Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Titus]

Mama Bear is here! Lots of warmth and murder going around.

[Titus]

Hi Titus and Galron

Titus the TLDR is D1 is a cluster f.

Town managed to push both masons at the same time and maybe a vig.

My mason partner died and I have a PoE of would like to elim and pushes have gone no where
For the past two IRL days I am not a hyperposter

I am kinda thinking either your slot is scum or we have power wolves
Because if you’re town no wagon got above 3 people on it that could be scum on all D1.

So help?

*typey type worky work stuffs*

Tell me you think town's incompetent without saying town's incompetent.


The more April goes into professor mode, the more I want to yeet him.

Time to read to see if that's my mood.

[Titus]

Sounds like you are tilted that you think I am playing “objectively worse” than you because I don’t write tons of logic and switch a lot, yet you’re the one getting wagoned

Yuck

[Titus]

*sees inanity of page 1*

*bolts to VCs*

[Titus]

Using a quick view of the VCs, I would look at Datisi and fua closer. Not superb reasoning but developing reads on those two would give reads on the whole.

My current theory is that scum were sheeping people to punish controversy and just placing easy votes. While it's possible, it's rare for scum to be aggressive when they don't need to be.

Math's prior poster likely provoked a scum vote or two not because of his opinions but what he was saying. Such callousness would make me want to vote him out if he wasn't a mason.

[Titus]

That moment when I FoS myself lol

[Titus]

Sounds like you are tilted that you think I am playing “objectively worse” than you because I don’t write tons of logic and switch a lot, yet you’re the one getting wagoned

Yuck

What is wrong with my statement? Are you just saying this because you are a very facts and logic based player?

Nope. My gut says it's because you know April's town. Like why would you jump to him being tilted? Second, professor style tones are rarely tilted. If April was tilted, I'd expect more contempt from the words he's typing.

[Titus]

*sees inanity of page 1*

*bolts to VCs*

*sees inanity of page 1*

*bolts to VCs*

Why even read page one we all knew you were just gonna do that anyway

Yeah it's potentially a LAMIST statement to make with a built in excuse to not share thoughts.

I think luminary suggested the first 60 pages and then skipping to when April becomes active which I'd like because Titus' slot is one I really need to sort.

An alternative approach, not really reading at all and providing fresh reads as they come, could be helpful for scum hunting but would be more difficult for us to read Titus' slot itself.

Ooh fresh meat.

I'm not an easy player to read. I just think differently. I feel I'm pretty transparent but I'm the only one who feels this way.

I try to read people by what they do as opposed to what they say. I care more about why than the what. So early pregame RVS generally makes my eyes bleed. Occasionally I do try, but that try is legit NAI.

[Titus]

Using a quick view of the VCs, I would look at Datisi and fua closer. Not superb reasoning but developing reads on those two would give reads on the whole.

My current theory is that scum were sheeping people to punish controversy and just placing easy votes. While it's possible, it's rare for scum to be aggressive when they don't need to be.

Math's prior poster likely provoked a scum vote or two not because of his opinions but what he was saying. Such callousness would make me want to vote him out if he wasn't a mason.

Can you explain why your analysis is implicating Datisi and fua?

Also does your method of VCA become more helpful the more slots are flipped?

They're major wagons at various gamestates. Knowing the options scum have suggests where they might want to be on the wagon.

Absolutely yes. I'm using it now to just get feet wet. The more we know about options, the more we can tell about an agenda.

For instance, assuming Math is a mason, then why would scum shoot monkey over Math? What does that say? Votes can and do tell a similar story.

[Titus]

scum do post during RVS so it's possible to find scum during "RVS"

can we kill VP now?

I didn't get a staunch read either way yet. Why?

[Titus]

one is a CLAIMED VIG

Wait what? I never claimed vig.

[Titus]

assuming Math is a mason

then why would scum shoot monkey over Math?

its Math...

I didn't get a staunch read either way yet. Why?

So you read him? If so why did you not talk about him. If your post wasn't about VP then I have no clue what you are on about.

I have no reads yet. I was hoping your answer would narrow things down.

Second, Math is capable of being competent Nero. Logically monkey dying over Math fypov suggests that money has better reads, scum used a strongman, or monkey can better rally people or a combination. Answering this helps us.

[Titus]

Okay so you think Datisi and fua seem scummy because they were viable mislim targets who weren't being pushed very much?

No direct opinion aside from mech. I know Datisi's town and Enchant is very unlikely group scum and probably town. Could they have been acting scummy? Sure. However, given we had at least three non group scum wagoned most likely, scum are either the aggressors or merely sheeping the wagons that are on town and isolating those who are correct.

[Titus]

VOTE: Nero

Basics. Scum flooding the game to hide and make it impossible to case.

I’m just looking at wagons and votes.

Based on the VP wagon I can see a possible scum Deas as well..

Ok.

VOTE: Scorpious

I just looked at the four highest posters.

First is Nero. Ok maybe.
Second by 7 posts is VP.
Then Math.
Then Datisi.

Datisi by definition cannot be spamming to block out cases.
Math isn't spamming to block out cases
VP wouldn't be spamming to freeze the gamestate.
Nero, while being the most active poster, hasn't spammed since I've been here.

That position is just utterly divorced from reality.

[Titus]

I do. Scorpious struggles with content as scum and gets protected because he's adorable. He still wound up dying eventually but we won that game.

[Titus]

Mini Theme 2255 | UPick a Normal | Endgame

That's the game.

[Titus]

I do. Scorpious struggles with content as scum and gets protected because he's adorable. He still wound up dying eventually but we won that game.

He has not been adorable this game and I've provided several reasons I think he is town based on game actions. I do not blame you as much as you probably have not read my posts to that effect, but it really feels like we have scum on the ropes right now so I'm pretty sus of the motives of these sudden votes on not just a lurker, when we have some actually legit leads to pursue, but the towniest lurker.

*lasers lock on*

This is the exact type of post I would make if I was protecting Scorpious this game.

I'm going to still analyze the other options though to not tunnel.

[Titus]

I am protecting him, yes. I have been very transparent about that!

Regardless of your alignment, you're refreshing. Straightforward take it or leave it while respecting my right to do the same. Why are VP and Malcolm scum?

Are they teamed?

[Titus]

I do. Scorpious struggles with content as scum and gets protected because he's adorable. He still wound up dying eventually but we won that game.

He has not been adorable this game and I've provided several reasons I think he is town based on game actions. I do not blame you as much as you probably have not read my posts to that effect, but it really feels like we have scum on the ropes right now so I'm pretty sus of the motives of these sudden votes on not just a lurker, when we have some actually legit leads to pursue, but the towniest lurker.

*lasers lock on*

This is the exact type of post I would make if I was protecting Scorpious this game.

I'm going to still analyze the other options though to not tunnel.

Help me…I am scared we agree?

Well I did that without reading and provided a citation so if you feel paranoid *shrug*

[Titus]

Deas and Fire have made some strong points about how VP's stated beliefs do not match up well with his actions. He is, in my opinion, also flailing and lashing out in response to pressure.

I am not as sure Malcolm is scum, but April has provided some reasons. He is hard to read and takes refuge in logic.

Both of them have responded to pressure by complaining there is no case, which I feel is scummy.

I'll look at this tomorrow at the latest.

[Titus]

Happy birthday VP!

[Titus]

Oh jesus that "decently likely" thing? That was such weak shit. I'm actually laughing irl that that's your brilliant case.

I won't deny that I am absolutely arguing in bad faith here. You're scum and others need to see it.

Yeah, if town, you're very bad at this game, but I keep trying, so...

Neg me harder.

This type of attitude from VP is annoying.

[Titus]

Yeet, why did your read change on VP?

[Titus]

I feel that VPB is a decent choice if testing the theory that scum are sheeping wagons. It's a valid theory to test given the rapid rise and fall of wagons. I feel Scorpious is a better elimination by play, but I'm not opposed to the VFB wagon. A lot of people have theorized on alignment's based on vfp's flip and I think that is helpful going forward, especially with a scumflip on VFB.

[Titus]

I feel like the social groups of this game are weird. The game has devolved into camps, which likely isn't good.

[Titus]

Where’s Galron?

Oh and if Scorpio is town then people would be climbing all over themselves to agree with me.

Kinda feeling Galron or Scorpio.

Quick count, but 10 players posted since your vote. About half of them are either voting Scorp or telegraphing they would do so (Cape, Eyes, Nero, Enchant).

Yet they don’t because…?

Usually when I am town and wrong the wagon happens.

But here it’s nothing. It is weird.

You tend to get resistence either way. Scum tend to cave sooner.

Here, wagoning anyone would get resistance.

VFB voters complain that any counter is because its right.
Malcom voters say ignored because scum.
People resist Scorpious because of LHF personality. Provoters say he's scum here.

No one's happy unless their choice goes through and we can't appease everyone.

[Titus]

Galron

has replaced

skitter30

and

Titus

has replaced

Datisi

.

VOTE: Galron

Maybe here? Skitter was in a lot of scum pools and Galron tends to be a lurker as scum.
It was a problem in Calculasia?

I think pursuing a new wagon is a bad idea. It does nothing to solve the divisions in the game.

[Titus]

I'm thinking VP but that's totally based on social dynamics. I'd like to review each ISO.

[Titus]

Happy birthday bro.

[Titus]

I'm thinking VP but that's totally based on social dynamics. I'd like to review each ISO.

this being a thing you hadn't done b/c?

Been busy with birthday celebrations.

[Titus]

Happy birthday bro.

Happy birthday sis!

Sorry you got stuck with a scum role PM.

You can put doubt in that by voting VP or helping me wagon Galron (A)

(Disclaimer: may or may not remove enough doubt)

Press X to doubt. You're MathBlade. I could have a guilty and you'd doubt me. I'll do my homework and then make the choice. I still prefer Scorpious but that's not happening and I don't think it will happen.

[Titus]

Why does VP have to be hammered to be town but not Malcom or Scorpious?

[Titus]

Can you give an example tene?

[Titus]

I really want to vote Malcom to spite you...

But

VOTE: VP

[Titus]

fire can you reevaluate that world but with Galron as town and tell me what that looks like?

like all of galron/vp/malc town? then scum are probably inactive and apathetic lol. maybe like deas eyes cape titus or something, idk

In that world, Nero is probably scum, not cape.

Nero isn't likely scum.

[Titus]

This just sounds like Math pride denying possible innos. I'm on and off in court all day but I'll check in when I can.

VOTE: Malcom

[Titus]

Would rather VP but that's sailed

[Titus]

So you think yeet softs some type of info they don't have to save a buddy going down, potentially tanking half great scum team? That's some wild ass play.

Pedit - @math

I agree with this. :/ Which is problematic for my VP read

[Titus]

Would rather VP but that's sailed

I don't see how you're town

Ok. Whatever.

[Titus]

This just sounds like Math pride denying possible innos. I'm on and off in court all day but I'll check in when I can.

VOTE: Malcom

Why the fuck are you competing with Boon and Vp and Galron for the scummiest play?

C’mon sis

Why are you agency captured? Voting innos is stupid. I don't have to read for that.

[Titus]

Would rather VP but that's sailed

I don't see how you're town

Ok. Whatever.

I don't see how you walk away from me trying to steer Math gently and then more directly away from this debacle with the notion that I'm the most likely scum here.

The two ideas are in conflict. It's not absolute but I just highlighted that. It's unlikely, but possible, you could be trying to get on Mathblade's good side.

I have a lot to do and no time to do it.

[Titus]

yeet doesn't have an inno on gal

That's literally what's just been said?

[Titus]

@Frogsterking,

Why not Malcom?

[Titus]

He is a bit. I worry about a noob elimination but not enough to no eliminate here.

[Titus]

We could flashwagon eyes.

[Titus]

My preference is Scorpious but that I feel has sailed. It might be too late for eyes too.

[Titus]

@all

If Malcolm flips town, who is the scum in the hood (if any?)

If Malcolm flips scum, who is the scum in the hood (if any?)

There's a hood? Who is in it?

[Titus]

My preference is Scorpious but that I feel has sailed. It might be too late for eyes too.

I would back a scorpious lim. It's low info, but also extremely low risk.

I'm concerned that if we jump that either a) we'll get a no elimination or b) Math will push an inno through.

[Titus]

she didn't even read the replacement info post i quoted for her ): im hurt

Sorry. I don't read back spots usually. Kinda my MO.

[Titus]

why are so many people screaming this game, seems a little sus

*tries to scream* can't.

No wonder. Y'all stole my voice.

[Titus]

The fact you’re arguing against a fucking mason who says the slot is town and has said so repeatedly should tell you this flips town

Town=/=correct.

Conftown are high targets for agency capture.

[Titus]

i forgot that masons are given a list of alignments along with their role pm, mb

I like you.

[Titus]

Protective roles stay on Math or else, btw.

I'd let a protective target elsewhere. #wifom

[Titus]

Tene, thoughts on wagons?

[Titus]

i forgot that masons are given a list of alignments along with their role pm, mb

I like you.

Titus and VP now both caught trying to pocket fire EoD FYI, switch wagons to VP.

It's pointless for them to do so.

Fire's cozy in my pocket.

Do we compete? Or do we collaborate and pocket everyone together?

I don't want to compete.

[Titus]

it will never work!! i am unpocketable!!! i am strongggg!!!

Spoiler:

this is 100% a lie. i am, unlike VP, very much a fool for charisma. but at least i know it

We have smiles and I'll bring us scum tmo if this fails.

[Titus]

VOTE: Malcolm

Don’t bother this is the best way to prove Boon scum

And that proves anything how?

[Titus]

VOTE: Malcolm

Don’t bother this is the best way to prove Boon scum

And that proves anything how?

Simple VCA and day play

Boon did anything g possible to avoid VP and Galron

I'm inclined to feel Galron might have been right on scum. Namely those that are right on scum are the ones getting pushed. If VP and April agreed on a scumread, then they are likely scum. I can't see us bumbling this bad without aggressive scum.

The problem is the belief that Math has been agency captured puts me in direct odds with him and I don't want that to become a clusterfuck.

[Titus]

My preference is Scorpious but that I feel has sailed. It might be too late for eyes too.

Fire, what do you think of these two?

[Titus]

VP, I need a bit to review what you wrote.

[Titus]

VP, I need a bit to review what you wrote.

Not a problem. It is a lot. I hate big cases like that, but it really stuck out in my notes, so I felt like this is a time I should wrote out all my thoughts.

Alright, I read most of your case. However, I don't expect all three of Nero/Frogster/Dragons to be scum. All three scum going in on an agency capture move is highly unlikely. Second, Nero is easily distractable and stubborn. He's not MathBlade levels of stubborn but still stubborn. A denial of a soft could come as much as pride rather than anything else. I don't see all three scum pushing a soft clear as they'd be boned if a flash wagon appeared. I'd look at people who pushed Galron exclusively as it was a sign they couldn't make content.

I do feel you cased DV the best in your post.

I don't like tene saying protect Math or else with an invest soft in the game.

Then there's scorpious and eyes.

The problem is I'm not left with an aggressive scum unless I am wrong somewhere.

[Titus]

I don't like tene saying protect Math or else with an invest soft in the game.

I regret this now. I will refrain from doing this in the future.

Are you an alt or new?

[Titus]

Smh.

Math, your reads are terrible. You're speculating about possibilities just to keep Galron as a suspect today. VP doesn't open like that as scum imo. He left citations, so almost everything he said is verifiable.

I don't think any of VP Galron or April are scum.

[Titus]

Question chain for Titus/April especially but anyone who wishes to answer: is my theorizing Scum have a traitor based on Yeet flip sound? If yes, would it be likely traitor + 1 scum in the hood?

This reminds me of my busted traitor game I had where I had a hood with one scum buddy and I was traitor.

This has that “feel”.

I figured by my last post, that I felt considering a traitor is garbage.

[Titus]

Why do you say VP doesn’t do citations as scum? Have you played with scum him?

It's not just a single cutation and not a meta argument. It's a gamestate one. The fact we are losing PRs like flies and only getting miseliminations is very demoralizing. It would be easy to phone it in rather than try hard. After all, scum haven't needed to do much. With you leading, they still don't.

[Titus]

Yeet

has been found dead. He was a

Town 3-Shot Psychologist

Yeet

You are a

Town 3-Shot Psychologist

Each day you may talk in the game thread and vote on who to eliminate.

Three times during the game you may visit a player at night to investigate their ability to kill. Assuming no interference, you will be informed "PLAYERNAME is capable of killing.", "PLAYERNAME is not capable of killing or has already killed.", or "You got no result from investigating PLAYERNAME." at the end of the night. Players capable of killing are members of the

Mafia

other than

Traitors

,

Serial Killers

and

Vigilantes

who have not yet killed

You win when all threats to the town are dead, and at least 1 town aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here, please confirm your role and alignment via pm.

….
Traitors is specifically in Yeet’s role PM

Odds of traitor or SK increase greatly.

Yes, the theoretical possibilities are mentioned. That doesn't mean all three. We arguably have Enchant as a vigilante. Many PMs mention possibilities. That's likely copied from the wiki.

Sure, there's possibilities but it's absolutely not worth considering until there are fewer players or evidence supports a traitor more than a wiki copy.

[Titus]

Why do you say VP doesn’t do citations as scum? Have you played with scum him?

It's not just a single cutation and not a meta argument. It's a gamestate one. The fact we are losing PRs like flies and only getting miseliminations is very demoralizing. It would be easy to phone it in rather than try hard. After all, scum haven't needed to do much. With you leading, they still don't.

Lmao that’s a joke.

I never have been able to lead

It’s everyone else saying I suck then taking over

That Galron wagon was your doing. :/

The VP pressure is your doing.

The April push is your doing.

Your suggesting things gives them credibility whether you feel that way or not.

[Titus]

And what do you make of me saying there is evidence of a traitor based on me having been in a traitor scum game recently and this has similar vibes? Is VP allowed to make a gamestate argument and not me?

I cited the comparison.

I am aware of you making the comparison but I don't see the relation at all. Maybe it'll bite me in the ass but I doubt it.

[Titus]

Why do you say VP doesn’t do citations as scum? Have you played with scum him?

It's not just a single cutation and not a meta argument. It's a gamestate one. The fact we are losing PRs like flies and only getting miseliminations is very demoralizing. It would be easy to phone it in rather than try hard. After all, scum haven't needed to do much. With you leading, they still don't.

Lmao that’s a joke.

I never have been able to lead

It’s everyone else saying I suck then taking over

That Galron wagon was your doing. :/

The VP pressure is your doing.

The April push is your doing.

Your suggesting things gives them credibility whether you feel that way or not.

And yet none of them have flipped and all of them are probably scum.

I fail to see the problem

The more you shade me rather than work with me the more I wanna vote you and be done with it.

I'm not shading you. I'm disagreeing with you. You're tunneling.

[Titus]

VOTE: Titus

Nope. I am done. You can’t just say VP is right because citations then say I am wrong without reason and say “it will bite you in the ass”.

His citations are likely right. Yours I see are wrong.

*shrug*

You can get into a pride match with me, or we can find scum together.

[Titus]

I gave you reasons. I told you why scum don't do what VP did. I felt his statements were largely accurate. I told you there's a likely clear on Galron. If there's a clear, he can't slip.

It's not "toxic" to disagree with you.

I already gave scumreads today and yesterday. There's plenty to engage on. Scorpious, eyes, DV, tend and one of Nero/Frogstar/Dragons. Weaker on tend and Nero.

[Titus]

Sure. There's possible doubt. Everything in life is open to possible or imaginary doubt. However, doubting yeet's soft is unreasonable given the circumstances. Scum likely knew yeet's result to be true. Otherwise, they don't kill him there most likely. For scum to know that, Galron couldn't be the traitor.

[Titus]

So even if you say VP and Galron are scum and I am “bad” you push Nero or Cape

This isn’t town you.

Cape's not in my pool?

Like are we reading the same thread?

[Titus]

Sure. There's possible doubt. Everything in life is open to possible or imaginary doubt. However, doubting yeet's soft is unreasonable given the circumstances. Scum likely knew yeet's result to be true. Otherwise, they don't kill him there most likely. For scum to know that, Galron couldn't be the traitor.

Again more bad spec

You don’t leave a cop alive unless you make a mistake (see Calculasia)

Yeet’s kill points to no one and saves no one

Yeet never claimed to be a cop though. It was all speculation that Yeet had a clear. If Galron was scum, then killing yeet leaves other PRs alive and suggests Galron is town because scum only shoot yeet to fear his results.

[Titus]

If yeet hadn't flipped PR, scum effectively gift a town Galron. They only make that kill in a town Galron world Math.

I respect you, but I won't follow you.

[Titus]

Ok, I don't think you can be reasoned with right now. You have confirmed town with an investigation stating you are wrong. You're forcing a result that makes zero sense with the nightkill. You're dismissing VP's wall without discussing its details or analyzing it. You asked for my reads but won't discuss them. I'm done with a broken record. I'm going to talk to other people.

[Titus]

Far as I am concerned anyone not hunting in that hood of four is intentionally antitown or scum.

So I give zero ducks if you don’t want to find scum where it’s likely you can die.

I love being intentionally antitown. What fun it is.

VP is probably scum, but if I could not get him yesterday, why would I be able to today? And if I'm being honest, I also got bored of voting him.

Cool. I missed your response. Are you new or an alt?

Want to do Scorpious with me?

[Titus]

People on this site care so much what others do with their votes. I get consolidating at end of day, but I fail to see the point in telling at least half the scum they don't need to sweat because we're intentionally ignoring them. Keeping them playing a little worried is one of our greatest weapons. With no pressure they can build beautiful monuments to appearing town and distancing.

I like this.

[Titus]

Town you doesnt think there’s a four person masonry.

I didn't say there was. I'm just not scumreading any of them individually. The majority are likely town too. I'm not going to vote based on setup spec.

[Titus]

Are you positing the scumteam claimed they were in a neighborhood D1? If not, there's town in your list. In fact, half town probably at least even in your setup.

Second, Math persuasion is not about control but cooperation. Town can discuss their reads but a solid townblock has different skills that come together for the ultimate prize. A good leader looks for people who are willing to discuss but disagree. A good town leader doesn't seek control to push their answer.

See Titus v. Alisae

[Titus]

VOTE: DV

Tend/VP, let's do this.

[Titus]

As a mason, you have to be open to possibilities that you are wrong. The more you tunnel, the less influence you have because people know it's not from a guilty and it makes your posts look more like desperation than evidence. Chill out. Enjoy the game. Play mind tricks on people. You can take risks and engage in scummy behavior to get reads. Abuse the conftown privilege there.

[Titus]

VOTE: DV

Tend/VP, let's do this.

why not eyes? he has 2 votes already and he was one of your top scumreads, right?

I missed that.

VOTE: eyes

[Titus]

Can you at least give an opinion of eyes when you wake up Math?

[Titus]

Can you at least give an opinion of eyes when you wake up Math?

Town good night

Ok an opinion with reasons. Please don't sass me. I'm trying here.

[Titus]

Enchant, who have you tried to shoot so far?

[Titus]

And n1?

[Titus]

:/ Fire, over any of the wagons d1? Why?

[Titus]

Ok you subbed in d2, so you wouldn't know that.

My concern, although feel free to tell me if I'm off base VP/April, is those claimed shots are really bad and make me doubt Enchant town.

[Titus]

Galron, what do you think?

[Titus]

Scorpious, eyes, DV, tene (well given his last posts yesterday but he's improved today)

Hell even though I TR them, I'd understand VP or April shots.

They all are better shots than Galron (prob clear) and fire(who has town points).

[Titus]

My concern, although feel free to tell me if I'm off base VP/April, is those claimed shots are really bad and make me doubt Enchant town.

There is a reason enchant is in my null pile. It is semi weird scum are RBing that slot when their reads are bad. Letting a bad shot fly at a townie is +scum win con.

Not where I would want to lim today, but enchant doesn't get a town pass and may even need to be limmed later.

I doubt scum expected an attempted Galron shot when blocking (assuming they did).

I'm waffling on limming Enchant myself. A serial killer would want to claim vig as they would likely suspect a vig wouldn't be in the game. We need to protect our townblock at all costs today imo.

[Titus]

I didn't see any clear, and so didn't Math.

Yes, in the past. Yeet didn't confirm it but it still made sense to literally everyone else and is confirmed today. Do you understand where I'm worried? Math has clearly been captured and scum are likely kissing up to him? You're claiming to shoot someone who is all reasonabless clear.

[Titus]

Why listening to conftown is +Scum

When conftown are ridiculous and obviously agency captured? Do you understand Galron is town now?

[Titus]

Like Math's current proposition is that Nero VP and Galron are scum together? They outed their scum PT as a hood D1 and that the result on Galron is irrelevant and Nero and VP came out swinging at each other despite hard winning?

[Titus]

Why listening to conftown is +Scum

When conftown are ridiculous and obviously agency captured? Do you understand Galron is town now?

Yeah.

Dumb shot. I still don't think anything horrible happened.

We're lucky for that. I believe you because you aren't FoSing me back for sorting you. An evil Enchant I think would give an entitled rage.

[Titus]

What do you think of my reads Enchant?

Do you think we can afford an eyes lim or do you think we need to eliminate in VP/Nero today?

[Titus]

So if you say I am wrong bring receipts

Explain how that setup passes review or vote in that hood

It’s the same problem I had in the game I just got out of

I was right in scum bussed

But I was shut out because “Math”

There is scum in that hood.

Argue all you want on who, but at least one scum is in it.

[Titus]

Like Math's current proposition is that Nero VP and Galron are scum together? They outed their scum PT as a hood D1 and that the result on Galron is irrelevant and Nero and VP came out swinging at each other despite hard winning?

no, that is not his proposition. he thinks it's titus/VP/galron/April

Math was pretty clearly rage voting me. I'm still open to considering his pool, and maybe I misunderstood it because he was frustrating me so bad because of how frustrated he was muddling his message. He's clearly laser focused on his hood.

Do you think we should lim there, lim outside or do you feel strongly in your own pool? I think you're voting me but I don't get why. What is your eyes read?

[Titus]

What do you think of my reads Enchant?

Do you think we can afford an eyes lim or do you think we need to eliminate in VP/Nero today?

Agree with Nero, not so much with VP.

Do you feel a Nero VP battle is appropriate today? With Math and partially Galron being happy with that, I feel compelled to reset and considering it. Doubly so with Math quoting Yeet on eyes.

[Titus]

The problem is I don't feel Nero or VP or Cape is scum...

[Titus]

What do you think of my reads Enchant?

Do you think we can afford an eyes lim or do you think we need to eliminate in VP/Nero today?

Agree with Nero, not so much with VP.

Do you feel a Nero VP battle is appropriate today? With Math and partially Galron being happy with that, I feel compelled to reset and considering it. Doubly so with Math quoting Yeet on eyes.

What battle...

VP opened casing Nero/Frogster/StD. Nero has been challenging a 1 v 1 in response.

[Titus]

Math was pretty clearly rage voting me. I'm still open to considering his pool, and maybe I misunderstood it because he was frustrating me so bad because of how frustrated he was muddling his message. He's clearly laser focused on his hood.

Do you think we should lim there, lim outside or do you feel strongly in your own pool? I think you're voting me but I don't get why. What is your eyes read?

no he was not rage voting you, he's thought your slot was maf since he entered the game basically. your interpretation is wrong.

voting in the hood makes sense ig. im fine with that, i think. eyes is someone i had on a lot of potential scumteams but im slightly reconsidering that, idk

Why are you?

[Titus]

Why are you?

cause every scumteam i can think of has you on it

Why? Please be direct. You've been stating every scumteam has me on it. That doesn't say why you feel I am scum or why eyes is clear.

[Titus]

is no one else concerned about april at all?

I'm not. I also feel for game health that we must discuss VP/Nero/Cape even if we decide against eliminating there.

[Titus]

We have time to have that discussion thoroughly.

[Titus]

VP >>>>>>>> Nero >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cape

Then why aren't you voting VP?

[Titus]

VP has accused me of being scum in the main thread at least twice. First, he was pushing a Nero/Wu team and then he was saying that scum in the hood was me or skitter.

He's sorta backed off now and is just calling me a VI.

VP is this true like at all?

That seems mostly accurate. I had scum pings on the way Nero handled Wu on D1, then I reviewed overnight and was suss on your hammer, we fought it out and I ended up town reading you after that fight. That left me with either Nero or galron is likely scum, hence my vote on galron. I sort of felt like Nero was TSTBS, hence why i called him a VI. Then yeet soft cleared galron and here we are today. Nero almost certainly has to be scum.

Do you feel Nero is a better lim today than eyes? You voted eyes for the townblock which doesn't tell me your reads? My game read suggests town are being FoSed for their reads and/or lurking. Gamestate means I have to entertain being wrong.

[Titus]

Why are you?

cause every scumteam i can think of has you on it

Why? Please be direct. You've been stating every scumteam has me on it. That doesn't say why you feel I am scum or why eyes is clear.

i don't have time to wallpost rn, maybe later, but it's mostly about the way you were positioning yourself yesterday. and i think you played up the ignorance of gamestate a little too much. also datisi had a few things that i felt were pretty... off, even tho i was charmed into townreading him as i KNEW would happen

Fair on Datisi. Nothing I can do on that. Datisi is pretty charismatic.

The likely reason people aren't joining on your theory of me being ignorant of the state d1 is that is because it is who I am. I don't read and I don't know unless I am scum.

[Titus]

then why have you killed more town then I have this game?

Not a fan of this but that's your personality I think.

[Titus]

do you feel like "I'm not going to read d1 and continue to be misinformed b/c that's my playstyle." is a particularly pro-town thing to do?

It doesn't make me misinformed. It forces people to explain the gamestate and their votes. It creates reflection that's harder to do when people suppose I have a preformed opinion.

[Titus]

I'm a big fan of the Socratic method and other questioning of cases and highlighting things. The very questions can be used as evidence of an agenda. Everyone has an agenda. The question is, is that agenda town or scum.

[Titus]

The likely reason people aren't joining on your theory of me being ignorant of the state d1 is that is because it is who I am. I don't read and I don't know unless I am scum.

to be more specific i think there are things that you acted as if you didn't know when you actually did, because you know that's your playstyle. it wasn't that you were ignorant of the gamestate, it was that the way you played it up and leaned on it felt fake

Alright. Felt fake isn't really something I can engage on. I'm not a fan of gut and tone reads as I can't easily show where you're wrong. Gut/tone reads do exist and I have engaged on them from time to time. That combined with your paranoia of Datisi creates some rationale for you suspecting me as scum.

What I need to do is verify you have that stated paranoia. My minimal concern on you as that if I were scum, I'd open FoSing those who had correct reads. So that meant you would be scum protecting eyes and Scorpious. It's not a large one and contingent on my other reads being correct. I'm townreading you otherwise but I figured it best to engage you.

[Titus]

Malcolm I am sorry.

Good luck everyone

Vig boon

Elim VP

Then Galron follows
And Titus follows

Good luck

It’s shit like this where I think VP is scum
He said I scumread Yeet. I realized end of day Yeet was bad town

My solve is pretty much 2 in the hood and April and Titus and I think those two are VP and Galron

Then why not vote VP? A Galron protest vote isn't going to help. If you show I am wrong somewhere then it would have me and others reasses Galron. That's partially how to work with us. I'm extending an olive branch collecting data on VP/Nero to help the thread sort since we have time, despite me having eyes as the biggest wagon. Please engage with the reasons with wallposts rather than each one individually to keep post count down and get rational reflection which is where you're at your best.

[Titus]

if I were scum, I'd open FoSing those who had correct reads

you said this earlier, can you explain why?

Scum are in a winning position. If they can discredit those with correct reads as scummy, then they protect themselves. The longer this goes on, the harder it gets to eliminate scum. It's the right move to make to gradually increase suspicion on correct townies.

[Titus]

I feel like I'm tunneled on Baltar and Nero because that's about all of the content in the hood. What Cape has written leans me town there.

Galron, what do you think?

Galron's clear to me and had just posted and your objection is I engaged with him to get his thoughts?

Those thoughts that would help sort him, find his allies (your view) and get town working together?

[Titus]

Plus Titus still on eyes is gross

I've been debating moving my vote most of the time to discuss your feelings and reasses given I know two conftown (one dead) disagree with my eyes vote.

[Titus]

I also think Titus is saying smart things about the game, undoubtedly because they align with my own reads. I think you should be wary of people sucking up to you is all I'm saying.

Wouldn't this lead to you being wary of me?

[Titus]

I feel like I'm tunneled on Baltar and Nero because that's about all of the content in the hood. What Cape has written leans me town there.

Galron, what do you think?

Galron's clear to me and had just posted and your objection is I engaged with him to get his thoughts?

Those thoughts that would help sort him, find his allies (your view) and get town working together?

See it’s stuff like this that makes me wonder in good faith you sorting.

You said Galron is clear to you but then you’re sorting him.

Which is it?

Sorting him is for the collective, not for me as an individual. I'm hoping that you see that literally everyone disagrees with you would cause you to reassess. I'm giving you that credit, and you should give us the same courtesy for today given Galron is not getting limmed today.

Supposing Galron is town, what does your world look like?

[Titus]

vp keeps trying to claim town cred for things that he should know he does not at all deserve town cred for and idk why he would do that as town

What are these things?

1) you noticing yeet's soft, drawing attention to it, and pushing people away from galron. it's playing the good townie in the same way that maf would, nothing about that is town indicative at all, and yet you have said a few times that it is evidence that you're town. the fact that you gave me town cred for backing off galron is also kinda sus tbh bc you should know better as town
2) you buddying up to yeet, him TRing you, and his death. none of those things make you more likely town
3) HEM's death. that was happening no matter what and he wasn't even TRing you according to math
4) acting like you're willing and planning to die and sacrifice yourself for the good of the town even when that isn't the trajectory of things

1) You might disagree with how VP did handle the soft, which is fair. However, VP tried in a manner that got the soft out

without Yeet claiming it

. This left some doubt and made the scum kill more informative and saved a town from an elimination. Maybe VP could have claimed it for himself as a gambit, but other than that, I can't see what VP could have done differently.
2) Fair.
3) I'd like this sourced.
4) It is the trajectory with recent VP votes. Self sacrifice is null though.

[Titus]

I feel like I'm tunneled on Baltar and Nero because that's about all of the content in the hood. What Cape has written leans me town there.

Galron, what do you think?

Galron's clear to me and had just posted and your objection is I engaged with him to get his thoughts?

Those thoughts that would help sort him, find his allies (your view) and get town working together?

See it’s stuff like this that makes me wonder in good faith you sorting.

You said Galron is clear to you but then you’re sorting him.

Which is it?

Sorting him is for the collective, not for me as an individual. I'm hoping that you see that literally everyone disagrees with you would cause you to reassess. I'm giving you that credit, and you should give us the same courtesy for today given Galron is not getting limmed today.

Supposing Galron is town, what does your world look like?

VP + one of Nero/Cape/Deep wolf + you + April

Why Nero/Cape?

Why does Galron town not cause you to reexamine VP/me/April?

[Titus]

Because I think that hood has two scum in it for mechanics reasons as I said earlier

April is a carryover of Skitter read and boon pushed Malcolm over my objections AND admitted Malcolm was about not elimming in my scumreads.

And you haven’t given me anything to TR

April isn't Skitter. Galron is.

Not eliminating someone elses scumreads, even conftown, is NAI. Arguably disagreeing with conftown is more likely to come from town as scum can just select a read you are wrong on.

[Titus]

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

[Titus]

VOTE: Nero

Not sure if this is scum. I'm voting here for the wagonomics and work with VP.

Join me VP?

[Titus]

cause they think they can come out of it looking townier this way, and a town malcolm kill is just as good. the people pushing galron even after yeet makes it obvious he's softing are always gonna be easy pushes if town isn't thinking critically about things

Fair. I wouldn't advocate that play as scum but I forget that people play differently. I'd feel that's slightly less good but it's arguably better for a risk averse team. Taking risks given at least two town wagons would be dangerous. I don't think that happened but I don't find it scummy or unreasonable.

[Titus]

This is a problem from the

Igo Hatsuyoron

, a traditional collection of very hard go problems. We are still unsure if we have found the solution. It is considered the hardest go problem.

---

Official Votecount 2.18

Galron (7): MathBlade, Cape90, tenebrousluminary, Enchant, MalcolmTucker, Nero Cain, Save the Dragons

[E-2]

MalcolmTucker (6): Eyes without a face, Yeet, April Ludgate, Scorpious, Galron, VP Baltar
VP Baltar (3): DeasVail, Titus, Frogsterking

Not Voting (1): fireisredsir

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to achieve an elimination.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2022-03-16 09:20:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

Sometimes you end up in a situation where neither player can kill off the other's stones. This is known as a

seki

and the spaces involved do not give points for either player.

---

Official Votecount 2.19

MalcolmTucker (7): Eyes without a face, Yeet, April Ludgate, Scorpious, Galron, VP Baltar, Titus

[E-2]

VP Baltar (5): DeasVail, Frogsterking, tenebrousluminary, Save the Dragons, Nero Cain
Galron (4): MathBlade, Cape90, Enchant, MalcolmTucker

Not Voting (1): fireisredsir

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to achieve an elimination.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2022-03-16 09:20:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

Alive, dead, seki, or ko are the four results a group can usually end up having. I'll be going more into the strategy of ko in the future, but for now here is the Carpenter's Square, a very complex corner that often ends up in a ko. It has been suggested that if you fully understand this corner you are at professional strength.

---

Official Votecount 2.20

MalcolmTucker (9): Eyes without a face, Yeet, April Ludgate, Scorpious, Galron, VP Baltar, Titus, fireisredsir, MathBlade

[E-0!]

VP Baltar (5): DeasVail, Frogsterking, tenebrousluminary, Save the Dragons, Nero Cain
Galron (3): Cape90, Enchant, MalcolmTucker

Not Voting (0):

With 17 players alive, an elimination has been achieved.

click here for joined mod iso.

Who do you think are scum sitting on Malcom? Do you think the VP wagon is pure?

[Titus]

VOTE: Nero

Not sure if this is scum. I'm voting here for the wagonomics and work with VP.

Join me VP?

Who do you actually scum read?

Scorpious eyes and DV are my biggest scumreads.

[Titus]

Why vote me if you want to work with VP and he's voting eyes?

VP was voting eyes to sheep me. I am deciding I should be second fiddle because I want to see reactions to you versus VP. If I'm right, we have plenty of time to call it off. If I'm wrong, then your reactions and the reactions of others would show that.

I want the fight between you and VP to get Math off this hood thing but still respect it enough to get documentation or reset if wrong.

You versus VP is great for the collective for now, even if neither of you get eliminated.

[Titus]

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

Because if I am right Galron is scum and they won’t know how or why Yeet thinks inno

Could be Galron did the kill N1 as disposable scum
Or he’s traitor and didn’t want to risk it.

Then if they force Yeet to claim when Galron flips town learns a lot

Let's slow down and unpack this.

If Galron was the traitor, then scum would have to know that and know yeet's result would be a good one. That is unlikely given how few posts Galron had d1. A traitor communication would have been spotted. Maybe it was before he came in but it'd have to be there. Then, they'd have to assume yeet cleared a player they're assuming to be bad.

If Galron did the n1 kill as "disposable scum", then this also makes suppositions. 1) That scum would infer that he wouldn't be blocked or 2) He's a goon with PRs and there's no multitasking. and 3) no one else fits better. That's still assumptions to make. They'd also have to assume yeet got a clear that shouldn't be true. They don't know his role.

Occam's Razor applies here.

[Titus]

I get some of the suspicion on VP, but I just can't bring myself to agree with it. Yet, the scummiest slot I find is Nero and he's not a scum scumread. The thread is largely made up of people who I have logical reasons to think their judgment is off this game.

I do have to consider that a broken clock is right twice a day and the sheer volume of town on that wagon is a thing.

[Titus]

*scummiest slot on the wagon.

[Titus]

I mean it's possible Nero could be scum playing up the pride angle. It's possible fire is chainsawing for eyes and wanting to break up me and VP working together. It's possible tene got caught reaching to not protect yeet. It's possible Enchant is not a vig and lying.

None of these things feel especially likely. Multiple need to be true in order for this to be true.

I need to reset somewhere unless all the town on VP are agency captured.

[Titus]

*this to be true=scum pushing VP.

[Titus]

I know I'm undercutting my attempt to investigate what happens if Nero v VP is a thing though. I need a strategy to figure out what is going on with VP and sort between scum push, agency captured town, or I am wrong

[Titus]

Math, without referencing the hood/mechanics/votes, can you detail why VP is scum to you?

[Titus]

to bus or not to bus, it a hard q isn't it?

i think bussing was the play but maybe she thinks that it was so clearly the play that people will TR her for not doing it

or she's just cocky and thinks her and VP can argue their way out of it

*side eye*

Assumes facts not in evidence. If VP flips scum, then I get FoSing me. I mean it requires diverting from eyes town to draw the spotlight onto my partner without verifying I'd have support before dismantling the eyes wagon. But extreme reluctance to vote and hard defense of scum on a likely largely driven town wagon would make me look bad.

VP I just haven't heard anything that I feel persuaded by. I'm listening and trying to work with Math but this elimination feels wrong.

[Titus]

VP’s play just is all around atrocious

Combined with HEM scumread as well

It fits

I need more than just conclusions. Talk to me like fire has please.

[Titus]

Why does it feel wrong? Iirc you’re the one that said there’s more than feelings?

Right. I agree with most of his wall but minus a few conclusions. I feel he's taking chances and risks to save town. I haven't read D1 but leaders on D1 are usually town unless scum really need a shakeup. Given later days, that's not likely. I've engaged with fire to where I partially see his points but I feel fire assumes scum play like he would when there's multiple ways to go about things.

I'd like you to engage me like Fire has.

[Titus]

But extreme reluctance to vote and hard defense of scum on a likely largely driven town wagon would make me look bad.

yes it will. that's why i called it bold, i respect it tbh

This is the oddest suspicion in ages. It reminds me of the old fear Titus scum that both alignments used but you've never played with me during that era unless you're an alt.

[Titus]

Why does it feel wrong? Iirc you’re the one that said there’s more than feelings?

Right. I agree with most of his wall but minus a few conclusions. I feel he's taking chances and risks to save town. I haven't read D1 but leaders on D1 are usually town unless scum really need a shakeup. Given later days, that's not likely. I've engaged with fire to where I partially see his points but I feel fire assumes scum play like he would when there's multiple ways to go about things.

I'd like you to engage me like Fire has.

That’s what I am doing

You said don’t use 3/4ths of the reasons to scum or TR someone and said to answer your question

So I am

Can you slow down and combine into one post? It's hard to follow your train of thought.

[Titus]

But extreme reluctance to vote and hard defense of scum on a likely largely driven town wagon would make me look bad.

yes it will. that's why i called it bold, i respect it tbh

This is the oddest suspicion in ages. It reminds me of the old fear Titus scum that both alignments used but you've never played with me during that era unless you're an alt.

its not a suspicion of you. my suspicion is unrelated to this. i was just having fun with nero commenting about what you're doing

Well at least you're having fun being wrong. A lot of times people get heated and angry when wrong on me. Nero and I have had some pretty gnarly fights in the past.

[Titus]

Why does it feel wrong? Iirc you’re the one that said there’s more than feelings?

Right. I agree with most of his wall but minus a few conclusions. I feel he's taking chances and risks to save town. I haven't read D1 but leaders on D1 are usually town unless scum really need a shakeup. Given later days, that's not likely. I've engaged with fire to where I partially see his points but I feel fire assumes scum play like he would when there's multiple ways to go about things.

I'd like you to engage me like Fire has.

That’s what I am doing

You said don’t use 3/4ths of the reasons to scum or TR someone and said to answer your question

So I am

Can you slow down and combine into one post? It's hard to follow your train of thought.

I did

You said to engage you like fire is

So I am one reason at a time

Like wtf?

His Malcolm progression is horrible and is just saving his own butt

He said he won’t use the hood until it is de scummed

This is bad hood play which you Titus would disagree with because when town you love them

But yet he doesn’t ever want to elim in the hood

The cog dissonance is real

Then there’s the never states my points right either

Slow down. Proper sentences with citations. I'm trying to listen to you. Please make it easier. I want this argument to be here for everyone. If I lose, I lose. I just want everyone to understand. Your disjointed frequently rushed posts are difficult to follow, thus I miss points and misunderstand you. You're playing with passion but it's overwhelming you.

[Titus]

i always have fun!!

If you suppose VP and I are town, what does your world look like?

[Titus]

Hood people what happened in your hood overnight?

Nero pushed me to talk about reads. I told him I'm not doing that in a hood with a potential scum, and that it was kinda antitown to push it repeatedly.

That was all.

I doubt the hood is gonna get used much until we descum it

Doesn’t wanna de scum the hood

This is proper sentences.

This is with citations. Namely the quoted post.

VP says the hood won’t be used until it is descummed

Yet resists all calls to do so and doesn’t push anyone in the hood.

You know what optimal hood play is.

Yet you after seeing this ask for what I already did. It’s infuriating.

He's literally calling Nero scum. He's working with his townreads, which is optimal play too. Sometimes optimal play suggests to two separate things. Second, not everyone agrees with us on how hoods should operate. I can't say a different playstyle is scummy.

[Titus]

Titus you voted VP yesterday, what's making you not want to vote him today?

My VP vote was not based on his play but based on in thread events and prior wagons. Now that I'm invested, I'm voting on play.

[Titus]

so my play is scummy? whats scummy about it?

I agree with a lot of what VP said. I also feel your pride could be a mask for being scum. I disagree with how strongly VP weighs it though. I feel it's weak evidence. He feels it's strong. I feel he cased DV much better.

[Titus]

Calling someone scum and pushing them are two different things.

This is also 2000 posts later.

He still went a good chunk of time not wanting to elim in the hood

I'm not persuaded by not eliminating in the hood. I think you're overly invested there. The possibility of him being right on his team could be why Nero's invested. I'm leaning more towards agency capture and that he's right on one of Frogstar and StD thus making him a foregone conclusion to eliminate.

[Titus]

It's in my ISO. I'll quote after court.

[Titus]

As for your pride, pride can mask scum protecting partners and pushing town. Your very stubborn in my eyes and can mask that to push town. Again, that is my belief that you're capable and I want to see what happens out of respect for Math. I reset the hood after our fight as an olive branch.

[Titus]

And yet you ignore my reason Malcolm progression is bad? When I cited posts.

Where was this? This is precisely what I was talking about with missing things.

[Titus]

I can't post muxh bc driving. I may miss things and cannot do citations or check them however I think a few things need responding to.

Tene, agency captured is a town player who unwittingly works for scum. I highly suspect that to be happening given the miseliminations on town. That's part of why I feel a need to stoo this wagon. It's major cog dis.

[Titus]

Here's the cognitive dissonance I am having...

Do I protect VP? I strongly townread VP, but don't obviously have a mech clear. Every wagon so far has landed on town. Having the same people lead should generate more town flips.

VP's points about scum feel valid. Nero Frogstar and StD are all, at a minimum alright with a VP elimination. While I lean Nero town, I don't have solid reads on the other two. The fact that no one got on the Nero wagon is something I intend to analyze.

If I lose VP, it will become pretty hard to get an accurate town core going. I would have April, but April's widely scumtead. Fire's a good sounding board but I feel is consistently wrong.

These reasons are good reasons to try and shout down a VP wagon.

However, I can't just shoot down a wagon based on what I feel when the people pushing it aren't high scum reads. While my suspect pool is largely in the back fueling my agency capture read, I must consider the possibility that I'm the one agency captured. If I don't, then I'm no better than the Math/Galron situation. I'd be doing the exact thing I told him not to do: derail reads solely due to my confidence.

That leaves with a cognitive dissonance with no good answer.

[Titus]

To add, I wish I could use Math as a sounding board. I am trying but when he says that if I engage everything I said I would agree it really turned me off and was disheartening. It leaves zoom room to reasonably disagree. It shows zero attempt to reconsider and makes me feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. It's possible to have town motivated reasons and be wrong. That's evidently true from the prior flips.

[Titus]

Town doesn’t fake reads

I considered faking a Nero scumread to get a counter for VCA.

[Titus]

If you have information/likelihood scum in the hood you talk about them. Force them to do things to sort them.

No. Sometimes it's better to sit and force reactions.

[Titus]

Fire tene and myself surely all can’t be “agency captured”.

Why do you feel this way?

Where is the cognitive dissonance?

Is it simply you TR VP?

I answered the cog dis above.

I feel strongly that VP is town. While I doubt you're all agency captured, you are led astray. When you post things that don't jive with my read of the thread, we need to figure out who is wrong if they are agency captured or scum.

[Titus]

We can decapitate Scoprious.

Not opposed.

[Titus]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I mean if we really want to solve within the hood

Why?

[Titus]

Why Cape? Does it not bother anyone that I am the only person tring vp?

[Titus]

Why Cape? Does it not bother anyone that I am the only person tring vp?

he didn't get limmed d2 cause too many people were TRing him. you're also not the only one, eyes and april still are as far as i know, and so is cape

And they're all dead aren't they?

(Sass without checking)

[Titus]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

Can you do a reasonless or wall readslist? I think the ship has sailed on saving you.

[Titus]

Driving give me 30 mins

[Titus]

Based solely on those two vcs, my play reads suggest Scorpious and Frogstar planting seeds the town ran with.

Scum didn't even bother with even faking a counterwagon until April shouted the wagon down. The lack of a counterwagon usually means either boned scum, bussing scum or scum that don't give a damn. Let's discuss each in turn.

VP being boned scum at that point doesn't match with what happened unless April is agency captured town. Scum don't stick their neck on the line for a partner like that. If VP was boned scum, expect at least 1 scum on the wagon and multiple if possible. The votes should be in soon after VP was exposed. I don't believe this theory, so I can't find that moment but I include it for the sake of completion.

VP being bussed is unlikely because of the gamestate. Bussing scum generally do so early.

VP town can create apathy and a lack of desire to create counterwagons. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Anything else needs a specific question.

[Titus]

What about the case of an authentic wagon and April running counter for scum? You just said that doesn’t happen but it’s been my theory.

Too risky. The strength of VP's wagon puts it in more boned scum scenario if VP is scum. Remember, we have a vigilante who could possibly shoot VP. Enchant played it close to the vest. If Enchant had shot VP, April would look incredibly bad and have zero credibility to take their way out of it. The same applies if April fails.

[Titus]

To use your phrase “Could April be ‘agency captured’ or scum?”

It seems like they’re both scum and April is less important than VP so April tried to die

[Titus]

@DV, Heated frustration = passion = lean town

[Titus]

To use your phrase “Could April be ‘agency captured’ or scum?”

It seems like they’re both scum and April is less important than VP so April tried to die

There’s no response here

It got ate. April being agency captured or scum is a place I would reset if VP is scum.

[Titus]

@DV, Heated frustration = passion = lean town

it can also come from maf who think they were caught for the wrong reasons

Hence the word lean

[Titus]

Pride, thy name is town. There's a reason it's a deadly sin Math.

[Titus]

Pride, thy name is town. There's a reason it's a deadly sin Math.

How is this pride? I am considering you town (meaning I am wrong on you) and asking a broad question of what that means for D1.

That literally is the answer. We're literally scumreading opposition while scum sit back and watch. That's pride to assume that there's only one reasonable school of thought.

[Titus]

If I thought town could legit hold only my opinions and be competent, my only plans would be contempt and FoSing making it impossible to form a coherent townblock. Instead, I look for players who might be reasoned with if shown to be wrong.

[Titus]

It’s starting from facts namely if you’re town every wagon D1 was on town
If VP is town and Galron is town then every wagon for the entire game has been on town

Then who is scum in that set of facts? It’s assuming what you want me to and asking broad questions.

Town cannibalizing its loud vocal players strongly indicates pride. Namely, slots are getting scumread because they oppose other vocal townread slots.

How many people contributed to today beyond saying VP is a good/ok elimination? There's far too many players that sat back and let this elimination go through. Scum have no interest in saving VP.

[Titus]

Frogsterking - A few questions to me. Otherwise, no real contribution.
Scorpious - Random vote on Cake and wanting to die.
Save The Dragons - Sheep and leave.
DeasVail - FoS and then VLA
Eyes without a face - Prodded said nothing
April Ludgate - Included to be fair. No real push.
Cape90 - Barely here, but he arguably could be excluded.

A good bulk of your scum are in here.

[Titus]

If VP is town, scum are either doing nothing and laughing as we chase our tails, or playing embarrassingly large circles around us.

This is my answer rephrased Math. It takes out the word pride.

[Titus]

If VP is town, scum are either doing nothing and laughing as we chase our tails, or playing embarrassingly large circles around us.

no, Nero is not doing nothing.

There's likely one deep wolf I haven't caught yet but I expect the statement to be true for the bulk of scum.

[Titus]

If VP is town, scum are either doing nothing and laughing as we chase our tails, or playing embarrassingly large circles around us.

This is my answer rephrased Math. It takes out the word pride.

Who is scum if the latter?
Who is scum if the former?

1- former) 5474
2 - latter) This is where we get into the position that we have one or two deep and persuasive wolves. I'd be looking deeper at my reasons for FoSing the people at the start of VP's wagon today.

I'm more inclined to believe 1.

[Titus]

If VP is town, scum are either doing nothing and laughing as we chase our tails, or playing embarrassingly large circles around us.

This is my answer rephrased Math. It takes out the word pride.

Who is scum if the latter?
Who is scum if the former?

1- former) 5474
2 - latter) This is where we get into the position that we have one or two deep and persuasive wolves. I'd be looking deeper at my reasons for FoSing the people at the start of VP's wagon today.

I'm more inclined to believe 1.

I am more inclined for 2.

Not a single scum wagoned for 3 days in a row would take skill if VP is town.

(To be clear I don’t think this just DAing)

Order of prob is
VP scum
Most Deep wolves
Most lurker wolves

Fair. The VCs don't force either possibility. That's a reasonable opinion, even if I don't agree. Who would you think are the deep wolves pushing VP if he's town?

[Titus]

I've already postulated each person's rationale on why they could be scum in a deep wolf scenario and why I didn't like that when I reached the conclusion it was likely a town lead wagon on VP today as opposed to yesterday.

Townbeards exist. There is no rule capping them at one. The first step in determining where scum are in a VC is determining what they want. That's hard without a scumflip. That's why I say VCA is better with D3 and a scumflip.

Were scum voting out people who SRed them? Voting out vocal skilled players when shots arose? Just playing passively?

All three stories are valid.

Again, not agreeing your possibilities are the only ones is not scummy. You can disagree with me .

[Titus]

I mean it's possible Nero could be scum playing up the pride angle. It's possible fire is chainsawing for eyes and wanting to break up me and VP working together. It's possible tene got caught reaching to not protect yeet. It's possible Enchant is not a vig and lying.

None of these things feel especially likely. Multiple need to be true in order for this to be true.

I need to reset somewhere unless all the town on VP are agency captured.

Here you are Math.

[Titus]

I mean it's possible Nero could be scum playing up the pride angle. It's possible fire is chainsawing for eyes and wanting to break up me and VP working together. It's possible tene got caught reaching to not protect yeet. It's possible Enchant is not a vig and lying.

None of these things feel especially likely. Multiple need to be true in order for this to be true.

I need to reset somewhere unless all the town on VP are agency captured.

Here you are Math.

And that’s where I have a problem TRing you

You don’t have any viable narrative for a scumread

?????
I have scumreads. I fully expect one of those rare scenarios to be right but I doubt it's two or more. That doesn't mean I lack scumreads. It means I don't want to attack loud vocal, high risk, low reward people on a theory I find less likely to be accurate when there's slots doing nothing.

Since you're in favor of deep wolves, do you think any of them are sound if VP town?

[Titus]

Plus, not having a preplanned narrative = town Titus. I just say what I feel and sort out the story as I get evidence

Scum Titus starts with a narrative and works around it.

[Titus]

I mean it's possible Nero could be scum playing up the pride angle. It's possible fire is chainsawing for eyes and wanting to break up me and VP working together. It's possible tene got caught reaching to not protect yeet. It's possible Enchant is not a vig and lying.

None of these things feel especially likely. Multiple need to be true in order for this to be true.

I need to reset somewhere unless all the town on VP are agency captured.

Here you are Math.

And that’s where I have a problem TRing you

You don’t have any viable narrative for a scumread

?????
I have scumreads. I fully expect one of those rare scenarios to be right but I doubt it's two or more. That doesn't mean I lack scumreads. It means I don't want to attack loud vocal, high risk, low reward people on a theory I find less likely to be accurate when there's slots doing nothing.

Since you're in favor of deep wolves, do you think any of them are sound if VP town?

I get you’re saying people are scum but there’s no

“Nero’s scum because he’s (something he is doing)”

You come really close to something but nothing feels right

How I understand your post is VP feels town
But I can’t find any scum that feel right.

One of those two things is wrong

I can't find his wagon today is largely scum driven. The seeds were planted yesterday.

Town can and do drive wagons on town.
Take a look at your wagon versus HEM in 1254. There's 10 players voting. Unless every scum was voting you both, those were likely T v T wagons. Continuing the general pattern of T v T wagons is hardly shocking.

[Titus]

Is this your answer to 5425? It appears to be based more on verbal reasoning than it does on VCA.

VCA has it's drawbacks here. Without a scumflip, it's near impossible to determine scum objective by the VCs alone.

[Titus]

Frogster, have you ever seen or done a VCA? I don't recall meeting you.

[Titus]

We know HEM and I was TVT wagons we’re both masons.

Town can and do drive wagons on town.

I just have a hard time believing it’s close to 10 times in a row.

What’s more likely is VP is scum.

And if VP is town, we can refresh this discussion if we're both alive. I think it's genuinely hard for you to consider VP town given you'd have to face scum have been in control and it's time for a new direction. You naturally mistrust me and you're reluctant to reconsider what you feel to be strong evidence. You're a holdout juror. That's great for whichever side persuades you, but there's plenty of jury instructions warning against making up your mind too soon.

[Titus]

this game really makes me think of that time I hard pushed one of Titus' buddies and she hard defended them + attacked me

???? I'm leaning town on you. How can you say that I'm attacking you here. That's not consistent with what's happening.

Also, who am I hard defending? VP? You think that I go to this length to defend a dead man walking when the best response is to shut up dead buddies?

[Titus]

this game really makes me think of that time I hard pushed one of Titus' buddies and she hard defended them + attacked me

???? I'm leaning town on you. How can you say that I'm attacking you here. That's not consistent with what's happening.

Also, who am I hard defending? VP? You think that I go to this length to defend a dead man walking when the best response is to shut up dead buddies?

Yes you’ve been hard defending VP all day

Yes. If I was scum with VP, I'd have him shut up. Reads only give town more to work with. Particularly the rule of 3. If VP is scum here, I'll eat my hat.*


*Not a bet, just a confidence expression.

[Titus]

the problem with VP and Titus is that neither of them are pushing where they think scum are. On d2 VP was content to sit on Malcolm instead of try to get a wagon going on Frog or whoever was his "numba 1 scumread!" and today Titus is voting me despite pushing a eyes/deas/scorp scum team

That's not true. I am pushing my scumreads and trying to get people to consider them. However, the thread as a whole decided to go this way. I attempted everything to get useful content on my scumreads from wagoning eyes to attempting a counter on you to see where they'd vote. Instead, today is an utter waste.

[Titus]

Titus is correct on the play though. There is no planet where Titus and I are buddies. You could claim she is scum trying to score points on my flip, but that would require admission I'm not scum.

this is the only reason im hesitating tbh, she is playing like you're town. maybe it's all just a huge wifom "i would never do this as scum partners" but idk

Well maybe there's hope for tomorrow...

[Titus]

VP's "leadership" has netted us nothing but dead town.

time to stop bitching and start a revolution

Well, I tried a revolution.........

[Titus]

Math lives to endgame, Titus dies tonight or tomorrow. That's my prediction.

I'm putting all my faith in scorpious to win this game for town lol

I worry about a Scorpious pocket, but I'm also desperate for people to work with.

[Titus]

Math lives to endgame, Titus dies tonight or tomorrow. That's my prediction.

I'm putting all my faith in scorpious to win this game for town lol

What a random person to suggest could carry us. ???

Scorpious is explicitly sheeping me and thus a second me for when I die.

[Titus]

VP's "leadership" has netted us nothing but dead town.

time to stop bitching and start a revolution

Well, I tried a revolution.........

By pushing no one lmao

*sighs* An ineffective push is still a push. I had a choice. Embroil the town in drama or work with you when my reads weren't getting traction and VP was. I expected a reasoned discussion of VP. I got only one or two real discussions on him. I made a fatal miscalculation.

[Titus]

also, someone (prob VP and Titus) keep talking about how we are in such a bad place but even if we are the only reason we are is b/c we didn't vote out VP yesterday like we should have.

No. We should be listening to VP's observation wall today.

We absolutely will be discussing that tomorrow if I have a say.

[Titus]

Frogsterking - scum?
Scorpious - town
Save The Dragons - town?
Nero Cain - town?
DeasVail - ?
Titus - ?
Enchant - eisbfoejwbdkfjdneldj
Galron - town
fireisredsir - town
Eyes without a face - ?
VP Baltar - scum?
April Ludgate - scum?
Cape90 - town

Someone who's good at the economy help me budget this

have less question marks

No

What slots would VP's flip help you with?

[Titus]

I feel it's wrong to want the day over with but I kinda do. I don't see a way VP is saved, he doesn't want to be here, he's given final reads and I don't see what else we learn. Fighting for fighting's sake only hurts us.

[Titus]

Would be funny if after VP death, mafia would simple NK Titus.

Now we can sheep.

:/ Luckily Math FoSes me, so I don't see that happening. Then again, who knows. I see three possibilities. Kill conftown, kill correct town or kill a PR. These are not mutually exclusive.

[Titus]

Agency captured just requires town to unwittingly do scum's bidding. Nothing about that requires a particular spot on the wagon.


That being said....

Here's 2.8

VP Baltar (6): Scorpious, tenebrousluminary, Nero Cain, Frogsterking, fireisredsir, MathBlade [E-3]

[Titus]

but with your proposed team scums bidding has been to not let VP die....

#confused?

[Titus]

VOTE: SAVE THE DRAGONS

BAH

Well at least it's in my scum pool.