A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[pistachi0n]

Yooooooo

VOTE: beeboy

I'm a miller.

[pistachi0n]

ugh

?

[pistachi0n]

I haven't seen millers immediately claim flavor in games I've played with them, so I'll follow suit. You'll know when it's relevant. Or when I'm dead, whatever comes first.

[pistachi0n]

Ami posted before I claimed Miller, didn't day anything about it until she CC'd me. Odd.

And why isn't she voting me? Because she knows I'll flip town, making her look suspicious?

[pistachi0n]

Anyway VOTE: ami

[pistachi0n]

I'll townread Ami for now since she says it was a gambit for reaction-testing.

I agree Mirhawk's reaction was scummy, but one thing I notice along with it was Mirhawk's reaction when I first claimed miller--"ugh" followed by "I had a bad experience." So the combination of those posts makes me think he just doesn't want to play with a miller. Mirhawk--what was your experience and how has it shaped how you play the game?

I'm going back to beeboy for now, though.

VOTE: beeboy

[pistachi0n]

I didn't come in when I was being pushed. I claimed miller in my first post because that's what millers do. Then I got pushed.

[pistachi0n]

It's a 21 player game, so yeah, there's lots of noise. I'm wondering if you're spamming out and using that as a defense.

[pistachi0n]

Ok, I have an issue with your seniors wagon.

Your original case on him was based off of some RVS stuff, this is a big game so we get lots of new posts fast, I don't think them initially not saying anything is indicative of anything. It was a pretty far reach. Then you kept trying to get people to vote seniors and...that RVS stuff was still your main case. Later you called them evasive and said they were doing things to not stand out, but I don't see any of that from them, like, even a little bit.

[pistachi0n]

I like how I stopped posting and Seniors is using me as excuse to idle still. Obv scuming 101

Your vote on Swords still seems like "meh, I'm bored, let's try something else"

[pistachi0n]

Yo so I think Podo is town because his posts are actually good and Seniors is tunneling him for bad reasons.

What do you like about his posts specifically?

His posts feel open and nothing to hide, like 576 for example. And he's doing more scumhunting then half the playerlist which is a plus.

I agree with this. Podo is a strong townread. I especially liked the recent 728 and 729.

[pistachi0n]

I'm going to jump on the Mirhawk wagon.

I was reluctant because I thought some of his earliest posts had good content and I had mixed feelings about his reaction to Ami's gambit. I don't like his recent posts, though:

First off I promised to point out why I think dav's scum.

First off read his iso. Everything until he places his first vote is sidelong comments on other wagons. Half of that is throwing shade with no votes cast.

This is a reach, it also describes the playstyle of Mirhawk himself--he's been making a lot of comments on other wagons.

852 reads like he's trying to get credit for being skeptical/contrarian without backing it up at all.

re 858 why is it horseshit? The post he's responding to is spot-on. And instead of defending himself, he dismisses it.

A lot of his reactions to statements he disagrees with are just "no." Drive by sniping is right.

Ami's only in the pool because I'm paranoid about the miller gambit. I actually find her play kind of town.

?????

[pistachi0n]

Because he always plays like this regardless of role p sure and its not a good reason to wagon him for.

What is a good reason?

[pistachi0n]

I am commenting on things as I see them. I'm really not quite sure what you are getting at with the spread out comment.

In my head I have the town separated into several groups based on who they talk with the most as well as which wagon they're on.

The people in your list aren't ones I associate with each other.

Do you really think associative tells are a reliable way to hunt for scum on day 1 of a 21 player game?

[pistachi0n]

I'm still not sure what made the replacing out part scummy. I don't feel that way at all, it seemed unrelated to the game.

I don't think people are using that as a main reason for a scumread.

[pistachi0n]

I haven't found any scum hunting from the Cakes slot that I actually like.
Discuss.

I was scumreading him for playing similarly in a different game, he flipped town. I'm not sold yet.

[pistachi0n]

Geez I suck at engaging scum reads.

Ok...I side-eye any sort of self-deprecating post in this game.

[pistachi0n]

Geez I suck at engaging scum reads.

Ok...I side-eye any sort of self-deprecating post in this game.

How do you react to self-congratulatory posts?

It depends on the player.

[pistachi0n]

Would not be okay with Mirhawk lynch as opposed to Skybird or Swordsworth. Yes that was very likely a scum replace out. Talk about how replacements are null all you want, but the way and conditions under which you present your replacement request circumstances matters.

I don't understand what was scummy about his replacement. He was overwhelmed and busy, he had given a V/LA beforehand, I'm reading his inactivity and replacement as he has too much going on.

[pistachi0n]

I realize I forgot to actually vote Mirhawk in my last post.

VOTE: mirhawk

[pistachi0n]

I'm not lynching dram today over Skybird or Ranger (sorry you replaced into a scum slot)

I can see joining a Ranger lynch today, but not sure enough on Skybird yet to switch off of dram.

Why would you say this when Ranger hasn't even posted yet?

[pistachi0n]

I'm not lynching dram today over Skybird or Ranger (sorry you replaced into a scum slot)

I can see joining a Ranger lynch today, but not sure enough on Skybird yet to switch off of dram.

Why would you say this when Ranger hasn't even posted yet?

Because I'm not comfortable with the slot based on Swordsworth's (lack of) contribution. If Ranger can contribute something, that can obviously change, but if Ranger plays similarly to Swords, it's not looking good for that slot.

Yeah, we should look at Ranger's slot, but it's awfully bold to intend to vote someone who hasn't posted at all.

[pistachi0n]

You're the only one voting him, nobody else is very interested.

[pistachi0n]

Mirhawk, I'm re-reading the thread and working through ISO's. That's why you see the question to snarky.

And I never said I was good at this game. I just enjoy playing it.

This is the first Skybird post I think is really scummy.

[pistachi0n]

Mirhawk, I'm re-reading the thread and working through ISO's. That's why you see the question to snarky.

And I never said I was good at this game. I just enjoy playing it.

This is the first Skybird post I think is really scummy.

Why do you think it's scummy?

"I never said I was good at this game. I just enjoy playing it" seems like flippant scum defending being scumread.

[pistachi0n]

Mirhawk, in post 345 was a question to Sakura asking her thoughts on TWL and Dave. She responded to you immediately after in post 346. You say nothing in response. In post 878 you respond to Spiffeh calling TWL town with a no. Ten posts later you tell Spiffeh to quit townreading scum. If you are scum reading TWL why haven't you voted for them? Further, why aren't you pushing them?

p-edit: bad podo.

Is anyone aside from me even scumreading TWL? Seems like a waste of time.

Are you looking for validation?

[pistachi0n]

Are you looking for validation?

Are you looking for a reason to call this scummy?

I don't need a reason.

[pistachi0n]

Lol sure. I'm not the one who you're going to have to justify this to later anyhow. I already think you're scum.

Then why are you not voting me?

[pistachi0n]

I'm sure you can figure it out, it's not that complicated.

Is there a point to this line of questioning?

Yes, the point is to understand you.

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: ranger

this is scum, actually.

This vote combined with the posts before it (by seniors and others) has had me starting to see the case for seniors scum.

[pistachi0n]

Wait wait wait, can someone break down to me why Seniors is scum.

Is this a serious question? I know you skipped wagons, but you're the one who was originally pushing hard for a seniors lynch.

[pistachi0n]

We have less than 24 hours though, so VOTE: friendless seniors

[pistachi0n]

At this point, why does it matter?

[pistachi0n]

Skybird is my top pick.

VOTE: Skybird

[pistachi0n]

Please provide a short dissertation on your theory there.

Her votes have been opportunistic but more importantly she's done a lot of the "lol I'm so bad at this game" and it doesn't sit well with me.

[pistachi0n]

Please provide a short dissertation on your theory there.

Her votes have been opportunistic but more importantly she's done a lot of the "lol I'm so bad at this game" and it doesn't sit well with me.

Okay thanks.

Can you please specify your Miller role. I have a result on you which says you're not a miller.

I have another role, but I am also a miller.

[pistachi0n]

Welcome Marquis!

Pistach, I get better as the game goes on.

What's bothering me is why you feel the need to talk about this at all.

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: tictac

I'm OK with this, but for the benefit of town, Cakez, you should make a real case.

In going through your ISO, you had tictac as a 5 on your scale from 1 to 7 with 7 being town. (post 1445) I don't see a case against tictac in your ISO. How about you making a case if you are OK with voting tictac.

Why don't you make your own cases? Who do you think is fishy and why?

[pistachi0n]

@Mod--confirm my alignment

[pistachi0n]

UNVOTE: pistachi0n

Claiming Miller was really shitty.

I claimed miller because I am also a miller. Not that it matters anymore.

[pistachi0n]

Welcome Marquis!

Pistach, I get better as the game goes on.

What's bothering me is why you feel the need to talk about this at all.

You brought it up as a scum point against me. I'm responding with the truth.

After looking at last night's actions, how has that changed your reads?

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Probably SirCakez.

Sorry Ranger my gut was right about you but I couldn't stop the lynch

This after being a part of the wagon.

And it's not like he voted and then didn't get a chance to unvote--he posted plenty between his vote and the hammer that lynched her.

[pistachi0n]

Yeah, something doesn't add up with Ogre's investigative results on me--at first I thought he might be scum with some investigative role trying to get me quicklynched before I could claim IC, but that doesn't make sense either--maybe he just wanted to draw it out of me?

[pistachi0n]

Hey pistachi0n, you're better than obvtown. Whose scum and why?

SirCakez is scum VOTE: SirCakez

*Starts the game townreading Ranger

I HAVENT CAUGHT UP YET
If Ranger is the only option then I'll prob vote her just to avoid nolynch. If she flips town though Spiffeh and beeboy should be my voteslaves tomorrow.

Was followed by a Ranger vote. But he said he'd vote Ranger to avoid a no lynch...he didn't have to, he could have voted Seniors if he had a strong conviction that Ranger was town.

Ranger is at like what? L-2? We can get the votes for that.

Is suddenly enthusiastic about voting Ranger once he realizes it can go through.

At this point it is basically NL or Ranger

Again...Seniors???

Sorry Ranger my gut was right about you but I couldn't stop the lynch

You didn't try to stop the lynch!!! You tried to get her lynched! And don't say you were doing it to avoid a No Lynch--I was also trying to avoid a no lynch, and I voted Seniors.

Like, it's not the fact that you voted for someone who flipped town--it's the fact that you voted for her, ignored the counterwagon, and then after the flip did the "sorry, I knew you were town deep down inside, just doing what I have to do" thing.

[pistachi0n]

I had stronger reasons to think Seniors was town, I made multiple posts over it. I believed the Fruit Vendor claim and that's confirmable so > Ranger. And I dropped a town case for Ranger but Spiffeh/Beeboy/Seniors gang had their hands over their ears so couldn't do anything about it.

Fruit vendor is such an easy scum claim though.

Also, if you thought Ranger was town, and you wanted to lynch someone else at the end of the day, and you didn't want to lynch Seniors--what was your plan? I didn't see you trying to flashwagon anyone.

[pistachi0n]

I tried to flashwagon Tictac wtf. It fell apart though.
Also Fruit Vendor is a terrible scum claim unless scum is actually Fruit Vendor.

No, that is false, your strong pushing on tictac didn't start until today.

[pistachi0n]

The quoted posts were for the flashwagon, not the "strong pushing".
And we have different conceptions of a strong push then. That wagon got like 4 votes before it collapsed.

That tictac vote you quoted wasn't indicative of someone trying to start a flashwagon. Flashwagons tend to be pushed with more oomph than "I want to try this."

[pistachi0n]

You didn't say at the time that you were flashwagoning, either--usually people say when their intent is to make a flashwagon. It came across as apathetic and vanity.

[pistachi0n]

Because I feel like I did try? It might be some of my push on tictac from today leaking through but I feel like I had a pretty solid push on tictac, not just the wagon start but stuff earlier too.

No...at least, you didn't try hard enough to justify the "sorry ranger I tried"

[pistachi0n]

Also very scummy.

[pistachi0n]

Well, actually, not the jumping off a failed wagon so much as if he was scumreading Seniors at that point.

[pistachi0n]

Idk Cakez, there seems to be a consensus perception of you as floundering and inconsistent in this game.

[pistachi0n]

Ehh? What's your case on Cerb?

[pistachi0n]

Cerb isn't voting me....

Right. My bad. I still don't agree with your cases. Like, you could go through anybody's iso and pick out a few scummy things if you needed to.

[pistachi0n]

Also: Still scumreading Skybird.

[pistachi0n]

Also: Still scumreading Skybird.

Is part of that because I just said I wasn't terribly concerned about her anymore, and you're worried about me?

I'm thinking I'll just claim right now. I was thinking about this earlier and I think it could get confusing if I get NK'd and it's up in the air. What do you think?

I've decided I don't scumread you--it would be too risky for you, town wasn't likely to let a lynch go without giving me time to claim. Whether or not you claim is up to you--I'd only like to know if you have important information on who might be scum.

[pistachi0n]

Also if we have an SK they are trying to be a vig so idc.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[pistachi0n]

Sk is shooting within easy ML targets, so either they are actually a vig or are planning to claim vig and are basically just a vig for now. My money is that its actually just a vig.

You sound certain about this, I'm wondering if it's an SK slip.

[pistachi0n]

I'm not an SK because I don't put any effort into being an SK cause of how bad I think that role is.

Also why would I ever point out that the townsiding person might be an SK if I'm that person?

It's just weird that we've only had one nightkill and you are already certain there's an SK and you think you know their game plan--how do you know it's an SK and not an inaccurate vig?

[pistachi0n]

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BALANCE OF NONTOWN AND VIGS DON'T AREN'T NONTOWN.

ok, my bad

[pistachi0n]

Why does skybird look town to you?

[pistachi0n]

Mostly just a feeling.

Can you give examples? Any?

[pistachi0n]

1) When were in the middle of saying that you knew Ranger was town but you couldn't stop her lynch, you also said that her lynch would break the game open in terms of reads. What did you mean and why wasn't there followup on it today?

This is also an excellent point. What information do you have from the Ranger lynch?

[pistachi0n]

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

I've definitely been pushing to lynch Cakez but this vote was incredibly opportunistic.

[pistachi0n]

NOT HOW THAT WORKS M8.

you have to realize that town make shit posts all the fricken time. Beeboy made a shit post and got called for it. I think that Dram had every excuse to pressure beeboy and make a scene and get that glorious towncred. However he didn't which is towny. A low content scum doesn't waste posts just to get reads.

He's towny because he did the thing that would make him less likely to get read as town..? this is the kind of thing where you could find a way to townread him no matter what he did.

[pistachi0n]

the way I like doing that is by creating a large town circle.

You have done nothing to solidify your town circle.

[pistachi0n]

I do remember a game where I was scum and itlpip was town and he was easy to mislynch...can't remember exactly why though, I'd have to look through it again. I remember him saying more than this though.

[pistachi0n]

the way I like doing that is by creating a large town circle.

You have done nothing to solidify your town circle.

Not true but w/e.

Usually having a town circle requires strong reads and cooperation.

[pistachi0n]

At this point I'm waiting for Pistachion to confirm that she has a nonstandard role, but if she doesn't I have no idea whats going on.

Sorry, I didn't know there was anything I hadn't confirmed already. I'm a town innocent child miller. That's it.

[pistachi0n]

I'm fine with Cakez, Skybird, and Mirhawk--not Mala or anybody else.

[pistachi0n]

All of us are scumreading each other, how are these your scumreads together? Do you think it's some elaborate 3-way bus or something?

I don't think all three of you are scum (at least not in the same faction, we haven't ruled out multiball or an SK) at the same time but I think there is at least one scum within the three of you and possibly a 2-way bus.

[pistachi0n]

The way they talk to me. It is like they know I am town but refuse to give any read on me.

But the slot seems skilled enough to be able to fabricate a reason for a townread if they were scum.

[pistachi0n]

Also, it seems like all TPP is saying about dwlee anyway is that he hasn't done anything alignment indicative yet.

[pistachi0n]

Also, it seems like all TPP is saying about dwlee anyway is that he hasn't done anything alignment indicative yet.

but I have..

That's not what I'm saying, that's what TPP is saying. Which is different from townreading you and not giving a reason.

[pistachi0n]

Also, it seems like all TPP is saying about dwlee anyway is that he hasn't done anything alignment indicative yet.

but I have..

That's not what I'm saying, that's what TPP is saying. Which is different from townreading you and not giving a reason.

I'm not saying he is townreading me. I am saying the tone of his posts are like he knows I'm town.

That doesn't make sense, their posts haven't stated a townread on you. I don't see what you are seeing.

[pistachi0n]

dwlee i can read, making your text bigger will not make me think you are right

[pistachi0n]

dwlee i can read, making your text bigger will not make me think you are right

You obviously can't read..

I understand that you are not saying tpp is townreading you. I understand that you think the tone of their posts are like they know you're town.

I

disagree

with you and I think you are using

flawed logic

and I am

not getting that vibe at all

from TPP and I think you are

assigning too much importance to yourself.

[pistachi0n]

Hi pistachion. How do you feel about mirhawk? Is he right about pip/podo/myself not properly evaluating his play?

Nah, I think pip was correct in that the push on dav and then completely forgetting about him is fishy--I understand that during the end of day 1 he had to focus on other things because dav probably wasn't going to get lynched, it's weird that he didn't even mention dave at all today though (until pip pointed it out)--he's saying it's because it's a large game and it's hard to pay attention to everyone, which is true, but I've seen more people respond to that by focusing on a few specific people.

[pistachi0n]

Basically in all games Cakez gets lynched and then occasionally he is actually scum, but that really didn't happen this game.

That's why i'd prefer skybird actually,

VOTE: skybird

[pistachi0n]

also happens to skybird ffs

ok. I've played with Cakez but I haven't played with Skybird. So from my prior experience, I've scumread Cakez when it turns out he was town, I know nothing about the bird.

[pistachi0n]

pied piper drooling for a lynch

no one sees them as scum...STILL?!

This is a really scummy post. Consider the circumstances: Skybird was scum, TPP put her at L-1, and the deadline was rapidly approaching. It's scummy to drool for a lynch close to the deadline? Putting a scummy player at L-1 close to the deadline is drooling for a lynch at all?

VOTE: Friendless Seniors

[pistachi0n]

I'm Willy Wonka, flavour cop. (Slightly amused at this role given my alt.)

No result N1 investigating pistach, and no result again N2 investigating Axel.

I thought it extremely unlikely that I'd be interfered with N1 so I assumed pistach was lying.

What would I be lying about, though, if you're a flavor cop?

I was wondering if you were a flavor cop because my flavor is Roxie Hart from Chicago who did in fact kill people, your claim is a little less believable hearing you had no result.

[pistachi0n]

Someone told me earlier they saw why I thought tictac was scum but that he was town. I think that's why I unvoted him in the first place?

Wait, what? You unvoted him because someone else said he was town?

[pistachi0n]

Flubber you're gonna have to contribute more then that.
I dislike how FS is still the leading wagon with no real counter offered. It's like scum wants the game in this kind of melancholy game state with one leading wagon and nothing really happening. If they were scum I think there would have been a counterwagon by now.

This is false, TPP and tictac (now Flubbernugget) are the counterwagons, this makes me suspect you a little bit but I'm mainly noting this so I can look at you on D4.

[pistachi0n]

Dwlee why are you fishing into this "crumb" so much?

I'm not fishing, they're completely full of shit.

nah I think you're fishing

do you really think scum would go to such great lengths to discredit a scumread on their scumbuddy who doesn't currently have a huge wagon on them?

[pistachi0n]

i can't believe that you guys seriously think that those crumbs and softs are coming from town. WHAT ROLE FITS THEIR SOFTS AND MAKES PLAUSIBLE SENSE? NONE

Having an Innocent Child Miller makes no sense, and yet

[pistachi0n]

I agree that there were some contradictions in TPP's statements--

"the truth is much simpler"

then what is it?

[pistachi0n]

Occam's Razor: TPP is scum
Other possibility: TPP fakeclaimed an inno on someone (which he admitted to) in order to stop the vigilante from killing a town read of his that he is super confident in because of a neighborizor tictac had that he used on tpp where, also they had info on prs because they are good at picking up info on prs

At this point, I...think that if anyone had certain information that TPP's claims were false, they would have called BS and voted TPP already.

[pistachi0n]

@dram: you realize I've wanted Mirhawk lynched since my first post upon replacing into this game right? :p

VOTE: Mirhawk

Itlepips case against mirhawk was basically the same thing with the inconsistency, except he just doesn't ever go back, rather than going back and having an inconsistent read.

Why didn't you vote Mirhawk earlier?

I didn't like the votes from either you or Friendless Seniors, the rest of the wagon is fine.

[pistachi0n]

I bitch at people for being stupid, until someone is stupid to such a level that they must be scum, or everyone else is so not stupid they must be town.

you've never seen town be stupid?

[pistachi0n]

TPP, I don't agree with your analysis of how newbies play in 4590. Every newbie is different. In my newbie game, half the town was death-tunneling the IC at first because he did something we didn't like and we figured that if he was scum, he would be the hardest to get lynched.

I'm not sold on tictac being scum, but I don't think "newbies wouldn't play like this" is a good reason. I think you'd be a good neighbor choice for him no matter what his alignment.

[pistachi0n]

yeah the reads list seemed a little forced.

although, most reads lists do.

how do you not have a read on cerb?

[pistachi0n]

Weakly scum, why are you surprised that I have a read on you?

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: mirhawk

This seems more viable than FS atm

If Mirhawk is scum, I'd expect Cakez to be scum too

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: mirhawk

This seems more viable than FS atm

If Mirhawk is scum, I'd expect Cakez to be scum too

This doesn't make sense, we've been at each other's throats the whole game

That's not a reason why people can't be scum together, but I'm basing it off the timing of the wagon jumps. It doesn't matter until/unless we see a Mirhawk flip, anyway.

[pistachi0n]

I was going to go fuck all y'all and not give a full reads list, as I'm moderately annoyed with several players in this game, but I'm in a better mood today and that's kinda childish so I'll throw one together.

What's the point of saying this? "I wasn't going to do the thing but I decided to do it anyway--lucky you!!"

[pistachi0n]

It can't just be the scum as there can't be more then three or four of them in total, most of the town apparently decided that they wouldn't even acknowledge that this is even happening for ~reasons~.

That's why I don't think TPP is scum. Also, they didn't flat-out lie. They were annoyingly vague about it, but they didn't

lie.

[pistachi0n]

Why would they bother to out the PRs as scum at all when they could just quietly nightkill them later without worrying about them being protected?

[pistachi0n]

Though to be honest stache, I can see it from your side too. There isn't any reason scum wouldn't do what you're proposing.

So why not take your vote off TPP and put it back on Cakez?

[pistachi0n]

Jokes aside why are you asking about Cakez?

I can't remember what your read on him is, are you scumreading him?

Yes, and I'm scumreading you, and I think it's suspicious that both of you are strongly scumreading each other but neither of you are voting for each other. Especially that Cakez isn't voting you when we have a good shot at lynching you.

[pistachi0n]

SirCakez, deadline is in a little over a day, move back if you have any interest.

[pistachi0n]

I'll be here all tomorrow, I don't need to move back RIGHT NOW <.<

Are you trying to force a no lynch or what?

[pistachi0n]

How sure are you that whether or not the musical is current is a clue to whether or not someone's town or scum? I think we need another flip.

[pistachi0n]

People on one-vote wagons are scum.

[pistachi0n]

UNVOTE: Mirhawk
VOTE: Piper

Why do you keep unvoting Mirhawk? We have less than a day left.

[pistachi0n]

UNVOTE: Mirhawk
VOTE: Piper

Why do you keep unvoting Mirhawk? We have less than a day left.

Would you vote FS if it was viable?

Absolutely. FS is my first choice of lynch, but I'm a lot more scared of a no lynch than I am of lynching town.

[pistachi0n]

UNVOTE: Mirhawk
VOTE: Piper

Why do you keep unvoting Mirhawk? We have less than a day left.

Would you vote FS if it was viable?

Absolutely. FS is my first choice of lynch, but I'm a lot more scared of a no lynch than I am of lynching town.

Will you be around near deadline?

Yes, but no way in hell am I switching unless FS already has more votes.

[pistachi0n]

Not voting piper or Mirhawk ftr

Why do you want a no lynch?

At least switch to FS.

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: mirhawk

[pistachi0n]

It seems like there were no strong feelings against the Axel wagon--people who weren't on it mostly ignored it.

[pistachi0n]

The early wagon pressure on FS yesterday was TPP, me, Marquis, tictac, and podo.

Marquis and I unvoted.

Podo is the only one who was also giving a lot of pressure on FS in mid day 1. Other names that showed up a lot in the VCs were Ogre, Axel, Snarky.

[pistachi0n]

Cant believe mirhawk wagon is a thingggg

So propose your alternative?

[pistachi0n]

I could actually see a Mirhawk/TPP scumteam--TPP was a big driver of getting the wagon off Mirhawk and back on to FS.

[pistachi0n]

*sigh* Now I have to decide if Mirhawk's reaction was legitimate or not, and whether or not it overrides my concerns about his slot.

Boo.

Who doesn't pay attention to how many votes are on them? I don't buy it that Mirhawk thought he was getting lynched.

[pistachi0n]

Can everybody who's claimed results for night actions do so again? I'm trying to remember what we found out but it's been a while and there's over 200 pages.

[pistachi0n]

ugh so I was trying to get a reaction but I only got reactions from people that aren't flubber. Flubber just straight up ignored me. =_=

That's still a reaction. What does it tell you?

[pistachi0n]

@flubber

That's a dumb reason Nugs. If we were talking about another player I don't think you would be able to convince me that it was more likely that I made a PT mistake over me just not remembering exactly what Piper said fifty pages ago.

I'd also like to hear from more people as to why the case I laid out on Piper yesterday is less than compelling. Assume I'm not scum for a moment, why don't you agree with it?

Simple--I didn't think the things you thought were scummy were actually scummy. TPP was vague, not a liar. I read it as town trying not to spill the beans. If you link me to a specific post you made then I can give you a more specific answer.

[pistachi0n]

unvote

This feels town for mir. Not liking tgr L-1 anymore

Why the unvote? You've never seen scum be defensive?

[pistachi0n]

Ok, so you've given us lots of numbers and interactions, and I'm looking forward to seeing more words in the morning. Ar you considering interactions initiated by the other people whose alignments we don't know, or things they said about our confirmed scum flips independent of interactions?

[pistachi0n]

I find associatives a vague and frustrating way to look for scum in general. I'm always terrified of leaving them when I'm scum, and I have a ton of difficulty finding them when I'm town. And that's before things happen to muddy the water like scum purposely screwing with associatives.

How else are you supposed to find scum, then? What do you think is the most reliable tell? It's always easier for me to find scum when there's been a flip or two. The game is about interactions.

[pistachi0n]

I'm kinda bored by the Mirhawk fuckery.
Just mislynch his ass and move on.

This is scummy

[pistachi0n]

its really not pistach

I think it's town upset over the bull shit

Do you really think dram cares enough to be upset?

He really believes Mirhawk is town, but he's sitting back and doing nothing.

[pistachi0n]

Actually, I don't want to lynch Mirhawk. He seemed genuinely suspicious of Skybird reading through his iso.

VOTE: SirCakez

[pistachi0n]

Cakez interactions with the two scumflips look more bussy than Mirhawk's to me.

But if we have to lynch between "those two," I'd go with Mirhawk.

[pistachi0n]

Okay, so I'm looking through TPP's iso, and their first few posts that address Skybird have the tone of "this isn't ideal play but I'm not going to say anything too damning." TPP is asking Skybird to elaborate on reads--but the kind of thing I'm talking about is in 987. They finally voted Skybird in 2877 and focused a lot on Skybird until her eventual lynch.

And searching through the rest of her iso, there are few mentions of Axelrod, but when there is, it's weak suspicion/scumreading. I don't see TPP ever being keen on Axelrod.

So I don't think it's likely TPP is scum, I don't like the pushes on TPP.

[pistachi0n]

This makes no sense. You think TPP's interactions with Sky and Axel were bad, but you don't think they are scum?

I didn't say they were bad. I was thinking their interaction with Skybird at the very beginning of the game was bad. But after seeing how dedicated they were to getting Skybird lynched before bashing Skybird was cool, I thought it was unlikely they were scum. Also, the general feel I get from that spot (especially Plot) is that they'd devote a lot of time to publicly interacting with their scumbuddy.

[pistachi0n]

This makes no sense. You think TPP's interactions with Sky and Axel were bad, but you don't think they are scum?

I didn't say they were bad. I was thinking their interaction with Skybird at the very beginning of the game was bad. But after seeing how dedicated they were to getting Skybird lynched before bashing Skybird was cool, I thought it was unlikely they were scum. Also, the general feel I get from that spot (especially Plot) is that they'd devote a lot of time to publicly interacting with their scumbuddy.

Do you feel the same way about Mirhawks early suspicion of skybird? Is that why you're no longer voting for him, or is there some other reason?

Yes, but I'm still more suspicious of Mirhawk than I am of TPP.

[pistachi0n]

So I played a game once with Dwlee where I was town, and basically all he did in that game was post "lynch pistachi0n lynch pistachi0n lynch pistachi0n"

this is pretty similar, I don't think it's scum

[pistachi0n]

tbh sircakez l will probably just find the one from yesterday and post it if you force me to.case. I dont case often.

If you don't case, then why should anybody listen to you?

[pistachi0n]

Because I'm expecting a scum flip from you but I'm less certain on TPP.

So you think one is scum? Why have you ruled out TvT and bussing?

[pistachi0n]

tbh sircakez l will probably just find the one from yesterday and post it if you force me to.case. I dont case often.

If you don't case, then why should anybody listen to you?

I'm gonna get to it eventually. shhh

ok, as long as you understand that spamming "vote TPP" isn't going to convince anyone who isn't already voting TPP.

[pistachi0n]

Pistachion, how do you feel about podoboq and itlepip?

I've liked podo since the beginning. I don't think it's likely that itl is scum either, looking back through his interactions with the two scum flips.

[pistachi0n]

I have so much doubts about tpp now. I literally based my entire read on them off flawed logic wjxbejxjen

This reads like you're bad scum who knows town is about to get lynched.

VOTE: dwlee

i'm willing to vote TPP if I wake up tomorrow morning and nobody's been lynched yet

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: shotty

Anyway, I think there's a good chance it could be LYLO and we should mass claim today. You all know I'm an innocent child miller--Roxie Hart from Chicago.

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: shotty

Anyway, I think there's a good chance it could be LYLO and we should mass claim today. You all know I'm an innocent child miller--Roxie Hart from Chicago.

Pistachion....there's 12 alive and 3 dead scum. Lylo seems implausible. Mass claiming isn't the worst idea, but I'm not sure it's necessary in the relatively strong position town is in from my point of view.

Ok. I'm trying to think of what the lack of a night could mean. Are there powers that can make there not be a night?

Anyway, sorry. That was dumb. Yeah, the numbers don't add up.

I am wondering if the lack of night could also mean we got all the scum, but have to root out a third party--is there precedent for that? People who have played games where they randomly didn't have a night, was that usually scum or town forces at play?

[pistachi0n]

Anyway, I want to lynch shotty because he mostly ignored Dwlee (except light defense in a few interactions) and he doesn't have any points in his favor.

[pistachi0n]

Did you forget pist isnt reading already?

Now I am.

Anyway, I want to lynch shotty because he mostly ignored Dwlee (except light defense in a few interactions) and he doesn't have any points in his favor.

But...he replaced TO/talah, who was like the towniest person here.

Ok, so we have

TPP--probably town because of the Dwlee flip
Cakez--??
Mirhawk--??
dramonic--??
Marquis--town because of cop claim
Flubber--??
Cerb--??
Mala--confirmed town by Marquis
itlpip-??
me--no
shotty--supposedly the towniest slot according to Cerb, but there are good fakers--TO did the thing where he said he had a result that said I wasn't a miller, and his interactions with the Dwlee slot seem town reading through TO's iso again--ok, we can hold offon this because of his legacy--why the TPP vote though????
podo--??

VOTE: flubbernugget, a good POE vote

[pistachi0n]

This game is gonna be a loss~

why hasn't the dwlee flip changed your view of TPP at all?

[pistachi0n]

is dram like this when he's scum?

[pistachi0n]

This game is gonna be a loss~

why hasn't the dwlee flip changed your view of TPP at all?

I've given my opinion on the dwlee flip, read the fucking game.

I see you think dwlee was bussing, what makes you think that was bussing?

[pistachi0n]

There was zero town incentive to unvote TPP after that awful claim. Dwlee was obviously bussing.

Read
The
Fucking
Game

You read the fucking game, I asked for more explanation.

[pistachi0n]

I want to vote dramonic now, he's doing a great job and hitting all the "scum wouldn't be stupid enough to do that" marks.

VOTE: dramonic

He didn't acknowledge Skybird at all, his iso has 6 instances of the word "skybird" and 3 of them are after she was lynched. None of the 3 from when she was in the game are direct interactions or reads.

Skybird didn't address dramonic either except for one townread. She also barely addressed Dwlee/Sakura and Axelrod.

[pistachi0n]

Dramonic also didn't interact with Axelrod much. There was one vote in him in the very early game. After that, dramonic argued with him a little bit but never voted him again. It looks like distancing.

Axelrod scumread dram--he also scumread the Dwlee slot and Skybird--so it makes me wonder if he was bussing all his buddies.

[pistachi0n]

I think Podo and dram should both claim.

I agree.

[pistachi0n]

You think TPP is town.
You've been pretty wrong this game.

If you're town, then you're being incredibly short-sighted and a sore loser. Consider a universe where TPP is town. Unless you have an investigative result, you're full of shit. And if you do know for a fact that TPP is scum, fucking claim already.

[pistachi0n]

So the consensus is that town is in a good position--we could potentially break the game by picking off people one by one in the lynches since we have 3 (basically) confirmed town.

I would prefer dram today, will hammer podo if he gets to l-1

[pistachi0n]

Glad to see you've returned to the side of goodness and reason.

@Shotty: Do you remember why you decided to investigate Mirhawk?

let's vig mir regardless.

I think I'm OK with this for the most part, but there are some things I definitely want to figure out before we set up the vig for the night.

First and foremost: If Dram flips scum, and the game doesn't immediately end, we either have five scum or a serial killer. Which of the two is more likely?

5 scum works with the number of players and the nights with two kills looked more like vig shots. An SK isn't out of the question but I don't think it's likely.

[pistachi0n]

(I'd also like to note that I'm pretty confident who I think the SK/Vig is, and I think they're SK.)
(In case I'm wrong, I'm not going to say who, or call for their lynch right now.)

What makes you think SK as opposed to vig? Should that change our approach?

[pistachi0n]

So my ideal lynch order would be dram > podo > cakez > mirhawk

[pistachi0n]

when I took over I was told this

Night 1: Investigate pistachi0n; no result.
Night 2: Investigate Axelrod; no result.
Night 3: Investigate Marquis; still pending.

I'm sorry my memory is bad sometimes(not often), I did change my investigation to mirhawk

I believe this, it matches up with what Ogre said.

I don't think Ogre ever intended to check me as he's the one who told me to claim.

Wait, how can a result be still pending?

[pistachi0n]

This is all speculation, but I think it's worth noting. If we lynch the last scum, I think we need to steal control of the vig's night action. Tell them "Shoot this player (or nobody) or when you claim, we will lynch you." That way, in case that player actually is the SK, they have to just obey town. The person in charge of the final decision could be pistachion, since she's confirmed town.

This sounds good in theory, but I'm not sure if it'll actually work.

If there's no kill then we're left wondering why the game hasn't ended. I guess we would know at that point that there isn't a SK, but rather a scum. But in all honesty that doesn't buy us much and I don't see them not killing just for that.

If there is a kill then we have no way of knowing who made it. It could have been either the scum OR the SK. We won't know which, and if we do have a SK they could still at that point just claim to be a vig and say they didn't do it.

Does that really change who we lynch? Town has enough of a lead and we have enough conftown.

[pistachi0n]

I was hoping we could autowin, but I guess not.

Why not?

[pistachi0n]

I think we have an SK now

pretty sure a town vig would have claimed.

[pistachi0n]

I still feel like TPP is a very likely SK.

Why's that? Why TPP as SK?

[pistachi0n]

With TPP's analysis, dram and podo are still the best votes for today (by POE.)

If there really is a vig who doesn't want to claim, why is a vig shot bad? Best case scenario, scum gets shot, worst case, it helps with POE.

[pistachi0n]

With TPP's analysis, dram and podo are still the best votes for today (by POE.)

If there really is a vig who doesn't want to claim, why is a vig shot bad? Best case scenario, scum gets shot, worst case, it helps with POE.

Is my analysis flawed pistachion, with regards to the likely existence of a town aligned jailkeeper as the explanation for shotty's repeated power failures?

I think it's more likely to be a scum jailkeeper--everyone is desperate for information, so why no claim?

[pistachi0n]

Why would a town Jailkeeper jail TO night 1 and 2?

Because he was obvtown as fuck and a likely nk target?

I'm still more concerned about the lack of a claim--it means they have something to hide at this point.

[pistachi0n]

Pistachion thought conftown waa a ghost

?

[pistachi0n]

Anyway, TO being widely townread could go either way--you can argue that he got JK'd because a town JK thought he'd be targeted, or you can argue that he got JK'd because scum thought he was a town PR. I think scum JK is more likely.

[pistachi0n]

I agree the vig should claim, and I wonder if scum is trying to stall again.

[pistachi0n]

I agree the vig should claim, and I wonder if scum is trying to stall again.

Resetting my timer

Just sayin

Yes, also Cerberus "I don't care about this game lol" v666.

[pistachi0n]

? I just told you guys there's scum within a very small pool. *shrug* You should lynch in that pool.

That's what I'm trying to do.

[pistachi0n]

I think it's you, podo, Cakez, Mirhawk, and Cerb.

[pistachi0n]

Why do you assume those 5?

Process of elimination, like I keep saying.

[pistachi0n]

Why do you assume those 5?

Process of elimination, like I keep saying.

Your PoE is apparently removing TPP, Flubber, Shotty and Itle, even though the only evidence we have among those four is non-indicative action evidence from Flubber and Shotty.
I'd be super skeptical but you're an IC so... I guess I'll have to just :sadface:

No, I'm removing marquis, Mala, the TPP slot because of interactions with Dwlee, and the shotty slot because of TO's actions. Not flubber and itl, actually. Anyway, it's possible TPP and shotty are scum, but not nearly as likely as you or podo.

[pistachi0n]

So where are Itle and Flubber since they're apparently missing but not PoEd?

They're not PoE'd. I'd still rather today's lynch be within the 4.

[pistachi0n]

Idk if I said this earlier but I wouldn't try to fake being Vig with my NKs as SK
This doesn't really matter anyway because my role claim will basically conftown me anyway

This is stalling, and anti town.

[pistachi0n]

hi guys, let's lynch someone soon k?

What's with the rush? We have almost four days. I'd like to use that time to get some information into the game.

nobody's willing to give information

so let's lynch dramonic

[pistachi0n]

You're right that SK!me wouldn't know who to buddy up with, which would explain why I buddied a bit with Axel and why I've buddied with Cakez (sorry bro, pretty confident about this one.) But is there actually a world in which I'm the SK here? The whole reason we're talking about it is because I brought up the possibility of it.

Saying things along the line of "I wouldn't do this if I were the SK/I wouldn't know what to do if I were the SK" is useless unless you've been SK enough for us to look through your meta.

[pistachi0n]

So, let's choose someone for Podo to kill tonight, and if they aren't NK'd we lynch Podo tomorrow?

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: mirhawk

[pistachi0n]

After all the pushing TPP Mirhawk did, pistachion?

And all the bussing TPP did on Dwlee?

[pistachi0n]

Sorry, I meant to say the bussing Dwlee did on TPP.

[pistachi0n]

Looking through true Ogre's iso my only real concern is that he was an early proponent of the FS wagon, which we saw scum played to their advantage.

My dramonic vote is from poe as of right now

So how can we rule out Marquis as scum but not TO?

[pistachi0n]

Did SirCakez do anything other than know your flavor?

[pistachi0n]

Mir why does a super "weak" sk make sense in a large when they're already extremely unlikely to win as is?

I guess it's not, but I keep thinking that Cerb is obviously Mr. Hyde without Dr. Jekell to keep him in check and that just screams SK to me.

But that doesn't make sense because Cakez flipped town.

[pistachi0n]

It's still possible flubber is town. If a scum gets meighborized, it still benefits them to play along in the main thread.

[pistachi0n]

Itle

[pistachi0n]

What I meant to say in my last post is

VOTE: itle

[pistachi0n]

I'm the back up role, in this case, the wig vendor -.-

How have you been picking who to send wigs to?

[pistachi0n]

I'm not worried about Cerb, next night he has a kill we can leash him if we're worried.

[pistachi0n]

Yeah, I don't really think Cerb is the SK but we should cover bases.

[pistachi0n]

Cerb has said that he cannot shoot anymore period.

Yeah. So if there are multiple nightkills, or no nightkills but the game still isn't over, we know to lynch Cerb.

[pistachi0n]

I don't think mirhawk is scum any more and it makes me think less of pip.

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: flubber

[pistachi0n]

Plotinus/TPP--I see from the dead thread that you said I know tictac offsite. What name do I know tictac by?

[pistachi0n]

That was modrony, right?