Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

Desperado · Post Post #701 (isolation #0) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:16 pm

Spoiler: Rach is scum

Spoiler: MuffinMan is town

In post 43, zMuffinMan wrote:
Vote: TiphaineDeath

In post 98, zMuffinMan wrote:
tiphaine wrote:I want zmuffin to answer this, not ven, what's scummy about my post?
If by "scummy", you mean "something that scum does", then I think your post is scummy because it came from you.

This should be fairly straight-forward.

If you're asking how I know you're scum from this, then it comes down to two reasons. The first is that I see no town reason to vent your frustration here, especially since his play as a PGO is valid and makes sense, and I see every reason why you as scum would think that making a big deal out of it would possibly make you seem more town because you didn't consider that it was a good move for a town PGO to make. The second is my personal belief that the way in which you said what you said was awful and fake.

Also, since that post, I don't believe you have no better place to put your vote than where it currently is for RVS reasons... You could have even voted me, and at least pretended to apply some pressure to me, but you didn't. So yep, you're scum and you need to die. This part is no longer valid as of #93, but you're still scum.

More votes on TD please. TY.

In post 505, zMuffinMan wrote:People I'm not lynching today: venmar, notscience, mac, sound of silence
People maybe town but not completely sure: beautyandthebeast, ghostlin, nickthename, trustfund

If mastin is town, this is the first game i've seen him read me incorrectly from my initial posting. but I don't really think he's town atm so that doesn't particularly matter to me.
BRO is probably scum, there was a wall somewhere on like p8 that made me think this. The next post about scum on the TD wagon and no effort to do anything about it pretty much solidified this.

The speed with which the TD wagon built up is
not
a sign that he's town, or even likely town. It's null at best, and I'm sure as fuck not going to discount his play just because his wagon built up quickly. Off the top of my head, Ghostlin should remember the shit position town got put in when the whole town thought this exact same thing on D1 of Cyclic x02 - it made for a very easy scum win. The point being; judge his play, and the play of the people voting him, not the fucking speed of the wagon.

I think someone asked me a question some pages back about why I voted TD before he answered my question. The answer is, "why the fuck not?" It was a better place to put my vote than where it currently was for RVS reasons, and I pretty much told you why I voted TD in my next post anyway, so this kind of seems like a dumb question.

I'm skimming a lot of these posts, so if I missed any questions, meh. I might go back and read this thread closely when I have time and see what else I can find in the first 20 pages, but these are my basic thoughts on the game so far.

In post 507, zMuffinMan wrote:I agree. AtE isn't a reason to lynch someone over. But I think the way in which he handled the votes was bad, and I think if he were town, he'd at least try to show that he's town rather than whine and AtE.

I also still hold that his initial post about the PGO looked really, really fake, for reasons that have been listed by several posters.

Point me to posts that gave you scum reads on nickthename, rachmarie and nhammen.

In post 508, zMuffinMan wrote:I would also like to note that BRO still isn't voting anyone, and after his claim about scum on the TD wagon, I at least think he would try get some momentum going on a scum read of his if he were actually town.

If the TD wagon dies, I'll move to BRO.

Muffin's stance on TD, and the consistency of his Bro scumhunt, are both town motivated. Unlike Venmar's useless TD tunnel, Muffin's intentions are transparent and he lays his thought process out willfully.

In post 603, zMuffinMan wrote:I have decided that all my reads are shit and I need to start over.

I'll give the reasoning behind my current reads on Mac and TFL before I do, but they may change when I properly read the game.

I've gone really, really wrong somewhere. I have the entire early TD wagon as town (or likely town). Even if TD is scum, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I need to reevaluate things.

This post reads extremely genuine and scum have no reason to express this much self-doubt.

Spoiler: Mac is scum

Contrast Muffin's push with Mac's. Whereas muffin consistently expressed his thought processes and gave TD content to react to, Mac was needlessly antagonistic.

In post 119, Mac wrote:what part of venmar's claim made you rage TD cos I really can't see much wrong with what he did?

In post 129, Mac wrote:
In post 121, TiphaineDeath wrote:I feel that claiming PGO is bad as a pgo, the same way claiming bomb is bad even if you know there is a vig in the game.

It's tantamount to saying "I don't think I can play my role well enough to make it usefull so i'm going to go ahead and be a vanilla townie that needs to be lynched before lylo." You take a role that can be a great errr good thing, to the town, and make it a detriment. I know that it can be a horrible detriment to the town if played badly, but that's not a fucking excuse. When you're given a role, you play that role to your win condition.

It just.... it bugs me...
so what would you have done if you were given PGO?

In post 138, Mac wrote:you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.

In post 150, Mac wrote:we are most certainly not done with it.

stop running away.

In post 153, Mac wrote:pretty sure you are running away.

now answer the questions asked at you or be lynched. it's simple.

What kind of response is he looking to get here? He's not interested in determing TD's alignment, he's just kicking the dog while it's down.

Mac's TD push her is very reminiscent of Mac's push on monkeyman as scum in WWE mafia--it begins in #2056 and extends to #2108

In post 164, Mac wrote:
In post 156, TiphaineDeath wrote:Hold the motherfucking phone, hey mac, who asked me questions?

In post 138, Mac wrote:you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.
those are questions.

They really aren't. "You know there is nothin wrong with what Venmar did?" is not a question, it is a declaration of superiority. You might as well say "I'm right and you're wrong, why are you so stupid?"

In post 168, Mac wrote:
In post 166, TiphaineDeath wrote:Neither of those are questions, and you are stupid to think so. Putting a question mark on the end of something doesn't make it a question.

Fail slip dodge is fail. VOTE: Mac. Hey guys, I found an overeager scum, want to help me lynch it?

is this really fucking happening?

In post 176, Mac wrote:are you going to do anything other than cry in the corner and call everyone stupid?

Aren't you doing the same thing? What else is "is this really fucking happening?" supposed to mean other than "How stupid are you to vote me?"

In post 208, Mac wrote:
In post 200, TiphaineDeath wrote:It's not a mother fucking policy lynch, I didn't push a lynch on venmar, I never voted venmar, and I hate policy lynches. Remove-head-from-rectum-conf-town.
and yet you said you were "heavily tempted" to vote Venmar earlier

In post 217, Mac wrote:
In post 210, nickthename wrote:
In post 38, TiphaineDeath wrote:I. Don't. Even. All you stupid fuckers need to stop PGO claiming, either it's a bad gambit, or you are one in which case you should be playing in such a way that scum will target you and not town to get free kills instead of dumbassing. Heavily tempted to vote venmar here....
You didn't vote him, but you made this little half-step push thing, which is worse in my book.
bingo. it looks alot like you were flirting with the idea but waiting for someone else to take the initiative, TD.

In post 224, Mac wrote:
In post 218, nickthename wrote:
In post 217, Mac wrote:
In post 210, nickthename wrote:
In post 38, TiphaineDeath wrote:I. Don't. Even. All you stupid fuckers need to stop PGO claiming, either it's a bad gambit, or you are one in which case you should be playing in such a way that scum will target you and not town to get free kills instead of dumbassing. Heavily tempted to vote venmar here....
You didn't vote him, but you made this little half-step push thing, which is worse in my book.
bingo. it looks alot like you were flirting with the idea but waiting for someone else to take the initiative, TD.
Except that's not what happened.

VOTE: Mac
what?

I can almost see Mac's neck whiplashing here. He thinks he's gotten someone to buy in to his TD misrep and he doesn't even know what to say when he realizes he misread the situation.

Spoiler: BeautyAndTheBeast is town

Majiffy consistently pushing the game forward and hunting scum:

In post 82, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:Someone talk to me, I'm bored.

In post 233, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:UNVOTE: TD
Got what I needed, thanks!
In post 175, borkjerfkin wrote:[8] TiphaineDeath (Venmar, zMuffinMan, nickthename, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mac, Ghostlin, Faster Than Light, Trust Fund)
+nhammen

For later.

---

199 by TF is scummy.

---

In post 219, RachMarie wrote:the fact we have a wagon build up this fast this early before everyone has even posted kinda sets up my scumdar a tad.
Bingo.

---

Note to self: read later when I feel like reading poorly written garbage.

In post 275, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
Spoiler: The TD Wagon
In post 40, Venmar wrote:Wow.

Vote: TiphaineDeath

Scum caught, vote away!

GO BE FREE MY LITTLE BIRDS, LYNCH HIM

We are not in RVS anymore, this is a serious vote, please lynch.

In post 43, zMuffinMan wrote:
Vote: TiphaineDeath
*Note: In 41, he asks TD a question. TD does not have time to answer before this vote, as 42 was Venmar yelling to kill it with fire.

In post 102, nickthename wrote:
In post 93, TiphaineDeath wrote:But bnb, why you no like me? </3. I didn't subtle push, I raged, there's a difference.
VOTE: ftl
What even is this shit?
VOTE: Tiphaine
*Note: Pushing Venmar until wagon was visibly not gaining traction. Hopped on counterwagon with a weak vote.

In post 138, Mac wrote:you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.
*Note: This is probably definitely a town vote.

In post 143, Ghostlin wrote:3) TD is playing like a mule on crack, which seems to indicate he wants us to distract from the Ven vote by acting like someone gave him drugs. His idea of Ven not claiming seems dissonant to the Town wincon. Also, I'm getting a hate-on for notscience.

Vote: TD
*Note: Also pretty townie.

In post 171, Trust Fund wrote:Apparently so?
Sorry Colin, I'm voting anyways.
VOTE: TD
~Sasha

In post 144, Faster Than Light wrote:I don't really buy TD's backing off with "I am tired", either. Feels like a lazy, early-game deflection.
Of course, I don't like Venmar's response to my pressure either, but like you and I said, we shouldn't judge on a claim, but on play throughout the game.

Vote: TD

-V

Muffin
, why didn't you wait for TD to answer your question before reasonlessly hopping the wagon?

I want
Nick
to explain 102 and what, exactly, his problem was with the post that merited a vote.

FTL
please explain where the reaction test in 99 was initiated, where the reaction was, and what the reaction told you. Please use
quotes.

Cabd
, what was going through your mind when you voted TD in 171? Why were you thinking he was scum? Why didn't you elaborate when you voted him? Tell me about the conversation you were having with Syryana that you felt the need to apologize for placing the vote. Did Syryana read TD as town?

FTL
: Where was Venmar's reaction that you didn't like? Also I feel like you're misrepping TD's position by saying that he's using "I am tired" to back off.

In post 189, nhammen wrote:Current scum candidates: FTL, TD (for reasons described by 81 and 91)
Where are these reasons? I didn't see them. You also did not quote any posts numbered 81 or 91 in this post. Please elaborate immediately.

In post 298, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 291, Trust Fund wrote:I mean, it could be town lashout, but I don't feel it's as likely to be town-lash as scum-lash; and either way, heaping on pressure means more emotions, which means an easier read.
So you received an emotional response, which looked scum, why?
And if you received an emotional response already, what good did you feel the vote would do,
only
in regards to pressure?

In post 313, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 302, Trust Fund wrote:
In post 298, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 291, Trust Fund wrote:I mean, it could be town lashout, but I don't feel it's as likely to be town-lash as scum-lash; and either way, heaping on pressure means more emotions, which means an easier read.
So you received an emotional response, which looked scum, why?
And if you received an emotional response already, what good did you feel the vote would do,
only
in regards to pressure?
It looks scum because as town, merely lashing out at your wagon leaders is not really the best play. Town-TD; I feel like, would have looked to explain his reasoning instead of merely OMGUS voting.
So you expected a rational, optimal reactive play from an irrational, emotional situation?

Tell me more.

In post 326, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:Ok let me explain this to you. When you're trying to garner an emotional reaction from someone; YOU WANT AN EMOTIONAL REACTION.

Mind you - either alignment can HAVE an emotional reaction; it's HOW they react that matters.

But if you push someone for an emotional reaction and they've got faces calm as a Hindu cow, that means that IF AND ONLY IF YOU ARE CERTAIN THEY ARE FEELING PRESSURE: They're probably scum.

Town has no reason to avoid flipping out, at least not on a primal/reactionary/emotional level. They won't think to themselves "oh god, I had better not flip out!", they just FLIP OUT.

SCUM, on the other hand, will sit back and try to calm themselves down so they don't react negatively. THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE. Thus a LACK of a reaction is a SCUM reaction. You're not looking for CALM townies. You're looking for CALM SCUM.

In post 344, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 335, notscience wrote:So

If scum are supposed to act calm

Does that mean anyone not throwing a shitstorm is scum?
If the intention is to cause a shitstorm, yes.

In post 338, Venmar wrote:- The fact you think scum don't flip out or rage or have more than just calm reactions proves to me I don't think you realize what you're talking about
Hi, are you reading?
In post 326, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote: Mind you - either alignment can HAVE an emotional reaction; it's HOW they react that matters.
Apparently not. Fuck off, Venmar, I'm working.

Mollie consistently moving the game forward and triangulating among her town reads:

In post 260, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 69, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:Let me read Rach. I think the only time I've ever read her wrong was when I was scum.
wtf both you and nacho read her wrong in the last game. mebbe you should leave rach to someone who has never mislynched her and has actually identified her scum.

@varsoon

would it be too much to ask if you would change your avvie to where it doesn't move? it keeps catching my peripheral and it makes my eyes hurt

In post 264, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 78, Sound of Silence wrote:
In post 66, RachMarie wrote:I do realize of course that the Mollie head and the fery head are long time friends from another site, but want to be sure it is not being used as a cover for buddying.
If mollie and I figure out that each other are town then we will at turns buddy the hell out of each other and suffer from intense paranoia. It will be fun for all.

Hi Majiffy.

If I werer PGO I'd play it similarly to what Venmar is doing.

I agree that Tiphaine's reaction wasn't cool. Also think that Varsoon and MS both seem off. Nachopappa (whom I will call Bert for the most part) isn't looking very town to me atm. But, I gather he usually doesn't when he's town.
almost want to call you town for this post

In post 281, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 138, Mac wrote:you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.
you are scum aren't you

not liking that varsoon thing or muffin thing either

liking td, ns, venny almost wanna put silence in there too

and if you guys do not get off of td's dick I am gonna get pissed

@ venny

I love you but you are being retarded. stahp it

In post 312, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 223, Faster Than Light wrote:@Nhammen: I don't like that when I fucking explain why I read something as null, everyone throws their hats in the air and goes WAFFLES
I don't like that when I play straight-forward town, everyone's like "VARSOON SO SCUM" because I did it in like one other game somewhere.
It's not a -reaction test- "defense" when I outright GOT VENMAR TO REPLY IN A GENUINE WAY THAT LET ME READ HIM BETTER. I'm milking the interaction between him and TD for info, something other players aren't. Please note that Notscience and NachoPappa haven't engaged too much on either side and half of the player list hasn't even fucking posted a decent contribution.
IF I THINK OF SOMETHING TO WRITE AFTER MY POST, I WILL WRITE IT. THREADS WILL BE SPAMMED AT A SPEED FASTER THAN LIGHT.
As far as the reason why I thought that nickthename was voting him without saying so--I thought it was a soft counter-claim until Nick explained his vote, which made me less assured of my own. Also, I got the reaction I wanted out of Venmar, which was essentially the same waffle-accusation bullshit I'm getting from you. Engage my posts, rather than writing them off, please.

@Trust:
Don't you think it's ironic that you see me as scum, but have a vote on the same guy as me?

If anyone wants to discuss things, I'm here to do so.

@Notscience: Now that you're confirmed town, you need to play the game. I was in Open 512 with Pasche, who was Innocent Child and he gave up playing after his IC reveal. Now you don't have to convince us that you're town, so please actually contribute to the thread and catch scum. What's the worst that can happen, they waste an NK on you?

-V
you are not this dumb

In post 334, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 261, Mac wrote:
In post 251, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 66, RachMarie wrote:Want to take a look at the interplay tween B n B and SoS

I do realize of course that the Mollie head and the fery head are long time friends from another site, but want to be sure it is not being used as a cover for buddying.
yes cos fery and I would totally fall for that. I am so glad we have you to help sort that out.

I can't tell if this bugs me or not
does rach normally do this?

i dont recall it last game
she will make odd comments which make her look incredibly scummy but to me it looked like she was trying to find busywork. mine and fery's interactions are a magnet for scum when we are both town if you are town it is best to just leave us alone and do our thing. we are rarely wrong about each other and we certainly wouldn't be so dumb as to fall for some buddying trick

In post 397, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 329, nickthename wrote:Yall hydras need to sign ur shit.
no

also I am meaner in forum mafia than skype mafia

you will figure out how to tell us apart

so assuming that you gained a shred of sanity and unstuck yourself from td what else do you see? who else sticks out?

In post 401, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 349, notscience wrote:Ah

PM and Majiffy are posting at the same time

Now I get it

So, here's a question for the two of you.

What do you think of the reactions to my claiming?
they seemed mostly townish I think

what do
you
think?

also I didn't need to have mod tell me you were town

In post 414, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 399, Trust Fund wrote:
In post 398, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:that was me and why are you asking me this dumb question
You know me. I like dumb questions. I also am weirded out by people townreading me all of a sudden.

Hey mollie, am I wrong about TD? Cuz like, if both you and ffery think i'm wrong, I probably am, 'cuz i'm usually shit day one.
I think so, yes. you also know I usually get my reads fast and early so I am not sure why you are worried. so does fery

I am so glad we are playing together again

@ td

I think you are barking up the wrong tree about mac. he has shot to the top of my town list.

I feel like you and venny's bodies have been taken over by aliens or something cos I am barely recognising either one of you

In post 417, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 405, Sound of Silence wrote:mollie what are your thoughts about Mac?
liking him a lot. will probably be working with him. what do you think about venny?

@ ns

I think a pgo hits everyone who targets them if I am not mistaken.

In post 409, RachMarie wrote:well this game will be.... interesting (in the sense of the old Chinese curse May your life be interesting that is).....

Whether TD is scum or town I am not sure on, but I am leaning town cause that wagon hell Nacho has not even posted yet..... And a few others as well. 8 of 11 votes? Cmon guys n gals we need to examine those on his wagon duh.

No need to get worried Mollie just I am not 100% sold that both your slot and hers are town. Given time will be better at sorting it out. And part of that would be finding out if its just hey we know each other or that you are playing buddy buddy knowing peeps would think it too blatant to be buddying.
As Jiffy and Syr post that will help too
.

Pedit the PGO kills the doc and so does the scum who tries to kill I believe but not positive on that.
wat are you talking about majiffy has been doing most of the posting up until this point.

fery this is what I mean

In post 443, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 441, nickthename wrote:And this is why I hate hydras.
In post 436, pirate mollie wrote:mebbe if you would stop posting in your scum qt you would know this.
What is this supposed to mean?
looks like an fos to me. what do you think?

In post 455, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 449, notscience wrote:I am entirely serious PM
if I take the time to answer this will actually entertain the idea that I might know what I am talking about?

rach was 1 of the first people to tell the difference between majiffy and I mean like 3 posts. majiffy was posting up a storm and I actually told him to stfu in gchat. he has been very clear about his thoughts and whom he suspects. her saying she needs to hear more from him was very bizarre and then she did it again to fery. she is disengaged with everything that is going on in the game when town rach would have stepped in a bit in the td/venny show. lastly, she feels very out of step when usually she doesn't.

gut + meta + timing

she is also slipping and sliding all over the place its like she has been dipped in baby oil or something

In post 465, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 457, nickthename wrote:Actually, this is a perfect opportunity to say this. B&B, I like you guys, but seriously, can you shut up a little bit? You've been spamming pretty hard since the start of this game and It's getting on my nerves. Maybe condense your thoughts a little, wait till you have a few things to say? Thanks.

hi nick hi

let's have a chat.

every single 1 of my posts has content and a reason behind it. I think majiffy's alphabet posting was spammy and I fussed at him for it. he and I are both frequent posters especially on d1. borky probably should have said something in the sign-up thread since a lot of these players were in the last xeno game and that was high volume.

I will post what I want when I want tyvm. you can always put us on your foe list then you won't have to read our posts at all. cos right now I am milking the game for all that it is worth in order to provide the most info for my team. we will probably be nked early and then you won't have to worry about it.

In post 468, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:fery

feryferyferyfery

I find venny's hostility weird.

Both heads bleed town and mollie's prediction that they will likely be nked early is a) likely true and b) town arrogance at its finest.

Spoiler: Aj The Epic is town

Has the best post:content ratio in the game:

In post 247, Aj The Epic wrote:
In post 99, Faster Than Light wrote:Huh. Regardless, got the reaction I was looking for from Venmar, so

Unvote

In post 233, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:UNVOTE: TD
Got what I needed, thanks!
Are we all pretending we have reaction tests going in this game?

So far, the obvious choices for the early scum list are TFL, Nick, and TD deciding to vote for Venmar because of 'stupidity'. That's a copout reason. But I don't like the wagon, especially recently with weak votes from Nick and FTL. In fact, I really think Nick's true bad vote came on his vote on Mac, not TD. 210 and 218 felt like he was trying to pull some bullshit test off and even when he wants to vote Mac, he doesn't explain his reasoning for shit. He is obligated to explain such reasoning because he's suggesting a slip/misrep and therefore needs to bring it to light instead of saying "That's not what happened" when Mac essentially agreed with his original post.

VOTE: Nick

I actually am going to say TD's reactions feel genuine. He stepped bad and is feeling bogged down, which is something I completely understand.

TFL's attack on Nhaman was bad, which was really the first time I noticed him. I don't like MS on my own policy of him reading too fast to be useful, but the worst post from them was made by Varsoon, which surprised me. Off hand, what was Varsoon's allignment in Xenoblade? I didn't ever bother to check back in on the end result (stopped reading short of d4...)

Mollie/Jiffy and other hydras:
Spoiler:
When I sleep, I don't want nightmares about waking up to 70+ pages. Every game I in this category seems to love large post games. I've played Street Racers, Posh, and Xenoblades with the majority here, I know you're capable of posting that much. So you don't have to prove you are capable of 1,000+ pages d1 to prove you can. Got it?

P-edit: And the shit of this begins. Not even going to bother.

In post 258, Aj The Epic wrote:Alright. So it was just a trolly style. Thanks.

Guessing that's Jiffy in 253 (punctuation). So, I just read the game again (when making my last post) and I can tell you that most of the votes looked like this:
Everyone who voted minus Venmar wrote:
TD wrote:Blah blah blah I'm town
Vote:TD

In post 279, Aj The Epic wrote:You know, we've got it, should use it...
In post 255, Faster Than Light wrote:SoS[1] votes BROseidon
TiphaneD[1] votes FTL
MuffinMan[1] votes NachoPappa

Notscience
[1] votes Trust Fund
AJ[1] votes
Notscience

Notscience
[2] votes
Notscience

TRUSTsasha[1] votes NachoPappa
Venmar[1] votes TiphaneD
MuffinMan[2] votes TiphaneD
NickTheName[1] votes Venmar
FTL[2] votes Venmar
NachoPappa[2] votes NachoMamma
TiphaneD[2] votes FTL
FTL unvotes Venmar
NickTheName[2] votes TiphaneD

TiphaneD[3] votes MuffinMan

B&B[1] votes TiphaneD
Mac[1] votes TiphaneD
Ghostlin[1] votes TiphaneD

FTL[3] votes TiphaneD

TiphaneD[4] votes Mac

TrustSasha[2] votes TiphaneD

NickTheName[3] votes Mac

Nhammen[1] votes FTL
B&B unvotes TiphaneD
AJ[2] votes NickTheName
Green for confirmed town (namely NS)
Red for any votes three and over.

Honestly, the only thing I notice is TD seems to flail a lot under pressure. Most of these first seem more random than anything.

In post 341, Aj The Epic wrote:
In post 326, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:Town has no reason to avoid flipping out, at least not on a primal/reactionary/emotional level. They won't think to themselves "oh god, I had better not flip out!", they just FLIP OUT.

SCUM, on the other hand, will sit back and try to calm themselves down so they don't react negatively. THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE. Thus a LACK of a reaction is a SCUM reaction. You're not looking for CALM townies. You're looking for CALM SCUM.
Not really. Someone like me doesn't want to be perceived as a person who completely flips shit all the time. I think it would be better if the majority of arguing in mafia was handled at a cold, anti-personal level but that's just me. I doubt this as a powerful scumtell, but I do use the opposite to find town... (Being genuine AtE vs fake)

In post 509, Aj The Epic wrote:I think he has nick for the same reason I did: His first vote was really bad (onto Venmar) and the one onto Mac wasn't explained immediately. Sure, with Venmar, he's simply wrong on how you play PGO (Venmar is right, you claim negative utility roles immediately... barring Miller which is just a weird role). His vote onto TD was "WTF is this shit", not strong reasoning at all... in fact, never any real reason supplied for this vote but to help a wagon that was just about to kind of die out continue on. I don't really mind his case on Mac AFTER he posts it, I simply think it should've been explained with the vote before letting it fall later down. He proceeds to do something I consider anti-town: His case justified his vote, not his vote justifying his case. Meaning he didn't look for a case until AFTER he decided to vote for Mac.

(And that's because someone wanted this earlier when I couldn't be bothered)

P-edit: Newsflash: TD wagon is dead.

In post 513, Aj The Epic wrote:I never quite understood the TD wagon. This isn't TD's scum game that I saw last game (and proceeded to get lynched for my opinion on it). He's playing completely out of sync with it. He was a subtly more opportunistic than he is here. Seeing as most of the players are returning, I don't quite understand why that wagon ever built up. Hence, I do believe B&B were right with the idea to analyze that wagon... I just wish they'd come with a more solid result. Blades was a short time ago, enough that everyone should be able to do their own meta memory check on TD to recognize that this is a completely different play-style for him.

FTL mine as well be scum. I can spoiler this sentence if need be, Muffin... Varsoons post to Nhm was awful and he's the reasonable one of that hydra.

That's his whole ISO. No post is wasted and he comments on major thread events on his own time, with consistency and conviction.

Vote: RachMarie

Desperado · Post Post #707 (isolation #1) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:34 pm

In post 702, Andrius wrote:Desperado is town.

When I caught up on the four pages that spawned between finishing my reread and putting together those cases your catchup post stood out. Lack of obfuscation + transparent thought process + effort above and beyond = town.

What did you mean "no stahp, it's nhamm?" I rolled scum with him as the IC of my first newbie and his first two posts seemed in line with my experience. I'm disappointed he replaced out because I'm much less confident in my ability to read Mala.

Can you explain mactown, nhamm/malatown, and nickscum to me?

In post 703, thezmon221 wrote:@Despo: Nice to see you today. Thought I'd miss out on playing with you. I like your reads for 4/5 of those people. You can be town for now.

I don't flake or replace unless my idiot partner forces it on my slot (

), I just had to work all day yesterday and it took me a while to catch up on the thread this afternoon.

Desperado · Post Post #708 (isolation #2) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:34 pm

In post 702, Andrius wrote:Desperado is town.

When I caught up on the four pages that spawned between finishing my reread and putting together those cases your catchup post stood out. Lack of obfuscation + transparent thought process + effort above and beyond = town.

What did you mean "no stahp, it's nhamm?" I rolled scum with him as the IC of my first newbie and his first two posts seemed in line with my experience. I'm disappointed he replaced out because I'm much less confident in my ability to read Mala.

Can you explain mactown, nhamm/malatown, and nickscum to me?

In post 703, thezmon221 wrote:@Despo: Nice to see you today. Thought I'd miss out on playing with you. I like your reads for 4/5 of those people. You can be town for now.

I don't flake or replace unless my idiot partner forces it on my slot (

), I just had to work all day yesterday and it took me a while to catch up on the thread this afternoon.

Desperado · Post Post #709 (isolation #3) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:38 pm

In post 705, mastin2 wrote:(my personal read is fairly-decently-town, but again, haven't really played with her much to know for sure).

I'd honestly be surprised if you could come up with two town motivated things from Rach's ISO. She's scum.

Desperado · Post Post #716 (isolation #4) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:54 pm

That's a solid townRach case, if you take all of the points individually. But when you combine them all with the fact that she isn't scumhunting and she isn't using her vote to pressure anyone, the scum-motivated possibilities you provided become much more likely.

Desperado · Post Post #721 (isolation #5) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:05 pm

In post 718, mastin2 wrote:Some specific posts may be a bit concerning, but overall, there's strong town posting present and I really don't think this is scuMac.

Which posts? You flatly said all of my reads were weak, can you talk about the mac read more specifically and how it fits into your read?

Desperado · Post Post #723 (isolation #6) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:08 pm

In post 720, mastin2 wrote:
In post 716, Desperado wrote:That's a solid townRach case, if you take all of the points individually.
Which is
exactly
what
you asked me to do
. You asked for specific town-motivated things; I gave specific town-motivated things.

If you want the overall stance, I still have her as town, in a similar manner to how I'm town. (Granted, this is something specific to me, so if for some idiotic reason you're not townreading me, then I can see why you wouldn't be townreading her. ) Her posts just have that feeling to them. That she's not exactly in the strongest position, but that she's trying to figure things out regardless. Again, I don't have much meta on her, so I don't know if it's possible she can fake it, but I don't see the scum. I see town, working things out weakly but still working things out.

@ your bold: The context matters though. You provided examples of her doing something that is generally town motivated, when the specific circumstances (which you've already alluded to yourself) point to a different conclusion.

And I wouldn't equate your play with her's at all.

Desperado · Post Post #726 (isolation #7) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:12 pm

In post 724, mastin2 wrote:My memory of a scuMac might not be as good as with others, but this. just. doesn't. feel. like. what I remember. to be. scuMac. It feels like his town self.

What do you remember scuMac to be? Do you disagree with the meta I provided?

Desperado · Post Post #771 (isolation #8) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:21 pm

In post 758, BROseidon wrote:Why is consistency town-motivated? Also, in the second quote of his you've posted, what is the town-motivation of stating theory that is wrong (his part about wagon-speed being null is just outright wrong).

Consistency betrays earnestness which I find is difficult for scum to fake. It also makes the progression of his read transparent.

The second question is pretty loaded. What makes wagon speed alignment indicative?

Desperado · Post Post #781 (isolation #9) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:33 pm

mollie can you talk about some specific parts of andrius' post that you didn't like? I'm not seeing the fluff.

Desperado · Post Post #805 (isolation #10) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:58 pm

In post 798, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:@ desp

you mean other than rahegar references, plural penii, pics, "oh this is funny" and all of the other stuff he posted? mebbe I am making it up.

what I know of andy is that he hones in and focuses as town and here he is reacting like how he "thinks" a townie would act. the observations are disconnected and are a cobbled together mash piece of playing to the crowd. his timing is atrocious. the little bit of hunting he provided lacked continuity and it is very surface level, not the type of in-depth thinking that he is capable of. the posts read as shallow when andy is anything but.

But those were all moments within a much larger context. And they are also all still interactions in my view. "Fluff post of the year" is a weird way to say "he posted a few bits of fluff amongst a lot of legitimate analysis."

It sounds like you're reading him as scum because you have high expectations of his town game. That doesn't strike me as a fair accusation. You have anything better?

Desperado · Post Post #815 (isolation #11) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:07 pm

In post 811, Venmar wrote:
In post 810, thezmon221 wrote:More complaining about the fact that the game was going at a high speed.
- Yeah but those read as GENUINE, and ESPECIALLY because he followed through by replacing out.

Are you suggesting that scum couldn't be genuinely unable to keep up and follow through by replacing out?

Desperado · Post Post #816 (isolation #12) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:07 pm

In post 811, Venmar wrote:
In post 810, thezmon221 wrote:More complaining about the fact that the game was going at a high speed.
- Yeah but those read as GENUINE, and ESPECIALLY because he followed through by replacing out.

Are you suggesting that scum couldn't be genuinely unable to keep up and follow through by replacing out?

Desperado · Post Post #823 (isolation #13) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:20 pm

Spoiler: Legitimate analysis in Andrius' wall

Desperado · Post Post #824 (isolation #14) » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:20 pm

Spoiler: Legitimate analysis in Andrius' wall

Desperado · Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:09 am

In post 879, zMuffinMan wrote:I really dislike meta as an argument, but I had a look over that game anyway and see distinct differences in the way Mac approched the push on monkeyman in that game and the way Mac has been playing here. For example, in that game you get confident statements like "today we lynch monkey chaps", "monkey votes please. he is today's lynch", "it's blatantly obvious that you were feigning stupidity" - I could go on and on, but what I'm saying here are there are a lot of statements that reek of confidence in that push. In this game, however, Mac has been more inquisitive, less confident, etc etc. This is all stuff I mentioned earlier in this wall (in my response to nick), but I feel it's even more apparent now that you've linked his scum meta. So uh, yeah.

I acknowledge that there are also similarities between that game and this one, kinda... But they don't point to Mac being scum IMO.

I see what you're saying about the confidence in his push, but I also took his "TD you're running away" comments to be a form of taunting and akin to the examples you quoted here. I think my only other competed game with mac was RW--he and mollie hydra'd a townslot and we had a huge brush up D1, but then they got killed N2. Do you have additional experience with him?

In post 876, Sound of Silence wrote:
In post 771, Desperado wrote:
In post 758, BROseidon wrote:Why is consistency town-motivated? Also, in the second quote of his you've posted, what is the town-motivation of stating theory that is wrong (his part about wagon-speed being null is just outright wrong).
Consistency betrays earnestness which I find is difficult for scum to fake. It also makes the progression of his read transparent.

The second question is pretty loaded. What makes wagon speed alignment indicative?
What kind of consistency are you talking about here, desp?

A good example is Muffin's BRO read. In 505 he mentions that BRO looked scummy for calling out the TD wagon but not following up on his suspicion, in 508 he builds on that suspicion and makes his stance clear by saying he would vote him if the TD wagon stalled, and finally in 879 he continues his scumhunt, but in a more delicate way that shows his 603 ("All my reads are shit and I need to start over") was genuine and not just hot air.

In post 896, RachMarie wrote:how can you be so sure. every game I have been in with innocent child the scum make an effort to kill the innocent child (or in the case of Less Pressure--Innocent children).

I have not given a large list of reads yet because oh duh 36 friggen pages with some peeps not yet talking or not talking much....

On top of that had some modly things to do.

And yeah my knee still hurts.

BTW I will get on this game a lot more after I rest my knee and we take Lucky to the vet today. He has been throwing up a lot and I am worried about him.

yes Z dude is the zmon one I call the other one muffin to keep them straight. Also call notscience Notty so it does not get confused with NS who is my fiance.

Var you and MS really need to get it together more its making extremely difficult to figure out your slot.

more later dudes and dudettes

We need to lynch Rach today. Not only will the entire TD wagon be cleared, but we'll also know that FTL is definitely scum. The nick and mastin wagons need to go away.

Desperado · Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:09 am

In post 879, zMuffinMan wrote:I really dislike meta as an argument, but I had a look over that game anyway and see distinct differences in the way Mac approched the push on monkeyman in that game and the way Mac has been playing here. For example, in that game you get confident statements like "today we lynch monkey chaps", "monkey votes please. he is today's lynch", "it's blatantly obvious that you were feigning stupidity" - I could go on and on, but what I'm saying here are there are a lot of statements that reek of confidence in that push. In this game, however, Mac has been more inquisitive, less confident, etc etc. This is all stuff I mentioned earlier in this wall (in my response to nick), but I feel it's even more apparent now that you've linked his scum meta. So uh, yeah.

I acknowledge that there are also similarities between that game and this one, kinda... But they don't point to Mac being scum IMO.

I see what you're saying about the confidence in his push, but I also took his "TD you're running away" comments to be a form of taunting and akin to the examples you quoted here. I think my only other competed game with mac was RW--he and mollie hydra'd a townslot and we had a huge brush up D1, but then they got killed N2. Do you have additional experience with him?

In post 876, Sound of Silence wrote:
In post 771, Desperado wrote:
In post 758, BROseidon wrote:Why is consistency town-motivated? Also, in the second quote of his you've posted, what is the town-motivation of stating theory that is wrong (his part about wagon-speed being null is just outright wrong).
Consistency betrays earnestness which I find is difficult for scum to fake. It also makes the progression of his read transparent.

The second question is pretty loaded. What makes wagon speed alignment indicative?
What kind of consistency are you talking about here, desp?

A good example is Muffin's BRO read. In 505 he mentions that BRO looked scummy for calling out the TD wagon but not following up on his suspicion, in 508 he builds on that suspicion and makes his stance clear by saying he would vote him if the TD wagon stalled, and finally in 879 he continues his scumhunt, but in a more delicate way that shows his 603 ("All my reads are shit and I need to start over") was genuine and not just hot air.

In post 896, RachMarie wrote:how can you be so sure. every game I have been in with innocent child the scum make an effort to kill the innocent child (or in the case of Less Pressure--Innocent children).

I have not given a large list of reads yet because oh duh 36 friggen pages with some peeps not yet talking or not talking much....

On top of that had some modly things to do.

And yeah my knee still hurts.

BTW I will get on this game a lot more after I rest my knee and we take Lucky to the vet today. He has been throwing up a lot and I am worried about him.

yes Z dude is the zmon one I call the other one muffin to keep them straight. Also call notscience Notty so it does not get confused with NS who is my fiance.

Var you and MS really need to get it together more its making extremely difficult to figure out your slot.

more later dudes and dudettes

We need to lynch Rach today. Not only will the entire TD wagon be cleared, but we'll also know that FTL is definitely scum. The nick and mastin wagons need to go away.

Desperado · Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:13 am

In post 966, mastin2 wrote:On Desperado, well, consider him almost-interchangeable with Andrius. Standing alone, he's a stronger scumread, though the super-sekrit theory being true would make him a weaker scumread than Andy. He's also close to null because I'm seeing bits which could be the town-Desp. I'm still seeing a lot which suggests scum, but he's definitely in the weaker half.

I feel like you're overstating your experience with me. What games did you use to build your town-Desp meta and what aren't you seeing here?

And can you do this exercise for Mala and Mac as well? All we're getting from you is "I can't explain it, but this just. isn't. scuMac" and or "I can't explain it, but Mala just seems...

different

from her town-self."

Desperado · Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:14 am

In post 409, RachMarie wrote:Whether TD is scum or town I am not sure on, but I am leaning town cause that wagon hell Nacho has not even posted yet..... And a few others as well. 8 of 11 votes? Cmon guys n gals we need to examine those on his wagon duh.

Desperado · Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:17 am

In post 175, borkjerfkin wrote:[8] TiphaineDeath (Venmar, zMuffinMan, nickthename, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mac, Ghostlin, Faster Than Light, Trust Fund)

I think I'll rephrase: everyone minus FTL would be cleared. And besides mac, which I'm losing confidence in with every townread who defends him, I don't have any problem with those other 7 names.

Desperado · Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:29 am

In post 1015, thezmon221 wrote:I'd be okay with that lynch too. But nick is a bigger wagon and more support has been garnered for it.

I really don't think the nick wagon is going to go much further. On the other hand, I'm fairly certain there are 5-6 votes for Rach (me, you, nacho, andrius, muffin, mollie) + others who haven't taken a stance yet. And if the Rach wagon stalls you can always go back.

Desperado · Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:52 am

Is he scummier than Rach though? I really don't think so.

Desperado · Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:54 am

Spoiler: Mollie's nick case

In post 895, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 873, nickthename wrote:
Town-leaning
:

Malakittens
- I've already talked about this, but her entering the thread looks towny.

zMuffin
- Feels authentic, although I'm still waiting on his new reads.

thezmon
- Arguing against him feels like arguing with a thoughtful townie, although I disagree with some of his reads

BROseiden
- I like his notes regarding ghostlin, a player most people seem to have overlooked. His liar tell thing seems dumb, but it also seems town.
I love lists.

remind me again why mala's entrance was town? I thought it was very bad and was starting to scum read her for it but she is looking better and majiffy getting under skin feels like it is coming more from frustrated townie than a scummy act.

so muffin looks authentic and that is why you have him as town? can you expand on that?

thez read is decent

bro read looks vaguely like grooming an unconfident townie.

Null
:

Rach
- She's right up there with zMuffin as far as time since we last heard from her, and her play before didn't really give me much of an opinion on her.

Skull
- Nothing to see here

Nacho
- Not contributing much, but nacho never contributes much. Until something serious that he is forced to react to, I doubt I'll get much of a read here.

Andrius
- His scumread on me feels forced, but his read of the game feels towny. Dunno, really.

Ghostlin
-Yet to see very much from him. His vote on Mala is dumb, but it doesn't really pop out is scum to me. I'd like some reads from him.

TD
- His emotions seem legitimate, but I'm not sure I'm a fan of how quiet he's been lately.

Venmar
- Who knows? Not me.

Those other 2 hydras
- Too hard to read for anything real D1, methinks.
Everyone else I forgot.
if nicky flips scum then andy is most assuredly is his partner. scum always always always put at least 1 partner dead in the middle and hey! I was scum reading andy anyways so

the nacho never contributes much is a bunch of crap and untrue and there should more peeps than just me who will point this out.

nothing to say about venny's claim or play? lol hedge.

Scum-leaning:-

B&B
- The harass of Mala doesn't look towny. That said, the hydra dissonance is strong with this one, and i'm having a hard time even figuring out what they believe. Also, sign your posts, seriously, it's not hard. Can yall like, talk to eachother and agree on reads or something?

FTL
- Have these 2 ever played in a hydra before? Seriously, you guys are harder to figure out then B&B, and not in a good way. MS is barely even legible, and all his question seem completely random and pointless. I see a tiny bit of scummieness poking through from Varsoon in posts like this:
VOTE: FTL
I don't get the feeling they are putting any effort at all into working together, making it hard to get a read. Hopefully they'll eventually feel enough preassure to do it, and then I can be more definitive in my read.

Mastin
- Is dumb and doesn't make much sense. His read on me also looks pretty forced, but since he doesn't really bother to back it up, it's hard to tell. It worries me that he doesn't really do any analysis on the TD wagon, which seems like something someone who considers themself to be as analytical as Mastin seems to think he is would do.

Mac
- Reasons are in my iso. Scum.
reads are bad bad bad, and if I had a go at it I would say that he is either bussing ftl (it is around that time) and that (sadly) mastin might be scum (again he puts a scummate in the middle). mastin is also a very good player and 1 of the biggest mistakes is that they will claim a skill beyond their level of experience and scumhunting mastin falls into that category (if mastin is indeed scum). while nicky is being incredibly elegant about it reads like a pile of weaksauce.

wrt the scumread on our slot, none of those are scumtells. majiffy pushes people for reactions that is just how he is. he goes overboard cos he does not always pick up on social cues of when he should stop. I already explained we give independent reads on d1 and then fight about them in the night round and their are players here who are familiar enough with us to know that. I have reigned him in a bit and I now have him on a tight leash which is pretty much what I had to do in xeno1. his d1 reads sucked during that game but he was really hitting it on d2, majiffy is the type of player who does much better with flips and info to work with.

I wanna see a nicky flip cos I am really feeling it that he is scum in this game and I think it will provide a whole lot of info. his case on mac looks like scum leaping all over an inconsistency when town can sometimes be inconsistent with their thoughts too. his vote on ftl looks like he is either bussing or being opportunistic.

VOTE: nicky

gonna type up a full list of my reads in a minute.

mollie, I feel like your nick case is more succinctly summed up as "I disagree with his reads" and not "he has done scummy things x, y, and z." I think my Rach case is better, and you also think she's scummy--can we do Rach today please? I think her flip will be just as informative as nick's would be, with the added bonus that she's actually been doing scummy things all game, while nick's content and engagement with the thread has him in my townpile.

Desperado · Post Post #1030 (isolation #23) » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:16 pm

In post 1026, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1005, Desperado wrote:but we'll also know that FTL is definitely scum.
nope

Why not?

Desperado · Post Post #1034 (isolation #24) » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:48 pm

In post 1031, Nachomamma8 wrote:neither of them have done anything even a little bit scummy which is extraordinarily surprising, considering the hydra.

That's a huge stretch Nacho.

Desperado · Post Post #1039 (isolation #25) » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:12 pm

In post 1035, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1034, Desperado wrote:
In post 1031, Nachomamma8 wrote:neither of them have done anything even a little bit scummy which is extraordinarily surprising, considering the hydra.
That's a huge stretch Nacho.
it sounds like it, right?
but these two are town take that to the bank and cash it in for a fine townie check.

Walk me through Rachtown please

Desperado · Post Post #1288 (isolation #26) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:14 am

Mollie, can you and ffery talk to me about what you guys are seeing with Andy? You've talked a little about the differences between his entrance here and in Xeno 1, but now you're saying he's playing like scum-Andy, which I am unfamiliar with.

SoS: Can you quote something useful that Rach has done? I agree that "being useful" is hard for Rach regardless of alignment, but Trust Fund and I are both seeing scum-Rach here for what I imagine are similar reasons.

Desperado · Post Post #1287 (isolation #27) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:14 am

Mollie, can you and ffery talk to me about what you guys are seeing with Andy? You've talked a little about the differences between his entrance here and in Xeno 1, but now you're saying he's playing like scum-Andy, which I am unfamiliar with.

SoS: Can you quote something useful that Rach has done? I agree that "being useful" is hard for Rach regardless of alignment, but Trust Fund and I are both seeing scum-Rach here for what I imagine are similar reasons.

Desperado · Post Post #1286 (isolation #28) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:14 am

Mollie, can you and ffery talk to me about what you guys are seeing with Andy? You've talked a little about the differences between his entrance here and in Xeno 1, but now you're saying he's playing like scum-Andy, which I am unfamiliar with.

SoS: Can you quote something useful that Rach has done? I agree that "being useful" is hard for Rach regardless of alignment, but Trust Fund and I are both seeing scum-Rach here for what I imagine are similar reasons.

Desperado · Post Post #1294 (isolation #29) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:24 am

I guess I'm just really not seeing it then. Breaking it down into 4 parts, 1) is not useful, 2) is potentially useful, but Rach never actually examined the wagon, 3) is not useful, and 4) is not useful.

What did we actually learn about Rach's view of the game from this post? Nothing. "There are almost definitely scum on this bad wagon, we should look there!" is not content. "I'm not sold on both of you as town and you might be using your "hey we know each other" to blatantly buddy as scum" is not content, it's obfuscation.

And quoting that post shows just how useless Rach has been considering this:

In post 570, RachMarie wrote:ye gods

Sorry about that Mollie its more confusion than anything else. This game totally exploded faster than I thought it would. Going to look at some ISOs

FTR anyone who has ever played with me knows I get suspicious of fast wagons and quick lynches.

About time you got here Nacho

Wait Andy is playing too? where is he?

grumble grumble I will take some time to get a handle on this game

Could someone let me know who the heads of the hydrae are?

Other than B n B I know that one is Mollie and Jiffy.

The hydra question is so blatantly manufactured that it's honestly hard to believe. She's referred to all six of the heads in SOS/Trust Fund/BnB by name by the time she asks this question. No follow up on the TD wagon, no follow up on the ffery/mollie interactions.

Rach is scum, guys.

Desperado · Post Post #1296 (isolation #30) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:25 am

In post 1290, Trust Fund wrote:I'd answer about what I think about Andy, but my name isn't fery or mollie :X

Please do, I've never played with him before and a bunch of my townreads are telling me he's obvscum because of meta and I'm not seeing it. It's disconcerting.

Desperado · Post Post #1305 (isolation #31) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:36 am

In post 1299, zMuffinMan wrote:
desperado wrote:What did we actually learn about Rach's view of the game from this post? Nothing. "There are almost definitely scum on this bad wagon, we should look there!" is not content. "I'm not sold on both of you as town and you might be using your "hey we know each other" to blatantly buddy as scum" is not content, it's obfuscation.
QFT. This (and the rest of 1294) is a more concise version of the thoughts I posted back in 879 in my mastin response, which expands on a lot of the reasons I think the quotes mastin called town are actually scum quotes.

Don't see where the town reads are coming from.

Also, @Desperado, 1137 has some responses to you.

Yeah I'm losing confidence in Macscum. Mollie's familiarity with him is much higher and she's got him as town, and a couple other people (you included) that I trust are telling me to back off so I have. We really need to focus on Rach. I'm concerned that a couple prominent people are writing her off as lynch bait.

Desperado · Post Post #1306 (isolation #32) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:36 am

In post 1299, zMuffinMan wrote:
desperado wrote:What did we actually learn about Rach's view of the game from this post? Nothing. "There are almost definitely scum on this bad wagon, we should look there!" is not content. "I'm not sold on both of you as town and you might be using your "hey we know each other" to blatantly buddy as scum" is not content, it's obfuscation.
QFT. This (and the rest of 1294) is a more concise version of the thoughts I posted back in 879 in my mastin response, which expands on a lot of the reasons I think the quotes mastin called town are actually scum quotes.

Don't see where the town reads are coming from.

Also, @Desperado, 1137 has some responses to you.

Yeah I'm losing confidence in Macscum. Mollie's familiarity with him is much higher and she's got him as town, and a couple other people (you included) that I trust are telling me to back off so I have. We really need to focus on Rach. I'm concerned that a couple prominent people are writing her off as lynch bait.

Desperado · Post Post #1307 (isolation #33) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:36 am

In post 1299, zMuffinMan wrote:
desperado wrote:What did we actually learn about Rach's view of the game from this post? Nothing. "There are almost definitely scum on this bad wagon, we should look there!" is not content. "I'm not sold on both of you as town and you might be using your "hey we know each other" to blatantly buddy as scum" is not content, it's obfuscation.
QFT. This (and the rest of 1294) is a more concise version of the thoughts I posted back in 879 in my mastin response, which expands on a lot of the reasons I think the quotes mastin called town are actually scum quotes.

Don't see where the town reads are coming from.

Also, @Desperado, 1137 has some responses to you.

Yeah I'm losing confidence in Macscum. Mollie's familiarity with him is much higher and she's got him as town, and a couple other people (you included) that I trust are telling me to back off so I have. We really need to focus on Rach. I'm concerned that a couple prominent people are writing her off as lynch bait.

Desperado · Post Post #1310 (isolation #34) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:39 am

In post 1300, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:@ syrlacious <3

@desp

the entrance post fit his scum meta but pl had not ended yet so I couldn't say it. it is a strong meta read, not in the way of pattern-matching but what I know about andy. he is posturing for affect <---- for andy, I am thinking that is a relative scumtell.

Yeah I read those walls from Perpetual Mylo and I can see what you are seeing.

With that said, I also see a) way more detail in his reads and b) way more time spent antagonizing unconfirmed players.

What needs to happen to get you on board with Rach-scum? You were null-scum leaning on her earlier, what changed? I feel like she's gotten scummier as the game has progressed

Desperado · Post Post #1313 (isolation #35) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:41 am

In post 1303, Sound of Silence wrote:
In post 1294, Desperado wrote:I guess I'm just really not seeing it then. Breaking it down into 4 parts, 1) is not useful, 2) is potentially useful, but Rach never actually examined the wagon, 3) is not useful, and 4) is not useful.

What did we actually learn about Rach's view of the game from this post? Nothing. "There are almost definitely scum on this bad wagon, we should look there!" is not content. "I'm not sold on both of you as town and you might be using your "hey we know each other" to blatantly buddy as scum" is not content, it's obfuscation.

And quoting that post shows just how useless Rach has been considering this:

In post 570, RachMarie wrote:ye gods

Sorry about that Mollie its more confusion than anything else. This game totally exploded faster than I thought it would. Going to look at some ISOs

FTR anyone who has ever played with me knows I get suspicious of fast wagons and quick lynches.

About time you got here Nacho

Wait Andy is playing too? where is he?

grumble grumble I will take some time to get a handle on this game

Could someone let me know who the heads of the hydrae are?

Other than B n B I know that one is Mollie and Jiffy.
The hydra question is so blatantly manufactured that it's honestly hard to believe. She's referred to all six of the heads in SOS/Trust Fund/BnB by name by the time she asks this question. No follow up on the TD wagon, no follow up on the ffery/mollie interactions.

Rach is scum, guys.

In the quoted post and also for example in 432, you can see that she is formulating reads. That's what GiF means as "useful".

Yeah but we're almost 1000 posts out from those two examples and we've still gotten nothing from her. I can't tell you a single thing that Rach actually believes.

Desperado · Post Post #1314 (isolation #36) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:42 am

In post 1311, notscience wrote:Desp have you ever played with Rach before?

Yeah we rolled scum together in Micro 168, and were in *ONGOING*

Desperado · Post Post #1324 (isolation #37) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:02 am

In post 1320, Sound of Silence wrote:about 1000 post in a really fast moving thread. Her rate of posting over time here is consistent with recent games I've played with her since her knee injury and stuff. I don't think that is alignment indicative.

I wasn't saying that her rate of posting was alignment indicative. You are saying that she was formulating reads in 409 and 432, but 570 is the fluffiest post in her ISO and shows no follow up on the formulations she was making earlier. 896 is more of the same.

PEdit: I think that's kind of a cop out. Skull needs to provide more content. Rach has been engaged with the game continuously without providing any reads or following up on anything she thought was suspicious. Her ISO is a giant hot air balloon and she needs to go.

Desperado · Post Post #1325 (isolation #38) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:05 am

In post 1321, Malakittens wrote:
In post 1310, Desperado wrote:
In post 1300, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:@ syrlacious <3

@desp

the entrance post fit his scum meta but pl had not ended yet so I couldn't say it. it is a strong meta read, not in the way of pattern-matching but what I know about andy. he is posturing for affect <---- for andy, I am thinking that is a relative scumtell.
Yeah I read those walls from Perpetual Mylo and I can see what you are seeing.

With that said, I also see a) way more detail in his reads and b) way more time spent antagonizing unconfirmed players.

What needs to happen to get you on board with Rach-scum? You were null-scum leaning on her earlier, what changed? I feel like she's gotten scummier as the game has progressed

Okay from Perpetual LyLo to Xeno I. I see a difference in the first wall. Xeno I - less fluffy, less ragey. Second post similar reaction to the Sven claim to NS claim here. Perpetual LyLo - more fluffy, more ragey. Also the reads are more developed.

VOTE: Andy

In the process of moving back onto Mastin scum-game in Micro vs Mastin-town game in Micro. brb.

I'm confused. Is the bold not saying that his Perpetual Mylo walls were different than his Xeno 1 and Xeno 2 walls?

And where are you at re: Rach?

Desperado · Post Post #1333 (isolation #39) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:47 am

Nacho and muffin: where are you getting these hard town reads on FTL?

Desperado · Post Post #1335 (isolation #40) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:57 am

Varsoon's boss-level AtE is making me paranoid because of Calvin and Hobbes. I called him out as scum all game but he coasted on a miller neighborizer claim and was basically conftown by the end. He and Zoidberg got into an epic pissing match D1 and the level of effort/commitment to the role (in this case, the wounded/falsely accused good guy) was exactly the same.

Desperado · Post Post #1336 (isolation #41) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:57 am

Varsoon's boss-level AtE is making me paranoid because of Calvin and Hobbes. I called him out as scum all game but he coasted on a miller neighborizer claim and was basically conftown by the end. He and Zoidberg got into an epic pissing match D1 and the level of effort/commitment to the role (in this case, the wounded/falsely accused good guy) was exactly the same.

Desperado · Post Post #1397 (isolation #42) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:46 pm

In post 1383, Venmar wrote:^ bad vote right now
^ also probably town

vote mastin

( rach i never wanted to lynch you in this game, just didn't think you were all that town until recently )

Are you high? What could Rach have possibly done "recently" to make her "never lynching you" level town?

@ Rach: Conf-bias? Can you be a little more specific?

And your reads post is just awful. Not only do you STILL not have any legitimate reads, your first legitimate vote is blatantly passing the buck off on mollie and Jiffy. You don't even think Andy is scum, but because mollie/Jiffy are often right when they are town, you are going to sheep them?

Desperado · Post Post #1399 (isolation #43) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:51 pm

In post 1398, Sound of Silence wrote:You're expecting too much from Rach

By the by, fery told me that syry wanted to talk with me.

Legitimate FOSes that aren't accompanied by self-evident questions that she wouldn't have to ask if she were actually reading the thread is too much to ask?

She asked Andy to provide some scum games when his scum meta has already been posted in depth. The read is fake and she's positioning herself to blame mollie/jiffy if Andy flips town, and the rest of her reads list is even worse...

Desperado · Post Post #1402 (isolation #44) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:59 pm

In post 1401, RachMarie wrote:Look again I have Andy as leaning scum

Seriously Des what will you do
if
I flip town? Who will you look at then?

I admitted my reads suck, but it is early. A lot of the pages here really are more noise than signal which means it takes a while to sort out the wheat from the chaff duh.

I rely a lot on Meta especially if I have not played a bunch of games with someone, which is why I was asking for links so I can skim through and see if I can get a better handle on some of the other players.

You have him as leaning scum but then you ask for him to provide meta (that's already been provided)

So were you just not going to read those games or what? I took that to mean your interpretation was still open.

@bolded slipslipslipslip

But seriously if you flip town I'll do the same thing I did every other time I mislynched town--forget about it and keep looking for scum.

Desperado · Post Post #1433 (isolation #45) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:27 pm

In post 1431, Malakittens wrote:^ Yeah you are just PL'ing her for being useless.

No he isn't.

Desperado · Post Post #1580 (isolation #46) » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:34 am

In post 1467, Ghostlin wrote:
In post 1402, Desperado wrote:
In post 1401, RachMarie wrote:Look again I have Andy as leaning scum

Seriously Des what will you do
if
I flip town? Who will you look at then?

I admitted my reads suck, but it is early. A lot of the pages here really are more noise than signal which means it takes a while to sort out the wheat from the chaff duh.

I rely a lot on Meta especially if I have not played a bunch of games with someone, which is why I was asking for links so I can skim through and see if I can get a better handle on some of the other players.
You have him as leaning scum but then you ask for him to provide meta (that's already been provided)

So were you just not going to read those games or what? I took that to mean your interpretation was still open.

@bolded slipslipslipslip

But seriously if you flip town I'll do the same thing I did every other time I mislynched town--forget about it and keep looking for scum.
Going to tell you something honestly, Desp, and this is only because I want to get this deeply embedded in this site's meta: Scumslips are
bullshit.
At least 90% of the time they end up lynching a target that town doesn't intend because it's like driving a fucking automatic once one is 'found', everyone, including the scum, rides the slip.

I think Rach probably is scum, because she crapped up the thread Day 1 on the first Xenosaga, and she's crapping it up harder now, but this...isn't the reason why, and the fact you used scumslip is part of your reasoning is superfuckingbadhorrible and you should feel superfuckingbad horrible.

[4] mastin2 (Venmar, BROseidon, nickthename, Skullduggery): I just want to note this here for later. It's relevance I promise you will pay dividends to this town.

TF, my biggest problem with you eariler is you let Skull jump on the mastin lynch, and praised them for being probably the laziest scum hunting/trying to look town by asking 'questions' in 2013. God, I want to jump on a Skull lynch right now. Since I'm slightly iffy on Mala right now:

Unvote

Vote: Skullduggery

God, that's like smoking a cigarette.

HEY, NACHO. I GET YOU'RE A BIG DEAL AROUND THIS SITE, BUT YOU CAN ONLY GET AWAY WITH CRAP LIKE ASKING NS WHO'S SCUM SO MANY TIMES WITHOUT BOTHERING TO WORK AND READ THE THREAD BEFORE WE LYNCH YOUR ASS.

AND ANDRIUS, NOT SHOWING UP TO THE IMPORTANT MAFIA DATE OF PLAYING THIS GAME DOES NOT INSTILL CONFIDENCE IN ME ABOUT YOUR TOWN STATUS.

...sadly I would support either of these lynches for the above reasons right the hell now.

Shooting NS is stupid. I think I read something discussing this in this thread. You don't waste bullets on Townies and the vig shot is not the new PL to avoid someone undesirable in LYLO. I've also read we should give credence to everything NS says because he's conf-Town. He's conf-Town, kids, not Jesus, and I think you've got the two confused slightly. In fact, that crap logic is like inception level scummy, and I might have to check who the fuck said that.

...Oh, it's Mala. [/notsurprised]

Desp, you said you had AtE of horrific levels instance in C&H re: Varshoon? Mind linking me to that?

Reading Venmar's ISO gives me a woobbly sort of the feeling, like the kind where something's wrong. It might be the lazy mode, tho'.

It was a joke. Which is why the next line said "but seriously."

Varsoon didn't exhibit crazy AtE in Calvin and Hobbes, but what he did do was commit 100% to a role and stick to it. In the case of that game, he and Zoidberg got into an epic 1v1 that culminated in this post from scum-Varsoon. At the time I thought the effort level was really genuine and towny. I'm getting the same feel from his over the top AtE here.

In post 1511, Venmar wrote:
In post 1397, Desperado wrote:Are you high? What could Rach have possibly done
"recently" to make her "never lynching you" level town?
- Bolded is a misrep, i didn't say she was that strong of a town.
- Reads list is in in line with her town meta, plus i got good feelings from it even if you guys think the reads themselves sucked.

Gonna do these kind of posts as I read up, respond to what i want.

Sorry, I misread something you said to her.

Can you link me to some town Rach? The only one I've seen was when her surgery actually happened so I don't think she or anyone else would treat it as representative.

Desperado · Post Post #1579 (isolation #47) » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:34 am

In post 1467, Ghostlin wrote:
In post 1402, Desperado wrote:
In post 1401, RachMarie wrote:Look again I have Andy as leaning scum

Seriously Des what will you do
if
I flip town? Who will you look at then?

I admitted my reads suck, but it is early. A lot of the pages here really are more noise than signal which means it takes a while to sort out the wheat from the chaff duh.

I rely a lot on Meta especially if I have not played a bunch of games with someone, which is why I was asking for links so I can skim through and see if I can get a better handle on some of the other players.
You have him as leaning scum but then you ask for him to provide meta (that's already been provided)

So were you just not going to read those games or what? I took that to mean your interpretation was still open.

@bolded slipslipslipslip

But seriously if you flip town I'll do the same thing I did every other time I mislynched town--forget about it and keep looking for scum.
Going to tell you something honestly, Desp, and this is only because I want to get this deeply embedded in this site's meta: Scumslips are
bullshit.
At least 90% of the time they end up lynching a target that town doesn't intend because it's like driving a fucking automatic once one is 'found', everyone, including the scum, rides the slip.

I think Rach probably is scum, because she crapped up the thread Day 1 on the first Xenosaga, and she's crapping it up harder now, but this...isn't the reason why, and the fact you used scumslip is part of your reasoning is superfuckingbadhorrible and you should feel superfuckingbad horrible.

[4] mastin2 (Venmar, BROseidon, nickthename, Skullduggery): I just want to note this here for later. It's relevance I promise you will pay dividends to this town.

TF, my biggest problem with you eariler is you let Skull jump on the mastin lynch, and praised them for being probably the laziest scum hunting/trying to look town by asking 'questions' in 2013. God, I want to jump on a Skull lynch right now. Since I'm slightly iffy on Mala right now:

Unvote

Vote: Skullduggery

God, that's like smoking a cigarette.

HEY, NACHO. I GET YOU'RE A BIG DEAL AROUND THIS SITE, BUT YOU CAN ONLY GET AWAY WITH CRAP LIKE ASKING NS WHO'S SCUM SO MANY TIMES WITHOUT BOTHERING TO WORK AND READ THE THREAD BEFORE WE LYNCH YOUR ASS.

AND ANDRIUS, NOT SHOWING UP TO THE IMPORTANT MAFIA DATE OF PLAYING THIS GAME DOES NOT INSTILL CONFIDENCE IN ME ABOUT YOUR TOWN STATUS.

...sadly I would support either of these lynches for the above reasons right the hell now.

Shooting NS is stupid. I think I read something discussing this in this thread. You don't waste bullets on Townies and the vig shot is not the new PL to avoid someone undesirable in LYLO. I've also read we should give credence to everything NS says because he's conf-Town. He's conf-Town, kids, not Jesus, and I think you've got the two confused slightly. In fact, that crap logic is like inception level scummy, and I might have to check who the fuck said that.

...Oh, it's Mala. [/notsurprised]

Desp, you said you had AtE of horrific levels instance in C&H re: Varshoon? Mind linking me to that?

Reading Venmar's ISO gives me a woobbly sort of the feeling, like the kind where something's wrong. It might be the lazy mode, tho'.

It was a joke. Which is why the next line said "but seriously."

Varsoon didn't exhibit crazy AtE in Calvin and Hobbes, but what he did do was commit 100% to a role and stick to it. In the case of that game, he and Zoidberg got into an epic 1v1 that culminated in this post from scum-Varsoon. At the time I thought the effort level was really genuine and towny. I'm getting the same feel from his over the top AtE here.

In post 1511, Venmar wrote:
In post 1397, Desperado wrote:Are you high? What could Rach have possibly done
"recently" to make her "never lynching you" level town?
- Bolded is a misrep, i didn't say she was that strong of a town.
- Reads list is in in line with her town meta, plus i got good feelings from it even if you guys think the reads themselves sucked.

Gonna do these kind of posts as I read up, respond to what i want.

Sorry, I misread something you said to her.

Can you link me to some town Rach? The only one I've seen was when her surgery actually happened so I don't think she or anyone else would treat it as representative.

Desperado · Post Post #1584 (isolation #48) » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:53 am

In post 1582, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1580, Desperado wrote:At the time I thought the effort level was really genuine and towny. I'm getting the same feel from his over the top AtE here.
I'm not seeing the comparisons.

The commitment to the role. It's not strong, it's just making me paranoid.

Desperado · Post Post #1585 (isolation #49) » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:53 am

In post 1582, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1580, Desperado wrote:At the time I thought the effort level was really genuine and towny. I'm getting the same feel from his over the top AtE here.
I'm not seeing the comparisons.

The commitment to the role. It's not strong, it's just making me paranoid.

Desperado · Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:49 am

In post 1608, TiphaineDeath wrote:Mac-Trust-Muffinz-Skull-Mastin fuck rach, that's 5, and they all connect.

UNVOTE:

What happens to all of these attempts to nail the whole scumteam D1 when you and Mastin and AJ all realize that scum don't have to have connections to one another?

Desperado · Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:49 am

In post 1608, TiphaineDeath wrote:Mac-Trust-Muffinz-Skull-Mastin fuck rach, that's 5, and they all connect.

UNVOTE:

What happens to all of these attempts to nail the whole scumteam D1 when you and Mastin and AJ all realize that scum don't have to have connections to one another?

Desperado · Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:56 am

In post 1619, thezmon221 wrote:You know that Rach connects herself to other scum obviously, right? Because... Cabd just gave 2 links of doing so, and apparently has more. Besides, there's always some connection, but the point is, Rach is scum.

Unless I read something wrong there are also examples that don't follow the trend you describe, which means that it's not even a trend.

And it's not limited to just Rach. Mastin's post reads like a deleted scene from A Beautiful Mind and I don't understand how that brand of scumhunting is useful D1.

Desperado · Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:56 am

In post 1619, thezmon221 wrote:You know that Rach connects herself to other scum obviously, right? Because... Cabd just gave 2 links of doing so, and apparently has more. Besides, there's always some connection, but the point is, Rach is scum.

Unless I read something wrong there are also examples that don't follow the trend you describe, which means that it's not even a trend.

And it's not limited to just Rach. Mastin's post reads like a deleted scene from A Beautiful Mind and I don't understand how that brand of scumhunting is useful D1.

Desperado · Post Post #1727 (isolation #54) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:38 am

DESPERADO: 46 POSTS : NULL-LEANING-SCUM
WHY: This is actually one of the reads that I’m deferring to Metal Sonic. I see his posts as pretty null and tunnel-oriented while still sort-of engaging with what other players have to say, but Metal feels like the case made against us is a strong push for a mislynch without information and that the small number of posts/content ratio is what’s making him harder to read outright. As a note, he has 46 posts here, but most are double-posts and sometimes triple-posts. Get that fixed, Desperado.

I don't have a case against you. And I can't fix my laptop so, get over it?

Spoiler:
701 : Late entry to the game, but only does ISO work on a handful of people. The vote on Rach isn't very articulated, and previous anti-Rach people have already made these points in much more detail, I feel.

I thought my vote was articulated just fine under "Rach is scum." What did you disagree with?

1004 : Here's where I have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. Desperado's been pushing this Rach wagon like no one's business with very little substantive work done other than saying she's Rach and she's scum. The thing that busts my balls, though, is when he says Rach's flip will confirm me as scum. What? How? It seems like too large a jump, especially given that Desperado hasn't mentioned me at all so far in his posts outside of a single instance of talking about waffles. (For the record, I prefer pancakes, but waffles can be pretty dope from time to time) This gets echoed in his 1011, too.

I bolded a sentence that Rach said about you that clearly implicated you as a partner imo. Something along the lines of "I can't get a good read on the Vars/MS hydra and they need to get their shit together" when your wagon was picking up steam. Read like scum coaching their partner, especially without a vote attached.

1038 : There's been objections to the Rach wagon so far, so it's interesting to point out that here is where he defers to Nacho. I think that Desperado is town-reading Nacho and either wants an out for his Rach case so that he can push someone else, or, if Nacho's logic isn't sound, he'll continue to push now that he's certain there won't be outspoken Nacho opposition--which, for the record, is some powerful shit.

I'm not deferring to anyone. I was asking Nacho to walk me through his townread on Rach so I could explain why he was wrong. How did you perceive deference in that post?

1335 : The talk of my Calvin/Hobbes AtE here is actually pretty damning evidence. First of all, it allows him to retrospectively and subtly push on me without making an actual case (see: Desperado's play against me this whole game) while appealing to the real meta-heads who are on the fence about me (See: BROseidon, especially). What splits this from the way BRO goes about Meta is that Desperado is using it to call suspicion onto my slot. It's an inaccurate portrayal, because I've made use of the same appeals and rhetoric as both scum and town (See: Open 489 "You Are Not Cats" as well as "Calvin and Hobbes Mafia"). Of course, on a personal level, I feel like using Meta to make these sorts of arguments against players is useless and far-and-away exploitable by scum, so I'm a bit biased on this front. Still, my meta spits in the face of the accusation, and it really feels like Desperado is testing the waters with pushing a mislynch on me. He later cites ‘commitment to the role’ as reason why he’s paranoid, pulling back a bit on the insane anti-FTL claims he’d put forth earlier. I think Desperado doesn’t realize I commit pretty damn hard in most of my games, regardless of alignment. I replace out when I can’t commit.
MS edit: Desperado’s push on us because of “paranoia” sounds like an excuse to push us without having any real reason. I was in that Calvin&Hobbes game too along with Vars and Desp so I see where he’s coming from but the fact that he only read the Varsoon head and provided no comments about me makes his push scummy imo

I don't care about your other games because I've only played with you once, and your insane AtE in the middle of this game was reminiscent of your scum game in Calvin and Hobbes. I said it was making me paranoid.

Why are you two both so sensitive? I'm not even close to pushing your slot for a lynch so all of this just reads like over-defensive BS. And I'm not making any comments on you, MS, because you're completely unreadable for me. RW and C&H made that pretty clear.

And your Rach-town argument is so weak, jesus. "I've never seen rach post a reads list so she must be town!" are you kidding me? Appeasement = town? How long did it take to get those reads out of her?

You didn't even PBPA her because you couldn't possibly find town motivation in her posts--you literally said you are townreading her because "of the way other people interacted with her wagon." That's nonsensical.

Desperado · Post Post #1729 (isolation #55) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:10 am

In post 1728, Faster Than Light wrote:@Desperado: Please don't misrepresent my Rach case. My justifications for her being town are largely based on wagon/FoS analysis. It makes plenty of sense. Also, I'm pretty sure that Rach is a Null read from our hydra.

I see 1038 as you seeing that Nacho is a strong town voice recognized across town. Letting Nacho make a Rach case for you is suspect to me.

-V

You don't have a case to misrep, Varsoon. You said "i tried to do this but it's all meta so I stopped" and then left it at "I don't like the way people interacted with her wagon" and "Rach gave reads lists and she NEVER does that" as to why she's town.

Why would I ask Nacho to make a Rach-town case when I don't believe that?!? Your point is nonsensical and not reflective of reality.

Desperado · Post Post #1732 (isolation #56) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:19 am

In post 1730, Faster Than Light wrote:@Desperado: On the point of me not having a case, that's fair. I don't have a substantial case. It's a case, though, so don't undermine it.

On your Nacho point, I read it like asking the opposing army what weapons and troops they have. If Nacho didn't have a strong town case on Rach, you could push the lynch hard. If Nacho did, you had an 'out' to swap to town-reading her.

Or:

If Nacho didn't have a strong town case on Rach, I could push the lynch harder with his support. If Nacho did, I could explain why he was wrong, and then push the lynch harder with his support.

Desperado · Post Post #1940 (isolation #57) » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:20 am

So does anyone off the Andrius/Rach wagons plan on pushing their lynch or can we cut the shit and get on with this?

Desperado · Post Post #2064 (isolation #58) » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:07 am

Rach, FTL, and Bro are the lynches I would support today.

Desperado · Post Post #2079 (isolation #59) » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:43 am

Based on the 13 lynch pools provided, Rach and Andrius are still the only realistic lynches today.

Ghostlin: You have Rach and Andrius both as scum but haven't touched their wagons. Why not?

Mastin: Same question.

B&tB and SoS: Bro probably isn't happening today and you guys aren't doing much to change that. Mollie, you already said Rach is moving towards null--can that be talked into a vote? Fferry, are you still townreading Rach?

Saki and Mutley: Shut up and focus. Then vote Rach.

Venmar, NS, Mac: wtf are you guys doing? Put your vote somewhere useful. Like on Rach.

Desperado · Post Post #2083 (isolation #60) » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:05 am

In post 2061, Ghostlin wrote:1738has my scumlist. That list hasn't changed much except for the following alterations:

Andy, since posting as drunk Andy, is sliding more towards Town at this point toward null/scum.

Saki, who took over the Thezmon slot, has slid that slot toward null--I don't like the crap posting; and it's erasing the gut read I had there.

Nacho is sliding towards a soft town read at this point.

It's worth noting that no one's producing anything with any interest to make these change that much.

In post 2081, Ghostly Penguin wrote:Mutley's slot is more scummy. There are three days left to lynch. I will be voting Rach closer to day's end, but I don't see the point in rushing lynch day 1.

Desperado · Post Post #2085 (isolation #61) » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:27 am

In post 2084, Ghostlin wrote:Closing options and ending the day doesn't produce more content. If we're going to durr day 2 like the end of this day, then I'd rather keep my vote where it is and see where consensus is.

@saki: do you really only have Mutley as your only scum read?

I already told you where the consensus is--Rach and Andrius. Who you both have as scum (and have had as scum for quite some time) but haven't voted while simultaneously not pushing a third option. I haven't seen any effort from you to push through a mutley lynch so what are you waiting for?

Desperado · Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:03 am

In post 2089, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:Ok lets work out the facts here;
1) At least half if not more of the playerlist has shown support for putting nick in a scumlist.
2) A wagon has been unable to form on nick despite this.
3) Deadline is in a little over 3 days as of this post.

Based on the above facts, I presume Nick is scum and all these little mini-wagons that have been sprouting up are to keep us from consolidating on nick.

So lets consolidate on nick.
VOTE: nickthename

This is also false in its face: of the 13 lynch pools provided nick was like 5th most popular, I think he appeared in 4

Desperado · Post Post #2175 (isolation #63) » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:54 am

In post 2157, Mutleyddmc wrote:Possible busy weekend for me. I like the case on nick about lots have him in scum pool but no wagon really ever formed so incase I am not around

VOTE: Nick

You like something that was proven false and is based on questionable logic to begin with?

Desperado · Post Post #2200 (isolation #64) » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:59 am

Get over it Majiffy. You overstated the support you had for Nick, gave it a shot anyway, and failed. You aren't getting 11 votes by Monday night.

Desperado · Post Post #2204 (isolation #65) » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:46 am

Muffin already disputed several of the people you claimed supported a nick wagon, and those 10 votes include two nulls would you assume would compromise on Nick at the deadline.

It's really not surprising to anyone paying attention that the nick wagon stalled at 6.

Desperado · Post Post #2205 (isolation #66) » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:46 am

Where do you fall on Rach vs Andy, Majiffy?

Desperado · Post Post #2206 (isolation #67) » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:46 am

Where do you fall on Rach vs Andy, Majiffy?

Desperado · Post Post #2208 (isolation #68) » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:35 am

She's scum, dude

It shouldn't be much longer until everyone starts to realize that reading Rach as town because she plays badly as town is dumb.

Desperado · Post Post #2323 (isolation #69) » Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:18 am

In post 2307, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:2) And without those 2 nulls still puts it at 8/11.
My point still stands about the stalling wagon.

So what do you think of the two people you thought pledged allegiance to the Nick wagon that didn't put their vote where their mouth is?

Desperado · Post Post #2776 (isolation #70) » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:21 am

In post 2743, Aj The Epic wrote:
In post 2740, zMuffinMan wrote:
aj wrote:But show me such a blatant dismissal of a case where someone looks at it and goes "So you're policy lynching Rach?"
EVERY
FUCKING
PERSON
NOT
ON
THE
RM
WAGON
DID
THIS
Specific instances help a bit.

Obviously I shifted my vote to andrius when there was no help. We had about 15 hours to deadline max and I was going to bed soon. There wasn't much time for me to make a final decision.

As for mala not feeling pressure, she was generally yelling at me for pressuring her. I doubt she figured I alone could do it (I can't, not enough votes), but I will get her lynched. Maybe she figured this. Have you seen Mala play as mafia before to know if she defends her scum buddies or not?

Spoiler: B&tB, FTL, Venmar, and NS all dismissing the Rach wagon at various points

In post 2144, Faster Than Light wrote:It doesn't feel like many people have said much of anything, other than she's Rach Marie and that her play isn't amazing.

-V

In post 2349, Faster Than Light wrote:@Nick: I go into it on my 1700, but you're already a bit at odds with that post, so I'll break it down here.
Andy's been high noise and low content for all 95 pages of D1 so far.
He's appealed to emotion left and right to get out of tight spots, especially after learning which players it would work on earlier into the game.
He's currently pushing for a Rach Marie policy lynch based on Rach not posting in this game, rather than actual accusations of things she -has- done in this game.
There's some meta arguments against him and I personally don't like his engagement with the game so far.

Incoming inevitable PR claim from Andrius, am I right?

-V

In post 1700, Faster Than Light wrote:WHY: Metal Sonic has Rach Marie as scum, but I’m really seeing this as her town game. I’ve –never- seen Rach post a reads list, so I’m pretty damn bewildered, but what makes me sold on the fact that she’s town is how much people are trying to justify a lynch on her without using any info. They just keep saying she’s useless and stifling her voice while simultaneously testing the waters to see if the wagon’ll just explode. It’s infuriating to see her slot handled that way, and she does bring a bit of it on herself, but it feels like a lot of the people that want to see her lynched want it for all the wrong reasons.

In post 1513, Venmar wrote:The amount of expectation you guys have for Rach in this game is retarded, HOW are you guys using this to justify your scumreads, its pathetic.

In post 1205, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:also re: rach

I didn't like how confused she kept getting over who was in the hydras and who had posted. she finally coughed up a post with content, mastin and sound are town reading her. rach is lynchbait and I am willing to wait and see more from her for now.

In post 1407, notscience wrote:This push on Rach is bad and should feel bad

In post 1515, notscience wrote:What really makes me laugh is they think they'll get enough votes on Rach to lynch her

In post 1819, notscience wrote:Wait

Saki are you subbing in

Oh my god yes

This game just got infinitely more spammy

Also- Careful around L-1's with him around

@Mollie

Right now I feel like all 4 hydrae are probs town

Andy is probs scum

Nacho is maybe scum

I think the Rach wagon is stupid as fuck

I think Venmar is probs town

I'm back and forth like hell on Mala

I think Mutt needs time to get established before we read his slot because lurksacks don't help anyone

Something in my gut is bugging me about Muffin.

Ghost is probstown

Nick is still probsscum

I don't know what to think about Desp because I read him wrong last time we played together

I probably forgot people but /shrug

In post 1932, notscience wrote:Nacho

Why the bad vote on Rach

In post 1948, notscience wrote:Rach isn't scum

Who else

In post 2188, notscience wrote:I really don't like this Rach wagon.

There was a ton of vocal support for Rach that amounted to "this is how she always is D1, just give her another day phase." I'm sure if you ISO muffin and I you'll see a lot of frustration at the lack of a legitimate counter to our argument.

Desperado · Post Post #2787 (isolation #71) » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:42 am

In post 2785, Aj The Epic wrote:6 of those quotes were notscience. Can't do much there. He's town, regardless of his views.
BnB didn't dismiss the case. They stated Rach to be lynchbait (as they've done with mala, which is completely wrong: She's scum)
FTL has some odd stance. Post one is a dismissal. Post two is his view on Andrius on the wagon (from what I've gathered) and three demonstrates the difference between his and MS' views. However, in that same post, he did run over everyone's content and some of the cases (I specifically remember Thez's) were talked about and made points of.
Venmar, however, in that one post, did completely dismiss it. But in reflection of Mastin's last post... Put simply, I REALLY want Mala first.

BnB (Mollie, actually): Mastin's town this game. You're going to have to do more than slap down a vote to start something on him.

Mala, that post doesn't feel fake or anything. Basically everyone besides TD seems to have BnB as some degree of a town read, so stop trying to buddy up to players. The last two posts have tried exactly that.

I wasn't drawing any conclusions on the alignment of those players, just illustrating that the Rach wagon took so long to get to completion for a reason--because up to 6 of the available votes didn't want to lynch her for what was essentially a free pass D1.

Desperado · Post Post #2788 (isolation #72) » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:42 am

In post 2785, Aj The Epic wrote:6 of those quotes were notscience. Can't do much there. He's town, regardless of his views.
BnB didn't dismiss the case. They stated Rach to be lynchbait (as they've done with mala, which is completely wrong: She's scum)
FTL has some odd stance. Post one is a dismissal. Post two is his view on Andrius on the wagon (from what I've gathered) and three demonstrates the difference between his and MS' views. However, in that same post, he did run over everyone's content and some of the cases (I specifically remember Thez's) were talked about and made points of.
Venmar, however, in that one post, did completely dismiss it. But in reflection of Mastin's last post... Put simply, I REALLY want Mala first.

BnB (Mollie, actually): Mastin's town this game. You're going to have to do more than slap down a vote to start something on him.

Mala, that post doesn't feel fake or anything. Basically everyone besides TD seems to have BnB as some degree of a town read, so stop trying to buddy up to players. The last two posts have tried exactly that.

I wasn't drawing any conclusions on the alignment of those players, just illustrating that the Rach wagon took so long to get to completion for a reason--because up to 6 of the available votes didn't want to lynch her for what was essentially a free pass D1.

Desperado · Post Post #2797 (isolation #73) » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:52 am

In post 2795, BROseidon wrote:Desp you missed the part where Mala dismissed Thez's epic case with "lol PL."

Can we lynch Mala now?

No I didn't, Mala's reaction had already been discussed at length, Aj was asking for other people who felt similarily.

Desperado · Post Post #2919 (isolation #74) » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:02 pm

In post 2907, mastin2 wrote:-So I think that nick's a scum-approved thrown-under-the-bus wagon to try and save their own asses.

Who are the scum saving their asses?

Desperado · Post Post #2930 (isolation #75) » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:15 pm

Not me. What're you seeing mollie?

Desperado · Post Post #2935 (isolation #76) » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:20 pm

Because Nacho is town

Desperado · Post Post #3076 (isolation #77) » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:24 am

mollie and jiffy: Please reevaluate your read on Nick. He's town and the last time I tried to tell you that your case was weak I don't remember you responding.

Desperado · Post Post #3085 (isolation #78) » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:19 am

In post 3082, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 3076, Desperado wrote:mollie and jiffy: Please reevaluate your read on Nick. He's town and the last time I tried to tell you that your case was weak I don't remember you responding.
it is majiffy's case and he will not give it up.

if we don't lynch him today then our vote will be tied up until nicky is lynched or dead. if I try to move our vote majiffy will just move it back.

Majiffy, can you quote what you feel is representative of your case on Nick?

Desperado · Post Post #3105 (isolation #79) » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:57 pm

In post 3103, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:Jesus fucking christ not for the 30,000th time, no.

I'm tired of re-iterating for idiots who don't read the first fifty fucking times.

That's the thing though. I looked and all I saw was your inability to get a wagon on nick going as somehow evidence that he's scum. I'm talking about actual reasons nick is scum.

Desperado · Post Post #3107 (isolation #80) » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:56 pm

...

I'll put it this way: I can't articulate what your reasons are for nickscum. I'm asking you to state them. Can you do that or are you going to continue to be obstinate for no reason?

Desperado · Post Post #3113 (isolation #81) » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:17 am

In post 3108, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:I'm done answering stupid questions.

This includes questions requiring me to repeat myself more than once.

OK, have fun never getting nick lynched.

Desperado · Post Post #3176 (isolation #82) » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:56 am

I have no idea what to make of nick blatantly re-purposing Majiffy's shitty case against him into a case on Mala. Can anyone help me?

Desperado · Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:02 am

@ Muffin: I'd vote FTL, Bro, or Ghostlin right now. In fact

Vote: FTL

Everyone who thinks Nacho/Rach is a thing needs to ISO FTL and Rach together and see what scum-scum interaction really looks like.

@ Nick: I'm not voting mala right now because she isn't a scumread. Why should I be again?

Desperado · Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:29 am

In post 3182, Ghostlin wrote:
In post 3178, Desperado wrote:@ Muffin: I'd vote FTL, Bro, or Ghostlin right now. In fact

Vote: FTL

Everyone who thinks Nacho/Rach is a thing needs to ISO FTL and Rach together and see what scum-scum interaction really looks like.

@ Nick: I'm not voting mala right now because she isn't a scumread. Why should I be again?
Bluntly, I love posts like this, because without any reasoning at all, it reads like this:

"Hrmm. I've not posted in a really damn long time.

Almost 36 hours! How scandalous of me.

I need to post something, and it should be about scum suspects.

I tend to answer questions when people direct them at me.

Who are three people that have little do with any of the wagons so I don't have to commit to anything.

Except I've already committed to nicktown, the only wagon that has mattered all day.

FTL will work. Ghostlin's a good candidate, it makes it seems townie without being too edgy but not someone who has a prayer of being lynched. One to go. Someone who a lot of people are on the fence about...BROsideon!

FTL

will

work considering I identified some of the scum-scum interactions between FTL and Rach in real time. It's in my ISO and everything.

You're a good candidate because you wildly overreacted to my obviously-in-jest accusation that Rach slipped, and whining that no one was producing any content but then refusing to join the Rach wagon because you didn't want to the day to end early and doing fuck-all with the extra time.

And I would vote Bro because Muffin and B&tB both think he's scum and their reasons are compelling.

Now to vote one. Ghostlin will mock me and use the f-word a lot derisively. BRO might not respond, but FTL's posting cat pics. Wonderful! Let's place the vote there!"

Was there a purpose to this post again?

However, Desp's right about one thing. My friends, I've been hiding something from you. I'm a Night 2 Suicidal Townie with the ability to give out the post restriction of using metaphors from Greek mythology when I die. I thought I'd give it to Andrius, he seems like the person most in Town to be able to use the parallels between being raped by a swan, and someone's reads to the maximum effect of comedy gold.

Oh. Guess not.

Desperado · Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:55 am

In post 3183, Desperado wrote:And I would vote Bro because Muffin and B&tB both think he's scum and their reasons are compelling.

Desperado · Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:03 pm

Your interaction with the TD wagon and your end of day play have both been analyzed extensively by them and show rock solid scum motivation.

Desperado · Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:37 pm

In post 3190, Ghostlin wrote:
In post 3188, BROseidon wrote:What about their reasons do you find compelling, specifically?

Can anyone in this game post things that are not uber-high level and unable to engage with?
Alright. Desp's reentry to this game is bad, and he should feel bad?

In post 3191, BROseidon wrote:So you're not going to rearticulate the arguments or add anything. Got it.

pedit: Pretty much. That re-entry is wretched.

"Re-entry?" What are you guys talking about?

Desperado · Post Post #3363 (isolation #88) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:40 am

In post 3283, Ghostlin wrote:Des (null/scum and falling): His entry and his entire work Day 2 is atrocious compared to Day 1. Seriously, dude, it's like you've not read the thread at all when you came back from your only 36 hour hiatus.

Dude,

what are you talking about?

What you're referring to as my "entry" into D2 was my 13th post of the day. Can you be more specific?

Desperado · Post Post #3371 (isolation #89) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:55 am

Unvote
Vote: nick

Desperado · Post Post #3372 (isolation #90) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:56 am

For #3354 and Mala's catch above

Desperado · Post Post #3374 (isolation #91) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:04 am

In post 3373, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:desp you have been a non-presence why is that

I've been present when I've had computer access.

Desperado · Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:53 am

@ Jiffy: ??? I didn't see anyone else mention it

Desperado · Post Post #3434 (isolation #93) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:24 am

In post 3394, nickthename wrote:@zMuffin

That's a really stupid idea. How about instead of that, you read and talk and actually try to find scum?

This is such a lazy comment. Not only is the delivery clunky, it's as if he hadn't read anything Muffin said except his last comment.

In post 3411, Nachomamma8 wrote:6. Faster Than Light (Varsoon + Metal Sonic) - Town, shouldn't take explanation.

Can you indulge me anyway?

In post 3424, Faster Than Light wrote:What I'm getting at here, is that,
Is there a reason to the priority of the list, and if so, what are those reasons?

Why are you trying to get at this?

Desperado · Post Post #3535 (isolation #94) » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:13 am

In post 3441, Ghostlin wrote:
In post 3363, Desperado wrote:
In post 3283, Ghostlin wrote:Des (null/scum and falling): His entry and his entire work Day 2 is atrocious compared to Day 1. Seriously, dude, it's like you've not read the thread at all when you came back from your only 36 hour hiatus.
Dude,
what are you talking about?
What you're referring to as my "entry" into D2 was my 13th post of the day. Can you be more specific?
Your reentry after your 36 hour hiatus was exceedingly weak and poor, and not what I expected from someone who had been trying to keep up with the thread. It made me wince. In a game that's not having a lot that's making me fucking wince, that's pretty bad.

This is your idea of specific?

Muffin asked me who my suspects so I answered him. You took the absence of justification to mean there wasn't any and made up your own, as opposed to asking me why they were my suspects.

What did you expect?

Desperado · Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:19 am

In post 3468, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 3465, Venmar wrote:Bro's case on me is BS and fabricated in every way possible. He's probably being obtuse on purpose since anyone with a brain could read my interaction with RM as town.
you know when it's all said and done.
i'm probably gonna vote you until you're dead.

I don't get it Nacho. Venmar's disposition here and elsewhere is town as shit. Can you fill me in?

Desperado · Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:42 am

In post 3552, zMuffinMan wrote:(desperado in particular given i liked his d1 play but d2 he hasn't really looked like he is trying to figure things out)

What does it look like I'm doing then?

Desperado · Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:50 am

In post 3555, zMuffinMan wrote:i don't like the fact that prior to me asking for your reads, you were doing basically nothing. d1 i liked how you came in, gave your reads, put a vote down, etc. d2 prior to me prodding you about it, there was none of this. now you're posting, but i'm not seeing the same figuring-out-the-game stuff that i saw d1 in your approach to rm and the rest of the game. that bothers me.

Like I told mollie, I've been present when I've had computer access. /shrug

Desperado · Post Post #3664 (isolation #98) » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:02 am

In post 3661, Faster Than Light wrote:It's null to me. :/

Everyone who is championing so hard for FTL town needs to look at the way Varsoon handled this nick wagon and get your shit together.

Desperado · Post Post #3721 (isolation #99) » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:55 am

In post 3703, Ghostlin wrote:We should lynch this. It sounds like Des damn well knew the outcome of the lynch, and wanted to push the blame to FTL. Providing the mea culpa while riding the wagon to lynch ANYWAY.

This is completely nonsensical. How would I push the blame on FTL when he wanted nothing to do with the nick wagon?

Do you even know what I meant when I said that Varsoon's treatment of the nick wagon was scummy? Because this kinda makes it seem like you didn't.

This reeks of an FTL chainsaw.

Vote: Ghostlin

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:04 am

In post 3715, mastin2 wrote:VOTE: Mac.

This doesn't seem like you. What's your angle on Mac?

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:47 pm

I don't have to try again. Are you seriously trying to argue that FTL didn't do everything in its power to derail the nick lynch?

I could pull up quotes of Varsoon exclaiming his intention to do just that, but that would be pretty tedious.

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:02 pm

In post 3765, Ghostlin wrote:saying that FTL was avoiding Nick is kind of like saying that that hydra was maintaining abstinence by screwing everyone on the block. FTL spent pages talking about Nick and Mala's alignments relative to each other.

I never said he was avoiding nick?....

In post 3765, Ghostlin wrote:Then you are trying to construct the narrative that they wanted to stay off the Nick wagon, who flipped Town, because

No I'm not. You are. Quote me saying anything remotely like this?

In post 3765, Ghostlin wrote:1) If you legitimately believe that FTL was distancing the Nick wagon after the amount of crap and conjecture done it...no, I don't buy it.

Good thing I don't believe that.

In post 3765, Ghostlin wrote:2) If you thought FTL was scum pending the Nick flip being scum...alright, maybe, but it sounds passive aggressive. It would be saying the equivalent of me bussing Mala all game long.

Nope.

In post 3765, Ghostlin wrote:3) The best way to run with that post would be wait for Nick to flip Town, and then push FTL for trying to start a wagon on Nick. Or distancing from the Nick lynch because FTL knew they were Town. It could work fucking either way.

Awesome.

You went through a lot of work for nothing, considering that entire post was based on a faulty assumption.

The original quote of mine was in response to Varsoon saying that Nick's ultimate inability to provide a mala case was null, even though he had been begging him for it for days. It was essential to his gambit. And yet Nick renegs on the deal and it's null? No. Town Varsoon who actually gave a shit about the gambit he was trying to pull should have been livid that nick left us hanging for days only to not deliver anyway.

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:06 pm

This was the progression of Varsoon's nick read:

Scum, scum, scum, scum, WAIT HE'S REALLY COOL LET'S TRY THIS GAMBIT INSTEAD, nope he's town now hahaha

Also check out these three posts:

In post 3571, Faster Than Light wrote:Yeah.
What Nick has to say about Mala right now, on his L-1 deathbed, is priceless. Regardless of who we lynch today, it'll give a shitload of content to work with moving towards tomorrow.

-V

In post 3573, Faster Than Light wrote:Oh, no, if he doesn't deliver his Mala case before the deadline, I will hammer him.

-V

In post 3661, Faster Than Light wrote:It's null to me. :/

Bullshit.

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:06 pm

In post 3770, Ghostlin wrote:
In post 3768, Desperado wrote:The original quote of mine was in response to Varsoon saying that Nick's ultimate inability to provide a mala case was null, even though he had been begging him for it for days. It was essential to his gambit. And yet Nick renegs on the deal and it's null? No. Town Varsoon who actually gave a shit about the gambit he was trying to pull should have been livid that nick left us hanging for days only to not deliver anyway.
Yeah, you're full of shit. You based you're entire predicate on a REACTION TELL? Varshoon didn't shit himself and scream, hence he's scum?

Am I the only one aware how fucking weak that sounds?

Considering what he had said earlier? Yes, I'm basing it on a reaction tell.

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:13 pm

In post 3769, BROseidon wrote:And there was a pretty fucking strong push to get people off of Rach's wagon. Andy and Nick BOTH got counterwagoned.

So who were the scum pushing those counterwagons?

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:19 pm

In post 3776, Ghostlin wrote:He actually explains this three posts later. Since a really good Mala case might have saved his ass; it's against Nick's wincon to not post it (as scum, self preservation motivation), it's also against his motivation not to post it considering we could be looking at his case to ascertain and push Mala further if she is scum (as a Town motivation). I can understand, since FTL didn't...oh, wait, he did. Three fucking posts later. Not in as much detail, mind, but I can see what the fuck he's going for.

Yeah, I saw that. It explains why it's null, but it doesn't explain why he didn't follow through on what he said he would do if presented with the exact situation that actually happened. Instead he still held on to his dumb gambit that would require Nacho to claim for no reason and finally hammered him a couple days later.

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:23 pm

It's disingenuous.

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:34 pm

In post 3781, zMuffinMan wrote:hey desp,

your suspicion of ghost seems to be predicated on ftl being scum (correct me if im wrong) so why are you voting him and not ftl?

Too many of my townreads think FTL is town. I tried starting a wagon on them yesterday but no one bit and its more of the same today. Do you think I should be wasting my time trying to achieve a lynch that realistically isn't going to happen?

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:35 pm

In post 3782, Ghostlin wrote:No, seriously. I'm asking you try harder than 'Nacho and Nick wouldn't cooperate with FTL's gambit to the point Nacho said 'lol, no' and so FTL didn't shit themselves in disgust, hence FTL's scum, and Ghostlin's scum because he's
chainsaw
defending them.'

Nothing you have said has dispelled the almost strange mindset that Var brings to mafia games.

FTL is scum for a lot more than that. I guess it's just convenient for you to ignore that I've had them as scum for quite some time right now?

Desperado · Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:59 pm

In post 3789, zMuffinMan wrote:do you realistically think a ghost lynch is going to happen? it probably has less support than a ftl lynch.

I guess we're about to find out.

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:06 am

In post 3824, Trust Fund wrote:varsoon is just being his usual shitgambits self;

Hey look it's exactly what everyone said about Rach.

Pretty sure I could quote mine other people saying Varsoon is just being Varsoon too.

In post 3826, Faster Than Light wrote:End of D2, MS was scum-reading Nick and I was pulling back from that read due to the way his wagon was operating. I'm a bit understanding of BRO--without B&B's flip, I'd probably be pushing/pressuring B&B today.

Why? Your hammer post doesn't give any indication that you even remotely suspected mollie and Majiffy.

@ Mac: I'm confused by your vote. Ghostlin tries to scumpaint you and you threaten to vote him, but then vote me without any explanation? Even though I'm voting the guy you just threatened to vote...?

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:22 am

In post 3858, Mac wrote:
In post 3857, Desperado wrote:
@ Mac: I'm confused by your vote. Ghostlin tries to scumpaint you and you threaten to vote him, but then vote me without any explanation? Even though I'm voting the guy you just threatened to vote...?
I can't remember a single thing you have done. as for voting ghostlin, only because he said he'd rather people vote him over "obvtown mastin" which I'm not seeing at all and still wishing for someone to explain.

Maybe read my ISO or something? I'm not going to give you a greatest hits list but the notion that I "haven't done anything" is kind of insulting.

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:24 am

In post 3859, Faster Than Light wrote:
@Desperado : Try looking at my nearly two-dozen other posts where I am directly standing in opposition to B&B and saying that the blind sheeps of the Nick wagon are shitty and more time should be spent on the day. It's fairly obvious that I didn't agree at all with how B&B handled the Nick wagon.
If anything, my hammer is a conceit to Majiffy, as I was waiting for the inevitable Nick scum-flip and for Majiffy to gloat all goddamn day about it. Instead, Nick flips town and B&B dies overnight, so now I'm in this place where I have to analyze everything again and pressure out different players.

None of that actually means you thought they were scum though. You were just mad that Majiffy was being so loud and obnoxious.

I never got an indication yesterday that you thought mollie and Jiffy were scummy for what they were doing. Can you quote something for me?

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:26 am

Also, Mac: Mastin turnaround on you is really troubling, especially given how vague he was about his meta read on you earlier. I remember being put off by it in the moment and his behavior now makes it even worse.

Unvote
Vote: Mastin

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:34 am

Spoiler: Mastin's Mac Progression

In post 692, mastin2 wrote:I also think this is town-Mac, not scum-Mac. Broseidon's tripping my gut as scum for some odd reason, but he's solidly town via his words.

In post 718, mastin2 wrote:Mac iso:
Some specific posts may be a bit concerning, but overall, there's strong town posting present and I really don't think this is scuMac.

Malakittens iso:
She's not giving me warm fuzzy feelings. At all. This doesn't seem like the town-her that I've come to expect, like, at all. So again, bit of a scumread.

She replaced nhammen, who is next on my iso list. There's not much to really see, there. I can't really have anything definitive, other than a bit of a gut scumread with his overall approach.

Skull iso is basically empty, so nothing there at all. At this point with me not really having any really strong townreads, might be a scumread just by virtue of being a null-read.

In post 724, mastin2 wrote:
In post 721, Desperado wrote:Which posts? You flatly said all of my reads were weak, can you talk about the mac read more specifically and how it fits into your read?
168 is a bit concerning, as is 224. 245 isn't as bad and can also be town, but it can also be along a similar vein. 261 also makes me a bit nervous, but again can be scumhunting.

That's it. The rest I see as town. Those few posts to give doubt aren't enough to overcome the overall picture. My memory of a scuMac might not be as good as with others, but this. just. doesn't. feel. like. what I remember. to be. scuMac. It feels like his town self. Combined with the town posting, and I really don't get the scumread on him.

In post 729, mastin2 wrote:
In post 726, Desperado wrote:
In post 724, mastin2 wrote:My memory of a scuMac might not be as good as with others, but this. just. doesn't. feel. like. what I remember. to be. scuMac. It feels like his town self.
What do you remember scuMac to be? Do you disagree with the meta I provided?
Not this? And Maybe? I'll admit it, Mac's not a player I find easy to remember in my games, because Mac typically isn't someone I have much focus on. (Akin to Zdenek, in that he's someone I play with a lot, but is not very memorable. I remember playing with Mac and the generalities, but not the specifics.) But again. I just don't think this is scum-Mac. If you absolutely must, call it gut. (It aint gut. ) I'll do my homework later to determine for surez, but I just. don't. see. a. scuMac.

In post 966, mastin2 wrote:Mac is a townread because most of my scumreads are pushing for his mislynch. No, but seriously; Mac's town because Mac's posting has been town and I have a VERY strong Gut townread on Mac to go along with it. The only reason he's not higher up is because this is admittedly not backed up by meta and I have yet to research that.

In post 2777, mastin2 wrote:Know what? Why do later what I can do now? Starting with the townreads, Trust Fund and below.

MacI continue to believe this is Mac's town posting. Yes, admittedly, I am not the player most familiar with Mac. But everything I'm seeing points to Mac being town. I have a
very
strong gut feeling that this is town-Mac, and not scuMac. Beyond the gut read which I haven't bothered to back up with meta, though,
read his posts
.

Each post, while not exactly being very solid, contributes small nuggets that are incredibly helpful, showing great insight. They have the air of trying to figure things out around them, and other than one or two spots which're questionable, they all read as town. Basically, Mac is a lesser version of Aj the Epic. And I do mean lesser, since Mac is near the bottom of my town-list. I
could
be wrong, but I really,
really
don't think I am.

In post 3437, mastin2 wrote:
In post 175, borkjerfkin wrote:[9] TiphaineDeath (Venmar, zMuffinMan, nickthename, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mac, Ghostlin, Faster Than Light, Trust Fund, [nhammen/Malakittens])
For the record, people seem to forget that nhammen supported this wagon but critically, avoided joining it.

And since it's been brought up:
Venmar, BeautyAndTheBeast, Ghostlin, and FTL (in no particular order) are definitely not scum, with Trust Fund and zMuffinMan both similarly being eliminated.

That leaves {nick, Mac, nhammen/Malakittens} left. If there's scum on the wagon, it's in those names. (Which, again, is a good piece of evidence for lynching Malakittens.)

In post 3376, mastin2 wrote:Venmar: I'm willing to listen to you about a potential scuMac (especially given the defense of Malakittens), but I don't think that Mac's a realistic lynch candidate for today. Talk to me tomorrow about it, and we'll see.

Mac appears in every single one of Mastin's town lists up to 2777. Then suddenly Mastin is willing to listen to Venmar about scumMac, "mainly because of the mala defense" and his treatment of nick's wagon. There's very little substance to the read change when you consider how strongly he supported town mac on day 1.

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:36 am

In post 3865, Faster Than Light wrote:@Desp: Just ISO me, I'm not running your books for you,

No. I'm telling you that I do not recall what you are saying. I don't think you ever legitimately treated B&TB as scummy yesterday. Can you prove me wrong?

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:06 am

Varsoon, I'm not seeing it. For example, this post:

In post 3407, Faster Than Light wrote:We have 7 days. Let's fucking use them.

You know what makes me uncomfortable? B&B calls out 10 players on SRN but not voting him. Players then can all just hop on the wagon without having ARTICULATION for WHY, and if it turns out in a scum lynch, yattai, town points all around, but if it's a mislynch,
they get to all just hide behind either pointing fingers at B&B or the smoke-screen that B&B allowed for scum to hide in that wagon.

The way it was growing, and the hydra dissonance about it, and just about everything I've pointed out, it doesn't sit right with me.

-V

Is pretty blatant talking about B&TB like they are town. Particularly the bolded.

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:08 am

In post 3871, zMuffinMan wrote:
desp wrote:Mastin's Mac Progression
this doesn't really say much, except that he changed his mind.

you could probably find the same sort of thing for my read progression on a lot of players. pretty sure i've flip-flopped on a majority of players in this game at some point. there's probably very little "substance" to my read changes, except that i changed my mind for one reason or another, even if i didn't state why.

I think it says a lot actually. Mastin never went any further than "I feel REALLY REALLY STRONGLY that this is TownMac." Even though he reiterated the gut read probably a half a dozen times, and admitted that he had to do meta research, he was convinced that it wasn't scum mac.

Then Mac is a possibility with little to no indication given as to why.

Then he naked votes Mac.

You don't see an issue with this?

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:10 am

In post 3870, Faster Than Light wrote:
In post 3868, Mac wrote:
In post 3865, Faster Than Light wrote:
In post 3860, Mac wrote:varsoon you missed the question where i asked if you mapped out how your gambit worked anywhere?
Revealing it is actually pretty anti-town at this point.

Take my word for it. I might talk about it after I die, but not right now.

@Desp: Just ISO me, I'm not running your books for you,
how is talking about it after you die going to help us?

Mac, I know a handful of people's roles, mine included. Revealing them is more helpful to scum than to town.

Bullshit.

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:21 am

In post 3727, Desperado wrote:
In post 3715, mastin2 wrote:VOTE: Mac.
This doesn't seem like you. What's your angle on Mac?

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:57 am

Unvote

Why isn't she?

Desperado · Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:06 am

In post 3889, mastin2 wrote:
In post 3887, Desperado wrote:
Unvote

Why isn't she?
POE, lack of towniness, back interactions, basically, the stuff in my iso and all the other various cases against her.

Oh. I figured after you and Vars failed to get a wagon on her yesterday you might be bringing something new to the table.

Desperado · Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:25 am

In post 3936, BROseidon wrote:NS you are the worst.

Also, muffin and mastin, you are scumreading both me and Mala. You would have to conclude that I've been hard-bussing the slot all game. Is this correct, and would you still push for me tomorrow if Mala flips scum?

I hate this argument. Scum reads are not required to work together. That you're using it to defend

yourself

leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

In post 3942, TiphaineDeath wrote:I am liking ghostlin and muffin less and less.

I understand Ghostlin but what are you seeing with muffin? His opening about the mala/nick wagons was town as fuck.

In post 3947, mastin2 wrote:Also a point in your favor is the fact that people who have scumread you are living longer than they should. (Such as me.)

Side-note, but I just remembered: mollie knows Nacho. She knows Nacho just as well as fferyllt does, if memory serves me. (Or maybe better. Idunno. mollie and ffery can argue in the dead QT I guess over the subject. ) And she died N2.

If, as I suspect, Nacho's the one spearheading the kills, I will say once more that he's killing people he knows will figure him out sooner rather than later. That'd certainly explain why people who by all rights should be dead (such as myself) have lived for so long: because Nacho needed to take out the players who he knows can read him better, roles be damned.

In post 3948, mastin2 wrote:Put another way--

Kill one person intimately familiar with Nacho, could be coincidence.
Kill two people intimately familiar with Nacho, almost certainly by design.

Regardless of Malakittens's flip (which I'm 95% certain is a scum-flip), Nacho is also scum and should be tomorrow's lynch. Especially if someone else familiar with him (e.g., me ) dies.

This analysis seems really shallow for you Mastin. Nacho has reason to be afraid of fferry and mollie, they are dead, ergo Nacho is scum? The hole in this logic is wide enough to push a car through.

In post 3952, Malakittens wrote:Just lynch me. I'm a liability in LyLo anyways (if I were to make it that far) since I'm mislynch bait for scum.

I readily admit that I can't read Mala, and this sorry-sack routine that she's been putting on the majority of the game is throwing me off even more. I can't parse the level of resignation as put-on or genuine.

Desperado · Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:56 am

In post 3963, BROseidon wrote:
In post 3959, Desperado wrote:I hate this argument. Scum reads are not required to work together. That you're using it to defend yourself leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
...why does it leave a bad taste in your mouth that I think that it's fucking dumb not to consider how your reads work together. Seriously, scum don't fucking exist in a vacuum. Why are you adverse to using that fact to scumhunt?

Because you are making a conditional statement (If Mala is scum, I am not) and then applying the statement in a way to make you appear to be town without satisfying the condition first. It's really underhanded.

And scum don't exist in a vacuum, but what constitutes scum-scum interaction and how associative tells actually work are just about the most subjective aspect of mafia in my opinion, and the argument that because you've been FOSing Mala since day one, you couldn't possibly be scum together, does not align with my perspective. Do you honestly believe that a Mala scum flip would clear you as town?

In post 3972, Ghostlin wrote:
In post 3964, notscience wrote:Mala should stop ATEing ;-;

In post 3960, TiphaineDeath wrote:mala nuuuuuuuuuuuu!
What is it about confirmed Townies and this game?

Guys, you could be fucking running the place. You could be making scum very sorry you're alive. Right now, you're making me sad that voting you isn't a fucking option.

Mala's AtE is null, particularly a 'Town doesn't want me in LYLO' bit.

In post 3974, Ghostlin wrote:And before anyone goes 'why would I want to make scum sorry I'm alive, Ghostlin? I'll get shot.'

You're. Confirmed. Fucking. Town. Getting shot is your goddamn job, along with rooting out the scum.

Nine fucking people aren't voting. You better have reasons why right the goddamn now.

In post 3975, Ghostlin wrote:IT'S ONLY DAY FUCKING THREE, WE SHOULDN'T BE FEELING APATHY NOW!

You just obliterated my read on you.

@ NS: Duh. Join me on this

Vote: FTL

Desperado · Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:44 am

Desperado · Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:33 pm

Scum.

Desperado · Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:38 pm

In post 4005, notscience wrote:Ah, okay.

What do you think of my RachMeta bit?

I don't think it's reliable. IIRC when it was brought up originally someone provided some counter examples. I certainly wouldn't trust it enough to draw any conclusions from it.

Desperado · Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:51 pm

It's been basically nonstop since she replaced in and she seems pretty committed to it at this point. I'd compromise on her if necessary but if she's scum she has 0 credibility with the town and is basically a non-factor at this point--FTL and Bro are both better votes.

Desperado · Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:12 am

In post 4040, mastin2 wrote:Focus, Mastin, focus. We can't lynch this today, tempting as it is. We'll have to wait 'til D5.

For the record--this is not what I remember of a town-Mala being mislynched. Granted, I don't have much experience with a town-Malakittens being mislynched (Mind-reader Mafia is the only one to come to mind, and I don't really remember it all too well), but I distinctly recall that a town-Mala being mislynched puts in :effort: which I am entirely lacking in seeing from her. Yeah, she'll have AtE as well, but she gives a much greater fight than what I've been seeing from her.

What was scum Mala's plan here? She's been a helpless damsel since she replaced in, and her AtE and lack of effort have both only intensified since getting called out on it. She doesn't seem interested in doing anything to work against her death.

In post 4041, BROseidon wrote:
In post 4000, Desperado wrote:Because you are making a conditional statement (If Mala is scum, I am not) and then applying the statement in a way to make you appear to be town without satisfying the condition first. It's really underhanded.

And scum don't exist in a vacuum, but what constitutes scum-scum interaction and how associative tells actually work are just about the most subjective aspect of mafia in my opinion, and the argument that because you've been FOSing Mala since day one, you couldn't possibly be scum together, does not align with my perspective. Do you honestly believe that a Mala scum flip would clear you as town?
Re the first paragraph:

In post 3936, BROseidon wrote:Also, muffin and mastin, you are scumreading both me and Mala.
You would have to conclude that I've been hard-bussing the slot all game.
Is this correct, and would you still push for me tomorrow if Mala flips scum?
This is not a defense. This is me trying to gauge where other people stand (also, this wasn't addressed to you and you felt compelled to respond to it. Why?). That you paint this as me defending myself when, at best, it's an incredibly indirect defense, compared to the insane amount of actual defense I have done over the past two days is extremely scummy.

Second, this entire game is subjective. I'm not saying, "OMG I SCUMREAD MALA EARLY THEREFORE CAN'T BE SCUM TOGETHER." What I'm
asking
is "does this look like S/S interaction to you."

A Mala scumflip only clears me as town if enough people think that it wasn't a S/S interaction. I'm not going to argue more than that.

The tone of the bolded sentence is clearly meant to imply a defense, i.e. "how could you possibly be so stupid as to conclude that I've been hardbussing the slot all game?" Sugar coating it with the sentence that follows doesn't change the fact that you are steering muffin and mastin towards one conclusion based on the alignment of an unflipped player.

In post 4047, mastin2 wrote:
Mod: if an X-shot role is roleblocked, is their shot refunded?

Wayne, you should check to make sure your shot was used up. I'm running through the possibilities, between roleblocker (a fairly likely scum role in the game), *OTHERS REDACTED*, but needless to say, aside from the roleblocker possibility, none of these bode well for Aj at all.
(Oh, and even in the case of a roleblocker, still not great. )

In post 4050, BROseidon wrote:Mastin, why would wayne being blocked bode poorly for AJ?

I'm wondering the same thing.

Spoiler: Varsoon scumming it up

Town-Varsoon has no reason to be pursuing any of this.

In post 4074, Aj The Epic wrote:
In post 4033, waynegg wrote:AJ ~
Just two questions.

What's your definition of "to incriminate"?

Why were you bulletproof N2?
I personally prefer lexical definitions, and as such: To make one appear guilty of a specific crime.

Considering that there's about no chance of you being scum, I mine as well just claim. I'm a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit. I wanted to remove any ambiguity because I had/have strong reasons to believe a traitor exists in this game and my role's job was to add a counterbalance to it. Not only do I have a strong reason to suspect much, but this is generally the key reason a bullet proof townie is added in (I can point a few games I was in recently with the same role).

Unfortunately, I received no notification to recognize anyone having removed this from me. I can, however, show a trail of crumbs I left to try to get this removed and how it has affected my logical progression through the game.

Why does BP = Traitor?

In post 4083, BROseidon wrote:
In post 4077, mastin2 wrote:Well, there's a minor logical jump involved. If wayne's slot was blocked, then they were blocked for a reason. If they were blocked for a reason, then it's typically because they had a reason to be blocked. One reason to block a claimed 1-shot vig who's taken a shot is that you fear scum will be hit and the vig was lying about being 1-shot.
Except I ISO'd Mutt to see if he left any indication of who he'd have targeted next. I found nothing. He spent all of day two with "I SHOT MY WHOLE LOAD ON SAKI LAWL."

So why would scum be afraid of him hitting again if 1) He'd claimed 1-shot and 2) There was no indication of who he'd target next if he were lying, and would thus be more likely to hit town than scum.

My thoughts exactly. Hey Mastin, why did you ignore this in 4116?

In post 4088, Nachomamma8 wrote:TOWN:
notscience
waynegg
Faster Than Light
Ghostlin
Mac
mastin2
Muffin

Lean town:
Andrius
Trust Fund
AJ
Venmar?
BROseidon

LEFTOVERS:
Malakittens
TiphaineDeath

These are my reads. Towngroup is obviously the strongest.
Mastin, why is Venmar town?

What am I, chopped liver? And how was what TF said wildly different?

Desperado · Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:42 am

In post 4124, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 4118, Desperado wrote:And how was what TF said wildly different?
Hmmm?

Trust fund said this is just Varsoon being Varsoon, which is basically what the Rach defense amounted to D1. You said they were wildly different but I'm not seeing it.

In post 4128, mastin2 wrote:Simple: survive, and try not to give away her scumbuddies.

Counterpoint: what the HECK is a town-Mala doing giving this game the treatment she has? This AtE and lack of effort make no sense from the town-her, who would be trying desperately to figure it all out and leave something meaningful. I haven't seen that at all. All I've seen is AtE which looks like play to survive just a little bit longer.

If she had claimed VT I probably would have argued with you, but her PR claim is just terribawful.

Vote: Mala

Desperado · Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:43 am

Desperado · Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:54 am

In post 4203, Malakittens wrote:....

Hey at least this time you didn't derp hammer a PR. I would have called you scum for that because there's no reason to hammer a pr w/o waiting for a claim if you are town, Despo.

???

Desperado · Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:11 am

In post 4210, Malakittens wrote:
In post 4208, Desperado wrote:
In post 4203, Malakittens wrote:....

Hey at least this time you didn't derp hammer a PR. I would have called you scum for that because there's no reason to hammer a pr w/o waiting for a claim if you are town, Despo.
???
Castle? Where you quick hammered huntress before waiting for her to claim or even post intent.

Right, but what does that have to do with this game?

PS It's not a derp hammer if I'm scum. That hammer won us the game.

Desperado · Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:41 am

I don't normally do this, but this video perfectly summarizes my feelings after catching up:

In post 4377, Faster Than Light wrote:That said, I'm on board for giving a bit of a closer look at Nacho, Desperado, BRO, and AJ. I feel like they've kinda slipped by until today despite doing some questionable things. I feel that Nacho is the most town out of the group, but that he's also most experienced, so that may be due to his play being that good.

In post 4382, Faster Than Light wrote:@Bro: Read earlier where I say I don't suspect you nearly as much as I do AJ, Desp, and to a lesser extent, Nacho. Those three are much more suspicious to me. You've been a fairly consistent town-read of mine all game. I'm willing to look at you in-tandem with zMuffin and others in order to come to a consensus on your alignment, but that's not my top priority right now.

Varsoon has no fucking idea what is going on right now and he's talking so much that he can't keep his story straight. It would probably take me a week to sort through everything that is wrong with Varsoon's opening to today.

Can we

please

lynch him now?!?!

Vote: FTL

Desperado · Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:32 am

In post 4389, Faster Than Light wrote:@Desperado: Figured you'd be at my throat again. What's your issue with my posts? Because, as I see it, the ones you quoted actually answer each other.

No they don't. Your first response says Nacho is your biggest townread of the four. Later you say that Bro is the towniest. How do they answer each other?

Desperado · Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:51 am

Come on over here and vote FTL then, Andy.

Desperado · Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:29 pm

In post 4463, Aj The Epic wrote:I dislike "full claims" because of the possibility of infringing on mod ruling. That said, I am Fei Fong Wong, bullet proof townie AKA Reincarnated Contact. My role gives good reason for me to believe that a traitor exists in this game.

Earlier you argued that BP = traitor because setup balance, but now you're saying you got role related info that a traitor exists. Which is it?

Desperado · Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:17 am

What's funny about it? I think my lack of expressed interest in the Nacho wagon is a pretty clear indication of my feeling on it.

Desperado · Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:45 am

AJ:

In post 4467, Desperado wrote:
In post 4463, Aj The Epic wrote:I dislike "full claims" because of the possibility of infringing on mod ruling. That said, I am Fei Fong Wong, bullet proof townie AKA Reincarnated Contact. My role gives good reason for me to believe that a traitor exists in this game.
Earlier you argued that BP = traitor because setup balance, but now you're saying you got role related info that a traitor exists. Which is it?

Desperado · Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:31 am

In post 4533, Nachomamma8 wrote:desperado didn't respond to my request for him to claim; i'm guessing he just didn't read the game.

bingo

I'm VT. I haven't talked about your wagon because it doesn't interest me and you promised content, so either you provide it and everyone understands that you are town or you don't, in which case there's nothing I can really do to help you.

@ Muffin: I still don't see what's funny. I saw a comment directed at me that was clearly designed to elicit a response re: Nacho's wagon, so I provided one.

Desperado · Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:15 am

I think muffin was using interfere and affect interchangeably.

In post 4512, Aj The Epic wrote:Desp, I've always been trying to hint that I knew, but I was worried about infringing on any claiming rules and so I merely alluded to it as a possibility. I don't claim often (actually, almost never) so I'm out of touch with what's acceptable.

If Wayne hadn't claimed his shot on you, how had you planned on approaching your role?

Desperado · Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:26 am

Unvote
Vote: AJ

Not lynching Nacho and don't understand AJ's thought process re: BP = traitor.

Desperado · Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:03 am

In post 4787, BROseidon wrote:Also where the fuck is everybody?

Work :/

In post 4765, Trust Fund wrote:
In post 4748, Faster Than Light wrote:maybe TF + Andy is the scum

yes that look possible from the back-and-forth just the page before

also it is cool that the scum love shooting VTs isnt that great
^Like right here on the same fucking page you JUST SAID Andy and I are the remaining team.

FTL has been doing this

all game

but no one is interested in lynching him for some reason.

In post 4757, waynegg wrote:
In post 4756, Trust Fund wrote:Leftovers (2 scum be here)
2. Andrius
4. BROseidon
5. Desperado
7. Ghostlin
10. Nachomamma8
Checking the stars, running numerology...

AJ was slot one so eliminate Andy

Mala was scum in twelve, so eliminate Nacho

4. BROseidon
5. Desperado
6. FTL
7. Ghostlin
18. TiphaneDeath

What do you think?

Is this a joke that's going over my head?

Vote: Bro

Another reason FTL is scum btw: scum keep killing VTs despite claimed PRs alive. Why? So Varsoon can keep pushing his BS "There are too many town PRs!" line that didn't make any sense and was extremely awkwardly put forth yesterday. 5+ conftown alive and the scum kill an unclaimed (and one of their only remaining ML opportunities)? There must be an ulterior motive.

Desperado · Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:55 am

In post 4863, Faster Than Light wrote:
In post 4747, Faster Than Light wrote:
In post 4710, Trust Fund wrote:Shit tier annie player, at your service.
I am above average tier annie player

I also play shaco

i am willing to get andy lynched because

1. he can crush scumz if town
2. he was sidetracking from the aj-scumwagon as scum
3. he cant read nacho ;-;

buttttt

if andy is town and nacho is town both die

if andy is scumz and nacho is town then good

if andy is town and nacho is scumz then good

mmm

but nacho reads andy as town

i read nacho as town

oh dear

as long as nacho gives the word to vote andy i will join wagon

but meanwhile lets wonder who is scum

this is what i meant

nacho counterwagon to ajscum is probably not scum but if scum can be determined by Andy's magic powers

actually

whoever was on the nacho wagon needs to be looked at ----> counterwagon to ajscum

I'm pretty sure it was the other way around, with AJ being the counterwagon to Nacho. Let's see:

Spoiler: Nacho and AJ wagons yesterday

In post 4375, borkjerfkin wrote:
Votecount 4.1

[4] Nachomamma8 (Trust Fund, zMuffinMan, Ghostlin, TiphaineDeath)
[2] Aj The Epic (waynegg, Nachomamma8)
[1] Antihero (notscience)
[1] Faster Than Light (Mac)

[6] Not Voting (Aj The Epic, Andrius, BROseidon, Desperado, Antihero, Faster Than Light)

With 14 alive, it is 8 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-06 23:00:00)

In post 4475, borkjerfkin wrote:
Votecount 4.2

[6] Nachomamma8 (Trust Fund, zMuffinMan, Ghostlin, TiphaineDeath, Andrius, Mac)
[3] Aj The Epic (waynegg, Nachomamma8, Faster Than Light)
[1] Antihero (notscience)
[1] Faster Than Light (Desperado)

[3] Not Voting (Aj The Epic, BROseidon, Antihero)

With 14 alive, it is 8 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-06 23:00:00)

In post 4575, borkjerfkin wrote:
Votecount 4.4

[6] Nachomamma8 (zMuffinMan, Ghostlin, TiphaineDeath, Andrius, Mac, waynegg)
[2] Aj The Epic (Nachomamma8, Faster Than Light)
[1] Antihero (notscience)
[1] Faster Than Light (Desperado)

[4] Not Voting (Aj The Epic, BROseidon, Antihero, Trust Fund)

With 14 alive, it is 8 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-06 23:00:00)

TiphaineDeath was prodded.

In post 4635, borkjerfkin wrote:
Votecount 4.5

[5] Nachomamma8 (zMuffinMan, Ghostlin, TiphaineDeath, Andrius, Mac)
[4] Aj The Epic (Nachomamma8, Faster Than Light, Desperado, waynegg)
[1] Antihero (notscience)

[4] Not Voting (Aj The Epic, BROseidon, Antihero, Trust Fund)

With 14 alive, it is 8 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-06 23:00:00)

Antihero was prodded. (Mac and Trust Fund are V/LA)

In post 4661, borkjerfkin wrote:
Votecount 4.6

[7] Aj The Epic (Nachomamma8, Faster Than Light, Desperado, waynegg, Mac, notscience, BROseidon)
[4] Nachomamma8 (zMuffinMan, Ghostlin, TiphaineDeath, Andrius)

[3] Not Voting (Aj The Epic, Antihero, Trust Fund)

With 14 alive, it is 8 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-06 23:00:00)

Metal Sonic is V/LA
Aj The Epic and Desperado were prodded.

In post 4671, borkjerfkin wrote:
Votecount 4.7 (Final)

[8] Aj The Epic (Nachomamma8, Faster Than Light, Desperado, waynegg, Mac, notscience, BROseidon, Trust Fund)

[4] Nachomamma8 (zMuffinMan, Ghostlin, TiphaineDeath, Andrius)

[2] Not Voting (Aj The Epic, Antihero)

With 14 alive, it is 8 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

A lynch has been reached! Scene coming when I've got the time to get it up but might not be for a few hours.

Yup, sure was. How does this effect your interpretation?

Desperado · Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:35 am

Andy I claimed VT yesterday

Desperado · Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:12 am

In post 5037, BROseidon wrote:On the one hand, I want to lynch Desp because he's trying to lurk away pressure.

On the other hand, I feel like town-Nacho would have seen this by now.

Can everyone not on one of me/Desp/Nacho get on a viable wagon so we can just end this day already. I'm sick of having to deal with scumcho and with scumDesp being allowed to coast.

Try as hard as you might there was never a viable scenario where the three of us aren't getting lynched before this game is over. I'm just playing out the string.

Desperado · Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:46 am

Realistic understanding of the gamestate = scum confession?

Desperado · Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:26 am

Unvote
Vote: Desperado

Desperado · Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:47 am

Town earned a scummie if you pretend Tiphaine doesn't exist.

Well done