AliceK

Scumgame:

Spoiler:

Vote count 1.01

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-01-03 15:00:00).

execution

Not_Mafia [2]:

Not_Mafia, Raya36

RedFlavor [1]:

DkKoba

Not Voting [6]:

clidd, Horsewoman, Ahsoka, volxen, RedFlavor, Radja

game state

Doom Counter

is currently at

zero

.
~ With

3

Mafia alive, the Town will be endgamed once they are brought down to

3

members.

Previously published lists:
~ none

mod notes

~ everyone has confirmed!

WAIT THERES 3 MAFIA???

#townslip gang

Hol up so mafia cant kill?

This felt really fake and I am concerned with other people's reactions to it because none of them looked even slightly surprised.

raya if u pocket me rn i promise not to push u today

Consider yourself pocketed

This interaction also feels fake. I'm considering scum theatre as a possibility here.

Ok I bleieve your townslip

I hate this but it does feel more like a confused townie than scum theatre.

who you choose to be friends with says a lot abt u.

motivation for this game coincidentally just dropped 90%.

lowkey can i just policy ur slot lmfao

I'm not sure entirely what this is about but I find this particularly rude.

Maybe other people just read the set-ups they're playing

Interesting. I agree with Not Mafia here. In my last game with him, I couldn't remember a single thing he said that I agreed with.

Hullo! Hope you're all having a great christmas.

It turns out that DKkoba's theory was wrong and redflavor's opened came from town. I liked the theory, I think it's towny that dk thought this long and hard about it, and part of me was just curious enough to know so I decided to replace in when the chance appeared.

This feels show-y. I took a brief glance at the game before I replaced in and was also curious what alignment Radja was but I wasn't planning to say it. This can go in my null for now.

I had a hard scumread on DK in our first game together, but after a while I learned that he plays

like that

in both alignments. Nothing he said in this game, so far, is ai in my opinion.

Please pay attention to pronouns.
What do you mean by "they play like that in both alignments"?
Specifically, what is "that"

Many of Gimli's reads in relation to DK seem like things that I could manufacture as scum to push someone, but I still believe that there is a scenario where he is not used to DK and, by default, interpreted his entire line of action as too weird to be town. I'm waiting to see which way my impression on him will go.

I agree with Gimli on Dkkoba.

last post of the day is a retraction of that ahsoka townlean after much consideration.

in fact I think her entrances in the thread are very bad with the flow of everything and point to scum.

will develop on this read tomorrow.

VOTE: ahsoka

I dislike the timing of this. It is right after clidd says Ashoka isn't obvtowning.

Reads look like this right now:

Town: Redflavor, Not Mafia
Null: Clidd, Gimli
Scum: Dkkoba, Raya36

Gimli and Ashoka's avatars are very similar and I apologize in advance if I start mixing them up.

DK is the type of person who is easily misunderstood if you don't like their post flow, and is a very sensitive slot in terms of what can be considered AI or not. I would say that none of their posts so far have given me the impression of "this is town!DK" or "this is scum!DK", which is why I am warning you (assuming you are town, of course ) to keep an open mind towards them.

What is ai for them then?

gimli basically is approaching my slot in the worst faith possible, and anyone who is skeptical of me = towny.

thats how u can sum up their reading process.

this isnt how town approaches reads.
this is how scum discredits.


as soon as clidd pointed out that this is NAI for me > pivoted off.

this implies clidd is not aligned with gimli(like 50% sure, but gun to head would bet on not teammates rn)

clidd, as someone who plays at tables with myself in every game I play, I know that that is exactly what scum does in relation to my slot very often when they do not know me. Those that know me will more often attempt to pocket me as that's my weakness, or something in between if they're especially smart(pooky from coalition a few months ago comes to mind).

im a bit of a self aware player. I know what's scummy. I know whats towny. I know whats NAI. If you think you have caught me being scummy it better be because my reads are horseshit, not some NAI garbage like a townslip. Can I fake them? Yeah. But the reason I do is because i genuinely make them regularly as town(and sometimes i fake them as town too). Basically, even if I were scum here, I would have posted nearly the same exact thing. But it could have been slightly different depending on partners. If you really care about sorting me i have games where I show that lines like this are NAI, just read my history lmfao. I won't ever push meta that says im outside my scumrange, but I will push meta that what you're pushing is fully NAI.


anyways self meta over -

gimli have you considered its RVS and that people who know eachother and have played with eachother are liklier to have implicit bias towards eachother? I tend to push people early who annoy me or who i dislike. It's easier and more natural for me. I don't tunnel them forever unless I genuinely scumread them. This is probably also true of raya wrt the lighter tone towards me - we've played together and i've played in a game she's modded. We're chill and don't wanna go at eachothers throats like that.

I will say the ashoka vote isn't bad, that entrance is pretty flimsy. I'd rather figure out if this is just playstyle > scum being unsure and playing aloof. but lets play with it VOTE: ashoka

You say Gimli is approaching in terrible faith but then vote the person Gimli is voting. Why is that?
If I remembered correctly, Gimli is the one with the entrance I found show-y and Ashoka is the one that I can't remember anything about but both have similar avatars.

Radja is obvscum

I would like an explanation on this.

It reflects me as malicious, but not explicitly. It is a personal feeling.

I already made some posts of mech stuff (as scum) and even though it should be seen naturally as nai, I noticed that some players seemed to trust me more.

Here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11811488

Not saying it is scummy, but in the context of Volxen, who is a very competent player as scum, it gave me a shiver.

I remember other example too about I correctly scumreading scum with the same feeling, but I need to take a look to see if I can find the game.

I have never seen someone make a mech post likely due to me not playing any complicated games like this one but I don't see how it would make anyone look more towny.

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

This is really a stretch. My scumread here stands.

I don't know Volxen but I'll keep this in mind. That was a long explanation to say that's not who you'd push as scum. Self-meta like that isn't something I read into much. For all I know the reason you're potentially setting up a push on volxen instead of the other options you gave is because the other options include your partners.

Once again, what is this? I hate nearly every post she makes.

People play expecting town to have reads, but a townie shouldn't have strong reads at this point in the game. I will converse as I see fit, and these conversations will look good to look at in hindsight, which is why I converse.

I have given my thoughts on the stuff that stood out the most.

you're lockscum

I don't have a specific opinion on any one of Ashoka's posts but I definitely do not find them scummy.

I don't know Gimli, but I know you and Kkoba, so let's fight. Shall we?

I believe this push on me is fabricated. I believe there are town on my wagon currently, as I specifically do not think Gimli and Dkkoba are both scum voting me.

Clidd can be scum because they hard misrepped me right when momentum on me could have gone either way. They can be impatient town. Either way, this should end up amusing.

This I hate very much for how defensive it is. I am considering moving this down to scum read.

pedit: what

Off this alone, clidd is now my top townread.

oh hi flavor leaf

Who is that?

oh hi flavor leaf

ow about you let other people decide if that is a townslip? also fair to note DK was annoying my slot cause redflavor had like a small hint of being mechanically aware, and now they're looking like they don't know anything at all about the game they're playing. so how does dkkoba know there's a doomcounter and they don't know there's 3 mafia?

DK can correct me if I am wrong, but I interpreted their reasoning behind their early Red scumread as that, if Red rolled scum the doom counter would be fresher in his mind since it’s mentioned in the scum role PM, whereas the DC is not mentioned in the town role PM. I don’t think it’s a great reason to be scumreading your slot, but I believe that is where DK is coming from regarding the scumread of Red’s opener.

I don’t think it’s really far-fetched that town!DK could have been aware of the DC early on but glossed over the fact that there are three scum vs two scum. DK might have simply focused on the DC part of the setup information and overlooked the number of town vs scum if they were reading the setup primarily to learn about the DC mechanic.

The alternative explanation is that DK is scum and faked all of these “mistakes” by pretending to think that there were only two scum, and that scum could also nightkill. I don’t think this is as likely because DK’s progression that started with incorrect analysis (2 scum and nightkills) and ended with them realizing their mistakes seemed genuine to me.

Also, if you look back at the early interactions between Red and DK at the very beginning of the game (5, 6, 7), DK’s posts where they called Red’s opener scummy and said it was a somewhat serious vote came 2 minutes after Red’s “hardclaim DC” opener. Scum!DK couldn’t have possibly pre-planned that opener, unless they are scum with your slot. And if you are town and DK is scum, I don’t know that DK would be able to come up with that fake reasoning to scumread Red over his opener that quickly. Granted, DK only initially said that Red’s opener was scummy without explaining why, but they knew they would have to eventually explain why (and DK did as soon as Red replaced out), so I think that regardless of DK’s alignment they knew what the explanation of the scumread was going to be at the time that they called Red’s opener scummy. I think it’s more likely to be a genuine thought process coming from town!DK rather than a fake thought process coming from scum!DK, especially when the short time lapse is taken into account.

I'm going to have to ask you to explain exactly where you stand because this post is not faring well with my brain after an entire day of work.

volxen im feeling that vibe u fit into a very similar archaetype of player like I do

Volxen is a townread because Dkkoba posted this.

just so you won't think I'm picking on you, I just found all your posting to be scum indicative as I was catching up. I could be wrong of course.

There were a few instances where I had to get my glasses and make sure I was reading correctly but I disagree that all of it was bad.

VOTE: horsewoman come play

I townread this.

Radja is still obvscum

Dropped to scum read until I get an explanation for this.

So you don't have any strong read that you like to talk and that's ok because it's page 6 and I'm the villain for wanting to force something that theoretically you would not be able to deliver bc you're town and town don't have real reads early game. Is that it?

I don't like clidd twisting this to make it sound like he was being targeted. I never interpreted anything Ahsoka said as calling him a villain or even sussing him.
I'm going to move over here VOTE: clidd

pedit: I feel like a villain by the tone you approached the subject, but don't worry.

The tone felt fine to me too. Maybe just because it wasn't directed at me but I don't see how it made him feel like a villain.

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

I usually push players who are vocally weaker compared to me as scum, and Volxen doesn't fit that criteria.

Unless I have a specific context for pushing a player that is vocally difficult to eliminate (as I did on partition with ABR)

After our last game together -- where we were both town and I incorrectly scumread you early on in the game because I was suspicious of your "easy" townread on me -- I think it's plausible that scum!you would be aggressive towards my slot and push me in the beginning. You know I'm skeptical of people who townread me if I can't follow their reasoning. So if anything, I would expect scum!you to err on the side of being too aggressive towards my slot (rather than whiteknight me), at least initially, because you could always pull back later and have your read of me "evolve" into a townread if I started to become more widely townread.

I don't know if scum!you would necessarily deathtunnel me, but I am convinced after our last game together that scum!you would be very cautious with things like the timing of when you might fake a townread on me and your fake reasons for doing so, because you know that I would call you out on it if I felt that your reasons for townreading me were not genuine.

So I don't buy this narrative at all that scum!you would always start off by pushing the less vocal slots.

Then this further supports my point earlier that clidd might be setting up a push.

I hate Raya's posting way too much. Every post looks so scummy. This is my top scum read.

An example of this type of impression is this post (

town!volxen

):

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12060913

I can feel it when Volxen presents a line of reasoning that I look at and think ''gee, this analysis is super towny, I think I would think the same if we switch places''.

Unlike this, for example (

scum!volxen

):

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11618440

Where I can smell superficiality 1 km away.

It seems to me that you were the opposite alignment both times. If that is true, I am hesitant to believe this analysis.

But hopefully, we are in a reality where everything is flowing as I expected and my reads on the slots are going well.

This sounds a little self conscious.

regardless of clidd's alignment, raya is my first locktown

Why?

regardless of clidd's alignment, raya is my first locktown

I cc

Why?

(Mixed up who replaced into which slot)

I feel like this comes from town more than scum. I'm going to lift this to null.

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

Is there a difference?

Hullo! I wish you all a great sunday ahead.

I'm not really following what Raya and clidd are arguing about.

Gimli's "regardless of clidd's alignment, Raya is locktown" seems really weird to me. Why would a clidd flip not make you reconsider your read?

Maybe if you understood their argument you'd understand why I'm so hard in leaning raya town. It does appear to me that raya, volxen and clidd are playing something of a game of their own, with all that combined meta and wits between the 3 of them. Raya caught clidd being too hasty in townreading volxen for something volxen did that isn't supposed to be read as towny, and I think the push in that direction was too nuanced to ever come from scum. Even if clidd is town, that doesn't diminish the towniness in raya's thought process.

Speaking of which, I was a little uneasy with clidd's strong TR of me, because my TR of clidd was weaking at that point and I think he noticed it (given I was open about strong townreading raya), and I felt that maybe clidd decided to try to maintain himself on my good side by pocketing me. I'm not sure my posts were towny enough to be townread that strongly.

I absolutely hated the push on clidd. It looked very slimy. I don't think past experience with a player justifies nasty pushes like that.

Ahsoka seems like a bit of an oddball type of player, and as an oddball myself I sympathize with how hard it is sometimes to make yourself understood. That is to say I might have been too hasty in identifying the oddity of her posting as scummy, and a post such as this appears to have layers of genuine solvey thought processes. It's not a strong read but I've been liking the way she responded to all the pressure.

This switched too fast but I still think it's a towny thought process. I think I'm going to officially move Gimli up to a townread.

did a re-read on the entire thing.

clidd is a stronger townlean now than before the re-read. I think what bothers me the most about him is townreading volxen based off nothing, then trying to act smart about it. I'm also townreading ahsoka now. I think the way she developed her posting in thread was very natural and the way she responded to pressure was good. it's not much but I gotta work with this townpool for now <raya, ahsoka, clidd>.

if I squint real hard, I can see something towny about radja. NM did nothing either way.

that leaves me with volxen, dkkoba and horsewoman. volxen's wall defending dkkoba's tripping over themselves at the beginning of d1 and then dkkoba going 'i feel naked uwu' and then defending volxen when no one was pushing him are all suspicious to me. + no one pushed horsewoman yet, someone who was just here to complain about a game having 6 pages 36 hours into it. if she was town there'd be a wagon already.

Volxen was dropped to a null once my scum read on dkkoba faded out.
I agree with the clidd townread.
Ahsoka is a null for me for now. I've wavered in between townread and null for them so I think the townread is reasonable.
Raya I disagree with entirely. She hasn't posted a single post that I haven't felt was extremely scummy.

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

new user posts in thread for first time. absolutely shocking. i should have just used quantum time travel to post in a thread before having posted in it for the first time.

Like come on man, bring the game into the game, bring your paranoid crap into the admins DMs not here.

This level of anger and frustration doesn't feel fake. I'm going to call it town.

I mean obviously this is forced and ridiculous (doing actual game-related catchup now)

This can be my new top townread.

This, however, is a relatively lazy read from Gimli. Just finished a game with him (my first game onsite so don't expect any other meta from me) where he was scum and he was universally townread and really competent. So he's someone I want to have my eye on throughout this one.

I'm honestly unsure what I think of Gimli currently. His entrance made me think scum but after that mostly everything was null or townread material. I can't remember most of his posts also. I can only think of off the top of my head one readslist that I agreed with except for the Raya read.

Okay this reads list is so bad I'm joining this wagon

VOTE: Radja.

I'm caught up, it was super easy and fast because most of the 12 pages was dkkoba spewing nonsense. Although I don't mind making short multiposts, I think posting as much as koba is is kind of anti-town (at least on mafiascum, where games are soooooooo slow), so I would advise koba to cut that aspect out of his playstyle/this game.

Gimli's playing pretty differently than he did in our game together. And by that I mean worse. I think paradoxically that makes him more likely to be town here? He's producing less reads and less analysis but that might be because he's only producing genuine reads/analysis. Want to see more from him. Koba has made a lot of posts I disagree with and posts like 223 really rub me the wrong way. Radja's reads list is so atrocious I don't think it can come from anyone trying to solve/read the game. I'm kind of biased against koba because he's accused me (without evidence) of being an alt of a guy who was apparently banned for sexual harassment, and that's a really fucking uncool thing to do. So I've got personal animus there. Post 217 from clidd I really dislike, the thought process of 'I agree with him so he's town' is itself, really artificial. I liked ahsoka's posting a reasonable amount.

Now I'm having problems with this readslist.
Clidd is solid town. Occasionally I question it but overall, I'm pretty sure he's just town.
Gimli and Dkkoba are still nulls. I dont think I'm willing to give either a townread thinking back on that.
I think I was too quick to townread this and am dropping it to null now.

Radja/horsewoman/Gimli

Radja/horsewoman/Gimli

the way this is my exact GtH solve rn

This sort of interaction is the sort I'd usually say wouldn't be between two scum but I think it has a high chance of being so here. That's because the setup of 3 scum out of 9 heavily incentivizes the scum to buddy up and stick together, because if all 3 are going the same way they only need 2 town to join them. So basically I'm saying that bussing is incredibly unlikely and scum overtly allying is much more possible.

I don't think they are scum together.

I'm saying that close buddying up in this game is more likely to be scummy in this game than other games. You and N_M have closely buddied up, which in the context of this game, is scummy behaviour. Please don't immaturely attempt to own me.

Nevermind. I think this has to be town. Back to town reads.

Town: Clidd, Horsewoman
Null: Ahsoka, Gimli, Dkkoba, V-something
Scum: Raya, Not_Mafia

I'm halfway caught up with a full set of reads and a decent amount of confidence! This is it for tonight and I'll be back to read the rest tomorrow.

She had a very similar format to her scumgame until I started mentioning it (which was when she started making wallposts) and differentiate her play from that game.

[clidd]

I mean, yeah, she showed some effort and tried to protect Dgb, but each wallpost reflects me in a strange way and her opinions, although seem pro-town on the surface, are difficult to imagine as coming from a town mentality, in the sense that her intentions do not seem transparent to me (almost as if she had some other hidden goal).